Latest / The Daily Writer / Tricia Brouk & Alexandra Stockwell on Co-Writing “Vital Conversations About Menopause”

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Tricia Brouk & Alexandra Stockwell on Co-Writing “Vital Conversations About Menopause” · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for riding success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter Kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to bring you this compelling and insightful conversation with my friends Trisha Brooke and her co-author, Alexander Stockwell, on a topic that's a new one for this show, and that topic is menopause.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Trisha and Alexandra share why they wrote their new book called The Invitation: Vital Conversations About Menopause, as well as their unique writing process together to bring this book to life.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: But before I get into the specifics and I introduce them, I want to share why I wanted to have them as guests, given that this is kind of an unusual topic for a writing podcast.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this really boils down to four reasons, which I want to share with you now.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I think it's important to support your friends who are launching books and building a business.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: That is kind of just a vital principle of business.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Support people who you care about, your friends, family, colleagues, and so forth.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of thing number one.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Trisha was coming out with this book, and I want to support her in whatever ways that I can.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Second of all, my wife just turned 50, just a couple months ago, in fact, and menopause has been a big topic of discussion in our house the last couple of years and probably will be for a while longer.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: The third reason is that a large percentage of people that I interact with on a daily basis are women, specifically in the, I'm going to say the rough age range of 40s to 60s.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a lot of exceptions, of course, to that, but a good chunk of the people in my network and my podcast audience are in this age group.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, it's women who are going into the age of menopause soon.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're dealing with it now, or having been through it in the not too distant past, it's still something that's probably on their minds, and they've probably continued to talk to younger women about it at length.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that whenever you serve a particular audience, it's important to understand where those people are coming from and what's important to them and what kinds of things they're going through.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, this was a great opportunity to learn about menopause because it affects every woman on some level, and therefore it also affects the vast majority of men as well.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Unless, you know, that probably the only guys this doesn't affect is like if you're a single guy who does not have a partner or a spouse, um, and you don't interact with any women, you know, over like the age of 30 or something, maybe that doesn't affect you.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: But for the vast majority of men, this affects us as well, uh, because we care about the women in our lives.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the fourth reason that I wanted to have this conversation and do this interview is that I confess that I have never taken much time to learn about the topic of menopause.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as writers, it's our job to be curious and to seek knowledge about a wide variety of topics.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And especially if you're a ghostwriter like I am, it's really important to know something, at least a little something, about as many topics as you can because the more things that you know about, the better you can serve people whose books you're writing.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, with that as the foundation of my interest in this topic, let me tell you a bit about my esteemed guests.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Trisha Brook helps high-performing professionals transform into industry thought leaders through the power of authentic storytelling.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: She founded the Big Talk Academy, where she certifies speakers in the art of public speaking.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: She was the executive producer of Speaker 2 Dare and TEDx Lincoln Square, and is the producer and host of The Big Talk, which is an award-winning podcast and YouTube channel.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to being the author of The Influential Voice, Trisha curates and hosts the Speaker Salon in New York City and is being featured in a new documentary called Big Stages.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Alexander Stockwell MD, known as the Intimacy Doctor, is a relationship and intimacy coach and an intimate marriage expert who specializes in coaching ambitious, successful couples to build beautiful, long-lasting, passionate relationships.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Her mission is to change the cultural narrative so people everywhere know that intimate relationships can flourish and improve with time.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Alexandra is also the host of the Intimate Marriage Podcast, as well as the author of Uncompromising Intimacy.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So in our conversation today, we focus on really two main things related to menopause.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, we dig into a basic understanding of what it is and how it affects women, with a view toward how men can better understand it to support the women in our lives.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Trisha and Alexandra also dive into why and how they wrote the invitation, particularly since the book doesn't neatly fit into their typical brands or what they normally do.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: They also share their publishing strategy and why they approach the book as a conversation rather than in a typical nonfiction book format.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'll be honest, I felt pretty out of my depth on this topic, so I'm really grateful for Trisha and Alexander's patience and openness in this conversation.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that you find this inspiring, not just as a writer, but also as a human being as well, whether you're a woman who has been through or will go through menopause, or as a man who wants to better understand and support the women in your life.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: The invitation releases on September 13th, so I encourage you to support Trisha and Alexandra and pre-order your copy.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also a link in the show notes, by the way.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now I do want to mention before we get into this that in this episode, we're discussing some mature themes.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you typically listen to this episode with younger kids in the room or in the car, you may want to stash this episode in your queue so you can listen to it privately at a later time.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: All right, with that said, let's get to the conversation with Trisha Brook and Alexandra Stockwell.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Trisha and Alexandra, it is a pleasure to have you on the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Trisha, you've been here a time or two before.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: But Alexandra, this is your first appearance.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is an honor to have you both.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, and thank you for having us together.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate being back and being back with my dear friend Alexandra.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So this is kind of a unique conversation for uh for a variety of reasons.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is that we're talking about a topic that I have no personal experience in, which of course is menopause and the creation of a book uh about menopause.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why I'm I'm super fascinated to dive into this topic.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, because I'm a really curious person, but number two, both of you have done so many incredible things in your life, and now you have created this incredible resource.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really interested in diving into this topic.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the first question that I would ask you both is this book is not something that really fits into either one of your brands.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned this in the book, and I'm fascinated that you have crafted this book together while it's not really part of what you normally do.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why this book on menopause that to some of your audience may seem to come out of left field, but obviously it's something you care very much about.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can you speak to that?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to jump in here first, Alexandra, if I may, to also set up some context for the audience.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: You and I were having a conversation about uh future collaboration.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things you said is, What are you working on?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I just wrote a book about menopause, co-authored a book about menopause.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what was so amazing is your response.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to have you on the podcast to talk about it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: My wife is going through menopause, and I thought, this is why we do it, why this is why we did it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you being so courageous to you're our first interview, and having our first interview be from a man who has a wife who is in interested in this book feels so meaningful.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to acknowledge you and thank you for having us on to have this conversation and also not being part of our brand.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: What is part of our brand is that Alexandra and I both show up authentically and in service of our audience, and we're not afraid to speak our truth.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of how we're approaching this.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of a small answer to the bigger question, and I'm gonna give it over to Alexandra now.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I think inherent in our conversation today is how relevant menopause is, despite being invisible consciously and unconsciously.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, a woman likely knows she's going through menopause, but it's not really something that's in the room, even though it's relevant for 51% of the population at some point in their lives.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so we came to this collaboration really with the same curiosity that you bring to this conversation, Kent, except that we did have some experiences respectively.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so it felt a little out of left field for us when we began.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: And it's relatively earlier in the book, I believe, that we talk about how it's not a part of our brand.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: Tricia is a fantastic speaker coach, and I'm a relationship and intimacy expert, but I'm not focused, I work with couples, not I do work with women a little bit, but menopause just isn't really a focus in my work, generally speaking.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: So we thought, and most of all, as a physician, I feel super responsible not to represent myself as, you know, I'm not going to be prescribing hormones.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have any medical input to provide here, despite being a physician.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so we thought, yeah, this is totally out of left field.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: But the deeper that we went into the topic, the less not related to our brands it feels.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: Superficially, it's not related to our brands.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: But I'll say, and maybe you want to add, Tricia, you are all about everyone and specifically women using their voice authentically, claiming their experience, valuing their contribution, which it turns out, for us anyway, is very much part and parcel of the menopause conversation.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, I'm focused on intimacy, sensuality, connection between couples, mostly heteronormative.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_04: That's just whom I work with.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_04: And sure enough, menopause is related to that in the evolving identity for a woman and a marriage that comes with menopause.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_04: So I think from a marketer's perspective, it's not an on-brand topic.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: As humans in service, it actually is closer for the same reason that you find yourself surprised, but finding it a relevant topic for this podcast.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, Alexandra.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to add to that if I may, Ken.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: The what you're saying about being on brand and related to us as humans is so true.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what we uh attempted to do, and I believe we successfully did this, is show the diversity of experience of menopause and to make it clear that you are not alone in this experience.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that is absolutely on brand for the big talk.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I never want anyone to feel alone.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I want everyone's voices to be heard, and I am diversity and inclusion are part of our value.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think being able to be the courageous speaker who comes out and says, hey, everybody, this is a thing and I want to talk about it so that you don't feel invisible, so that you don't feel alone.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I reached out to Alexandra specifically because I have immense respect for Alexandra, but I also felt um a relationship, a tender relationship that I knew we could have with one another about this.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let me uh and I love those responses, by the way.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what a beautiful way to look at this.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So probably half of my listeners are guys.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess for the for the benefit of the guys who are listening right now who don't think about this topic, uh, most of them ever, probably, or at least very little.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I know every woman's experience is different, but generally, what is going on in a woman in a woman's body during menopause?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: What kinds of things is a is a typical woman going through menopause experiencing and how does that affect them in their everyday life in terms of productivity, mood, uh, attitude, hopefulness, hopelessness.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, help us understand, really, for the sake of the guys, what is a woman actually going through during menopause?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's kind of fun to have a three-way conversation because then we have to do this like look about who's gonna respond next.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: That's true.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's a whole curation, but it feels like I'll take this one.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: So it works.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: I want to start first of all by saying I have the utmost respect for men, and our husbands have have been curious and responsive in just the way that you have been so far in this conversation and just to have it, Ken.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's the sort of thing that doesn't come up as a conversation topic, but my experience is that when it does, men are curious.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I just want to really be kind of warm and non-judgmental and grateful if you're a man that you're still listening.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_04: And our goal is that this is helpful.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: There's absolutely nothing that's going to be said in this podcast that you should have already known.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: So just take that sense of, oh my gosh, off the table.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: This is this is welcome to our emerging world.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_04: That's the first thing.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: The second thing is that until relatively recently, when both for reasons related to pharmaceutical products and um an association developing that trains doctors on how to handle menopause and a bunch of other factors in society, it also wasn't really something that came up for women.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: And so there would be many women who would be listening if they hadn't already had their experience with great interest, also not knowing the answer to the question you ask.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_04: And in fact, I think menopause, while maybe it's not as severe, it's a little reminiscent of stories we might hear from days gone by or a very, very sheltered, maybe extremely religious or other um kinds of influences where a girl gets her first period, she starts bleeding and she thinks she's dying because she's never heard what menstruation is and that periods are normal and women's bodies take on this cyclical nature.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: And similarly, all kinds of things can happen in a woman's body, which gets to your question.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_04: But building on what Trisha said, there's a huge diversity of experience.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I personally have had almost no symptoms at all.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: And so if I were answering only out of my lived experience, I'd say, well, not that much.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: And then, of course, there are women who have what's called brain fog, and that is a good description of it, where they just can't concentrate, their memories are shot.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_04: We have someone that we interviewed who's included in the book, who she used to pride herself on being very detailed and organized as a professional, and things were falling through the cracks, like way beyond what she could have comprehended would ever be part of her experience.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: There are all kinds of physical symptoms.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: I think one of the ones that is most common, the most commonly known symptoms are hot flashes, night sweats, and a dehydrated vagina, dry vagina, which then leads to painful sex.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I think the perhaps the most influential symptom in a woman's life when she's with a partner is sex can become painful because there isn't enough lubrication to make the whole thing pleasurable.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_04: However, there's weight gain, there's a whole range.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: Those are the ones that are coming to mind, but I really just want to convey that there's a whole range.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so if you're experiencing anything peculiar, it's likely within the normal range of menopause.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: Including not experiencing anything at all.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: There's nothing wrong with you if you don't have hot flashes.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_04: There's nothing wrong with you if you do, there's nothing wrong if they come five times a day, there's nothing wrong if they come once every three months.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: The the range is sort of incomprehensible considering that it's a physiological process.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to add to everything you said, Alexandra, which is so um comprehensive and uh articulate.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's also the whole thing around fear.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know this until we started interviewing people.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Before a woman goes through menopause or experiences menopause, they have this, many women have this fear around, oh my gosh, what's gonna happen?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, is it gonna be as horrible as my mother's?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: What is what is it gonna be like?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this kind of external fear that we live with because we don't talk about it.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I say my productivity, my vitality is better than ever.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I am not experiencing brain fog, I am experiencing hot flashes that I am managing myself through my own inner work.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm for everyone who's listening, again, I'm not a doctor and I'm not suggesting that you manage your hormones the way I do, but this is for me how what it worked, what works for me.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really important to sort of paint this picture of the reason that I wanted to talk about this is I was on birth control so that I wouldn't get pregnant because I never wanted kids.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my personal, again, my personal choice, my personal decision with how I wanted to live my life as an adult.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: When I decided to go off the pill, because at 50, that's what they ask you to do.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, okay, what's gonna happen?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And fear set in, and I don't experience fear ever in my life.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I experienced fear, I thought, why is that happening?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because nobody's talking about this, because there was no conversation about you might have an incredible menopause experience.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: You might not need hormone replacement therapy, you might have a conversation that you you can, you know, uh have a holistic approach.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we're we're having this conversation.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it is called the invitation, vital conversations about menopause, because we invite everyone to come to the table to have a conversation around their experience.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I also found that it was very important for me to speak out about how I'm more vital, more sensual, more powerful, more productive.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been all of those things, but at 52, game on.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's even better.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I share that because I want every all the listeners, the men and the women, to trust that this is a sexy, new, incredible chapter.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And having conversations and and having the support of your healthcare team and your community and your partner and your friends can support you during this chapter of menopause.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's a lot to take in.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's and I have like 58 questions based on all that, but I we don't have time for a 16-hour podcast interview.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I do want to ask this.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: I want to just highlight I love that that is your response.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: And if that is the response that many people have, then we don't walk around in the blind, like just not seeing anymore.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that is such a wonderful human response.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like, let's talk about it, let's learn more.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: And our goal is not to have all the answers, our goal is to inspire more of the questions.
• 21:07
  unknown: Beautifully.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So here's here, maybe I'll just dive right into the weeds on this.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what I see.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've seen this the last couple of years.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a college professor for a long time.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then a couple of years ago, I left that work to do basically author coaching and ghostwriting full-time, um, things like this podcast.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I run a membership community and a mastermind.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And basically, my whole life is books and writing.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually did a, I know this is gonna sound super nerdy and geeky, but I was curious a couple months ago.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I had an inkling that I talked to more women just in my work life than I did to men.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I actually started measuring it.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so on any given day, I talked to about 65 to 70 percent female versus the other versus guys.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm most of the people that I'm talking to are female.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And just because of the nature of what I do, and the people that I tend to talk with, most of those females, I would say are 35 and older in the 35 to 70 range, if I had to just guess to meet a number.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the themes that I have picked up on, um I I would say it's even stronger than a theme.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is a bright headlight, somebody shining right in my eyes because it's so obvious.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is that most most of these women, now again I'm I'm generalizing, but I would say most of these women, I feel like nobody has really told them, particularly at kind of this phase of their life.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Most of them, their kids have left the home if they have kids, they're kind of starting in the second chapter.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: I get I get the distinct impression that nobody has really told them to go for their dreams, particularly in terms of writing that book or starting that business or reaching that goal.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And anytime that I try to encourage or coach or counsel a woman sort of in that phase of life, I always get the impression that I get that that this is kind of a new thing for her to some degree, that nobody has really given her permission to do these things.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm not even sure what my question around this is, other than it ties in directly to the themes that you're talking about, having this new chapter in life.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious what both of your responses to that might be in terms of many times you have you have women who are at this stage of life, and I feel like they're it's like, man, you're just reaching your peak of creativity and wisdom, and you have all this stuff to offer to the world.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And yet it's kind of the time of life when a lot of society says, Well, you're kind of your best years are sort of behind you, and it's kind it's time to maybe start winding down.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: At least these are some of the things I've talked about with my wife, and that's been her experience.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I feel like I'm rambling a bit here, but uh, I'm just curious what your response to that is.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And is this a real thing that a lot of a lot of women experience?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And how can we, as a society, help women more um to go for their dreams?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: That was a really rambling question.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, it was it was wonderful.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: We're just seeing who takes it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_04: Trisha, do you want to go first?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to reflect how incredible you are uh to share your insights into who your community is and and how to help them.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's uh one of the many reasons that I respect and care about you.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you used a word wisdom that I really, really want to highlight.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: There is so much wisdom to being in this phase, this chapter of life when it comes to being a woman.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And part of why we decided to have this conversation inside of this book is to empower other women and their families and communities to engage in the conversation so that they can stay empowered, remain visible, and continue to contribute at the level that they're that we are contributing now.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's really one of the reasons, one of the many reasons.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so much societal pressure put on women to become small, to become invisible.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Nora Efron wrote wrote about her her neck and starting to wear a scarf at a certain age and never showing her neck again.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're trying to illustrate is that there is a diversity of experience inside of a process in our bodies that is natural and beautiful.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if we start talking about it and embracing the process, then giving ourselves permission to be exactly who we are.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're speaking to what you're saying, Kent, which is then women all of over the world can give themselves permission to be empowered and to reach the next level and to keep showing up because contributing our wisdom to the world only supports humanity and back to brand.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: That is my that is my brand.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's Alexandra's brand too.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Alexandra, I'd love to hear from you on that.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I have two directions I want to go and also honor that you have articulated something so real that I imagine everyone in your audience and most people at large who are women anyway would just resonate deeply with what you've expressed with kindness about our conundrum.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: So, in contrast to Tricia, who's already said that she has no children by choice, and that has always been her desire.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: I have four children.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: I had children in my 20s, my 30s, and my 40s.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: At this time, my oldest will soon be 27, and my youngest is 11.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I come from the perspective of, and I'm a physician, I have a thriving business serving couples around deepening their emotional connection and sensual, sexual intimacy.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I do a lot that is meaningful in the world, and as mothers, our identity, even if as is true for so many people, because at every level of socioeconomic status, we are just incredibly busy in our society.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: So whether it's working two or three shifts in the factory in McDonald's or it's as a you know top subspecialty surgeon or whatever it is, we are all so busy.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: So the percentage of time we're spending with our children may be restricted.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have any data to share on that, but just I'll just leave it there.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_04: Our identity is still incredibly interwoven with being a parent and being a mother and having that be the undeniable legacy, whether we whether that's filled with joy or complication or whatever unique mix that is, our unequivocal legacy is our children.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: And the thing about menopause and beyond is that there is this invitation, just like our book, the invitation to really expand our identity in any ways in which it's been restricted through parenting and tending our children.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: Now, of course, we're still parents and grandparents of older children and so forth, but there's a real what I would call freedom and inner spaciousness that emerges, but of course, it's a dull ache for some women.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really a question of how to navigate that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_04: And then the second thing that I would say, which belongs in this conversation, is that the societal context and our longevity have evolved much faster than our actual humanity in navigating that.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so what I mean is that it used to be that there was very little life to live after reaching menopause.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_04: And now a woman, it's not guaranteed, obviously, but we can look forward to 40 productive years after menopause or more.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so there's really a whole new terrain.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's like whatever the Wild West was in American history, menopause has that promise for a woman who has vitality and is right with her life.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so one of the things that emerged through our conversations with one another and the various people that we interviewed is how you feel about yourself, how you feel about your life, your willingness to look at things in new ways, to shed old ways of thinking and interacting with yourself and your spouse, and open to the new ones that now become timely and nourishing.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: That with that kind of an approach, such remarkable things are available to the point that we wonder why we're even asking these questions.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: But it takes a kind of a pivot that can't be prescribed, can only be leaned into, invited, inspired to look at what becomes possible and not just be focused so much on what's lost.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's a beautiful way of expressing that.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because with any transition time, isn't it true?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's male or female or whatever stage of life, with every transition point, something is lost, but then also something is gained.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wonder if a lot of people are not held back because at those natural transition points of life, we don't want to let go of the things that maybe we should gently set aside.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't want to embrace the things that we should pick up and move forward with because change is hard for us.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: And for a child entering adolescence, that's not a problem.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like what's ahead is is more exciting.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: It gets our attention, you know.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: Not at all.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_04: But somehow the transition out of the menstrual phase, menstruating phase, we kind of look back and are much more aware of what we're giving up.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: But it really doesn't need to be that way.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: We literally celebrate puberty.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: We literally have celebrations around puberty.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so why not celebrate the next phase of our human evolution?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I also want to just highlight something.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my husband, Joe Ricci, who um is in this book, this was his idea.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that my husband, a man, planted the seed that I should write a book about menopause shows you what's possible when it comes to conversation.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and because you are so generously having this conversation with us, Kent, it also shows that as a partner, as a uh male-identifying partner, you do not have to be afraid of your wife who is going to enter this phase.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you have an opportunity to embrace and to have this conversation together.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you the two of you don't have to necessarily mourn the loss of anything.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: Good point.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's more about expanding what's next.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's just a really it's a it's a remarkable conversation.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think again, Alexandra said so beautifully, we're not here to um solve any problem or to have all the answers.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: We do not.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: We are here to spark conversations so that nobody feels alone.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get back to the conversation here in just a moment, but I want to pause and give a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: For years, my go-to choice for book formatting software has been Vellum.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Vellum gives you the power to build, style, and preview your book and have a blast while doing it.
• 33:55
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• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Best of all, you can download Vellum and play with your book's formatting to your heart's content.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: You only have to purchase when you're ready to publish.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when you do, Vellum can create ebooks for every platform.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: To download Vellum for free, go to tryvellum.com slash daily.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, let's get back to the conversation.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: The way that you have structured your book, The Invitation, is really interesting and unique.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know that you had structured it kind of as a conversation when I was looking at the PDF that you sent, Trisha, and I was so pleased to discover that because it was something fresh and different.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious if you can both speak to why you decided to write this book as basically you're reading a conversation between two good friends versus a traditional nonfiction book format.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Alexandra, would you like to start?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I do want to add, just because it's writers who are listening to this conversation, we are good friends, but I don't know that I would have exactly said that before we started.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_04: Any time you want to co-author a book and have conversations on something you care about, that's a really good way to really deepen a friendship.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_04: So the fact is that in addition to moving towards everything we've already discussed, Trisha and I both have very full lives personally and professionally.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_04: And when Trisha invited me to co-author this book, I don't know that it was my top priority, but it was pretty close to it that there be ease in the writing process.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_04: That we didn't want, I didn't want to be separately writing and reading one another's work and making revisions and all of the things that I mean, we've each written a book ourselves.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: So we we know what that process entails.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I really was not interested in signing up for like being in Trisha's head and having Trisha in my head and having a Google Doc that was just the color of the rainbow with all of the different iterations.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: Well, what like I didn't want that.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_04: That was a total downer to something that otherwise felt really joyful.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I said, let's let's plan the themes, clarify our intention, set things up.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, Trisha lives in Manhattan.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'll fly out for the weekend and let's record our conversations and then use that transcript to create the book.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: Now, I didn't know for sure that we would end up with the book, the manuscript actually reading like a conversation, but I definitely knew that I wanted to create it that way because in conversation things arise and Trisha gets to represent her own voice, and I get to represent my voice, and we converse, but we're not trying to convince one another.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_04: We were never looking to kind of neutralize Trisha's spice and my spice in order to have one voice that blended them both.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: That requires a kind of effort that just was of no interest to either of us in the process.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_04: And there's something in conversation that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I've represented my life, my views, my questions, my experience, and Trisha has represented hers.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_04: And then, as it turns out, having the book read as a essentially a conversation, then it's it's both a direct and inferred invitation for the reader to represent their voice and their answers and what is true for them in a way that is welcome.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not even a matter of aligning with anything in particular that either one of us said.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: And that quality, we don't really have an English word that conveys that quality, but that quality is one of the most essential elements of our message.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: Love that.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have said this many times to Alexandra, asking her to co-author with me, she was the only person.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if she had said no, I probably I'm certain I would not have created this book.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to co-author it with Alexandra.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a connection that I just felt like it was the right connection with Alexandra.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm forever grateful that you said yes.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: And part of the process was creating intimacy so that we both felt we could talk openly and intimately about our personal unique experience, and also invite three colleagues who were having very different experiences so that we can represent all types of women and all kinds of experiences.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we also were very intentional in inviting a woman who her platform is menopause in the workplace, so that we could open up a conversation about the diversity and the inclusion and equity for women in the workplace who are experiencing menopause.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think being able to have the conversation and have that intimacy between our conversations and even with the people we interviewed, they were so open with us.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: That level of intimacy not only empowered us and created this very beautiful, rich friendship.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I talk about this on my podcast.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: When you left from that weekend, Alexandra, I missed you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: I felt, I felt a loss because it was such a beautiful, beautiful conversation and a beautiful weekend.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think being able to create a level of intimacy by having the conversation read that way will hopefully give the reader an opportunity to feel connected to themselves in their intimate way and what their intimate experience of menopause is.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I want to add one more thing, which is that when it comes to and and this may have political reverberations, but it's not my intention.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: I don't mean to be implying that you'll see what I mean, but there's a way in which women's bodies were told so much by other people how to feel and how to relate, whether we're talking about doctors or societal expectations, and there's something in the format that really takes away a hierarchical structure or any sense of what a woman's experience should be, and really serves as an invitation to explore, honor, and accept whatever any particular reader's experience actually is.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Can I add to that as well?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the experience for the reader is so important and something that we expect that we will share here is uh I have a friend who is a man and he shared with me privately what was going on at home.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, um, it sounds like she's experiencing menopause, but perhaps you share the book with her, and maybe it will help.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he said that he shared the book with his partner, and she burst into tears and said, I was afraid to tell you that I'm experiencing menopause, and now we can read this together.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the kind of intimacy that we're hoping to create.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, what a beautiful story! And isn't that the whole point of the book to begin with?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: To invite people into conversation.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that's exactly what you want to have happen.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_04: Although I think we envisioned that the conversations would be among women, and we that's just one example.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: We have many of actually it's a conversation between partners that is also opening.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_04: So like it's all good.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: We just couldn't have anticipated that.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to speak really quickly to your writers who are listening.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because we were so intentional with how we created the book, we set up multiple recording devices.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: We recorded on Zoom so that we would have the audio and the video, and we had it connected to Otter.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: We technically we we were very intentional with how we crafted all of the content, and then everything lived in a Google Drive so that our ghostwriter could collate all of the content and really, really create the juicy book that we wanted that we wanted out of this material.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it is also possible for you to create a book in a weekend.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you're really intentional about it, you know what you want to do ahead of time.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and I was gonna ask about this, Tricia, too, with the idea that you did have a writer who took these transcripts and crafted a book out of it.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of interesting opportunities for writers these days in doing that exact kind of work because there are a lot of people who don't want to sit down and have to mess with all.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: All the things that are involved in writing a book.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: As a ghostwriter, I talk to people like that all the time.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there are, I would say there's more opportunity than ever for writers who want to serve people by taking this puzzle box of material and dumping it out and crafting something really wonderful out of it.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_04: Although I will say our uh ghostwriter is an experienced ghostwriter, and the process of taking our transcripts and creating something was definitely a different skill set than the typical ghostwriting experience.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so she's excited to be able to offer that to other people having done this for the first time, but it is a different skill set.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, maybe you could train people on that very skill set because I think there are some unique elements to it.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that is a really good point, Alexandra.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: I work from transcripts a lot with clients.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I oftentimes find that, and this is a little side road.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: I oftentimes find that a the final product of a book is a mix of some of my own stuff that I'm putting into the book, uh, as well as sometimes if an author has some raw material like blog posts or podcasts or or whatever it is, speeches, slides, other kinds of content, social media.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: But then we have the transcripts, and you know, I think the art of ghostwriting is many times you're taking some of your own ideas to fill out the to round out the material, transcripts, the other stuff, and somehow you've got to craft this whole new thing out of all this material.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it is pretty tedious, uh, and it definitely is a skill set.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, but a lot of people want to do it, and I think it is it's a cool opportunity for writers who are willing to sit down and just work through the tedious nature of writing and make something beautiful out of it because it can be pretty, pretty fun.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Trisha, I wanted to ask you, kind of as we start to wrap this up, um, about the publishing strategy for this.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is a writing podcast, and therefore, you know, we geek out around here about publishing stuff and traditional and self-publishing and all these kinds of things.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you have your own publishing company that you've run the book through.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering if you can talk about the value of doing it that way as opposed to going to let's say a hybrid or traditional publisher type of a format.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to speak to that.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: I my first book, The Influential Voice, was published by Post Hill Press.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved working with them.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was really fun, it was really easy.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: They did an amazing job.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this is not a book for them.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, well, how are we going to do this?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, I think it's time for the big talk to also publish books because the big talk supports speakers, and speakers have books.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so Alexandra and I have been working um with the Big Talk Press, and the team is incredible.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason that it's so much easier than, and Alexandra can speak to self-publishing.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: The reason that it's so much easier and more supportive than self-publishing is the team does all the work.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we get edits, we get to approve the book, the spine, the front cover, the back cover.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not spending time looking for a graphic designer who is gonna design the cover.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not spending time uploading things to Amazon.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so we go back to ease being our word around this process.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted it to be really, really effortless and full of ease.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why the Big Talk Press is publishing our book and will be publishing other books, but also because of the inclusion.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Many publishers want you to have 150,000 followers on LinkedIn.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Until you do, they won't publish your book.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so, as a boutique publishing house, we really want to give authors the opportunity to have their voices heard and to have their books read, which is why I founded the Big Talk Press.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the first book the Big Talk Press is publishing, and super proud of it.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love the idea of taking control, doing things your way, doing them uh in a way that's fresh and doesn't require all these gatekeepers.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, traditional publishers do perform an important service to the world.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but there is something to be said for doing things in your own way, you're not having to wait around a year and a half for a publisher to put a book out there for sure.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: And an advantage along those lines with the big talk press is that, because my book, Uncompromising Intimacy, is self-published, and it required finding a lot of different subcontractors and explaining the vision many times over to each one.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the things that I personally have really enjoyed in working with the Big Talk Press is that we have our main people that we work with, and then they're conveying that vision to each of the people involved in the various moving parts, and that feels wonderful to just have that established and not need to find the right words and wonder did they get it or not.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_04: And we don't know until we see the cover.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_04: We don't have to worry about that because the people on the Big Talk Press team are just very clear and convey that as needed.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you both again so much.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: This has been an amazing conversation, and I appreciate the work that both of you are doing so much.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having us, Ken.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is awesome.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel this weird desire to thank your wife because she clearly is present in a marriage with you that has greatly contributed to how you've navigated this conversation.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you to her as well.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she's way smarter than me, and she's also a lot more fun than me.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: So she should have been the one probably doing this interview.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, no, that's not the conclusion to draw.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_04: This was perfect.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: I just want to acknowledge her too.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that so much.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't that an incredible, amazing conversation?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: I just appreciated Trisha and Alexander so much, not just for making time to be a guest and to talk about their book here on today's episode, but also for being so gracious and kind and patient with all my questions about menopause and also their book process.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I think it's important to, you know, when we're doing podcasts like this and when we're writing books and doing all the things that we do as writers, I think it's really important to not get tunnel vision about how we're living our life.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are a lot of writers and artists, and I suppose you can do this with any industry, where you kind of get this very slim vision of I only want to interact with people who are involved in this thing, and I only want to talk about these certain things.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: I sort of feel like as a human being, uh it's important for us to be curious.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's important for us to be concerned about people who are different than us.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I'm a man, uh I interact with a lot of women on a daily basis.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been married to a woman for uh for quite a long time.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Very happily married, I'm, I would add.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: And guys, for all the guys listening to this, this is a really important topic, particularly if your wife is of a certain age.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is really, really important.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a guy listening, I hope this has encouraged you to learn more about this topic.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if your wife is going through menopause, grab this book.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a woman, grab this book too.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever sex you are, man or woman, grab this book, no matter what age you are.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: I promise there's somebody in your life going through this.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love to support authors who are doing important work, not just to build up their platform and do all those things, and that's important.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, very important.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I support people who write books that really are coming from a place of it's coming from their heart.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know they really are concerned about this issue.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: And this is that kind of a book for Trisha and Alexander.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so thankful for them coming on the show today and talking about the issue of menopause and the topic, but also their book process.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, there are some really cool lessons we can take away from this, not just in terms of learning about the topic, but also some cool ways that you can collaborate with people and write books yourself.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, man, maybe you've been thinking about writing this book on your heart for a long time.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been having some trouble getting it going, grab a collaborator just like Trisha and Alexander have come together to work on this book.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Grab a great collaborator who you trust and get to work on the book.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's a great way to approach this.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no matter what perspective you're coming from and you're how you're coming at this topic of menopause and and writing, uh, from whatever angle, I hope this episode has inspired you.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I really, really hope that you go out and grab Trisha and Alexander's book.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a short book, it's not a super long book, and it's written in a very relatable way, which I appreciate.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: I also encourage you to check out Trisha's website, which is Trisha Brook.com, and Alexandra's website, which is alexandrestockwell.com.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, there will be links in the show notes as well as a link to the book.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I really hope that you grab it and support these two as they launch this book.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right, my friend, as always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.