Latest / The Future of Canadian Curling / Episode 2: What We Must Never Lose
Transcript
- Kyle (00:10) Welcome to episode number two of the Future of Canadian Curling podcast. And this week we are talking about the soul of Canadian curling, the things that we must never lose. I'm Kyle Jahns. Welcome to the podcast, and of course, joined by Nolan Thiessen, Curling Canada CEO. And this week, Nolan, we're gonna talk about what we're exactly protecting—a little bit of traditions versus habits. The volunteerism that goes into it, and a lot of those invisible traditions that might come with that that people don't actually see happening behind the scenes, but are contributing greatly to the sport, What is it you believe that we should be protecting about our sport? Nolan Thiessen (00:51) What we need to protect is that sense of community, that sense of belonging. We talked about it a little bit on the last episode too, but There's this special thing about people who say I'm a curler and and that sense of identity, that sense of clubs being a hub for people. That's what we're always protecting. I always jokingly say, you know, we're not selling in-turns and out-turns, and we're not selling the sport, so to speak, on its own just because of the pure gameplay. What we're selling as a sport is the sense of belonging, the sense of community. You know, that certain people can have, you know, high-performance experiences. Some people can have purely grassroots experiences, but they feel like they're part of something bigger. And that's what we're protecting. You know, lots of other things can change, but that sense of home is what we gotta keep. Kyle (02:00) So let's explore that further then, that sense of community. It comes a lot from the sport's traditions. It comes from, as you expressed in this chapter, the handshake before the game, which I think is kind of a greater symbol for the spirit of curling, which we ultimately govern ourselves by and want to play to have a fair game of camaraderie, of, like, a shared experience that I think other sports don't have. But at times, those traditions can become habits, or things can happen for so long that we mistake them for tradition when they're really just habits. And you touch on this a little bit. And I wanted you just to make the case for taking a step back to reassess whether some of the ways that we play the sport and participate in the sport are Tradition or habit? Nolan Thiessen (03:00) You know, it's probably hard, and it's interesting because those two words can get interchanged by people quite a bit. And I know the word tradition can also scare people, but I think for me it's When it comes back to those experiences, right? And the experience of, you know, shaking someone's hand before and after the game and saying, like, good game. Like, I want you to play well. And and I want to play well and and I wanna have I wanna have fun out here and laugh and enjoy ourselves. That is something that makes you feel good. That's a good experience, right? But then There are other things that we've just done forever because that's how we've always done them that we can change, and it doesn't change that experience and that community aspect, right? And I know in the series there's the paper draw on the scoreboard and there's something fun and nostalgic about it, but there's also, you know, some modernization and some things that can always be done to improve things. A paper draw on the scoreboard is just a habit and can be changed. The things like, you know, the handshake before and after the game and wishing somebody good luck and good curling go back to that soul of curling and the spirit of curling that you talked about. Kyle (04:36) So how would you explain the soul of curling to someone who has never curled before? Nolan Thiessen (04:40) For me, it's a feeling of home. It's the feeling, you know. We've got one of our comments in some of our brand information is we want to be a sport where, you know, everybody might be different, but they feel like they've always belonged, and that's what the soul of curling is: you go in there, and you feel this sense of connection because you're just you're in a facility, right? Like, the soul of curling to me is me or anybody being able to talk to someone. You could be sitting beside them on an airplane, or, you know, somewhere that has absolutely nothing to do with curling, and someone says, I'm a curler, and you're like, I'm a curler too. And then you have this, like, unspoken, okay, we speak, we're in the same world. And we have the same values and the same beliefs, and that's the soul of curling. That's what is great about it is being able to tell someone, I'm a curler, and they say, I'm a curler too, and you almost have a friendship, kinship at that point. Kyle (05:58) Yeah, I totally agree with you on that in regards to how you can feel that instant connection and to me it just brings back those warm memories of what it was like to grow up in a curling club and be part of that community, like having a homemade chilli dinner during a junior bond spiel that on the weekend, right? From the tiny little kitchen in the back of a curling club underneath, like The staircase basically. And it brings back a lot. of good feelings, right? At the same time, how do we welcome people into that? I guess what I'm trying to get at is you and I both have Manitoba uproots, small town, prairie type of mo norms and morals. And we grew up in that atmosphere of being in the curling club. But that could be intimidating to someone who doesn't have that to begin with and doesn't know what it's all about. So how do we be open and welcoming to those who haven't had that experience and try and bring them into that fold? Nolan Thiessen (07:13) Yeah, I'm the same as you, right? Like, I remember curling clubs and some of the experiences all over the province. Between curling, baseball, and hockey, I've been in almost every town and rank or field in Manitoba. And that's what's amazing about it. You know, someone who used to work with us, Danny Lameru, he used to say, the best part about curling is that we are welcoming. The hardest part about curling is that there are no windows on our rinks. Right? People can't see in. They don't know what's on the other side. And they don't realize that it's welcoming, and some people are there that are saying, like, hey, is this your first time? You know, let me show you around, and I think to me that's That's how we need to do it: be less about o expecting people to come to us and more about going out there in the public and going, Look, if you come with me and you come into this place, this is gonna be your second home for the rest of your life. I think we know so many people who have come into the game and came into the game later in life and through various mechanisms, and all of a sudden they're like, I'm just part of curling now. I'm just part of it, right? And that's what's amazing. But what we got to do is go out in public and bring people in and provide those enjoyable, memorable experiences. And not a list of these are the things you have to do or like checks and balances. It's more like, come here, have fun, enjoy yourself. You know, smiling faces all around. That's the soul of the game. That's what has brought people into it. That's what brought me back into it over and over again over the years; it's not just because I thought I could be good at it. It was because, you know, you felt welcome. For me, it was, you know, leaving hockey behind and going into the men's league. The, you know, when I'm fifteen, sixteen with my buddies and having a whole group of curlers who are like, who look at these young kids that are in here, and you know, let's bring them along and let's make sure that they're welcome and say hi and say how you doing and great shot and those types of things, right? And those are the types of things that we gotta pass along. Kyle (10:02) So this just sparked a memory for me, honestly, where I was, you know, fourteen, a young teenager, basically, and then getting to compete in the men's league, like sparring for my dad or something. And then afterwards you go upstairs, and it's like nine PM, or maybe you're at the late draw, and it's getting up to eleven, and they're all there having a beer, and I'm drinking my Coke or Pepsi. And it felt so cool to be amongst, like, the These men, this other generation that I was able to connect with through it, that I wouldn't have had any other experience otherwise through any other sport. And you mention that, or you talk about curling as a community, and you talk about in this chapter that curling's community is its competitive advantage and its superpower. Explore that more for me. What exactly do you mean by competitive advantage? Nolan Thiessen (10:57) Well, I mean, as a sports system, we're, you know, we're providing opportunities for people for healthy living, for participation, you know, that community and sense of belonging and, you know, that social fitness, so to speak, right? People being out in the community, you know, sometimes curling can just be That's my thing to do. Twice a week, I'm actually out in the world and talking to other people and being around people that I enjoy spending time with, and the thing that you're talking about is exactly it because we can be a sport for life, right? You can be a fifteen-year-old kid and compete in a league against your dad or your grandpa or your mom or whatever, right? Like I remember being in that league and my dad's on another team and then, you know, eventually we get to the next level, and then we're playing, you know, it was actually one of my buddies and me on my team and our dads were on the same team, and then we're playing against them, right? Like, how many sports do you get to do that? And actually get that multi-generational participation. That's what's special about it, and that's what we can sell to people: look, this can be, you know, I say this all the time. You can come into curling at 10, 20 or 50 and still spend the rest of your life in our sport, right? You can come in at 50 and still have 40 years of being a part of our sport. How many sports get to say that? That's what I mean when I say that's our competitive advantage. That's the thing that we can sell to people. You don't have to start curling at eight; otherwise you can't ever do it. You can start curling at any time and be a part of our sport for the rest of your life. Kyle (13:14) So we've talked a lot about the soul of curling and what it means to us and what we believe are the most important things to carry forward into the future of the sport. But it's worth talking about how those traditions and values come together. And you talk about it in this chapter as the invisible traditions that come with it. It's the volunteerism. And in your chapter, you say that we treat volunteerism as a tradition, but expecting volunteers to take on the brunt of an ever-increasing workload is a habit. So where do you draw the line in preserving volunteerism, but not to the extent that it's total reliance on the entire sports system? Nolan Thiessen (14:07) Yeah, volunteerism is important, will always be important, is always a special thing, right? But you know, building out an entire business model around volunteerism is just taking on a lot of risk. It's also asking people to volunteer in a way that's not how they want to give back. I think volunteerism is inherently something where, you know, the person is trying to give back. They're saying, look, this is how I want to improve the system by taking this on. As soon as it feels like a burden, that's where we have a problem, right? And I think what we see as a sports system, and where the burden is on Clubs and member associations and Curling Canada and all of those things, and throughout an entire system, just saying, well, we'll get some volunteers to look after this, is just a recipe for slow erosion, right? And that's where, you know, the ideas behind finding a way to have some professional working class. That are the leaders and then supported through volunteers is a way actually to improve the system. And that's where, you know, obviously, as we've said from the start, this series is gonna have some provocative questions asked. And, you know, there are a lot of people who will say, What do you mean volunteerism shouldn't be? And it's like, I wanna be very clear. We're not saying volunteerism needs to go away. What we're saying is that we need a professional working class to support that volunteerism so that volunteerism feels like giving back and feels, you know, like the person's, why you're filling their cup, so to speak. It's not feeling like I have to do this, otherwise the club's not gonna function. Right. They want to do it as I want to do this because I want the club to be better, not out of a burden sense. Kyle (16:36) It's, yeah. I can think of countless stories in my own personal life where I think of, you know, the junior leagues and learn-to-curl programs that I took part in, run by a volunteer. And it it's it's it's not necessarily the most sustainable way of doing things. But at the same time, so much of the core of my curling experience comes from what that volunteerism felt like. And so it's an interesting concept because so much of what curling means to me and probably to many people is the community and how it comes together. What do you see changing in regards to that? What does that actually look like? Nolan Thiessen (17:25) Yeah, I know this series doesn't have all the answers, but it's, you know, I know for us it's one of the things that we're focusing on when we're saying how can we actually fix a constraint in the system, and one of the constraints in the system right now is the overreliance on volunteers to carry the burden. So for us it's how do we sort of coach up the system through professionalism, right? Like the association of curling professionals. And I know that creates, you know, a lot of questions between coaching and, you know, what is a true professional? And I've always looked at it as, you know, we're looking at it as having, like, club pros, so to speak, right? Someone who knows how to teach curling, but someone who also knows how to run the business end of the club and is paid to do it and can go out there and market for the club to continue that pipeline of people to come in and experience the sport and be a part of the sport. Having people at the grassroots level who understand not only the sport but also the business aspect of it is vitally important and that's kind of where we're pushing it. Because the problem that we're trying to solve is the idea of, like, I'm not sure, I'm volunteering for a couple years, I'll recreate what we did last year. We're encouraging that kind of conversation to say I'm trying something different because I know I'm gonna have a job next year. And if it works Great, if it doesn't, I can try something different next year. Still, it's all toward the same strategic purpose: improving operations, improving game delivery, and providing those memorable experiences. Kyle (19:33) That might look different for every curling facility and club as well. I think of rural prairie areas that might not have as big of a budget. They may have to look at a different solution where they're looking at sharing resources with other nearby clubs or that type of thing. Nolan Thiessen (19:51) Well, and you know what, we're seeing that even in, like, the ice makers world, right? There are ice makers who are the chief ice tech for multiple clubs, right? Like maybe there's a way to do that. And one of the things that, you know, Bobby from our club development side of our business, he always says, you know, I understand like, we understand the jump from going from if I don't have paid staff to having paid staff seems like possible. But we're like, we propose, well, why don't you try one program? Why don't you try one program and pay one person, so it's not a huge risk? You know, you set up the whole program based around a way to pay for their stipend plus a little bit extra so the club gets something out of it, you know, saying, Hey, we're gonna pay you. To run the adult learn-to-curl every Saturday at 10 a.m. for an hour for the next 10 weeks. We're gonna pay you X amount. Every person who comes in, it's 20 bucks or whatever you want to set up the business plan. But start with that, right? Start with something where it's like it's small, it's in the it's in the idea of what we're proposing. and then See the value in that and then expand. We've got to look long term and not say, I can't do this today. Agreed, we can't do this today. But what steps do we take now to start to do some of those things to eventually get to the point where it, you know, there's a ton there's a ton of clubs in the country that can say, I have a club pro who's running my curling club. Kyle (21:47) This has been a really good discussion over the soul of curling. We've covered a lot of what that ultimately is, expanded a bit on how that can also change a little bit as well. Nolan, if you could have a listener here take like one Key important thing away from this entire conversation, what would it be? Nolan Thiessen (22:08) Curling can be your sport for life. Curling can be your home whenever you want to; whenever you want to arrive, we're your home. If you need to leave for a while, leave, and you can come back, and we're still your home. I think that's the biggest thing that I would say about our sport, and the biggest thing that I would want to share with everybody, Facilities may look different in years to come. The sport can change, but the identity of being a curler is who we are, who we've always been, and who we will always continue to be.