Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Finding your niche within Paraplanning

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Finding your niche within Paraplanning · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: And this week's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Michelle Wilson Stimson from ePowerPlanner Connect.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes into great detail about how she got into the financial planning profession, starting out as a door knocker for an American financial advice business.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: She takes us on a career journey, which sees us sees her moving into power planning administrative back office functions and eventually running her own business.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Michelle does a fantastic job today on this episode of breaking down what she thinks is the correct structure for a career framework in power planning.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: And rest assured that there are more positions than you actually think.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's a real eye-opener.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And she also talks about how well-being is intertwined into her career framework to ensure that those that go on that career journey aren't put off by the fact that they haven't passed any qualifications or their strength actually lies more in research and um building relationships.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: She covers absolutely everything.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's a fantastic episode.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: She shares incredibly deeply.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to really enjoy this one.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Michelle, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: How are you today?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm great, thank you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's all right, no problem at all.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining me.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um you run ePowerplan Connect.
• 1:33
  unknown: That's great.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I do indeed.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and um that's an outsourced power planning company.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're the CEO and you've been running that for quite some time.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we'll get into that a little bit later on then in the podcast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: But you have had an extensive career within the financial planning profession.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a quite a long and varied career to say the least.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got lots of experience.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think so.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we've seen the good, we've seen the bad, and we've seen the ugly.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: We thought that we could make it better and improve it by setting up our own businesses, and then you go through a bit of a baptism of fire of learning in that area as well.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we see it from different perspectives, and that's great.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: What I also love about bringing people like you on, Michelle, is that where the role of administrators, power planners, operations, what I would call the back office supportive functions within financial planning is now growing.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was always traditionally looked at as being like an introvert's role.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I don't want to be client-facing, so I want to go into a you know a back office type function, like a support, I'm a support position.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that I think needs to change.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that sitting in those positions are some incredibly entrepreneurial individuals, incredibly intelligent individuals, and those that can add some serious value.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: I always believe that in those positions as well are some highly qualified people that with the right training and with the right development could also bridge the gap into financial advice and actually reduce the advice gap if firms had a personal development plan in place to help the people that wanted to do it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: These are the types of things.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: The um the the sort of the career progression, if you like, as for for a power planner, um, is you know, people do start off with being becoming an administrator, like you say.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm not an introvert, although I was an advisor to start with, and we'll we'll come on to that.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so but so I'm not introverted.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know many people in my business that are not introverted, and they love working in the administration and the power planning field.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not that it's not, it used to be a stepping stone to becoming an advisor, but it's not that anymore.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it's got its own profession, it's got its own um uh journey of uh recruitment and training, and you know, you can earn some really good money as a top-end power planner now as well.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And some power planners I know earn more than advisors.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's I think it was always a money thing, you know, oh, I want to be an advisor because I'm gonna earn a lot of money.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, now those points, those chartered popplers, they're earning good money too.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's all it's all about actually understanding what it is you like to do.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not many people like sitting down in front of people.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And just because you might you might not be introverted, but not really want to be in that kind of environment that you are talking to people and having to give advice and everything, because you might like to get into the nitty-gritty of um, you know, writing up a report, etc.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all it all goes down to the person, but yeah, absolutely, not everyone is introverted.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Most are, but not everyone.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you've kind of got those um, and I get that because let's say let's look at the advisor position, in which you've actually done in the past, haven't you?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: You've been an advisor before.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have, yes.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: We kind of associate, oh, to be an advisor, you must be an extrovert because um, an extrovert only, for example, right?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: But the pressures that come with financial advice, it's not so much the fact that you are happy to sit down and talk to people, that you're a good communicator, you can build rapport really well, um, build relationships really, really, really well, right?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's that part where how you cope with the pressure of not seeing clients or not having clients in front of you, where there has to be a skill set where you have to go out and find business, for example.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because as we know, when you're in any kind of, and I'm going to call a financial advisor a sales role, okay?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's an outbound business development sales aspect, whether it's selling your services or getting somebody to sit down in front of you to see the value in the products or the services that you offer, right?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: When we're in that financial advice position, or when people are in that financial advice position, that there is a pressure external to just being an extrovert, right?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: You don't just because just because you're an extrovert doesn't mean you're going to develop business, right?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the same in respect to power planners.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: You can be an extrovert and sit in a power planner in a supportive role because there is a huge amount of element of development within that position that requires you to be somebody that can stand up confidently and make change happen and not sit there and introvertly think about it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's my is my thinking.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: So the two are interchangeable.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a it's a it's a recognition of the skill set that you have and how transferable those skills are position to position.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the fact that you said there, you know, that there is a new development, there is a new area to develop into.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: There are high earners in there.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've spoken to um power planners that are on minimum, you know, not minimum, sorry, basics of around 60 to 70k when they're charters and their experience.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: When I say experience, say let's say five years or something like that.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: But they're also aligned to the business and the performance of the business and they're securing uh bonuses.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: I did a survey actually at Christmas and I asked who's on the naughty or nice list when it comes to bonuses within firms within uh the financial planning profession.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: And you can imagine all these companies were saying, we're on the good list because we give bonuses to our support staff.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it was something like 65% were were giving bonuses aligned to back office performance.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: First off, let me just kind of just delve into that.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think about that?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think firms should be um adding like a bonus, not commission, but a bonus to the support staff, whether it be operations, administration, power planet?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that's a really good incentive to get people to come and work?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, it really is.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, they're the people that are your glue of the business, they're the people that are getting all of that paperwork done, they're getting the implementation sorted out, you know, they're writing the plans, they're they're quite often in the client meetings, you know, and dealing with clients.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: The advisor does their bit, but then it's it's everything else behind it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's absolutely the admin team and the power planners that are doing that.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I really think that's a great idea, and everyone should have a form of bonus structure in their pay.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because particularly in an advisory firm, you know, it's not it's a little bit different for outsourced power planners because we don't have that kind of income that advisors have, you know, it's not based on what we all call sales, because let's face it, it kind of is, isn't it?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's not based so much on that, but in an in an advisor's um office, I think it's a great incentive to say if we, you know, we bring in this amount of money, we're gonna give a bonus to XYZ, the administrators will get this, the paraplanners will get that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then it also makes those admin and paraplanners become more efficient and want to drive the business forward, not just do the work.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So then they've got that little bit of entrepreneurial spirit in them and a bit more drive to say, right, I'm gonna earn a bonus issue, I'm gonna do this sort of thing.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to have a great Christmas, I want to, I want a big bonus, so I'm I'm gonna smash it.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, those power planners will drive those advisors because the advisors won't be able to sit back because the power planners are going, come on, you've got new business to write here, or you know, you've got this meeting and I've booked you in for that meeting.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and then they're kind of got somebody else that's pushing them out the door to get in front of people as well.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's absolutely brilliant.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love that explanation and I love the examples that you gave also about how a power planner who is aligned to the performance of the business, one of the things there it does as a business owner, you want everybody aligned to the growth of your business, right?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: You want you want as a business owner to turn over a profit and you want everybody chasing the same goal.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a great example of how you can do that within a financial planning profession for a practice, sorry, for the back office function staff.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I I really like that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: I also like the way that the examples you gave there around how the power planner can g up the advisor to get into those meetings and see those people and get behind it.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, do you think that happens in financial planning firms?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think sometimes the power planning operational back office do actually drive um, I don't know, productivity perhaps?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or do you think it's always driven by the advisor?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's gonna be some where people don't have that drive in them anyways, and they just want to get the work done.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there's gonna be a few where it doesn't happen.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you've got a self-starting, autonomous working, driven power planner, they're gonna they're gonna want to do that anyway because they'll have that work coming in for themselves because you know, power planners don't want to sit twilling their thumbs anyway, do they?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know, uh whilst it might be great to get paid a lot of money and sit and do nothing all day, people like to feel that um purpose.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: They don't like having something come to them when they haven't kind of grown, you know, they haven't done something to be rewarded for that.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there are some people that don't care, but the majority of people.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So having um those people doing that, I think I think they are they are out there.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, whether they're doing it actively or might be a little bit worried about doing it actively, I don't know.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've done more digging.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: I've yeah, well, this is the idea of it.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think we are, you know, digging around this and exploring how people feel within specific roles is something that I do a lot of anyway.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I talk to a lot of people, and you can imagine through my business in recruitment, you hear the woes, you hear what people don't like, you hear what people want to change.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we often push back and sort of challenge them on whether or not that's an that's a you problem or if that's a business problem.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um but one of the biggest problems that I feel that power planners and administrators have is one of a feeling that they're not looked at as being a vital part of the business, or as important to the production of business as, say, somebody who's generating new business opportunities, which is equally important, right?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: They feel a bit disconnected from that and feel undervalued, underappreciated and overworked.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that doesn't help, does it, with a power planner shortage?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, it doesn't.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so you've got all these firms that are, you know, we all we want a power planner, we want an administrator, we want this, that, and the other.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but there isn't a great deal of them out there.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the ones that are good and the ones that are employed, you're starting to now see firms recognizing the value of them because they're rare as rockin' horse shit to find.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So they're starting to wrap their arms a little bit more around them, therefore starting to see some change in there.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, cool, great.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: You started off in the financial planning profession then working in financial advice, didn't you?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I did, yes, for my sins.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um a little bit about me.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So my background, I when I was young, I went to college and I did visual communication and photography.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very creative.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a very creative streak in me.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a professional photographer.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, anyway, I've been doing that for years and years, alongside being an advisor and parapandamic, what have you.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I did that to start with, and then finished that and thought, I think I want to work in business and finance.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I did another college course in business and finance, and from there went to university, did business management, human resource management.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I started to go down the business route more than the creative side.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my first job was with a company called Edward Jones, who you may or may not have heard of.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um big American company.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: They set up in the UK and recruited.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was one of the second recruits, I think, second um tranches of recruits.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that was very much this is your this is your FPC one, but it wasn't a day.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Get that, you've got three weeks to study it and pass it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't pass it, you're gonna get fired.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: When you got to that point, this is FPC two.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if you you study, you've got three weeks to pass that.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they did a bit of classroom stuff as well.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't just go home and read the book.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you don't pass that, you're gonna get fired.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it went on like that.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we did the SFA exam as well, which is securities and futures, because um, I was also a stock broker there, so they were a little bit different, and they they did a full independent financial advisory range, um, you know, in the market sort of thing, but they also did share dealing.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we were coming up with stock portfolios as well as everything else that goes alongside it.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit different.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so that's where I started, but that was um a shock to the system, let's say, because it was very cold crawley.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I had no clients, it was a new business, and you know, come over from America, there was nothing else here, no one had heard of Edward Jones, and their um sales training was to take us to America for two weeks and make us knock on people's doors and sell stocks and shares to their feet to these Americans.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got some English person knocking on their door saying, Oh, Vodafone shares are great today.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh yeah, it was eye-opening.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we then come back and um did a lot of training and door knocking in England as well, in our local areas.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And to be fair, I it I I did quite well at that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was one of the highest earners to start off with um as well.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it comes back to drive there because you get a little salary for a few months to get you through your exams and to get you started, but then they stop your salary completely.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you know I've got to build up a client bank before X day, otherwise, I'm not gonna have any money.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I did that for a couple of years.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where did I go then?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I then went to work for a firm in Cardiff as an investment manager.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and again, that was a big group of IFAs, and they needed someone to do the share dealing part.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, that was my background at the time.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I moved on to working for Abbey National, as it was, uh, which is now Santander, obviously, as an um IFA there.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there I moved on to Norwich and Peterborough.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I've moved is because I've moved houses.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, something you'll learn about me is that I like to move a lot.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my husband, bless him, I made him move house 10 times literally in the last eight years.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow! And everyone, everyone jokes and uh about it, but yeah, so I did like to move a lot.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I've moved from sort of Hereford to Gloucester to Worcester to Cardiff, and then we've settled in Peterborough, and I now live in Stamford.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we moved over to Peterborough, and that's when I started to work for the Norwich and Peterborough as a uh IFA there.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: That was my my journey as an advisor.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So there are all the places I work, that happened over the course of about eight, nine years.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was there that I then had my last daughter, who's now nearly 18.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I decided I don't want to be an advisor anymore, I want to focus on the other part of it, the developing the reporting, the compliance, the administration.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna do that forever for a lot of firms.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I did that is because when I worked for Edward Jones, but at the very beginning, it was just me.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to find clients, I was trying to write business, and I just didn't have time then to do all of my own administration and my own power planning, and I was doing it, and I used to think, God, if only there was a company that could just like take all this off me and just let me sit in front of clients and see my clients, that would be great.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I decided to create.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And there are points firms out there, and not so much nowadays, but back when I was um starting up my business, they were just powerplanning firms.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: So they just did report writing.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted it to be different.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted ePowerplan to be different.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I wanted to say, no, you don't need staff, you can we'll do everything and you can pull that resource because at the time I needed someone, I needed skilled people, um, qualified people, but I couldn't afford them because I was still building my own business myself.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I just needed something I could pick up and put down and pick up and put down and all develop on, you know, start off with a part-time person and grow them into a full-time person.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I just thought that was this like a pool of like a pool of investments, like a pool of um people or a pool of something that lots of people could use and lots of advisors could use, and that that that would work.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so that's that's what started my career in power planning.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a really great comprehensive overview.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And there are a couple of things within there I just want to delve into.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: One is that you went to university, you weren't actually a very creative person, quite inquisitive, I assume.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're always interested in creating creativity for me, like regardless of what environment that you're in, you're always going to find a way to build something, right?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Whether that's physically with your hands, whether that's taking a photo and editing it, or whether it's um building a team, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or a solution to a problem.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: So creativity was always at the core of who you are intrinsically and your purpose as a person.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: You transferred that across into business and finance.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I find that confusing at that point, but at the same time I don't, because uh I was like that.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: I went into I fell into financial services.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: But interestingly, you and I share something in common as well, and something in common with a lot of people that I know that run their own businesses, and that's when you've knocked on somebody's door to sell your services.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: There are numerous people, lots and lots of people that I know that have done that.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: I did that for two years.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I built a team self-employed, knocking on people's doors, selling charities and telecoms in the round.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's nearly as hard as financial advice.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was horrific.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was all commission-based, and it was like it was like an American company.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you come back and you'd have to ring the bell if you'd done a deal, or you ding the gong if you got 10.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and you were it was like a pyramid selling type model.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was young, I left school, I didn't go on for further education.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I wasn't a naturally academic individual.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: I struggled with that.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: So the only thing I could do really was push into something where I felt like I could control, and I knew that I was a good communicator, and I knew that I was competitive, and I knew that I I wanted to succeed.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: So for some to me, it was like I had to do it, I had to cut my teeth on it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: But one thing I've learned, like I said, is that the people who've done that job, they either realise 100% they don't have the characteristics, uh, the drive, uh, the will to do something like that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then the ones who push through that pain take something away from it, and they've gone on to run their own businesses.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of my friends have.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of them have also gone to become financial advisors.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I find that really, really interesting.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Did the Americans respond well to you as an English woman?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely did.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they they were really good actually.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the response is it it was in Ohio that we went to, the response to the people that were there was far better than the response we used to have back in the UK.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So why do you think I had that doors slammed in my face before I'd even said anything at some times?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And why do you think that is?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think the you I don't think the British people are very open to that sales type person knocking on their door.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: They feel their space is being invaded, they're private, you know, is why are you knocking on my door?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: How dare you?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas the American um ethos is wow, you've taken the time to knock on my door and tell me this.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: That they just think a little bit differently.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we'd get invited in for cookies and you know drinks, and in the in it, you know, in England they just don't do that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, why are you here?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're invading my space, get off my doorstep.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'd I'm not interested in anything you've got to sell to me, even if I need it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: So when you there was something you you said, and you were like, when you said you started out as a financial advisor, you kind of sighed a little bit and gave the impression that, oh, for my sins type thing, I started out as a financial advisor.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Elaborate on that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Why why is that?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a good question.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you've picked up on my on my subconscious there, haven't you?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose because when I now run an outsource.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: PowerPalming business, and I see so many different advisors doing so many different things, and they all think they're doing it the right way, and they all think they're doing it the best way.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll never find another advisor that does it better than me attitude.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I suppose I maybe I maybe it's me thinking, was I like that back then?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I was, but maybe I was.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit like I know what advisors are like, I know how people perceive them in the administration and power planning type businesses.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I'm this is not all advisors, so please don't hate me advisors, Alex.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but um, yeah, I think they're they're a certain type of person, they're quite egotistical at times, but that's good because they need to be that sort of person to do well in their businesses.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's why I sighed.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think sometimes when we, you know, I could say the same for 15 years of running a recruitment business into the recruitment space, dealing with business owners and often dealing with business owners that are financial advisors can often be quite trying and quite taxing.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the expectation upon their shoulders of what others do for them is almost like a sense of grandiose self-importance that everything else doesn't matter.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they don't tend to listen to uh feedback incredibly well.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, for example, during like a recruitment process, you know, they don't want to be coached around the candidate you're putting them in front of because they feel that they well, they I know.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like we don't know because we know the market and we know how best to position yourself to give the right impactful interview to take that person on up against what we understand that person actually wants, but also what the market is out there looking like.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: So this is how really you should position it because you're gonna like this person.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to be able to position an offer that matches, say, perhaps their intrinsic values, right?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that a lot where I found that frustrating a lot with advisors.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: And not all of them, not all of them.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: There were a lot of forward-thinking companies.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: The the bigger the firm got, the less responsibility was on the shoulders of the business owner.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the more I started to understand that the business owners are wearing multiple hats, you know, more often than not, someone who's starting out in financial planning or sold the dream.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Go and set, and like as you were, self-employed, go and set up your own business and you're gonna make a shitload of money.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Before you realize what you don't realize is that, well, I've got to wear the hat of an administrator, I've got to wear the hat of a power planner, I've also got to wear the hat of an operations manager, I've got to be a marketeer, I've got to be a social media manager now, you know, I've got to create some video, create some content, I've also got to go out and network.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And be all before you know it, it's very overwhelming.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the ego element of it is almost a barrier.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a kind of defensive mechanism.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: And as soon as I started talking to them about the problems that they were incurring and the stress that was having on them, the pride went down.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say this, when I say them, and do you know what the image I have in my head straight away is of a man more so when I speak to women, it's a very different conversation, it's very open, it's very uh reflective and it's very open to uh improvement.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think women are more susceptible to that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that might be putting everyone in one basket, but I think I think because most women are a little bit more empathic about um themselves and other people, that I think they can come across as less um not less less driven, but less that they don't have that ego so much as a maybe a male advisor.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think I've seen that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And but that's throughout, and you know, and and the last thing I want to do is is throw anybody into any boxes, right?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a some you know, I'm not some sort of bloody psychologist or something like that.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's merely an observation.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's merely an observation of what I've seen and my relationships I've had with people.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Throughout the years, though, one thing I definitely understand is the deeper the the deeper you understand them and their pain points, the easier it becomes to add value to them.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you solve a problem for them, it's your best friend.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you can recognise in them the pain point and you solve that pain point, you're let into this in in in a little bit further into that world.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the big pain points for for firms is being able to get out and see clients, but also getting having enough time to be able to do all the work that is left behind when you're out there winning new business and things like your suitability reports and the research involved, especially for an IFA, Gabrielle reports, all the things that need to be done to be able to say, tick box, I've delivered the right advice.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: And the pressure obviously upon that individual becomes far greater, doesn't it?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because if they give the wrong advice, if they recommend the wrong thing, if they don't do the correct research, they're liable, aren't they, for that's right advice that's actually given.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's another reason why as FCA rules and regulations and change and become and consistently change and become stricter and stricter and stricter, there is a need, a growing need for good operations, compliance, power planners, and administrators.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um before you ended up deciding that you were going to set your own business up, you obviously had that entrepreneurial streak.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: We we we learned that really from your very early days, career, uh, college, university, all that kind of path.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Before you set that up though, you were working in a capacity as an IFA, right?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Was that employed or was that self-employed?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was self-employed at the beginning.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, actually.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think it was an employed role, but it dropped to self-employed after the salary part um dropped off.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we got paid a salary for 12 months to set our businesses up.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then after that, all the other roles were very much employed.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you were in an advice position and you were in an advice position for quite some time.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I suspect you probably thought this is going to be my path in life, this is where I'm gonna go, and this is what I'm gonna do.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then you made the decision that it wasn't.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder how many people are sitting in financial advice positions right now because they've been sold, say, the dream of an academy from some of your major ones, like your SJPs or whatever, where they've been a bit like Edward Jones, right?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: You've been fashion, you've been fashion through an academy, you've gone into the role of financial advisor and are thinking, like, uh, you know, I'm gonna grit my teeth and I'm gonna go through this.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I wonder how many people are sitting there going, like, I just don't enjoy the relationship development side or the going out and winning the business side as much as I enjoy the research or the proposal presentation side, uh, the presenting presenting the analytics and all of that kind of stuff, using the tools, creating the content, that kind of stuff.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder how many are sitting in there.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you was that what happened to you?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Did you just reflect upon it all of a sudden and thought, well, what was the because because if you I'd love to hear what you went through because somebody else is 100% sitting in a role thinking, I don't want to do this, you know, I want to be a power planner, but I don't like the idea of dropping down to become a power planner when actually it's not a drop-down, it's just a sidestep into something that suits you.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it really isn't a drop-down.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what stops a lot of people from doing exactly that.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're so they got it in their mind and they've they think by things they see that actually if I become a paraplanner from being an advisor, that it's as bad, you know, I'm backing down on myself, I'm I'm not driving myself, I'm letting myself down.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, it's completely not true because there's so many different roles and different types of paraplanners.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's paraplanners that focus on financial abuse only.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those people are skilled in that one area that you know, you to be to if you if you're gonna become a paraplanner, it's a really good idea to niche in something because there's quite a few paraplanners now.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And whilst not everyone is a great paraplanner that's in the market at the moment, if you've got that niche, then people are gonna come to you from everywhere and ask you for support and you know, it's particularly technical support on that area.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I often I think as we, you know, for me, when I was an advisor, I was always going to people's houses.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, particularly when I was um on the self-employed thing, I would go to people's houses at whatever time they wanted to see me.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would make myself available because I was building my own business and I needed the income and the revenue.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I would um go to their houses at night, at weekends, and I didn't really like the idea of I had two children at home anyway already, a little bit older than my youngest.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't want my youngest daughter, because obviously I was I had her in 2005.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't want her to suffer from me not being at home.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to be at home for her when she'd come home from school or nursery.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be there at the beginning of her life and make sure that she had a good start.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I decided that I didn't want to go out to people's houses anymore and I didn't want to do that.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose I could, I could have changed the role and stayed as an advisor, but said, no, I'm only gonna do hours between nine and five or nine and three.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time, that wasn't really available to me.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I just said, I'm I wanted this pool of people to help me in my business.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's the bit I kind of enjoy anyway, because whilst I'm not shy and I'm and I can be confident in front of people, the salesy type part of it, and again, I could do it, I could do it standing on my head, but I just didn't really enjoy it.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I preferred, like you say, to sit and and have a plan and to work through something and to write my report up.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved compliance.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought, this, yeah, I just want to change.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be at home, I want to be able to be working at my computer.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if my daughter needs me, I can just stop and see to her.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was why I wanted that difference.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're in a meeting, you can't just stop and say, hold on a minute, just got to see to my two-year-old who's uh beating up the cat, sort of thing.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that sort of stuff.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've got a daughter that beats up my cat, so I definitely understand how it can relate to that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: With um there was something there that you said, and I think you know, it's fine to talk about this as well.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think the role of a power planner, the reason why there are so many women in within power planner roles, right?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Is because it does lend itself to more sociable hours that can be controlled.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, we're in families now where there is nobody staying at home to look after the children unless you're financially comfortable to do that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Most people usually strive towards getting some house or whatever that is a need for both parties to be uh earning good money and bringing money in or paying the bills, etc.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's never usually upon one person's shoulders unless you're a very lucky household, right?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're both you know, you're both out there doing it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I do think that the role of power planner and administrator for women that want to balance work, life, family commitments is also a really good option, not just for women, but also for men as well.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh I run a business and I have that flexibility.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: I can pick my daughter up, take her to school, um, you know, I can be there for her.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a real value add to me.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think with power planning within a firm that also offers flexible working, what a great role for that period of your life.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: But what it also offers is an amazing uh chance to learn and deepen your knowledge.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: And where people sometimes feel like I don't want to waste my time in an administration or power planning position, I want to go straight to becoming an advisor.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very much now in the mindset of challenging that and saying it's not a waste of time whatsoever.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And as much as I do promote through paid advertisements for St.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place and MNG, etc., a route like that is really, really good, right?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's really good for the right person.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: But there has to be choice in somebody's career development.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm actually bringing an academy out soon.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: And the focus of it is gonna be around well-being and ensuring that at the very, very beginning of your career journey that you have an honest appraisal of exactly what a career looks like within financial planning and what each stage looks like to not create this idea of get rich quick through becoming an advisor, because nobody gets rich quick becoming an advisor.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's as simple as that, right?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: It would suit maybe somebody that route of speedly going towards advice if you were at a position in life where financially you can afford it and that you have a really strong network perhaps to leverage off of, um, or you're partnering with somebody that could help you with client leads, etc.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it suits some people that way.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to make sure that people see administration power planning as a really great route to go down to learn, to give you flexibility, to educate you, and uh to also determine whether or not that path is actually the right path for you.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: And the if the worst, you know what the worst thing is about going down that route, even if you're not if you really do want to become an advisor, right?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is that you gain such super deeper knowledge, right, don't you?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: You your ability to um research and articulate that research that you found when you step across into an advice role, especially if you're with a firm that allows you as a power planner to make um to make available to you client meetings.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: So as a power planner, being able to sit next to an advisor, listen to the advisor do his relationship building stuff and all of that kind of stuff, but for you to come in and present the f the research to that individual, I think adds real value.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Not to mention that the power planner then fully understands the role of a power planner, what they do.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: So when they do transition and step across into that advice role, if that's a choice that they want to make, then they'll know directly how to um build a relationship with a power planner to deliver the best service for the client at the end of it.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, I one of the struggles I see uh in the power planning role though, um, and have done, and it's changing, but not every firm is doing it.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I think to do with the fact that there's a lot of small to medium enterprises within the financial planning space and they just don't have the education or the time and energy to create things like career frameworks.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: I know that a career framework is a huge motivator to your staff.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: But what I see within financial planning is all these financial planning companies saying, I want a power planner and they're just chucking in all anything they want into that job advert or anything that they want within that requirement.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know about you, but I think the role of a power planner should be broken down into different role responsibilities.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: A to do that means there's a realistic expectation upon the shoulders of the new person or the experienced person coming in, and they can clearly define the things that they want to do and what they don't want to do, or the things they're not experienced to do, or the things that they want to learn, for example.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it gives them a progressive mindset and keeps them in the company happy.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: And also each individual role can also be um can have a salary banding associated to it that's relevant to the level of experience.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you're keeping them motivated and keen to progress through education and learning, but also through monetary gain as well, right?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I think um I'm always keen to hear somebody who's experienced in going through that process and also who's built a power planner outsource company.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: What what do you think firms because listen, let's not beat around the bush.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: You want all those firms to not hire power planners, you want them to use your services.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: You're you know and we're gonna, you know, and I want them to do that as well.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm behind you 110% because I can I get it, it's your business, and we'll get into that another time, you know.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: We can definitely delve into that, no problem at all.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I know your business, and it's outstanding.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: So if any you know planners are listening to it, they should be contacting you and using your services.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: But let's help a few people first, eh?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: Let's give a bit of uh an insight in what they can do to help themselves, right?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think can be done around the structure of um building out like an employee profile within the financial planning profession?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: What is the route to becoming, say, top-level chartered power planner, the top-level power planner?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think it looks like?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll tell you what we do at ePowerplan.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: We have a very clear um defined process and we based it around a standard type of advisor process, sales process.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we we look at the very beginning, um, what do we need to do at the very beginning?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, sending off LOAs and all of those bits and pieces, all the way through to um booking appointments, then uh uh getting the uh pack ready for a meeting, and and it goes through all the way through from beginning to the very end, which is where the business gets signed up, and obviously there's a parapanda bit in between.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we did, we decided that um we would um come up with our roles.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got um administrator and we've got a technical administrator, and then it goes to we've also got client servicing administrator, and then you have a technical researcher and a client servicing researcher, client servicing paraplanner, power planner, technical power planner, sorry, did I miss no, I did say researcher, technical power planner, and then that goes up to specify uh type of journey.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm trying to say, um like a route.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you might say, okay, I want to be an investment only, or I want a niche with financial abuse, or on those kind of things.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then we then create different plans from that.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: But the very beginning, we created this journey and we'd created a development plan that had everything in.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you could say, you could sit down with one of your administrators and tick off what they are skilled and at in the and can do competently and score it on one to five, bearing in mind how they kind of score.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then along with that, at each point, so they might get to let's say um the admin part.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that'd be the basic admin, the LOA kind of stuff, the data harvesting and all that, and a few more bits and pieces.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we once we tick them off, we would ask them if they wanted to do an exam to back up that knowledge, FA1, FA2, FA2 normally, because it's the pensions administrating exam.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's what then they'll sit an exam.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if they pass it, great.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't, whilst I I am all for people having an exams and I think they do confirm people's knowledge, some people just don't know, or not don't know, they don't, they don't perform well in an exam environment.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: They lose, they lose their mind, they lose their ability to remember anything because they're they're just stressed out too much.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we have this development plan that has everything listed that you can tick off.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: So even if they don't pass their exam, they can still continue to progress to the next level.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this big development plan we've done has levels in.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: So as you work your way through, you're ticking off what you can do, and that will eventually bring you all the way through to a what we call a technical analyst, actually, a technical analyst.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that includes everything.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: So for now, you are completely, you know, you know everything about basic.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: When I say basic, I don't I mean not talking about going into huge inheritance tax planning and and that sort of stuff.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you know how to basically write a report, um, pension transfer, that sort of stuff, and get it out.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you've if you've done our development plan, you've probably got exams along the way as well at each point.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've got RO one and RO two, we'll make we we change the job title to technical researcher.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: So now you understand all of these things that are in your plan, but you've also got your exam to state that.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: But again, we will still put someone to a technical researcher, even if they don't pass the exam, because we have our own internal testing as well.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there, we like go up to the technical, um, other technical parts, so the paraplanner role, the technical analyst.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when you get to technical analyst, that means you've either completed your development plan or you've got R01 to R06.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's in it again, they run alongside each other.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: But we don't like to tell people you know, if you haven't got, you don't can't get that exam, don't worry about it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to stop people's progression just because of a piece of paper when they could be bloody good paraplanners.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I'm and I'm all for that.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then once you get to that point, it's really down to the person to really think about what their career looks like.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to work in, do you want to train people?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to manage people?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you hate managing people, do you want to train people?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe not.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: But do you have a specialism?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Are you really interested in investments?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: So let's sit down with you now and create a new plan.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see what you can do, extra exams, for example, or extra CPD, or going and sitting with ex-advisor or this person in the business and learning a bit more about that.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: So then we start to move up and put people into niches and into like categories, if you like.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And some people just say, no, I just want to keep going, I want to get, I want to choose a couple of different exams and want to get to chartered, not really bothered what they are.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: I might do this one, I might do that one.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: But other people say, No, I really want to have an investment focus or I really want to have a vulnerability and financial abuse specialism because I think that's going to be needed more.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and that's how we develop and alongside all of that on the way, pay rises happen.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if you get to this point, you get a pay rise.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you pass that exam, you get a pay rise.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing, you know, you either pass the exam or you we prove that you can do this, and we'll give you a pay rise.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we have got um banding for all of our all of the levels in our business as well.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we know where we can put people based on.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: what level they've got to or what exam they've passed.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how we do it.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: It works quite well for us.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um it gives people a sense of purpose.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: It gives them a sense of drive.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and they and they know that whilst exam having an exam and passing that exam is good and does prove that they've got that knowledge, that actually we're not going to penalize them if they just they just don't like doing exams, which lots of people don't.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: First off, just want to congratulate you on a articulating an incredibly progressive career development plan within the administration to power planning space.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: The way you broke that down and the way you look at every intricate detail and align things like salaries and incentives, plus taking into consideration somebody's levels of strength, whether it's academic or research or their passion for the job, et cetera, you don't just look at one thing and that's it.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't sound like it's a black and white development plan for you.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: But also it lends your as a business it it it lends itself to be able to fill gaps.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: So for example, if you lost somebody who was one of the technical you could go out and hire somebody at that level or you could promote from within if somebody's already on that that sort of pathway and they're ready to step into that that type of role.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you can see now why financial planning firms and you um struggle A to find the right person for their business that fits the needs that they require.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because you've got a whole team that would that support financial planning firms.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: A financial planning firm of a specific size might only hire one administrator and call them a power planner just for the job title perspective or whatever, right?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Without the relevant experience for the level of work that's required.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you can now see why a power planner employed within a firm that doesn't have a structure in place or an acknowledgement of actually what's required to be a power planner and how to motivate develop that individual why someone might be sitting in their shit in a role in a company and feeling undervalued.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that was an amazing breakdown.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: I've never had anybody articulate it so clearly as you have and so well thought out.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: We had a call a couple of weeks back, didn't we?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked about our own businesses and we talked about wellbeing didn't we?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: And how important that well being is because well I was actually kind of cussing a little bit because I felt that I do so much for my business when it comes to wellbeing and I think sometimes there is such a pressure upon business owners to always constantly be like fixing employees' problems.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe as employees we have a duty of care to create an environment that enthuses individuals is open enough for people to be able to talk about say problems and offer solutions to help that person because we care deeply about our employees we care deeply about their wellbeing and we want to ensure that we aren't adding pressure to them or or adding anything that's going to be detrimental to their mental health for example we all go through problems in life don't we?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: And there are things that we can solve individually and there are things that our environment causes and and for me it's like I'm seeing a lot of wellbeing stuff targeted at firms.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to do more you've got to do more and I feel like you and me are two individuals that do a lot and we do a lot for our staff and we do it because A we want to keep them but also I think we we we want to help people I personal I've had personal experience of poor mental health and I know how difficult it can be when you're working in a company and it's not talked about for example what do you do then Michelle because I think having the amazing career development plan which you absolutely do incentivising people to progress getting behind them in respect of their learning styles what other things do you do that help the wellbeing of your staff that again others can learn from you to implement in their businesses well we um like like we said to me and you the other day I do quite a bit with wellbeing um we have um an employee assistance program that runs all the time that the people have got the counsel you know they can use that service and they can have free counselling um and and all that sort of stuff and you know your back support and and everything and we we've been brought that into the business because we feel that they need an external place to call up and say I'm struggling and what have you and that's completely free.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: But in addition to that we use a company called Govox for um a biweekly email that gets sent out and it sends our team like a little questionnaire and they've got some questions in there about how they're feeling how they're they're finding their their work this week are they getting enough sleep are they getting enough rest are they surrounded by the right people in their business you know in their day to day and in their life in general but it merges everything together.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what I my my view on on people and work and society is that we have a job and we and we go to and we go to work every day and we do our job and we go home and we and we're mum or dad or or wife or husband and everything.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: And lots of people separate those two things out very very you know this is that this is this sort of thing.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now in my view that life to be to have a balanced and happy life you need to confine it all together because it's not a work-life balance for me it's a work-life circle so you've got a ball of everything inside it and you've just got to juggle your ball around to make sure that everything's good.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you spend 90 hours in the office one week the following week you've got to make up a little bit and spend less time in the office and more time with family.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we bought GoVox in because and and we created our own questions because I wanted to know are my team happy at work but are they happy at home?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you say your environment and and um your social surroundings have a big impact on people's wellbeing and someone could be really unhappy at home and come to work and put on a fake smile and I would like to know if I could help.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yes a GoVox so we they've got these questions and it's and it's got things like are you finding you're sleeping well are you surrounded by the right people in your life and then the answers that they put it's not very much it's not yes and no and and you know that varies down the middle down the sort down the line sort of thing it's the answers can be something like um yes I've got the right people in my life but I could do better on that or no I'm finding this a little bit difficult and I need to work on that.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: So whilst the answers are there to give me an idea of how they're feeling they're worded in a way to make the employee think no that's not right and I need to do something about that.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or no my work's not been very good this week and I need to think about that.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and what we do is we have a little section in there that they can put little notes in.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: So what I hope is that they use that and they say I thought about this and actually my work's been a bit rubbish this week because of X, Y, and Z.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I've thought about it and actually I think I could do this, this and this all the business could help with this, this and this.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: And actually that'll make me feel better.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's my aim from this GoVox questionnaire that we send out every two weeks and it's completely and you know no one can see anybody else's responses only comes to me and um and then I deal with it from there sort of thing.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing is it gives us a little red flag.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone answers something in a certain way the system will red flag me so I can have a conversation or I'll ask the line manager to have a conversation with that person.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah that works really well for us.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I like like we say you've got to focus on wellbeing you've got to have facilities in place you know and we're looking at doing the wellbeing standard with Michelle Hoskin as well at the moment about embedding that but you've got to you've got to give them the tools to be able to fix themselves because I too have suffered with bad mental health a few years ago gone through the menopause and it made me all do lally completely threw everything out went into a bit of a depression but you've got to pull yourself out of it and if you've got the tools to do it and the people around you and um the want and drive to do that then you can and you really can pull yourself out of it.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I brought GoVox in because I want people to to to read those responses which are saying I need help but I need to do something about that.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Help me help me do it not you've got to help me do it you've got to do this for me you've got to do that for me.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well no it's it starts with you and we're there to support change has to come from within and change only comes from accepting that we're screwed that we're not happy that we need to change um that's why I like this go box because it's like it's powerful similar to this charity that I'm part of and on the trustee of called Talk Club which is how and you start every session with how are you today out of 10.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a question and it's a number and it makes you sit back and think, well how am I how honestly how am I out of 10?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: And if someone says I'm a six then to me a six is hey well five's five's like half you know that's you're entering into the low scale so I naturally ask a question well why?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think these um weekly regular check-ins however you do it whether you see a counsellor or whether you see a group or whether you phone your friend up or whether you have a mentor whether you use a a service such as that which promotes um questioning how you are and questioning how you feel but then leads you down a pathway of exploring it intrinsically is perfect.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Does it also then offer you an interesting what you said about the menopause there we had somebody on the podcast actually last week talking about menopause and her experience at the menopause I was in a um St James's Place um talk club and there were a lot of men in there because it was a men's talk club and I did a promo I did a a talk there on men's um International Men's Day there is a day for that by the way and I talked about male suicide and I also then hosted three um talk clubs for men.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: And believe it or not and I love and and it really I it was a real eye opener for me because I'm also my wife's also going through with PMDD so I had to do a lot of research and understanding of into into it.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it it I I there were men within there and and 40% were feeling low and felt they had a lack of control around the menopause for their wives, right?
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it was affecting them.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was affecting them in in in as much as it they understood that it was affecting their wives.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: And for them it wasn't like a oh god she's going through a change and all of that.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: They were deeply affected by the change that was happening and it was changing their lives as well.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had to like work with my wife around it because she's like put me through to podcasts to listen to to understand PMDD, what it is, the hormonal change, what to expect and because I could easily go into like it's my fault, you know, for instance like I'm you know she's upset so what have I done to upset her type thing.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: And when I further went into further education around it and understood it more like it's super interesting to understand that it and menopause and like PMDD what a thing to have to go through right what a thing to have to go through and I think the conversation around it in the workplace not just aimed at women but for awareness for anybody within the workplace of what what it does to somebody and especially at a point in life as well where a lot of those um women that are going through it might well be in senior positions might well be running their own businesses because it gets you at later life it doesn't get you at the beginning for some it obviously can happen.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: But there needs to be a bit of awareness and understanding about it and it needs to be talked about and I think eight hours a day nine hours a day in a workplace some people might lose their shit you know and we need to understand and be understanding accepting of it and having these conversations and educating um you know my dad was just always going for you had no terrible view and you grow up as a boy in a boy's house full of boys you in turn you you take on that viewpoint you know you learn from your father most of the time or whatever male role model you have.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um it was interesting you said that there and it's tough isn't it and these types of uh tools allow you to understand what's going on and also it allows the individual to articulate how they feel in a secure manner so then it's presented to you.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: And also the individual there within that business can never really ever turn around and say you never asked and that's the most important thing for me is that I always want to create that open door policy.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you want counseling we give you it it's free it's here here's a benefits package as you progress on through my business as well we increase things like life cover we increase things like healthcare for to reward you because obviously the pressures that come along as well but anybody at any stage within the journey within my business I can give them eight counseling sessions because the biggest area to barrier to entry in sorting yourself out, regardless of where the help comes from and whose responsibility it is right the toughest barrier to entry when somebody is thinking about helping themselves is cost.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know they don't want to spend 40 pounds on a counselling session because they don't feel yet that that's and A, it's a big chunk of their money and they're in a new job and they're anxious and they're stressed or whatever or whatever stage they're at, they don't want to do that.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I think um like you implementing things like that to support the wellbeing and the health and the wellness of your staff only creates advocacy and you're doing the right thing, right?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully yeah absolutely um I want to finish on something and it's something that you came up with then in the whole conversation that I I I really want to just explore a little bit further.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the niche niching as a power planner.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um never come across that uh I'll be honest.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't realise a power planner's niched so for me that's a really interesting subject.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just A just give us a couple of areas that you've seen power planners niching in specifically and do you think niching is the future of power planning to build upon say your personal brand and establish yourself as a bit of a leader out there so a bit of a marketing personal brand tool as well yeah I do um like there's there's so many people that are training to be power planners now or there's so many people that are setting up their own businesses and be as you know a freelance power planner that I think an advisor looks at you they just we just all look the same you know we've had this for years oh you're just a power planner well no ePower planner's not just a power planner we do everything we do everything we do admin we do power planning we do reg data returns we do marketing we do design we do compliance we we do everything you don't need to have staff with us absolutely everything you know we've got subscription services to run uh client servicing throughout the whole year that you know and it it covers everything yeah so when you're looking when you're an advisor and you're looking at the market you just think ah yeah they're just a they're a parapanner but if you start to niche and again it doesn't mean only do this area it just means be be more technical in this a certain niche say for example financial abuse so if you are if you have got your ducks in a row about financial abuse you've done extensive um training education around financial abuse and you know you are the financial abuse go-to paraplanner in the industry any advisor that needs help with financial abuse isn't going to go to any paraplannar they are going to seek out someone who knows what they're talking about.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: Same with um I'm trying to think of another example now but even in like investments some we've all got an idea of investments we all know we've got all got knowledge and if you've got something a little bit weird you can research it yes but if you've got that real deep um knowledge and understanding of multiple investments and to a different level you know some para planners will understand beta alpha of shares and everything but other power planners will understand a stock and or an investment fund but not so much what this means or the beta means or the alpha means so much I can write a report on it but I don't really understand that that well but there are going to be people that absolutely understand that it's in their mind that's what they love they love that part of their role and again if you're advertising as being the technical go-to for that area and the advisor's looking and they go oh I need that they're gonna come to that power planner for that for that area so I think is it the future of power planning quite possibly I think there's going to be firms that do it do it all you know we're a firm that's focusing on client servicing now we're client servicing and customer support really going down that route for us um and there's other firms that have just you know they're they're focusing on other things as well but I think because there's so many different freelancers coming up now I think to stand out in the market you you need that little bit of a niche you need something that you are technically skilled better than other people in and then really go for it.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: Really establishing yourself as that key person of influence I created the financial plan of life to be a key person of influence within the career space right and then it's going to move into branding as well videography, podcasting all of that.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be that key person of influence the person people think of that's why I want to set up a financial advisor academy I want to be known as the person who's bringing new people in and innovating in that space.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's exactly the same for anybody in any role really.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you establish yourself as that thought leader and you do pick a niche that stands out and you use that as part of your personal branding or your personal marketing, there's nothing to say you're not going to be standing up at some conference talking about it.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're hyper focused on something that you're passionate about and your in that interests you, you're going to stand out and it's only going to help you in your career whether you're setting up your own business, whether you're looking for a better paid job, whether you're looking for a better experience, a job with purpose, whatever it might well be.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the super duper interesting things about that as well is when you become that key person of influence, your network of individuals that you socialize with in that pool become far greater.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you tend to then meet key people of interest influence in other sectors.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then when that happens you start to be introduced to other people at a very higher level so it's like a kind of fast track to super duper networking on steroids.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of kind of trying to find yourself raise yourself and it works.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think again where power planners who have that entrepreneurial spark within them it's a great opportunity for them to showcase that and to get on things like social media perhaps maybe using things like video content creation etc there's your connection to being able to do so to raise your profile.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: I had a conversation quite recently and I believe also that there are a number of really good people in power planning positions that actually can also deliver fantastic social media content because they know the ins and outs of how product works, why you use it, what investment solutions are how to explain IHT real complicated things they're probably incredibly good at at articulating.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: So again it's that power planner thinking what can I do just to scratch the itch because I'm a creative marketer for example I want to build my marketing then why not stand up and speak to your your your your your financial planner or and work together to create some coaching content for example you know there's so many good things that can be done if you just kind of step up above it and and raise your profile.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to do that that's you know great.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: But it makes you it gives you something else doesn't it it gives you something else within that role that you're not just defining yourself as a mushroom feed them shit and keep them in the dark you know which some people feel that way you know Michelle it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know really looking forward to to getting to know you even further you've got a really great business there by the sounds of it.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm you know what you're telling us so far, it sounds like an amazing place to work.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_02: And if I was listening to this podcast and I was thinking to myself God damn it I want to be a power planner or I want to work for a firm that are going to look out for my well being uh give me career development and reward me in the right way and keep me motivated I think you'd be top of my list Michelle.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's good to hear.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks very much for your time today.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_02: Have an amazing day and um all the best.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: No worries thank you so much.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: Nice one