Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 299. Enneagram for Nonprofits: Pt.1 The Nine Types - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE and Ashley Engle

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299. Enneagram for Nonprofits: Pt.1 The Nine Types - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE and Ashley Engle · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:00
  Jonathan McCoy: Today's episode is sponsored by our friends at Feathr. Feathr helps nonprofits of all shapes and sizes build powerful campaigns that help you reach new fans and find new donors, wherever and whenever they're online. We love them because their tech makes creating and optimizing your paid ads strategy. Super simple.
• 0:14
  Jonathan McCoy: And no, yeah, they just happen to be amazing humans too Sound like better might be a fit for your organization? Learn more today feathr.co. That's feather without the last e dot co or follow the link in our show notes.
• 0:31
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, I'm Jon.
• 0:32
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:33
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
• 0:36
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:45
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:53
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community, we're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 1:04
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Becky, we got your like best friend in the house.
• 1:09
  Becky Endicott: My best friend is literally here, my dimples are all lit up. Because I'm so excited. We have been teasing Enneagram for four seasons now.
• 1:16
  Becky Endicott: And you know that we can't just have one conversation and encapsulate it all. But today, we're really going to be diving into the different types, we want you to understand the nuance and the history behind each of the types and start thinking about which one sounds like you. And as you do, you're going to start hearing different types. And you're going to be thinking, oh, that's somebody important in my life. And now I'm coming to understand them more. So dive in today, let's get our feet wet. And just with understanding and embracing what this is, and then we're going to bring Part Two back. And we're going to correlate that between what we've learned about the Enneagram, and how that relates to relationships, and how do we activate what we know about the Enneagram to build more nurturing relationships, not only in our professional lives, but I think also in our personal lives, too. And I know everybody out there listening is saying, we have done 1000 personality analysis throughout our career, what makes the Enneagram so special. And I'm just going to tell you to hold on to your butts, because we're about to show you why the Enneagram is transformational. So let me give you a little bit of background about Ashley. She is the pastor of spiritual formation at the Well Church Edmond. She is so passionate about justice, local missions, and helping people feel seen and loved. And she's been a student of the Enneagram for about five years, and believes it just to be this really helpful relational tool, not only in her ministry, and family and friendships, but something that's applicable to all of us wherever we are. And she just thinks that self awareness and grace are so needed in the sort of fractured cultural movement. And the Enneagram was one of those tools that's going to help us move through it with joy, with intentionality. And with understanding, sort of a servant leader heart for understanding the other person. So hi, bestie.
• 3:11
  Ashley Engle: Hello. I feel like after that, that's that's all we need. Bye, everybody. That was great. All I came here for.
• 3:17
  Becky Endicott: Thank you for your time.
• 3:18
  Ashley Engle: A really kind and thoughtful introduction. So bye, I'm out.
• 3:23
  Becky Endicott: Well tell us a little bit about yourself and tell us how you kind of fell into the Enneagram work because you have been like my decade long Enneagram coach, and you have been fascinated by it.
• 3:32
  Becky Endicott: Please tell us about this
• 3:35
  Ashley Engle: For sure. So I first of all, it probably feels journey.
• 3:38
  Ashley Engle: like a decade because I talk about the Enneagram constantly.
• 3:42
  Ashley Engle: So you're like enough already. I first became aware of it about five years ago, when I was in ministry and I started becoming aware that a lot of people were using it in a faith context. And so I started digging into all the resources, I took an assessment, started reading about the types and it became pretty clear to me what my type was pretty quickly. And so I started using it in my ministry, in my personal life, and my family. And it's kind of mysterious how the Enneagram originated. But a lot of the really prominent teachers believe that it has its roots in sort of a Judeo Christian faith tradition, that maybe Kabbalah the ancient mystical sect of Judaism is kind of where it has its roots. But if we look back through history, we can see the Enneagram sort of adopted and written about and used by people like the Desert Fathers and mothers, the people in the Catholic Church who would separate themselves and go live in the desert and have these really like ascetic lifestyles, and then we see it kind of adopted by monastic communities and in the middle of Middle Ages. And this is fascinating, and we'll talk about this when we talk about the nine types But it became each type became associated with one of the seven deadly sins from Dante's Divine Comedy. And so that's fascinating. And then over the years, it has sort of evolved.
• 5:08
  Ashley Engle: And so the Enneagram that we have today is sort of a marriage of these ancient faith contexts, like sources of wisdom, married with modern psychology. So it's kind of a cool thing to go back and review the history and realize that it is a little mysterious. I mean, a lot of the teachers, Father Richard Rohr, who's a really prominent Enneagram teacher and guide says, I don't I don't know why the Enneagram is true, but it is. And so I don't know, just interesting to see how it's been used throughout the centuries.
• 5:44
  Becky Endicott: I think the thing that I love so much about the Enneagram, that that, to me is different than all the other tests that I've taken is, it allows me to see my blind spots and my weaknesses. And, and I don't even feel like it's not in a punitive way. But it is very much like a self awareness tool.
• 6:04
  Becky Endicott: That again, I love your point about the psychology of it. And the way to give us triggers to help us feel well and you know, as an Enneagram two, I understand that, my personality is going to try to avoid pain, at all costs, I want to cover the people around me and make sure that they never feel any pain. But that's going to lead to some other challenges. And so I gotta quit talking about our types, because we got to go through them. And I want you to walk us through the nine types.
• 6:32
  Becky Endicott: And I think it'll be interesting for our listeners, don't worry, we're gonna have a free test where you can go take it. And we definitely want to know what your Enneagram type is later on.
• 6:41
  Becky Endicott: But I want you to just kind of listen as Ashley unpacks these and think about where you think you land. And then we want to know where you actually land because I think it could be fascinating. So start us off.
• 6:52
  Ashley Engle: So as we get into the nine types of the Enneagram.
• 6:55
  Ashley Engle: And we give a little bit of information. Again, this will be just such a broad overview because there's so much here.
• 7:02
  Ashley Engle: But as we get into this, I want to say right out of the gate that I as a student of the Enneagram have had done a lot of work around this. But there are so many gifted teachers and guides out there and so many fantastic resources and so I want to cite them right out of the gate. A lot of the descriptors and adjectives that I'll use in my descriptions come
• 7:21
  Becky Endicott: Yup, and that is gross.
• 7:23
  Becky Endicott: from this book by reso, and Hudson personality types. They are some of the preeminent scholars and teachers of Intagram. Also Father Richard Rohr, big one. And we'll put all of these in the show notes, I've always wanted to say that shownotes, then we have The Sacred Enneagram by Chris Heuertz, it's amazing, and The Road Back to You. So as we get into these, a lot of these descriptors that I use come straight from these sources. And so I just want to give, give those amazing teachers that credit where credit is due, I also want to be very clear as I go through this, that no Enneagram type is any better than any other. And that's part of the beauty of this, too, is that we see through the Enneagram that all of us when we are our best selves bring something beautiful and essential to humanity, and what better gift can we bring to humanity than our best selves.
• 8:16
  Becky Endicott: And so I want to make that really clear, because there may be some things in here I'll talk about some of the strengths of the types and some of the weaknesses, and be so careful not to judge because truly, there is no type that's any better than any other. So I also want to let you know that if you do choose to take an Enneagram assessment, I encourage you to do that. You may not find your type from the assessment, they can point you in the right direction, maybe I would, I would recommend maybe taking your top two or three depending on where your scores fall and investigating those types. And what I mean by that is finding a source, a website, a book, something and read, that's the best way to discover is just to read the types, feel what resonates with you. And it's likely that the type description that you read that makes you feel the most uncomfortable, or the most exposed is your type.
• 9:12
  Ashley Engle: It's gross. I remember reading my type thinking how does someone know that now I don't even know that about myself, ew. I also want to let you know that your type cannot change Enneagram types.
• 9:23
  Ashley Engle: Teachers of the Enneagram say that Enneagram types are sort of attached to people as they sustain wounds in childhood. And this statement can be misleading and it can sound really dramatic. But even if you had an amazing childhood, your your caregivers do not have the ability to love you perfectly.
• 9:42
  Ashley Engle: And so you can kind of dig a little deeper and think like how, how did this type become assigned to me? How did I sort of take on these motivations?
• 9:54
  Ashley Engle: Okay, So I'm going to go through these types using what are called the three triads or centers of intelligence. All right. So the first one is called the heart or feeling triad. And this is going to be types two, three, and four. And these are types which are located in the heart center. And that means that they are guided, first and foremost, by their emotions by their feelings. And so that's the lens through which they view the world. It's the lens through which they make decisions. So that's two, three, and four. So we're going to start with type two. And this type is called the helper or the befriender. And I love the title, the befriender. For this one, the Type Two is warm, caring, and giving. They're motivated by a need to be loved, liked and needed, and to avoid acknowledging their own needs.
• 10:46
  Ashley Engle: Their primary need is the need to be needed. The magic words for two words that will make us drop absolutely everything I'm apt to as well just gave it away are the words I need you. A lot of times we'll drop everything if we hear those words. But twos are open hearted, they're giving. They're generous and gracious. They're often described as people who will stand beside people who are going through a difficult time, they give freely of their time and resources. For other people, they work tirelessly to help improve other situations. They are great listeners and afirmers. And they're good at remembering and appreciating the stories of others. So Riso and Hudson , who are great Enneagram teachers say that twos impart a measure of acceptance, and appreciation that can help others see their own value. They are highly empathetic. And it said that this is the superpower of the two twos can walk into a room and immediately take the emotional temperature of a room and it's a gift. But that's part of the work of a two is to determine what is ours to care about. Right? We can care. But what is ours to actually engage with? What can we do in that moment? All of this attune to other people's feelings is a beautiful thing, as I say, but it means that we have a difficult time sometimes accessing our own feelings. We feel guilty about burdening other people with our feelings and our issues. Because we're afraid that if we do, we will face rejection, which is the two's biggest fear, right to be unloved and unwanted. And so because of our denial of self, we can be prone to burnout. And, Becky, I know that you talked about this during your mental health series and friend, Bravo for that, also, and I'll get through this quickly. But unhealthy twos can tend to be manipulative on the surface, they seem altruistic and very giving. But sometimes twos will give to get right if our primary motivation is to be loved and needed, we will do for others because we want the same in return. And so that again, is part of the work of the two is to keep that in check. And that's where our deadly sin comes in the deadly sin from Dante's Divine Comedy. Ours is pride, which at first seems counterintuitive, like twos are sweet and even keel. But it's the pride of feeling as though I know what you need more than you know what you need. Yeah. And that's not great. But again, at their best twos bring lots of love and warmth and high levels of empathy, help and personalized care to the world.
• 13:31
  Ashley Engle: And I'm so grateful for twos and I'm grateful to be a two. Okay, so the next one in the heart triad three, the achiever the performer or the motivator, right is the number three. So three is are success oriented image conscious and wired for productivity. They are motivated by a need to appear to be successful, or to be successful and to avoid failure. And so to emphasize the core need of the three it is the need to succeed.
• 14:00
  Ashley Engle: They're efficient, competent, goal oriented and productive.
• 14:04
  Ashley Engle: They're excellent leaders. They love inspiring others and helping others achieve their goals and improve themselves.
• 14:11
  Ashley Engle: And threes make incredible mentors. My dad is a three and I see this he absolutely lives for the days when people seek him out for his wisdom, when he can help them come compile like a speech or in my case, a sermon.
• 14:23
  Ashley Engle: He lives for that loves to help people improve and be their best selves, which is a gift. Three's love to make great first impressions. They can adapt to any situation and like the two they have a sort of social thermometer. They can walk into a room and see what's needed.
• 14:43
  Ashley Engle: But unlike the two who is always asking like Do you like me? Does everybody like me? The three is asking, Am I Am I successful? Am I coming across in this moment?
• 14:52
  Ashley Engle: So threes are competitive sometimes to a fault. They love to win. And they like other people to know about their accomplishments. They get their life energy from their successes, and they love praise and accolades, they love to get a trophy they have and this is another gift that they bring, they have seemingly endless amounts of energy. My boss, my pastor, my friend, is this way, I am so amazed by her energy, it is unreal. And I'm jealous, because she makes everything look so easy. But because so much of the worth of a three is tied up in their achievement, they can be prone to workaholism, if they're not careful. And as I mentioned before, threes have this ability to be who they need to be in any given situation. And so a lot of times they have the most trouble of any type, perceiving their own feelings. They are mask wearers. I've heard them called mask wearers, and I and again, this is just being who they need to be in every situation. And this is where the deadly sin of the three comes in. It is deceit. And this was one that was added later, in modern, more modern era after the the Middle Ages. So yeah, it's deceit that mask wearing and this practice can lead them to disconnect from who they really are. So that's part of the work of the three is staying in tune with who they really are. But again, at their best threes are adaptable.
• 16:23
  Ashley Engle: They're inspiring. They're ambitious, energetic, high achieving and motivated, and I am so grateful for threes. Okay, so the four, the four is the last type in the heart triad, they are the romantic or the individualist, their core need is the need to be special, they need to be unique. They're creative, they're sensitive, they can be a little moody, this is not always a bad thing.
• 16:47
  Ashley Engle: They're motivated by a need to be understood, experienced their oversized feelings and avoid being ordinary. I've heard it said that fours are the rarest Enneagram type. I don't know if that's true. But fours would love to believe that that's true, because I'm surrounded by a lot of fours, which is incredible, because they encouraged me to see the beauty around me. But these have been some of the most difficult people to help type.
• 17:19
  Ashley Engle: And it's because they can be pretty resistant to the Enneagram to being typed because they value uniqueness and they value being special. So fours are intuitive, expressive, they're creative, they seek beauty and harmony in their surroundings, and they're constantly looking for deeper meanings behind things. I heard a really beautiful thing about fours recently, fours are the only type on the Enneagram who can sit with pain and not feel the need to fix it. And isn't that a superpower. So like me as a two if I sit with someone who's grieving, I want to try to fix I want to try to soothe and help but a four can sit in the pain. And isn't that just a gift for people who are grieving My goodness, you know, so for the romantic love melancholy, that sweet sadness, they love to sit in their feelings and they swim in a deep pool of feelings all the time. And their feelings are what fuel their creative endeavors. And they're almost always artistically gifted in some way. And like I say they despise anything ordinary. They love the unconventional, the dramatic and the refined. For example, if I've seen this happen with four friends, if they like an obscure musician, and then other people start liking the musician, they will turn it off and never listen again.
• 18:44
  Jonathan McCoy: As being married to a four I can affirm this.
• 18:47
  Becky Endicott: I forgot Candice was a four.
• 18:49
  Ashley Engle: Fours believe and this is kind of where we get into the to the shadow side was called the shadow side of the four but they believe that there is something lacking in them.
• 19:00
  Ashley Engle: That is sort of this deep seated feeling that they carry. And this is where their deadly sin comes into play. And for the for its envy. They have a tendency to look at other people and wonder how other people can have it together or how other people can be better at something or have something that a four wants. And this is where that deadly sin comes in. And where the work of a four comes in.
• 19:23
  Ashley Engle: They feel misunderstood a lot of the time as well force and they get frustrated by this. And that's something important to remember about fours too. But at their best fours are highly creative. They are authentic and deep feelers, they bring so much beauty to the world and they encourage other people to see the beauty and I'm so grateful for force. And there it is.
• 19:46
  Becky Endicott: Okay, we're moving out of the heart triad.
• 19:49
  Becky Endicott: Now, tell us what the next triad is and what those three are.
• 19:55
  Ashley Engle: head triad is going to view perceive the world through their thoughts, right?
• 20:03
  Ashley Engle: These are people who are going to think before they act. Okay, so the first type in the head triad is the five, and this is the investigator or the observer. And the primary need for a five is to perceive. So fives are analytical, they're detached, typically private, they're motivated by a need to gain knowledge, conserve energy, and to avoid relying on others.
• 20:36
  Ashley Engle: And perceptive is such a great word to describe fives, they are observers, they are always watching. And if you have fives in your life, you will notice this about them. And I've become really aware of this with fives in my life lately. You can always see their eyes, right, you can always see them taking in their surroundings. And it's something you can note visually, but they pay close attention to others into their surroundings, because all of their energy is concentrated on taking in information and seeing everything this is so important to them. So they love to discover new ideas through research. They are objective, questioning, and interested in exploring things in detail, they value thoughts over feelings, and a lot of times they will need time to process their experiences and to evaluate their emotions. I've heard it said that fives have a very limited amount of energy each day. So when they hit the wall, they hit the wall, it is time to call it a day. And they work really hard to conserve their energy for that reason. So fives one of their other things is they do not like to be uninformed, they are a Masters of knowledge. And they they love to feel competent, all of their energy is concentrated, as I said, on taking in information.
• 21:57
  Ashley Engle: And so in an unhealthy state, we can identify five's deadly sin.
• 22:01
  Ashley Engle: And that is the sin of avarice, or greed. So fives at their core tend to feel this deep emptiness, they longed for fulfillment. And so this can take shape and greed for information that at their best fives are contemplatively, gifted, they are able to grasp big pictures, big concepts, they have powerful inner lives, and they're deep, deep thinkers. And I'm so grateful for fives.
• 22:34
  Becky Endicott: Eyes just have to pause right here and say something about all of this, because as you unpack this, and as I have, you know, some knowledge of the Ennegram, but not to your level, as you're talking, I see the people in my life that are those types. And I think it frames them in such a compassionate way. And I hope people who are listening right now feel this as well, I could think of staff members, like I think about a staff member who could be a five, the fact that they want to be informed, would say something to a leader about the way you need to communicate with that individual, because that is a value system. And so I think that this tool, could be one of the most powerful tools as we're working through relationships in this business.
• 23:52
  Becky Endicott: And I mean, we have a ton of nonprofits in here, we have social impact entrepreneurs and marketers. And it's like, wherever you are in the world, whoever you're working with, because we're working with some of the toughest and most systemic problems in the world, understanding someone's type is going to give two things, it's going to give you grace. And it's going to give you perspective about someone and I think that all of that is going to lead to empathy. So I just had to pause right there.
• 24:22
  Becky Endicott: Because this is not just your basic personality analysis. This is how you move through life intentionally loving the people around you for exactly who they are and the gifts that they can bring. And we figure out ways to amplify them. And when it's not a good time, you figure out how to support them when they need that support. So thank you, Ashley, for teaching me all of that.
• 24:43
  Jonathan McCoy: I just keep thinking too. This is why communication is just so complicated, because we're each wired, while we have similarities at the surface, our motivations, our biggest fears, our drivers can be so different and the way that we need to be able to get to the table together, whether it's through a donor that we're courting, or through a friend that we're trying to work through problems with, like this is illuminating so much. So I think this is going to be so helpful as we try to tie this all together. But keep this keep going.
• 25:11
  Ashley Engle: You know a lot of corporations and organizations, nonprofits and otherwise use this tool I've heard of companies even putting on the nameplate outside people's doors, their number so that people know as they walk into that office, what is this person's motivation? How can I have compassion for this person?
• 25:28
  Ashley Engle: How can I appreciate what makes them unique and appreciate the unique gifts and abilities they bring to this organization and to humanity. So I have seen it be so impactful, so effective in my ministry, in my work, in my home, and my friendships, and my family. So yes, it is it is such a tool for cultivating empathy, I cannot emphasize that enough.
• 25:55
  Ashley Engle: Okay, so we're onto the sixth, the loyalist, all right, so sixes are committed practical and witty, they are worst case scenario thinkers who are motivated by the need for security. So their core need is that need for security. They are loyal friends and committed partners. They are excellent members of a team. They have a quick wit and can be incredibly charming. And they value order and structure. So as the six is located in the head triad, the thinking center of intelligence, their analytical, and as I say, sometimes they're called worst case scenario thinkers. And I've heard this from my six friends and from other sixes that I've heard on podcasts, and I've read about sixes are the kind of people who will sit down in a restaurant, and who will face the door, they will take the seat facing the door, and before you have placed your order, they have charted all the exits, and they have formulated a plan in case things go south during the meal, you know, and this kind of forward thinking this kind of troubleshooting can be so essential to an organization, right, they can be the devil's advocate, right? Like, they'll think about different scenarios that can play out, even if they're unlikely, just in case, they're big prepares, I think I might be raising a six. And they think of everything, like he'll pack everything he could ever need in his backpack to like, take a bike ride up the street, you know, just in case, right?
• 27:27
  Ashley Engle: These are sixes. So they think through the implications of decisions. They're highly skeptical, and so sometimes they can struggle to trust other people. But once you prove yourself to a six, they are incredibly, incredibly loyal.
• 27:40
  Ashley Engle: Sixes are prone to self doubt, which is why they are big consultors, they often consult friends and trusted advisors when they need advice. I've often heard this called the inner committee, right? We're going to talk about the one in a minute, and they have what's called the inner critic, I've heard the six has what's what what they call an inner committee, and I've heard it compared to the movie Inside Out All of these differing voices and perspectives in their own mind. But a lot of times they externalize this and form committees on the outside too.
• 28:14
  Ashley Engle: So when they're unhealthy sixes can overthink things and kind of spiral into anxiety. This is where we see the deadly sin of the six, which is fear. This is one of the others that was added later, they can become paralyzed by their analysis in these moments, analysis paralysis. But what's amazing about sixes and I see this in my potentially sixth child is that more than any other type in a situation of danger of a crisis, they can overcome their fear faster and jump to action than any other type. And that's probably because they live with fear every day. And so it's not unfamiliar to them, which again, helps us have such great compassion on a sixth. And that's a beautiful and painful gift that they bring to the world.
• 29:03
  Jonathan McCoy: As we're unpacking this. It's like the layers of why you want to surround your team, why diversity, cognitive diversity is so important, why we should be looking at that about our boards too. So I just think it speaks to the beauty of humanity of how the voice of community is so important. And it points back to our core work. And it's about amplifying everybody because it can't just be three people because they are going to so many blind spots. So this is beautiful. Sorry to interrupt.
• 29:27
  Ashley Engle: Totally. No. And I'm so glad you brought that up.
• 29:29
  Ashley Engle: I work on a team right now in ministry and we have a one, a two, a three, a five, a seven and two eights, so and it is a so it is a thing to behold when people are living in to their gifts and their abilities and their strengths. And when when that's recognized by other people. Oh, I've never I've never been part of such a healthy work environment. And I think that's a big part of it.
• 29:54
  Ashley Engle: Right? So yeah, at their best sixes are fiercely loyal, honest and reliable. They're faithful friends, partners and members of teams, and they're committed to the common good, and I'm so grateful for sixes. So the last type in the head triad is the seven this is the enthusiast.
• 30:13
  Ashley Engle: sevens are fun, spontaneous and adventurous and they are motivated by a need to be happy to plan stimulating experiences and to avoid pain. sevens are typically the life of the party.
• 30:26
  Ashley Engle: They are enthusiastic and accomplished, uninhibited and joyful. They are magnetic at Silver Linings people And my brother is perhaps the sevenest seven who sevened and, and he can spin a situation that is terrible and make you think it's great like silver linings. And that is because of that need to avoid pain like this is great, everything's fine, right? So he is funny and sevens are so funny and they're charming. And they they are relaxed and they're into self deprecating humor, they don't take themselves too seriously. They're great to have around. And they help people see all the possibilities that life has to offer. Sevens are light and cheerful. And they can get away with a lot of things because of that. And as someone who has a seven as a baby brother, that is real. Sevens are always chasing something shiny, new experiences, fun experiences, different experiences. They're wonderful starters. But sometimes they struggle to finish, especially when things get hard. They will, you know, skirt away from pain at all costs. And they will plan each day so that they're live, so that their day has as much fun as possible and as little pain as possible, as little unpleasantness as possible. And this is this is a real thing.
• 31:48
  Ashley Engle: And they need stimulation and new experiences to keep them going. They tend to delay or or ignore unpleasant tasks. And as I say, they will avoid pain, like the plague. They'll even use experiences or substances to mask or avoid it. And this can get manic. And so this is where we see the deadly sin of the seven come into play and this is gluttony, overdoing, to sort of mask and avoid pain. But at their best sevens bring light to dark places. That is my favorite description of a seven. They're always up for a good time and a belly laugh and they remind us that life is fun. And that play is fun. And I'm so grateful for sevens. Okay, how are we doing?
• 32:36
  Becky Endicott: I've been waiting for the eight. I think this is the most misunderstood of all of the types. I happen to be married to one. And I'm so excited to understand what triad they're in because I don't know and it's going to be
• 32:49
  Ashley Engle: Healthy eights are so incredible. They fall into interesting.
• 32:52
  Ashley Engle: what's called the gut triad, or the instinctive triad. This is their center of intelligence. So they're going to perceive the world through their, their instincts, they're going to use their instincts to help them make decisions. So this is type eight, nine and one in this triad. So type eight is the challenger. They are the challenger or the leader.
• 33:18
  Ashley Engle: Sometimes you'll hear them called. They are commanding, intense, they can be confrontational, and they're motivated by a need to be strong and avoid feeling weak or vulnerable. So their core need is a need to be against. So they are strong and brave and direct.
• 33:34
  Ashley Engle: They are self confident and decisive. They are take charge kind of people and their self assuredness and reliability can bring other people really great comfort and I affirm this with the eights in my life. They make me feel like someone is in control. And that is a great feeling that brings a lot of security and healthy eights on a team. Oh man, unstoppable, tremendous leaders. So there needs to be against can sometimes be seen in their inability to conform and follow rules. Eights love a good conflict and they will seek out a conflict. Right? They will even start them sometimes that's how much they enjoy being against. Becky's like haha.
• 34:24
  Becky Endicott: I'm just seeing this play out in my life. I'm wondering if other people are too it's hilarious.
• 34:29
  Ashley Engle: Here's what is beautiful about an eight. Becky, I know you'll have something to add to your eight will fight to the death for the underdog. They will fight to the death for the underdog. They are justice warriors and they have an innate ability to see where injustice is present. And that is a super power they won't put up with unjust systems or unjust leadership they will not do it they will not stand for that.
• 34:56
  Ashley Engle: And I want to point this out we're in a minute we're going to talk about the one and the one values justice to but I saw this comparison in a book and I love it this book Personality Types.
• 35:06
  Ashley Engle: It says while ones will reform the system from the inside its will climb out of the system and then throw rocks at it.
• 35:16
  Becky Endicott: So true. So true.
• 35:18
  Ashley Engle: Such a good picture of an eight but they hate to show weakness and vulnerability and they can even struggle to apologize sometimes because they view that as a sign of weakness. Unhealthy eights can be seen as domineering, overbearing or even arrogant and this is where we see the deadly sin attached to an eight. This deadly sin is lust. And we see this played out here as a lust for power and control. But at their best, eights are passionate, they are committed to truth and they are protective of their people. And eights are risk takers and pillars of strength for so many and I am so grateful for eights.
• 35:56
  Becky Endicott: I am too. My husband, Kyle, such he's such a good man. And when I think about I shared this in my mental health crisis, like when I was at the bottom, completely at the bottom of my lowest point in that situation, I mean, we had a really profound moment and I share it in the podcast. But he literally took every single one of his value systems and threw it out the window and did the hyperfocus right on me. And I've never seen him do that before.
• 36:24
  Becky Endicott: And it is so illustrative of what you're saying here. I remember he had a trial, which if anybody knows how hard it is to like, get a trial canceled and get it back on the books. He had it the morning that I had my lowest panic attack canceled it, it was like no big deal, washed it away. And I just think that that level of protection that eights get can be such a superpower for organizations, if you cannot type cast them into this role of they're going to be challenging, they're going to be difficult because actually, they could be the protectors I think that could save us from crises.
• 37:03
  Becky Endicott: So love my eights.
• 37:05
  Ashley Engle: All right, so nine the peacemaker.
• 37:09
  Becky Endicott: Jon, we've been waiting for it.
• 37:11
  Jonathan McCoy: Thank you, I'm feeling seen already. Feeling seen already.
• 37:14
  Ashley Engle: Alright, so nines are pleasant. They are laid back and accommodating, they're motivated by a need to keep the peace merged with others and avoid conflict. The core need of the nine is to avoid and we'll see that played out in different ways. But nines are peaceful, they are reassuring, accepting, inclusive and comforting. My mom is a nine and the most beautiful thing anyone's ever said about her was when your mom's around I just feel like everything's gonna be okay. And that's true.
• 37:45
  Ashley Engle: And that is such a gift, just that presence that brings so much peace. Nines are awesome.
• 37:48
  Ashley Engle: So nines have the ability to make people feel understood and accepted. They have the ability to see things from all sides, and they make fantastic mediators and that is a superpower. Because in this fractured society in this fractured cultural moment, man do we need mediators and people who are willing to see things from another point of view, nines are honest and upfront about things. They don't have a hidden agenda, what they say is what they mean. They help people understand themselves and give great advice. They value the perspectives and stories of other people. The book, The Road Back to You says that nines are seldom attached to their own way of seeing and doing things and are therefore able to make decisions based on the right priorities, which again, gift super power for this day and age especially. This is a deadly sin. Here we go. Attached to the type nine is sloth. This can be misinterpreted.
• 38:48
  Jonathan McCoy: Which is one of my favorite animals. It's all back to nines.
• 38:52
  Ashley Engle: Right, but here's here's what it means. This is often misinterpreted as laziness. But that's not the case because many nines are highly productive and active people. So I've heard this type of sloth described as self sleep, or spiritual sleepwalking. So nines treasure, their inner peace and harmony, almost above anything else. And you can see that with nines, you can see that inner peace and equilibrium on the outside too.
• 39:24
  Ashley Engle: And that's why they bring so much calming energy wherever they are. Nines can be slothful, when it comes to fully paying attention to what they want in life, to chasing their own dreams, addressing their own needs, developing their own gifts and pursuing their callings because they're concerned that if they assert themselves, they will cause disharmony, and the peace that they crave will go away. So they'll also downplay their thoughts and opinions for this reason, too. It's just not worth the conflict to them. So this doesn't mean that they don't assert or advocate for themselves. It just means that when they're unhealthy, they're prone to this type of behavior.
• 40:09
  Ashley Engle: But so at their best nines are steady, comforting, warm and assuring they're wonderful partners, parents and friends.
• 40:16
  Ashley Engle: They love simple pleasures, and they're loyal and kind and I'm so grateful for nines.
• 40:21
  Jonathan McCoy: Oh my gosh. And I feel like I need to go sit with this because and this is so good. Y'all like I and I mean that. I love that you said that I'm going to react in the way that I feel but I do you think like, we need to, like, not just let this conversation pass us by, like, there's so much that we can learn about interacting with others, but not to miss the moment to do the reflection on us. I mean, it's like we need to give space to understand the different ways that we're coming about things. Because if you know, you're aligned at the, at the core, the way that we're just seeing things, or interpreting things is kind of everything you know, is like how we can move forward. And I just think, what can get unlocked as we know ourselves better. And as we know, our teams better and our families better. And it's like, what a moment to do this when there's so much strife across the world, in the country, and even in our own walls at organizations. So thank you for letting me feel seen. I feel really appreciated. And I think, man, there's work to do to and understanding and how I can be a better all the things you know, this is great.
• 41:20
  Ashley Engle: Yes, good. I'm so glad. And I want to encourage everyone, this is just a very high level overview of each type. And I know I'm taking some time because I want people to kind of start to get an idea maybe of where they might fall.
• 41:35
  Ashley Engle: But I want to encourage people to dig deep into this, there are so many layers to the Enneagram.
• 41:38
  Ashley Engle: And this is not sufficient by any means. So please dig deeper into into your prospective type because it's so insightful.
• 41:48
  Ashley Engle: Okay, last type in the gut triad is the type one. So this is the perfectionist or the reformer.
• 41:56
  Ashley Engle: And I actually prefer reformer because I think perfectionist can kind of have some negative connotations. So ones are ethical, dedicated and reliable.
• 42:03
  Ashley Engle: They are motivated by a desire to live the right way improve the world and avoid fault and blame and their core need is the need to be perfect. So ones are idealists who value goodness, balance and morality, they're motivated by the good and just world that could be and they take a lot of responsibility on themselves for bringing that about. They're good examples.
• 42:26
  Ashley Engle: Enneagram teacher Chris Heuertz says that healthy ones are some of the best people that you know. And that's true, they are honest and principled. And they're responsible, rational, reasonable, mature, moderate, they always strive to be ethical and fair and objective. Truth and justice are their primary values. So most ones, as I say, value efficiency, my husband is a one, and he is truly the best person that I know. And that's so great, legit. And he does value efficiency. We went on a trip to Mexico, and we were in like the breakfast line. And I could see him like ones I have the superpower to walk into a room and see what needs to be fixed, what needs to be improved, what needs to be made more efficient. And sure enough, we sit down at our meal and he's like, you know, what they could do is add another line on this side. And this would really improve the flow of traffic like this is what ones do, they are going to improve things and they value efficiency. So when it becomes a problem, though, is when a one starts to get unhealthy and move into stress.
• 43:36
  Ashley Engle: They can present as judgmental, harsh and nitpicky. But what's going on inside of one is so fascinating. And I mentioned this earlier, but ones have what's called an inner critic, because they desire so desperately to be good. And to be to value perfection and goodness. They hold themselves to a really high standard. And so this inner critic is constantly berating them. And an awareness of this, living with a one has been so helpful for me, because I can see on the outside when Jeff's inner critic is in overdrive, and it really is heartbreaking, and it has given me so much compassion for him.
• 44:20
  Ashley Engle: This is something that ones really have to fight and it's it's it's part of their work, you know, is to try to silence this inner critic, or at least turn the volume down a little bit. So then the evil deadly sin that is associated with the one is anger, or rage. And that harsh inner critic can spark the rage in the one, but at their best ones are highly principled.
• 44:44
  Ashley Engle: They're good, upstanding people who seek to make life better, and more just for the rest of us. And I'm so grateful for ones.
• 44:51
  Becky Endicott: Just so much there to unpack. And the reason we want to do this on the show is because this is huge in our work. It's huge in how we communicate up, down, across, with donors, everywhere in our life. And we just wanted a place where you can kind of go and really dive in as a jumping off point after you've already said this. This is just scratching the surface to have what where we can go.
• 45:13
  Becky Endicott: We realize that was a lot of information for you. However, we didn't want to strip away any of the detail for each of those types. Because what do we talk about all the time? The detail, the micro moments, the nuance in this world. That is the thing that binds us and connects us. And so this was the first part and our Enneagram series and we really wanted to do a high overview so you can get a sense of what it is and what the types are. But tune back in to our next episode, because we're going to teach you how to activate it.
• 45:44
  Becky Endicott: We're going to be talking about the correlation between building relationships and the Enneagram.
• 45:47
  Becky Endicott: We're going to be talking about how to use it in everyday life in the office with your family and friends. We're going to talk about self awareness and why it's important to pour into your own type to help you grow. And if you're someone who has growth mindset, we talk about this all the time, we are constantly reassessing ourselves and figuring out how can we be better and more vibrant humans
• 46:10
  Ashley Engle: Barely.
• 46:12
  Ashley Engle: that show up in this world. So this is heart and head work, and we are here for it. And I just have to say, now the whole world and the community knows why I love Ashley Engle, and I have loved her mom for more than 20 years.
• 46:25
  Julie Confer: Hey, friends.
• 46:25
  Julie Confer: Thanks so much for being here.
• 46:25
  Ashley Engle: Back attcha.
• 46:29
  Ashley Engle: Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics. Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free. And you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode.
• 46:48
  Ashley Engle: You can sign up today at weareforgood.com /Hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community.
• 47:00
  Ashley Engle: Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie Confer and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsboom.