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Transcript

How Derma Made is Revolutionizing Dermatology with Dr. Amy Brodsky · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Patriot Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host Ekta and today I have a wonderful guest with me that is going to tell us a lot about dermatology but also her wonderful brand.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be an interesting conversation because as many of you know, we discuss dermatology and the options from a prescription standpoint a lot here.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um I know the conversation comes up quite a bit, but we never really get to dive in.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really excited about that piece of this conversation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Dr.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Amy Brodsky, who is a board certified dermatologist, and she also is the co-founder of DermaMate.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome, Dr.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Brodsky.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to chat with you to learn from you today.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be here.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd love to learn more about you.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: What made you go into dermatology?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you could just getting into medical school, I kind of just applied on a bet.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I had no interest in going, and I was a biomedical engineer as my background.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I just kind of had the classes, and my boyfriend at the time was trying to get in.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of like just to piss him off, I decided I would try to get in and I got in.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then while I was doing my rotations and everything, I thought I was gonna do either OB Gyne or gastroenterology.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then by that time, I was dating somebody else.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I went with my boyfriend to his dermatology office, and his dermatologist is like, What do you want to be when you grow up?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't know.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, You should do derm.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I kind of piqued my interest in derm.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started doing dermatology, you know, rotations.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been an oil painter, you know, in my past life, I still do it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, dermatology was sort of the extension of the canvas and the paintbrush.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very much color-oriented and visual, it's a visual specialty.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I like it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty cool.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I think Durham is such an interesting field for anyone exploring, you know, that stage of residency and match and stuff.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a really cool field to get your hands into a lot of different aspects of medicine, I feel like.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, skin is your largest organ of your body.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's probably the number one residency, so it's hard to match in it, but um it affords you a nice lifestyle, you nothing's too urgent, usually.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you get to see a lot of things, no two days are the same.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's really cool.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that you know, for me, it's very interesting what you're doing with derma made, you know, and I'd love to learn more about it actually, because obviously just to educate our listeners, but also for me, it's interesting because I think I've said it a lot before on the show where I feel like a lot of the options available when it comes to prescriptions in dermatology specifically, are a bit dated.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're dated, you know, dated and expensive.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, if you are coming in to get a prescription medication, we're basically salespeople for pharmaceutical companies by writing over$3.5 billion worth of prescriptions a year.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we're doing.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm tired of writing prescriptions for these pharmaceutical companies.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're giving us nothing back.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Half the time, they're really expensive prescriptions.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be lucky if the patient actually gets them and actually uses them.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So DermaMe was sort of a labor of love.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I knew what formulas I wanted, and high ahead, my background was in engineering.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also had had a fellowship in cosmosceuticals.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I basically said, you know, what products could I use together to create the same efficacy as prescription medications without having to write the prescription.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So every time I see a patient, they will get, you know, a topical regimen that's a dermaid protocol.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then occasionally I'll supplement it with an oral medication, such as an antibiotic or an anti-androgen like sperno lactone.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And patients do great.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: They love it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And at least they're walking out with the products that I know they're using.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very familiar with what they're actually using on their skin as opposed to patients leaving and some crazy statistic that like 85% of patients that leave a dermatology office go to their local Fallgreens or CVS and buy something similar to what the doctor had suggested.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's really interesting.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's crazy how expensive these prescriptions really are.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, even something like, I mean, I remember being a teenager and going to my germ.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And back then, you know, they put me on antibiotics.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first thing.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, some topical stuff.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Accutane was on there.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I even remember having this conversation at the time with the Durham where it was like, well, you know, if your insurance doesn't cover this, or if it's too expensive, like, you know, we can discuss and all this.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's almost like like a caveat to everything, you know, it's like it's frustrating.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's frustrating for you, it's frustrating for us.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and truthfully, I didn't want to have to deal with it anymore.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So DermaMate's been really, really nice in the sense that I know my patients will get better and they're not breaking the bank when they buy everything.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I want to learn.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you were crafting DermaMate, like what were some of your like kind of hallmarks, you know, in terms of like, you know, what you wanted to put out here and what you thought would be truly efficacious, you know, for your patients who wanted other options.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew that I needed to have a shampoo/slash face wash that could treat what we will call separate dermatitis, which is a fancy name for dandruff.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody was writing prescriptions for ketoconazole shampoo, which is an antifungal.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: But then I said, well, what if we mix salicylic acid and sulfur together?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll get a shampoo that will work as well, if not better, than these prescriptions.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was sort of my inspirational first product.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it works great for anything fungal on the body, on the scalp, and then also for acne on the face.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then we launched into, I knew that I needed a retinol that was as aggressive as retin A.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So retin A is the hallmark of dermatology for acne and wrinkles, and it's um consists of retinoic acid.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: The problem with retinoic acid is that it can be very irritating.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So patients don't actually use it the way they're supposed to be using it.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we did is we took retinol, which is a derivative of retinoic acid, and we mixed it with Bacuchi oil, which is a plant-based molecule.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you mix those two together, you get the same efficacy as retinoic acid without any of the irritation.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's much more tolerable, and you'll get your patients using it every single day.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was a win, too.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I was excited about that formulation.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: If we were going to have a retinol, we needed something to fade brown spots.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that is sort of the hardest one to make because the gold standard for fading brown spots is hydroquinone.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: However, the FDAA has taken hydroquinone off the shelves, and a prescription hydroquinone can be expensive and very irritating.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of like blowback in prescribing that.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we came up with a formulation that has tranzemic acid, hexiresortinol, cogic acid, and all of those together create this lightening agent.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you mix it with the retinol, you really can do wonders on people who have pigment disorders.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Those were my like staple products.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's so interesting.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've asked this question before, and I really want to get your opinion on this.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is that because what you described, I mean, the cocktail of ingredients you described is very fascinating to me that we have these options readily available and like not enough people, I feel like are taking advantage of it, you know, because they don't know that.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know that this can actually treat my hyperpigmentation.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that doctors aren't, you know, sitting down and explaining this to people because there's not enough education out there.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, when you were to compare these kind of ingredients to something, say prescription strands, what would you say is like the average that from what you've seen, like the difference in cost?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we compare ourselves to like a skin pseuticals, and one of their lightening agents is around 200 bucks, and malefate is about 50.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So big difference there.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, we also compared like our vitamin C to skin pseuticals, uh C ferulic, and that product is about$200 too, and ours is$50.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, we're doing great with our products, and their price point is really the price point that I think patients prefer.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's doable for everybody.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really huge, you know.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so what about like acne and stuff, you know, because a lot of people go for acne, you know.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh across the board, you know, different ages.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people tuning in, I know also chime in and they email us asking about things like adult acne.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are your thoughts around that, the treatment of acne, you know, and how that relates to what you've created?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty much, you know, an expert in figuring out what type of acne does this patient have.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And very often the acne will be um hormonal.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I will still put them on an acne regimen that's topical, but I'll also at the same time give them an oral medication to stop that hormonal breakout.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So the topical regimen, depending on what kind of skin they have, I usually start with the evening routine and it's usually that medicated cleanser because sal acid and sulfur is good for your skin.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then we'll do either a hyaluron acid and then the retinol or just straight retinol.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then I always add from that retinol a lotion that has niacinamide because niacinamide is an antioxidant that's great for acne, it's great for rosacea and it helps minimize any irritation.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then the morning is always going to have your sunscreen.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you that the best sunscreen for acne is going to be the ones that have zinc oxide in it, because zinc is great for acne.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, those by definition, if they're all zinc and they've got a little bit of titanium or iron oxide, those are called mineral sunscreens.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So mineral sunscreens are much better for skin diseases than chemical sunscreens.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, I didn't know that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's really fascinating.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, why don't we see more of that?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like in skincare, do you think?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, zinc, I don't really see zinc as an ingredient, you know?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll tell you why.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually not what we call cosmetically elegant.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And what that means is if you remember back in the olden days, like your lifeguard is putting like zinc oxide on their nose, on their cheeks, and it's just like thick diaper paste, right?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's taken us a better part of like two decades to figure out how we could take zinc and micronize it small enough so that it's not thick and goopy and paste-like.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do we make it so that it's not white?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because not everybody's skin is white.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of patients that are Amy and Hispanic, African American.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so, how do we get a sunscreen that is still mineral, but that doesn't look like it's sitting on your face all day?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And truthfully, that is a technically very, very difficult task.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it sounds stupid, like, oh, come on, that can't be that difficult, but it really is.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of companies will take zinc and then they'll add in their chemical sunscreens so that they're they can get like a higher SPF on the bottle, which is basically all marketing.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then the chemical sunscreens will make it rub in nicer.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then this way they kind of can say, Oh, we're mineral and chemical and we're broad spectrum.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of gets around some of that marketing.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's wild to me because you know I always kind of cringe when I see people like rub it into their face like they're rubbing in like a moisturizer or serum, and it's like, guys, this is a shield.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: You want to apply it like it's a shield.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Even versus the sprays, because those are just being sprayed into the wind, basically.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it's kind of wild because I think that you know, patient education is where I always get baffled with skin health because even though we have so many people, I feel like now more than ever online.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I know a lot of derms are online trying to educate a lot of influencers.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like this information keeps getting like what you just educated me on.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had no idea, you know, and I know no one's talking about this stuff.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what it drives me crazy because people have real questions that they're not getting answered.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working on that.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually working with L'Oreal and trying to create a residency training program for cosmoceuticals because, truth be told, you know, your dermatologist should be and still is your number one influencer, but like less than a half a percent of dermatologists are actually educating on cosmosceuticals.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason is they don't know it.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason they don't know it is because they didn't learn it in their residency.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And until you go out to a grocery store and literally pick up every product and look at the back of the labels and say, okay, this one has this one and this has this.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't understand ingredients, how are you ever going to teach it?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this fundamental problem of lack of education, and it starts at the top with dermatologists.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And some of our influencers are just literally social media gurus who know nothing about skin, but yet they're kind of good on social media.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So people follow them.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know there's a lot of people like that.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, no hate to the cosmetic chemists out there, but you guys don't have background physiology.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sorry, but like physiology and immunology and all of the courses we take as doctors, like, they just don't have that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so many people out there, cosmetic chemists, influencers, you name it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just like the experts apparently on skin health, but they've never taken a medical course in their life.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I don't know.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're they're actually experts in Instagram and TikTok.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, I didn't go to school for that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's not my number one job, then it's sometimes you get lost in the shuffle because you didn't make your Instagram account.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Back when I went to med school and residency, that that wasn't even a thing.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Who had time for that?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's the thing.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I even say the doctors that are the busiest are the ones that are not on social media.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: People need to understand, like, when you want expert opinions, you need to define who experts really are.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a very easy thing to do if you look at credentials and you look at what they've studied.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you look at a person who has an MD behind their name, they've studied everything.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little side topic, I know, but it's important for consumers to understand this.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think the general population looks at credentials at all, which is pretty sad because you like work your whole life to get into you know the best college, the best medical school, the best residency.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got these people who really don't care where you went and who you are, and in fact, are going mostly to non-medical doctors, they're they're going to like the physician assistant, you know.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then they cause problems that we have to fix.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's right.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a never-ending battle.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, but you know, I I really love what you're doing because obviously it speaks to me from the stance of someone who also has a medical background because we need real options, you know, when it comes to like, you know, anything prescription strength, I think across the board in medicine right now, we're struggling, you know, especially as a Western society, you know, and also in terms of something that is so popular on in, you know, mainstream and pop culture, which is skin right now.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everyone's obsessed with their skin, having options in the$25 to$55 range, that's a game changer.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's absolutely huge.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's made by somebody who knows what they're doing.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's made by individuals who have the credentials.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for anyone listening out there, if you guys are really actually struggling and you need an option that's going to work for you, please, you know, opt in for brands like DermaMade for options that have been studied.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're, they have actual thought behind them, you know, scientific rigor behind them, you know, that really matters at the end of the day.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you guys are also available in a lot of practices, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're in, oh gosh, I think over 400 doctor's offices now and hoping to expand.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we really pride ourselves on being, you know, doctor dispensed, physician-branded.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because we do think it's really important that people have the education behind the skincare before they just purchase the skincare.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're available in the places where people go for help.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the that's the number one thing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I was gonna ask you, was that difficult?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, getting it to the point where now you're kind of in that, you know, that big pharma place where you're trying to convince people like, listen, carry this new product.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're definitely a brand now.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: When I started this, it was really only to take a care of a need for my patients because I had been already prescribing like a prescription type cosmosceutical, and I knew that I needed for legal purposes to get rid of that prescription, you know, status.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so we tried it out on my patients first, and the results were amazing after six weeks.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Patients were coming in saying, We love your products.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I really truly had very low hopes for everything.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then once we started seeing these results, I said, Hey, let's, you know, let's adopt this for the entire practice.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we did.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then we just started selling it in our office.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then my partner in Dermamate was like, Well, what if we sell it to other dermatologists and see where it takes us?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's where we're at now.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the more derms we reach and the more, you know, med spas or plastics, the better.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I love that.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I really encourage, I mean, we have a lot of you know practitioners that tune in.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you guys are not carrying derma made, please should be.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you should be able to do that.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and uh and it really is a perfect product line for patient for doctors who aren't dermatologists but want to, you know, dabble in it because I would say, you know, unless you're in a major city or a major suburb, it's sometimes it's really hard to find a dermatologist.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so family practitioners are acting as dermatologists.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is um an easy product line for them.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have a lot of SKUs, and each product is ordered in a certain way, such that we get great results.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I've developed protocols for different skin diseases, for example, acne, rosacea, subderm, those type of things.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, really, if you're somebody that's not that knowledgeable in skin, but you are in that situation where you're treating a lot of skin, this would be, you know, a perfect option.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to ask you though, just like your opinion, what do you think that the hurdle is for people, especially practitioners, to like kind of ditch the big pharma stuff, you know, that's not working.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: It never it doesn't work, you know.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: We all know that there's a lot of samples that we get of the doctor, and it never works.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And between that and then opting for something like you know, dermaid, which has been proven to work, what do you think that hurdle is for that?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you because we've been doing this a really long time.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: The hurdle is time and money.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of doctors are like, Well, I don't have time to talk about skincare.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can educate, you know, one of your assistants, and they can talk about skincare if you don't, or you can do, you know, the handoff.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or what I do is I'll sometimes say, like, let's get a second office visit, because you can bill for that office visit.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's got something.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the second office visit, we're going to dedicate just to talking about skin.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I do is when a patient walks in, I give them a form to fill out that basically says, Do you want your practitioner to educate you on a skincare regimen?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if they write no, then I'm a little less apt to do it.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: If they write yes, then I bookmark that in my brain.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, at the end of my exam, I'm gonna make sure I find time to discuss it or have them come back to discuss it because this way, you know, the patients are asking for it.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we as clinicians really are afraid of selling anything.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, we didn't go to med school to be salespeople, but like I said, it's The beginning, we're salespeople for big pharma when we write prescriptions, right?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and those never go smoothly, never ever.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's always a situation of prior authorization.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Patient doesn't get it for like three or four weeks.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I find derma me to be just a very easy solution.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it's worth it.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of education that goes into training an office on how to sell skincare, but I can guarantee you it'll be beneficial because with everything that's happening with insurance and the cuts that Medicare's always giving these doctors, you know, we have to find some way of making up for that.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so skincare has been a very good solution.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that should fall on the shoulders of a good doctor to try to give all the options available that you know work to your patients.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I think that's ethics at the end of the day, you know, because if you know something works, if you know it's gonna help them, taking a little bit of extra time and educating your patients, I mean, which we're supposed to do anyways, you know, with everything, it's not going to make or break your day.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's a big deal, you know, to take five minutes and offer real options.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy though, sometimes getting, you know, new doctors or old or old doctors to do new tricks.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, I've never done this before.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to sell product.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but like, what are you gonna do?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Your patient's coming in for their skin, and you're not gonna teach them what to put on it.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's not a good doctor.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Also, from the stance of preventative care, like there's no logic in that for me.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I think that we live in a time now where preventative care has finally kind of you know flourished in terms of in the medical community, and we are all talking about it across disciplines, you know, and yeah, to not take that time and educate, I mean, it just doesn't make any sense.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you bring up a good point.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Even with kids, the anticipatory guidelines that pediatricians have to go through when these patients come in has everything on the list except for like, do you wear sunscreen?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, or do you teach your kids how to use sunscreen?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, if we could just even do that, we're making some strides.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point, actually.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I recently I started the Safe Seal for Teens, and our whole committee, we had this discussion, actually, what you just said about the pediatric dilemma.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's not just a problem of like there aren't any options for kids, it's also an idea of the education for physicians because no one understands that you have to make it clear, you know what I mean?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the standard for younger skin types, you know, like you have to kind of educate about that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, there's not a lot of pediatricians or pediatric dermatologists or anyone that really knows much about this field.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really hard to get people involved, you know.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if you knew this, but I started a program called Sun Hero.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, what it is is it's a method where dermatologists andor pediatricians attend schools and teach curriculum for free about sun safety.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when let's say I go to a local school and I'm gonna teach it to like 300 children, then L'Oreal will send the doctor 300 what we call sun hero kits.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the kits are these backpacks that have sunscreen, sunglasses, UV bracelets, stickers, and then it has a place to put your business card.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then the doctor also receives suggested curriculum guide.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so for like 30 to 45 minutes, I'll go in, I'll teach kids about sun safety.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: They go home with their little swag bag and then they tell their parents this is the dermatologist that came to see us today at school.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've touched over 160,000 kids since we've started this.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: We need more of that.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that I think is more important than anything else, which is again the education component, you know, and really getting the word out in a meaningful way, you know, kids don't know these things until you talk to them, and parents don't either, you know.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I mean, if you think about it, you're sending your kid off at like eight in the morning and they're going outside to recess at noon or one.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so where's the sunscreen for that?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so prior to the Sunero program, I lobbied in Congress for a bill called Sun UK, which allows teachers to put sunscreen on children because prior to that it was like considered not okay because you were actually touching kids.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so we passed that bill in every single state in the US.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's crazy.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that's very fascinating.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you for your work.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I really, really applaud you for all that you're doing, and you're really making an impact in such a meaningful way, and that that really, you know, it's gonna carry on for many, many years.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I yeah, I really can't.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely rewarding, that's for sure.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds amazing.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope everyone listening, you know, you guys I hope you can relate to this conversation.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Really, that's my hope, you know.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and if you do, I would love to hear from you and what you guys think because I think this is a topic in regards to just the care that's available, you know, in dermatology, it's a really big topic, and consumers have to get involved at the end of the day.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to speak up, you have to raise your concerns and and voice what you think is missing, you know, in this area so that doctors can learn, brands can learn, everybody can work together.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it has to happen.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So please chime in, let us know.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And Dr.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Borsky, thank you so much.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's been so great to chat with you.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was so great to be on here.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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