Latest / Building 341 / Phil Hall/ Life and Times a Funk, Blues & R&B Legend

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Phil Hall/ Life and Times a Funk, Blues & R&B Legend · Building 341

• DJ Rubbaban: and gentlemen, welcome to Building 341 with DJ Rubber Band and Caddy B. We in the house, y'all. And we just on a vibe. We just on the chill vibe today. We got a special guest in the house tonight. He goes by the name of Pops, Phil. He's from West Oakland. He's performed with a lot of famous people over the years. He's toured internationally. He got groupie stories he can't tell us because it's PG. You know, we all PG. You know, I really wanted him tell me about some of the midgets from the 70s, but he ain't telling none of that about the midgets, you know. Which one? See? See? See? There you go. I'm sorry. See? So, Katty, you want to ask pops a question? ⁓ was saying blues and all kinds of Bay Area artists. What's your favorite genre that you listen to now? See, that's a hard question. We only got 38 minutes. We only got 38 minutes, pops. The most honest answer I can give is that I get this question asked by a lot of people. And I've been that person who has liked so much of any types of music. I'm talking soul, funk, R &B, Can you just tell us Donny Hathaway? That's one. That style is one. That style is one. But so was the Grateful Dead. So was Grace Slick. So was Hendrix. So was the Isley Brothers, who, the way, Hendrix used to play guitar with the Isley Brothers. Back in the day. know? So, in Who's your favorite, though? Wait a In fact... No, no, in fact, I got to say this. This one thing is that it reminded me that... Jimmy Hendrix convinced Ernie Isley to play guitar instead of playing drums. Okay. Yeah. Now Ernie Isley played drums on a lot of those tunes, Fight the Power and stuff back in the day. That's just a side note. who I, so I've liked a lot of different groups. ⁓ you know, when the Beatles came out. Do feel like you can't give us ⁓ Direct answer what's your instrument of choice? What should I know you play multiple instruments? But what's your instrument of choice instrument of choice is probably is probably guitar I played more of it. I mean, I didn't do that all the time because I played saxophone, trombone, and especially back in the 70s, in the late 60s. Look at you bragging. Your groupie numbers was way up back then. Well, you know, was when R &B bands, was band, it was horn bands. was like, you had your rhythm section, you had two or three, four horns. And I played baritone sax and trombone in the funk band. And then... Morphed over into guitar now. I'm gonna ask you the question again Who's your favorite artist right now who you listening to? Dre he from the bay you from the bay Johnny Watson you played the guitar. Did you like Johnny guitar? ⁓ Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I liked all these guys But but again, there's so many of them I've got you ain't giving me one You know and I may not be able to because I know no no no because I mean I've got too much respect and coming through with all these guys I can name a guy by the name of Carl Lockett that you've never heard of, but the guy has played with Jimmy Smith. He's played with these big, anybody who's anybody. Who's the first person you met professionally that really scared you that you played with? Like when you said, dang, I'm really playing with Johnny Guitar Watson. Like I remember for me going to a show, and this sometimes, this is how it happened as being a musician. You go to a show and you're backstage and you see everybody. And then somebody goes, Rubba, why don't you MC the first act? then I go up and I'm being me and I'm talking and Snoop right there and Corrupt. And he come over and give me a pound. And I go out and I introduce Snoop and everybody's like. ⁓ boy, you were Snoop. I'm like, I just introduced him because the industry is so, you know what I mean? And so I could use that. I can put that on my, on my Wikipedia. A lot of name dropping. You know what I mean? So for you, who was that that you sat down and pick with, even though I can't make that comparable to yours, that you just, What about some of the Bay Area? you? Well, I think it would be more of people that came through with the Bay Area, like Confunction as an example. through with Confunction. We all grew up together. They were out of Bel Air. We were out of Oakland. No different than hip hop being out of Bel Air or being out of Oakland. used to be called Project Soul back in the day. ⁓ I was with a band from Oakland, Oakland, Emeryville called ⁓ The Syndicate. but, you know, so we all grew up there. Now what happens is, you know, either the bands, both of the bands, you go this way or maybe one of them and then one fades away and we fade away. Yeah, the same with hip hop, But they also got the break because of and something happened, ⁓ some record, somebody needed somebody. And, and. they got with the right people, changed the name and that's what happened. So, you know, knowing them and then knowing the other people in the Bay Area or being on shows with people like the Whispers, the other Bay Area bands, the Ballads, the Fabulous Ballads. Now let me ask you a question. I'm gonna ask you a question because you said the Whispers. So it's a famous story about the Whispers. A lot of people thought the Whispers, were from the Bay Area because they were so supported. You know, they were so supported in the Bay Area. And so when they made that famous song about your town, because one thing that the Bay Area was known for in the seventies was pimping and pandering. Right. And so I know you got some famous ones on that. The Ward Brothers. Yeah. you did that. Yeah. Give me a Ward Brothers story. But one of the famous stories I want you to speak on it was When they did that song, Olivia, the pimps got mad. Oh, and they'll say, don't even Because remember that song, Olivia, Look It Up by the Whispers. Olivia, it's a song about a woman selling her body and that she shouldn't be doing it. Right. Olivia. OK. You know what I mean? And so they talk about it when they did they unsung. Okay, I'm gonna go back and look at that. Now the Whispers, the Whispers were from LA. But they can't, but they was in the Bay a lot. But see what happened was Sly Stone was a DJ at KSOL. Right. Okay, now he used to, in fact, Sly Stone had an old piano in the room, guitar, he was a late night, so he'd be playing and singing and stuff. But he brought them, supposedly, this is the story I heard, he had them come to Oakland. That's why we felt that... ⁓ They were from, most people think that they're from the Oakland. in Oakland, we had ⁓ several clubs. There was a guy ⁓ the, basketball player by the name of Don Barksdale who owned the club called The Showcase and he owned the Sportsman's Club. And so anybody who's everybody, you know, passed through these places. And ⁓ you see the Whispers there. You could see the Whispers in, or whoever. So there were other clubs, was Continental Club, even Motown, all the bus that you see pictures of. They would come through the Bay Area. They would come through the Bay Area. Now during this time also, keep in mind, now I'm talking kind of the R &B-ish kind of side of Are we talking the 50s, 60s, ⁓ We're talking about early 60s that I remember. Okay. And then, but keep in mind, I'm talking about the R &B-ish side of things there. There was still... The early R &B. Right. There was still blues kind of... How do I want to say it? It was bluesy, not the down home... Right, right. Delta stuff. Yeah, it was more polished. But you had Johnny Taylor and people like that. But you had people ⁓ like and stuff like that. We gotta turn you on to E.J. Jones. ⁓ He like... Johnny Taylor. okay. Yeah, and see that was gas station. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we got to turn you on to that. So that was going on also in in in in Richmond and Vallejo and you know, Jimmy McCracklin and a lot of these a lot of these guys and then we had all the local groups and a lot of us played with each other behind different different people. And that's one of the things I wanted to point out. I was thinking about when I was thinking about it earlier, I said, you know, one of the what in ⁓ some sometimes ⁓ is ⁓ we're ⁓ on people or the people who have ascended. And ⁓ not... Because there's a lot of people who they did they weren't interested in ascending They just they have to be a guitar player who plays guitar behind so-and-so and they wanted a cool That was their job So you never hear about these guys now if you go to the people who are actually playing and who in the scene it's Michael Jackson or whether it's anybody they say ⁓ yeah, ⁓ he did this and did that I mean people don't know that ⁓ you know the the guys from Toto and the guys from like Michael McDonnell all these cats were recession guys they were playing behind everybody Eddie Van Halen ⁓ Jackson's thriller album the steep, ⁓ lucather, Luke. Well, since pop, since she won't just give me a direct answer. You see what we doing? You see what we doing? Okay. Okay. Let me ask you, me, ⁓ me, ⁓ me what I deal with. me five. ⁓ ⁓ one. Give one. ⁓ Okay. favorites of time. Okay. Isley brothers, parliament, Funkadelic. Okay. Okay. Okay, I'll slip to just a Motown-ish thing and with all due respect to all the groups, but if I had to say who is your favorite vocal group, it's The Temptation by far. Okay, just by far. Does that have something to do with the instruments that you play or your vocals? I think it's both. Because you can sing. I think it's both. do you sing in? I never think about it, but I'm probably a tenor, for the most part. But because I like, because now during this time in the 60s, there was groups all out. Now you see the movies and they would do about groups on the corner and stuff like that. Okay, now during the mid 60s, late 60s, there's groups out there. Trying to make it they're trying to be like the temptations. You see how pops do me pops I want you to think about this. I y'all. I want y'all to leave some messages on this I want you to think about it if You was in that movie the five heartbeats. Which one would you be? ⁓ I would be ⁓ Robert Townsend. ⁓ you would be Duckie? Yeah, I'd be Robert Townsend because I would be the one... Writing the music. And yeah, I wanted to do this. This is what I want to do. I like this. I'm not interested in all So you wouldn't be old Eddie Kane, huh? No. You would be Duckie, huh? Yep, definitely. That's an easy one. Now, see, we want the rest. What you got to say, Caddy? What you got? Any questions, Caddy? I want to hear the rest of the five. ⁓ okay, got it. See, Caddy keeping us grounded. Caddy keeping us grounded. So we got up to the... So you got temptations. Right. Now, as a... As a group. we're getting into... ⁓ again, bringing it forward a little bit. It's gonna be Toto. I was a horn player, you know, ⁓ like the horn band so bragging again, I like it. I love it. I love it So were to be like James Brown. No, no. Well, James Brown is our power. We went to now tower power. Yeah, is that in your fire? Tower powers in my don't use that just cuz I said that no it would I'm glad to run cuz I thought I didn't think about it because because Tower Power, we did a show with Tower Power in San Jose. I love when you start bragging. Listen, at the Fred Astaire Dance Studio, somebody had I don't know if you should brag, you should have said that part. No, no, wait a minute, they just rented the hall. Right, right, right. Okay, so they were not Tower Power at the time, they used to be called the Motowns. ⁓ really? Now at that time they had three horns. Steve was in there, Doc, Kuka the baritone player, and Miguel and I can't think of the other guy's name. Okay so and then as time went on they once They got the deal, the record, they added the horns and oh absolutely and you know everybody was covering and we used to cover all their songs. Oh you did? I had a big group at one time called the Music Complex and it was a lot of younger guys in the band who loved Tower Power, who loved that so we did, we covered a lot of that song, covered a lot because they, we just all loved the music. And ⁓ so certainly Tower Power. See, you talk about, know, I have to say, my daughter asked me this, my youngest daughter asked me what the first concert that I went to. And again, I couldn't answer the question because I know we're fighting you to get to the meat and potatoes because I'm in. Are you talking about the first concert I paid to go to or because I was at all the concerts because I knew somebody I was backstage or that's what I'm saying. The backstage. was your first concert that gave you that feeling? Yeah. And the love for music. So when somebody asks you what your first concert was, what was first concert that gave you that feeling in your soul to where you was like, I want to be involved in this. Wow, I answer I'm sorry, you know the reason being because I didn't start going to concerts until I was adult and I was a much I was also But did you play music? So you didn't play music ever went to never paid to go see you know, so you didn't play music When did you first start playing music? no, I was playing in bands. What? that was that was ⁓ was in 10th grade 10th going to 11th I think. And so your mom didn't let you go to concerts or you just didn't? I just wasn't interested. mean, we were doing our meeting. That's what we were interested in. None of us did. So you were more interested in playing. So we were already playing and doing gigs and in the scene, you know, in the 11th grade or 12th grade. So what was inspiring you in the 10th grade? Well, I always liked music. I started out, my mom played, my mom sang, my dad played harmonica. OK. And he played, I remember playing about three or four songs and I learned how to play those three or four songs to this day on harmonica. And so of my brothers ⁓ and the other one played like upright bass back in the 60s. ⁓ And ⁓ I was interested in it. So I started out in, well, to to junior high school where my mom and rented me an alto sax. And okay, I learned to play it. knew how to... finger and stuff then I kind of lost interest in it and went into vocal music, choir and stuff like that. Quartets and stuff like that then semester goes by again. Okay now and now I'm really now I want to get back in the instrumental music Okay, I remember at that time it was there were no there was only one or two instruments available one was French But then the schools do at that time they had you know music in the school. Oh, yeah Yeah, you know they had classes and they had multiple verse now What was the first song you really felt like you did well with like? Like it's certain songs I really love but I can't hit that kind of note. But what was the first song that you played that you sang that you was like, I'm kind of good. boy, did I sing. Because see, I didn't start singing in Look at you, pops, pops. Just give me. No, no, no, no, listen. It's more, woo, we sounded good when I a horn player. because now we're sounding like James Brown. Now we're sounding like this band. Now we're sounding like Chicago because we're learning these tunes. And so this is when we kind of knew. But being a tenor, James Brown ain't a tenor. No, no, no, no, I'm not a tenor. I'm just talking about playing. Performing, that's when I knew. So the performance side of it made you feel like you more of an entertainer. No, no, no. The performance side of me would just sort of, it just kind of happened. And it happened during this Tower Power band kind of thing we had it was like ⁓ god i i can sing i i could i was i'm okay singing what song though give us a song even if it's somebody else's song ⁓ boy it doesn't be no no no i'm sorry it was a tower of power song so i mean it had because we did like six episodes so had to be like i can't even think of a power it was that first album like ⁓ the one with the sign the oakland sign on it yeah ⁓ Sparkling in the sand that album during that time. What is hip and You know what I get them I shouldn't no disrespect but I get them and the average white band Because I used to listen to those two albums a lot, you know, right and and you know again on with that What's a popular song they got? What's the popular song on there? There's a Sparklin' the Sparklin' in Sand. Knock Yourself Out, Social Lubrication. Knock Yourself Out. did Social Lubrication, but that wasn't one. was like... Discount the Goose and the Fly. Oh, God. This is going back. Yeah. Back in the Streets again. Back in the Streets again. Now, which part would you sing on there? I was singing... At that time, I sang late. Okay. So we gonna listen to that later so I can see your... We didn't sing karaoke and Pops was like, no, I need a different key. So when you sing karaoke and people explain the key, they can sing. Well, yeah, because you can't sing it like the record. Have you ever been to just regular karaoke? I have. I have. And that's what I did. I said, you know, I'd asked the DJ, the guy doing the karaoke, I said, you know, what key is this song in? And I think it was a Temptation song. ⁓ He said he said something I said, you know change it to be flat or something because it was too because it was too high. I'm not David Ruffin, you know. You know, I can't. You ducky. You ducky. You Robert Townsend. even even Robert Townsend. Even Ruffin had a time when I know you want to. Yeah, there's a whole story behind. Now we got auto tunes and we all can sound like David Ruffin or Smokey Robinson. Right. Right. Right. Did you feel Smokey? Like, how did you feel about Smokey? Because he had such a distinct sound and it was generations. It was a couple he had a long run. I like like smoky. I like a lot of his song He wasn't my because I wasn't into that that voice that boy but the writing the The group itself because a lot of those songs were just like oh my god, know, I mean he he is I mean without I I would venture to say If there were no Smokey, there'd be no Motown. Right. As it has come to be because he wrote a lot of that stuff. But it wouldn't have been no Robert Townsend. Yeah. If it wasn't no Robert Townsend, maybe wouldn't have been no Temptations. know? You know? I mean, who know, with ⁓ with. ⁓ you know back to be area music you tower power is bay area whispers we call them bay area of the fabulous balance we call a barrier of jill techs i think it was even you know area so taxes from the bank i believe so or he was here a lot you know Ray Charles, the guy he played with before he went solo. We didn't mention no female Bay Area people either. You know what? I'm trying to think of a female Bay Area. I'd have to think about that. Who, who, ⁓ now, why not? There was a group and we used to play behind these, these girls. They were called the. Taste of honey? The Sisters Three, they're from Oakland. The Stove All Sisters, know, just like the Pointy Sisters, you from the Bay Area. And we used to play for them, and sure many people don't know this little tidbit. They sang, there's a song by this guy called Norman Greenbomb, Spirit in the Sky. remember the song? Spirit in the Sky. They background on that song. And ⁓ in we were backing them during the time she recorded this, and they recorded this, and we didn't even know until later. ⁓ I they just kept it under wraps until it was released or something, and stuff like that. But, ⁓ know, sister, Bay ⁓ Area. They from the Bay too? ⁓ absolutely. ⁓ I love the Pointer Sisters. church, out of church. Yeah, Pointer Sisters. Did they live in West Oakland or East Oakland? I want to think they were in East Oakland. I'm thinking about, ⁓ I think of any other. I know there are some other singers, None comes to mind. ⁓ this time, I ⁓ saying, the bands, we here. ⁓ There the ⁓ Vileo we kind of all, it was Did you guys get along back then? ⁓ yeah, yeah. It was a lot of competition. ⁓ fact, remember playing at the Richmond Auditorium. were against Project Conjunction at the time. and they beat us. surprisingly cause everybody, yeah, they really respected us. And I come to find out a lot of this stuff later. I was talking to one of the guys from, ⁓ a player, the current with Confunction, but the original, ⁓ and Paul. And Harrell his name is. And he said, yeah, I used to come over to the house to hear you guys practice. And I'm thinking, You know, these are guys who got the contract and got the records and got all the doing the tours and stuff like that. Now, what's the guy from what's the guy from Confunction that did a lot of the early MC Hammer music? ⁓ that's Felton. And actually, his birthday was yesterday or day before ⁓ Pilot. Now, Felton, again, Felton was in another band and Michael got him to come join back in the day. So that's how that happened. And you still in contact with Coop, right? Yeah, occasionally. Yeah, we would online or something. And guys, you know, they managed to keep it together. And I think in the band now, it's three original members. But. They do alright. So being that you've seen so much of the music industry and how it's grown and changed, do you feel it's still the same as it was back then? To where your bands would all kind of know each other and stuff and it's... Well it's just, you know, doesn't... Was there more camaraderie back then? I think there was more... ⁓ I don't remember any negative competition. It was always... You know fun stuff. I mean we all just wanted to play but they you guys would take each other's girls though, right? I mean, I'm sure that may have happened to one or two times but I'm not at liberty That's all we need. We just need a little meat potato We you know, we don't want to know who got pregnant and if you got any kids at Richmond We just want to know you know that did happen Because now let's switch it to your international travels and how was that when play somewhere else, like outside of your community? ⁓ You ⁓ for feeling like was a big fish in a small town, when I would places and I was a little scared, but I did it and I did well, it gave me confidence. But when you go somewhere, when you travel outside the country and people embrace you, ⁓ Did you feel different? it make you? absolutely. My musical travels outside of the country came at a time when I had pretty much changed the type of music I was doing. We had fallen into just kind of doing some more bluesy stuff, ⁓ ⁓ R &B blues, even slide guitar, Delta, the old stuff, ⁓ Water, going way back, all that ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ so. ⁓ So one of the first, played a lot of United festivals. We played Chicago Blues Festival and ⁓ Monterey and... you did the Monterey Jazz Monterey, ⁓ yeah. Long Beach was ⁓ very popular, that festival down there, put in by the radio station. Yeah, yeah, I heard that one. And then we did, we went Robert Craze. ⁓ we did a show and it was in Canada. It's in Canada. we were there. So this started later, know, the international travel for us and stuff like that. But you still appreciate it more sometimes. When you're older, you appreciate it more. So when you go somewhere, even to a festival, the you even perform, just being around other performers ⁓ the years and you see people ⁓ you're like, ⁓ girl, what's up? Girl, what's up? What you doing? And then people remember you because when you're in the industry, and you're a musician and other parts of this. You meet people you just forget. You you forget. Oh, yeah. You forget. so people come up and they go, Phil, Phil, you remember me? We met and so on. So, Right. Rubble, you don't remember this? And so you appreciate it more. I felt like for me, I appreciated it more as I got older. Oh, no, no. Because in the moment, you just doing it. Oh, no, no. I remember being in Chicago for that blues festival. And we went from the I guess from the hotel to the and you met that midget. And no, no, I mean, we rode in the van with a midget. Yeah, no. She was short, but she was... See? Hey! That famous midget story pops guy. No, but her name was Maria Moldar. Okay, you remember her name, but she did. She made this tune, and the one tune that you guys might remember. Midnight at the Oasis. Okay, oh she did that? by Huyen Moldar. And she ended up singing more blues and like That's a popular song. Yeah, Was that considered disco? No, it was just a That was a big song. So y'all was in the car together. Yeah, we were on the same show, because she was on that festival too. Okay, okay, okay. And so, yeah, and so you, like you said, in passing, you you meet him this time. Exactly. another blues group that was Sapphire. It's three women. ⁓ And were doing blues and stuff. You meet them ⁓ here, meet them there, or you go to ⁓ Europe you run into them at a show. I mean, this happens at any level of the performance. So whenever you hear, midnight at the O.A. Do you ever drop a little tear or ⁓ something? Bonnie raid I know you love you somebody rain met Bonnie at at Yoshi's in Oakland the ⁓ original ⁓ and was there to see Well, they have these blues legends there these guys had played with Muddy Waters band and somebody else howlin wolfs band and stuff like that and ⁓ I ain't going downstairs. Name dropping. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ no, these are serious players. So my dad passed, he was a huge Bonnie Ray fan. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ all the blues and everything. And his name was Phil. ⁓ wow. Yeah, connection. But he was from Detroit. Bonnie came ⁓ in, I come downstairs from the dressing room, because we were just backstage hanging out, ⁓ and... And I noticed, I said, there's Bonnie Raitt coming in here. First thing, I go there and introduce myself and I gotta get a couple of pictures with you. So yeah, I played the fan. I still got these pictures. But she's such a genuine person. just a- She can play the guitar. Oh, and she plays, she's just such a great slide player and singer. Shout out Bonnie Raitt. Bonnie, yeah, Bonnie Raitt. there's a lot of new- You could have been my mother-in-law. Yeah. But you do run into people. And you appreciate ⁓ in that zone. You have a different connection. you it more, especially as you get older. Because when you're young, see in ⁓ the ⁓ and ⁓ 2000s, you really take a lot of pictures unless you was... you know, on the side of, you know, in the magazine or so dealing with something like in radio we did, but just generally when you run into somebody and there's so many people that have one hit wonder rap, one hit wonders that you just was like, you saw them at their top and then you see them on Facebook or Instagram and you're like, wow. Well, it's like, you know, and again, going back to, I'm just, I mean, think about Long Beach festival. remember Mavis Staples was on that. She was from the Staples Singers. I was young when the Staples Singers, they were singing gospel at the time. Before I'll take you there. Some of that was gospel a little They moved it all over there. Mavis was quite a legend, and still a legend. If you talk to Bonnie, you talk to any of these guys, they're going mention Mavis Staples. They're going to say, Mavis Staples, and this and that. It's the traveling, again, came as I'm into adulthood. The first time went to Germany, I remember playing just an acoustic guitar and my friend who got me to come over there, who used to play with us here, she had moved over there. So I went over there for a of weeks and picked up a couple of gigs and... And it's like, the people ⁓ it, I'm thinking like, I don't think I'm doing that much stuff where I'm just ⁓ acoustic guitar and singing what ⁓ doing. But noticed the first thing I noticed, the response from people, and this is experience, I'm not saying it doesn't happen here, but over there, the appreciation, it was almost like an appreciation for what you were doing, period. wasn't so much of how good you sound or how you, yeah. They just do the, ⁓ it ⁓ and I figured out why some of these blues guys and jazz guys, Dexter Gordon, saxophone player, ⁓ you know, not muddy waters, but some of these people ended up living there, you know, Europe because of that. They were accepted. know, they were singing jazz or blues or ⁓ R ⁓ it was just a whole, and it's to me, it's still like that over there. Right. It's still like that. I agree. Cause when we go to Romania, that's where my fiance is from, it's just the fact that you're, that you're giving yourself out there, that you're sharing yourself. It's an art thing. It's not just it's not just what you're doing. It's just that you're sharing it That's their kind of right. I you could exactly it could be me and then it could be you know Prince but it's just sort of like kind of the same thing, know Yeah, Prince has got the records and he's got that but we're we're just on the same show doing the same thing for the same musicians you know and yeah you and don't get me wrong. You got the people who are you know, they don't want to be around you because they're up here and they got six bodyguards and all of this stuff. But you know that's the one thing about like about the art you know as I've gotten older is like you know nobody cares about that stuff. ⁓ Berlin, I've told you the story, in Berlin we were over there and and I happened to be playing at this this this club and ⁓ comes the club? John Goodman, the actor. ⁓ And he and Matt Damon and Cate Blanchett, they were filming this movie in Germany called Monuments Men. okay, I got a chance and ⁓ invited, ⁓ actually Claudia invited him to sit down at the table. had a big table there. And so we hung out, got to know him, started talking about this ⁓ talking about that. And I told a guy, another friend of mine who was a musician who works at the studio, he said, ⁓ said, look, tell John if he just wants to hang out, you know. you know, we can get together. And we must have hung out three or four times over there. And this is the type of thing, like going back to what you said, you just, because you were there, you met the guy. 100%. And I'm still in touch with the guy. I mean, we're not chatting every day or nothing like that. the contact is But that's the thing about industry friends. Like sometimes people that don't have that, they don't realize like... Won't you just call so-and-so? And it's not like that. You don't want to abuse your relationships. You don't want to do that. And so it's a time. I mean, most of the time, and then you got to think about some of these people are thrust into these situations where they have a hit record or two, and that's it. You know what mean? As well as with blues and other, it's a working kind of thing. And so... Shout out to Bonnie Raitt again. There's more musical aspects of it. Yeah. all bands and with blues and with music than it is with just like the one hit, Wonders. Yeah, there's a... And in the rap industry and stuff. Absolutely. There's a guy over in Berlin right now, or I think he played last night, his name is Christoph... He's a... big guy, black guy, plays guitar. like that name. like that name. Kristoff. Kingfish. Kingfish. Kingfish, yeah. And he's over there. He's a And he's, you know, I'm looking at him say, man, yeah, I've been following him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been following him for long Yeah, because a friend of mine, Chris Kane, who plays guitar, another Bay Area guy. Right, right. Blues guy. just, I mean, just these guys, there's phenomenal musicians who have come out of the Bay Area. But, but... he you know some of these younger guys are carrying on that and he's one of them. He's one of them. Clark Jr. was supposed to be the kind of that he was carrying. He's still carrying but he's back he's back a little different depending on the music. He's not all blues but Chris he's got a lot of rock to him. I listen to a lot of ⁓ he's what's his ⁓ Little Kravitz of guy. Bonamassa. Yeah yeah yeah yeah stuff like that and so So so many people, so musicians came out of the Bay Area. I think just a great show ⁓ idea would to talk about those musicians that, not the Whispers, the guy who played for the Whispers. Because then you find out that, ⁓ that was... that was so-and-so on drums. ⁓ he played for the Pointer Sisters. ⁓ he played for Handcop. ⁓ know? The acts behind the Yeah, yeah. ⁓ especially local, because this is the guy who lives next door to you. You know, this the guy ⁓ who down the street, or is somebody's, ⁓ you stuff like that. And you know, yeah, we've heard about the Motown. The Funk Brothers. It's a similar thing or the, what's the other, the ones played by the Beach Boys, the Rakin' Crew. You know, that was all those guys. And you know, they played behind all of these. Now Pops, so you gave us, he gave us his top five? Almost. ⁓ So you gave us four. One more. ⁓ more. Boy, that's deep. Let's see. No female act? No, no, no, no. Let me. ⁓ I should say that. no, no. ⁓ I'll tell you what. No, I will take that fourth one because I really like and appreciate the whispers. Harmonies can see I can see now I remember going to the sportsman's club and seeing these guys doing routine I still have that picture in my mind cuz this guy and their their their harmonies were and they only This is before they got with Dick Griffey, right? This was before and before what's-his-name-gotten-producing Leon Silver's before he got ⁓ yeah, so look so you gave us the whispers Demtations, Confunction, and Toto. That's it? mean, that's So if you was on the island, so if you was on the island with Bonnie Raitt. Oh, the IZ Brothers. No, wait. Oh, the IZ Brothers. So you got six. So if you was on the island, so if you was on the island with Bonnie Raitt, you would listen to those six albums for the rest of your life. I'd be good with that. Absolutely. Alright, shout out Bolly Ray. You've got enough stuff going on there now and keep in mind you don't know who else is on those albums that you really like. That's the thing I like about what we're able to do now and a lot of podcasts and lot of people who have the interviews with the person who knows the person. because now you're starting to see Brecker Brothers, I've seen that name on a lot of stuff, or Michael McDonald, just think he's with the Doobie, but you gotta keep this all relative too because I going to see, there was a place in Santa Carl's, Santa Carl's called. don't look at the albums no more to see what's the back of them to see who played with them. Who was playing, who was doing backup where I'm done. And it's all relative to the times. Like you take a timeless group like The Temptations because they've been here from there and they're just still kicking it. You might go to a Temptations concert in 1978 and then... get a new girlfriend and go in 1988 is another temptation. So her view of the temptation is that, know, I remember doing that. this one worked at Walmart up in Red Bluff. One of the guys who works at the loading was one of the drifters. ⁓ yeah. And so every Christmas they would perform right up there. They come in in this big old Cadillac and they drive and they perform. you said, you don't know who's next door to you. Right, right. And see, that's the thing. Even guys, know you know some of the people behind some of the people and ⁓ even of the people who ascended to this level were behind somebody in the day. It made me think about a concert. I was thinking about I had written down some venues that I played back in the day and that were prominent places. Winterland, Fillmore West. Bimbels 365 San Francisco, Dragon a Go Go. Okay. Back in the day. Like I said, those places in Oakland that's showcased and such like that. I remember playing Winterland once and what have we were back in a. So you played Winterland. were back in a singing group called the, were they the Young Hearts or something like that. I think it was a Young Hearts. and weren't headliners, ⁓ were just supporting. And Gene was the headliner, Duke of Earl. And then Jackie Lee is the guy who had a couple of hits, and was one, I think he had a song called Do the Duck. Just a dance. The band didn't show up. Gene Chandler's house band didn't show up. ⁓ shoot. know, ⁓ not happy about this. But, and we were the, we ended up being the house band playing for him. And you his songs? ⁓ No, he his and half of his ⁓ read music. At the time I was playing horns so and uh we we the horn players read music but the bass player didn't read and the guitar player didn't read but I also do how to play guitar so bragging again bobsy bragging again needless to say needless to say we got through it but believe me you know it was a little awkward so not to be and I want the listeners to hear this that Like I've been in situations that changed my life in terms of just performing and got nothing or $50 or $100. Right. And I say that to say that sometimes the things that I've made a lot of money on really wasn't nothing. It was just a good deal. Right. And so situations like that, when you tell us how much you think you got paid for that. Back in the day, I have to wonder if we made I have to wonder if we made a hundred dollars each. See, see. And I don't even know. And I'm thinking I'm being, see, we need people that got paid more in memories of it. Yeah. Cause brought it. you cause this, cause it's right there. ⁓ I mean, they wouldn't have to pay me anything for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. mean, just like being, just to be there. And my, my, ⁓ my, the shows that I did like Chicago blues and all, we were with another legend blues guy. We were back in him and this guy was named Brownie McGee. Brownie McGee and Sonny Terry were harmonica duo, blue from way back. I know you throwing them names out. You throwing them names out. We're to do our homework after that. listened to Bluesville on the Sirius XM all the time. everything he's saying, I already know. Brownie Brownie came out of retirement. Brownie lived in Oakland. Brownie came out of retirement to help us. We were this. We had this band. We used to all play it in the R &B and bands. And then time goes on and somebody says, know, ought to play some blues. And okay, so we got acoustic guitars and started doing it. And we kind of grew this and it became the Elmer Lee Thomas Blues Review. Now, ⁓ Lee was a guitar player who we played together. And ⁓ his name is Maurice, but he took his mother's name, Elmer Lee. Thomas. Okay, he'd call it that. I said, okay, cool. So we're doing the blues stuff and Delta and Slide and 12 string guitar. And it was kind of happening in the 89, 90, 91. This guy Kev Mo came out. A few of the other acoustic players were. The Shepard came out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In fact, I was on his tour bus once. I never forget. in San Francisco, they were here because the guy from Holland. We gonna get a look. We gonna get a groupie story being in a tour bus. Well, well me and Claudia with it. ⁓ here you go. That's all you got. Shout out, Claudia. Shout out, Claudia and Bonnie Ray. Can't Wayne Shepherd was running. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, so it's just it's just amazing. You know, what ⁓ once you start digging in and if you you you can't the U.S. is so we put out so much to the world, music, style. Everything else whether it's jazz whether it's rap whether it's blue and all the British groups all the guys over there They were simply trying to sound like muddy waters trying to sound like how little trying to sound and then by doing that They develop their own sound Right, they was just trying to sound like many waters yard birds ⁓ ⁓ you know people think clap is the greatest the greatest thing to those. He does. He does. been ⁓ I've been on those shows where these ⁓ have been to like Bobby Bland and ⁓ and ⁓ you know, it is like, yeah. And you did. mean, and everybody's got somebody. ⁓ remember that they look up to. I remember at Yoshi's once the Hammon Organ player, Jimmy Smith. I met him down there and. we talking and. ⁓ He's he says ⁓ story short he said well, know where I got my shit from and I'm thinking You are the shit. Let me you know look at you hitting us with a jewel. No, no, no, he hit us with a jewel right now. This is ⁓ ⁓ got somebody somebody and this is this and this guy was Jimmy was at least 60 60 at 61, 62 at that time. And I'm thinking because all I'd ever heard of with the Hammond organ jazz is Jimmy Smith or Jimmy McGriff or some of these other guys. Right. But Jimmy Smith was the name. If you ask anybody, it's going to come up. Jimmy Smith and and and I said, God, he said, know where I got my stuff from. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, you are the stuff. You know, it comes from you. Wasn't Jimmy Smith just didn't he do? Buddy Guy's blues at his place in February. ⁓ no, he passed away. No, a few years back. ⁓ years, ⁓ he probably did. did, know, he did some recording ⁓ Kev Moe, Taj Mahal. ⁓ and now I'm getting my blues stuff. That's why I was thinking of blues out there last. All this stuff. It's one thing. One thing I want to go back to the Bay Area stuff early and some of the groups that we backed up at the time. and many bands like Confunction, Prunch and Solo at the time, were band groups. Groups out of Rich, you know, the Hartfield Brothers, a group, we for a band called, ⁓ group called The Crescendos, ⁓ a local vocal group out of Berkeley. I did play for, and I think we were there, probably their first band is the Natural Four. The Natural Floor. That sound like ⁓ an 80s rap group from the Bronx. Natural Floor, we had a couple of local hits in the Bay Area and then they signed with Curtis Mayfield's label and they had a tune called, and you can look this tune, one comes to mind as ⁓ could this be real? This was one of their big hits that they So you you played, you we played for everybody and not... You could play for this band or this group or play for this group or you know Now, did you get many pictures from that that generation? You know what I thought about I think about pictures from now because I remember you ain't got no pictures for us to use when we put up the podcast i'm going to have to way back i'm gonna have to dig ⁓ I remember I was thinking about this not too long ago ⁓ said man, ⁓ we were a band. We named our band the syndicate But spelled it with a c ⁓ Okay. Okay. And we, I remember one of our outfits were purple pinstripe suits with LaParte, Edwardian, Bic Le Belles. And we went in front of a bank with empty violin case, like a bunch of gangsters to take the pictures. And I'm looking for those pictures. mean, come on. And yeah, I seen a one picture with you with an Afro on some steps or something. You were standing on some steps. She had an afro and I think I think he had like a sax in his hand and a midget was leaning to lean against his leg a little bit That was that $40,000 telecaster that I got rid of. He got a guitar. Now, Pops reminiscing. Pops reminiscing right now. Like I said, we have to do this again. Now what I'll do is like, I'm going to because and again, like I said, we give you a monthly show. Going back to you know, they're just the Bay Area from 60s, 70s. When I say Bay Area, I'm talking about Marin County, San Francisco, Richmond, Vallejo, Oakland, and you know, keep in mind, now we're also about where military bases were. now I that military bases were extremely important to musicians. Right. Because we went from Travis NCO Club to Mather NCO Club to Beale Air Force Base to Oakland, Oak Knoll Naval Center, Army Base, ⁓ Alameda, there an Air Force, And so it kept the bands busy. It's I remember you saying you came up here. Totally different. Totally different. I mean, you could work just working the military bases. And you know what mean? We kept a couple of dollars in our pocket because we played Wednesday night. We got $40 in our pocket at school the next day. Right. And now they won't even give them Totally shut down. Because that's the thing. You got to have somewhere to play. got to. practice to hone your skill terms of being in front of an audience and you know working the club and working the audience and sounding as a cohesive unit as a band and you you you talk about a band and you hear you hear terms like in the pocket they're tight there if that's what it is you know when you when you get to a point such a point where can look over as a guitar player, I can look over at the bass player and we instinctively will play the same riff. You know, because it's just, and how it was. That's how it was with Project Soul. That's how it was with The Syndicate and any of other bands. Now, let me ask you a question. All three of us are musical people. ⁓ It's very much part of all three of our lives. A lot of people that aren't musical, like say like the three of us, they only listen to music from a certain generation. Maybe straight out of high school, maybe the first five years when you met your wife or your husband. All of us, seems collectively, we love different kinds of music and just music. And the question is, how do you feel about current music and do you listen to any current music within the last 10 years? Just say within the last 10 years, what do you listen to generally on the radios, whatever version of where you listen to music at? Okay. First of all, you got to look at my age and what, so what I've experienced in the changes, not only in technology, but musically changed. I'm coming out of, when I started playing the kind of the, is a dog. Rock and Roll, Jerry Lee Lewis, but now we're Chuck Berry-ish, but by the time we're playing, we're searching out James Brown, we're trying to play this stuff and all of this kind of stuff. So I've gone through that. Now, even if that harder funk is coming in, now we've got bands, self-contained bands with singers horns and earth, and type stuff. And stuff like that. So I've come come through that. Okay now keep in mind now Disco slipped in there for a couple of years. gonna just give me no answer. You ain't gonna just give me no answer. There's no short answer. Yeah, there's no short answer. have to understand the context of what's going on because because you go through all these things and now I get to the point listen I'll bring it up to the point where okay now we've got Grandmaster Flash hip hop is coming in. Now, so now we've got to deal with this because this is not from a musician's Cause they're sampling your music. It's well, it's even with disco, we had to deal with it because what happened was place, places started pulling out their stage and putting into DJs. So DJs were starting with disco. So we were like, I had an idea at one point to even say, what man, maybe we could do spin records. have for two cents and then we could play for two cents or something because we were trying to deal with it. Because it changed. Because you could play It changed up. Yeah. And it changed up a couple more times since then. OK, now we're up to hip hop and rap. This is totally game changing too, you know, I mean, in all respects of how you getting paid. You can't use my music to do this and you know, all that stuff. OK. there was certain, when that happened, certain music I did like. I did like originally, you know, Grandmaster Flash and Curtis Blow and stuff like that. It to some point, ⁓ with Run I was having a hard time comprehending what this was about. I I'm watching this dude walk across the stage back and forth with his hands folded and... Okay, I wasn't getting it. I just wasn't getting it. Okay, then that's time. You know, there are certainly things that, you I wasn't into the heavy duty, the profanity and all that kind of stuff. There were songs that I did like. Okay. And that's like in any music, as far as that goes. I try to tell that to other people in my musicians in my age who say, no, I don't like rap. I say, you got to understand. And you've had family members, sons and grandsons that play music and you might not necessarily like what they produce. And that's okay because I didn't like everything that everybody else was doing back in the day either. You know, like, I mean, there was plenty of songs. by groups that I just so currently like would you have you ever would you listen to a jz song would you listen to krs-1 song would you listen to J Cole or Mac Dre. think currently I'm probably not, just not well versed on what's out there now. Now ⁓ of the music it's just like it's not moving. It's not moving. Now I do, now ⁓ know there are groups, hip hop groups, rap groups ⁓ that I like ⁓ the, what's the guy from, the guy from, ⁓ god I can't think of his name. that just passed away? no, guy got shot in his eye. Bushwag. Oh, okay. Ghetto Boys. Ghetto Boys. What song? My Plan Tricks on I remember when that song came out and it was just something about it. like, yeah. Okay, so you will put that, so My Plan Tricks on You. But see, when you're talking to me, I may not be able to honestly come across in short answers because Even when the Beatles came out, I think I was in the eighth grade or something like that. I like the Beatles. I like what they were doing. I like a lot of the stuff, the rock groups, because a lot of times people will fall into just what they like and that's all. That's all they listen to and stuff like that. Now even to this day, I listen to, because my background is symphonic and classical because I play French horn orchestra. and I'm not- You didn't say it about six or seven instruments. wasn't playing jazz, a lot of jazz. I mean smooth jazz. Okay, but I'm not I don't think that way I like to this day what if you ask me what's my favorite one of my two favorite I should say Music it would be genre it would be fun Okay, so you like everybody and then I know you really appreciate what George Clinton because he works with all the young people Yeah, he works with he still chores. See No, the young people let me turn that around the young people had good enough sense to work with George Clinton go see we We laid the groundwork for 100 % and like I said, know, and sometimes it it but I came to appreciate hip hop and rap and how it was constructed. ⁓ And once you sit down a minute and you ⁓ get your bias because you're musician or because you're older and stuff like that, and you look at it and you say, ⁓ Jesus this... you know, you listen to what's going on. I mean, some of it's quite simple. It's a straight beat, rap on top of it, that's okay. But then when you get into some of the other stuff where you got 15, 16 different samples in there and everything is right on cue. And it's right, I mean, that's like putting a puzzle together. Yeah. With one eye. That's production. do that. So I got to a point to appreciate that, to understand that. So ⁓ will never hear me in a conversation say, well, I hate, you know, like some of my other colleagues. Most definitely. Yeah. will say, ⁓ no, I just don't like that. And there may be a song I don't like ⁓ this style I don't like. But the other hand, You know, said yeah. I'm not against it. So that's your answer. Well, and I'm not against it. Just So that's your answer. Wait a minute. Just like... You ain't gonna give me no answer. No, what's... like Quincy Jones, what if he would have been that way? as being a producer. What if he was there, oh man, I ain't doing this. This guy comes out of Count Basie, of these big bands. My last question. Count Basie and all this stuff, and he's playing with Michael Jackson, doing Michael Jackson stuff. So my last question. Yeah. Katty got a question, my last question. How do you feel about the art form? that Africans born into America had created and to see it evolve and it's beautiful. And then of course the early generations you hear about Pat Boone taking Little Richard songs and all this other stuff. But when white acts create their own version of what blues was R &B soul is and they make it really, really good. And you being a musician. How did you feel about it in acts like this, right? This is the Jets. This was my generation. They Polynesian. I love the Jets. I love the Jets. And you know what? I used to love the one that sung. was two of them that used to sing. I used to love them little girls. The youngest girl. And then acts like this right here. Like acts like even in the 80s, Hall and Oates. Oh, absolutely. Like how did you feel about people like, guess you wonder. You know, all those kind of people. How did you feel about Bobby Carpenter? and all those acts simply I mean you could go on and on and on. But it goes back to that same question, that same answer of the people in Britain. ⁓ were to be, everybody was emulating rock and roll, trying to sound like Sam Cooke, trying to sound Who's your favorite of that genre that's done it well? White soul or whatever. I don't even know if we can call it a call it soul White chocolate White chocolate We might use that White chocolate Probably probably who What comes to mind and from a musician's, purely a musician's standpoint is probably going to be A WB Yeah, they came out you knew that was a black band ⁓ you thought you just know a schoolboy crush and what if they want you to if you interview them? You're gonna hear the same thing I'm telling you we were trying to sound like and we Tower power will say the same thing all them guys will say the same thing now What is tower power is that a mixed group? Is that a mix is it is it all black? No, no, no, no the only only black person knows to black for the keyboard player now and Oh no, the singer, think the new singer is a young white guy. So Tower Power is when they started. But they have been mixed. have been right. Even for me, and that genres have changed, have crossed so much, I remember the Doobie Brothers. Oh yeah. And I remember listening to songs and someone told me that Doobie mean a joint at the time. Right. And I was like, ooh, and I saw him. And I saw a black guy in the group, but the soulful guy. was white. You know what mean? I think he's a drummer or something, the guy, that black guy that was in it. I don't know what. Oh, the drummer. Yeah. He was a, Oh no, wait a minute. But it's a black guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. then when he was a bass player. Okay. And then you listen to name. You listen to the Eagles and all these groups, Total included in all those groups. You go, man, man. And not to say they were trying to emulate that culture, but It was so much crossing of musical genres and those. like I said, like I said, the story of Jimmy Smith, everybody. has got some they're trying to yeah you know and don't get me wrong they're trying to get their own sound but they're trying to get there they're they've got to sound like pretty much somebody else whether they're admitted or not because we learn we hear and that's how we learn right how is jeff precaro with todo playing them beats like you he's in james brown's band because he been listening to what's his name with james brown's band you know how does you know we're gonna leave it with you caddy what you gotta say like grandma's cass hop didn't invent anything, it reinvented everything. is good way putting it. That is excellent. It did. it goes around. Now you wonder where it's going since we've had years of development. And me and Katty have talked about this on the podcast, that this is the first time hip hop hasn't been in the top. 25 or 50 on Billboard. Right. And for a long time, for a long time. so every generation will say, oh, boy, that music ain't good or this music ain't quality. But everything changes and evolves. And it just makes you wonder. because even how you produce a song is different now. Because they don't want to hear no long intro no more. Remember, it used to be songs on the radio. The radio stations dictated how the song could be checked about. So now you want hits. You want clicks. than three minutes or two. And even designing of a song, period, from a writer's standpoint, ⁓ like, you had a verse. It was verse one, verse two. You might go to another part, but. And that's that's kind of it and it's not even that no more these these these kinds of discussions You know certain people will appreciate them Also, I was thinking what about what you just said is that as time goes on come on people get older You know, they're you know, I used to I didn't like it when people in my age group, when they sort of morphed into listening to smooth jazz. Kenny G. And I said, I can't handle this. I'm still like to this day, I still, let me hear Fight the Power. Let me hear, you know. Voice to Atlantis, let me be slaved. Yeah, in between the sheets, yeah. Even Sheik, mean, even Sheik, even though she came through, they came through the disco era and survived it and became- Quality albums. And then Nigel, what's his name? The guitar player, he comes up producing everybody from Madonna to Niles Rodgers, producing Madonna, David Bowie. He did Let's Dance. did, you know, Diana Ross. mean, upside down, all that. All that stuff. There's a PBS, the one they do where they have the shows. The NPR? Yeah, the NPR. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He goes through all these songs that he's done for everybody. And I said, man, this guy. ⁓ he was, I think he was lucky. He was in the right place at the right time. I mean, he's just a driving, good ⁓ guitar player. He's, ever heard him solo? Have you ever heard him play? Stretch out and No, never even when he's with newer people and I he did some with Daft Punk. Yeah, and it was still that sound Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still that much and he but he's just he is a guitar to me He's a top-notch rhythm guitar player and that's what it was and that's what made that music work a lot of music David boy Diana Ross like we said. but I was saying as people age too, I mean you, I have to ask you questions because you were at a different age at a different time when music, different something was going on. Okay, you know, where are you with what Like you just said the other day, you couldn't listen to what was the Tupac song the same anymore because you're not in that same kind of... Just maybe their mindset. No, I felt like, say I'm living in suburbia and I'm in my backyard and I'm working on my tiny house and I'm at my neighbors, ⁓ nobody look like me. And one my favorite albums is Death Certificate by Ice Cube. And he talks Black Koreans, he talks, it was a time in Southern Cal, you know, and he says things and I love that album. I love the whole completeness of it. But I feel like out of kind of respect, because when I'm in my backyard, this is my halo, this is me, right? This is my compound. And at the same time, I feel like out of respect, in my car it's fine, because everybody has to hear it, even though it's big and it's far. I don't know if I want, I don't want to disrespect nobody by playing certain songs or, and so sometimes I will just put the clean versions of whatever I'm listening to depending on my kids, cause I have older kids and younger kids. So I just feel like, but if I put on Johnny guitar Watson's classic and then, you know, Ta-ta baby, but then if I put on ain't that a bitch? We used to laugh as a kid like they playing that get away how they get away with that Yeah, and so I just feel like certain stuff if it's too too much cussing and Then I feel like me as I get older pops I'm so enmeshed in music and different kinds I'm in a mood to listen to something when I'm going to drop my kids off, I'm in the mood when I want to be hype, I'm in the mood, you know what mean? It's different versions of that. And so, so I love Scarface, I love all that, but you know, I might be sitting there and I'm listening to, I shed so many tears I'm into it and my daughter be like, dad, I ⁓ 12 cuss words so far. You know what I mean? And you got to respond to it, you know? You know what saying? Because it's legit. She's saying, yeah, you Or one of my sons told me too. Yeah, dad, your generation, they were kind of angry. Like everything is real angry. Like our generation ain't angry. We just want to perk. We just want to kick it. See now that that anger type thing, it went back to also the 70s. Went all out during that protest era and you know, late 60s and stuff like that, you know, and that, you know, ⁓ don't, they don't have that. They don't have that We're somewhere else now and I'm not quite sure where we are with the music. I think it's still evolving it will always I it will I don't know if we gonna get a new I think it's easier to be successful without what people went through I remember I remember I was with I don't know if you remember this guy Charles Brown Charles and then decide to Charles Brown he was a blues guy and he wrote this song Merry Christmas, baby. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's the way why I was on the show. We did a show with him once And, ⁓ go ahead. No, you can keep going. We're recording. he had a, and he asked me once, he said, you he says, ⁓ is Brownie getting his royalties? I said wow cuz they didn't cats, you know Charles Leonard chess all the companies ripping these guys off putting their names on the records and putting their kids name on the record all that stuff and they just did that and but it was Bonnie because that song is that song sells every every year It's just like it's an area here. It's like Mariah Carey song every year. So, you know checks coming out three months later, you know, ⁓ but Brownie You know, and these record companies would, because we spent a lot of time with him and got into his business and stuff. And he said, you know, a lot of these people, they'd say, ⁓ yeah, we've been trying to reach Brownie for a couple of years. We've had this check. Yeah, right. You know, this kind of stuff. But that's the way it was. Shout out, Brownie. That's just the way it still living? No, he passed away in... the 90s, ⁓ 90s, did. But ⁓ we a lot. And that was an experience to work with him because I didn't know, I knew he was a blues guy and I'd see his name on the posters all the to Winterland and Fillmore and on the show with this guy and this guy. I said, wow. And then once I got into it, started digging into his music, I said, ⁓ my God. I mean, even his brother played and had hit records back in But just think, like, you could eat, you know? Yeah. Even if your song, even if you got a couple hundred thousand dollars every year, I mean, people are not making that kind of money. the other hand, it is easier to make money because there's so many people who don't rely at all on... on radio. mean, can you even get played on radio other than college radio? Well, you got to pay for it. It's just payola is just different now. It's still. Yeah. And it's just and see years ago, different entities owned radio stations. So now it's there's so many. It's like one or two people that own most of them now. It's not a lot of mom and pops. And so that's all controlled, you know, everything in this apps. And it's so many different levels. yeah, you know, and you know, ⁓ so the music, my overall, if you were to ask me what is your favorite music, I would honestly say it would have to be funk. We gonna leave it on That I will go back to regardless of I'm listening to today. ⁓ I'm saying some point, parliaments gonna come up. No, so we gonna leave it on funk. You got ⁓ top six. Artist. ⁓ you got that. You got we got todo ⁓ yeah, tower power power temptation temptation. Isley brothers. Isley brothers Was it probably? Whispers. Whispers. Whispers. And then next time we interview Pop, Papa Hall, he going to tell us about what happened in that limo. with old girl from that song. He gonna tell us about that. He gonna tell us about that picture that he had that afro and that fit when he, when he, when they went to- That wasn't the silk suit, was it? Yeah. gonna tell us about that. I can find those. Yeah. He gonna fight us about that. ⁓ So you still playing at all? Cause we, right now we just giving shout outs. So you playing, or you open the plan or will you do bar misfits? you do private have not been, been actively playing, but actively, I actively play. I practice all the time. ⁓ I'm ⁓ still I've never stopped any of that. Okay. That's the music. But I haven't, but yeah, I mean, and many of us reach out to us. ⁓ If want pops to play, it's all good. Just hit us up, we gonna let you know all the information. Pop's gonna find us, he gonna find us an old picture. And we gonna put it up when we put this up, y'all. Appreciate y'all. I will. For listening to us, appreciate you for coming. Thanks for having me, it was good. One love, one love.