Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Performance Pathways for the Professional Dancer

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Performance Pathways for the Professional Dancer · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact of Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here, of course, with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Courtney and hey everybody.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Can y'all believe that we are this close to the end of season two?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sad about it.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very sad.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: What are we gonna do once a week?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I, as much as, you know, we love this podcast so much, and it it does take a lot to make this happen for you all, FYI.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: We put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this podcast.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I am very much looking forward to our summer hiatus.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're gonna be traveling, we're gonna be teaching, we're gonna be judging potentially this summer, but I'm gonna miss the podcast world over the summer.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't like the separation.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, but we have the Facebook group now, so we'll keep in touch with everybody and just create a really amazing season three.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is true.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, we are so sad that season two is coming to an end, but we still have a handful of more episodes left for all of you listeners out there, so don't worry.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we're brainstorming how we're gonna keep you all engaged over the summer as well.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll share some of that in our season wrap-up for season two in a few more weeks.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: But thanks to everyone who has been supporting and listening in season two.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: We have hit 65,000 downloads of the podcast.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: How exciting! Oh my gosh, so awesome! And we are are so so so grateful for everyone.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: And uh over here in IDA land, we have been super, super busy this entire season.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: We've had so many judges out working at different competitions, and I know that every IDA judge is so grateful to be back behind the table this season since last season got cut short.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So shout out to every competition in the industry who has figured out ways to pivot and make it work this season.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: However, you had to make it work, y'all did it.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we're nearing the end of the season, and I'm so happy that so many dancers across the United States have been able to get back on the stage.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I am also giving a shout out to all of our other dancers around the world that maybe haven't had a chance to get back to competitions yet.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I know that a lot of our dancers in Canada haven't had a chance to hit the stage at all this season.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel for you and I love you, and I hope that you get to sooner than later.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Fingers crossed.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: But we've watched a lot of amazing talent in our virtual competition, and I'm really happy that the industry is able to have options like that for dancers around the world.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I quickly do want to give a shout out to every IDA affiliated competition that uses our judges this season.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: We couldn't do it without you.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: We are so grateful for your support.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for believing in our service.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for recognizing the value of having a solid and experienced and educated pre-screen judging panel behind the table.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: It makes a difference and it shows at your events.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've had an IDA panel at one of your live competition events, reach out and let us know what you thought.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Let us know how your judges were.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: We would love to hear from you.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna give you a quick quick rundown in case you don't know which competitions use IDA judges.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Diva Dance Competition, Axis Dance Competition, ID Dance Competition, High Demand Dance Competition, Spirit of Dance Awards, which Leslie is also the director of.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, go me.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Star Talent Productions, DECA Dance Competition, Dive Dance Competition, Just Dance Invitational, Gems Dance Competition, and Positive Vibes.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you to each and every IDA competition around the country who uses our service, and we already can't wait for next season.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And as we were saying earlier, we are still going strong over on our Facebook group that we started this year.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks to everyone who has joined the group and chats with us there.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: We have, you know, again, like Courtney said, been able to connect with so many dancers from around the world and in different parts of the country that we might not get to see or hear from otherwise.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: We also had a poll here a few weeks ago for you, the listeners, to vote on what our final episode topic of the season would be.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll find that out if you don't know already.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you're part of the group, you know.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll let you know what that is coming up in the next episode.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: But if you want to be part of creating the topics for season three, make sure you join us on Facebook at Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast community.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: You'll answer a few questions regarding your connection with the dance world, and you'll be in.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: We will be posting more exclusive polls only for group members, and you'll get to be a part of helping create season three.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So come join us.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, please join us.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: We love having all of our fans there.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: We love connecting with you all.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's about that time to tell you a little bit about our sponsors.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: So grateful for our season sponsors.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And first up is Level Up Dance Supplies.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Level Up Dance Supplies, for being a sponsor for season one and season two of Making the Impact.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Level Up is your one-stop shop for all kinds of dance gear from rolling rock travel bags to dance duffels to changing tents and stretching tools.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Even though the season is almost over, make sure you take advantage of our exclusive$10 off promo code using the code BRAVO5678 at checkout.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Visit LevelUpdanceupplies.com and check out all of their amazing products now.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Dance Costumes by Orzua has been our other full season sponsor this year, and we are so grateful for their support.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Over this past weekend, I got the chance to see some of Dance Costumes by Urzua's costumes on stage, and they are really beautiful.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're one of a kind, custom costumes that stand out from the crowd.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Designer and owner Lily Urzua will cater to all your design requests and make your costume dreams come true.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's never too early to start thinking about next season's costumes.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So be sure to head to their website or Instagram now to check out their designs at dancecostumesbyurzua.com.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Use our exclusive podcast promo code IDA15 to receive 15% off of all dancewear and custom costumes.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, dance world.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're actually talking about dance pathways and what your options are to head into a professional performance career post-competition or post-high school or post-college.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we have two wonderful guests here that are joining us today that I'm I'm excited to introduce.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the first guest that I would love to welcome back to the podcast is a spectacular IDA judge who has been judging for our virtual, who does a lot of our online judges critiques.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And she was also a guest on our most popular episode ever.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you've hopefully listened or heard us talk about it.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's season one, episode four, Lyrical versus Contemporary.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to welcome back Miss Maddie Kurtz to the podcast.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! Hi! So good to be back.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's been so long.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: It has because you were like at the very beginning of season one.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was like fall 2019.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And now you're at the very end of season two.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: A lifetime ago, truly, in today's climate.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Seriously, I know.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm so happy that you are back with us and sharing your knowledge on this topic today.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome back.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And please feel free to share a little bit about you for all of our listeners who maybe missed that our most popular episode ever, They're Clover's Contemporary, where you're based.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Any career credits you want to share a little bit more about Maddie.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm originally from Connecticut.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up about an hour outside of New York City.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of access to dance very early on.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: My dad is super into Broadway, even though he's like a total sports buff.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So got to see lots of dance as a child and grew up training at a studio, um, not super hardcore competitive, but we definitely did compete.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of high school, I was done with dancing, or so I thought.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: I went to school thinking I would end up in law school and ended up getting a bachelor's degree, a BA, not a BFA, in dance and religious studies, kind of by accident.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I liked dance and academia so much that I went and got an MFA in performance and choreography.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm based in Tallahassee.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Soon to be based in Tampa, Florida, because I can't get away from the sun.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: But right now I do research for choreographers in residence at a choreographic residency center that's housed at FSU, where I am also an adjunct professor in the school of dance.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I make my own independent choreography.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have a project-based dance company called MK Rep.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of pathways, my wheelhouse is the concert slash academic slash experimental, and we can define those things a little bit later.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also teach yoga, which I've been doing for nine years, which is crazy to think about.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: I also teach Pilates four years, Pirabar four years, and I've been judging for the past six years, and now I feel like I'm getting old.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in case I uh don't sound busy enough, I also do some admin on the back end for IDA.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I like being busy and I'm very, very happy to be here.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I also I am super, super big fan of CDI on Instagram.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very excited to be here with Casey.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Fangirling.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Well, Maddie, thank you for introducing our next guest, which I am so excited to get to know even more.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we are very excited to welcome the founder and owner of Commercial Dance Intensive, Miss Casey Knoblett, to the podcast.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, I'm so excited.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: We have been working with you guys forever, either in scholarship form or through the Facebook groups or chatting outside.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, can I please hang out with these girls in person at some point?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so when I when I got my golden ticket invitation, I was so excited to actually be in the mix.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew you'd be the perfect person to chat about the commercial side of the dance industry since you run commercial dance intensive.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: I would love for you to introduce yourself and share a little bit about who you are, but also tell all the listeners out there a little bit about your program.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so again, Casey Knopfitt.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: I grew up in a really small town in North Carolina.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: My mom was a studio owner, as it happens.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then my brother eventually started dancing too because he wanted to hang out with us.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: And we started going to New York to train when I was 10.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: So that kind of opened my eyes to, oh, we can do this as a career, and there's a life here.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, even though I'm from this small town where everyone dances recreationally, there's an opportunity there to make this a career.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: So it was super fortunate to kind of get that at a very young age.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_04: Went to university with kind of school of the arts for high school and then New World School of the Arts in Miami.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: Always thought I would go to New York for school, and then I got a scholarship on Miami, and I was like, the beach, the snow, the beach, the snow.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, wait, I can have a view of the beach from my class.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: So then I promptly got a D in Modern uh because it was Graham on four at four o'clock on a Friday.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: And you could see the beach from the modern studio.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: And so my mom's like, How did you get a D in Modern?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I just couldn't make it happen.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like I couldn't do Friday, like I could see South Beach calling me from the Modern Studio.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: But then from there, I ended up starting my first company, which is In-house Productions, and that was in 2001, which is crazy because you know I was three when I started that company.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um and that was literally one of the first in-studio dance convention companies.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I will date myself in the fact that there were literally only two of us at the time.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: The concept, you know, was not something that I created.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: It was that my mom, you know, had the smallest town studio, and she would go to New York every summer and then invite these amazing teachers from New York, Brenda Buffalino and people from American Tap Dance Orchestra and people from ABT and people, you know, all these incredible Broadway people down to this small town, you know, in North Carolina, because she felt like even though those kids didn't want to dance, that there's life lessons to be learned from these, you know, professional dancers.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I just sort of took that right after college and decided like this is what I want to do.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it was such a foreign thing then that I would tell people I have this idea for a company, like I'm gonna bring in, because I had all these friends who were working, you know, I'm gonna bring in tap teachers and jazz teachers, we're gonna do choreography and masterclasses, and they would say, that'll never succeed.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_04: No dance studio owner is ever gonna let you bring in other choreographers or other teachers to your studio.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Well, then I'm definitely doing it if you think that it can't be done.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and so that's how long ago it was.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what's exciting for me is now 20 years later, that's the norm is to bring in, you know, to go compete and have multiple choreographers working with your dancers and multiple master teachers and the exposure.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: And it's so funny to think that, you know, in 2001, people are like, that's never gonna work.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Debbie's dance school is never gonna bring anyone in except for Debbie.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's just Debbie, you know.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I feel like there's a market for this.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: And then that's sort of how the commercial dance intensive grew.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: I was dancing professionally and commercially, and I was seeing a big gap between, you know, competitive dancers and studio dancers and then the working world.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_04: And even more so for me, I didn't have the tools necessary to be as successful as I could have been, just because I didn't know.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: There wasn't a training program to tell me how to get from, you know, conservatory.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: I was doing Graham and Horton and Lamon and Ballet Four Days a week.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I went to my Miami Heat MBA audition in a bun, black leotard, black tights, no lashes, no lip, no bikini tops, nothing.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I just thought my talent is gonna get me the two.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_04: Just wait till they see me jazz walk, it'll be all over.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it was in those little moments that I'm like, hmm, maybe if I had had just a little more knowledge, you know, and of course I didn't get kept past the first round.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: So it was those type of things, you know, that kind of made me create the commercial dance intensive.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I wanted somewhere for those kids we were training throughout the year at in-house productions to have sort of the next level up, you know, because uh at most studios there's maybe one or two who really want to do this.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_04: And where do those kids go now, you know, after we've seen them?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: And my brother is a professional dancer and choreographer in LA.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: My mom was in New York for years teaching.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: She moved out of North Carolina, went to New York, lived her dream.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so the three of us, you know, my brother and I just kind of put our heads together and we're like, we let's create a program that's everything that no one told us.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like all the stuff that we wish we had known, i.e., don't wear a leotard in a bun to a Miami Heat NBA audition.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: For those of you listening, do not wear your hair in a bun to any NBA audition.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: If you learn nothing from me in this, and he, you know, is way more on the contract side and the business side.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, we brought in Adam Cades who brings in the musical theater.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so we just sort of have this has morphed into how do we prepare the next generation of dancer to make that transition from studio college into whatever they want to do.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_04: So that's where we are, CDI all the time.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love it.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love that so much.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And let's be real, we all need this in our life.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like every single studio needs to be jumping on this program.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: And the dancers who are serious about pursuing a professional dance career need to get into CDI because if you're giving them the tools, they need to be taking advantage of it.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I wish I had that as well when I was, you know, transitioning over into the program.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and we um we also do parent seminars because I think there's a, you know, a it takes a village to get a professional dancer to be successful.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_04: You need your studio owner, you need your friends, and you need your parents just to kind of all be on the same page to support you because it's so hard.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: And we have some kids that come through CDI, they go through the paces and they leave and say, I don't want to do this.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I look at the parents and say, I just saved you so much money, so much heartache.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like they got to live it for two weeks, and then they thought, you know what?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: I don't love this aspect.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I want to do concert dance, maybe I want to work for a nonprofit, maybe I want to do behind the scenes, maybe I want to make costumes, maybe I want to do camera work, you know.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_04: And so for us, that's a success too, you know.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: So we we say, like, if you leave here and decide this is not your path, performing artist in the commercial world, it's not a failure.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: You got to live it.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: You know, how many parents would have loved to have tried out their job at 15 or 16 for two weeks and been like, oh, I don't like dentistry, you know, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: I don't like accounting, by the way, you know.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's nice that they also get that chance to say, either I don't love this, or this is specifically what I love, you know, or I'm still figuring it out.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: But either way, it's a success because you got to kind of hone in on what that is for you.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like Maddie and her religious studies, you know, like look at her on it.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think at least on the Maddie side of things, you know, being a more educated person makes you a better dancer and a better teacher and a better educator.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, like to me, I'm sure that informs some of what you do, even though it's random.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Love it, y'all.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I can't wait to dive deep into this discussion, and we have a lot to cover in the next hour.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: So let's jump on in.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you both for joining us.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so Casey already sort of let us in sort of with the transition from competitive to professional and talking about CDI.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: But so what are sort of the the challenges with that?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Sally, let's bring Sally back into the conversation, shall we?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sally.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: We love Sally.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sally, you know, is from small town Nebraska.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: She's really, really good.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: She's the best dancer at her studio.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: She wants to be a professional, but her studio owner doesn't have any any contacts, any idea of what a professional dancer does.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's just, you know, not that she's Dolly Dinkle, but she's just got a small town studio.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Where do we go?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: What do we do?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: And just as a I like to use this as just a point of reference for how we it's just you don't know what you don't know, you know, and that is no one's fault.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like the studio owner may have, you know, gone to school for dance and then went right into opening a studio.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: So how would they know?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: And the and the dance world now and 20 years ago, like I said, when I started in-house, is completely different beast, you know?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so one of the things we see is like musical theater, for example.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: So you have dancers who do musical theater solos every year.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: This is their jam, you know, like they do their musical theater solo, and their only point of reference for Broadway is doing a musical theater dance solo or group production.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: And they want to move to New York so they can do Broadway in musical theater.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, the things that we sort of try to hone in on are great, but what you're doing at competition is this much of what it takes to be on Broadway.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: You have to be able to sing even better than you dance by yourself.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: Can you talk to an accompanist, you know, and like instruct them through your song choice?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a song book?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a vocal coach?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a pair of Laducas?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: Because you can't walk into a Broadway audition without the correct footwear, or you're gonna look like you don't know what you're doing.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like do you are you in the union?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know how to get to an open call?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know how to sign in if you're not in the union?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know how to find a union job?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, all of these things that I think are the big missing piece because you're only getting a tiny little bit of what musical theater is.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the things we do at CDI is education too.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like, let's look at old Broadway shows.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, can you we do um New York City and LA Who's Who?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: And they have to research all these names.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: Because when you move to New York, you need to know who Andy Blinkenbuller is.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like you need to know the shows, you need to know, you know, all of these famous choreographers and directors.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: If not, it looks like you're not serious.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: But how would they know?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so it's exactly what Leslie said.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: You're coming from the Midwest, and you think I want to do musical theater because I've done and I can do every musical theater fute section that is, you know.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can lip sync for my life.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you can lip sync for my life.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then you get to New York, you're like, oh, wait, I have to really sing?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like by myself on stage?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sing saying period, like, and I think that's you know, and I think one of the things that I talk about when I judge musical theater solos a lot is what happened before you walked on the stage and what is about to happen.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the things that like is is a very theater way of thinking, which if you're a dance, if all you do is dance, you're not thinking about that.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're thinking about the fouette section, you know, in what you want from Legally Blonde.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why that's there, I don't know.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But like there's always gonna be a fouette section in what you will never do what hits on Broadway.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: What you want exactly while singing.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not gonna happen.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, little things also like, you know, we talked about vocal uh prowess, but acting, you know, there's there's more to acting than lip syncing.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things that I think dancers specifically don't necessarily get trained in or even think about until you're so deep into wondering why you're not booking that like it's almost too late to start.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like in my in my experience, that was what happened with me is that like I'm a real good dancer, I'm a pretty good singer, but I do not want to speak on the stage.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's intimidating, makes me nervous.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, it just it's n was not my thing, but that's because I didn't train early enough to make it my thing, like dance was my thing.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so we and for like kids in the Midwest, like you say, you know, like we have kids who say, like, what am I supposed to do?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm in this small town.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: You have a church director, you have a choir director, you know, you have all these resources.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: You have the high school chorus director.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's not big time, but don't waste those four years of high school if you think this is what you want to do.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: Because once you're like you said, Leslie, 18, 19, you're playing catch up with people who are, you know, have been training for voice their whole life because they've been in a musical theater program or a musical theater college, you know, but there are resources locally because you just need a good voice teacher to get you started, to get the fear away, if nothing else, you know, start singing by yourself at church, you know, or at school or, you know, whatever that is, but just like taking those baby steps, putting on a pair of heels in your house and learning how to walk and turn and you know just getting comfortable.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_04: So you don't have to be in New York, you know, because at that point it's it's so hard to, you know, to catch up.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean also I would encourage dancers not to be afraid of the internet.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like we all we're all on social media all the time, especially young dancers.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And now is like the best time to connect with people.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're all so used to virtual platforms.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, you can start with your church choir director, but like what about reaching out to bigger people and also finding dancers who you're excited about on Instagram, on whatever platform you like.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you can always reach out to someone.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: They might say no or ignore you, but there's no harm in reaching out to someone.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know so many professional dancers who would be absolutely flattered if a young dancer reached out and said, hey, you know, I really admire your path and how did you get there?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of a lot of artists are extremely generous people.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, like take advantage of the network and don't all also don't be afraid to ask your teacher like maybe they did open the studio right after they graduated, but maybe they went and had a career and they know people or maybe they are a member of one of the Facebook groups with many dance teachers.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: People are getting on those things all the time asking like, oh I have a student who wants this for college.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have a student who wants this pathway.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so our networks are just so vast and we're so interconnected right now.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So take advantage of that as well.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: And people have time.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: I mean that's the the beauty of it is that you know usually when you're trying to reach out to people it's like there's we're all so busy and you're traveling and you're working, you're doing eight shows a week.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_04: And like Maddie said this is the opportune time because everyone's at home Broadway's not open yet tours are not open yet.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean we're getting there you know but all these people that you admire actually are either stuck at home or have the time now you know so don't waste that opportunity to make those connections now before life kind of resumes to full tilt crazy.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And even even now I mean we are we are over a year from the beginning of the pandemic when every Broadway artist and every ballet dancer and every every everybody did a a free virtual class because they just wanted to create and they wanted to have camaraderie and like share their art.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: People are still doing that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And even if they're not free, it's way cheaper than it would be you don't have to worry that oh I can't get to New York City and go to steps or I can't go to Edge.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can it's you can do it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not ideal.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's in your house but it's something and it's better than you had before when none of this existed in in the vastness that it does now.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: So you know that's and it there's nothing I don't know maybe there's something intimidating about that even though you're behind a screen but like do it.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's right there.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah way less intimidating than Raleigh dance in our front row.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I think that you know as we are talking about this transitioning from comp to pro and like what tools do you need and what do you need to know I feel like kind of like what you said Maddie that don't be afraid to use the internet so many things are at your fingertips now that I think there's really no excuse to walk into the industry unprepared or uneducated when you have something like commercial dance intensive that is going to give you at least a rough outline of what to expect.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean Casey when you were just talking about union I I betcha there are so many people on this listening to this podcast I was like what are you talking about union?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean there's a union for dancers?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's a union for Broadway like and I didn't know that either.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know a single thing when I moved to New York City.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Not a single thing besides the fact that I knew how to dance and I knew that I needed to look at playbill.com to find an audition and I told me what time to be there and I showed up and I just got thrown in and figured it out.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And if I would have had the internet which let's be real back in 2007 it existed but like what like what was Google?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like you couldn't there was like YouTube was like brand new.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I couldn't watch a tutorial and like how to audition in New York City.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't have the resources back then that they that exists now.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: So and even what you were speaking about Maddie reaching out to dancers we talked about that so much in our episode earlier this season about dance mentoring and dance mentorship.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: So if you haven't had a chance to anybody that's listening that wants to pursue a professional career find dance mentor and listen to that episode.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: It'll really help you navigate how to get a dance mentor.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: But exactly that I had to kind of just ask around and like say like hey I know you went to this audition what do I how do I do this?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: What's musical theater?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of the things you know I mean honestly I think that sometimes I had to spend how much on a pair of heels?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly I mean I had to save up for my Laduka like you know I wore old Royal Caribbean heels.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Terrible terrible awful awful shoes until they broke and then could afford the Laduukas and I finally felt like I literally thought for a while when I was wearing those that I was like I'm not getting jobs because I don't have Laducasation in the audition room in New York City sometimes where it's just like oh you don't have Laducas like girl like what?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was full on block split flex which in my opinion are just as nice they look just as good they fit my foot and they're$200 cheaper.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: That was my shoe and then I bought Laducas and I was like I swear if I book a job in it had been like two years since I booked a job and I bought Laducas and lo and behold I did book a job.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now whether that was a Laduka related situation or not I can't tell you.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And unfortunately straight to fill Laduca yes it did.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you sir.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: But what's crazy is the industry is full of that kind of stuff which also people don't tell you and that those are sort of things you do kind of learn as you go and like yeah now I can tell you buy Laducaster it didn't serve me to not have them.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: But like there are little things and unfortunately some of it is like the presentation like we talk about all the time you can control how you walk into the door and present yourself.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're doing all you can to present yourself well, that's all you can do.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know and so like if Laducases they're$100, go to onstage dance we're on Madison Avenue when you get to New York, Ronnie will help you and you know do do what you can to make yourself look and feel the best possible because you know that's that's something too you can't show up looking a hot mess.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: And just from like a talking about training while you're home so what CDI did like as soon as quarantine started like the week after we were doing three posts a week on Instagram solid tutorials because I just want to keep my faculty like paid even though it wasn't a lot I just wanted them to have the opportunity.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so on our YouTube channel it's everything from like how to do voiceovers to you know Broadway to people you need to know.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_04: Melissa does a whole hair tutorial how to go from a 40s look to rock of ages to you know an NBA audition in you know one day in those three auditions.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: So all that's free.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's on the YouTube channel you know and for parents too it's like a great it's not just dance.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: It's not classes it's not I mean we do have classes and combos and performance on there but during quarantine we focus more on the education because we felt like okay now you're gonna get a semester of CDI educational.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know like you're gonna sit down you're gonna take notes you know that's gonna be free.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: But we kind of we tried to access all of the resources of all of our faculty from all the different facets and be like what do you want to talk about?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know what's completely different from a business side from a you know unions, contracts agents all the stuff.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so that was on the commercial dance intensive YouTube all free.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_04: And they're sure you know they're just like little quick classes on if nothing else just to get so you know if you hear the word union if you hear the word equity if you hear the word sag after you have a point of reference.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because sometimes that's all you need.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_04: You just need to like nod your head enough to know what's going on.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Even though the competition season is nearing its end, recital and nationals are right around the corner.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm pretty sure you'll still need to be hauling all of your costumes to and from the dressing room.
• 31:01
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• 31:13
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• 31:27
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• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: So let's briefly talk about college before we start talking about the rest of our options as a professional performer because I feel like college would possibly get in the middle in the way not in the way as a bad thing but could be in between high school and professional and I will mention to all of our listeners out there that we are doing a college dance episode next season, season three.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully in the fall that way dancers who are picking colleges will have this as a reference to hear options but let's briefly talk about college for a split second and y'all tell me do you feel like college is always necessary if you want to have a performance career for as a professional dancer.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: All right you go Maddie I mean short answer is no and as someone who had a really wonderful experience in the academic realm I can say that it was right for me.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not right for everyone and I think college isn't what books you the job.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Your dance training in college can help you get a job but you don't need it to get a job.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you can major in other things and become a well-rounded human hence religious study.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: But like that is going to inform you as an artist whether you're pursuing concert dance or commercial dance.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know we're gonna get to the concert side in a second but a little spoiler like a lot of people in the concert dance world work in really collaborative ways.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not going to teach you steps like in a commercial dance audition where they're gonna say do this, do this, do this, do as I say.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna want your input and so the more life experience you have in my opinion the more input you can get, you can give.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that life experience in a lot of situations comes during the ages of 18 to 22 when you're like on your own but in a very safe place.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's such a college is such a controlled environment but you're still by yourself and there's space to mess up.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think dance training in college can be really great but dance training in college can also be really limiting.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're wanting to have a career in commercial dance, maybe maybe you go to a conservatory and then you go to CDI in the summers.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell people like don't let your professors beat the the competition dancer out of you just because it's stigmatized.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's all just information in your body and you can you can be an amazing hip hop dancer who takes ballet every day and you can be an amazing ballet dancer who takes West African dance.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's just more information in your body and it's more to pull from and so that was a long way of saying that you don't need a college education to get a job but that it can be really beneficial and that also nothing is permanent.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if you end up in a program you can always leave and come back.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's still gonna be there if you book a job or you realize it's not for you.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like me.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah no that that is awesome Maddie I totally agree you know on all of that and a couple things that we think about because college is harder I think especially with a commercial route there's just not a ton of commercial programs we're getting there, but it's gonna be a while for the college world to sort of catch up with the training that you need for commercial.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: The two sort of scenarios that we talk about for college at CDI are what are your parents willing to pay for because if your parents will pay for you to go to college and they will not pay for you to move to New York or LA, then you are going to work so hard trying to live that you won't be able to audition and you won't be able to train just as an 18 year old, you know?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: And in New York they like it a little older a little more you know experience a little more confidence a little more maturity.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: I feel that's my opinion about New York.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_04: LA's a little different.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm telling the kids, you know, if your parents will pay for school, find a school where you're gonna get 20 technique classes a week that your parents are paying for because you know how much 20 technique classes in New York and LA are going to cost you?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you're not gonna be able to do that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_04: So kind of you know and then we we look at you know which college in terms of what's a good fit but that's sort of from the parent realm of you if you're going with zero dollars and no savings as an 18 year old, I think you're gonna come home after a year, you know, because there's just with no support.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's really hard to do.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: And then something else that we talk about is a lot of our dancers want to do protein.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_04: They want to do MBA they want to do NFL and so I'm like find a college with an amazing dance team.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: And yes you can major in biology you can major in you know anything that you want you can major in dance you know if your end goal as a commercial dancer or at least your jumping off point is pro team then you need a college dance team for that and your parents are willing to pay for school do you like Greek life?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know like if this is something that you want to have that college experience you can do that and dance you know and one of our alumni who is at Florida State actually she's on she's in the dance department but she's also in the hip hop competitive team.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so you know she got a great scholarship to FSU knows she wanna go she wants to go the commercial route and that was the perfect you know she's getting the great technical training but then she's also able to perform hip hop.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: So she's training in hip hop five nights a week you know and so I think that dance team aspect is great because then you can also maybe go to an in-state school you know that's not pace that's not you know USC or any of these you know sort of bigger universities that are impossible to get into right now like what is your focus you know and so that's just sort of in terms of college for commercial we're not there yet in terms of four year programs really preparing you for commercial I could talk about that all day.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: But depending on what your parents are willing to pay for and if you want to do pro team that's a great four year training program you know you're gonna be performing in stadiums you're gonna be performing on basketball courts you're gonna be doing interviews you're gonna have to be glam you know all this stuff and pro teams love it if you're coming from a college you know dance team background.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: So it's not a waste of time.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_04: I think I'm sure Maddie has heard that too that like don't waste four years, you know, when you could be in a company or you could be you know dancing commercially there are definite paths where the four years is more of an advantage especially in the musical theater realm than it is a disadvantage.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: And adding on to that I think in concert dance realms that are not ballet, that is also the case.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like again going back to this idea of collaboration, like contemporary choreographers aren't hiring 20 year olds.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're hiring people who are in their mid 30s and like now that there's such a big emphasis on healthy dancing and dancing longer and stronger there are so many people hitting their prime in their late 30s and those are the people who are dancing with the big names now.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah you're not wasting your time is I mean I would say I think if you if you want to be in a ballet company it's a little different.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in most other spaces there's certainly room and time to explore.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And Maddie going back to something you just said earlier about training in the summer so like that's how I met Casey was I was at school in college and I, you know, full disclosure didn't have a great experience at college.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel like I fit in and I didn't feel like anybody appreciated what I do.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I came to Atlanta and Casey was teaching at Dance 101 and like Casey's class that she taught was the first time that I was like oh somebody gets me somebody gets what I do and it felt good.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time this was 2008 ish.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm lying to you 2004.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_04: This was like a long long time ago why are you just throwing out numbers right now you were pregnant with Ava Marie who's getting her driver's permit next year.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's fine.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_04: Goodbye.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: And we're good.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Moving on that must have been my at the time Atlanta did not have a studio that catered to professional dancers.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: At that time it was you could go to a ballet studio, you could go to Atlanta ballet, you could go to Georgia ballet.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you'd get a jazz class here and there if you were an adult person.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of the studios, you know, you could dance as recreation and fun, but Dance 101 started and they slowly started adding more professional level classes.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And now there's three or four studios in in the Atlanta area that are specifically they're like BDC, they're like steps.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the most important things for dancers who are going to college for any reason is to come back home or go somewhere in the summer and train with different people in different styles that you are not as limited as Maddie said to whatever your training program is because those training programs have a focus and they have an end result and a desired goal and a way to mold you.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what they're there for.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it is up to you as the individual to pursue other things.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: And now that you know like we were talking earlier you don't have to go to a studio anymore.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can just do it online.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you know that those summer training programs I think and opportunities were integral for me to figure out who I was as an artist aside from I went to OCU, you know?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: And Leslie, you know Gia from Atlanta and you know Gia was at Juilliard and she knew she wanted to do Broadway, you know, and she's one of our faculty and one of my kids that started training with me from a very early age but she always knew she wanted to do Broadway but was at Juilliard which you know didn't really have that focus and she found Broadway theater project you know and did that in the summer and it like that was it for her.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know so even though she was at Juilliard for another three years she completely changed her focus and what she honed in on and what she did in her spare time and what she did on the weekends.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: And you know she was one of the only people at Juilliard during her improv and choreography class creating musical theater choreography.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: Wow because you know and everyone else is doing very serious you know it's modern and you know which is beautiful but for her it didn't bring her joy you know like her joy was in the theater you know and it was that summer program that completely showed her like oh my gosh I can be a technically trained dancer I can be at Juilliard and I can still do what I love.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: I just have to modify um she kind of created her own training program within the Juilliard program.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: And she still got that Juilliard on her resume.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and those programs exist in all facets of the field you know like I declared my accidental dance major because I went to the Bates Dance Festival after my freshman year which is a three week program up in Maine and it's like super hippy dippy everyone no one shaves their legs everyone is vegan like it's and it's like rolling on the floor and I'm like coming from Connecticut like dance studio kid.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been in college for one semester because I did my first semester abroad and it was like totally life changing.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that people were talking about and thinking about movement was just completely mind blowing.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what led me ultimately to where I am today.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I would I would just encourage summer study and maybe even in places that that you wouldn't suspect would be the best fit.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wanted to do the BDC internship program in the summer and my professor was like I don't know maybe check out Bates and I said okay and I did it and I'm really glad I did.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I love that I love hearing that yeah we I I love hearing about all of these different programs as well so we will definitely make sure that we link to them in our show notes for any of the listeners that want to learn more about a lot of these summer programs that we were talking about but definitely check out all of your resources and options.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: I do agree summer is prime time to continue your education and training.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now we briefly talked about you know the path of college I would love to do like a quick crash course of different performance options and what what comes along with that?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: What options do we have as I'm Courtney Your T's and I am moving to wherever and I'm going to be a professional dancer.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: What can I do?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: What are my options?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know and from experience when I moved to New York City is where I chose to move I thought I was going to be a contemporary dancer.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the time contemporary was brand new in the competition world and it was like super cool and I was like I'm a concert dancer.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then I moved to New York and I was like ooh I don't know this doesn't really pay that much money and as much as I love this movement I think that Broadway paycheck books better.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: So then I started auditioning for Broadway and that's what I do now I do musical theater but there are so many different options out there Broadway concert dance commercial dance cruise ship pro dance TV film touring with a music artist dancing in a TV show.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean the list goes on and on and on so let's start with concert dance Maddie since you mentioned it a little bit what would that entail?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: What would that look like?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Where can you get concert dance opportunities?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: How long are the contracts?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Things like that.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh and what cities are kind of big these days because I at there it changes dance is evolving.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so I I like to think of concert dance in three categories and anyone Feel free to jump in if you are like, that's not true.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the first, the first is ballet.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: And basically, every almost every state in this country has a ballet company, and many cities have regional companies.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Those contracts, it depends.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: I, from what I understand, I have never danced in a ballet company, but I have friends who have.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Nine months with some sort of layoff break at some point, you usually get health insurance.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good gig if you have the facility for it.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is one of those things where you can be taught to a certain extent, but your legs only rotate so much and your arches are only so high.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: So not to discourage, I think like there is a lot of, there are a lot of other things that you can do with your ballet training.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: The second is like a modern company, which unfortunately there are very few of nowadays.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a big part of the issue in how we talk about it is that a lot of college programs still say we do ballet and modern when they're doing ballet and contemporary.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's different from the contemporary that we're seeing at competitions, but it's it's not like a codified modern dance form.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yes, at New World, they're still teaching, I assume.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're still teaching gram down there, but like most conservatories, like FSU, for example, teaches like contemporary, release-based contemporary dance, as do most programs.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that we're misleading students to think that a modern dance career is in their future when maybe it's a contemporary dance career.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: I will say if you're wanting a contemporary dance contract, your best bet is to go to Europe.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's just a lot more funding for dance and there are better structures in place.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: But the I think what the majority of dancers who move to New York to pursue contemporary air quotes dance end up doing is what I like to call the downtown dance scene.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: So this is mostly project-based work.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: So what Courtney said before, you're not gonna make a lot of money.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are okay with that and have other interests, maybe you want to work in arts administration at a dance studio or a dance company to pay your bills and then you rehearse in the evenings.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Most of those places are gonna be flexible with you.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're interested in making your own work.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the path that I've taken.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: But this experimental downtown scene is it's a little unstable.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: And most people, there are no auditions for most people.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Most people dance for people they know.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: The way that you get a job usually is by going and taking someone's class a bunch and introducing yourself and saying, Hey, I'm a friend of so-and-so.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And she told me I would really like your movement.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then they notice you in class and they say, Hey, I'm doing a project.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to come to rehearsal?
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: But usually, like, there's not always a contract.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that formal.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: There will be performance opportunities, but you're not gonna be touring in most cases.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna be performing at large venues, you're gonna be performing like in a museum or like in a warehouse.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those places are super cool.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think as a young dancer, it can sometimes feel like, oh, but I didn't make it.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we just need to shift the narrative around what success looks like, especially in that contemporary realm.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's great.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great summary of concert dance world.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Such great advice.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's more, I'm sure.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure I missed a lot.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: All right, what's next?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: We kind of talked about Broadway, so why don't Casey you give us a little insight into what commercial dance means and where those jobs are, what types of jobs you could get in the commercial world and uh things like that.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: So many.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: So many.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: And the commercial world, you know, it if you have flat feet, if you don't have the hips, if you don't have the extension, you know, like there's a place for you, you know, there's there is a place for you.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_04: I cannot recommend highly enough The Business of Show, which is a book by Adam Cates.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's our required reading for CDI.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's such a good, like, commercial dance 101.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I think there's like 11 pages of jobs you can have as a commercial dancer and stuff you wouldn't even know.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_04: But I think just wherever you want to be and whatever you want to be doing, there can be a place for you commercially.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think when we think commercial dance, we think Broadway and we think I'm gonna be on the Millennium YouTube Instagram video doing hip hop for whatever choreographer, or I'm gonna be on tour.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_04: And that's kind of what you think.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_04: And there's so many other things in between.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we touched on pro team.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_04: I did eventually get hired by the NBA, switched it up a little bit, yeah.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_04: Did a little research, but dad's little top, and she's back.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: Lip, lashes, extensions.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I just had no idea.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_04: But I ended up, you know, being the NBA for a couple years.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_04: And what I like about NBA and NFL is you don't have to move far away from home.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there is an option.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_04: Every state has some sort of pro team.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like hockey has, you know, uh cheerleaders or dance teams now, basketball, baseball tends to have some sort of hype squad.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: You know, NBA and NFL are the big ones.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_04: But let's say you don't want to move too far away from home.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: Or, you know, you don't want to be in New York, you don't want to be in LA, um, you don't want to be in Chicago, you don't want to be in Atlanta.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_04: You can be in the Midwest, like Leslie and I were talking about before, and and dance for an incredible team for years, you know, and you know, in terms of pro team, it's not gonna be enough money to live.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_04: You will have to either be in school or get another job.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_04: But the exposure, having that on your resume, you get to perform, you get to do interviews.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, if you're doing NFL, you're performing for 60,000 fans.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like when else would you get that opportunity?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: And if you are with a big team, NF MBA or NFL, you might be able to do playoffs if they're special like musical artists that come to you know the arena to do pre or post-game, especially for playoffs and all-star games, then you get that on your resume.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: You know, all you're a you know Dallas Cowboy cheerleader, but you know, people that are with the DCC will get six or seven artists, country artists or musical artists on their resume in one season and their show group, which you get to tour around the world.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I went to Venezuela with the Atlanta Hawks NBA just because there was a game there.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_04: And they flew five of us to Venezuela, you know.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think NBA NFL is a great option, but just know that it's not gonna pay all your bills and that you need lashes, red lips.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like, talk to me before you go to your audition.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and every team is completely different.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like for the Falcons, you need like uh I'm pretty sure it's the same, but you have to wear white leg warmers so they can see what you look like in a white boot because you dance in boots.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_04: How would you know that?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have white leg warmers in your bag in 2021?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, like you just wouldn't do that, but they need to see, you know, like what you look like in their specific uniform.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_04: So for the biggest thing for NBA and NFL is do your research.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: And like we've been saying the whole time, it's way too easy.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: You can see their Instagram.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_04: Go and the in terms of getting hired for pro team, go to their clinics, even if they're virtual, because that's one more time you get to be in front of them before they see you at auditions.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_04: Because, like for Miami Heat, when I auditioned unsuccessfully, there were 800 girls at that audition.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_04: And the veterans basically keep their spot.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so they're like maybe seven spots.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_04: Couldn't believe the Leotard didn't sail me through, but you know.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: But I just didn't do any research and there wasn't internet, but now there is, and you can connect, like Maddie said, with you know, the captain.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_04: Somebody asked me the other day, hey, I think I want to dance for the Knicks City dancers.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_04: You know, do you think it would be okay to reach out to their captain?
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_04: I have she's my friend on Instagram.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, 100%.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_04: All she can do is not reply.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like just send her a quick DM if that's your dream team.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_04: So just in terms of pro team, I don't want people to put them down because it's an awesome performing experience.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_04: It really does build your resume.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_04: And if you don't want to be in New York or LA, it gives you options.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there is Broadway, there is regional theater, which, you know, Leslie and I talk about, and that can be where you're in Chicago for three months, you know, or you are touring all over post-COVID.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_04: Those will exist again, hopefully.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_04: And side note, I just talked to a faculty member, and Pittsburgh has resumed their performing season for the summer and moved it to the football play.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: What the Steelers Stadium.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_04: So they will they've changed their roster.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: They were gonna do chorus line and some other stuff last season, and now they've changed it to more like Broadway Medley and Wizard of Oz, so it can be kid friendly too, but they can spread out thousands and thousands of people in the football stadium.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: So cool.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like a little glimmer of like we're coming back.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: CLO.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and how nice of the Steelers to offer up their venue.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: Steelers.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sports can really work together, everyone.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Take a hit.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_04: But I thought that was like a great uh we were just literally talking about that today, a great milestone for like post-COVID.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do we keep theater alive?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_04: How do we keep these dancers employed?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_04: And let's just go outside and build a stage and you know, make it happen.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_04: So even the regional theater, there's opera in New York, which you wouldn't know about unless you lived in New York, you know, that that's a really good opportunity at Lincoln Center.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then when you move to LA, it's TV.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_04: It if you want to do TV movies, if you want to be on the Grammys, if you want to tour with Katy Perry, if you want to be in anything virtual land, LA is gonna be, you know, your go-to.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a whole nother beast, but there's so many opportunities out there.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_04: If you're going to LA, you also have to be able to act, I would say.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: It really helps, you know, to have some sort of acting training.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_04: So it's interesting because my brother works all the time in LA, and every time he doesn't get a job because he wasn't strong in something, he like immediately starts training in that.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_04: So he like didn't get this job that had Cirque stuff, and then he went and trained in Vegas Cirque for like three months because he's like, Wait, I want to have Cirque in my toolbox, I have to be able to do Cirque, you know, and then the more you can do it, the more you can do.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't get two national commercials, so then he went and started acting, you know, and then he would go, you know, his improv and his, you know, his groove, which you have to do so much in LA.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_04: LA is all improv.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_04: Let me just tell y'all, you're gonna do some hip hop, but you have to be able to improv.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like, do not roll up in LA unless you can improv because some of those auditions are just improv and not contemporary improv.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: We know y'all can rock out some Billy Eilish, like nobody is playing, bringing it all to the sadness.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_04: But if you put on some hip-hop, y'all freeze.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's like you just you just can't figure it out.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_04: You've got your one move, and that's it.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think that's the biggest shocker with moving to LA is that in everything, you're either acting improv or you're doing hip-hop improv.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where I mean, you want to book a national commercial, you want to book a national tour.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that's what you want to book glee.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: So my brother's still getting paid from Glee that he did what do you say, 11 years ago?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_04: 10 years ago.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: He'll just get a random check.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: Glee.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'll be talking to him, he opens and he's like, Glee.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, you're amazing.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: You're washing dishes, you get it paid by glee.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, but it's those type of jobs, you know, it's worth doing the versatility training.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, it's like we talked about not knowing how to prep for musical theater.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: Same with LA.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_04: You don't know you're gonna have to dance.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_04: And let me tell you, improving in a ballroom with 50,000 of your classmates is way easier than improving in front of Rihanna's, you know, choreographer, six casting directors, and all the best dancers in LA.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you gotta get on it, you know.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_04: And we sort of joke because you know, it's like when you get to LA and when you get to New York, it's not like they divide it up by how long you've been here.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like, all right, if it's your first time in LA, come on out.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: If you've got more than 20 items on your resume, come on, you know.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, I I laugh because I'm like, you guys, when you're at the commercial dance intensive, you could walk into an audition and have our teachers standing beside you because they're going out for the same job, same as New York.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm sure you guys no difference, you know, you have to be ready for that.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_04: Cruise ships, I did Disney and I worked for Royal Caribbean.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_04: I did I ran auditions for Royal Caribbean before the COVID, hit awesome jobs.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I say I went to Tokyo Disney for a year.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: I saved so much money.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: I was not really good about saving that money, but in retrospect, had I saved the money rather than buying a leather couch and a very expensive coffee table, I would have planned better.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: But um, now knowing what I know, but those contracts are awesome.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_04: And people used to laugh off Disney, like, oh, you danced for Disney.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, it's a sweet contract.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that's how I got my equity card was from Dancing for the Mouse.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: Still in equity because of dancing with the mouse, you know.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_04: Cruise ships, when they come back, awesome.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: Best job ever.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_04: To have one year.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_04: Literally, Courtney, you can talk about cruise ships.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's like people say, Oh, you dance for a cruise ship.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I always tell every single dancer, and I'm I mean, if y'all listen to the podcast, y'all know that Leslie and I worked on Royal Caribbean together.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's how we met.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: We were roommates, we danced on the high seas, and it was it was the best job ever.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've had some really awesome jobs after Royal Caribbean too that I love to look back at.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: But for my very first professional job in the industry, for it to be a job like that, I learned so much.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: So much.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: I learned how to dance in heels.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, crazy.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'll n another thing you should learn how to do before you go to a Royal Caribbean audition.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or any audition.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_04: And if I'm running it, let me tell you you're not getting it without some heels on.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: So like learn how to dance in heels, learn how to speak on stage in a monologue, learned how to wear a wig and quick change like a pro.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: Learned how to leap on a on a moving ship.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good luck trying to learn how to do that.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: But learned how to partner like crazy.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I seriously, Royal Caribbean for me, if I don't know if I shared the story before, but I didn't make it through my college experience.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: I left after one semester at Marymount, Manhattan.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: No offense, Marymount, Manhattan.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: You have a great program, just it wasn't for me.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I literally dropped out after my first semester, caught up Royal Caribbean who already offered me a job, and I was on a cruise ship in two months, met Leslie, and learned so much more than Marymount was teaching me because I got thrown in and I had to do it and I was getting paid to do it.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: I literally would open my paycheck, which wasn't that that much at the time, but for Oh, it felt like so much at the time.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: For for 19-year-old Courtney, I was like, I'm making$400 a week.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: Cool! Like I didn't have any other.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sparing a tiny room.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's great.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: But like if you really think about it, you're not paying for any other expenses.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: You're getting paid to like be on vacation.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: We worked two days a week, pretty much.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: We did our shows two days a week.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: We did a little Diddy opening show, and then I'm laying by the pool every other day getting a tan, and like ziplining through Mexico.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, are you kidding me?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's a dream job for any dancer.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: I tell every dancer, if you want to be a professional, go work on a cruise ship.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not even just as their first job, but just at any point, and especially now there's like musicals on cruise ships.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how cool is that?
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just think it's a great way to see the world.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's a hard job.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like you said, Court, we we were in, what did we have four weeks of rehearsal?
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: Five weeks, maybe.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: Pardon it's rehearsal.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, we were ever eight hours a day, in heels the whole time.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: Christelle didn't care my toenail fell off.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: Our show director was like, sorry, have you never had a toenail fall off before?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no, what are you talking about?
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, it's it's hard, but it was such it is, I say the same thing, Courtney.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: I tell everybody if you want to be a professional dancer, get that job, get that job first, get that job three or four times so you can save all that money, so you can learn all the partnering.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the thing, you know, most studios aren't gonna teach you how to partner.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: I learned hustle partnering, I learned ballroom partnering.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's not something you can just go learn.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you do go to a ballroom studio, you go to Fred Estare, you're not gonna be like that's the thing that's hard about learning some of those skills is that as a professional dancer, I would love to know exactly how to partner with, you know, for ballroom or for all the styles.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: But at a ballroom studio, you're still considered a beginner, you know?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you're never gonna learn as quickly as you would on a contract like that, where it's like, okay, here's how you hold people, here's how you get lifted, here's how you, you know, do all this stuff.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna learn that at Fred Astaire because they're gonna say one, two, cha-cha-cha, and your partner is gonna step all over himself because he doesn't know what he's doing.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, you're like, I can I just learn like everything?
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: Can we do it right now?
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to know, because it would benefit me later.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the cruise ship will do that for you.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I having a flashback and laughing, I'm gonna say this out loud just because I'm I'm not afraid.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I worked at Mango's on South Beach.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if anyone's been to Mango's.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's where you're required to wear some sort of cheetah two-piece, like very small outfit.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_04: It was very good money.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_04: But the reason I went to work at Mango's is because we were required to take Latin dance once a week.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so for two hours once a week, they have a dance studio upstairs.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: And all of the men were amazing because they you had to dance on the bar, but you had to do like authentic, you know, we were learning bachata, we were learning merengue, we were learning salsa, we were I'd never danced with a guy like that, you know, like partnering like that.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'd done like live partnering and contemporary, lean on me.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_04: Right, you know, but I hadn't I didn't know how to like let the guy take the lead.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_04: I was always taking the lead, like that was how it went.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so even though I'm like waitressing, you know, that's one of those like commercial jobs where it's like, how do you also work but be beneficial?
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I worked at night, you know, I went at like eight and worked till you know, or five and worked till two in the morning.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: So there were no auditions going on, you know, in Miami at the time.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I wasn't missing auditions, and then I got three amazing Latin like ballroom classes because I came out and then I worked on Latin television for two years.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_04: Look at me.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and I spoke Spanish because I had taken Spanish in school and uh the guy I was dating was Cuban and everyone is in his family spoke Spanish, so I just had to like sort of jump in and they were like, where is that gringa that speaks Spanish that can do all this?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm here, let's go, you know?
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so if you had told me that like from Roxburgh, North Carolina was dancing on like you know, Unavision and Telemundo and Sabericante, and I was like, but it was just this niche in Miami where I didn't look like anybody else, but I spoke enough Spanish to be on set and I was working at Mango's, which I didn't tell any of them, of course.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, please don't let them I just like I just like learned in Roxburgh, North Carolina.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_04: There was like so many classes.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um but it was an advantage because then I could I could hang.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_04: I mean I wasn't great, but I if it we were on set and they said, you know, grab a partner and do this, you know.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it was one of those where what can you get paid to do that is also like, you know, free training.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that we should put into the brainstorming topics, I think it's important to maybe have a discussion about how to juggle survival and auditions and things like that, how to budget your life as an adult when you break into the industry.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's one of the most challenging parts of a per being a professional dancer or freelancer is having to understand, wait, so you want me to go to three auditions today, but I have to go to work.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if I don't go to work, then I can't pay my rent to live in New York City to go to the auditions.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how how does this work?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then also, how do I pay for dance class?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because I still have to be training and I need to network with people.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm not in class, I can't network.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's so many questions like that.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's an episode in itself.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely think we should do it to help because that's one of the biggest questions as a mentor to younger dancers that are coming to New York.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: They say, So how do you juggle it?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: What is your survival job to pay the bills?
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't understand how I can go to auditions right now.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I always say every time I teach, and I always give this life lesson when I'm on the convention stages in my musical theater class at whatever convention I'm teaching.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: I always tell the dancers, y'all need to wake up and realize that if you want to do this for a living, you are not a professional dancer, you are a professional auditioner.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: That is what you are.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: You are going to audition more than you work.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: That is just the reality.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry about it.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows how long it's gonna take until you get the job, but that's just the life that you are choosing to walk into being a professional.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to know that going in.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't, it's gonna be a real rude awakening very quickly because a lot of dancers come but can't handle the rejection and they're out within six months.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if you don't have a backup plan, if you didn't, if you chose to not go to school, maybe they go back to school or whatever it is.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it is a hard reality to kind of like realize about the dance world, but it's the sad truth, and you just gotta come prepared.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: So we've talked about lots of different ways to walk into the professional world prepared.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_02: And just kind of to s to sum this up very briefly, for concert dance, whether you're a contemporary, modern, or ballet company, you can explore that in so many different states across the United States and you're up.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: So take advantage of that if that's the route you want to go.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_02: But if you want to be on television or dance with an artist, or you want to make those residual checks, that's happening happening in Los Angeles.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: Go to LA to be in the commercial side of things.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: If your dream is Broadway and musicals, most of those happen, or at least the auditions happen in New York City, but sometimes they do travel.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_02: Cruise ships happen, you can audition for that one through a video.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: Send your video to a cruise ship right now if you're graduating and you want to be on a ship by June, they'll they will give you a job if if you make the cut.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_02: But you can audition for that and you will travel the world and get paid to do so and save a lot of money, which is really exciting.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many other jobs that we didn't have a chance to talk about in this episode.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_02: We also didn't really talk about agents, which is I think is an important thing to discuss about navigating a professional career.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I also believe that we should we will be having an agent episode with agents coming in season three as well.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: So many things.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: I wanna I want to ask one more question before we go, though, because I think it's important to uh remind parents and dancers of, you know, we did we talked about a lot of things that you probably don't know and that you're probably just learning, or you probably need to learn.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the things that competitive dancers already know?
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like just being a competitive dancer already sets you up for so much success.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can we talk a little bit about About the ways that that is true.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I always say if you can do 42 Alice Conterns into four pirouettes into an aerial, you have the skills to do anything.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like your physical body is so strong, you're flexible, you're used to having to deal with adversity.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe one of your teammates is absent on the day of the competition.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: Someone has COVID.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have to figure it out in the moment.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know how to quick change, you know how to be adaptable.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you're fearless.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're gonna flip around all day, like and throw your body, you're fearless in both your body and your mind.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I always encourage dancers to take that and run with it, even if someone is telling you, like, oh, like you're just a competition kid.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, you're not just a competition kid.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're a competition kid and you should be proud of it.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, when we were growing up, there wasn't competition, like it wasn't a thing like it is now.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so your only performance opportunity was maybe nutcracker and then maybe recital, you know.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_04: So this competition generation of kids is dancing and performing all the time, different styles, with groups, solos, duets, you know, like we didn't have that opportunity.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_04: We weren't used to performing that much.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_04: You only got maybe one time a year to really perform.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I love that they're performing all the time and getting to be such great, you know, performers and actors and actresses.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_04: I also feel like the pressure, you know, of being judged and to take that and use it as a practice tool, use it as your training.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, when judges are giving you feedback at competition, if that was an audition, that would be feedback that you would never hear.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_04: So no one's gonna keep you after an audition and be like, Leslie, you did amazing.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_04: I have some notes.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_04: So next time I see you, I'd love for you to wear green and you know, like, because you know, stuff highlight your red hair, but you know, use that rather than feeling like the judging, you know, you're upset about it or you feel like you were wronged.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like that is the industry, except you don't get to fix it.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_04: You just get cut, you know?
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_04: And so feel thankful for that and take those critiques because you know, yes, every judge is gonna have a different opinion, and we hear that a lot.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what's just not fair because this judge loved me or this judge didn't, and you know, this girl scored higher.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to the real world.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_04: That is what the industry is, except you don't get the luxury of finding out why.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so take those critiques, you know, and realize that that's a gift because that ends when you graduate, you stop getting feedback.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_04: You stop getting feedback in class, you stop getting, you know, corrections at auditions.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_04: So you will leave 15 auditions, not get it, and have no idea why.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know, at least at competition, someone says, I didn't score you this way because of these things.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_04: You can agree with them, you can think that, you know, you can disagree with them, but that is the real world, and you don't get a second chance to fix it in the real world, and you could go to 15 auditions and never know what you were doing wrong.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, use competition as a bonus that, like, I'm gonna take these 15 dances, I'm gonna take that critique, and I do not want to get the same critique at the next competition.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna be mad about it, I'm not gonna be offended by it, I'm not gonna say, you know, this versus this, and especially the positive.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_04: You never get positive feedback in the commercial world.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_04: No one's gonna be like, you had an awesome audition.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_04: We're not gonna hire you, but you were.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like you you don't, they could have loved you.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody at the table in a commercial audition could have loved you, and you won't hear that because the casting director hired their niece.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like that's just how it is.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_04: So when a judge compliments you, when a judge gives you feedback, take that as a gift and realize that from now until you graduate, those are things that will help you be successful afterwards.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, use that as a privilege and not as a you know, as a disadvantage.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, y'all, we talked about the pathways.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's for sure.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about so many options for dancers out there for everyone listening.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_02: Even if your dancer is young and they don't know their path yet as far as if they're going to continue on with the dance post-high school, post-college, become a professional dancer if they want.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe this is a little bit of insight in as to what that might look like if they choose that path, what their options are if they want to pursue dance professionally.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like we could absolutely do a part two of this one.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_02: We have so much more to say.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: But this was a great introduction, and I want to thank Maddie and Casey for sharing your knowledge and chatting dance with us tonight.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_04: So fun.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_04: And just from my perspective, like I didn't want to focus on COVID and kind of the craziness of the dance world because this podcast will live on well beyond the pandemic.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, we're being very hopeful, you know, and that the dance world will come back the way that we know and love it.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_04: And that could be realistic, it can be unrealistic, but for now, hope and dedication is the way that you are gonna be successful on the other end of this.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I loved my brother's quote, which we've used throughout the pandemic for professional dancers, for training dancers, for competition dancers, is this time is not a hibernation, it's a preparation.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_04: Love that.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it just means that like don't waste your time now.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_04: You might be stuck at home, you know, like Leslie said earlier, like and Maddie about virtual stuff.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like, don't use this as downtime.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's a gift that you have time.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would just encourage uh dancers to use their resources.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be afraid to ask for help and know that your path can change.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: You can be on more than one path.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: You heard Casey's amazing career.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can be a commercial dancer and a concert dancer.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Don't put yourself in a box and find what fuels you.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Professional Dance Pathways.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow our awesome guests on Instagram.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: You can find Maddie at Maddie Kurt92 and PC at PC underscore notlet.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Also, be sure to check out Commercial Dance Intensive, a program designed to help prepare the next generation of dancers, not only in technique, but in the skills required to be successful in the professional dance world.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Head to their website to learn more and use some of their upcoming attentives, including CDI's summer event for ages 13 and over in June and July, or CBI's winter event in December.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Have you followed Making the Impact A Dance Competition Podcast yet?
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and anywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't had a chance to check out Dance Costumes by Urdua's new dancewear line, you are certainly missing out.
• 1:12:26
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• 1:12:32
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• 1:12:35
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• 1:12:40
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• 1:12:46
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• 1:12:50
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• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Making the Impact A Dance Competition podcast is nearing the end of season two.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned for our upcoming episodes, including topics like the most common corrections judges give at competition, a final spotlight episode featuring Miranda Davis, and an episode topic chosen by you, our listeners.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for joining us for this week's episode.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep dancing.