Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gorgeous DC Jogger stabbing perp; Elizabeth Smart kidnapper walks free; Border Patrol serial killer

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Gorgeous DC Jogger stabbing perp; Elizabeth Smart kidnapper walks free; Border Patrol serial killer · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: If you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers,
0:03
Speaker 1: do not miss the new docuseries on Oxygen. It's the
0:06
Speaker 1: true story of a teen girl, a cheerleader in Mississippi
0:10
Speaker 1: who is burned alive and the story of the man
0:15
Speaker 1: accused of this heinous crime. Is that the right guy
0:19
Speaker 1: on trial? Who is he? And who is Jessica Chambers?
0:23
Speaker 1: And how does such a horrific crime occur? With more
0:29
Speaker 1: questions than answers, this is the case that has captured
0:33
Speaker 1: national headlines, taken over social media, and leaves a small
0:37
Speaker 1: town divided. This is a must see TV event. It
0:42
Speaker 1: features exclusive interviews that take you inside the investigation as
0:47
Speaker 1: a search for answers and justice goes on. Unspeakable crime
0:52
Speaker 1: The Killing of Jessica Chambers Saturdays at seven six Central
0:56
Speaker 1: on Oxygen, the new network for crime Crime Stories with
1:06
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Eight thirty five year old young woman stabbed
1:17
Speaker 1: dead on an early evening jog daylight hours near her
1:21
Speaker 1: home in Upscale, Washington, d C. Just one week after
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Speaker 1: she is engaged to be married. I'm talking about Wendy Martinez,
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Speaker 1: the chief of staff at a d C company fiscal note,
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Speaker 1: stabbed dead near Logan Circle. This is before eight pm yesterday.
1:40
Speaker 1: What happened to Wendy Martinez? Her family described her as
1:46
Speaker 1: a devout Christian, the light of their lives, who had
1:50
Speaker 1: just gotten engaged. Straight out to John Limley, Crime online
1:55
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, what do we know, John? Nancy?
1:58
Speaker 1: Wendy Martinez grew up in Florida, but she settled in
2:03
Speaker 1: d C. After graduating from Georgetown University. She went on
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Speaker 1: to become chief of staff at Fiscal Note Technology management company.
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Speaker 1: On linked In, she describes herself as a forward thinker
2:19
Speaker 1: in data and technology. It seems she was perfectly suited
2:24
Speaker 1: for her life as a tech executive. Not too long ago,
2:28
Speaker 1: Wendy was featured in an article for the website Bridge
2:32
Speaker 1: dot Com, and in that interview, she says that exercise
2:36
Speaker 1: was a big part of her life. She said she
2:39
Speaker 1: loved to take classes at a local fitness studio and
2:43
Speaker 1: that she loved nothing more than to go jogging around
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Speaker 1: d C. Unfortunately, it was that passion for running that
2:52
Speaker 1: would lead ultimately to her death. A horrific attack, A
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Speaker 1: bloody attack on jogger Wendy Martinez one week after she
3:00
Speaker 1: gets engaged, DAB dead in Washington Tuesday evening, police looking
3:06
Speaker 1: for a man spotted on surveillance video. Now take a
3:11
Speaker 1: listen to what Washington, d C. Police Chief Peter Nisham says.
3:16
Speaker 1: It was very disturbing. Uh, you know, you have a
3:18
Speaker 1: young woman out here exercising in a neighborhood, very very
3:23
Speaker 1: safe neighborhood. You have a lot of people out here,
3:24
Speaker 1: people are enjoying dinner across the street, and have something
3:28
Speaker 1: like that happened. Like I said, it's unsettling. We do
3:31
Speaker 1: not have a motive. But like I said, um, more
3:35
Speaker 1: likely than not it was a stranger to the victim,
3:39
Speaker 1: to Mark Class, founder of Class Kids Foundation, a random attack,
3:45
Speaker 1: that's what police are saying. How likely is that, Well,
3:50
Speaker 1: it was likely for Sun believe me, in the same
3:52
Speaker 1: area several years ago. And I think at this point
3:55
Speaker 1: in time, and we hear about women that are out
3:57
Speaker 1: jogging that are approached by these creatures on a regular basis,
4:02
Speaker 1: and I think it's incumbent upon them at this point, unfortunately,
4:06
Speaker 1: to carry some kind of protection with them, whether it
4:09
Speaker 1: be mace, pepper, spree, or some kind of a physical weapon.
4:13
Speaker 1: To Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute.
4:17
Speaker 1: I was looking at one photo. This woman, a George
4:20
Speaker 1: Town grad, she just gotten engaged. In the photo, it
4:25
Speaker 1: shows the fiancee, Daniel in a blue suit, down on
4:28
Speaker 1: one knee with a ring box open as she was
4:32
Speaker 1: standing there with his beautiful smile on her face. And
4:37
Speaker 1: what you do, and what I do, when we're putting
4:39
Speaker 1: cases together, is you go back and you get to
4:42
Speaker 1: know the victim in death. And photos like that just
4:49
Speaker 1: they're heartbreaking, you know. I remember the first carjack murder
4:52
Speaker 1: case Cheryl I ever tried, and it was a young guy.
4:56
Speaker 1: He was carjack and shot in his own front yard
5:00
Speaker 1: that where he lived with his family, with his mom
5:03
Speaker 1: and dad and siblings. And I was looking at the
5:06
Speaker 1: crime scene photos. I was going to the crime scene
5:09
Speaker 1: and then I saw where a neighbor ran out with
5:13
Speaker 1: a pillow and put under his head in the driveway,
5:18
Speaker 1: and that was it. I actually I had to leave
5:21
Speaker 1: the courtroom. That tenderness broke my heart. I could look
5:27
Speaker 1: at the crime scene photos, the autopsy reports all day long,
5:31
Speaker 1: but something about that photo, and there's something about this photo,
5:35
Speaker 1: that joyful moment they were having just last week. It
5:40
Speaker 1: just when you're putting a case back together. That's the
5:44
Speaker 1: journey you go through. There's no question about it, Nancy.
5:47
Speaker 1: That was a storybook moment that was captured. It was beautiful,
5:51
Speaker 1: it was swede, it was endearing, and their whole life
5:53
Speaker 1: lade out in front of them. But what resonates for
5:58
Speaker 1: me is the video of the man walking away from
6:03
Speaker 1: that scene, and he's swinging his right arm pretty consistently,
6:07
Speaker 1: like trying to walk at a good gate, but his
6:10
Speaker 1: left hand isn't moving at all. You don't even see
6:12
Speaker 1: his fingers. He's got long sleeve zone, so that indicates
6:16
Speaker 1: to me he's probably holding the knife in his left
6:18
Speaker 1: hand and his hiding it because there's probably blood all
6:21
Speaker 1: over it. So that also indicates to me, you've got
6:23
Speaker 1: a Georgetown graduate thirty five years old, so she's smart,
6:27
Speaker 1: she's athletic, she's recently engaged. This person is the opposite
6:31
Speaker 1: of that to me, so clearly stranger on Stranger Crimes.
6:35
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, host of i d S hit show
6:39
Speaker 1: Fatal Vows, lawyer and psychologists, it's kind of hard to
6:43
Speaker 1: reconcile this wonderful, beautiful, storybook life and this horrific crime.
6:49
Speaker 1: I guess I'm reacting so badly to it because of
6:53
Speaker 1: the murder of my fiance just before our wedding. When
6:56
Speaker 1: you see your whole life just go sideways in one
7:00
Speaker 1: moment and a stranger on stranger attack Brian, Yeah, I
7:04
Speaker 1: think it really underscores the point that you've made telling
7:08
Speaker 1: your story many times, and we've sadly made in cases
7:12
Speaker 1: like this over years of covering them, that it can
7:16
Speaker 1: happen to anybody. There's you don't have to have done
7:20
Speaker 1: anything wrong, you don't have to have you don't have
7:24
Speaker 1: to have done anything. It's such a sense that people
7:29
Speaker 1: get of injustice about not just the crime, but just
7:34
Speaker 1: about the universe almost about how can something like this
7:38
Speaker 1: happen to? You know what? Why does some Why do
7:42
Speaker 1: things like this ever happen to good people? But they do,
7:45
Speaker 1: and most of the time they do. Just as we
7:49
Speaker 1: are going to air, we are learning right now that
7:53
Speaker 1: an arrest has been made a suspect arrested on the
7:59
Speaker 1: attack of Wendy Martinez fatally stabbed while out jogging, stabbed
8:03
Speaker 1: over and over and over. After the attack, she managed
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Speaker 1: to stagger into a nearby Chinese restaurant, where everybody in
8:12
Speaker 1: there tried to help her. She died to Kenya Johnson, felony.
8:17
Speaker 1: Atlanta Prosecutor. When you have surveillance video, it goes a
8:23
Speaker 1: long way in catching your purp, but it doesn't go
8:27
Speaker 1: the entire way. How do you put the pieces together
8:30
Speaker 1: to find the guy. Well, you're still gonna need witnesses
8:33
Speaker 1: to come in and say that they can identify this
8:36
Speaker 1: image that's on this surveillance video. And of course it
8:40
Speaker 1: is very helpful for the juries a trial to see
8:43
Speaker 1: the actual actions on the perpetrator before, during, and after
8:48
Speaker 1: the crime event. However, now police are gonna need to
8:51
Speaker 1: go to the public or they already did, and see
8:54
Speaker 1: if they can identify this grainy video and still have
8:57
Speaker 1: to make an identification Cheryl McCullum. They said at the
9:01
Speaker 1: get go they thought it was a random attack. It
9:04
Speaker 1: appears that there may be some mental illness, some drug use,
9:09
Speaker 1: but he, for whatever reason, zeroed in on this poor
9:12
Speaker 1: woman who was doing nothing. In no way provoked or
9:16
Speaker 1: calls this incident. Take a listen now to the latest
9:19
Speaker 1: from Police Chief Peter Nishan. The motive in this case
9:23
Speaker 1: right now is unknown. Yesterday morning, we released surveillance video
9:27
Speaker 1: showing a person of interest in the case. A combination
9:31
Speaker 1: of information that we received from our third District Patrol
9:34
Speaker 1: officers and tips from the community helped our homicide detectives
9:40
Speaker 1: established the identification of this person of interest that was
9:43
Speaker 1: shown in the video homicide. They located this individual in
9:47
Speaker 1: a park at fourteen and Gerrard Street, Northwest. He was
9:51
Speaker 1: transported to the Homicide division for questioning. Sufficient probable cause
9:55
Speaker 1: was established, and this morning we arrested and charged twenty
9:59
Speaker 1: three year old Anthony Crawford of Northwest, d C. With
10:02
Speaker 1: first degree murder while armed. We await as the case progresses.
10:07
Speaker 1: When we talk about violent crime, it's almost as if
10:11
Speaker 1: we're drinking from a fire hydrant. It's just too much,
10:14
Speaker 1: too fast, too furious. If you have heard about the
10:17
Speaker 1: murder of Jessica Chambers, don't miss the new docuseries on Oxygen,
10:22
Speaker 1: The true story of a teen girl cheerleader Mississippi, Burned Alive,
10:27
Speaker 1: The story of the man now accused of the heinous crime.
10:32
Speaker 1: Is the right guy on trial? Who is he? And
10:35
Speaker 1: who was Jessica Chambers? How does such a horrific crime
10:39
Speaker 1: even occur? More questions than answers. It's a case that
10:43
Speaker 1: has captured national headlines taken over social media and has
10:47
Speaker 1: now left and is leaving a small town divided. It's
10:52
Speaker 1: a Mussy TV event with exclusive interviews that take you
10:56
Speaker 1: inside the investigation as a search for ants, SoRs, and
11:00
Speaker 1: justice goes on. Don't miss it. It is Unspeakable Crime
11:06
Speaker 1: the killing on Jessica Chamber Saturday's seven six Central on Oxygen,
11:11
Speaker 1: the new network for crime. When we got that call
11:15
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, I could kind of
11:17
Speaker 1: tell that, you know, something bad had happened and never
11:20
Speaker 1: told us the story, and um, it's just you know, panic,
11:26
Speaker 1: you know someone's taken Elizabeth with a gun, and you know,
11:30
Speaker 1: get down here. It's just kind of it's just the sick,
11:35
Speaker 1: terrible feeling. It just struck your heart that this, this
11:38
Speaker 1: is the worst thing that could ever happen. I remember
11:46
Speaker 1: walking in to the house and singing Lotta sitting on
11:49
Speaker 1: that couch and it was just that was just horrifying.
11:58
Speaker 1: I mean, she was just wailing, catatonic. It was just
12:06
Speaker 1: this nightmare is real. Elizabeth Smart, a little girl kidnapped
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Speaker 1: from her own room, in her own bed, her uncle's
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Speaker 1: Tom and David talk about first discovering she's gone in
12:19
Speaker 1: a documentary The kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart. I Meancy Grace,
12:22
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
12:25
Speaker 1: Bob Shell, now one of her two kidnappers. The female accomplice,
12:31
Speaker 1: Wanda bars in the Last Hour's pictured for the very
12:35
Speaker 1: first time, says she has been released just fifteen years
12:41
Speaker 1: after the kidnap of little girl Elizabeth Smart. It's hard
12:46
Speaker 1: for me to take in that this woman goes along
12:51
Speaker 1: with her husband, the so called profit David Mitchell, in
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Speaker 1: his quest to kidnapped six little girls to become his
13:00
Speaker 1: child bride's. Well, we know what that means, child bride.
13:03
Speaker 1: It means child molestation. That's what child bride means. And
13:09
Speaker 1: she held Elizabeth Smart, tied her to a tree, and
13:14
Speaker 1: sat beside her as she was raped and threatened with
13:18
Speaker 1: death every single day for nine months. Another terrifying, chilling
13:26
Speaker 1: thought is that this woman, Wanda bar Z sat there
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Speaker 1: quiet as they could hear rescue workers in the distance
13:35
Speaker 1: calling out Elizabeth, Elizabeth. She sat there quiet, her chance
13:40
Speaker 1: to save Elizabeth's life, joining me Mark Class victim advocate,
13:45
Speaker 1: founder of Class Kids Foundation. Kenya Johnson, Atlanta veteran prosecutor.
13:50
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host, of investigation Discoveries he
13:54
Speaker 1: hit series Fatal Vows. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold
13:58
Speaker 1: Case Research in to Crime Scene Investigator, Joining me right now,
14:03
Speaker 1: John Limley, reporter with crime online dot Com. John. Who
14:07
Speaker 1: is this woman? Wanda Barsie Nancy. It's interesting to note
14:11
Speaker 1: that Elizabeth Smart's two abductors actually met in a mental
14:15
Speaker 1: health counseling group. One to Barsie was introduced to Brian
14:21
Speaker 1: Mitchell when she was receiving treatment for depression. She found
14:25
Speaker 1: that she was able to talk with Brian about her
14:28
Speaker 1: abusive marriage and he was able to provide her with
14:31
Speaker 1: some much needed comfort. At the time, Brian had become
14:35
Speaker 1: active in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day
14:38
Speaker 1: Saints and was an ordained elder. Both of them were
14:42
Speaker 1: actually going through divorces at the time, and though they
14:46
Speaker 1: were still married to other people, church leaders approved of
14:50
Speaker 1: their budding relationship because they knew the couple needed each other.
14:55
Speaker 1: The couple actually married the very same day as Brian's
14:59
Speaker 1: divorce wars became final. From what we understand, that first
15:03
Speaker 1: year was absolutely hellish that they argued all the time.
15:08
Speaker 1: Wanda has said that it was difficult, It was painful,
15:11
Speaker 1: but they did make it through that first year of marriage.
15:16
Speaker 1: Of course, as we now know, this is just the
15:19
Speaker 1: beginning of a most bizarre path that the couple would
15:22
Speaker 1: travel together. It became a toxic mix of religion, sex,
15:29
Speaker 1: and ultimately crime. Well, John, Lily, when you put it
15:32
Speaker 1: like that to me, it is romanticized about how he
15:36
Speaker 1: helped her and just no, I'm not getting sucked into
15:44
Speaker 1: their story. Uh F d l s F d Eryl McCollum.
15:50
Speaker 1: Isn't that the Mormons? It is? And they were later
15:53
Speaker 1: all thrown out of that church nat as they should
15:57
Speaker 1: have been. Um, you know this is something that stumps me.
16:01
Speaker 1: I went to school with a young guy, Wayne, who's Mormon,
16:04
Speaker 1: and he could not even have chocolate milk. He was
16:08
Speaker 1: very devout. How can they divorce and remarry and come
16:11
Speaker 1: up with the idea of a child? Right? You know what?
16:14
Speaker 1: I want to clear something up that is not the
16:16
Speaker 1: Mormon religion. That's these two nuts felons evil. Why she's out, Cheryl?
16:23
Speaker 1: I do not know. To Mark Class, who has not
16:27
Speaker 1: only uh talk the talk, but walked the walk in
16:31
Speaker 1: searching for crime victims his specialty children, Mark weigh in,
16:35
Speaker 1: how did the whole thing happened to start with, and
16:38
Speaker 1: I want to hear your reaction on BARSI walking free. Yeah, well,
16:44
Speaker 1: we have to remember that that we have to take
16:48
Speaker 1: this out of the realm of of of reality and
16:51
Speaker 1: bring it into the craziness and the insanity that these
16:54
Speaker 1: people exist in. Mitchell was a homeless individual who was
17:00
Speaker 1: hired by Elizabeth's father to do work on the house,
17:03
Speaker 1: and that's where he bought his eye on Elizabeth. He
17:07
Speaker 1: later came back in the middle of the night and
17:09
Speaker 1: cut his way through a screen door, entered the house,
17:12
Speaker 1: and kidnapped Elizabeth at knife point with her sister m
17:17
Speaker 1: while her sister was awake in the room with her,
17:19
Speaker 1: and she then was missing for nine months. Nancy, I
17:22
Speaker 1: believe that the answer to this whole thing is civil commitment.
17:26
Speaker 1: I don't understand why they've allowed this woman to run free.
17:29
Speaker 1: Elizabeth said that it's incomprehensible how someone who has not
17:33
Speaker 1: cooperated with her mental health evaluations or risk assessments, or
17:37
Speaker 1: someone who did not show up to her own parole
17:39
Speaker 1: hearings can be released into our community. And I have
17:43
Speaker 1: to completely and totally agree with her and wonder why
17:45
Speaker 1: the authorities aren't looking in a way to civilly commit
17:48
Speaker 1: her given the fact that she's still very well, maybe
17:51
Speaker 1: a threat to the community. She's no doubt suffering from
17:55
Speaker 1: mental diseases, and and she's absolutely terrified. This woman who
18:01
Speaker 1: deserves nothing more than peace in her life. For nine
18:04
Speaker 1: long months, this obsessed couple keeps Little Elizabeth tied up
18:09
Speaker 1: in the woods where Mitchell Brian David Mitchell rapes her daily,
18:15
Speaker 1: threatens to murder her daily, with bars a sitting right
18:19
Speaker 1: beside her as it happened. I don't understand it, Kenya Johnson.
18:25
Speaker 1: You're a veteran prosecutor in many jurisdictions for rape or kidnap,
18:31
Speaker 1: you get life behind bars. What happened, Kenya? Why is
18:34
Speaker 1: she out? You know? Um? It could be a variety
18:38
Speaker 1: of reasons. From what I understand, her senses expired and
18:42
Speaker 1: why they attempted to have her community for longer or
18:45
Speaker 1: as a civil commitment. Uh. The law states and Utah
18:48
Speaker 1: that when your sensors expires, they can no longer keep you,
18:51
Speaker 1: and so she's not gonna be under She'll be under
18:54
Speaker 1: the jurisdiction of the courts as far as parole was concerned,
18:57
Speaker 1: where she has the restrictions from contact uh the victim. However,
19:02
Speaker 1: when the criminal case has run its course, that's it
19:06
Speaker 1: unless we begin to initiate new actions. I don't give
19:09
Speaker 1: a flying fig about they don't contact the victim. Elizabeth
19:15
Speaker 1: Smart lives with this woman and this monster in her
19:19
Speaker 1: head every day. Um. Dr Brian Russell not only psychologist
19:26
Speaker 1: and host of I d S Fatal Vowel series, but
19:29
Speaker 1: also lawyer. This is what I understand. I had to
19:32
Speaker 1: It's like a ball of yarn. I had took me
19:36
Speaker 1: forever to unravel this thing, Dr Brian, But this is
19:39
Speaker 1: what I think went down. So they sentenced her to fifteen.
19:43
Speaker 1: They should have run consecutive, but no, no, that means
19:46
Speaker 1: one after the next. But what happened was she did
19:51
Speaker 1: sometime in a federal pen. So just a couple of
19:55
Speaker 1: years ago, Brian, they make the announcement pardon in parole,
19:58
Speaker 1: say she's gonna be until tw Now. They jump up
20:02
Speaker 1: out of nowhere. Elizabeth did not see it coming and says, oh, well,
20:06
Speaker 1: you know what, guess what we miscalculated. We got to
20:08
Speaker 1: give her credit for the sad time she's out. She's
20:12
Speaker 1: getting out. I mean, that's like a ton of bricks
20:16
Speaker 1: just drop right on your head. Dr Brian. Well, as
20:19
Speaker 1: you know, I rarely see a print prison sentence that
20:23
Speaker 1: I think is long enough. And so you know, we
20:26
Speaker 1: all learned in law school that the person who drives
20:29
Speaker 1: the getaway car is, under the law considered equally guilty
20:33
Speaker 1: as the person who actually goes into the bank and
20:36
Speaker 1: robs it. So I don't I agree with Mark Class.
20:39
Speaker 1: If there were a way that we could use the
20:42
Speaker 1: mental health system to keep this woman off the street longer,
20:45
Speaker 1: that would certainly be better than nothing. But to me,
20:48
Speaker 1: that the origin of this goes all the way back
20:50
Speaker 1: to what she was charged with and sentenced for in
20:54
Speaker 1: the very beginning. Not long enough. She belongs to prison
20:57
Speaker 1: every day as long as her boyfriend Wanda Bars convicted
21:03
Speaker 1: for aiding a street preacher Brian David Mitchell to kidnap
21:08
Speaker 1: and rape a little girl has been released, has been released.
21:14
Speaker 1: She was last thing carrying a banana and a box
21:16
Speaker 1: of salad as she followed authorities to a hotel. Her
21:21
Speaker 1: family is saying she cannot come here. She needs to
21:23
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Speaker 1: happened here in this episode. One David Ortiz dirty if
24:00
Speaker 1: of course, if anything I believe or thieve, targeted all
24:06
Speaker 1: victims due to their profession and being invulnerable. In addition,
24:12
Speaker 1: all the victims were defenseless, and at one point or
24:15
Speaker 1: these was able to gain their trust and then viciously
24:20
Speaker 1: How does a man in a position of authority and
24:24
Speaker 1: law enforcement, a US Border Patrol agent turn into a
24:29
Speaker 1: serial killer. I mean, see Grace, this is crime Stories.
24:33
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us in the last days.
24:36
Speaker 1: We are stunned that this man has been able to
24:39
Speaker 1: operate as a serial killer right under the noses of
24:46
Speaker 1: law enforcement and Border patrol. David Ortiz serial killer, father, married,
24:54
Speaker 1: father of two young children, with a home and a job.
24:57
Speaker 1: How often do cereal killers disguise themselves as law enforcement,
25:04
Speaker 1: going under the radar of their friends and colleagues. Right
25:09
Speaker 1: now we know of four dead bodies. A fifth woman
25:14
Speaker 1: managed to escape his clutches, half naked, to somehow get
25:18
Speaker 1: out of his vehicle as he pointed a gun at
25:21
Speaker 1: her face and run for it. It was then and
25:25
Speaker 1: only then that Ortiz was exposed. Right now we know
25:30
Speaker 1: the names of some of his victims, but not all
25:32
Speaker 1: of them. How many more are there joining me? Robin
25:37
Speaker 1: Olinski's crime online dot Com investigative reporter Robin start at
25:42
Speaker 1: the beginning, basically, what this man, thirty five year old.
25:46
Speaker 1: He was a supervisor with the Laredo sector of the
25:48
Speaker 1: Border Patrol, and he picked up a woman, Melissa Ramirez.
25:53
Speaker 1: He shot her in the head multiple times. You know,
25:55
Speaker 1: it's one thing somebody shoots somebody else but to shoot
25:58
Speaker 1: them in the head. There are some real underlying anger there.
26:02
Speaker 1: Then he shoots a forty two year old woman, claudein Lauera.
26:06
Speaker 1: She had been questioning him about the first victim, Melissa
26:10
Speaker 1: Currently he got very angry shots shoots her in the
26:13
Speaker 1: head too. Uh. Then there then he kills two more
26:17
Speaker 1: people at the police believe in the timeframe of just
26:20
Speaker 1: an hour. Another woman whose name we don't know, who
26:24
Speaker 1: was shot in the head, and then this man, Huberto Ortiz,
26:28
Speaker 1: a victim who was twenty eight years old. And you know,
26:31
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think that there could be
26:33
Speaker 1: more victims out there. And the way that he managed
26:36
Speaker 1: to hide under the radar, disguising himself parading as law
26:40
Speaker 1: enforcement did. Joseph's Got Morgan forensics expert, Professor forensics at
26:45
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of a book on Amazon
26:49
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Fate Joseph's Got Morgan. I believe we're
26:53
Speaker 1: going to find out that he did the same thing
26:56
Speaker 1: over and over and over, which means to me, forensically
27:00
Speaker 1: most of the crime scenes are going to take place
27:02
Speaker 1: right there in his truck. Yeah, I think that that's
27:04
Speaker 1: that's a high probability. Nancy. Also, I think that it's
27:07
Speaker 1: important for us to consider his occupation as a border patrolman.
27:11
Speaker 1: He's gonna put a supervisory position right now. I think
27:15
Speaker 1: that there will be other bodies. I think that they
27:19
Speaker 1: need to go back and see where else he had
27:21
Speaker 1: been stationed. These border patrol agents get stationed along the
27:25
Speaker 1: US border in various different locations. I would think that
27:29
Speaker 1: he would see these opportunities. He's moved into a supervisory position,
27:33
Speaker 1: he can kind of come and go as he pleases.
27:35
Speaker 1: I wonder where else he worked and if there are
27:37
Speaker 1: any missing or unidentified bodies in those locations too. Ashley Willcott, judge,
27:41
Speaker 1: lawyer or founder child crimewatch dot Com. Over and over
27:46
Speaker 1: and over when you're on the bench, when you're handling cases.
27:49
Speaker 1: I saw it myself, But I mean, I'm not a shrink.
27:52
Speaker 1: I don't know how to verbalize it correctly. But people
27:55
Speaker 1: do the same thing over and over and in little things.
27:59
Speaker 1: I do the same thing over and over and over again.
28:02
Speaker 1: I mean, in small patterns, in your life, with your children, everything.
28:06
Speaker 1: We tend to do the same things over and over.
28:09
Speaker 1: You know he's done this before. Actually, we we've just
28:12
Speaker 1: got the tip of the iceberg on this guy. Oh,
28:13
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think they're gonna be a
28:15
Speaker 1: lot of other victims unfortunately. And you are right, especially
28:18
Speaker 1: with criminals. I see it when they come before me,
28:20
Speaker 1: the habits, the propensities, the little tiny things that details
28:25
Speaker 1: that they do the same over and over again. I
28:27
Speaker 1: can hear about a crime and I can say, oh, yeah,
28:30
Speaker 1: by the way, I think that's this person. I think
28:31
Speaker 1: it's this JUVENI I think it's this one who did this.
28:34
Speaker 1: And they'll say, oh, be yep, that's the right one,
28:35
Speaker 1: that's the one. Why Because it's the same way of
28:39
Speaker 1: operating every single time they come at the crime. You
28:41
Speaker 1: know you're right? What is that about? People? Karen start
28:44
Speaker 1: joining us New York psychologist Karen. Why do we do
28:47
Speaker 1: the same things over and over and over? I can
28:50
Speaker 1: tell you last night I was up helping Lucy with
28:52
Speaker 1: a book report at eleven o'clock at night. She does
28:56
Speaker 1: the same thing every time John David finishes his lou See,
29:00
Speaker 1: can I do it later? Can I write one sentence
29:02
Speaker 1: today and the rest of the paragraph tomorrow. That's her
29:05
Speaker 1: and that I do the same thing. I'm sucked into
29:07
Speaker 1: her vortex. I'm like, okay, and then it's eleven o'clock
29:11
Speaker 1: at night, and I'm like, we're not going to procrastinate anymore,
29:14
Speaker 1: and I guarantee you the next time, I'll do the
29:15
Speaker 1: same thing again. I tried my cases the same way.
29:19
Speaker 1: I found myself writing out evidence proving guilt across a
29:23
Speaker 1: poster over and over and over and over for ten years. Okay,
29:27
Speaker 1: lucky for me, it worked. But what I'm saying is
29:31
Speaker 1: you see the same patterns even in my mistakes, big mistakes,
29:35
Speaker 1: small mistakes. It comes from doing the same thing over
29:39
Speaker 1: and ever. What is wrong with us were slaves to
29:43
Speaker 1: our habits fancy, and it's very, very hard to break
29:46
Speaker 1: the patterns that we've lived our life through. And that
29:50
Speaker 1: is very helpful when it comes to criminals because they
29:54
Speaker 1: can help but repeat what they've done before. They're driven
29:58
Speaker 1: to keep doing the stay thing, and it's an obsession.
30:03
Speaker 1: They become obsessed with needing to kill, with needing to
30:08
Speaker 1: use the guns. You begin to pick up traces and
30:12
Speaker 1: can see the patterns of how they work. And that's
30:15
Speaker 1: exactly what happened with this guy. That he was in
30:18
Speaker 1: a position where he could take advantage of it, and
30:21
Speaker 1: she was going after a certain type of person. That's
30:24
Speaker 1: what interested him, and he used the gun and it
30:28
Speaker 1: kept happening over and over again. The witness had struggled
30:33
Speaker 1: with him. Uh she was trying to get out. She
30:36
Speaker 1: later found that this person here had a weapon and
30:40
Speaker 1: she was not feeling just right to be with him.
30:43
Speaker 1: She tried to get away once and then try to
30:46
Speaker 1: get away twice, and what I understand, on the second attempt,
30:49
Speaker 1: she was able to jump out through the door, run
30:52
Speaker 1: towards the lights where a DPS trooper was gassing up
30:56
Speaker 1: at the time. She lived to tell the tale. In
30:58
Speaker 1: the cab of a truck with this guy, a Border
31:01
Speaker 1: Patrol agent very well respected, now revealed to be, according
31:05
Speaker 1: to police, a serial killer, and she was his next victim,
31:09
Speaker 1: the fifth that we know of. She jumps from the
31:13
Speaker 1: cab of that truck. He grabs her by the shirt
31:17
Speaker 1: that comes off. She keeps running, thank God, to the
31:22
Speaker 1: vehicle of law and enforcement and they save her life.
31:27
Speaker 1: To Robert Willinski, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Robert Wilinski,
31:32
Speaker 1: we heard Karen start NewYork psychologists talking about doing the
31:36
Speaker 1: same thing over and over. What was this guy ortiz
31:39
Speaker 1: as m O his modus operandi, method of operation. He
31:42
Speaker 1: was targeting, you know, women who are defenseless, and he
31:45
Speaker 1: tried to gain their trust and take them into his vehicle,
31:48
Speaker 1: and then after he was done with them, he would
31:50
Speaker 1: shoot them. I mean sickening. I think what strikes me,
31:53
Speaker 1: Nancy about this case is that here is someone, a
31:55
Speaker 1: man who is supposed to be, you know, keeping illegal
31:58
Speaker 1: aliens and criminals out of our country. He's supposed to
32:01
Speaker 1: be keeping the criminals out, and he's the criminal. He's
32:03
Speaker 1: the serial killer. I will tell you this is the
32:06
Speaker 1: final point that I would like to interview the people
32:08
Speaker 1: that he supervised and hear from them what this guy
32:12
Speaker 1: was like as their boss. Wouldn't that be interesting? Yeah?
32:15
Speaker 1: I would like to hear that to how he functioning.
32:17
Speaker 1: Quote normal regular life to Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert
32:21
Speaker 1: and author. You know his vehicle has got because you know,
32:26
Speaker 1: he did the same thing over and over again. He
32:28
Speaker 1: would lure women to his vehicle and attack them, is
32:32
Speaker 1: my guests, and then murder them. I believe he were
32:35
Speaker 1: going to find out he shot every one of them,
32:37
Speaker 1: because I know he pulled out his gun on Erica,
32:40
Speaker 1: who managed to get away. Another woman was shot multiple
32:43
Speaker 1: times in the head. A third woman was found alive
32:49
Speaker 1: having been shot by him in the head. She was
32:52
Speaker 1: still alive, Joe Scott Morgan not very far away the
32:56
Speaker 1: butt from the body of another woman. She was alive
32:59
Speaker 1: when she was found, raced to the hospital and she
33:02
Speaker 1: died of her injuries at the hospital. So how do
33:06
Speaker 1: you process that rolling crime scene? The murder truck? Yeah,
33:12
Speaker 1: this is uh, this vehicle is a crime scene on wheels, literally, Nancy.
33:16
Speaker 1: And what's gonna be so uh so key here is
33:19
Speaker 1: that there's gonna be overlapping bits of evidence in here.
33:23
Speaker 1: And specifically, when we think about d n A, what
33:26
Speaker 1: makes it so important? Well, other you know, in any
33:30
Speaker 1: other circumstance, would these women have wound up in this
33:32
Speaker 1: guy's vehicle. Looking at this from a legal perspective, probably not.
33:36
Speaker 1: What are the odds so we can find specific DNA
33:39
Speaker 1: that's tied back to these individual victims in this vehicle
33:43
Speaker 1: that puts them in that particular place. Not to mention
33:46
Speaker 1: other things, maybe he shot them in the vehicle, There
33:49
Speaker 1: might be traces of blood evidence there, there might be
33:52
Speaker 1: hair in there. You never know what has been left behind.
33:55
Speaker 1: And also those things that can be seen with the
33:57
Speaker 1: unaided I say, for instance, they left items there, maybe
34:00
Speaker 1: there's stuff under the seat. So these trucks are going
34:03
Speaker 1: to be virtually a cornucopia of evidence in there. Take
34:06
Speaker 1: a listen to the Zapotta County District Attorney is Cedrols.
34:11
Speaker 1: The evidence that we have right now is that he
34:14
Speaker 1: committed these murders in a similar fashion, taking these individuals
34:19
Speaker 1: out to desolate areas near or or right outside the
34:23
Speaker 1: city limits and executing them with a handgun. The question
34:28
Speaker 1: that's out there is why did he do this? And
34:31
Speaker 1: that's part of our mission to find out why he
34:34
Speaker 1: did this. It's difficult to get into the mind of
34:36
Speaker 1: a killer. But what we have right now, and what
34:39
Speaker 1: we do know, is that or these carried out these
34:44
Speaker 1: murders in a cold, in callous way. There was a
34:49
Speaker 1: common scheme. There was a certain community or group of
34:55
Speaker 1: people that he was seeking out. Unfortunately, the as a
35:00
Speaker 1: community of people that are vulnerable. Bottom line, he sought
35:03
Speaker 1: out those people less cunning, less powerful, or weaker than himself.
35:11
Speaker 1: He used them and murdered them and would then go
35:15
Speaker 1: home to his home and family, his children, as if
35:19
Speaker 1: nothing had happened. You know, to Robin Walinsky, Crime online
35:23
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, you know this reminds me of
35:27
Speaker 1: a great deal is b t K bind Torture killed
35:30
Speaker 1: Dennis Writer who worked as a dog catcher for a
35:33
Speaker 1: municipal jurisdiction for years and years and would go home
35:38
Speaker 1: to a wife and family, all the while planning elaborate
35:43
Speaker 1: murders and staging of scenes of the dead victims and
35:46
Speaker 1: their bodies, putting wigs and clothes, blah blah, all the
35:50
Speaker 1: while disguising as a public servant. Yeah, clearly this guy
35:56
Speaker 1: had some sort of a complex and inferiority complex, and
35:59
Speaker 1: he was living Nancy a double life for sure, and
36:03
Speaker 1: clearly I think angry about it. And why else would
36:07
Speaker 1: you shoot these women? You know, you're getting pleasure from
36:12
Speaker 1: the act of picking up and then you're going and
36:14
Speaker 1: you're shooting this person, disposing of them like they don't count,
36:17
Speaker 1: that their life doesn't matter, and then you go home
36:20
Speaker 1: to your other life. I mean, this guy was clearly
36:22
Speaker 1: sick for a period of time. Out to you, Ashley Walcott.
36:26
Speaker 1: The authorities did not disclose the victim's names or nationality.
36:30
Speaker 1: They wouldn't discuss how the uh women were killed or
36:33
Speaker 1: the evidence, but we now know the evidence indicates he
36:38
Speaker 1: did the same thing over and over. Uh. In one case,
36:41
Speaker 1: we know Ortiz orders one of the ladies out of
36:44
Speaker 1: his car. It was well, it was a white Dodge truck,
36:47
Speaker 1: shot her in the back of the head. He executed
36:50
Speaker 1: another woman as she got out of the truck as well.
36:53
Speaker 1: That's too. It's amazing to me actually that he is
36:57
Speaker 1: married with children, you never know, hiding in plain sight.
37:01
Speaker 1: Not only that, that the neighbors are interviewed and said,
37:03
Speaker 1: we can't believe it, we can't believe he would do this.
37:05
Speaker 1: So that just goes to show regrettably making a murderer.
37:09
Speaker 1: Anybody can be a murderer. He's sadistic, he's sick. The
37:13
Speaker 1: other thing that's important to note in this case, Nancy,
37:15
Speaker 1: he actually worked for the Intel, So think about all
37:18
Speaker 1: of the intelligence, part of the Border Control, all of
37:21
Speaker 1: the information that they had. He was getting so he
37:24
Speaker 1: had all the leads, so he had time to figure
37:26
Speaker 1: out exactly which person he was going to choose to
37:28
Speaker 1: flat out execute, which is what he did to these victims.
37:31
Speaker 1: You know what to Karen start, she's right, as she
37:33
Speaker 1: Rollcott is absolutely correct. He was an Intel supervisor and
37:38
Speaker 1: Intelligent supervisor for Border Patrol, and he specialized in narcotics
37:42
Speaker 1: and human trafficking and at one point was in charge
37:45
Speaker 1: of patrolling Interstate thirty five. And we now know at
37:49
Speaker 1: least one of the alleged victims was found along that
37:53
Speaker 1: same route. And I know for another thing, one of
37:56
Speaker 1: these victims, and Melissa Ramirez just twenty nine, had two children,
38:01
Speaker 1: ages seven and three, And this is how they're going
38:04
Speaker 1: to grow up knowing their mom was lured into this
38:07
Speaker 1: vehicle and then murdered. Unfortunately, Nancy, that's true. That's exactly
38:11
Speaker 1: what how they're going to grow up and be haunted
38:14
Speaker 1: by it. And it's not accidental that he had this job.
38:18
Speaker 1: It fits his personality, it fits what he wanted to do.
38:22
Speaker 1: I would not be amazed to find that this guy
38:25
Speaker 1: has picked this job intentionally so that he could go
38:28
Speaker 1: ahead and pursue his nefarious gangs what he was looking for.
38:33
Speaker 1: And I have to tell you that the reason that
38:36
Speaker 1: he's able to go ahead and have assumed this other
38:38
Speaker 1: identity where his neighbors think he's such a terrific guy
38:42
Speaker 1: family man, is he compartmentalizes what's going on, so he
38:47
Speaker 1: has no true feelings. He's able to separate himself be
38:51
Speaker 1: this fake, wonderful family guy on the one hand and
38:55
Speaker 1: this murderous, treacherous guy on the other. Well, I just wonder,
39:00
Speaker 1: uh if the cops are looking at a bigger time
39:03
Speaker 1: spam because this has all just gone down over the
39:06
Speaker 1: space of a few weeks that we know of what
39:08
Speaker 1: else is lurking, and we can thank one of the
39:12
Speaker 1: victims for his capture. Listen, thanks to the victim who escaped.
39:17
Speaker 1: Law enforcement got a break more quickly with the information
39:20
Speaker 1: than intil that they had. Thank you to the good
39:23
Speaker 1: work by DPS and apprehending him. He was taken to
39:27
Speaker 1: the station where he was read his Miranda warnings and
39:31
Speaker 1: after a thorough interview and interrogation is when he decided
39:36
Speaker 1: to voluntarily confess to these murders. We wait as justice unfolls.
39:42
Speaker 1: Thank you too, Robin Willinski, Ashley Wilcott, Joseph Scott, Morgan,
39:47
Speaker 1: and Karen Stark, and thank you for being with us.
39:51
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray's crime Story signing off, good Bye friend,