Latest / Divine Skintervention / Hot and Smart (w/ Lisa Guerrera & Emmy Ketcham)

Transcript

Hot and Smart (w/ Lisa Guerrera & Emmy Ketcham) · Divine Skintervention

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hi Angelo.
0:06
SPEAKER_06: Hi Ramon.
0:07
SPEAKER_06: How are we?
0:09
SPEAKER_06: Doing well.
0:10
SPEAKER_06: Um, I have something on my mind though.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Let it out, girl.
0:14
SPEAKER_06: It's acne.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: That's that's heavy.
0:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, okay.
0:19
SPEAKER_06: So I think both of us have had a pretty long acne journey.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Still on it.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Zombie rabbit.
0:26
SPEAKER_06: Still on it, actually.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Um we've talked about that acne in like our childhood teenagers was our segue into getting into skincare.
0:35
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
0:37
SPEAKER_06: Um where are you on this journey now?
0:41
SPEAKER_06: Like, what has it been like?
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, honestly, it's really weird because I go through these phases where I think it's stress-induced.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Because the last time I really had a bad, bad, bad breakout was mid-move from London to New York, which was a very tumultuous, very nomadic experience.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Um but overall, it's the with acne, it's a chronic skin condition.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: You maintain it.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: And I also get a breakout here and there, especially like here in my cheek area, a lot in the center of my forehead recently.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: But it's just a matter of like maintenance.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: And I I have learned through doing this for so long that like very regular gentle exfoliation, like basically daily exfoliation, is uh what benefits my skin a lot, as well as I found like azalic acid really beneficial for me.
1:25
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, uh for me, I'm actually like I had a pretty bad breakout recently, which was crazy to me because I was getting like cystic pimples, which is something that hasn't happened to me in a long time.
1:39
SPEAKER_06: And um, I think I said on a previous episode that I've been using Epiduo now again to kind of come out of it.
1:47
SPEAKER_06: Um, but the reason that that's you know kind of scary to me is because uh for years I've been able to do whatever to my skin.
1:55
SPEAKER_06: I think it was a product that broke me out, actually.
1:58
SPEAKER_06: I'm pretty sure.
1:59
SPEAKER_06: Something that I was, you know, experimenting with that made it pop off.
2:04
SPEAKER_06: But um I actually have been through like two different rounds of Accutane in the past.
2:11
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so that's why I was able to put whatever on my face.
2:15
SPEAKER_06: And I think one of the things that people don't realize about isotretinoin, aka Accutane, is that it doesn't really cure acne.
2:23
SPEAKER_06: Um, it puts it into remission.
2:25
SPEAKER_06: And for a lot of people who take it when they're young, you know, their remission lasts long enough that once it wears off, they're old enough that they would like not be getting acne anymore.
2:37
SPEAKER_06: So for me, um, the first time I took it, my remission lasted about seven years.
2:43
SPEAKER_06: And then I started getting pretty bad breakouts again, and then I did another course, and I was fine.
2:49
SPEAKER_06: And that last course was like maybe nine years ago I finished.
2:55
SPEAKER_06: So who knows?
2:58
SPEAKER_06: Hopefully, uh that's not my future again.
3:00
SPEAKER_06: Not that it's a terrible thing, just doing isotretinoin in the US is annoying.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: So um, I've never done Accutane.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's just been primarily uh regular standard cosmetic products or some like easy-to-get OTC products.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: I've never actually done adaplene, I don't think.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: If I can remember.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, every once in a while I'll try tret, but I just don't have an easy avenue to get it.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: I didn't for a while.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's really just like retinal.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: And as lake acid focused or derivative focused product.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Umsalic acid, depending on the actual claims you make on the product, can be a cosmetic product.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: So like 0.5 to 1% almost daily.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I've never done any like major OTC or prescription strength treatments like that.
3:47
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think a lot of people shy away from getting uh prescriptions for acne because I don't know, they think it's gonna be hard to do or hard to get.
3:57
SPEAKER_06: And I just want to remind everybody like you don't necessarily need access to a dermatologist to get uh prescription acne meds.
4:06
SPEAKER_06: Like you could ask your primary care doctor.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of telehealth services now that do offer it, they're not cheap, cheap, but it's easier access.
4:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so I mean, not to say don't go to the dermatologist if you can.
4:19
SPEAKER_06: In some cases of acne, you know, if they're moderate to severe, a derm is really the way to go.
4:25
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, I mean, there there's options out there for you, and even people that you see online that you may be like, they have perfect skin, it's like I struggle with it too.
4:36
SPEAKER_06: Still, I'm nearing 40 and I'm still getting acne, so it's like and I'm a derm.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my favorite thing is that people are like, oh, just do this and eat this and drink water, and it'll it'll cure your acne.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't cure acne, you manage it, you maintain a specific uh level of clarity, but it's not like you could just gr get rid of acne like that.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: Also, something that I know you're very passionate about diet, things like that, it's not such a clear, concise, and consistent uh answer for everyone, or even a cause for everyone.
5:10
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
5:11
SPEAKER_06: Um, I could talk about this for hours, but basically the di the data that we have about diet and acne is not really conclusive.
5:19
SPEAKER_06: Most of what's been found is like not reproducible or only looks at specific subpopulations, and we don't have any data showing that dietary changes influence acne at all.
5:32
SPEAKER_06: Mostly what we see is correlations, not causative relationships.
5:37
SPEAKER_06: So I tend not to put too much stock into that when I treat acne for my patients.
5:43
SPEAKER_06: Um, if it is something that my patient notices that makes their acne fluctuate, I'll, you know, definitely listen to that.
5:52
SPEAKER_06: Or if it's something that they're interested in investigating, rather than giving them like an elimination diet, usually where I start with them is like do a food diary.
6:03
SPEAKER_06: And that way you can maybe correlate certain food intake to when breakouts happen, but not my first line recommendation for sure.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: And plus, again, it can be a range of things that can cause breakouts, blemishes, all that hormones, genetics.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: For me, it was genetic.
6:24
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, products.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: Products.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: So same thing with like things being cometogenic.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: That's not always a first of all, it's not even a legitimate claim.
6:32
SPEAKER_06: It it's not a hard, fast uh rule about what's cometogenic or not, which is also why I hate these uh cometogenicity checker apps where you put in a list of uh uh ingredients and it'll tell you whether or not something's gonna cause acne.
6:51
SPEAKER_06: It depends on the overall formula, the concentration, it depends on you.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: To me, it just really feeds into the anxiety.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Because I mean when you have acne and it's really bad, the anxiety and the mental strain that that puts on you, I've been there.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I feel like those kinds of websites and uh apps, they do nothing but feed and exacerbate that anxiety.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I feel like it really just creates really unhealthy relationships with skincare products, even food, if that's what you're associating your breakouts to.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: It's very unfortunate.
7:19
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
7:20
SPEAKER_06: I definitely think a lot of the content that's out there about not even just diet and acne, but diet and skin overall is could be um, you know, influencing people towards disordered eating.
7:35
SPEAKER_06: So I'm not about it.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Same.
7:39
SPEAKER_06: Speaking about breakouts, uh, we've brought up here several times uh continuum, the uh breakout product that I developed with Experiment.
7:50
SPEAKER_06: And our episode today is actually uh going to be us with the founders of Experiment.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: And what's really funny is uh I'll say this in the episode, but I didn't know Angelo was attached to this product, but I found out about the product earlier in the year, I think like January.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: And I was in the office the day they got the clinical.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: So I knew about the products based off the clinical benefits for or the clinical results first, got the full ingredient story, and I'm like, wow, this product sounds amazing.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: This is like right up my alley, and then like three, four months later, I found out Angelo was the brains behind what is continuum.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: So it all makes sense.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: The pieces came together.
8:27
SPEAKER_06: See, do you know?
8:28
SPEAKER_06: You saw me even though you you didn't know I was there.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: I saw you, you were seen.
8:34
SPEAKER_06: I feel seen.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's powerful, sister.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Sister, I love that for you.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Do you watch those nuns?
8:42
SPEAKER_01: No! The nuns on TikTok?
8:44
SPEAKER_06: No, no, I've heard about this, but I've not seen that.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Sister, and you're so good at that.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Sister?
8:50
SPEAKER_01: Sister.
8:51
SPEAKER_06: We are two sisters in the convent of Divine Skin Intervention.
8:56
SPEAKER_06: And you are congregation.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
9:02
SPEAKER_06: Hey.
9:03
SPEAKER_06: Amen.
9:04
SPEAKER_06: Well, today we have some extra special heavenly thoddies for you all from Experiment.
9:12
SPEAKER_06: Uh, we have the two founders, Emmy Ketchum and Lisa Guerrera.
9:16
SPEAKER_06: Welcome to Divine Skin Intervention.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having us.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: We're so happy to be here.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: You're all over my feed, so I can't wait to be all over my feed.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Our objective was we want to be a nuisance in everyone's lives.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: Being such a nuisance.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: We're here to carry forward that mission.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: I love being a nuisance.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: I love people that are nuisances.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: If anyone should be on everyone's feeds all day, every day, it should be you too.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Stop.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: Stop it.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Speaking of being a nuisance, experiment.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: We do like being a nuisance.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: It's true.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, if you look at the memes on our on our brand company Instagram, like they're not bad.
9:55
SPEAKER_06: So they're I think one of the things that I I've noticed about the brand since the very beginning, and I mean, obviously, we have a working relationship now, but in the beginning I was just a fan.
10:06
SPEAKER_06: Um, since you know, I'm always talking about sustainability and not using like single-use items that come in a bunch of packaging.
10:15
SPEAKER_06: So avant-garde, your guy's a sheet mask, your first product, correct?
10:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:20
SPEAKER_06: That was the first thing that really caught my eye.
10:22
SPEAKER_06: But aside from that, it's also the way that y'all brand everything.
10:27
SPEAKER_06: Which I mean, speaking of branding.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: Branding.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Ramon is our lab glasses ambassador.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: He really is.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: He's our lab rat.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, we're bringing those back.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, because actually, because you've been wearing them, because you're an influencer at the end of the day.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: You influenced them.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Um you influenced people, and now we're getting DMs like, I saw that like Ramon had these glasses.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: Do you guys still have them?
10:55
SPEAKER_02: Or now we're fully out.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: And so we're like, okay, we gotta reorder.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, I posted the photo of me having these over the current body mask.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: I was like, super, and people were like, that's brilliant.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: One of my lad texts from back in London was like, I'm gonna show this, I'm gonna print this out and put this on the door.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: People, there's no excuse.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: No, there isn't PPE at all times.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: Right, PPE, and and that's what's important.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
11:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like what's y'all's approach to that?
11:22
SPEAKER_06: Because I think even for me as somebody with a brand, you know, obviously world building is really important.
11:29
SPEAKER_06: And I mean, obviously, yeah, the product is good, but you're not gonna break through unless you can get that message across.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I mean, for us, when we started the brand, so we started the brand in 2020.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was 25, Emmy was 28.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: 27?
11:51
SPEAKER_02: 27, 28.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, so we were like hashtag young.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Um and now we're old now.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, but we were pretty young when we started, and I think that was like to our benefit because like we just kind of like didn't have like I think a lot of beauty brands are started by in the past, started by like industry professionals, people who have been going in the industry for a long time.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of norms about how beauty is marketed.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, and those were things like Emmy and I really just kind of didn't care about.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Um so um I feel like not just the approach to like formulation, like our approach to formulation has always been like really interesting.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: Like Emmy's always been like, I don't care that this is like the normal way to formulate something, like I want to do something different.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, similarly, we take that approach to branding and marketing too.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it helps that like I'm very online.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you know, I think the way that um when we started the brand, like what we were seeing in the market was so many of these science back brands that we love, that we recommend as as both chemists to our friends because we're the point person that all of our friends asked, like, what skincare should I buy?
13:13
SPEAKER_02: What should I get?
13:14
SPEAKER_02: Um and it's always like when the ordinary first came, I was like, the ordinary, get the ordinary, do it, do it, do it.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, because we were just excited about a brand that was like focused on ingredients.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: But over time, like more of these brands started popping up, and the approach to all of them was so, so similar and really, really clinical.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: And I think the way that you can like break through on branding is to also be like contrarian, to be a little bit different, to um do things in a way that surprises people.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Or the way I like to think about it is putting two things together that you think don't go together, but that you make it work.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Are you saying you two?
13:50
SPEAKER_02: I think you guys go together.
13:53
SPEAKER_06: We're like uh peanut butter and chocolate, or what do they think about?
13:55
SPEAKER_06: I feel like if people don't actually know us and see us together, they don't get that vibe though.
13:58
SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, yeah.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: I feel like people say that about us.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: We get that actually a lot.
14:05
SPEAKER_06: Y'all are complimentary.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, we get that a lot.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we get that a lot.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's also what makes the business work.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: Whenever it comes to marketing, um, I just really like to think about two opposing forces coming together.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you make that work?
14:19
SPEAKER_02: And when you can make it work, it usually creates something really new and fresh that people didn't think could exist before.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: So, like when we think about um what I call like the first generation of science-backed brands, um, we have like CeraVee, La Roche Pazet, um, you know, Aven, like kind of these really like dermatological clinical brands.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: Then you've got like the next iteration of that, which is like the ordinary, the InkyList, Nuturium brands like that that are very ingredient focused.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: I saw your eyes.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, very ingredient focused.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we consider ourselves like the next wave, which is, you know, um a brand that looks at science not just from kind of the sterile dermatological clinical angle or the sterile, like we're in the lab and we have a white lab coat on and it's black and white chopper bottles.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: We're looking at it in the way that like scientists look at science, which is with wonder, with joy, um, how we looked at it when we were kids, with a little nostalgia.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's what draws people in to listen to the science.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: And then you can actually help educate them and you know bring them into the fold.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: And then maybe they're excited to learn more about the science, right?
15:31
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they're more likely to listen to us on social media when there's a bunch of other loud videos trying to tell them a bunch of misinformation.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: Like maybe experiment can break through the noise that way to deliver a different kind of message.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so like we have a few like kind of guiding principles of the brand that guide like not just even formulate, like sometimes formulation, yes, but like really around like packaging, branding, um, like how we approach kind of all of those things.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: And that's we want it to be seriously unserious.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: So we take the science really seriously, the products really seriously, the results really seriously, but we present them in an unserious fashion in order to get people to absorb the seriousness.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: And then uh hot and smart.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, that's that's something we put on a hat, something people love.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Um and I I've really like enjoyed seeing how people like embody the hot and smart piece.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: And I see a lot of like as we've done this business for like five years, five, six years, um hot and smart has gotten more exciting.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: Like we were just talking about Charlie XEX, and I'm like, Charlie XCX is hot and smart.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes, she is.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: Right.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: So is like Bill Nye, right?
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I mean?
16:43
SPEAKER_06: My one of my idols.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: That's our dream.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: That's our dream celebrity partnership.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: Dream.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: Bill Nye.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: If you're watching this right now, hit us up.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: We would love to, we would love to collab.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, because like he's now on runways and shit.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm like, yes, yes, get him out there.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: But but it's it's that kind of um juxtaposition that I think makes something really interesting.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of beauty brands tend not to play with that.
17:09
SPEAKER_02: They tend to go in a more safe route or tend to like, you know, aesthetic, like glowy, dewy, like la la la.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: Like that's that's usually how I talk in the office.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: Or I'm like, you know, a photo like this, like when you're applying skincare, it's like the swipe across the cheek is a classic image.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: We have those now, but I'm like, in the beginning, I kind of freaking hated those.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, how do we get someone applying product in a more realistic way?
17:35
SPEAKER_02: How do we get something that feels more real to the consumer?
17:38
SPEAKER_02: So it's really about like the juxtaposition and then relating back to the consumer in order to get them to be more excited about the science, and that's kind of like in a broader way how we go about it.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: I think one of the big uh interesting aspects about experiment is how you like kind of uh straddle this area of like it's relatable, it's approachable, but it's also disruptive to some degree.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: And that's done really well for you guys online on TikTok in store at Sephora as well.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: And one of those things is the packaging is so different, the world you've built is so different, but also the way you communicate science.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: I have a video of Emmy on TikTok at any given point.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Just like today's haunting you.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: Today's it was um explaining glycerin being a skin protectant, but also all the benefits of it and like the way you approach explaining these concepts.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: First of all, you're just like this bright, bubbly face.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: So like fun to watch, but you explain it so well and so easily.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: And I think had communicating what you do and what the products can do for consumers in such an approachable way is a really big asset for you guys.
18:37
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
18:38
SPEAKER_03: I try to think about like whenever I'm educating on a topic, I try to think about how I would want to explain it to a friend.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: Like it's been, I feel like over the course of this company's life, it's been kind of hard to figure out how to walk that line because obviously we know that there's a ton of nuance in science.
18:57
SPEAKER_03: And in order to educate on it, you really have to collapse down a lot of that nuance.
19:02
SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's been a journey for me, starting with wanting to like give people all of the possible information I could so that they can then make a decision for themselves, and realizing that actually people want to be told more so what to do than sometimes I want to tell them.
19:19
SPEAKER_03: So I try to kind of bring those two things together where I'm giving them like very clear information, but the goal is always to free them from the rules of skincare, like give them enough information so that they feel empowered and not like fearful.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: Liberate them from the shackles of fear.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: No, literally, literally up the change for a yeah, though.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: We actually very early on, I remember like in so we started this business.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: I was living in Oakland for a year and a half.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: That's my detour.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: I'm from New York, I've lived in New York for the rest of time.
19:50
SPEAKER_03: Um That's where we met.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: We in the Bay Area.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, we met.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't living there yet.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: Well, we were in the Bay Area.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, I was unfortunately in the Bay Area.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, sorry.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Um it's not my favorite place.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: It's my favorite place, and that's where we differ.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: And that's what's beautiful.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: That's what's beautiful, the juxtaposition.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: The juxtaposition.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: Yang yang, am I right?
20:11
SPEAKER_02: East coast, west coast.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: East coast, west coast.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: So um I remember we were in my kitchen and we had so many.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: Look, I love lines, I love little tag lines, I love we have five million, it's almost horribly overwhelming.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, but one of the early ones we had is like, know the rules so you can break them.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: And so that was, it was very much like because once you actually kind of know a subject really well, you start to understand where the exceptions live.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: It's like Dunning-Kruger curve, like if you don't know a lot, you think things in absolutes.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's like, well, you cannot layer these ingredients, and like you can't do this and you can't do that.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: And we're like, that's so annoying.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: It's actually like really not.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: It's not that serious.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: It's really not that serious, guys.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Like it'll get there, like promise.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, there's like an optimal, like you can over-optimize things, but it just will probably make you anxious and like annoyed along the way.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: Um diminishing gains.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, super diminishing gains.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Like, I tell so many people, I'm like, are you applying sunscreen?
21:13
SPEAKER_02: They're like, Yeah, I do it every day, but I don't have any other skincare routine.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, well, you're like 90% of the way there.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, so like muzzle tough, like, you know, maybe wash your face and like put a little moisturizer on, like, then we can talk.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: Like, but it's it's really not as complicated as social media, I think, has really made it out to be, as we all know.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Like the kinds of questions that you can get are so ultra specific.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: And that's cool, fun to answer, but I think it comes from a place where people are afraid of like breaking the rules.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: They're afraid of doing skincare wrong somehow.
21:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:50
SPEAKER_03: And there's like a very like small way to do it wrong, and there are a ton of ways to do it right.
21:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:56
SPEAKER_03: We always say it's not that deep.
21:58
SPEAKER_03: No, it is not a little bit of a lot of people.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: It's really not.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: It's really not that deep.
22:02
SPEAKER_06: I think also like a lot of people get turned off to doing it at all because they think it's just like all or nothing.
22:08
SPEAKER_06: And when you present them with, oh, well, here are all of the options, and here's like 10 different steps, then like their brain shuts off.
22:16
SPEAKER_06: So overcomplicating it is not a good thing.
22:19
SPEAKER_06: But at the same time, yeah, we definitely we have an episode coming out before this, I think, where we're talking about like all these misconceptions that people come up with, and they're almost like you could tell there's anxiety about it.
22:31
SPEAKER_06: Yes and there should not be anxiety around taking care of your skin.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's one of like when Lisa was talking about the ordinary and the inky list.
22:39
SPEAKER_03: That's kind of one of the things we discovered when they first came on the scene.
22:44
SPEAKER_03: And I was telling all my friends, I was like, go to them, they have amazing products, they're such a low price point.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: But it's kind of very complicated to understand like what do you buy from them and how do you incorporate it into your routine unless you have a lot of expertise.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: I talked about Olaplex.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what numbers do I use?
23:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of numbers.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: How does this work?
23:05
SPEAKER_02: There's now there's like A and B.
23:06
SPEAKER_06: Like Don't get me started on Olaplex.
23:09
SPEAKER_06: Oh my God.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's like, I think it's, you know, obviously like the desire to have this like elaborate and complex and almost luxurious skincare routine that kind of gets promoted to people through, you know, get unready with me.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, all these influencers who get gifted a ton of stuff, like they're not buying it.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: Like, and and like I've been gifted a ton of stuff.
23:36
SPEAKER_02: There's some stuff I don't buy, but there's some stuff I really do.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: That's the stuff I really love.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, they see these like elaborate routines and they think, okay, that's how I look like this person.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's not really how it works at all.
23:50
SPEAKER_03: The secret is they just naturally have gorgeous skin.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: I know, and they probably have a pretty resilient skin barrier that can like.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: They could not be doing all that, and it would still be beautiful.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, and a filter.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: And a filter.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: And a filter.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: And the filters are only getting better.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Um the thing is right now it's uh the skin flooding and the girls using 10 toners, which I love.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm one of those girls that are.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: I love a toner.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: I this is something Emmy disagrees with me on, and I love a toner.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't hate a toner.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm just like Emmy, give me a toner though.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: She wants me to make it.
24:19
SPEAKER_03: I'm demanding a toner.
24:21
SPEAKER_03: It's floating out there in the ether of our catch it.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we just actively in the MPD pipeline.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: It's coming soon.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, it's floating in the ether.
24:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, on my bench.
24:32
SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, the hardest part, it's not like we have so many ideas for products, really.
24:36
SPEAKER_03: Figuring out like when do we launch them all.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: Because we don't we don't launch a product in a chill way.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: It's not chill about it.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: No.
24:44
SPEAKER_06: This was something I wanted to touch on too.
24:46
SPEAKER_06: Like, from a branding perspective, it's almost like your entire brand changes when you have a new product coming out.
24:54
SPEAKER_06: Like it's that makes me happy.
24:56
SPEAKER_06: Everything is themed.
24:57
SPEAKER_06: It's almost like I love a theme.
24:59
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
24:59
SPEAKER_06: Before we got on mic, we were talking about pop stars.
25:02
SPEAKER_06: It's almost like an album cycle that y'all go through.
25:05
SPEAKER_06: The era, the Madonna era.
25:06
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
25:07
SPEAKER_06: So um, one thing that we talk about on the podcasts a lot is that there are these brands that just trade in nudeness constantly, and it's easy to get sucked into that.
25:18
SPEAKER_06: That, like, okay, the only way we're gonna increase sales is to come out with something new, and then they end up with a huge catalog of products, or they're discontinuing things on the back end quietly while they're gonna be a good thing.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: It's a turn and burn situation.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:30
SPEAKER_06: So uh yeah, like how did you like why is that your approach?
25:35
SPEAKER_06: Because I I really love it, and I'm always saying that brands need to try to just innovate and make better products rather than jumping on trends.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think like two pieces to that.
25:48
SPEAKER_02: Emmy and I, like, to the point of the ordinary, we were like, we can't like the amount of SKUs that are coming out adds to the level of complication that and choice fatigue.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: It adds anxiety, like the anxiety that we're fighting against.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and we were like wanted to see more like whole formulations, right?
26:08
SPEAKER_02: Not not these piecemeal approaches to getting the actives you want, right?
26:11
SPEAKER_02: That's I mean continuum.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Like continuum is like a beautiful mix of multiple different, like useful actives.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: Whereas with other brands, you might have to get an acylic acid serum, you might have to get a salicylic acid serum, you might have to get an antioxidant, you might like a bunch of things that you'll then have to piece together in your in your routine.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, that you have to figure out what order.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: And if you don't know a lot, you're like, can I use them at the same time?
26:33
SPEAKER_02: And there's so many questions that pop up.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, so we wanted to make sure that like we weren't launching a lot.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: We were like, if we can make the best version of X, right?
26:42
SPEAKER_02: The best hydrating serum is where we started, then that is a product people will love, repurchase, and be loyal to.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: And that is actually what we found.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: We have a really like we have a very, very, very loyal customer base.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that is uh attributed to not just like the level of care we put into the launches, but also the level of care, like really the level of care formulation that goes into it.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: Now the second part of that with like how we turn over the brand, I have ADHD.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: So if we didn't do that, I I I reflected on this recently actually.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: Um I was like, if we didn't do that, I would be so bored.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: I I would like claw my eyes out, I think.
27:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, like looking at the way other brands launch, like if you are someone that craves consistency in that, like Godspeed, like you are awesome.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: I can't do it.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: We're called experiment.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, we're experimenting.
27:37
SPEAKER_02: We're experimenting, let's play around.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's a lesson that like we talked about super early on with Glossier, where what we saw with Glossier, not necessarily in the launch cadence, because they I liked their launch, their OG launch cadence.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: Um their current, we don't know.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, but things are happening as we speak.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, but their OG launch cadence, I thought was smart.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, and their branding though proved to be a wall for them.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: They built up really high, like garden walls that enclosed the brand into one space.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: And it didn't allow the brand to breathe and grow and integrate into a new era of taste that consumers were feeling.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean you turn over your entire brand, but if you've built it up infrastructurally, like the branding, that everything's really rigid, it's really hard to like, it's great to get brand identity and like brand aware, like you have a clean brand, people know what the logo is, all that stuff, but like you can't adapt.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: And then you feel stale, right?
28:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's actually a worse, that's a worse fate in a lot of ways.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's hard to revamp that.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: So, like for us, we wanted to build the brand in a way that like could breathe and iterate on itself, uh, but still feel familiar.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it's a fine line that we have to walk every single launch because it is kind of like an album release.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: Like we are uh debuting a new color, a new personality in a sense, but it all centers around like very specific themes.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: So we kind of pick a branch of science basically that's related to the product.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: Um it's it's I go through a journey.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Um you pick a branch of science that's related to the product, and then we bring it into kind of we we've been iterating on this even recently, like this evolves over time too, but we usually bring it into some kind of era that's real that that we feel like complements it.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: But but it always has to balance the hot and the smart.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: So the branch of science is usually the place where we bring in the smart, and the hot comes from like the era.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: Like typically we're in like the 2000s Y2K, because we like adding a touch of nostalgia without it feeling um like everybody else's like Y2K nostalgia because we're adding in that science, we're adding in kind of um a fresh kind of feeling to it.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: We're pulling a lot from sci-fi, we're pulling a lot from history.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, I look a lot at like scientific history.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, I took science philosophy and that was my minor in college.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Um what does that even mean?
30:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, okay.
30:10
SPEAKER_03: I hate philosophy.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: I love philosophy.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: I know you hate philosophy.
30:13
SPEAKER_03: I took a science philosophy.
30:14
SPEAKER_03: Girl, I could tell you they hated it.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: It was like, what if she hates ambiguity?
30:19
SPEAKER_03: It's like, what if every particle of swamp gas like formed your physical being?
30:25
SPEAKER_03: Is it you or is it not you?
30:26
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I don't care.
30:29
SPEAKER_06: Maybe I am swamp gas.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: My first philosophy class opened up with like, I had this philosophy professor who did not look like a philosophy professor.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: He was this like big, big dude, like 6'5, brawlic, ginger, had road rage, but incredibly nice.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: Like he would talk about the one outlet he has is Road Rage.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, but he's like the the coolest professor ever.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: And like, I just don't want to see you on the road, that's all.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, because you sound kind of scary.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I'm like, look, if that's your allager, um, he opened the class with like, if gas filled this room right now through vents, we all fell asleep, and then um the FBI like replaced our bodies but put our like minds back in.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: Is it still you?
31:14
SPEAKER_02: Or I forgot like what it was something like that where it's like are you still you?
31:17
SPEAKER_02: See, Ramon is locked in.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Is it you?
31:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, but we I also so there was it was a series of classes where um we took um philosophy of every branch of science.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: So I did philosophy of space-time, philosophy of um quantum physics, philosophy of science, which was the basis of the other classes.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: It was really fun.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could just do whatever you want now.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: Everybody's so creative.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: Um City College of New York, CUNY, shout out.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, we had a great professor.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: She was a dual PhD in particle physics and philosophy.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: And she's the coolest person ever.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: I can never Professor Elise, shout out.
32:00
SPEAKER_06: Um so when it came to the launch of continuum, yeah.
32:03
SPEAKER_06: Think about that branding.
32:04
SPEAKER_06: So the branch of science, I'm gonna guess physics.
32:07
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
32:07
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: So this was like, I think I went the most insane.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: She did.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: I did.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: I I think I went through like some kind of ego death or some shit.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm joking.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: But like, I there was a moment where I was like, this is too big, we're going too crazy, we're going too far.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, because I was like starting to be like, okay, time, like circles, like acne of all like I was really like the moon.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: No, it was literally the moon.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: Like I I think it's because like I actually use this in our like brand deck that we like present to the team, where it's like that always sunny in Philadelphia meme where it's like, yeah, yes, that is me.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Um and I use that for every presentation because that's how it feels.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Um but I think continuum is the most complicated because yeah, physics was the branch, and physics is the weirdest.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: Like it gets really weird up in there.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: Um I like chemistry because it's like the known science, it's the known branch of science.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: Like it's like we're kind of in the middle, and we like we get what's going on.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: To me, it's like it's very concrete, it's very map-based, it's very objective.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: It's like with pictures.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
33:13
SPEAKER_03: Love map of pictures.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: Physics, it's like, let's add some whims whimsian magic up in there.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: And then make it up from there.
33:20
SPEAKER_06: I think I think physics starts very concrete.
33:22
SPEAKER_06: Like it could be very level one, like, oh yeah, okay, if I drop a bowling ball from this height, like, you know, kinetic energy definition.
33:31
SPEAKER_06: And then it ends with, yeah, quantum physics.
33:34
SPEAKER_06: And then it's like, are we in a black hole?
33:35
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Um could be, I don't know if you're getting those videos on TikTok.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, I am.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: Um the the videos that I'm currently being served on TikTok are Are We in a Black Hole?
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, and some like from like excerpts from like the science channel or whatever, um, or PBS.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then like uh Ancient Earth.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: Are you on an ancient earth TikTok?
33:58
SPEAKER_01: I kind of not at the moment, but I do love that little proto taxai.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: It's like POV, you land like in the or something period.
34:06
SPEAKER_06: Whoa.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's weird.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: It's funky.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: I have a fear of ancient earth.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's really creepy there.
34:11
SPEAKER_02: Um I just imagine like you're all alone and it's like nothing looks familiar, but you're on Earth.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: Weird.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: But I'm still the hottest person there.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: So true.
34:19
SPEAKER_03: Um she's also scared of Pangea.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, because if you're not gonna be a good one.
34:24
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, thank you so much.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: You might have to think about how long it would take to fly from one of it to the other.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: Think about it.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: Think about okay, wait.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Also think flying.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: Think about your own Pangea.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, hold up.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Think about it.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Have you ever seen that photo of the side of the earth that basically has no land on it?
34:43
unknown: Yeah.
34:44
SPEAKER_06: Well, like just like the open ocean.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: It's the Pacific Ocean.
34:47
SPEAKER_06: It's the Pacific Ocean.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: And that's how big big it is.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: Ew.
34:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, but like ew.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: Um Pangea imagine Pangea.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: Like you're on this piece of land, right?
34:57
SPEAKER_02: And then there's just nothing else.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: It's just water.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: But you don't know that.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: Like if but I would.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: Like that's you wouldn't know.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: No, but I'm thinking about it with the knowledge I have currently.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: The same way I would fly with the airplanes that we have currently.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: Over Pangea.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's like hour 14, I'm like, wow, we still got so much to go.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: We're only in the middle.
35:15
SPEAKER_06: Like Well, there's nothing there.
35:17
SPEAKER_06: Why would you be flying?
35:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's like something on the other side.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: More water?
35:23
SPEAKER_01: This is the was it philosophy of science or whatever it's called.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: So philosophically, if there was something on the other end, how would you get there?
35:30
SPEAKER_02: More like hypothetically.
35:32
SPEAKER_06: Hypothetically.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: If you have to get to the other scientists, and then is it like still really you if you get to the other side?
35:38
SPEAKER_02: And then is it still really you're not going to right?
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Did you travel back in time?
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Um anyway.
35:43
SPEAKER_06: About continuum.
35:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:45
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: Back back to the back to the hands.
35:48
SPEAKER_06: Back on track.
35:48
SPEAKER_06: For those of you who don't know or just tuned in, this is a product that we developed together, me and experiment.
35:56
SPEAKER_06: Not not Ramon.
35:57
SPEAKER_06: Ramon was not involved, he just uses it a lot and will always hype it on.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: I empty one.
36:03
SPEAKER_06: A fan, a supporter, a good friend.
36:05
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: And empty is the ultimate.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: I actually packed it inside my suitcase right now.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: Really?
36:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: That's why I replaced the refillable part of it.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm so flattered.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: What I took with me to Lollapalooza.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: What's in my bag?
36:19
SPEAKER_06: So let's kind of take our listeners back to the beginning on this, which started with y'all before I was even aware.
36:27
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
36:28
SPEAKER_06: A long time ago.
36:28
SPEAKER_06: Like four and a half years, almost five years.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: Probably yeah.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: That feels right.
36:36
SPEAKER_03: That feels right.
36:37
SPEAKER_03: July.
36:38
SPEAKER_03: So it was actually the third formula that we started working on.
36:43
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
36:44
SPEAKER_03: I was looking back at our, we have like project numbers sequentially, and I realized it was uh project 003, and I was like, that's crazy.
36:54
SPEAKER_03: Because we took so long formulating it.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
36:57
SPEAKER_03: But I actually think I think it was your idea to bring Angelo in to the formulation process.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: Um I was doing all like it was just Emmy and I at the time.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: Right?
37:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:09
SPEAKER_02: Um so like Emmy was in the lab.
37:12
SPEAKER_02: I was I was like, influencers, hey.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Angelo's great.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: Like I would love if we had like a derm on board for this because it's a product that's dealing with breakouts.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: Like we want to have that expertise on the table.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Um and I think like speaks to the whole like, oh, chemists versus derm, you know, educators online and stuff.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, everyone has their own expertise.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: It's when like people pretend like they have the other is is the problem.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: And so we're like, okay, chemists, we have our expertise, and like Emmy's dad is a dermatologist, and so like Dr.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: Ketchum, um and Alex, educated mask goes to him or her mom.
37:52
SPEAKER_02: Her and her mom.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: My dad was very small worlds, but it's like we um like we just knew like we wanted to bring in a dermatologist for it.
38:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: And it was really exciting.
38:05
SPEAKER_03: I remember when we first like presented the concept to you, we knew like conceptually what we wanted to do.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: We knew that we wanted it to be like a full spectrum, gentle approach that people can combine with their RX products.
38:18
SPEAKER_03: So that like going back to our philosophy, we wanted it to be easy to incorporate into any routine.
38:25
SPEAKER_03: Non-anxiety inducer.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no anxiety to be found here.
38:29
SPEAKER_03: Um and so we presented that concept to you, but we didn't have like the active ingredient profile fully fleshed out.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: And so it was really exciting that you were excited about it and to be able to bring you on board to help us really like navigate from a dermatologist's perspective which actives are going to like really have the most efficacy, what's gonna play well together.
38:51
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think the concept was so exciting for me because for a lot of uh cosmetic products that are targeted at breakouts, they're trying to be, I think, uh the be-all end-all or a stand-in for prescriptions.
39:09
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
39:10
SPEAKER_06: And in that way, you know, they're not gonna be as efficacious.
39:15
SPEAKER_06: They're maybe only for people who um have like mild breakouts or occasional breakouts, and the majority of the people who suffer with breakouts are not just getting them mildly or, you know, just periodically.
39:32
SPEAKER_06: It's something that they deal with all the time.
39:34
SPEAKER_06: Having something that's almost like a support there that could work with prescriptions.
39:39
SPEAKER_06: I was like, this is a totally new approach.
39:42
SPEAKER_06: I was instantly on board because I was like, this concept of having something that would be non-irritating, that would be supportive, that really addresses a lot of the signs that we see after somebody gets a pimple, like redness, dark spots, and like putting that all into one.
40:01
SPEAKER_06: I think I was excited just as y'all were by the challenge of that.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it was a challenge.
40:07
SPEAKER_03: It was.
40:08
SPEAKER_06: So yeah, for the audience, that's why it took so long because we iterated on it a lot.
40:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:15
SPEAKER_06: Um, I remember during the process, it's like when y'all came to me, you had some ideas of actives, we discussed it, and then um the I think like a lot of the crosstalk between, you know, the chemist side and the dermatologist side was I'd be like, oh, this would be really efficacious.
40:32
SPEAKER_06: And then Emmy would be like, that's not gonna work in the formula.
40:36
SPEAKER_03: That's gonna ruin my life.
40:37
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
40:38
SPEAKER_06: Um, so that won't work.
40:39
SPEAKER_06: And then, you know, uh, we went back and forth about a lot of different actives or even like the forms to put in, which you know, I wouldn't know from an ingredient standpoint, like, oh, which types of salicylic acid, or like what version of encapsulated salicylic acid we put in.
40:56
SPEAKER_06: So I just knew that it would be helpful and it would work.
41:00
SPEAKER_06: So yeah, it was like having that ability to kind of go back and forth, I think was something that was so unique.
41:07
SPEAKER_06: Just because I mean, I've consulted for other brands, and usually where they bring us in is, you know, looking at the clinicals that they've already done or giving them some opinions about what direction to go in.
41:20
SPEAKER_06: But it's interesting.
41:21
SPEAKER_06: The way that I've yeah, it's like they already have something in mind, and I think especially bigger brands, they start with their target consumer and then they build kind of the cell around that.
41:35
SPEAKER_06: And I think maybe the reason they want to have us on board is, you know, they could say, you know, dermatologist approved, or they're just picking our brains rather than, you know, kind of like creating something together or having a project together.
41:49
SPEAKER_06: So um, I mean, I think for me, you know, in this little career I've made for myself, it it's really been like one of the most interesting, different things I've been able to do.
42:01
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
42:02
SPEAKER_03: I feel like you really hit on how our formulation or like our development process is different.
42:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, I remember previously in my career, it was always frustrating that, you know, when you're in the lab, or you know, you'll get a brief and they've already listed out based off of the trends, like what actives they want in there.
42:20
SPEAKER_03: So you're not really starting from a place of formulating for efficacy, you're starting from a place of formulating for, like you said, like the target customer, what trends they're into, what else is happening in the landscape.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, part of the reason that it also takes us so long to formulate and we have so few uh products that we launch is because like every product that we develop is like a journey of discovery along the way.
42:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: Like we know what our goal is, which what Lisa said earlier is to make the best X.
42:51
SPEAKER_03: But it's kind of in the lab and through iteration and testing that we figure out what that actually even looks like from an ingredient and a storytelling perspective, which is fun, frustrating sometimes.
43:04
SPEAKER_03: But it's a very fun way to develop products.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: It is, and I think also that that's why our marketing tends to feel so like love fit to the product itself, and why we have an opportunity to treat it almost like an album release.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, similarly to an album release, and the way it probably should go, the music is made first and then the album is marketed.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, but and in big probably stars who are a little bit more corporate, who have more like record label on their neck kind of vibes, maybe it's the other way around, right?
43:35
SPEAKER_02: The marketing, and then you glue fit the music to it.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: We make the music first, the product, and then we create that album release like uh experience.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: So, like once the product is done is when marketing really starts.
43:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, obviously, Emmy and I are going back and forth, like just discussing like high level like, okay, this is where I'm thinking that like Emmy comes to me with a formula, and like this is where I'm thinking it's the most efficacious and I'm like Oh yeah, I think we can do something around this, this, and this.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm actually ideating on the marketing through the product, not actually the other way around.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's what makes the product so strong is that like we're not trying to fit a trend, or like I'm not like, you know, I just saw a trend report that's uh this extract is really trending.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: We really need to get some PDRN in here.
44:22
SPEAKER_03: We need to get some PDRN in here stat.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: Um like we're not doing that.
44:26
SPEAKER_02: Um and it's why like super saturated like came to be um our 30% glycerin serum, our best-selling product.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: Like that product would have never really come about through a marketing brief given to a chemist.
44:41
SPEAKER_02: I feel like it can only really be made through a chemist like fucking around in the lab.
44:46
SPEAKER_02: Experimenting.
44:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, hashtag experimenting.
44:49
SPEAKER_06: Finding out.
44:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
44:51
SPEAKER_06: Um, I think especially one thing that I saw that impressed me through, you know, our development process with Continuum is like your group of beta testers.
45:02
SPEAKER_06: Love them.
45:02
SPEAKER_06: At some point, it's like before the formula was locked, we had people testing it out, and we made changes based on their experience with the product.
45:12
SPEAKER_06: And this was pre getting clinicals done.
45:15
SPEAKER_06: So it was like we wanted to know during the process what happened when you know different people used it.
45:22
SPEAKER_06: Because like using it on our faces, that was something that we did quite often, but you know, it's like n of three.
45:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
45:31
SPEAKER_06: Not very good.
45:32
SPEAKER_03: Nope.
45:32
SPEAKER_06: Um, so yeah.
45:34
SPEAKER_06: Do you do that with all of the products?
45:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh Continuum was actually the only one so far that we've had to do two rounds of beta testing.
45:43
SPEAKER_03: But all of our other products, they always basically when it gets about 80% there is when I'll start beta testing.
45:50
SPEAKER_03: It's also like emotionally when I start spiraling is when we'll start beta testing.
45:56
SPEAKER_03: Because when I get to 80%, then I start getting a little obsessed about what to do to get it to 100.
46:02
SPEAKER_03: And so that signal in my brain is I need to outsource this.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: I need to bring in our labx testers, and I need to know what they think because my brain can't be trusted anymore because I'm getting a little too neurotic about it.
46:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think it's like the balance of that like drive for like this has to be the best effects, right?
46:22
SPEAKER_02: Like that gets us to push it past something where maybe most brands would approve it at a certain point.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, but like there's these little details and touches that like we want to change.
46:33
SPEAKER_02: And like I think with the LabX beta testers too, we have such a big list.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, we're able to source like a diverse group of people, we're able to source a diverse group of people with acne, right?
46:43
SPEAKER_02: Like we're able to, you know, like we're able to actually filter through our list and find people with the actual skin conditions, um, skin tones, um, and and preferences that we're targeting that we we want to test the product.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: Um and like I think that's what's been so useful about that list because we have them fill out a survey.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: Um it's like 40, it's like a long um to get into labs.
47:08
SPEAKER_03: It's like 20.
47:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like 20 questions, but they're not like you gotta like tell us some stuff.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: Um so you know, we need that information in order to like actually be able to filter through and and find the right people.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: It's been so like great.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Also to get that feedback before going into a clinical task because like it's expensive as money.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you don't want to find out after the fact.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Continuum is our most expensive clinical by far, honestly.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: I was actually in the office the day you got the results back, I think.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: You were?
47:38
SPEAKER_01: I was.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: That was the first time I learned about continuum.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know Angela was attached to that project until like two or three months ago.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I remember, I remember when I told you, and you were like, You're like, wait a minute, what?
47:48
SPEAKER_03: I think because it we had just been working on it for so long, yeah, that it was just like normal to us.
47:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she's like, yeah, yeah, that's what we're doing.
47:57
SPEAKER_06: Our little project, but yeah, just a little project.
48:00
SPEAKER_06: It took forever.
48:00
SPEAKER_06: But you know what?
48:01
SPEAKER_06: I think um in the end, what we came out with is was worth the the wait and all the time that it took.
48:09
SPEAKER_06: A banger.
48:10
SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
48:11
SPEAKER_02: I I think like I'm the one that like has like the cystic acne in the office, right?
48:16
SPEAKER_02: So like I've always been so acne prone my entire life.
48:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, and like I use prescriptions, but and and similarly, I'm like, I hate that like I feel like brands are usually making products that are too strong for me to use alongside my prescriptions.
48:33
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just like I can't really do anything about that.
48:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, which feels not fun, you know, just on a side note, like I'm like, I want to try things, um, I want to use things.
48:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, but continuum has been like the one product that truly is like supportive to those pieces.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: And like my skin is clearer, it is calmer, which is like a big one.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, and my my breakouts just resolve a lot faster and more like it goes a little more smoothly, if you will.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm not left with like the same.
49:10
SPEAKER_02: I used to get really bad PIE after um breakouts, and I feel like it's a lot better now.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, the PIE piece was like huge for continuum for me.
49:20
SPEAKER_02: I think that was like the first thing I really noticed is like the PIE reduction.
49:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, so my mom actually told me recently that she has stopped using her rosacea treatments since starting continuum.
49:34
SPEAKER_03: Get out!
49:35
SPEAKER_06: That's crazy.
49:35
SPEAKER_06: Not to tell y'all to do that, but yeah, right, but it is impressive.
49:40
SPEAKER_03: Look, there is not approved to treat rosacea, but potentially support those with rosacea.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
49:47
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
49:47
SPEAKER_06: I think the the redness reduction uh numbers out of the clinicals was probably that was my next question.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: It's like, what did the clinicals actually show evidence-wise for like the benefits of continuum?
49:57
SPEAKER_03: Um, well, the one I'm the most proud of that you're about to talk about is redness reduction.
50:02
SPEAKER_03: We saw almost 50% reduction in redness, which is huge.
50:07
SPEAKER_03: Like being able to cut redness in half.
50:08
SPEAKER_03: I'm someone that like really struggles with redness.
50:12
SPEAKER_03: And like that was something that it's just a really hard claim to achieve.
50:17
SPEAKER_03: We saw a reduction in essentially like all of the side effects associated with breakout prone skin, reduc reduction in the appearance of dark spots, texture, congestion, um, reduction in the inside pimples, breakout, reduction in the appearance of blemishes.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: We gotta be careful the claims here.
50:40
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
50:41
SPEAKER_03: Look.
50:42
SPEAKER_06: I mean, one of the things that I think excites me most, and you know, potentially this is a future clinical if y'all ever want to publish something, is like the idea that potentially using this alongside prescriptions that it might help with tolerability by calming the skin, because we have a calming complex in there and antioxidants.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: So I think the best part of continuum is the facet that it is really comprehensive, and so for you guys, yeah, you wanted it to be very like multimodal, like every aspect of like the blemish cycle.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, like having it in conjunction with actual like higher strength prescription and uh treatments, I feel like it really makes sense in that world.
51:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would love to do that.
51:27
SPEAKER_03: Every time you say that, it like tickles my brain.
51:29
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I think we gotta look into that.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I would really love to do that because I think it also like I think what we found on launch is like how much that really separated us from the pack in terms of like the purpose of this treatment is not, you know, if you have more severe breakouts, like someone like me, right?
51:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't just use continuum, like continuum helps a lot.
51:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's it's not the the only thing I'm using.
51:58
SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of people out there, just like me, probably landing your office.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: Like that was what was also helpful.
52:04
SPEAKER_02: Like you were just talking about, I remember you're talking about in-office, like, yeah, I mean, like the biggest problem is just people using something, like compliance.
52:11
SPEAKER_02: Compliance, like is a big issue, and that's part of like continuum story is like we want this to be something that people can easily comply with.
52:20
SPEAKER_02: And if we can help with the tolerability of prescription treatments, like that's huge for compliance.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: And what is the active story behind it?
52:29
SPEAKER_01: It's the um 10% of the azalic acid derivative, right?
52:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: 0.5% encapsulated salicylic acid.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: 1% encapsulated acid.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: 1%.
52:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 1%.
52:38
SPEAKER_03: We actually started at 0.5 because we wanted to be on the gentle side and during the development process just kept working our way up until we were like, here's the line.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean, speaking of philosophies, formulation philosophy, like your approach to like building this product and all of experiments, products.
52:53
SPEAKER_03: Tell the people.
52:54
SPEAKER_03: God, it's honestly like it's funny because when she was describing her like product launch um process, it's kind of similar to the way I develop products.
53:05
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm also I have ADHD.
53:08
SPEAKER_03: I I go in a million different directions when I'm formulating a product.
53:13
SPEAKER_03: That's why typically when you'll see like when we send out lab samples and it has the formulation number on it, 42.
53:18
SPEAKER_02: It's usually pretty high.
53:21
SPEAKER_02: And also just to be clear with the people, a high number doesn't mean it's automatically a better product.
53:26
SPEAKER_03: No, I'm actually like sometimes it kind of embarrasses me.
53:29
SPEAKER_03: Like the jelly was 68.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, this is we need to keep behind the scene.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: Here's the thing though, that's inside baseball, because as a marketer, I love people can't.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's so getting me so many tries to get this drive because she's stupid now.
53:46
SPEAKER_03: It's because she's so good.
53:47
SPEAKER_03: She was sectionering around the desert for a little while.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes the narrowations are just this one has 0.5.
53:54
SPEAKER_01: Also it has one point five quite the violence.
53:57
SPEAKER_03: And then sometimes halfway through, I'll be like, I hate this.
53:59
SPEAKER_03: I'm changing the kitchen system.
54:02
SPEAKER_03: Like, actually, super saturated didn't have 30% glycerin in it until like in the 40s.
54:10
SPEAKER_03: You in terms of you took the words right out of my mouth.
54:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:13
SPEAKER_02: Wasn't the for it was the 30s.
54:14
SPEAKER_02: Maybe the 30s.
54:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 40s is crazy, Emmy.
54:17
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty sure this happened really early.
54:18
SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll look it up.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, I remember this conversation.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, it was yesterday.
54:22
SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
54:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I were in the Bay Area.
54:25
SPEAKER_02: I was unfortunately in the Bay Area.
54:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, and but we were having a video call because it was COVID.
54:31
SPEAKER_02: Um and Emmy was formulating out of her kitchen in San Francisco.
54:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, she's just a girl formulating out of her kitchen with her little scale and her little fulfilling.
54:41
SPEAKER_02: And we were fulfilling out of her apartment.
54:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, I would come over periodically and we'd just sit down for hours and like pack masks masks.
54:49
SPEAKER_02: Um those were the days, man.
54:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, but we had a video call, and I remember she was like, okay, so I've been thinking about the serum.
54:58
SPEAKER_02: The the project name for that at the time was Serum X.
55:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
55:04
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
55:05
SPEAKER_02: So glad we didn't name it that because it'd be really hard to watch any other serum.
55:08
SPEAKER_02: It's still a pretty good name.
55:09
SPEAKER_02: I think it's a good idea.
55:10
SPEAKER_02: No, it's a great name.
55:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm just like, what's it?
55:11
SPEAKER_03: It could pop up at some point in time, maybe.
55:14
SPEAKER_02: I love.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: Um we called it Serum X at the time, and it was, yeah, it was the goal was still the same.
55:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do we make the best possible like hydrating serum?
55:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the concept was originally it was gonna mimic your um NMFs.
55:28
SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
55:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
55:29
SPEAKER_03: So we actually got something that was pretty good that creates you like really excited.
55:33
SPEAKER_06: Natural moisturizing faster for the audience.
55:36
SPEAKER_06: Thank you for the definition.
55:37
SPEAKER_06: It's composed of a lot of different molecules, actually.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: It's great.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: I remember we were on a video call and we were talking about product, and she was like, Okay, hear me out.
55:48
SPEAKER_02: I was like messing around with some stuff, and like this is what Emmy's talking about, the meandering, right?
55:53
SPEAKER_02: Like going in another direction.
55:55
SPEAKER_02: She's like, and I made a totally different thing.
55:56
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, um, cool.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh what is it?
56:00
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, it's kind of weird.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if people are gonna like this, but it's a glycerin concentrate.
56:06
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay.
56:08
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, 30% glycerin.
56:10
SPEAKER_02: The second she said 30% glycerin, I was like, it's old.
56:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, do you know?
56:15
SPEAKER_02: I literally started to be like, do you know how hard that's gonna hit?
56:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's gonna hit, it's gonna hit TikTok, like nothing else.
56:22
SPEAKER_02: No, because at the time, like, and I'm sure I feel like you must remember this time when like people were just starting to turn on hyaluronic acid just a touch.
56:30
SPEAKER_02: Um I felt like I was seeing a lot more content.
56:35
SPEAKER_02: A lot is actually pretty generous, but I was seeing an uptick in content around glycerin.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: Um and I had always like Emmy and I had talked about like glycerin should be the hero ingredient of this product, and it and it was in the I think it was 10% originally.
56:50
SPEAKER_02: In the previous iterations, we were we were setting it to be the hero.
56:53
SPEAKER_02: We were like, no hyaluronic acid, because we're contrarian and we're we're different.
56:58
SPEAKER_02: We're hashtag different.
57:00
SPEAKER_02: Um but I just knew I'm like, that's that is exciting.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: Like as a consumer, that instantly excited me.
57:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, as a marketer that instantly excited me, as a chemist that was exciting.
57:13
SPEAKER_02: I just remember like that's that's it.
57:15
SPEAKER_03: It's gotta be the direction.
57:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for me, like I have really dry skin, and I used to get like flaky skin every winter, without a doubt.
57:26
SPEAKER_03: And I remember when I was like on the other side as a chemist developing products for other brands, there was such a fear of heaviness.
57:37
SPEAKER_03: Like any serum had to be lightweight, quick absorbing, non-sticky.
57:41
SPEAKER_03: And that really limits how efficacious a hydrating serum can be because most hydrating ingredients are not lightweight, quick absorbing, they can be a little tacky.
57:52
SPEAKER_03: And so, as someone that struggled with dry skin, I was like, I want to feel like I'm coated in goo.
57:59
SPEAKER_03: Like that's when my skin feels like tight and dry, like that's the satisfying feeling.
58:06
SPEAKER_03: And so I kind of just like followed that instinct and it landed me at 30% glycerin.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think also it it just opened up so many opportunities to educate about glycerin and like glycerin being the backbone of so many of your hydrating products and most of your skincare products, but it's just kind of a pain in the butt to formulate with because it gets tacky as hell.
58:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's kind of where a lot of the iterations like kind of came from, it's just tweaking that finish, right?
58:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, gotta apply to damp skin.
58:40
SPEAKER_02: You have to apply to damn skin.
58:41
SPEAKER_02: It's a concentrate.
58:41
SPEAKER_02: It's a concentrate.
58:42
SPEAKER_06: I love the fact that it was almost this perfect pairing to the silicone sheet mask.
58:49
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
58:50
SPEAKER_06: Um, so like you almost continued the brand story, and I feel like I'm gonna be talking about that mask until the day that I got it.
58:57
SPEAKER_02: Someone's gotta, someone's gotta do it.
59:00
SPEAKER_02: We love that mask though.
59:01
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
59:02
SPEAKER_02: I use it all the time.
59:03
SPEAKER_06: A reusable silicone sheet mask so that you don't have to buy a bunch of different sheet masks and throw them out.
59:09
SPEAKER_06: And I don't care that people say they're biodegradable, usually they're packaged in plastic.
59:14
SPEAKER_03: Dude, they're packaged in so much plastic.
59:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's all of the packaging that's really the problem, not like the sheet mask itself.
59:19
SPEAKER_02: It's absolutely the packaging.
59:21
SPEAKER_02: And now, like, they've gone even more elaborate.
59:24
SPEAKER_02: So, like, you have like the sheet mask that's in like a plastic tray that's the little clamshell, the little clamshell, and then you also have like those those um plastic sheets in between each, so you can unfold it.
59:34
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, there's just a lot of plastic going on here for a one-time use product.
59:38
SPEAKER_02: For a one-time use product, yeah, it's a lot, and then also they're like, it has a full bottle's worth of serum in there.
59:44
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, does it does it need to?
59:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why?
59:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
59:47
SPEAKER_06: Maybe maybe you've maxed out do you know the efficacy of the series?
59:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I feel like this is a little bit silly.
59:51
SPEAKER_03: I think also like so super saturated was originally like developed with avant-garde in mind, which did make the development a little bit difficult because most like polymeric um emulsifiers would make this like feeling, like with the silicone.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_03: So we also had to like formulate around that to make sure that it still felt like juicy when you put avant-garde on top.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_03: Um feels very juicy.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_03: It feels very juicy.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_03: Where was I going with this?
1:00:21
SPEAKER_03: Oh, also because sheet masks are typically used as like a one-off thing in someone's routine, like you don't know if the ingredients are going to play well with your skin.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_03: It's very much a time where you're kind of just like slapping anything on your face.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_03: And so I liked the idea of being able to take like a soothing or hydrating serum that you already love, that you know your skin loves, and just use off on guard to like maximize the efficacy.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you're occluding it in.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_06: And one of the things I tell people is like you could use whatever serum you want, basically, that you think is gonna work well occluded so that it gets pushed in there.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_03: I just no exfoliance.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just don't, yeah, don't do that.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_06: Please don't have that.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_02: I remember I made a video and I'm like, if I see any of you using the ordinary is like 30% H A B H A serum, I'm gonna hunt you down.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_02: That's nightmare fuel.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_02: No, that's actually nightmare fuel.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I, yeah, it's the occlusion piece that I think really does it for me because it's better at avant-garde because it's 100% silicone, it's fully occlusive.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_02: So it's better at occluding than any other sheet mask because it's truly like it's blocking the evaporation fully.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_02: Like it, you know, not even petrol autumn's gonna do that, even though people like think it will.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it it really does like force feed the skin, your your serum.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_02: And like I that's why we ended up doing clinicals on it.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_02: So we did clinicals in conjunction with super saturated um and avant-garde together to measure the efficacy of the mask.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_02: So I think it increased hydration 44% in an additional 44% on top of super saturated, it's like 96% increase in baseline hydration instantly.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_02: So after a 30-minute, after one 30-minute masking session.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_02: Um we don't talk about that.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_02: We don't, we don't.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we need to trunk and around a little bit.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_02: That's really impressive.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: And also, I mean, so I have um I have Botox in my forehead right now, so shout out.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, but without that, I normally get some like dehydration fine lines.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_02: They're not static yet.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I normally get some dehydration fine lines on my forehead.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_02: Only thing that will actually like instantly after 30 minutes session, get rid of it.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_03: Instantly after 30 minutes.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_02: Instantly after 30 minutes.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_02: Literally what the clinical says instantly after 30 minutes.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_02: Um but is doing an avant-garde masking session before makeup, and that's what I do before any event because your makeup just lays so beautifully.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think I've told you, like my favorite under-eye prep step is just take supersaturated under my under eyes, let that cook for like 10 to 15 minutes, sunscreen on top, and then my under eyes, especially here where I get like the fine lines crossfeet, smooth concealer, it lays like butter.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_02: Because polyglycemic acid baby is also in there too.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_02: So it's not that surface plump.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_02: I like to do it under uh the dew eye patches.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_02: And then it really just marinate.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_02: So, like, there are also like I will um, if I'm doing work at night, um, I will sit at my computer, do my skincare, put avant-garde on, and like try to forget it's on my face, and you can um absolutely forget it's on your face.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_02: Two hours go by, and that's when it's like, we've really, we've marinated.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_02: It's good.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_02: It's like even better.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_01: You take it off and it's like oh yeah.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_02: My it's like my skin is like baby soft, okay?
1:03:51
SPEAKER_02: It is really I love that.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_02: So nice.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's like a total treat.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I do that after I might do a lot of like intense acne things.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_02: Like, um, okay, here's my cancelable skincare fans.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_03: Um it's not that bad.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_02: I think it's great, and other people think it's horrible.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I am low key a fan still to this day of the Aztec bentonite clay mask.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_06: That is like OG OG.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_06: Do you do it with the apple cider vinegar?
1:04:23
SPEAKER_06: No.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_06: Oh my god.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_02: Diluted, kind of like.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_02: I do.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_02: I do.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_02: That's my truth.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_02: I do it quarterly.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_02: Um quarterly, okay.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_06: Not very often.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm not doing it very often.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_03: I won't leave you hanging.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay, wait before we get it.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_02: And to enemies can of worms.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, I do it quarterly.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_02: And I kind of just it it says on the it says on the jar, feel your face pulsate.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_02: It do be pulsating.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_02: Um my god, because it contracts as it dries.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_02: No, thank you.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_02: It really contracts as it dries.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_02: So it's it's drawing a lot of blood to the surface.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_02: It really do be working.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_02: But the only way I can use it is if I do a crazy avant-garde, like, I use like five pumps of super.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_02: I like soak my skin in super saturated avant-garde for like an hour plus after that.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_02: That's the only I won't do it otherwise.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_02: So I have to have the time to do that.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, I won't use it.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_02: It works.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_02: I could never.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm so sorry.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_02: Just don't do it a lot.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_03: Whatever works for you.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_03: Look, you know, that's my truth.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_01: Which is not a safe space.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_01: I know.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_02: Look, that's my truth.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_02: I I use other clay masks, it's just once in a while.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_02: I crave, I crave it.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_02: It's important to me.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_02: Everyone's like, I'm judging you so hard.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_02: Crazy.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_03: All right, I didn't realize I wasn't among friends.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you mine.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_03: I still probably also on a quarterly basis will whip out the St.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_03: Ives apricot scrub.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_03: It's a satisfying one.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: It's not that big of a deal.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_03: To me, if you're not applying a crazy amount of pressure and really nice, gentle, physical exfoliant.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love a face scrub.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: I love a face scrub.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_03: I do.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_03: It's really cost effective.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_03: I typically I'll use it on my body normally, but sometimes I'm in the shower and I'm like, you're going on my face.
1:06:20
unknown: I look at it.
1:06:22
unknown: I look up and down.
1:06:22
unknown: Yeah.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_02: That's who buckle, let's say.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's how like the bentonite clay mask is in my legs.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_02: I have a closet.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_02: I have a closet, as many people do.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_02: New York.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_05: New York.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_02: We're in New York.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_02: No, the next one.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_02: We're in New York.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_02: It's in my linen closet because I have three, I have, I have three closets total in my home.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_06: We're upstate line.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_02: Middle class over here.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_02: We're the upstate life, you guys.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm from Manhattan Life.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_02: That's how it goes.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_02: Love my rent stabilized apartment and shout out pre-war.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_02: So just to flex.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_02: Just rub it in.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm rubbing it in.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_02: My rent frozen.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_06: This is your forehead.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_02: I like my rent how I like my forehead.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_06: Frozen.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_02: Shout out, Mom Donnie.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh, Mr.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_02: Mare.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_02: But I in my linen closet, I have like extra skincare.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_02: And I have the Bentonite clay mask in there.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_02: It's like calling to me whenever I open the like the green goblin mask.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's like, you want to put me on clay.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_03: It's just like sometimes I'm like, not today.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_03: She's still trying to get me to make a clay mask for experience.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_03: I do want to not like that though.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_03: Like a real clay, a real top.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_05: A real clay mask.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_05: A real.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_02: Not a crazy one.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_02: Not a crazy one.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_02: I do like the topicals clearly mask.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm a fan of that one.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_01: Heels has a really good one.
1:07:49
SPEAKER_02: Do they?
1:07:49
SPEAKER_02: Heels?
1:07:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like theirs.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_01: Global recipe makes a nice one.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_02: Gentle.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a gentle I like, I want like a chemical explorer.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, the thing with clay masks that I think a lot of people don't get is like it's kind of a temporary fix.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_06: So I always say, like before an event or something, if you want your pores to look yes.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_02: And that's why I kind of use it mostly on a quarterly basis.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_02: It's like when I'm doing like that full, like an everything shower, everything skincare routine, like that's that's the mode of operation.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_02: I've got my LED mask now, added into the mix.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, we're just going all in.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, I I've been really liking my LED mask actually.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_02: I've been convinced.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_02: I use the shark cryo.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_02: The the cryo part.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_06: The under-eye cooling, yeah.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_06: That feels good.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_06: Again, right before an event.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, it just feels good.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_02: Like it makes me use it because I'm like, I just I desire that feeling.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, okay, this is the first time I've ever been like actually consistent with my LED mask.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it worked.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_02: Glad I got it.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_02: I had one before.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, the cure, like the cue one.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_02: I got it a long time ago, and it was like the cheapest, like one for efficacy purpose.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_02: I just did not want to buy the Omnilux one, and I was just like, I can't see that right now.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_02: Um and when I wanted the shark one, Emmy's like, well, do you use your current one?
1:09:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_02: Um and she's like, well, maybe you should maybe start there.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_02: But hey, I tried turning it on and then it broke.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_01: Because it's old.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_01: So you're like, I have no choice now.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so actually, you broke it on the shark one.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_02: I didn't! You threw it on the ground.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_02: This green light keeps flashing, and I didn't bother to look up why.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_02: And it won't turn on.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_02: Hang on.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_02: So that's where I'm at.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, my favorite question to ask people is you've had a really like amazing run of great launches.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, you're in store now at Sephora, you have software at my well, top three favorite experiments, Gio.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_02: Top three.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_02: Name your three.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're gonna have to do that.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_01: Top three, super saturated.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, the original software.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_01: Continuum's up there.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_01: Continuum, I emptied one already.
1:10:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so is that number three?
1:10:05
SPEAKER_01: Maybe if not, molecular.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_01: No, plasma wash.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_03: Plasma.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_03: Thank God.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for saying that.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for saying that.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_03: She doesn't get enough love.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_03: She doesn't.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: So Jorge, my husband, everyone behind the camera knows Jorge.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, has a bunch of tattoos, and that's his preferred post-tattoo like that.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_02: Very hydrating.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_01: But I think that's my top three.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_03: It's a good top three.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_01: But I was gonna say with the tints and everything or the shades of software and all that.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_01: Um amazing run.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_01: Continues your latest launch.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_01: What's what can we get any sneak peeks as to like what's upcoming in the launch pipe?
1:10:40
SPEAKER_02: I think we can.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_02: I think we can just tell them.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_02: I'll let you take it away.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_02: We're going big for the next launch.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_02: Body?
1:10:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's not the body.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_06: Big body.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_02: Not the next launch.
1:10:53
SPEAKER_02: That's not the next launch.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_06: Oh, audio.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_02: Take that as you will.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, but we're going big for the next launch, and by big I mean like volume big.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_02: Jumbos.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_02: Jumbos.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_02: Mega jumbos.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_02: Mega jumbo, super saturated.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: Costco size, gallons.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_02: See, see, that's what people want.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_01: And maybe by that you just mean you can take a bottle of 100% pure glycerin and just slap an experiment label on it.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: That's what people are going straight to the source.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_06: You know what you should do?
1:11:23
SPEAKER_06: You should do like a the way that people do mud wrestling, you should do a super saturated wrestling match.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_03: So we've literally this conversation.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_03: Dunk tanks, uh fly.
1:11:33
SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't be dunked in a tank of super saturated so bad.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_03: Like that's my dream.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_03: I just want to be covered head to toe.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_03: I want to marinate in it.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_03: We'll make it happen.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_02: We said once we sell um a million bottles of super saturated, we will do it.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_02: And we're not as far as we thought we were.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_02: So that's we're not close.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_02: We're not close.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_02: No, but it's exponential, Emmy.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_02: It's exponential.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_02: So true.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_02: So true.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_02: So ask again tomorrow.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_02: And maybe we'll be there.
1:12:01
SPEAKER_01: One day closer.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_02: One day closer.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
1:12:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:12:04
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, we um we've we've been playing around with that idea.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_01: Next experiment event.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_01: Angelo and I are happy to just be the ones in the like kitty pool covered in the rustling.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_03: Actually, kiddie pool, we could totally fill a kiddie pool.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_03: It could be like our hired talent.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_01: Ridhing around around.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_02: Instead of like a wet t-shirt contest.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_01: If you want that to happen, double tap.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, double tap, smash that like button.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, we also we have heard the requests for body.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_03: We've heard it, received.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_01: It's me at the office.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_03: Message received.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_02: Message received.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_01: Um I feel like you guys would eat some body product.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh I actually, so yesterday, that means based camera on that close up.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_02: I think we might have done it.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_02: I think we I we got a really nice Reddit message yesterday.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_02: We on my because I'm like a Reddit message.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_02: So my my Reddit is easily identifiable, so I just lean into it.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_02: So on like skincare subreddits, I'll be like, hey, I'm the co-founder of Experiment.
1:13:08
SPEAKER_02: If someone's talking about, and they're always like, Whoa, what are you doing here?
1:13:12
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, look at my karma, girl.
1:13:13
SPEAKER_02: I've been here.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_02: Like, I've been on Reddit for 13 years.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is not this is not new for me.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_02: You're like just on my lunch break.
1:13:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just like just like hanging out, rousing.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_02: A girl can't be on skincare addiction on her own.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, but like, but um I got sometimes people will DM me because they see like an old comment.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I got a really lovely DM from um Herschel something.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, and they were just like, I need to tell you how much I love super saturated.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to say I feel like you guys would really eat up body.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, if you're doing body, I'm first in line.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh my god, like that's so funny you say that.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_02: Stay tuned.
1:13:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, so we're working on it.
1:13:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, we're working on it.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_02: Very excited.
1:13:57
SPEAKER_04: I'm very excited.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm super excited and super saturated.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm super saturated right now.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm super excited about your own.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised it's actually just an avant-garde for your feet.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_02: We've gotten that request as well.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, we've gotten like avant-garde for your hands, avant-garde for your hands, neck, um, feet.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_03: Like functionally, logistically.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_06: I mean, as a sock, it makes sense to me.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_06: The silicone sock and glove exists.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it for sure exists.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_02: And also, like, look, we've done silicone tooling before, and we never, ever, ever want to do it again.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_06: Oh my god.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_02: The tooling for avant-garde.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_02: If you're in the midst of any tooling discussions right now, imagine it ten times worse.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_02: We had to go to a very specific manufacturer.
1:14:41
SPEAKER_02: So we make it in the US, actually.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_03: And we're only two machines in the US that can make avant-garde because of the pressures and thinness.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_02: So the pressures required to inject the liquid silicone.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_02: And it's so thin.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_02: So it's like those two things combined are extremely hard to achieve.
1:14:59
SPEAKER_02: And it's a pain in the butt.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we have like the only manufacturer that can do it because the other one makes like auto parts and they weren't gonna yeah.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_02: So anyone else honestly, even if any competitor wanted to make one, go ahead.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_02: It's a pain in the ass.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_02: Like, you're not gonna want to do it.
1:15:16
SPEAKER_02: Like, I would not do it again.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_03: Wouldn't would not recommend.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was not, it was not fun, but we're so glad she's here.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes, because we're not cutting it out of silicone, it's 3D molded, so it's in a mold.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_02: That's why it fits so well.
1:15:29
SPEAKER_06: May your molds never break.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_02: They may our molds never break.
1:15:33
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
1:15:35
SPEAKER_02: Don't put that bad juju on me.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_06: Sorry.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_06: I'm like, I have my own tooling horror stories, so I identify with you.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I see you, I hear you.
1:15:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm with you.
1:15:47
unknown: Beautiful.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_06: Well, on that note, thank you so much for being here with us today.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having us.
1:15:55
SPEAKER_06: Y'all are at Experiment World.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes, without the O.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_06: Without the O on all social, right?
1:16:01
SPEAKER_06: And their socials are great.
1:16:02
SPEAKER_06: You should check them out.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_06: Very informative, not just salesy.
1:16:05
SPEAKER_06: Right.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_02: And funny, I might add, especially on Instagram.
1:16:09
SPEAKER_02: We do not, I when brands sometimes post memes, I'm like, Do I try?
1:16:15
SPEAKER_02: We don't need to do it.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_02: But we only post them if they're funny and they're objectively funny.
1:16:20
SPEAKER_02: So they are objectively.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
1:16:22
SPEAKER_02: Humor is objective.
1:16:23
SPEAKER_02: Humor is very objective.
1:16:25
SPEAKER_06: And uh love that.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_06: Um, and on that note, we leave you obviously wherever you listen or watch Divine Skin Intervention, give us the thumbs up or the five-star rating or whatever it is.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_06: And we'll we'll see you next time.
1:16:39
SPEAKER_06: Subscribe.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_06: Subscribe, yes, thank you.
1:16:41
SPEAKER_02: Yes, always subscribe.
1:16:42
SPEAKER_02: Bye.
1:16:43
SPEAKER_02: Bye.