Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #447 Schooling Hot Topics

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#447 Schooling Hot Topics · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now, we want our kids to love learning, and homework
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  Speaker 2: seems to be a pretty reliable way to help kids
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  Speaker 2: to hate learning and undermine their curiosity. Plus, we want
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  Speaker 2: them involved in life after school. We don't want them
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  Speaker 2: coming home and having to pull a second shift.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we're starting another week with a big topic this morning. Hello,
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  Speaker 2: this is doctor justin Course. I'm here with my wife Kylie,
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  Speaker 2: mum to our six kids. I'm the founder of Happy
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  Speaker 2: Families dot com dot I you thank you so much
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  Speaker 2: for joining us for the Happy Families Podcast today. A
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  Speaker 2: whole lot of school issues and this is born out
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  Speaker 2: of a couple of things. Number One, a friend of
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  Speaker 2: mine you may know her, Rebecca Sparrow, wrote something really,
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  Speaker 2: really provocative, really engaging on Facebook last year and I've
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  Speaker 2: been holding onto it until today, around the expectations that
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  Speaker 2: we have for our children and schooling. We're going to
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  Speaker 2: get into the ds here and talk about some important
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  Speaker 2: things about homework, but also those expectations for our kids
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  Speaker 2: as they get older and what we demand of them academically,
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  Speaker 2: whether it's good or bad. Then we're going to talk
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  Speaker 2: about the latest news coming primarily out of New South
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  Speaker 2: Wales as a review into school hours commencers, and there's
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  Speaker 2: talk of changing the hours so much that it's going
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  Speaker 2: to completely revolutionize the way school happens. Kylie the comment
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  Speaker 2: from Rebecca Sparrow. Can I read that to you and
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  Speaker 2: then we'll talk about that.
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  Speaker 3: Let's do it.
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  Speaker 2: A friend of mine says, Rebecca took her son to
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  Speaker 2: a year seven orientation the other night at he's soon
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  Speaker 2: to be new high school. I remember this last year
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  Speaker 2: and I've held it off until now. The parents and
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  Speaker 2: kids were told that there was an expectation that kids
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  Speaker 2: would be doing ninety minutes of homework per night. Ninety
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  Speaker 2: minutes of homework per night for twelve year olds. Has
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  Speaker 2: the world gone mad? Asks Rebecca Sparrow. She says, I
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  Speaker 2: wasn't doing ninety minutes of homework in year twelve, so
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  Speaker 2: that's our first topic of conversation. But let me add
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  Speaker 2: the second thing that she's shared in this post. She said, meanwhile,
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  Speaker 2: another friend as a child in year twelve who is
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  Speaker 2: now madly trying to memorize all kinds of information for
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  Speaker 2: the upcoming EIGHTAR exams. What possible benefit is they're enforcing
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  Speaker 2: kids to memorize all this material. It's twenty twenty one,
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  Speaker 2: for Pete's sake, and a year ten girl I know
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  Speaker 2: said she's planning to do the suicide six in years
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  Speaker 2: eleven and twelve. That's the nickname given where you choose
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  Speaker 2: to do physics, Biology, chemistry, English, Maths B, and Maths C.
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  Speaker 3: In your senior years. And then I love this insight,
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  Speaker 3: Beck says.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I see all this talk about how our
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  Speaker 2: old schools are about our kids' mental health. I see
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  Speaker 2: politicians talking about it and education boards, but we are
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  Speaker 2: running in the opposite direction to what our kids need.
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  Speaker 2: Our kids well being in their future careers are not
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  Speaker 2: reliant on single scores at the end of year twelve.
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  Speaker 2: Don't buy into that message. Year twelve scores are about
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  Speaker 2: school marketing, brochures and universities using scarcity as a tactic.
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  Speaker 2: There are so many different pathways to take after school, Kylie,
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  Speaker 2: what's your reaction.
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  Speaker 4: I wonder as a parent how many things we worry
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  Speaker 4: about are actually unnecessary and cause added strain and intense
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  Speaker 4: pressure on our children.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, what a great what a great summary of that,
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  Speaker 2: and education seems to be one of those areas where
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  Speaker 2: we do it the most.
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  Speaker 3: Can we talk about homework?
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  Speaker 4: It is one of your I want to say, Pet
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  Speaker 4: Peeves pet topics.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've been talking about this for a long time,
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  Speaker 2: haven't I. So let's stip into it. We're going to
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  Speaker 2: link in the show notes to the homework letter that
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  Speaker 2: we used to send to school with our kids. It's
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  Speaker 2: kind of just become part of our culture, and you
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  Speaker 2: know what, like our family culture. I mean, and I've
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  Speaker 2: probably I've probably softened my stance since I originally wrote
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  Speaker 2: the letter.
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  Speaker 3: But basically the letter.
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  Speaker 2: Says, dear teacher, we love you, are so glad that
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  Speaker 2: you care about our kids and that you're doing the
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  Speaker 2: great work that you do. Just want to let you
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  Speaker 2: know we're not going to be encouraging our kids to
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  Speaker 2: do homework. Now. This is for our primary school age children, right.
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  Speaker 2: We don't do this for the high schoolers. It's for
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  Speaker 2: our primary school age kids. And the idea is we're
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  Speaker 2: basically saying we want our kids to love learning, and
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  Speaker 2: homework seems to be a pretty reliable way to help
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  Speaker 2: kids to hate learning. And undermine their curiosity. Plus, we
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: want them involved in life after school. We don't want
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: them coming home and having to pull a second shift.
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  Speaker 2: Let's get them outside playing, going to the beach, going
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  Speaker 2: to the park, riding, they're bike seeing friends. As long
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  Speaker 2: as they're not playing video games all afternoon or something
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  Speaker 2: like that. We really want our kids to be engaged
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  Speaker 2: in life. That's the essence of the letter.
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  Speaker 4: And I think for the most part, as a result
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  Speaker 4: of the way we see things, our kids have had
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  Speaker 4: a pretty balanced childhood.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And you know what's interesting is.
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  Speaker 4: The neighbors and enjoy family time without that added stress
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  Speaker 4: and strain of having to meet deadlines at six, seven,
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  Speaker 4: eight ten. It's crazy.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they seem to graduate primary school and do Okay,
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  Speaker 2: we haven't had any ducks of primary school. But I mean,
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  Speaker 2: who's really got that on their Twitter account profile?
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  Speaker 3: Right?
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  Speaker 2: Who's saying I was the ducks of grade six? I'm
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  Speaker 2: something special. That's not what it's about, right, It's about
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  Speaker 2: enjoying childhood.
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  Speaker 4: I'm really interested on your take on senior years because
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  Speaker 4: obviously you've ignored that it's a different kettle of fish
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  Speaker 4: that we're dealing with. By the time our kids are
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  Speaker 4: in year ten, eleven, and twelve. What things can we
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  Speaker 4: do as parents to kind of help our kids find
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  Speaker 4: balance in these senior years when there is so much
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  Speaker 4: pressure to conform and to perform so that they can
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  Speaker 4: reach their goals.
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  Speaker 2: Before I answer that question, it just occurred to me,
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  Speaker 2: I have never in my life seen a kettle of fish.
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  Speaker 2: I wonder where that came from. I'm sorry, have you
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  Speaker 2: ever seen a kettle of fish? Actually, you're from New Zealand,
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  Speaker 2: you probably have.
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  Speaker 4: I haven't seen a kettle of fish.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, but I know that you've got some stories about
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  Speaker 2: fish heads when your uncle came to visit. So anyway,
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  Speaker 2: I digress this comment that Beck has made the suicide
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  Speaker 2: six doing these six subjects that are so hard because
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  Speaker 2: you want to get a high score to get into university,
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  Speaker 2: the pressure to.
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  Speaker 3: Get those year twelve scores.
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  Speaker 2: I love how she says this is actually about school
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  Speaker 2: marketing brochures and university is using scarcity as a tactic.
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  Speaker 3: Here's what I know. I was a high school failure.
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  Speaker 2: Score in the bottom of fifteen percent in year twelve
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  Speaker 2: in one of my subjects, and my overall score was abysmal.
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  Speaker 2: I was never going to get into university, and yet
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  Speaker 2: in my mid to late twenties, once I'd sort of
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  Speaker 2: grown up a little bit, my brain was working the
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  Speaker 2: way it needed to. I went back to Taife and
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  Speaker 2: then I went to school and I ended up getting
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  Speaker 2: a PhD.
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  Speaker 3: I did undergrad and then.
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  Speaker 2: Postgraduate psychology studies and got a PhD. Didn't finish till
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  Speaker 2: my thirties. It certainly was a slow, hard way to
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  Speaker 2: do it, but I wouldn't change it for the world.
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  Speaker 2: I think that it made me a better student to
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  Speaker 2: go back later and have that The idea that our
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  Speaker 2: children have got to get high school so that they
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  Speaker 2: can get into university, and the only way to get
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  Speaker 2: into university is to get those high schools is a
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  Speaker 2: complete falsehood. I usily and totally reject it.
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  Speaker 3: Kylie. You will back me up on this.
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  Speaker 2: Our approach with our kids has been we hope that
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  Speaker 2: you really enjoy year twelve. We're not going to ask
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  Speaker 2: you to study, We're not going to put any pressure
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  Speaker 2: on you whatsoever, and we're going to encourage you to
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  Speaker 2: take a gap year or two or three and go
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  Speaker 2: to university when you know what you want to do
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  Speaker 2: and you're ready to do the learning.
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  Speaker 4: That intrinsic motivation to learn is so important or else
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  Speaker 4: it's just so hard. There's no other word for it.
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  Speaker 3: It's hard. Yeah, So point made.
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  Speaker 2: Rebecca Sparrow, Thank you for your brilliant insights and for
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  Speaker 2: sharing what you've done, and hopefully, hopefully the things that
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  Speaker 2: we've talked about just now support and add a little
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  Speaker 2: bit of weight around that. There's plenty of research evidence
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  Speaker 2: that we could quote, but I just wanted to share
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  Speaker 2: this and talk about it briefly because we're now into
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  Speaker 2: the school year and things have started to heat up.
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  Speaker 2: The pressure is on, people are finally getting into that
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  Speaker 2: routine of school, and I thought it was worth discussing kindly.
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  Speaker 2: After the break, let's talk about something else that's been
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  Speaker 2: in the news lately, New South Wales talking about changing
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  Speaker 2: up school hours.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: Our Screens Creating Tension at Home Betweens, Teens and Screens
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: Bye today at Happy families dot com. Are you slash shop?
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers Now and Today we're
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  Speaker 4: talking about school homework and school hours. New South Wales
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  Speaker 4: seems to be changing things up a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: Well, at this point, they're talking about what it might
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  Speaker 2: look like to try to make school hours more useful
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  Speaker 2: for families. They're suggesting that nine till three or thereabouts
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  Speaker 2: isn't really working for a lot of families. And from
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  Speaker 2: what I'm reading, Kylie, and you actually read more about
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  Speaker 2: this than I have, it seems like they're looking at
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  Speaker 2: bringing the school start back to about seven thirty in
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  Speaker 2: the morning and finishing early afternoon.
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  Speaker 4: Well, look, when we were living in Wollongong, there was
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  Speaker 4: actually an all boys school edmund Rice College who were
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  Speaker 4: already doing that, and that was ten years ago. And
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  Speaker 4: recognizing that teenager's brains work a little bit different to
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  Speaker 4: the way ours do.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm surprised by this because most most of
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  Speaker 2: the articles that I've read over the last let's say
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  Speaker 2: fifteen years had suggested that school times need to be
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: pushed back later because teenage brains aren't awake enough to
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  Speaker 2: get the learning happening. So to see this push seems
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  Speaker 2: a little bit counter to what science, psychological science, brain
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  Speaker 2: science tells us about the teen brain. However, we've also
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  Speaker 2: seen that you can get your kids up nice and
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  Speaker 2: early and their brains can kick into gear and they
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  Speaker 2: can do their learning in the mornings.
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  Speaker 3: That's something that we do in our family anyway.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm not so sure how rigid that brain science
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  Speaker 2: is and how accurate it is, and how much flexibility
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  Speaker 2: there could be around that.
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  Speaker 4: I'm obviously not a teenager, but I know as an adult,
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  Speaker 4: I actually get so much more done when I get
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  Speaker 4: up early, and I use those early hours to just
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  Speaker 4: you know, kind of get in and get it all
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  Speaker 4: done and then have the afternoon to relax. And so
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  Speaker 4: schools that are actually starting earlier obviously finish earlier, which
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  Speaker 4: means that from about two o'clock the kids are coming home,
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  Speaker 4: they're able to have a break, they can do their homework.
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  Speaker 3: Homework, homework, did you just say that homework?
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  Speaker 4: Unfortunately, it is a part of our lives, whether we
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  Speaker 4: like it or not. And our kids obviously are reading
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  Speaker 4: and spelling, even though we don't do all of the
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  Speaker 4: worksheets and things. I feel like it just creates more
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  Speaker 4: balance for our kids.
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  Speaker 2: What about for families where both parents are working, though,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, doesn't this make it harder, not easier.
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  Speaker 3: A seven o'clock or a seven thirty drop off?
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  Speaker 2: And what are you supposed to do with the kids
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  Speaker 2: at one o'clock or two o'clock when school's over? How
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  Speaker 2: does that work if you don't knock off till five
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  Speaker 2: or six? Like, I don't know that there's any easy
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  Speaker 2: answer here, but surely this is complicated, right, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: is it a good answer?
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  Speaker 4: I think you're exactly right, justin there is no easy
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  Speaker 4: answer to this.
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  Speaker 1: This.
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  Speaker 4: In order for this to work and actually be embraced
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  Speaker 4: in the community, it would require an entire shift in
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  Speaker 4: the way we do life.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like structurally, I mean, I'm really in favor
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  Speaker 2: of it in a lot of ways. Perhaps it'll encourage
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  Speaker 2: more flexibility in workplace hours. Maybe more parents will say, well,
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to work mornings, you work afternoons, do you
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  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like this could fundamentally change, like
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  Speaker 2: you said, the way that families do life, in the
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  Speaker 2: way even that the workplaces engage with their employees.
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  Speaker 3: What are they doing overseas?
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  Speaker 4: So this was something that I actually found really intriguing.
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  Speaker 4: In Finland, which is often recognized as having one of
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  Speaker 4: the most progressive educational models, school usually starts around eight
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  Speaker 4: or nine and usually finishes around two pm, but in Brazil,
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  Speaker 4: the school days often run from seven to twelve pm,
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  Speaker 4: with students typically heading home after school to share lunch
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  Speaker 4: with their family. So systemically within their community, it would
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: suggest that families all come together at lunchtime.
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  Speaker 3: That's fascinating.
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  Speaker 2: Again, you'd have to you have to be working out
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  Speaker 2: how work could be juggled around this kind of shift.
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  Speaker 2: But it's really really interesting. Have you got any other countries.
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to guess that maybe it's stereotypical, but from
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: what I know, I'm going to guess that the Asian
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  Speaker 2: countries are doing more hours, not less.
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  Speaker 4: Typical school day in China lasts from about seven th
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  Speaker 4: eighty till five pm.
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  Speaker 2: Wow. Don't they go to school like six days a
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  Speaker 2: week as well?
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  Speaker 4: It doesn't say that in here. I have heard that,
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  Speaker 4: but it also acknowledges that children will often go home
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  Speaker 4: for up to two hours during their lunch break.
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  Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's interesting.
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  Speaker 4: So they're actually not at school much longer when you
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: take in a two hour lunch break than our kids are,
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  Speaker 4: but they've got that big break in the middle, and
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  Speaker 4: in some ways it feels like it just drags the
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  Speaker 4: day out.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: In other ways though, it might be a nice welcome break,
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  Speaker 2: although I can imagine going back in the afternoon would
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: be pretty tough. I think our kids might resist that. Hey,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: we would really love to know what you think about this.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Jump onto our Facebook page and let us know. We'll
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: have a social post up about the changes and asking
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: your take on what would work best or whether things
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: should just stay the same.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Come and just leave it alone, please.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast, as always, is produced by Justin
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Rulan from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow on the podcast, do other parents worry about how
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: to let go of their eldest? Kelly Ovington sent us
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: an email say, Miotis is going to be sixteen next year.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I'm so overprotective. At what point do I let her
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: make mistakes and learn from them. This is one that
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Kylie and I have got a lot of experience in
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: watching the kids grow up, and we can't wait to
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: share some ideas on this topic. If you'd like more
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: info about making your family happier, we'd love it if
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: you check things out at Happy Families dot com dot au.