Latest / The Person behind the Position / When Calling Becomes Identity with Mike Muccio

Transcript

When Calling Becomes Identity with Mike Muccio · The Person behind the Position

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the person behind the podcast podcast that looks
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: beyond what people do to discover who they are.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm your host.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Welcome to The Person Behind the Position. I'm Michael Chisholm.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: My guest was thriving in the hospitality world when Zig
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Ziglar took him under his wing. Years later, running a church,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: he had a vision, specific, vivid picture, something happening in heaven.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: He didn't file it away. He turned it into a
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: stage drama.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Before Knight Street, his church was packed and lives were changed.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: 35 years later, that same vision wouldn't let him go.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: This fall, it finally became a novel.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: His attempt to answer the question most of us never
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: actually sit with.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Where does evil begin?
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: What does understanding that give you power over?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Please welcome Michael Muccio.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: It's great to be here, Michael. What a great introduction.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: I certainly enjoyed the, I want to hear that guy speak.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: So Michael, so I want to start before the books
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and before the.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Pulpit.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So you were successful in hospitality, met Zig Ziglar, joined
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: his organization, trained businesses on effectiveness and productivity.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Yes. Who was Michael in that season of his life?
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Well, I was a nightclub manager climbing the corporate ladder,
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: very successful with motor hotel management owned by Prudential Life Insurance.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: The more money I made, the more wine, women, and
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: song in that industry, the more I said to myself,
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: if this is all life has to offer, it's going
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: to be a miserable life. And in that, I went
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: into a bookstore. I've been raised Catholic and I was
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: the worst Catholic in the family. So I had been
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: following God for years. I bought a Bible because I'd
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: never read the Bible. And I bought The Sea at
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: the Top, a book written by Zig Ziglar. Well, I
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: saw he was in Dallas. I went and met him.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Ended up leaving. He took me under his wing. He
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: helped me find a relationship with God. So I went
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: from this wretched, dark room, into the brightness of having
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: a personal relationship with God, with Jesus. And then through that,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I left the nightclub business, went to work with him.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: So then I started going and consulting businesses that couldn't
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: afford Zig, Michael, but they could afford me. Zig would
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: go to the big clients with many thousands of people.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: I would go to the offices with 100 or 200 people,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: the smaller businesses. But both teaching the concepts that he
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: was mentoring me with, the principles. So I loved it,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: enjoyed it a great deal. But then I felt called
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: of God into ministry and went to there.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what did your calling ask you to leave behind,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: not just professionally, but personally?
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I didn't.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I didn't know at the time, but it ended up
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: a lot of the people that were in my life
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: prior didn't, they didn't want any part of my life anymore.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: Because I, all I wanted to do was talk about
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: God and the Bible. So there I am in the
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: nightclub business and I'm trying to lead all the cocktail
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: waitresses and the, and the bartenders and everybody. And, and they,
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: they didn't want any part of that. And so soon
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: I realized, you know, this isn't, This isn't the environment.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: I'm not changing lives. The reason I'm looking for purpose
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: is to wanting to impact lives. So when I went
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: to work with Zig, that's a part of his life.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: He was known as father of motivational speakers and very,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: very popular, wrote 30 books and they paid him $ 70, 000
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: for one hour talk, but he was a businessman. But
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: in the business community, he was also not ashamed of
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: the gospel. He wasn't ashamed to bring out the gospel.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: So I kind of learned from, from him that, that
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: God wants us to be, uh, uh, to be all
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: things to all men, as the scripture says that we might,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: we might impact the more we might win the more.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: And so that's kind of what that looked like. I
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: think that's getting at your question, but the calling, I
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: felt I wanted to, I wanted to do something that
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: was making a difference because prior to that, Michael, I
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: was just trying to get people to drink more. The
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: more they drank, the more money I was going to
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: be making. But now, and I realized that wasn't taking
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: me or them anywhere. So now I'm going in and
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: I'm talking to people about how they can be the
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: best version of themselves, how they can have success in
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: seven areas of life. One of those areas being a
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: personal relationship with God. So that's what that looked like.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: So how do you separate Michael, the person, from Pastor Michael?
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a deep question, Michael. I appreciate that, too.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: That kind of gets right at what I was talking
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: to the Lord about today, this morning in prayer. I'm
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: a lover of God, and I love people. And one
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: of the verses that is important to me is that
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: I can be happy and I can be content, um, no,
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: no matter what. And I want to, um, so it's
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: my personal relationship with God comes first, my personal relationship
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: with people, loving people, accepting people, uh, as they are
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: and believing in that bigger, better person on the inside
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: of them. Um, I'm, I think back to some of
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: the things I did in ministry. So I, I, But
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: it was out of the overflow of an intimate, close
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: relationship with God. And I noticed that if it comes
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: from there, it makes a difference. If I'm putting on
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: the professional ministry hat, it's like that comes across either
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: phony or not as real and as genuine and as
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: sincere and authentic as when I'm I'm following, it's almost
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: like I'm inviting people to follow the Lord as I
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: do when I'm doing it God's way.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Okay. So has there ever been a season when the
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: role of pastor became so consuming that it.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Was difficult to know where the position ended and you began?
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there was. When I got in one of
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: my ministries, I became so focused on the church, and
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: when I came home, I wasn't putting on the husband
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: hat very well. I was bringing the problems home with me,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: and I became more wrapped up in who I was
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: as a pastor and And as a leader, because I
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: would go, I prayed with the mayor for two years
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: every week. I'd go pray with him as a representative.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: I would pull all the pastors together and we'd pray
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: for revival in the area. So I got too caught
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: up and enamored in all that I was doing as
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: a doer. And I lost sight of the most important part,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: which is a relationship with my wife. and my kids,
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: and I was essentially, I guess you could say a workaholic.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: And that was a wake-up call. And I became very,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: very broken as I discovered that I was trying to
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: impress God with my work ethic instead of being caught
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: up and being impressed by Him and His goodness and
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: His mercy and His kindness.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: I heard somebody say that sometimes we get so.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Busy with the work of God that we.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Forget about the God of the work.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Have you experienced that?
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: I have. I absolutely have. And that's part of the
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: story of what I was just sharing is if I
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: would have been more about the business of my personal
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: relationship with God and that that was the number one thing.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: I'm created to give him pleasure. He has an inheritance
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: in my life. But if I'm taking the reins and
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: I'm running things in my own, I should be the
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: same guy in the grocery store or walking in the
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: gym as I am behind the pulpit. I mean, either
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: you're walking with God or you're not. And so in
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: the business community, I need to be just real. If
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: I'm there, if I'm in a business and I'm teaching
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: a group of people how to be more effective in sales,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: I'm there to teach them that. I'm not there to
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: talk to them about God. But that's part of who
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I am. As they talk to me one-on-one, they'll ask
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: me questions, but I can be real and genuine because
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: it's the relationship with God that comes first. So, yeah,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: that's a really good point.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, so 35 years ago, you said you received a
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: vision that first became a church drama and then eventually
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: became evil's first breath.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Why do you think that experience stayed with you
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: for 35 years?
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Boy, that's a, I think it was part of, part
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: of me is my apprehension and my fear or whatever to,
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: to not want to, to not want to make a
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: big deal out of it, make it public. It's not
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: something I would have picked. So it's like, he just
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: gave it to me. I had the experience and then
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: I started building on it, started coming more and I
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: didn't do anything, Michael, for seven years. And then seven
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: years into it is when I wrote the church drama.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: And one of the most successful things we ever did
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: in ministry, packed out the church for seven nights or
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: for four nights straight, standing room only, and then impacting people.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: Did a sequel the next year, same thing. But then
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: I let it alone, just let it go until this fall.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: And I felt like if I didn't finish it, if
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I didn't do it, that I was going to be
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: in disobedience. So I'm so grateful that I did. No
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: matter what happens with the book, I'm grateful. I feel
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: like I obeyed something that he gave me and I.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Obeyed.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: And so that was important to me. But I'm grateful
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: that it's impacting other people's lives. I just got a
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: text this morning from somebody who I saw him at
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: the gym, gave him a card. And he went and
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: bought the book and read it. And he said, this
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: is a great book. He says, I'm telling everybody about it.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: And so- You know, that's wonderful. I'm glad that it's
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: speaking to him because it changed my life in just
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: writing the full message and getting it down for posterity
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: for whoever is exposed to it in the future. So
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: it changed my life, drew me closer to God, created
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: greater intimacy for God. And so I'm happy that it's
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: impacting anybody else.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: So you spent years or decades speaking, counseling, consulting, preaching,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and helping other people understand patterns.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: In their lives.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: What has Michael had to learn the hard.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Way about his own patterns?
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: That if it's like, if you're, if you're taking up
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: golf and you're golfing, if you get into bad habits
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: and with your golf swing, you're going to have to
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: undo the bad habits before you take on the good habits.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: And that's the same way with how we treat people.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: If I'm going to have the fruits of the spirit
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to love people and they're going to
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: sense that I do love them and care about them,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: then I need to recognize the fear, the anxiety, the worry,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: the kind of stuff that is blocking love. Because there's
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: a propensity, at least in my life, there's a propensity
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: to take the easy way to go the way of,
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: the Bible teaches, talks about the works of the flesh.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: So we have three enemies. We've got the world, the flesh,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: and the devil. But there's one puppet master. There's one leader.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Of all of that.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: And that is evil. And evil is, you know, the
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Bible says that we wrestle not with flesh and blood,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: but with principalities and powers. So If that's the case,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: if that's who I'm wrestling with, then I need to,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: I need to understand that in order to be the
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: best version of Michael that I can be.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: So do you find yourself still wrestling?
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's, I believe it's a daily, it's
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: a daily battle. You know, you, you, two days ago,
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: I was, I was frustrated about something and complaining to
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: myself and, and is this, God knew that I was
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: in a state of just negative. And I, you know,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: people can try to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: And I know people believe in a God that's just,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: or they just believe in energy or they believe in
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: the secret. You know, they're going to manifest and attract
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: good things by their thoughts and their feelings. Well, that's good.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: I think that God wants us to have loving thoughts
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: and joyful thoughts and feel that way. But when I'm
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: in trouble, I'm difficult, I run to a personal God.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: And so that's what I did that day. And I
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: just started talking to God and I said how sorry
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: that I was for getting negative and complaining to myself.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: And I was in that state for, you know, some
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: 30 minutes. And then I felt the presence of God,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: the forgiveness of God, and that my mistakes are not
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: bigger than and his sacrifice when he died on the
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: cross and he shed his blood for my sins. And
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: so it's through that personal interaction with him that then
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: I was able to step back into a place of
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: joy and gratitude.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, so hospitality, business consulting, ministry, and writing can look different,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: can look like very different lives. When you look across
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: all of them What part of Michael has remained the same?
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Just the enthusiasm for wanting to improve and to make
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: an impact on other people. You know, when I was
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: in the hospitality industry, I wanted to be the best
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: nightclub manager that they had. We had 67 properties and
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I was a young man at So I wanted to
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: have the best cost in the company. What I ended
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: up doing that lowest expense cost, but yet second highest
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: in revenue. So the 67 properties, I have one of
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: the best. So that, that's, that's me. That's me. I
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: want to be excellent. I want to do the thing.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: So they're flying me around the country, have asking me
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: to develop my systems elsewhere. And, uh, But that's also
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: when I realized the more money I made, the more
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: recognition I got, I wasn't going to be happy.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I wanted more.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: I wanted purpose. So then when I went to work
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: for Zig, I felt like the very nature of what
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: he stood for was giving people purpose. But the same
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: person that was excellent in corporate America, I wanted to
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: be excellent with Zig. So I ended up being the
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: number one salesperson that he had. And then from there,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: when I started doing consultings, I thrived on having a,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: my publisher of my book told me when I did,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: I met them years ago as a consultant. He said
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: it was the wisest thing he ever did when he
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: hired me to come in and speak to his, both
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: his line employees and his executives. He got them all
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: in the room and for two weeks straight from six
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: o'clock in the evening till nine o'clock, we taught a course. So,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: That same person. And then when I'm in as a pastor,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: I'm wanting to make an impact. If I'm sitting one-on-one
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: with somebody, I want to be used by God to
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: make an impact. So that person that wants to make
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: a dent in the universe has stayed the same no
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: matter what I've done. But boy, what a difference when
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: you feel like you're doing it for a greater purpose
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: beyond yourself and beyond just success and accomplishment.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Excellence.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: I'm doing it because it's an eternal vision. That's the
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: difference now. But the consistency is the excellence and the
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: pursuit of excellence.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Do you see these as different chapters or different expressions
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: of one calling?
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: You know, that's an interesting way to put it, Michael,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: because when I was climbing the corporate ladder in The
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: Lord was teaching me leadership principles, and he was teaching
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: me systems thinking right then that I would use later
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: in ministry. So God is always teaching if we're listening.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: So he.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: I learned there, then I would learn a whole different
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: set of skills when I was in sales and a
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: different set of skills when I was a consultant, but
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: it all moved me to make me more effective in ministry.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: And now I'm in a new chapter. Instead of pastoring
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: a church, I'm speaking, going around. Anybody that is, you know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: I'll speak to a rotary club. I'll speak to an
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: athletic team. I'll speak to a business. I'll speak to
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: a church. Whoever is interested in listening to what Michael
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: has to say.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: So you've been a hospitality leader, a consultant, a trainer,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: a pastor, a counselor, a speaker, and an author. But
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: for a moment, I'm going to take all of those away.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: No pulpit, no business, no audience, no books, no title
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: telling us who you are.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Who are you behind the position?
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Man, at this point, I'm a I'm a I and
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: in fact, I have said this to the Lord many times.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: There's a Bible story of a woman that was had
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: been so wretched. She'd been, you know, a prostitute and
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: she came and she was so grateful that for the
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: mercy of God, that she took very expensive perfume and
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: poured it on his feet and then wept and cried
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: over her own sins, but how grateful she was for
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: the mercy of God. And she wiped Jesus' feet with
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: her long hair and her tears and the perfume. And
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: I remember when I went through that dark night of
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: the soul time where I was discovering the inconsistency in
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: my life and that I wasn't I wasn't the loving
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: person at home that I wanted to be. I realized,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: I said, Lord, I don't know what you're going to
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: do with the rest of my life, but I can
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: do what that lady did. And I will say that
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: to the Lord, usually a couple of different times a month,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: there'll be something where I can say, just exactly what
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: you just said, take everything away and I can sit
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: at your feet and love you for the rest of
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: my life because I am so grateful for your mercy
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: and your forgiveness. and that you've given me the opportunities
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: you have. I'm so grateful for a wonderful family, so
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: proud of my kids, proud of my grandkids. I mean,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: they're a good kind of pride. I shouldn't say pride, right?
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I like that question though, Michael. That's a
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: good one. You're asking a lot of good questions. You're
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: a good interviewer there, Mr.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Michael. I appreciate that.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I've had to learn, you know, learn myself in this
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: season of taking all the positions away, which is how
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: this podcast was birthed.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Because of, you know, moving, you know, transitioning from, you know,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: down south back to the north and kind of everything
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: being kind of taken away at the same time.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: And it was like, well, who is Michael? Yeah.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: And that journey has been an arduous one, but it's
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: still been a journey.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And I'm still on it.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: And I like to kind of grab people along the
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: way who are on their own journeys. And today we appreciate.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: You sharing your journey with us.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you, you know, showing us that, that you
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: can still find purpose. And it doesn't have to be,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: you know, four or five different positions.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: It can still be one purpose.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: No matter what lane or, you know, role that we
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: find ourselves on.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I love it.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: So sometimes life doesn't simply give us another position. It
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: asks us whether we're willing to become someone we never
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: expected to be. So, Michael, thank you for allowing us
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: to meet the person behind the position.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Beautiful.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Michael. It's been an honor to be on
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: your show. And, boy, I wish you all the success.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I'm Michael Chisholm, and this is the person behind the position.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed this episode, share it with your friends.