Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / #89 - Hawk Call - 2025 Trail Team Elite Selection

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#89 - Hawk Call - 2025 Trail Team Elite Selection · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, fam?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to welcome the Trail Team Elite Team for 2025 to the podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Over the next week or so, I'm going to start rolling out interviews with each of the new eight members of the Trail Team Elite Team.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We're going to start off this week.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: We're going to kick it off with none other than Mr Hawk Call.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Kid Dynamite uh, kid dynamite man.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Big fan of Hawk calls um, got to watch Hawk call last year actually dominate and win the Cirque series.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Uh, grand Targi race Um, he actually also took the win at the speed go 28 K.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Um, hawk's been on a tear.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I mean very, very solid mountain runner.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Um, the son of absolute legend, probably the best ever.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Do it in the OCR scene.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Mr Hobie call yeah, it's pretty crazy to see like how Hawk is just like taken to the sport and really grown over the last few years and I'm so excited for what he's going to be able to do.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: He's got his eyes set on the Golden Trail series for this year.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: He's already had amazing finishes at the Broken Arrow 23k over the last few years.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't be surprised to see him take a podium finish or a top 10 as well at Broken Arrow this year, if not win the damn thing.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be fun to follow along.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Big fan of Hawk Calls, hope you guys enjoy this episode.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Hope to have him on again after the season for more to talk about.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Without further ado, none other than Mr Hawk Hall.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I'm out of here, ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Listen up, guys.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: The Steep Stuff Podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA Guys, I am so excited.
• 2:34
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• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Hawk call Welcome to the steep stuff podcast.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: How are you, man Good, how are you?
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, I'm doing great.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I'm super excited.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I've had finally have a chat with you.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Dude, congratulations on on making it onto the trail team elite squad for this year.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: And, dude, I've been wanting to have a conversation with you since last year.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: You whooped my ass at uh cirque series.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: What was it, grand targi?
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: You had a great race there.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, wyoming yeah yeah, ever since then I was like man, I gotta get this kid on the podcast.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Like you really like, like ran a great race.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Like you beat a michelino sinceri like just before he ran the grand teton.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: So, like you, you bit beat some fit dudes.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: So anyway, dude, how's your day going?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: it's good.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Just got off work where it wasn't too bad, but it was all right.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Work is work.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: You know you got to do what you got to do.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So it's true, it's true, training going well, everything on that end, yeah.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was dealing with some Achilles issues towards the end of last season and then kind of throughout the winter a little bit.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: It was just kind of coming and going.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, training's ramping back up though, starting to get back up to full mileage and workouts again, and so it's yeah, I'm feeling good, I'm excited for the year what you got planned.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Before we dive into it, maybe give like a little like a five minute elevator pitch on, like your running background and you know, just like your relationship with the sport of running.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I think you have a very unique story, especially given like how like storied your dad is in the sport and like all these different things.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: So dive into that.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I started.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I started really running in like high school like most people, and so before that I do a little running here and there, but mainly just kind of for the fun of it, and we had a family rule where, like, we weren't allowed to play any video games or electronics before we had a workout of the day and I just chose running as my workouts and so that's kind of how it started, um.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: But then, yeah, after that, uh, high school, uh, I ran for a Stansbury high out in Tooele County in Utah, um, and had a ton of fun.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I really liked the coach out there, had a good time.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Um, ended up performing well enough at a couple of state meets that I got recruited by UVU over in Orem in Utah Valley and so I ran cross country and track and field for them for a few years.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And then when I finished up there, then I did a little bit of OCR stuff like Spartan, tough Mudder, that kind of stuff, and so I did about a year, yeah, about a year or so, of OCR racing, with like kind of some trail racing thrown in there.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: But like my main focus was like Spartan and it just didn't really I don't know, it just didn't really go well.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Like well, I guess I should take that back.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: It did go well.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I was, I was performing well, I was winning races and I was having fun.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: But Spartan just kind of isn't really at a time right now with like their elite athletes to where like it's a focus of theirs, and so it just kind of, I don't know, I got drew towards the trail racing, cause I mean, it's just getting more and more popular these days, it's exploding and there's a lot of really good elite athletes in the field now and so it's just super competitive and fun and so kind of got drawn away from OCR into mainly trail racing.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Uh, for this last summer, uh, and then this year I was like, well, I had a really good time last year, so I'm just going to do the same thing.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: But nice man dude, your improvement has been crazy, like you know, you started off you had you raced what speed goat in 2023 had a top 25 performance which was lights out, I mean even for yeah being so young and then, like you, just started putting it together last year.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like I said, some great you know great circ series, few great circ series results and then, like a like smashing the speed goat 28k, um, like dude yeah, you really put it together, man.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: It's impressive, to impressive to see, like you know, like how you've, you've just really started learning and getting significantly better, Like when the matter of like a couple of years, which is, you know, very exciting to see.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, maybe let's, let's dive a little bit more back into your like college at years.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Like what did you specify in on the track?
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Like, were you a middle distance guy?
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Or, like the mile, a miler?
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Like what did you?
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: What'd you do?
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I?
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: was a distance guy, yeah, yeah.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: So back in college, um at a cross country obviously, which is eight Ks, 10 Ks, um, the typical, you know, collegiate D, one experience, um.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, in track and field I did the um three K, five K, uh and steeplechase.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: And so three K, steeplechase, Um.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And then I never, I never actually did run a 10 K on the track, um, I don't know why it just I don't know, it just never happened.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I guess I don't know I really have a good reason for that Um.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, lots of five Ks, lots of steeplechase, those were typically the two races that I focus on during track season.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: And then the um, the three K for the for the indoor track season.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, it was, it was fun.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed track um more so cross country Um.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was a good time.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I really liked running a UVU and I think I got my, my five K down to a 1442 on the track, which nothing insane, insane, but it was a good.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: You know, it set me up well for trail racing and for running outside of college.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: But that's what I was gonna say is like most fast trail guys are somewhere underneath that like 50, that 15, a little, a little underneath 15 every now and then like I think mason kopey is like a sub 14 guy, but like there's not too many of them floating around like there's that's, that's a solid 5K time dude.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Jesus, I'm curious about, like the area you live in.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Just because there's like is it Christian Allen's?
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Not that far away, there's a lot of really talented athletes in your area.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Did that play any role, and does it continue to play a role, in like training to be able to train with any of these guys, or is it more so just kind of like training by yourself, like how does that work?
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in the in the beginning, uh, like the first couple of years it was definitely I hadn't really, you know, gotten to really meet any of these guys, I hadn't done many races with them, and so I didn't really have any friendships you know with with the trail community um, especially coming from OCR.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Like there's not a whole lot of OCR racers in like the Utah area, um, it's pretty spread out Um, and so for the first couple of years it was mainly just training alone.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I would do pretty much 90, 90, 95% of my training solo.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Um, and then, or I have a good friend from high school too that I've run with as well, um, but yeah, none of the other you know, like, like Christian, et cetera, um, but then this past year though, uh, once I'd raced them a couple of times, we kind of become a little closer and more friends Um the over the summer months we usually will meet up for a few workouts, um, try to meet up, maybe like once a week, once every other week, and so, honestly, we don't do a ton of our training together, especially over the winter.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Because, for Christian, for example, like he really went after the marathon this year and with me dealing with my Achilles stuff over the winter months, like I couldn't put up that kind of mileage and those kind of workouts right now.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Months like I, I couldn't put up that kind of mileage, um, and those kind of workouts right now.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, over the winter months it's pretty separate, but over the summer months, when the trail season really hits, then we we usually meet up at least once, uh, every other week or so for either like a long run or some sort of tempo run or like or fkt on strava or you know, just some some kind of training run like that.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like he's a little bit older.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: He's going through the process where he's now with Nike and he's a big name in the sport.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Has it been a little bit more of a mentor for you as well, as you've started to develop?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was super awesome watching him just go out Back to that reference of that speed go 50K in 23, 24, whenever that was, that was the year he won.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the year he won and I mean, he just blew me out of the water.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Like the first like half of that race, I was like, okay, let's just see how close I can keep with the top guys.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: And then, like I was like, okay, let's just see how close I can keep with the top guys.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: And then like and I was not ready for that 50K Like that was the first 50K I'd ever done and with that much elevation and you know, and that kind of a race like it just it destroyed me, but it was super awesome seeing him just absolutely crush that race though.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And so after that race there, I was definitely like, okay, I want to make more of an effort, to like to get to know this guy, to train with him a little more often, especially since he lives so close and so it's always hard to match up schedules, like you know, when you both have full-time jobs.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Like you know, you want to be a professional athlete, but in the end, so not many not many people actually make, you know know, affordable money off of that, and so you've still got your full-time jobs and your families and all of that, and so it's.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to match up, match up training schedules, but after that race, though, I definitely made more of an effort to be like, okay, I want to train with this guy, like he's absolutely killing it, and he's continued to kill it, and so, yeah, over those summer months I definitely make an effort to run with him as often as I can, but again, a lot of the time it just comes down to schedule of work and family and that kind of stuff.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's amazing dude.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: All right, I want to transition a little bit here.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to bury the lead too much.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Like your, your dad is like the probably the goat of ocr in a lot of ways like literally probably the great, like hobie calls like the greatest to ever do it.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: What, what is that like having like your dad being, like like coming up and like your dad's like a extremely, if not like the most well-known ocr athlete that ever lived?
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Like what is that like?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Like in a house?
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Like that like do you hold yourself like I have to hold myself to like high standard, especially as an athlete, or is it like I'm just kind of curious what that was like growing up?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Like where is?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: it yeah yeah, what is that you tell me?
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, like, I guess there's kind of there's kind of two perspectives to it.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Like there's the when I was a kid and like seeing him at the races and like seeing how, how popular he was and how everyone you know wanted to come up and meet him and get their picture, and like all that.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And then there was the um, the, like the at home perspective, where it was like you know, like I said, like he worked a full-time job, he'd get up early, he'd get home, he'd work out, he'd get ready for bed and repeat you, you know, like that's, that's what you have to do to be a high professional athlete.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Like you have your schedules that you got to stick to, and you know, et cetera, et cetera.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: And so there's kind of the two perspectives to it.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: But from, yeah, from an at home perspective, though, I mean he had an insane work ethic that, like I definitely admire and try to, like you know, live up to for sure.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: And, like I said, he'd get up early, he'd go work his full time job, he'd come home, he would always be happy to go and work out.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: One thing that I definitely learned from him was like it's not like a have to.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: It's a get to kind of thing.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: You know, like a lot of the time when you get home from work you're just kind of like, oh, like that was a crappy day, or like I'm exhausted.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: You know all these excuses come into your head.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Or or it's 95 degrees outside and it's five o'clock in the afternoon.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: You know, like, how am I going to do this?
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: It's like Hobie was 100 percent like he'd get home.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: He had a smile on his face, he's excited and happy to go and do it, not like a okay, I have to go and get this done, kind of thing.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: And so that was, that was, and you know, everything's fun and everyone's so glad to see each other.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: It's like there's that's a very small percentage of, you know, of the whole year that goes into it, um, and so yeah, there's.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that really answered your question, but it does, it does.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I mean I just couldn't think of a better role model and someone to like, because that's the thing.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Like trail running, I think specifically trail and mountain running is a very blue collar sport in a lot of ways.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Like you don't make a ton of money, it's a very like you gotta like if you want to get good at it, you gotta grind.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Like you have to be extremely dedicated, more dedicated than cause.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: You know your, your competitors are dedicated, right.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: So it's like, how do I get that edge?
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just couldn't think of like a.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: It's like a such a good role model for someone so young to be able to like come up in the sport and kind of get to see like, oh well, this is how I do it, you know it's pretty cool.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about the trail team.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: You were a selection this year, which I was so stoked that Andy selected you and he's got an eye for talent.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Call him like one of the best, uh talent scouts in the sport, if not the best.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Um, how excited are you?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Man like this is a really big opportunity, really big deal.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, like, what are your thoughts, uh, for being selected for the 2025 elite team yeah, yeah, I'm super stoked.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I um, I applied for the 2024 team um, but after like the the um the year before that, I was like I'd had, um, some good races, but like nothing crazy, nothing really like outstanding, and so I wasn't too surprised when I didn't get selected.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I was like I know that, like, like you said, he's got a good eye for talent and so he picks the guys that you know are performing well and that he thinks will continue to perform well, um, and so when I got the opportunity, after all the racing of last year, to apply again, I was like, okay, like I think I have a better chance of getting selected this year.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Um, and so, yeah, when I did, I mean I was, I was super stoked.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I was like there I was able to, after like the first half of the season last year, um, I was able to get to know them a little better and then also do like a little bit of traveling with them for some of the later races in the year.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, like even before I got selected, I had gotten to know them a little bit, traveled with them a little bit, and I mean they're just, they're just so excited and happy to be there, and so it's like it's a great group to be with, because obviously you want to be surrounded by like minded people that are also excited and happy to be there.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And so it's like it's a great group to be with, cause obviously you want to be surrounded by like-minded people that are also excited and pushing themselves to the limits and, you know, the weekend and week out and doing everything that they can, and this team is definitely one of those, one of those kinds of groups, and so, yeah, I'm excited for the year.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to do some more traveling and racing with them and and yeah, and to compete with them.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, the guys that got selected this year are.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: They're super good athletes, and so it's going to be.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: It's going to be really fun to you know both.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: You know race with them and compete with them.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: It's like yeah it's going to be fun.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I'm excited.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, I love it.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about the selection process?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: So I actually don't know this and probably I've never actually asked Andy like how it works.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Like, is it it's just an application to see interview you guys after, like, how does that work?
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so they have.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: So basically, you build like your race or running resume, you know, like like you typically would, and then you kind of you send that in um and he has just like a an application for you to fill out, has just like an application for you to fill out, and then if you get selected down to, I want to say maybe it's the final 15 applicants or 10.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what the exact number is, but then you just have like a Zoom, you know, interview with them, with Andy, and then after that then it goes to a board of it's like four or five people I think that they had on the board this year.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Then they get together and they make the final decisions.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: These are the top three men, these are the top three women, or however many they decide to bring on for that year.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Just submit an application, have an interview, have an interview to kind of get to know each other face to face a little bit, and then it goes to a board.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: So I like the way he does that, cause it's like kind of in a lot of ways, obviously it's kind of like how sponsorships come about right, like it's the same concept as like being able to pitch yourself, submitting a deck or submitting your resume, if you will, and then having conversations from there and then usually it goes through.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: You know a few people until you get you know more or less, you start to haggle and get negotiations.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: So it's I like the way he does that, cause it's kind of like the start concept of like how sponsorships actually come to be, which is cool.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: So it kind of gets you guys primed for that next level when, when it starts to come, so that's cool.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Um, all right, so I know you're excited for racing.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I'm stoked to see you race this year.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I think you're, you're primed for a fantastic season.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe let's let's talk about what you got planned.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Um, I know you said you were going to open up the season with a golden trail series race.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: So you tell me which?
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: one you're going to be going to.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I'll have the.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, the first trail race of the year will be the one in italy, the I can't remember the full name of it like the isola or isola, how do you pronounce it?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, in may, um, so that'll be the first one, and then, after that, uh, we'll go to broken arrow again, uh, and then we'll also have some golden trail series race or, uh, not called a cirque series.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: We'll have some cirque series races thrown in there again too.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Uh, just because I had such a good time with them last year, they throw on such an amazing event and they're also they have a lot of local ones, and so they're great.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: They're just great filler races.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: They're so much fun.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: We'll throw in a few of those again as well.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: And then, I think, the last for the Golden Trail.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: My main focus this year is the golden trail series.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I want to make it to the world finals, um, and so the third one um that I plan on going to is, um, the one in, I think it's in austria.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in, like in august, yeah, I think it's austria.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And glacier glacier trail one.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah that one that's a sweet looking.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I know they haven't released the course yet, but just like some of the photos from the initial course, like glacier travel and stuff like that looks really sick.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's gonna be cool.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they all I mean they all look awesome like you.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: You look at each individual race that they've hosted in this series and they all look like so much fun, dude, I'd love to see you in like a series in all, too, if you can get in Like that would be sick.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be really fun too, maybe next year.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking with this year like this is just what's going to fit.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I chose specifically these three races.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's what's going to fit with my schedule, the best for this year, and give me a good chance at getting into the.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember if it was like the top 30 in the point system.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, top 30 in the point system, it gets invited to the final.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I'm hoping, with those three races, um, that'll set me up in a good position to get into the finals at the end of the year, um.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: And then, so, yeah, golden trail series will be my main focus, with some cirque series, and then I may have some other kind of random mods and end races thrown in there as well, but those will be the main, the main points so I really like it, do you?
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: maybe you could talk to a little more like this because, like you've kind of taken a sequential step each year.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Like last year you had a big year and like pretty much on the national scene, like you you were very dominant.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: What do you think you learned from that that you think you can take Cause this is, you know, the international scene is is the most competitive on the planet, like the golden trails series, Like what do you think you can take into that for the learned last year that you can apply to have some success?
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, honestly, I think probably the biggest thing that I learned from last year um is that you have to be confident to start out fast, like the what's something that I really struggled with the first year round.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: It was like I had this idea that, like this is trail racing.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Like you're going to go up and down, up and down, you know five different times, like if you go out too hard you're going to die and also the people that are going out so hard in front of you are going to die.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And like, and I just I realized through trial and error that like that's just not true to be true, but it's not.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I was like it's just the field has just gotten so competitive now and people have gotten so good at being able to, you know, redline certain sections.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Like, let's say, you're a really good downhill runner.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Then, like you, yeah, cut and dry, simple.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Um, as as the thought process of, like if I start out, you I'll pick people off as I go, like you got to start out hard, the middle is hard, the end is hard, like there is no, they're kind of in road racing.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: You kind of get to settle into a pace and you're like, okay, this is what I can handle, this is what I know I can handle, and so I'm not going to push it, push that envelope too hard.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: But in trail racing, like, it's almost like the exact opposite.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Like you have to push that envelope because you're you know, other people are going to recover better on the down or other people are going to recover better on the up, and it's like you have to be willing to go back and forth on that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: It's like a continuous battle, um, and so, yeah, I think that's probably the main thing that I learned, um, and then also just getting getting the experience of racing last year, like, like I said, I came from ocr before and so, while ocr is still mainly mountain focused running, um, you still have the obstacles to kind of break it up.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: And I remember in races last year being like man, if only there was a sandbag carry right now, like I would catch that.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: You know that second and third place that are just dusting me right now.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I was like I could catch them.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I know I like I catch myself having those thoughts, like as I was doing the trail races, and so, yeah, like there's just there's just a lot to learn and you just got to be patient with it.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Like the first year that I was doing mainly trail racing, like I would.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Just every race I went into I was like, okay, like I'm in such good shape, this is going to be the one.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And it just never really quite clicked and like as frustrating as it was, like it's just you know every minor lesson, like you gotta be as frustrating as it was, it's just a reminder lesson.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: You've got to be patient.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: You've just got to keep on working at it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: One day it is going to click and you're going to find your groove.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Then you can really start clicking off those races and getting some good times and competing against some of the best guys in the world.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I've still got a long ways to go, for sure.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've still got a long ways to go for sure.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Like there's still there's still quite the gap between, like you know, the 10th guy in the race and the first guy in the race, like those top three to four guys.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Like they still definitely have that level.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: It's another level.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: It really is like you, yeah, like the times from fourth place to second and first, so like they can be minutes, you know, and it's like it's there's still definitely a whole nother level that needs to be pushed.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: But I mean, we're working on it though.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like the US is definitely getting better and they're definitely closing that gap, but there's there's still another level that needs to be reached, but we're definitely getting closer, so, and it's super exciting to see and to be a part of.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: So, dude, you're right on the precipice of breaking through.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Like you're right there, it's going to.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Like I would not be surprised, you know, if you roll up some huge results this year.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: It's going to be exciting to follow.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this You're so you're signed up for sunopi, dude, and oh yeah, I forgot about that one.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: That's a selection.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: That's a selection, that's a big one.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what are your?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Like, if you, uh is your, is like a goal floating out there to possibly represent team usa oh for sure, yeah, no, that's, that's the only reason I'm going like, yeah, I, yeah, um.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Last year, um, I signed up for the first Cirque series, the Snowbird, the USATF Championships, thinking that, or, under the time that I signed up, that was the qualifier race for the USA team, which is the whole reason I signed up.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, my entire goal was like I want to place top two, I want to get onto the US team, like that's one of the main focuses of this year.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I want to place top two, I want to get onto the U S team, like that's one of the main focuses of this year.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Um, and then it wasn't until after the race had finished that someone that they told me like oh, no, like it got changed to the race the week before.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Um, like it's no, like it's no longer the top two, and I was like, oh man, like that's a bottle that sucks, sucks.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I was like it was still a really great day and a really great race, so like I couldn't be upset, but at the same time, I was like man, like that that was the whole reason I signed up for this race in the first place.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Um, and so this year I, I'm, yeah, I'm back for redemption.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'm gonna, I'm gonna be at the right race this year to get those qualifying standards and uh, yeah, I mean the whole reason I'm going is is to take top two and to get that, um, to get into that USA team, so okay, have you ever been out like, played or played around on the East coast trails?
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Like it's a little bit, uh, tom, tom Hooper likes to call it it's so East coast or something like that.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I forgot how he says it, but yeah, it's they're different.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit different.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've raced out in.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember the name.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: It was like I had an OCR race in.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: I know there's one in.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Killington 22?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I did the one in Ontario, canada, up at Blue Mountain I think, and so I raced like that was a very, yeah, very green, luscious mountain kind of thing.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that'll relate to New Hampshire.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're somewhat close to each other, but not super close, so I don't know.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: We'll see.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Do you think you're going to stick around for the week and do Canon the next weekend?
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Cirque series Canon, which is in in New Hampshire as well.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: The Cirque series.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: It's also the.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's also the way for broken arrow, so I yeah I was yeah, I wasn't planning on it, I was thinking about it.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: But yeah, for that exact reason, I was like I don't want to.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I don't want to race three, three weekends in a row, that close to the beginning of the season, like kind of want to try to save myself a little for the end of the season this year.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: So but but yeah.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: So I was like I could I mean I probably could race two weekends in a row.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I was like, but I, I don't want to push it.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm just going to stick with.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Stick with New Hampshire for the USA qualifier, and then broken arrow.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I would.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I really am excited to see what broken arrow this year I last I saw you finish what the hell was it like?
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: 20 might have been 23, 2023, I think.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: I saw you finish the 23k and then last year you got what?
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Sixth.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: So you've moved up every year, like this year is obviously going to be the most competitive one because it's a gold, like proper golden trail series race.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: But you know the course, you know I I don't, dude, I'd be betting on you.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I think there's there's some good opportunities there.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: You know it's a show up.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I'm.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I really liked that course Um the first year I was there.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Because of the weather conditions, we didn't actually get to do the original course and yeah, it was two loops and so I was bummed about that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Um, but this last year, though, I mean I was bummed about that, but this last year, though, I mean it's, it's such a brutal but beautiful course, like it's.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of fun and, like you said, the competition is insane.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, the best of the best show up at that race, so it'll be.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be awesome, I'm hoping.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, last year my goal was top eight and I reached that, and so this year I'm shooting for top five.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Um, I was like I was one stop the podium last year and I was like man, uh, you know so close, but so far.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: And so this year, yeah, this year the goal is top five.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, we'll see.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I mean it's going to be super competitive.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: So I'm excited.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to see right Dude it's going to be that week is gonna be nuts man.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I like just so much energy.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be just crazy, especially with the ascent too, like the ascent's gonna be just bananas are you?
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Not.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Are you on the start line for the?
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna be on the at the ascent or no?
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: just no, I was, I wasn't planning on doing the ascent.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, honestly, my, my, my main strength and trail running is probably the descent, the downhills.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: And so I was like, in all uphill race I could do fairly well, but not as good as I could compete in the 23K, so I'm just going to save the weekend for the 23K.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I was like that's my main focus, that's the one that I want to try to get points towards the Golden Trail Series, and so, yeah, it's.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know, my uphill has gotten stronger over the years but it's still definitely not my strength.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: And so in all uphill race I'm like, ah, I don't know, not not really too interested in that, but maybe someday though maybe someday I'll do one, just to just cause you gotta know, you know, you gotta try to find out.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, just because you gotta know, you know you gotta try to find out, and so yeah, no, you're one day, you're totally right.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I think your uphill is pretty solid.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Like I remember at targi, like when you put the moves on on I was at michelino and talon, I was like super impressed.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: It's like damn that's not bad that, that's that that targi one was awesome.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Like I don't think I've ever had so much back and forth at the top end before that race, the three of us, we just kept on going back and forth, back and forth on the ascent, even the ascent.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I'm drawing a blank on his name right now.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I'm drawing a blank on his name right now, zach.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was the one that he hit the peak before.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Anyway, he was the first guy to hit the peak.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Zach was straight in front.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know that, yeah, Zach was like.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: So it was me, Zach and the guy with the long curly hair.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: He placed second.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: He placed right behind me at the Grand Targhee race.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I'm drawing a blank on his name too.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I thought Talon was up there with you guys in Michelino.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, it was me the curly I can't remember what his name is and then Zach that was the top three, but anyways, the three of us we kept on going back and forth on the ascent, and then Zach's yeah, zach's ascent is really good and he got to the peak before us.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: And then, as soon as we hit that downhill though I was like all right, this is a short race I was like I got to bomb this, like if I'm going to win this, like I got to go now.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: And so I caught him, like right around when you hit the kind of the zigzags back down and out where it turned into the single track.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: And then that's where.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: That's where I took the lead of the race, but it was yeah, that was a crazy race.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: There was so much back and forth for yeah, for a trail race, there was so much back and forth.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun, yeah, it's a good course.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: It's not enough vertical for me, like it's just like I don't think it was only 2 000 feet, like I wish we had more yeah, there's not a ton, not not quite as much as um like alta is my race, I love alta that's my favorite one um, yeah, I didn't do alta last year, but maybe I'll hop into it.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll hop into it this year, though does it have even more than snowbird?
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: I think snowbird is three, three something.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, snowbird has almost four.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great course too.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Snowbird's sick yeah, it's a fun one too yeah, yeah I got totally derailed here I started talking about that dude, I'm curious to see like your, your relationship with like competition, especially like having grown up around it, like are you an extremely competitive person, like oh yeah oh, let's hear it.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Tell me like on a level of like one to psycho like where do you, where do you stand?
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not quite psycho like it, I'm only psycho about some things.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: But I'm not like one of those people like, no matter what I'm doing, I have to be the absolute best, like that's that psycho.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I'm probably.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: You know, if psycho's a 10, I'm probably like maybe a 7 to 8 and then.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: But then on things that I care about, I I'm like I want to be the best, obviously, and so.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: So yeah, but on on, you know, it really depends on what it is Like.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I've had my days in let's take pickleball, for example.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I have had my days in pickleball where I'm, like you know, ready to freaking, break the paddle over your knee, kind of thing, like.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: So I have my moments, no doubt but what, uh, what shoes do you like to run in Like, what's your, what's your favorite shoe right now?
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my go-to, my go-to trail shoe right now is the um, the new balance.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Trying to see if I have them in here, I can't remember what they're called.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: They're the New Balance Trail Racer.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: So, like they have the.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, one second, I know I've got it here.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: It's for the roads Because obviously over the winter months I do a lot more road running because the trails are just destroyed in Utah.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's always snow or rain or something.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And so for the roads, right now I really enjoy the, the Saucony line, so like the endorphin speeds, the pros, the elites, that kind of stuff for, like for speed work and and and like racing, et cetera.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: But for the trails, I really like the new balance fuel cells.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the new balance fuel cell sc trail.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool dude, I didn't even know that was a like they how about that new balance?
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: no, I I didn't know either until, uh, a friend of mine, blaze, got a pair and he was like I think you would like these.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, and so they're on sale.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: So I was like, why not?
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Might as well try them?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and I tried them and I, freaking for training, like technically it's a racer shoe, but it's not.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: It's not built like most other racer shoes, it's not like as crazy and aggressive.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: And so I yeah, I, I love it for training right now.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Like they're super comfortable and they don't have a high stack height, which for me, like I don't understand how people run trail races in high stack shoes.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Like I feel so just unstable, like I like to feel low, centered to the ground, you know, and so like, like, for example, the the adidas terex racing shoe I'm like the stack height on those things is like it's like a road marathon shoe.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like how do people it's an ankle break.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Wait to happen yeah like how do you whip around corners in that sucker?
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Like I don't understand it.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I wore him for one race and then I haven't worn him since.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I was like no, I rolled my ankle too many times.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I was like I'm not, not going back yeah, yeah, dude, other than that, I also really like the solomons.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Solomon has really good trail shoes, and so I like those as well.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: But nice dude.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I I'm interested to hear.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I've never heard like I got to check out the new balance and see what they got going on yeah, that's cool.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: I, yeah, I like them, they're nice, they're the um.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're these guys okay yeah, like a bright.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: They're like a bright green and yeah, they're just new balance fuel cell sc trail, so I like them a lot.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: They're really good for training yeah, there you go.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: All right, dude.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I want to talk more about the trail team a little bit.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I really like about it is the um is the mentorship component.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Um, what are you excited about that part like, are you looking forward?
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Do they?
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Has andy told you who the new mentors are going to be this year?
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: You don't have to tell them on the podcast, because we don't think it's been announced yet, but I, yeah, we've got.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, we talked about it a little bit, but I haven't actually talked with any of them, uh, or met any of them yet, and so, yeah, as far as the mentorship program goes, like I'm right now I don't know a whole lot about it.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: To be honest, I was like I haven't, yeah, I haven't.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure if he's announced who it is yet.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he hasn't said it yet.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I'm just curious.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like to me I don't know as an athlete, like if you were an athlete coming up in the sport like that, I think that's such an amazing component.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Right Is to be able to connect with these.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: You know, like I know, in the past he's had Grayson Murphy, like Adam Peterman, you know, some of the biggest names in folks have gone through the same exact stuff that you're going through and just understand it like in a much more intimate way.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: So I think that's like such a key component to like progression and getting better and learning more about the sport and stuff.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: It's pretty cool.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree, it is really cool and I'm and I'm excited to meet them and talk with them, like it's.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: It's really helpful to, like you said, talk with people that have gone through what you've gone through.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I mean, whether that's just general running and racing advice or as specific, as you know, what do I need to do to amp up my resume so that companies you know are are attracted to you know, like, how do I, how do I help build my sponsorship and stuff like that?
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, it's, I'm excited.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: It's a delicate dance.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I'm excited for you to kind of like start going through that process after, after this year and start like, uh, like, in different brands, cause like the reason I say is cause I'm so excited man Like Brooks is like it'd been investing so much on like the sub ultra side.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: A lot of brands have been like like more so, like pushing their investment in sub ultra, which I like.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Do you?
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Are you like career wise, like, is that something you think you're going to chase for a while?
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Is more sub ultra?
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Or are you like ultra curious, like what?
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: What's like, what distances like excite you right now?
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: I.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: I definitely gonna stick with the sub ultra for for at least a while, but you've got talent like supreme at it, so yeah like it's just I don't know talking about it, yeah, like it's just I don't know, it's kind of like how on the road, it's how, like in the half marathon, you're able to push yourself like so hard the whole time.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: But then in the marathon, like you've got to kind of pace yourself Like I like the sub-ultra scene on the trails, Like just being able to, you know, even if it's as short as a Cirque race, like up to you know 23, 28 K of like the golden trail races, like they're just short enough to where you can push yourself so hard the whole time, and it's like it's just so much fun, like you can just be sprinting down these Hills and being like this is what I have to do to win, you know, like it's not even an option.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Like if you want to compete and you want to win, like you have to go fast the whole time, um, and that's just so much fun to me, like I love running fast, Um.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: And then I also think that maybe the 50 K as speed goat kind of scared me off from that just a little bit.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Like that was just such a brutal experience that I was like man, like these shorter races even though they're still so hard, like there it's just so much more enjoyable, um, and then another really big part of it is, uh, to jump up to the ultra scene.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Like you have to have more time to train, yeah, and like with working a full-time job, like I'm already up at you know, I'm up at 4 30 AM to work out, and then I go to work all day and then I work out again in the afternoon and then I eat dinner and I go to bed.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: It's like I don't even know where I would.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I don't even know where I'd fit more time in my day to get those extra miles that that you just are essential to bumping up to another distance, um.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, there's kind of multiple reasons, but mainly it's it's just enjoyment of the sub ultra races, like they're just so much fun and they're getting so much more competitive that it's like I feel like in the past there was kind of more of a desire and a need because for one, there was more money in the ultra, and then for two, that's where, like that's where the competition went, like when they did really good at the sub ultra, then they're like, okay, it's time to go to the next level.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Now I feel like there's no need to go to the next level anymore, like people are staying in the sub ultra scene and just getting faster and faster and faster and just more and more competitive.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, well, I, you know, if I don't need to jump, I'm not going to.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Like I, I like the races I'm doing now and it's extremely competitive and it's getting more popular, and so I just want to, I just want to help that grow.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Honestly, oh, I love that answer, man.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's especially for someone like me that follows and like, like, covers the sport like.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: The biggest question I'm asking all the time is like why in america are we so ultra centric, like sub ultra?
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah and this is like I mean listen, ultra is really cool and exciting it is yeah, I love our sport and I'm not saying anything bad about it.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying that like sub ultra is just so much like for me as an athlete, like dude, how much fun is it to train your ass off and then go smash yourself at a race Like it is?
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it is like I don't know what that endorphin hit is like I don't know, like like anything else like that in life.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, like I find sub ultra to be so much more attractive because it's like these.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Not only are the distances approachable for, like a newcomer to the sport right, you've got the 10k mountain classic distance, you've got vks, just things like that but like you have the ability to just get everything out of yourself if you push yourself super hard.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, I'm saying that ultra is this.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: It's just a different type of pain, I think, and yeah, for sure and I think the one thing that, like, we plan to do better is, like from a media perspective, is like storytelling, like being able to tell your guys's stories better, so that way, like you're a more relatable character and the sport to someone that would be an ultra or, you know, the average person I think that's something we haven't done very well in sub ultra is to be able to tell the stories of these athletes, and I think that's something like with more improvement and as the sport develops and grows, like they'll be like a stronger american contingent.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: That like like a fan base, if you will, for these athletes.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: That makes it kind of easier to follow along because, yeah, that's what we're missing, man, we need a bigger fan base.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: like in the euro scene is so crazy, like these people um you know, like they'll these people hike up in races in the middle of like zagama and stuff like that and they're ringing their cowbells and it's like a whole big thing and I'm like we need that in the States, like that needs to happen.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you this You're like, dude, you're a structured guy and you're young.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Like, how do you like that?
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Like, as far as, like you know, you could be hanging out with your friends, but instead you're working a full-time job and you're training your ass off like morning, noon and night.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Like how much excitement do you get out of that?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Like, you sound like a very driven, stoked guy to go perform, like to go perform and pursue this goal.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Like is that?
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Is that what that's about?
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Like what that is?
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Or like you tell me.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I love like, I mean I'm not gonna, you know, lie and be like, oh, getting up at 4.30 brings me pure joy.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Everyone has their days when they're like, oh man, the alarm goes off and you're like I didn't sleep well last night, et cetera, et cetera.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: But no, at the end of the day, I really, really enjoy working out hard and pushing myself day in and day out and it just brings a whole different level of satisfaction, like when I make a plan at the beginning of the week and be like, okay, like this is the mileage I'm going to hit, these are the workouts I'm going to do.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: You know, these days I'm getting up at this time, et cetera, et cetera.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: And then, once that plan has been made, then, like, if I stick with that until the end of the week, it just brings a deeper level of satisfaction than deciding to sleep in one morning and skip.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: I'll just do my PM workout today.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I don't need my AM workout.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: It won't make a difference as soon as I wake up after hitting that snooze and I get up at 6.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Instead of 430, I'm like that two hours wasn't worth it.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Like, not a single time do I sleep those extra two hours and be like, oh that I'm so glad I made that decision.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Like, no, like I just I find so much more joy and so much more satisfaction out of getting up, sticking to the plan, putting in the hard work and the miles, and then you know whether or not it actually ends up paying off on race day, because it doesn't always.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: You know, you have bad days, you have bad races, like that happens to everybody, and so it's like but it doesn't matter though, because the journey to get there was still just so fun and so satisfying, and so I don't know, it always just it always seems to pay off and be worth it in the end you seem like a process guy.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Like I did something.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: I like I love the process same dude there's nothing more fun than like preparing and like making sure there's no stir, stone unturned oh, for sure, isn't that, like I don't know, for sure I feel like I'm talking to a younger, younger version of myself here.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: This is yeah, no, it's.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: It's so great like I even talking to a younger version of myself here.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: This is amazing.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: No, it's so great Like I even have to catch myself at times being like okay, like last year, one of the main mistakes that I made was I trained too hard too early in the season so that by the end of the season I was dealing like fending off injuries and exhaustion and you know, et cetera, and you know, etc.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Um, and so this year around, I'm like, okay, the beginning of my season might, you know, be sacrificed a little bit, but like I'm gonna finish the end of the season a lot stronger, which is which is the main problem that I had last year.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: And so, like right now, like I'm only doing one workout a day and I'm like I'm counting down the weeks until I get to start doing my ams again.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: And so it's like there's just, like you you know, there's this excitement of like oh, like the process of like slowly building and just getting faster and stronger and more disciplined is like, like I said, like it's just so fun and it's so satisfying that like I'm like I'm itching to get back into it.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, like you got to take your time, you got to learn your lessons from last year, like, if you go too hard now then, and because it's hard, like you, you, you catch yourself doing it all the time.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: You're like I need to be as best as I can right now.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, if I'm as best as I am right now, the season is so long that six months down the road I'm gonna be battling all these things where it's like if I just start out a little slower and be a little more patient but I mean, everyone struggles being patient Like it's so hard to be patient, but sometimes you just got to do it, and so that's where I'm at right now.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'm so ready to get to the next process to get things really rolling, but I'm like you just gotta be patient, you just gotta be patient.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Like it's just a few more weeks and yeah Anyways.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: But I love the process, it's great, it's so much fun.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: It's the best sport on earth.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Like to be able to like running.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: It's so much fun, Right?
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: And the fact that like you hit on.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: something like I love is like when you can reward yourself with a workout, when you get in that mindset and like you're like craving it and like looking forward to like, the like, the like, whatever kind of session it would be, but just a hard session Like those are the best, yeah, it's that's fun, man.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I could say are you, um, do you, are you coached by anyone?
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Or do you work?
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Uh, do you train yourself?
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: No, I train myself train myself.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I thought about in the past, um, either asking my dad, uh, if he has some stuff, um going back to a whole old high school coach or college coach, or even just finding a completely new coach.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: But, um, I mean kind of to go along with like the process of all.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Like I like to build my own, like I feel confident that like okay, I've been running long enough that like I know kind of what key sessions I need to hit and what you know what mileage works best for me, et cetera.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's something that I struggled with in college was like our coach would set stuff up and like we would just kind of I was stubborn, he was stubborn and we just kind of bash heads and you know, we get, we get into our fights sometimes.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Um, and so when I graduated college, I was like I was so excited and happy to just be able to train myself and be like okay, this is what I want to do and this is how I want to do it.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: But like I've never gone back and I don't know right now, I don't see that changing anytime in the near future.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I think I just I don't know, I enjoy too much building my own process and being like all right, this is what we're going to do and just sticking to it.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: But I like that man.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: You know what there's?
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: something to be said about, like selfcoaching, and I think some people can benefit really well from it, but others For instance, I now coach myself and I've drastically expanded my fitness.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: I've done a lot of things that I probably wouldn't have done had I had a coach and it's worked or continues to work.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: So I'm like I don't know.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: I think different people in different spots of their career could benefit from it, or the average person maybe in different spots of their career could benefit from it, or the average person maybe, but I think certain people, it works just being able to be committed to the process, and if you don't need someone to motivate you, that's half the battle already, if you're already self-motivated and you just figure out your own workouts, then yeah, it's not, you don't need somebody to do it.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, for sure.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: All right, dude, so we're cutting down.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna starting to get tight on time, so I want to pivot to awesome ending questions.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see who inspires you yeah, I mean heck freaking.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Most recently, andy man, I just saw his, uh, his road races that he's throwing down right now, like and he's a monster, I can't remember, dude, his road races that he's throwing down right now, like I can't remember, there's something like that.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: I was like I was mind blown man.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I was like holy cow, like freaking, taking a little step back from the trails and hitting the roads and he's just killing it.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: I was like that is, that's awesome.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: I was like I'm so, I'm so happy for him and excited for to see what he can do for the rest of the year.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: And so I mean, most recently, andy has been super inspiring.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Um, I mean, in the past, uh, I mean we kind of talked about it earlier.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: But Christian, I mean really, uh, you know, getting with Nike and making that, you know, like dream of his come true, that was awesome.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: That's definitely something I'm trying to do myself.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: And then Hobie, my dad, for sure Him probably the biggest of all, just because, like you said, I got to see it from a young age unfold Everything from his dreams to being an Olympic marathoner.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Um, that just didn't quite pan out, but then, um, I mean he still did amazing.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I mean he still ran like a like a two 16,.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: I think there's like still really awesome racing, um.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: But then even more so than that though, like kind of having rough times after the Olympic trials and then picking himself back up and getting revamped into like OCR and like just being just as happy about a completely different side of running but still have just as much joy and passion in it Like that was super inspiring.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: As well as much joy and passion in it Like that was super inspiring as well, um.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I'm sure I'm sure there have been others throughout my life as well, but I think those are the.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Those are the first three that popped to mind.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: No, that's a perfect, I think, dude Andy, especially right now, like Jesus, like I mean, yeah, I gotta, yeah, I gotta hand it to him.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Um and do Christian.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: One of the things you said is, like you know I'm trying to live out that.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: You know that dream like is there any brand in particular that like you've had in mind for a long time that you like that kind of calls to you, or is it more so just the dream of being a professional athlete?
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Um, it's mainly just the dream of being a professional athlete.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Um, there's been a couple brands that like I really like their gear, um and so, but I mean other than that, though.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Like nobody is like really stuck out, like as far as you know, like like story-wise kind of thing, like nobody's been like oh, like that's such an inspiring brand.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: It's more just been like, oh, like I really like their gear.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: You know, like I really like racing in their shoes, so I want to be sponsored by them, kind of a thing.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: And so, no, nobody that like I'm just dying to be sponsored by me.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: It's mainly just the idea of like I mean, when it really comes down to it, just someone to help pay for races like Italy.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm like I just need like a little support to be able to get out there, do the amazing races that I want to do.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Like that's.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: That's what is mainly coming down to right now, um, and so, yeah, honestly, just you know, whichever good company is able to help me get there, that's I'm happy with that.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: So not too picky.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: But dude.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Well, after the season, I'm sure you'll have, you'll have a pick, you'll have a pick up them.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Um, all right, dude, if you're getting ready for a race, it's a serious race or a hard effort.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Like what are you listening to?
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Like what, uh, what's your favorite?
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: What's your favorite tune before a race?
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Um, honestly, I don't think I have one like, I don't like, a lot of the time I'll just turn on whatever is on the radio.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: I really I really don't have like, uh, like a hype up song or like playlists.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Um, I mean, most of the time I work out it's quiet, like I usually don't run with music or work out with music.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Um, most of the time it's just either me and some friends or me and my own thoughts, and so that kind of translates over to race day too.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Like, just, I don't know, I'm not really used.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not really used to listening to music when I run, and so it doesn't really pop into my head to do it before I race.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: I just whatever's on the radio as I'm driving up the canyon to whatever ski resort the race happens to be at, and that's pretty much it I like it, dude, I you know there's something to be said.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: It's very powerful about needing a song to like hype you up or you just like personally, like get into that, you can get your yeah I just get excited.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: I'm like heck, I mean it's hard.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: Not like, once you get out of the car and you look at the amazing mountain that you're about to either crush or get crushed by, you're like it's hard not to get excited.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: You're like, well, all right, my heart's racing, I don't need anything else Like, all I need is to look at that peak and be like that's lots of, it's a lot of climbing ahead of me.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: That does a lot of climbing ahead of me.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: That does the trick, are you?
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Uh, do you get nervous at all on start lines?
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it depends on the race, like some more than others.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Um, I used to get nervous really bad in high school, um, but I was able to get it a lot more under control in college, um, and then so, and then that's just kind of transferred over to the trail racing.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: And yeah, like the professional races I do now, I'll still get nervous, but it feels like more of an excitement energy than a nervous energy, if that makes sense.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: And so it's not too bad.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: It's more just excited to get going and then as soon as the gun goes off and like it all disappears and it just turns into adrenaline like just go, go, go and so.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Now it's interesting.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Man, like some people tell me like no, I don't get nervous.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: And then some people are like, yeah, I'm like extremely nervous and I feel like it just comes like the cadence of racing, like the more you race, the less nervous you get, or the more you just get used to it.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: It's like the first couple of races of the season are always the most stressful, because you're like okay, it's been a long break.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Like am I in the shape that I think I am?
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: What are the main things that I'm going to need to work on?
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: You know stuff like that and then.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: But then, once you're a couple races into the season though, you kind of get back into the flow of things and you're like all right, it's just just another day just another race, just another day at the office, that's right.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just another day at the office, that's right all right, dude.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Last question I usually ask a stupid silly question at the end.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: This is like my mo um, it's usually something with aliens or Bigfoot or like AI.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: With you, I think I'm going to ask like do you believe in aliens?
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: What's your take on aliens?
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I believe in aliens for sure.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: There's.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: There's no way we're the ones.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: Now I'm not saying I believe in you know the six eyes green or whatever kind of things, but yeah, there's.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: There's no way, like there's so much out there, there's no way we're the only things.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: There's.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: There's no way, I believe.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm the same way oh man.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: All right, dude.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Well, hawk, thank you so much for coming on the podcast dude.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: I hope this is the first of many conversations.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Obviously, you and I'll be in touch.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Literally we'll talk before broken arrow and we'll talk before soon.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: Ap is when we start to do race previews and stuff like that for sure but, dude, I think this is a good starting point for your story and and thank you so much for coming on to let me help tell your story and, dude, I'm so psyched for your future.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Like I'm stoked man, I'm really excited to have had you on.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: I've had a conversation thanks, yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I'm super excited too, and so, yeah, all right, I'll see you at some races that's right.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: Right, that's right.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I'll be in touch.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Oh man, what a fun episode.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for Hawk.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Uh to Hawk for coming on.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Um, like I said, want to give a big shout out to Hawk for, uh, you know, making the trail team elite team for 2025.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: And, uh, yeah, like I said, I'm so excited for where this and it's going to be fun to see where his future goes over the next few years.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Guys, follow him on Instagram, hop on Instagram, give him a follow.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: That's going to be at Hawk underscore call.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: So that's Hawk underscore C-A-L-L.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Like I said, give him a follow.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: He's got some entertaining rails, actually.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: On Instagram he posts some good stuff on his training, what he's been up to over the spring and winter, for some of his off-season training and just some of his stuff that he's got going on.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: So definitely give him a follow.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he'd appreciate that.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, before you get going, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify or wherever you consume your podcasts.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Have a great rest of your week.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, thank you.