Latest / Pod Save America / “Plans vs. Pipe Dreams.” (Debate recap special!)

Transcript

“Plans vs. Pipe Dreams.” (Debate recap special!) · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: We're all here for the Big Post Debate Spectacular. Before
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: we dive in, we do have some exciting news. The
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: crew of Crooked Media has been working on a brand
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: new top secret podcast for a little while now. And
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: we finally got the green light to hint at what's coming.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: We're announcing all the details early next week, but if
• 0:43
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• 0:44
  Speaker 3: up to, you've got to sign up for the newsletter,
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: which is just fantastic.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Fantastic.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: We've got Sarah Lazarus on board now writing it. Brian Boitler,
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: as always. The whole crew here. It's fantastic. You can
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: sign up at crooked.com slash subscribe to find out about
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: our new podcast. We're really excited about it and we
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: think you will be too. Also, little plug for the
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: 2019 elections that are coming up in a month. Democrats
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: have a chance to make big gains in Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi,
• 1:13
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• 1:16
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• 1:18
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• 1:24
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• 1:28
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• 1:31
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• 1:34
  Speaker 3: do right from the comfort of your home.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Last night in Westerville, Ohio, the Democrats held their fourth
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: and largest primary debate in history, featuring 12 candidates. Joe Biden,
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg, Kamala Harris, Andrew Yang,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: Cory Booker, Beto O'Rourke, Amy Klobuchar, Julian Castro, Tulsi Gabbard,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: And Tom Steyer shared the stage for three hours.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Three hours.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: That's normal, right? Usually you get more people in debates
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: as they go on in primaries. You know what's funny, though?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And they get longer.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Right before Iowa, there will be a seven-hour debate with
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: all 50 candidates.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: I will say, though, even though there were a lot
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: of people on the stage and it was three hours long,
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: it actually only felt like three hours.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: It felt like five to me. It felt like exactly
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: three hours.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: One hour in.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: I saw John Harwood tweet, well, that's an hour. We
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: got two left. And I nearly started crying.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It was long.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: It was hosted by CNN and the New York Times.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: The moderators were Anderson Cooper and Aaron Burnett of CNN
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: and Mark Lacey of the New York Times. So, guys,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: this was the first debate where Elizabeth Warren was, if
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: not a frontrunner, co-frontrunner. And she was, you know, it's
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: a tie. It's like a tie in the average right now.
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: Two-way tie for first.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Two-way tie for first between her and Biden.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: And she was challenged more than she ever has been
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: before by almost every candidate on stage.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Which is a lot of people.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of people.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: So let's listen to her first exchange with Pete Buttigieg
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: and Amy Klobuchar over, you guessed it, Medicare for All.
• 3:15
  Speaker 6: Your signature, Senator, is to have a plan for everything.
• 3:18
  Speaker 6: Except this. No plan has been laid out to explain
• 3:22
  Speaker 6: how a multi-trillion dollar hole in this Medicare for All
• 3:26
  Speaker 6: plan that Senator Warren is putting forward is supposed to
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: get filled in.
• 3:30
  Speaker 7: And a part of that is we've got to stop
• 3:32
  Speaker 7: Americans from going bankrupt over health care costs.
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: Senator Klobuchar, do you want to respond?
• 3:37
  Speaker 8: Yes, I do. And I appreciate Elizabeth's work. But again,
• 3:41
  Speaker 8: the difference between a plan and a pipe dream is
• 3:44
  Speaker 8: something that you can actually get done. And we can
• 3:47
  Speaker 8: get this public option done and we can take on
• 3:49
  Speaker 8: the pharmaceutical companies and bring down the prices. But what
• 3:53
  Speaker 8: really bothers me about this discussion, which we've had so
• 3:56
  Speaker 8: many times, is that we don't talk about the things
• 3:58
  Speaker 8: that I'm hearing about from regular Americans.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: OK, first question. Why do we keep having these exchanges
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: every single debate? Will we be having them forever about
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Medicare for All?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: What a good question. Well, I feel like there's two
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: parts of it.
• 4:15
  Speaker 6: One is.
• 4:16
  Speaker 9: I.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: Guess here's the question I had when I watched that exchange.
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: So we've had this conversation four times now in four
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: different debates.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Almost verbatim.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: And there are two parts to it. The one part
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: is the... public option candidates trying to find a way
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: to criticize Medicare for all without seeming like wet blankets.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: And I think each time they've been trying different tacks
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: at this. And then the second piece of it is
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: that Elizabeth Warren is refusing to say something very specific,
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: and everyone on that stage knows what's going on. She
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: does not want to say on camera that, according to
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: the Bernie plan, taxes will rise for the middle class
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: because she is making a bigger argument that, on the whole,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: costs for the middle class will go down, and she
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: does not want to create video of herself saying that,
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: which will be used as a cudgel in the general
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: to misleadingly tell middle class voters that she's going to
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: cost them more money because her broader point is correct.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: Under Medicare for All, even if your taxes go up,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: overall your health care costs will go down further than
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: your taxes will go up because the costs will be shifted,
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: will be progressive and shifted up towards the wealthy. And
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: we've kind of been trapped in a loop on this,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: but the difference is with this debate is this time
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: I think we had the most sophisticated debaters coming at
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: her on this, which are Amy Klobuchar and Mayor Pete,
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: two people that if they were a high school debating
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: team would be fucking, I think, like ferocious.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they would be. I mean, they may be our one.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: They see, these guys smell some blood in the water
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: here politically for Warren, right? I mean, There's two parts
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: of this. One, there's the cost of Medicare for all,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: which is an attack on both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: But the critique for Warren is broader and it becomes
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: about her credibility. I was just reading a gaggle Biden
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: did today, Wednesday morning, where he is doubling, tripling down
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: on this and just hammering her at a stop in Columbus, Ohio. So,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: you know, that's why Pete is focused on the cost
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: of Medicare for all and the lack of specificity. Michael
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Bennett is running, I think, like a million dollars worth
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: of ads against Medicare for all. in iowa and i
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: think it becomes even more challenging for warren and everybody
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: on stage knows this because the contrast of her answer
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: with bernie just being like yep gonna raise taxes it's
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: part of the plan it is pretty stark when you're
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: like toe tapping for 10 15 30 minutes or your
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: her entire cnn interview after the debate was about this too.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Bet she wishes that uh Bernie never said that about
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: the taxes going up. And if you'll notice, Bernie said
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: that once before a couple of debates ago and has
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: not said it since.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Dan, what do you think?
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: The ultimate irony of this is Elizabeth Warren's going to
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: dance around this in every debate until the end of time.
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: And then if she's the nominee, the Trump campaign will
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: just create a deep fake of her saying it, run
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: an ad on Facebook, it'll get 10 million views, and
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: Mark Zuckerberg will refuse to take it down. So that's
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: where we're ending it.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Do you think it's sustainable, Dan, for her to continue
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: with this answer.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: For the whole primary.
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: No, I don't think it's sustainable because it's not about
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: the financing of Medicare for all. That's no part of
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: the actual conversation. People are harping on this because it
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: is the first crack in the armor that she has offered.
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: She has put so much and so successfully put so
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: much stock in to this persona as a incredibly courageous policy-oriented,
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: detail-oriented person who planned for everything. And here we have
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: on her biggest, most expensive plan, a huge hole, and
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: she's dancing around it, obviously. And it makes her look
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: like a typical politician. And the fact that she has
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: seemed different than other politicians has been her strength. And
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: so people are going to keep hammering this on her.
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: And the other point about this conversation, both this question,
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: the larger Medicare for All conversation, as it relates to
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: Elizabeth Warren, is it's a proxy for electability. They want
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: to say that Medicare for All is bad politically, and
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: it makes her more likely to lose if she's the nominee.
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: And they're proving that because she can't answer a fundamental
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: question that everyone knows will be asked every single day
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: by every reporter in the general election.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Let me ask, what would you guys do if you
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: were on the Warren campaign next time you face this question?
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, or eventually to get out of this box, right?
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: You were saying it's not sustainable. It did seem like
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: You know, the strategy on both sides was pretty apparent
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: last night. We talked about the strategy on the public
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: option side. For Bernie and Elizabeth Warren, the strategy was
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: every time the public option folks sort of got into
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: the details about cost and sort of accused Warren of
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: not being honest about the taxes, they would sort of
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: bring it back to the system is fundamentally broken. Private
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: insurance companies are awful. They make money by denying care.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of people in this country who can't
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: afford health insurance. So they brought it back to the
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: problem with the current private health insurance.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: But that's where they went. They didn't go anywhere else.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Where would you go?
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: I think there would be benefit in Elizabeth Warren being
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: honest about this. She is exactly right, to be very clear.
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: She is right about costs. And it is dumb and
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: sort of operating in a Reagan-esque political frame to think
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: about this in the context of taxes only and not
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: overall costs for families. But it is also a fact
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: that every policy has winners and losers. And there will
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: be some people whose taxes go up more than their
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: healthcare costs come down. And I think she would, because
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: she has been so honest about all of her other policies,
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: having an answer that took on more aggressively the problem
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: with the framing of that question but then gave a
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: little ground on taxes will go up for some people.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: almost entirely the wealthy. I just think when she says
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: the same answer over and over again in every debate
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: for the rest of time, that is not going to
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: wear well. And so there needs to be some sort
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: of pivot that gives a little ground here.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: And I do think to.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: the original question about like, why do we keep going
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: over this time and time again? It's a proxy for electability,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: but also we've all been in primaries before. It is
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: difficult to find policy differences in a primary. When you
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: do find a policy difference, it becomes the opportunity to
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: differentiate yourself from the other candidate. I mean, we spent
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: a month in 2008 in the primary arguing with Hillary
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Clinton over a gas tax. holiday remember because it was.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: Weird yeah because it was 2008 feeling in my stomach.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: It was a we made it a huge deal we
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: made the individual mandate in the health care plan an
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: enormous deal not just the.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: Primary individual individual mandate versus automatic enrollment.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Right and so that like this is why this kept
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: this keeps getting brought up because there aren't a ton
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: of other big issues going forward where the candidates have
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: big disagreements i do think then to your point about
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: where Warren should go from here. I think if she
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: is more granular about taxes and costs and specific about
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: the plan, it will also give her the opportunity to
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: point to the other candidates and say, you have trade-offs
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: in your plan as well. Like, I don't know that
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: either Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren have been sharp enough
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: on the deficiencies or the trade-offs in the other plans because, yeah,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: there's trade-offs on Medicare for all. There's costs, there's taxes,
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: there's all this kind of stuff. There's also trade-offs in
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Pete's plan, in Amy Klobuchar's plan, in Biden's plan, right?
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Like they don't cut costs in the healthcare system as
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: much as the Sanders and Warren plan. Their plans are
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: more expensive. Other people are going to pay more out
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: of pocket in their plans than they are in Sanders
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: and Warren. Like they're just, you know, there's trade-offs.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: This was, I think, the most sophisticated debate we've had,
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: but it's still not really getting at the pros and
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: cons of a public option versus Medicare for all and
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: why they actually do believe it is a better system
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: in which people transition from private insurance. One thing I
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: was thinking about when I was watching them is like,
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg are really fucking smart. And
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: Pete specifically, I think, has thought a lot about how
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: can I be on the attack without giving ground on policy?
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: How can I go after Elizabeth Warren without seeming like
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: I'm throwing a wet blanket on boldness? It's the same
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: thing what he tried to do with Beto later on.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: And this is the one place where the script is
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: kind of flipped. For the past three debates, what we've
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: seen is, I think, the bolder, more left candidates attacking
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: kind of the moderation, and lack of kind of, and
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: the nuance of some of the other candidates on the stage.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: And this is the one place where that sort of
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: is flipped, where what they're actually doing is they're saying,
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: you're being political. You're the political one now. I'm the honest,
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: bold change maker.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: You're political.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: And I think that's why ultimately it's such a good
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: attack and why it's not sustainable for her to stay
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: where she's at.
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: The other reason we go around the bend on this
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: is the debates and the conversation and the campaigns are
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: always focused on legislation you pass, which is really a
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: dumb way to think about the president. So we know
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: having worked there, that you can do so much more
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: with executive authority. Obviously, they spend time talking about foreign policy,
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: which is something presidents can do on their own, but
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: there should be more of a conversation, but not about
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: the bills that no candidate is likely to pass in
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: the form in which they're proposed, and more about how
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: they would go about fixing the health care system on
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: their own. How would they repair Obamacare? Who would they
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: appoint to these jobs?
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: Which would be a very refreshing question and debate.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: The pen and phone debate.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Asking them all, let's say that Mitch McConnell holds the
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: Senate and there's a Republican Senate, what are you going
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: to do to improve the health care system?
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: It would be very interesting.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: I do think back to your point, Lovett, there's a
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: difference between Klobuchar and Pete, which I want to raise here.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: Klobuchar has been moderate from the start. This has been
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: her whole theory of the case. maybe she hasn't made
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: the argument as sharply as she has, as she did
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: last night in the fourth debate, which I thought she
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: was very sharp. Pete, Pete back in February was arguing
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: that Medicare for all is the compromise position and the
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: center of the political debate because it involves private hospitals
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: and doctors, but public, a public payer and a lot
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: of liberals and people on the left side. Oh, that's
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: a very interesting way to frame it for Pete. Pete
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: also said many times about Republicans that, it's time to
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: stop worrying about what the Republicans will say because they'll
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: accuse us of being crazy socialists no matter what kind
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: of policies we propose. So we might as well propose
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: the policies that are right. So the fact that he
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: came out of the gate and became so popular by
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: being this bold, progressive truth teller, and now he's looking
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: to be the more moderate alternative to Joe Biden, I
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: think opens up a vulnerability for him as we go
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: forward that Warren or Sanders or some of the other
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: more progressive candidates could easily exploit.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he probably benefits by being one of
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: many people attacking Elizabeth Warren last night. But I was
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: surprised that we saw so much angry Pete last night because...
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think it served him well. I don't know
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: that it did. I mean, look, we'll find out. I
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: don't know that it did either. I mean, Dan, I
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: saw you talking about this on Twitter. Like, he has
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: two choices. When you're in third or fourth place, you
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: have the choice of attacking and losing or not attacking. So, like,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: you have to do something to shake up your campaign. But,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I mean... To John's point, I think if you're going
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: to attack someone's honesty and credibility when you yourself have
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: changed significantly on policy, that's a challenge. And when you're
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: going to sound a little bit harsh in tone, when
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: you have been sort of bring everybody together, this is
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: why they hate Washington, stop the food fights guy. It
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: felt a little disjointed with the previous part of his campaign.
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: I think I have a different take. I don't think
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: he came off as angry. I think this was his
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: best debate. And I say that not because his performance
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: was as good, right? Because that's often how we judge.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: We're like, well, Cory Booker was incredibly likable and he
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: had some good moments. He knows what his strategy is.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: He knows what he thinks his lane is, and he
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: executed it aggressively. He is trying to change the dynamic
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: of a race. He's really, of the most of the
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: canceling stage there, have no plan to win, right? They
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: just really don't. He has a path. He has figured
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: it out.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: That is 100% true. He does.
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: It has required him to make some adjustments from where
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: he was.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: But.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: You just sort of yadda yaddaed over that.
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: But every candidate does that, right? And I think we
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: should watch it very carefully. There's an existential question about
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: how much these debates matter in terms of changing public opinion,
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: but they are very helpful in understanding how candidates see
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: the race.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: The question is, are the adjustments... natural and do they
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: seem authentic or do they seem calculated and i don't
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: and i don't know you're right like that we are
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: we are way too in this we pay attention to
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: this way too closely it is very possible that for
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: most people who watch the debate they just saw a
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: really strong performance from pete he executed on a lot
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: of answers very very well but there's a little bit
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: of like you know for the last couple weeks a
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: lot of pundits out there being like pete's got a
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: get into that moderate lane. Pete's got to be more
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: aggressive in these debates. And then he shows up and
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: he's in the moderate lane and more aggressive in these debates. And,
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: you know, I saw Liz Smith, his communications person on
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Twitter last night, tweet out. She's like, for all the
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: people who are saying that Pete couldn't throw or take
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: a punch, tonight shows you otherwise. And it's like, okay, well,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: that's even more leaning into like, all right, you told
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: us to do this and now we're doing it.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: Well, I actually think what's more important to me is not,
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: did he throw a punch or not? And even not
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: what were the attacks? What was he trying to say
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: about Warren or Beto or any other people he kind
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: of mixed it up with? It's more, what does it
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: say about him as a candidate, right? So the aggressiveness
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: is a means to get attention. What is he saying?
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: So when he goes after Elizabeth Warren about being evasive,
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: he's saying, I'm the honest Midwestern truth teller. When he
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: goes after Beto on guns, he's saying, I'm the only
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: one being honest about what we can actually achieve, right? Like,
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: you start to see the attacks are a vehicle for
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: the message that he's now trying to say. And I
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: think it's actually, we have seen debate after debate, the
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: more moderate candidates struggle to figure out how to not
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: fall into the, to seem kind of, you know, squishy
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: compared to Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. It's happened again
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: and again. I think that to me is the takeaway
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: on Pete, that he is thinking about how to be
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: a angry.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Bold, moderate. I thought Pete was like aggressive and compelling
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: on Syria, for example. Yes. He knew his shit. He
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: was righteous.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: It was his best moment.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: It worked.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: And maybe the best moment of the night. Yeah.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: It was really impressive. I just do think like, you know, he,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: the front runners in Iowa are like 20, 21, 22%.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: He's sitting at 14%, which is really kind of great
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: place to be at this point in the race. And
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: there is a risk. If suddenly all the Warren people
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: are like, what the fuck? He was being a dick
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: to her last night. And all the Biden people think that.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: And all the Beto people. You know, it's like there
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: is a risk to being too negative too early.
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: Oh, for sure.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Look, I think he was not as aggressive as Castro
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: was with Biden in the last debate. Or as we're
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: going to talk about, Biden was with Warren at the
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: end of last night's debate over the fucking Consumer Financial
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: Protection Bureau issue.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Which was, like, way too much.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: That was bad.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: But there were, like, I think Pete's walking a fine
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: line here, and I think there were flashes of annoyance
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: and aggressiveness that were a little much, but he mainly
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: kept it.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: He mainly kept it in the right place.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: It was a diffuse.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Tool that he was using.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: It was like, now's the time where I'm going to
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: make this point by contrasting myself with you, but if
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: you actually, like, dig into the actual, you're like, what
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: are you actually saying here? What is your actual disagreement?
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: It's not really, I kind of, it falls.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Apart in your fingers.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Well, that's my thing is that I think, I think
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Warren was maybe not as prepared as she'll be next
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: time to sort of tear into some of Pete's inconsistencies.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the question.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: I don't think she handled them as well as she
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: could last night.
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: I think that's the question for Pete, which is now
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: he has, like, the page has turned. For a long time,
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: he was the inspiring, good news, non-threatening candidate, right? And
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: now people, he's making a play for other people's supporters.
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: He's trying to take down Biden and Warren because he
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: is the one candidate who is most likely to benefit
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: from the fall of both of them. And if you
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: talk to reporters, you talk to people in the campaigns,
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: almost universally, the candidate in the campaign that all the
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: other campaigns are most annoyed with is Pete. And so
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: I think there's going to be several counter punches over
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: the next few days, and we'll have to see whether
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: they're ready for it.
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Warren was also challenged on her wealth tax by Beto
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: O'Rourke and Amy Klobuchar.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.
• 20:35
  Speaker 10: I think we need to be focused on lifting people up.
• 20:38
  Speaker 10: And sometimes I think that Senator Warren is more focused
• 20:43
  Speaker 10: on being punitive or pitting some part of the country
• 20:46
  Speaker 10: against the other instead of lifting people up and making
• 20:50
  Speaker 10: sure this country comes together around those solutions.
• 20:53
  Speaker 8: I want to give a reality check here to Elizabeth
• 20:56
  Speaker 8: because no one on this stage wants to protect billionaires,
• 20:58
  Speaker 8: not even the billionaire wants to protect billionaires. We just
• 21:02
  Speaker 8: have different approaches. Your idea is not the only idea.
• 21:07
  Speaker 8: And when I look at this, I think about Donald Trump,
• 21:09
  Speaker 8: the guy that after that tax bill passed, went to Mar-a-Lago,
• 21:13
  Speaker 8: got together with his cronies and said, guess what? You
• 21:16
  Speaker 8: guys all got a lot richer. That was the one
• 21:20
  Speaker 8: time in his presidency he told the truth. So we
• 21:23
  Speaker 8: have different ways. I would repeal significant portions of that
• 21:26
  Speaker 8: tax bill that helped the rich, including what he did
• 21:29
  Speaker 8: with the corporate tax rate, including what he did on
• 21:31
  Speaker 8: international taxation.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: You add it all up.
• 21:34
  Speaker 8: You got a lot of money that one helps pay
• 21:37
  Speaker 8: for that child care, protects that dignity of work, make
• 21:40
  Speaker 8: sure we have decent retirement and make sure that our
• 21:43
  Speaker 8: kids can go to. Thank you. It is not one idea.
• 21:46
  Speaker 9: This was a moment where.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: I was like, I don't understand what we're arguing about.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: Elizabeth Warren does not support the Trump tax cuts.
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: What she is responding to is this idea that if
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: you're not for Warren's wealth tax, then you are pro-billionaire,
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: which is an argument that both Bernie, who has a
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: similar wealth tax, and Warren have made, certainly implicitly and
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: sometimes explicitly. And Klobuchar's position, which I think she delivered
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: very well, is there are other ways to get that.
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: And no one here is pro-billionaire. Even Tom Steyer is
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: taxing himself at $ 50 million in order to run a campaign.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: I thought Klobuchar's answer was the sharper one there and
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: made sense. Well, we can talk about Beto's answer in
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: a second.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: What Amy Klobuchar is saying there is we can do
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: a lot of good by repealing the Trump tax cuts,
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: but I don't think anyone on that stage really disagrees
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: with that. She made a compelling argument for why we
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: should repeal those tax cuts, but I don't understand.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Because she's just saying, I don't think the wealth tax
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: works and the way to get the money we need
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: is to repeal the Trump tax cuts.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: I guess that's what I'm saying. She didn't make an
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: argument against Elizabeth Warren's plan. She made an argument for
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: something that everybody on that stage would do anyway.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: No one has, no one except for Beto's weird argument
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: was talking about why the wealth tax specifically is bad.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: The reason that, and we didn't play the first part
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: about Beto's answer, the reason that Beto's answer was so
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: fucking confusing and basically nonsensical was they asked Beto, do
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: you support a wealth tax? And he said, yeah, I
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: think that's part of the solution. And then he was like,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: I'm worried that Elizabeth Warren is punitive.
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: He's trying to make the point that Elizabeth Warren is
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: too divisive.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: But he didn't have the facts to, he didn't use.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: The substance for it.
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: This is also Pete's argument. This was implicit throughout the
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: entire debate. And Klobuchar, to another extent, is we need
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: a candidate who can unify the country when this is
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: all over, both to win the election and fix all
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: the fucking problems Trump did. And the argument, which I
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: think is unfair, but is that Warren is too divisive
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: to do that. I just think the wealth tax is
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: a terrible way to make that argument.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe the worst way to make the argument.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: The polling on the wealth tax is, latest polling from
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: June is 66% of people in this country think it's
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: a good idea.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: It'll bring the country together.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Specifically, Elizabeth, the question is Elizabeth Warren has proposed a
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: wealth tax. It's very specific. 66% agree, 30% disagree.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: 55% of Republicans think it's a good idea. 43% disagree.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Warren, you could talk all day long about the vulnerabilities
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: of Medicare for all and the position on taking Medicare
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: for all. There are no political vulnerabilities in being for
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: a wealth tax.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: There just aren't.
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: It should be in the Democratic Party platform in the
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: 2020 convention, whether Elizabeth Warren's a nominee or not.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: There's no data that shows it. Show me data that
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: shows it's politically problematic.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: I'm no policy wonk, but I think hammering billionaires is
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: pretty good politics. And let's take a moment.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: You don't even need the polls.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Even the billionaire on stage thinks it's good politics.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: Let's take a moment to say, I think it's so
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: exciting because Tom Steyer spent $ 48 million to get on
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: that stage. And it was so nice of everybody to
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: kind of make him part of it. Because when you
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: pay for a VIP ticket like that, sometimes you don't
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: know if you're really going to feel like it was
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: worth it. But then the fact that Amy made a
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: joke about him, made him part of the show, I
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: think was really cool.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Divisive tie? I kind of liked it. Plaid tie?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I like a plaid tie.
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: I think there's a backstory to the tie.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he wears it all the time.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Wonderful.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Later in the night, Warren was even challenged by Kamala
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Harris on her reluctance to call on Twitter to ban
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump's account.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.
• 25:12
  Speaker 11: Senator Warren, I just want to say that I was
• 25:14
  Speaker 11: surprised to hear that you did not agree with me
• 25:17
  Speaker 11: that on this subject of what should be the rules
• 25:20
  Speaker 11: around corporate responsibility for these big tech companies, when I
• 25:23
  Speaker 11: called on Twitter to suspend Donald Trump's account, that you
• 25:28
  Speaker 11: did not agree. And I would urge you to join
• 25:31
  Speaker 11: me because here we have Donald Trump who has 65
• 25:34
  Speaker 11: million Twitter followers and is using that platform as the
• 25:38
  Speaker 11: president of the United States to openly intimidate witnesses, to
• 25:43
  Speaker 11: threaten witnesses, to obstruct justice.
• 25:47
  Speaker 8: And he and.
• 25:48
  Speaker 11: His account should be taken down.
• 25:50
  Speaker 8: We saw in El Paso.
• 25:52
  Speaker 11: That that shooter in his manifesto was informed by how
• 25:55
  Speaker 11: Donald Trump uses that platform. And this is a matter
• 25:58
  Speaker 11: of corporate responsibility. Twitter should be held accountable and shut
• 26:02
  Speaker 11: down that site. It is a matter of safety and
• 26:04
  Speaker 11: corporate accountability.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: Senator Warren, you can respond.
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: So, look, I don't just want to push Donald Trump
• 26:10
  Speaker 7: off Twitter. I want to push him out of the
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: White House. That's our job.
• 26:15
  Speaker 11: Join me in saying that his Twitter account should be
• 26:17
  Speaker 11: shut down.
• 26:18
  Speaker 7: Let's figure out. No.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: So we didn't hear the very beginning of that, but
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: that whole thing started with Elizabeth Warren talking about sort
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: of breaking up Facebook and tech regulation. And then Kamala
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: sort of gets herself ready and says, you know, Senator Warren,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: I called on Twitter to take down the account and
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: I saw that you refused to join me on this.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: So she, she specifically decided to just kind of take,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: make a challenge to Elizabeth Warren about this issue.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Why do we think she did this?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, so I, I, criticized this line, maybe
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: a little too harshly on Twitter, heard from some folks
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: on Kamala's team. Look, I like Kamala Harris a lot.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I thought she had a really great line on the
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: assault weapons ban when she brought up reproductive health. I
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: thought it was really compelling and powerful. Those are big,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: important issues, right? The fact that we have a white
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: nationalist president who is inciting violence against others, I think
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: is a big, important issue that is worthy of discussion
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: on that stage. But I think the solution of shutting
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: down his Twitter account by appealing to Jack Dorsey is
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: small and will not solve it. I mean, just he'll,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: he can go on Facebook, he can go on Instagram,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: he can do big rallies, he can hold a press conference, right?
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Like we have to beat Donald Trump by appealing to voters,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: not by appealing to Jack Dorsey, in my opinion.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So, right.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: But like, this is a debate. Everything is planned and
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: designed for political advantage. And so even just from like
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: a tactical perspective, I don't think strategically this was the
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: issue I would have taken up against Elizabeth Warren or
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not dismissing the issue of abuse of people on Twitter,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: but I don't think it's going to drive a lot
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: of support her way. It seemed sort of pre-calculated and
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: it seems smaller than the issue of the way Facebook
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: specifically has distorted our democracy. And like, it wasn't also
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: just like one little moment, right? Like when you say
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: something like that, you know, all the reporters going to
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: pick it up because they live on Twitter. And I
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: watched her post-debate interview on CNN and on MSNBC and
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And this was the focus of both of those conversations,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: like three questions in a row on both networks. So
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: it's just not the thing I would have wanted to
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: be talking about today.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: I was also pretty critical of it. And, you know, actually,
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: you know, Kara Swisher, I talked to her on Love
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: It or Leave It about this. And she actually makes
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: a really good argument for why Trump's account should be
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: taken down from Twitter. Actually, the argument she's really making
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: is Twitter should enforce its rules. And by any fair,
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: objective reading of Twitter's policies, Donald Trump violates them all
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: the time. And he does so in a way that
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: incites violence and hate. and could even lead to genuine
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: harm and threats and fear for people. And it does
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: every single day. That's absolutely true. Elizabeth Warren was making
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: a larger argument about the structural problems in our economy,
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: the ways in which big tech companies and monopolies are
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: influencing our politics and influencing our society, and the dangers
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: that that poses and the importance of regulation. And Kamala
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: Harris was saying that Donald Trump should be banned from Twitter.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: And Twitter should observe its its terms of service.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Fine. But she was also using it as an opportunity
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: to draw contrast. Right.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: She didn't make an argument for removing Trump from Twitter.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: She took an opportunity to try to kind of put
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: Elizabeth Warren on notice to draw a contrast to make
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: a moment out of it. And I found that ultimately not.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: I just didn't find it reflected well of Kamala Harris,
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: who I think is a much better candidate than that,
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: who's had incredibly strong debates in the past, who can
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: make a compelling argument against Donald Trump, who can be bigger.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's pretty simple. If Kamala Harris had said,
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: by the way, you know, now that we're since we're
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: talking about tech, big tech and its responsibility, I've called
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: on Jack to shut down Donald Trump's account. And I
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: hope everyone on this stage will join me in saying that.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I don't think she would have gotten any criticism over it.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: I don't think anyone would have thought it was small.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: I never begrudge someone for taking a position that they
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: really believe in and are passionate about, even if it's
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: something that I disagree with because they just genuinely believe
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: in it. Where I worry is when candidates seem like
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: they are trying to calculate a moment or a lane
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: or a position or something like that. And look, I
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: realize that's campaigns. You do that in campaigns, right? But
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: sometimes it's clumsier than other times, right? Like we just
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: said that Pete's, I believe that Pete's, transition here has
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: been a little clumsy and a little obvious. And I
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: think in that moment, Kamala Harris getting herself ready, turning
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: to Elizabeth Warren, pointing to her to try to bring
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: up the contrast was what that was about. Like I,
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: like I said, if she had just stood up and said,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: everyone on the stage should join me in this, it
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: would have been different.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: It would have been different.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: It was a stunt.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: It is the definition of a stunt. It was a
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: pre-planned moment for her to not just make a case
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: for something important, which is trying to de-platform, uh, violent
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: and racist rhetoric. It was about trying to take a
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: shot at Elizabeth Warren. And at a time when Elizabeth
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: Warren was making a pretty big and important argument about
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: large forces in our society, in our economy, the place
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: where she's strongest as a candidate.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: And I.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: Find it really disappointing because I think one of the
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: things we've talked about many times is how strong a
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: candidate we believe Kamala Harris to be. We saw that
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: in the first debate when she really struck at Joe
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Biden in a way that showed the kind of strength
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: she has as a candidate. But what we've also talked
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: about all along is we sometimes don't understand the larger
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: justification for why she's running for president. And the question
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: I would have for Senator Harris would be, what does
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: this say about the kind of president you'll be that
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: you think this is the big issue to draw contrast
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: with on Elizabeth Warren?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: And look, every candidate, this is the problem as we
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: get this deep into the primary, is that all of
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: the candidates who are not frontrunners are being told by
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: everyone they know and everyone who's working for them and
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: everyone who's consulting them that, like, you've got to draw
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: a contrast. You've got to have a moment to get
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: out front here. And it's not just Kamala.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Like, a lot of them are doing that.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: And, you know, it's tough to watch because so many
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: of them seem preplanned. And it's just like it's an
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: extra level of artifice on the process that I think is,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: you know, it's just obvious sometimes.
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: The only other thing I would add to this very
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: long conversation about this topic is that.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I.
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: Mean, is if we're thinking about what to be really
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: concerned about in the behavior of tech companies as relates
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: to politicians and Donald Trump, it is Facebook's policy that
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: allows politicians, most notably Donald Trump, to lie in ads.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: And basically use Facebook's immense amount of data to target
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: disinformation that the voters at Facebook tells them are most
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: likely to fall for that disinformation.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: And that is.
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: like a massive threat to democracy. And I don't think
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: that should be a point of contrast between the candidates,
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: but I think it is an issue that should be
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: raised and Facebook should have to be held accountable for.
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: And the presidential candidates can help do that.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: All right. We talked about Pete earlier, who was particularly
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: dominant and more aggressive than usual. And in one of
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: his most praised moments of the night, I think rightly,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: he and fellow veteran Tulsi Gabbard debated the role our
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: military should play in defending our Kurdish allies in Syria.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.
• 33:21
  Speaker 9: The slaughter of the Kurds being done by Turkey is
• 33:25
  Speaker 9: yet another negative consequence of the regime change war that
• 33:28
  Speaker 9: we've been waging in Syria. Donald Trump has the blood
• 33:31
  Speaker 9: of the Kurds on his hand, but so do many
• 33:35
  Speaker 9: of the politicians in our country from both parties who
• 33:38
  Speaker 9: have supported this ongoing regime change war in Syria that
• 33:42
  Speaker 9: started in 2011, along with many in the mainstream media
• 33:46
  Speaker 9: who have been championing and cheerleading this regime change war?
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: Respectfully, Congresswoman, I think that is dead wrong. The slaughter
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: going on in Syria is not a consequence of American presence.
• 33:58
  Speaker 6: It's a consequence of a withdrawal and a betrayal by
• 34:02
  Speaker 6: this president of American allies and American values. Look, I
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: didn't think we should have gone to Iraq in the
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: first place. I think we need to get out of Afghanistan.
• 34:10
  Speaker 6: But it's also the case that a small number of
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: specialized special operations forces and intelligence capabilities were the only
• 34:18
  Speaker 6: thing that stood between that part of Syria and what
• 34:21
  Speaker 6: we're seeing now, which is the beginning of a genocide
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: and the resurgence of ISIS. Meanwhile, soldiers in the field
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: are reporting that for the first time they feel ashamed,
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: ashamed of what their country has done.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: So, Tommy, first of all, what's wrong with Tulsi's argument?
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: And what is her overall, it's hard to pin down
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: her worldview here.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so she's saying that Turkey is invading Syria and
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: killing the Kurds, our allies, because of a, quote, regime
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: change war that we've been waging in Syria.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she said that a lot. She used that phrase
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she referred to a regime change war in Yemen
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: as well. That's just not accurate, right? When Obama was president,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: he called on President Assad to go. but there was
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: no effort to march towards Damascus and take him out.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: That never happened. So she's just totally wrong. In fact,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: the northeastern part of Syria has been occupied by these
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Kurdish forces, and things have been relatively safe and relatively
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: calm there since basically the Kurds and the international coalition
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: waged this campaign against ISIS and took back Raqqa and
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: all these other places. So I don't know what the
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: fuck she's talking about. And then she starts talking about
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: how the New York Times and CNN smeared her for
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: calling for. So it's like it's just so loaded with grievance.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: And to use this moment on this huge stage when
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: you are a veteran and you have experience serving the
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: military and some knowledge of the region and to make
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: it about yourself and the way you were treated by
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: a CNN commenter just so misses the point. I couldn't
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: believe it. Yeah.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: And I think the reason that Pete's answer was so effective,
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: aside from the fact that he just delivered it really
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: well and was strong and forceful, um, was anytime someone
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: on stage makes an argument that seems like Trump's argument,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: which she basically did it. And then you can say,
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: don't make Trump's argument, you know, is a pretty powerful moment.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: And I think Pete seized on that pretty, pretty quickly.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's interesting.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: You know, the, the, the first applause line of the night,
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: I made fun of him earlier, but sharply, uh, but
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: like Tom Steyer's The first time the audience broke and
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: agreed to applaud when they were kind of, I think,
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: maybe told not to. And to the chagrin of the
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: candidates with their prepped applause lines, just sort of going
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: into just fucking crickets.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: That was awkward.
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: Where's our laugh track? Yeah, really tough.
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: But it was when he said, let's remember where every
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: person on the stage is a decent person who would
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: be a far better president than Donald Trump.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And we should all just keep that in mind.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: Like it was it was, I thought, a very gracious
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: way for Tom Steyer to introduce himself and a reminder, too,
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: of like the stakes. I think sometimes in these debates,
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: especially with so many people on stage, you lose sight
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: of that. And what Pete did was, I think, recenter
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: the focus on the actual stakes of this and just
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: how damaging Donald Trump is and how unpatriotic he is.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: And I think that was incredibly powerful and probably the
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: best moment Pete's had across all the debates.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: Another heated exchange was between Pete and Beto O'Rourke, who
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: continued the fight they've been having about Beto's proposal to
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: have the government buy back every assault weapon in America.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Let's listen.
• 37:23
  Speaker 10: I want to make sure we have universal background checks
• 37:25
  Speaker 10: and red flag laws and that we end the sale
• 37:28
  Speaker 10: of these weapons of war. But to use the analogy
• 37:30
  Speaker 10: of health care, it would be as though we said, look,
• 37:32
  Speaker 10: we're for primary care, but let's not talk about mental
• 37:34
  Speaker 10: health care because that's a bridge too far. People need
• 37:37
  Speaker 10: that primary care now. So let's save that for another day. No,
• 37:40
  Speaker 10: let's decide what we are going to believe in, what
• 37:42
  Speaker 10: we are going to achieve. And let's bring this country
• 37:45
  Speaker 10: together in order to do that. Listening to my fellow Americans,
• 37:48
  Speaker 10: to those moms who demand action, to those students who
• 37:51
  Speaker 10: march for our lives, who, in fact, came up with
• 37:53
  Speaker 10: this extraordinary, bold peace plan that calls for mandatory buybacks.
• 37:57
  Speaker 10: Let's follow their inspiration and lead and not be limited
• 37:59
  Speaker 10: by the polls and the consultants and the focus groups.
• 38:02
  Speaker 10: Let's do what's right while we have time to do
• 38:04
  Speaker 10: what's right.
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: The problem isn't the polls. The problem is the policy.
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: And I don't need lessons from you on courage, political
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: or personal. Everyone on this stage is determined to get
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: something done. Everyone on this stage recognizes, or at least
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: I thought we did, that the problem is not other
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: Democrats who don't agree with your particular idea of how
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: to handle this. The problem is the National Rifle Association
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: and their enablers in Congress, and we should be united
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: in taking the fight for that.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: All right, so who is more persuasive here on this,
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Beto or Pete?
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: I think Beto. Beto was making an argument about policy
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: with passion. Pete was making an argument about legislative strategy
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: and how the Republicans react to our proposals, which, as
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: we've noted in the terms of Pete's awkward transitions, is
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: the exact opposite of the argument that he made through
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: the beginning of this campaign, that we should say what
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: we believe and then make that sell to voters and
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: not try to change our rhetoric to adjust to the
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: Republican talking points that are coming.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's pretty clear if you were
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: to be inside the Buttigieg campaign that none of them
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: were happy with Pete blurting out that Beto's position on
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: this was chasing a shiny object. It's just a dismissive
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: thing to say. It's also, again, looking at the polling
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: like we did on the wealth tax, mandatory buybacks, surprisingly
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: to me, is a position that a little over half
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: the country agrees with.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: It is not a very unpopular position. It's in fact,
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: you know, it's not like a whole bunch of Republicans
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: are for it. I'm sure it's harder in swing states
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: and swing districts, but it's not terribly unpopular. So to
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: call it a shiny object. does open you up to
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: charges of, are you too worried about the polls, which
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Beto accused him of being, and then to come back
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: at that by saying, I don't need any lessons in
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: courage from you, referencing his military service, struck me as
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: a little much, particularly when Beto started the debate by
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: praising Pete and Tulsi Gabbard for their military service and
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: was making a point purely about polls and didn't even
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: say the word courage, actually.
• 40:14
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Seems right. You know, but but but it's interesting.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: Like this was one of those times where I was like,
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to like Pete is so I just see
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: what Pete's trying to avoid saying in the answer. And
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: it's and you know, the like, does Pete think like
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: if if he could make policy in a vacuum, would
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: he support what Beto's doing?
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know the answer because he didn't want to
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: address the actual substance of it. He didn't want to
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: actually get.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Said he did, which was funny. He was like, this
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: isn't about the politics. This is about the policy, which
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think is workable.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Well, which is interesting, right?
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: And then it was this sort of kind of confusing
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: conversation about the enforcing of the law, which I found
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: like very kind of weird question and weird conversation that
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: really I think was pretty hard to follow and didn't
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: leave much of an impression.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting. I think the thing that I contrast
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: this with is what Pete said.
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: Earlier about like, you know, after Donald Trump is gone,
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: the country will be incredibly divided. Do you really want
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: to create even more division by going for Medicare for all?
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I think that's a more honest argument, right?
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: Basically saying like, I don't think it's worth the political
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: capital to do Medicare for all. I'd rather do a
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: public option and something else. I find that, I think,
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: at least worthy of a debate. But his pushback, it
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: was just sort of a diffuse, I'm being honest, you're
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: being politically unrealistic. Your boldness is a sign of ordinary politics.
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: My lack of boldness is a sign of the fact
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: that I tell it like it is, but it just
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: wasn't telling it like it is because he was dancing
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: through the various pitfalls of what he was saying.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there are people who think that the courage
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: line was strong and well-delivered and compelling and sets Pete
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: up well to throw a punch at Donald Trump that
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: may or may not involve his military service. There are
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: probably others who think that Beto O'Rourke's framing of making
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: this about victims of gun violence and March for Our
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Lives felt bigger and made it not about him or
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: the politics of the moment. Stepping back, I think they
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: both landed some blows. It got them some attention, which
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I think probably net benefits both campaigns. But like longer term,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Beto O'Rourke has done a lot of great work on
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: raising the issue of gun violence and gun control in
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: this campaign. If he cannot find another chapter in this campaign,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: another set of issues to talk about, it will be over.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: And they need to know that, you know, like these candidates,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: like they all have to make the next debate Or
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: they're probably, their campaign is not going to be able
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: to raise any more money and they will essentially have
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: to shut down. And like, if I were his team,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I would be trying to figure out what is that
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: next thing? How do I broaden this message that I've
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: been delivering on guns about a whole other set of issues?
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: I think there's a real debate to be had about
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: the feasibility of mandatory buybacks, right? Like it is a
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: position that I support. I think Democrats should advocate. But
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: there are real questions. How are you going to get
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: these guns? What's the process? The penalty for people not
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: doing it?
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: And like, even Elizabeth Warren, right, and Bernie Sanders have
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: not adopted this position, right? So this isn't necessarily a
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: progressive litmus test.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: And also, we should note that Castro made a very interesting,
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Julian Castro made an interesting point on this, which is,
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: I don't want to give the police another reason to
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: be going door to door in communities, especially communities of color,
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: poor communities, with, you know, the problems we have with
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: police violence, trying to take back guns, which is not
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: an argument I'd heard before, and, you know, interesting that
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: he erased it.
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: I think there are two elements of this. I think
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: it is good when Democrats take positions that move the
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: Overton window on these things. And I think this has
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: done that because it is insane, not just that people
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: can buy AR-15s and other weapons of war, but that
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: there's tens of thousands of them rolling around in our streets.
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: My problem with Pete's argument is the Democratic argument that
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: most annoys me. It is 90s pre-Obama argument that we cannot,
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: there are certain things we cannot say because they will
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: upset Republican voters. That if we say this, they will
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: turn out against us, or it'll make the NRA want
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: to spend more money, or the Koch brothers want to
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: spend more money. And any discussion around 2020 that doesn't
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: begin with the premise that a Republican voter will turn
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: out is wrong. We should just say what we believe.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: One person who's made that argument quite eloquently is Pete Buttigieg.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Again. Pete should have just rolled out 30 to 50
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: feral hogs and said, what the fuck are you going
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: to do about that?
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Look, the same people, the same strategists and pundits who
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: told Pete that he's got to be more aggressive and
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: be in the moderate lane were also concerned when he
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: made that argument about Republicans are going to call us
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: crazy socialists anyway, so we might as well say what
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: we believe. And they were concerned about that, and then
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: they've been pushing him to the moderate lane, and then
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: he did it.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: This is my problem with this.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, they do maybe align in this specific way,
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: that he does genuinely believe in a moderate approach to governing,
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: and it is his sincere belief that that's what we
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: should be doing.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: But I don't... Until we get to packing the courts.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Well, no, but love it.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: See, that's interesting, because if Pete's only arguments last night were.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: I'm for my Medicare for all who want it plan
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: because I just think it's too expensive to do.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I think it's a better plan.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: I think it's a better plan. I don't like mandatory
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: buybacks only because I think it's unworkable. Then he would
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: be fine. I would not be criticizing it. But he
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: keeps bringing in it's too divisive. It's a shiny object.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: He keeps bringing the politics of this into his argument.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: And that's where his problem is because previously he said
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: that politics shouldn't matter. If his only critiques of these
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: progressive positions are policy-based, that's totally fine. Bringing the politics
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: into it is refuting himself from earlier in this campaign.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of any way to square it.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Is there any way you can actually make this consistent
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: from what he said before about not adopting Republican talking
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: points and then not wanting to be too divisive?
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: I mean, every candidate has this problem, right? Elizabeth Warren
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: has made not doing fundraisers a big part of it.
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: She did a bunch of fundraisers. They gave her her
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: first $ 10 million in seed money for this campaign. Bernie
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: has gun positions that don't, that he's trying to square
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: the circle on Kamala Harris has supported Bernie's co-sponsor Bernie's
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: Medicare for all bill. Now it's a different, like everyone
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: has this problem. The question is how well is Pete
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: going to be able to execute this and are people
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: going to effectively call him out on it?
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: And that is, if you don't effectively call them out,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: then it's your problem.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: You didn't figure it out.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Democratic primary 2020.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Um, All right, let's talk about Bernie Sanders, who appeared
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: in this debate just a few weeks after suffering a
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: heart attack. He got questions about his health and his age,
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: but he was also very sharp and energetic in this debate,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: I thought. Here he is challenging Joe Biden's record.
• 46:53
  Speaker 12: Joe, you talked about working with Republicans and getting things done.
• 46:57
  Speaker 12: But you know what you also got done?
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: And I say this as a good friend.
• 47:01
  Speaker 12: You got the disastrous war in Iraq done. You've got
• 47:05
  Speaker 12: a bankruptcy bill, which is hurting middle class families all
• 47:08
  Speaker 12: over this country. You've got trade agreements like NAFTA and
• 47:12
  Speaker 12: PNTR with China done, which have cost us four million jobs.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: I'll say one thing about that exchange. We've been talking
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: about sort of the right way to go after Biden.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: A lot of people have gone after Biden in a
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: whole bunch of different ways in this primary. To me,
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: going after his policies and his record, especially Iraq, trade deals,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: the bankruptcy bill, is, I think, probably with voters, the
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: most effective way to go after Joe Biden.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: A lot of people are waiting. I think a lot
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: of people think that foreign policy and experience is Biden's strength, right?
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Certainly Joe Biden does. He said it last night on stage.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: The challenge for him is that when he was asked
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: last night to articulate what he would do differently in Syria,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: it wasn't the most coherent thing I've ever heard, nor
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: was it particularly compelling. He often makes the point about,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: I've met with Putin, I've met with Erdogan. Like, Maybe
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: that works. It's certainly simple for voters to understand, but
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: like I didn't come away blown away by the net
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: impact of that experience. And then Bernie consistently drops the
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: fucking hammer on the Iraq war vote and that he
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: has not figured out how to counter that yet. We're
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: on like round three or four of that exact same criticism.
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: Do you think voters still care about that?
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's a great question.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's diminishing in the minds
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: of some voters and especially for younger voters who are,
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: you know, have aged into the electorate and weren't really
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: around during the Iraq war debate, maybe less so, but I.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Think there's probably, it's like issue five or six after
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: one through four being electability. But I do think that
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: there are a bunch of anti-war activists in Iowa that
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: still can be pretty influential.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: Um, what do we think of Bernie's performance in general
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: before we get to Biden stuff?
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: Great.
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: We should get his doctor's.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He looked good.
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: I mean, he was really strong. And this was a
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: very important debate for Bernie because his campaign, because he'd
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: fallen behind Warren in the polls, there'd been some polls
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: that show him getting closer to the single digits in
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: some cases. And there'd been this sort of narrative of,
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: is this over for his campaign? And so he needed
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: a strong showing. And he has put together, he had
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: really good cash on hand numbers to come out.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: He had a good fundraising quarter. anyone else is the
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: most cash on hand.
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: He had a good debate performance and he's going to
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: cap off this week with the endorsements of AOC, Rashida
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: Tlaib and Ilhan Omar at a rally in Queens. And
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: so he has reasserted himself as a force in this race.
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: And that was incredibly important. If he had had a
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: like a mediocre debate performance, it could have been pretty
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: devastating to his chances.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: Bernie is not going anywhere. That was that much clearer
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: from last night. He is in this for the long haul.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: And look, I think, back to the Medicare for All discussion,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: his response, I thought, on Medicare for All punching back
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: at Biden and Buttigieg and Klobuchar was even stronger than
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Warren's last night because he had this moment where he
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: said the Democratic Party has to have the guts to
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: to take.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: On the insurance companies and the drug companies.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: And I saw someone was conducting a focus group somewhere
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: of Democratic voters. And they said that the focus group
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: of voters much preferred Bernie's response actually to Warren's response
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: to Pete and Amy, which I thought was interesting.
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we saw, it's funny, because long before
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: we got to the health question, right, you can ask
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: Bernie and Biden health questions. They will answer those questions
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: not in that moment, but in how they perform, right?
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: That is what we were looking at. And Bernie was
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: incredibly strong, I thought. You know, the moment I actually,
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: I forgot to mention, which I think is important is
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: Elizabeth Warren. I think for the first time connected, she
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: made an argument against private insurance. She talked about how
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: in her work in bankruptcy, you discover just how, how
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: many medical related bankruptcies are for people with insurance, which
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: I think is one of the most compelling and important
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: arguments for Medicare for all, not just a public option.
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: But what Bernie did, I think in the healthcare section,
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: and I think what Bernie did was there was show
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: why his, he's so strong. And I think sometimes I,
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: myself do this and we all do this. You get
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: into the, kind of the tactics and the strategy, but
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: then you realize, wait, what actually makes a candidate incredibly
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: strong in a debate is they have a compelling and
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: faithful rationale for their candidacy that makes them unassailable, right?
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: Bernie can make that incredibly strong argument because it is
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: something he has said forever. It is consistent. It is
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: incredibly strong. It speaks to his values. It speaks to
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: his genuine philosophical disagreement with the kind of politician Joe
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: Biden is. And it means that the candidates are debating
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: not on garnish, not on little things, not on things
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: on the outskirts, but like they're facing each other kind
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: of chest to chest, big stuff versus big stuff. And
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: I think that's why we've seen Bernie have such strength.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: So at one point, Biden and Warren tangled over the
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Let's listen to that clip.
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: I agreed with.
• 51:59
  Speaker 13: the great job she did. And I went on the
• 52:01
  Speaker 13: floor and got you votes. I got votes for that bill.
• 52:05
  Speaker 13: I convinced people to vote for it. So let's get
• 52:08
  Speaker 13: those things straight, too.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Senator Warren, do you want to respond?
• 52:15
  Speaker 7: I am deeply grateful to President Obama, who fought so
• 52:21
  Speaker 7: hard to make sure that agency was passed into law.
• 52:25
  Speaker 7: And I am deeply grateful to every single person who
• 52:31
  Speaker 7: fought for it and who helped pass it into law.
• 52:35
  Speaker 7: But understand.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: You did a hell of a job in your job.
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: Thank you. But understand this. It was a dream big,
• 52:46
  Speaker 7: fight hard. People told me, go for something little. Go
• 52:51
  Speaker 7: for something small. Go for something that the big corporations
• 52:56
  Speaker 7: will be able to accept. I said, no, let's go
• 53:00
  Speaker 7: for an agency that will make structural change in our economy.
• 53:05
  Speaker 7: And President Obama said, I will fight for that. And
• 53:09
  Speaker 7: he sometimes had to fight against people in his own administration.
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: We have to be willing.
• 53:15
  Speaker 7: To make good, big structural change.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: Why do you think Joe Biden got so mad there?
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know. That was so bad.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: It was bad.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: The angle I was watching, we were all watching from,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: I think he gestures at her and it looks so aggressive.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: It sounded so petty and so condescending of all the
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: things to grab credit for. I don't know why he
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: would lurch for credit for the formation of the CFPB.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: What are you doing, man? And her response was poised
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: and devastating. And like he, he really had a bad
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: moment there.
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: I'm surprised it's not getting more attention because I mean,
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: and look.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: It seems sexist. It seems condescending.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: We criticized Castro for going too hard to Biden last debate.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: And I thought this was the same kind of aggressive tone.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: It's the same thing. And it was bad, you know,
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: and I just and also it's like I'm talking even
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: thinking about voters minds.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 54:09
  Speaker 13: Like.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: I got these votes for you for like an agency
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: that's good for everyone that we all agree on. Like,
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: why are we making it about like, I got the,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: like as if like he was reluctant, but because he
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: was a good soldier, he wouldn't got the votes.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Voters well-versed in the whip count process. Right. What are
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: you talking about?
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: Like, have you, do you believe you've been robbed of
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: your credit for Elizabeth Warren's signature achievement?
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: I know what it is.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: He's thinking to himself, I have been a good progressive
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: Democrat for, My whole life, I was a good foot
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: soldier in the Obama administration. I did everything I was told.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: And now I'm running for president. Everyone's telling me I'm
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: this corporate stooge, moderate, who doesn't care about anything. That's
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: what's in his mind and the mind of his campaign.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: And every once in a while, there's these, you know,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: he can't control these flashes of anger where he, you know,
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: talks about that and how angry he is.
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: Putting aside Biden's reaction to Warren, which I think is
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: problematic for all the reasons you guys said, I think
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: the point he's trying to make is it was really...
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: fucking hard to pass the bill that CFPB was in.
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: And whenever there was trouble getting something through the Senate,
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: Biden would go to the Senate and he would deliver
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: the votes. He did that on a whole range of things.
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: And I think Ryan Grim from The Intercept tweeted he
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: covered the CFPB for a year or so and never
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: ran into Biden in that process. I think it is
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: true that in the formation, the policy development, the staffing
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: of the CFPB, that was not something Biden was involved in.
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: It wasn't in his policy portfolio. But it is true
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: when we needed votes from a pretty conservative group of
• 55:39
  Speaker 5: Democratic senators. Biden delivered those. I don't think he made
• 55:43
  Speaker 5: his point well, but like that is true.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: It also is a point that came up like if
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: he had been directly accused by Elizabeth Warren or a
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: moderator of you didn't care about the CFPB or you
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: weren't there on that fight. And then he responded, say, actually,
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: I was out there getting those votes. It would be
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: totally legitimate to say that. But it sort of came
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: out of nowhere.
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: He's responding to the meta-conversation, not the actual fact.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right, which was the reason.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: It was a little problematic. There is a real lesson
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: that Biden could offer there. Passing Dodd-Frank, Elizabeth Warren brought
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: an incredibly bold and innovative idea. To me, before or
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: long before Elizabeth Warren was a candidate, to me, just
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: from our time in the White House, it was always
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: to me an inspirational case of democracy, because here she
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: was just a thinker, an intellectual who had this idea
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: for an agency that could protect consumers. And through politics,
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: through the Obama administration, through victories in elections, there was
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: an administration that was willing to embrace it and fight
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: for it. And then it took an incredible amount of
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: horse trading and difficult politics to get Dodd-Frank through. In fact,
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: the Consumer Financial Protection Agency had to be downgraded to
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau because because in the fight
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: to get it through, you had to make compromises that
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: downgraded it just a bit to put it inside of
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: another agency just to get it done. And then after that,
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: Elizabeth Warren, who was supposed to run the agency, got dinged.
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: And so she wasn't able to even run the agency
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: she created, again, just because of just bargaining and politics
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: that takes place, which I think Joe Biden has a
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: case to make on why that's important and why he
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: has expertise in it.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: What do we think of Biden's performance overall? I mean,
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: I do think that he had a few really strong
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: moments when he was asked about his age and he said,
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: you know, one of the reasons I think I'm running
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: for president is because my age and with age comes wisdom.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: Another when, you know, Tom, you were talking about this
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: with foreign policy, his record on foreign policy, you could
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: ding a few times. But when he said, look, I've
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: met with Erdogan, I've met with Putin, I've been, you know,
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: like he did a better job last night than usual,
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: I thought, talking up his experience and, and his wisdom
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: that came with experience.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Um, so I thought he had some good moments there,
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: but again, I think on other answers, he, you know,
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: some of the other answers I couldn't follow again.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't follow.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Like I have a ton of respect for Joe Biden.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I think he's incredibly smart. He is experienced. He does
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: have wisdom that comes for age, but like, I just can't,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: I can't grade him on a curve. You know, he
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: had a shitty week and I'm waiting for him to
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: walk into one of these debates and seem sharp and
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: on his toes and on top of everything and to
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: do it with a smile and, like the Joe Biden
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: who debated Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin did, with that big,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: beaming Joe Biden smile that could make every political shot
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: go down easier. And instead, you get the pointing at
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren shouting moments, which I think are just going
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: to nullify anything else that happened that night.
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: I think Biden has begun to make a turn, right?
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: And it is not a smooth turn.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Move in an ocean liner.
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: But he is... Deciding to make his experience an asset.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: Which is something we've been talking about a long time.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: Like trying to align the age question. And now he's
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: leaning into it in a way, which is I've been
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: here to do all these things because I have this
• 59:04
  Speaker 5: experience to do all these things. I am the person
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: best suited not only to beat Trump, but to fix
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: the problems that Trump has created. And that's a very
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: good argument to make. I think the problem for Biden
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: that Tommy has pointed, I think very rightfully pointed out,
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: is Biden has lost the happy part of Happy Warrior.
• 59:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: And that is very understandable. Like, his family has been
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: in the crosshairs from the President of the United States
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: for the last two weeks.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: His son, who is incredibly important to him. I mean,
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: Joe Biden's connection to his children is so incredibly close
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: and born in tragedy. And his son, who has struggled
• 59:40
  Speaker 5: in his life, you know, and struggled in the public
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: eye because of who his father was, is now being
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: tweeted about by the president of the United States. Like,
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: I think I'm not trying to grade him on a curve.
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: I'm just trying to create context for why we may
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: not see the smile and the ability to laugh the
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: stuff off that we've seen from Biden in the past.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: But I also think it's and I don't think this
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: is necessarily an age thing because Bernie Sanders is a
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: year older and just had a heart attack a couple
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: of weeks ago and was as sharp as they come
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: in this debate. But it's just this I don't know
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: if it usually happens to Biden when he's getting a
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: little angry about things that he becomes a little less
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: coherent on some of these answers. Like he almost gets
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: so ready to go that he just starts, you know,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: blabbing a little bit.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: It's just I think you.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Look, it may not cost him among
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: his supporters, but we can all see the trend lines
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: in the race, and he does need to sort of
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: expand the universe of people who are supporting him at
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: some point, or at least not lose any more.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: But I don't know.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it serves him well. I think
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: he's got to find a way to be sharper.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: I've been involved with prepping Biden for TV shows and
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: interviews in the past, and he's someone who's pretty resistant
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 5: to prep. I mean, he knows what he wants to say,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 5: and he feels like he knows how to say it better,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: and he's usually right. He clearly has submitted to the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: prep process here. And it makes sense. He, as we've
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: said before, he has the best debate preppers in all
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 5: of democratic politics working for him, but it sort of
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: feels like he has 120 seconds worth of things to say.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: And he's trying to get him into 60 seconds.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: And he knows that.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: And it's like, he's like.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: In that answer where he was going through his accomplishments,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: which should have been a very, very powerful moment. He
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: tried to fit so many things in that you like
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: saying you accomplish 12 things is not twice as good
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: as saying you accomplish six things.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: And I think that has been a problem. And, Maybe
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: as these debates go on, he'll be able to get
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: into a more natural balance between having the strategic benefits
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: of being involved with a very good debate prep process
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: and still maintaining the authenticity that has been core to
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: his political appeal for decades now.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: A few more candidates who we haven't talked about yet.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: We should.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: How effective was Cory Booker's strategy of constantly calling for
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: democratic unity and focusing on Donald Trump? That was pretty
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: much his play last night.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: Cory Booker, once again, was great.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: He was likable. He had moments that caused people to clap.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: And as far as I can tell, he did nothing
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: to advance his path to the presidency. I do not
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: understand his theory of the case, his plan to win,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: how to change the dynamic of the race where he
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: is at 3% in the polls. And I know, you know,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: we've said this before, his campaign says organize, organize, organize.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: And that is incredibly important. But you have to organize
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: for something. You have to have a rationale. And it
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: just is not... I have, from the very beginning, as
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 5: someone who really likes Cory Booker a lot, and I
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 5: think he offers... a lot, both in this presidential race
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 5: and in American life, I have yet to figure out
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: what is his case for himself to be president? Why
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: him over everyone else?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: I get the, everyone on the stage is a good person.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: Everyone here is better than Donald Trump. I get the,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: I respect the sentiment and I respect the strategy there.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: I do think though, and so maybe it did work
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: for him. It hasn't to date, but maybe it did
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: this time. I do think though that as we're you know,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: we pointed out that Pete has sort of changed strategy
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: over time and it's a bit discordant. It's worth noting
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: that after the last debate, I believe, Cory Booker went
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: on TV and said that people are worried that Joe
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Biden is too old and might fumble the ball before
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: he gets over the goal line, right? Which is a
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: pretty stark contrast to the tone we see on the
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: debate stage. So like, to me, it's interesting. He always
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: seems sort of like kind of annoyed or bemused by
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: the question. It's like an odd It rubs me in
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: an odd way, but I really like him as well.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: He feels like an outside observer to this presidential campaign.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: There was a moment during one of the little scuffles,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: I think one with Pete, and Booker comes in once
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: again to say, see, this is what I'm talking about.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: We have to not do Donald Trump's work for him
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: or whatever the specific line was. And it was an opportunity,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: I think, to kind of enter the debate.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 13: Right?
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: Say what you think. Say why you think.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: It was on the guns thing.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: It was on the guns. Say why you think Mayor
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: Pete's full of shit. That's what you think. Your face
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: says that you think Mayor Pete's full of shit.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Well, he said it last week.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: He also thinks, right, he also thinks that Beto came
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: to the issue too recently.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he has problems with both of them.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: Those would have been interesting things to say. I would
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: have wanted to hear them.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: And I guess, like, to me, I think I've always
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: found the promise of Cory Booker as a candidate quite real.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: And I think it's... And it's something he kind of
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: shows you little glints of. And when he talks about
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: love and embracing people you disagree with and a deeper
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: understanding of what it means to be part of politics.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: I talked to him about it when I interviewed him.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: I keep waiting for the meat on the bone that says, okay,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: if you have this different take, show me what it
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: means in policy. Show me what it means in politics.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: Show me what it means in how you conduct yourself
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: as a candidate. And because he sort of stays to
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: these platitudes in the debate, you never see it. And
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: I've just been waiting to see it. And once again,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: I didn't.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: I guess if I were trying to guess what the
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: Booker campaign strategy is and what Booker's strategy was last night,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: they're all trying to become the alternative to the third
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: alternative to Biden and Warren Bernie.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: A fourth alternative, right?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: And Booker's case is, I'm going to be the one
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: who is all about bringing this country together and not
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: attacking my fellow candidates.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, like you said.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: He has not been there all along because he has
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: been taking shots here and there. But last night, clearly
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: his strategy was, I'm going to be the guy that
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: when all these people are fighting and taking shots at
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: Warren or Biden or whatever else, I'm going to stand back.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: And people are going to want that. People are going
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: to want someone who can bring someone together and talk
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: about love and talk about unity and all that kind
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: of stuff. So I think that's his plan. Whether it works,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: who knows. Julian Castro, he'd been more aggressive in past debates.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: Last night, I think he was much more subdued. I think, look,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: as someone who had criticized him in the past for
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: being too aggressive, I really liked the Julian Castro that
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: showed up last night. I thought he did a great job.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: I thought he, you know, he had a lot of
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: really strong answers and I thought, you know, I thought,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: but it, it, again, it's a question for, you brought
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: up Dan, for Castro, for Booker, for Beto, um, for
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: a lot of these candidates, like what's your plan to
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: get out of two, 3%. And I think this isn't
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: an easy, it's not an easy thing to solve, right?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: Because if it was, You'd just be like, okay, attack
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: other candidates. And that's how I get it. But there
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: are risks with attacking other candidates. There are risks with
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: being too aggressive that we've talked about a lot. On
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: the other end of the spectrum, there's risks with not
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: standing out and just giving bad answers. And when you're
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: in these campaigns, you're like, how do we get attention,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: like Tommy said, without coming across as too aggressive or
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: unfair or too calculated? And that's a really tough challenge
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: at this stage of the race.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: It's really tough.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: And it's tough not because it's not really a tactical question.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: Part of the issue is that the three front runners
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: represent the kind of broad ideological divisions of the Democratic movement.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: You have Joe Biden representing the center to center left.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: You have Bernie representing the left and you have Elizabeth
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: Warren toward Bernie. But but basically saying that I will,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: you know, pretty left, pretty, pretty.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: No, but but I was a pretty left while.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: Establishment friendly left.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: Establishment friendly left saying, you know, she's capitalist. Bernie's a
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: democratic socialist. But I'm but I'm but I'm not a
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: moderate like Joe Biden. And so into that, I think
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: all of these other candidates have struggled for months and
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: months to find a way to get into that conversation
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: and show why they are uniquely suited to be the nominee.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: And I think we see various efforts to.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: Andrew Yang.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: Andrew Yang, on stage again last night, continues to raise
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: a good amount of money, continues to poll higher than
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: some of the other candidates on the stage last night.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: What do we think? How did Yang do?
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 5: With the possible exception of Donald Trump running on racism,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 5: Andrew Yang is the most successful single-issue candidate in history.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: Well, they all talked about universal basic income last night.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: He put that in the debate. He made that a
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: debate issue last night.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 5: And it got a very serious discussion in front of
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 5: what I assume was millions of Americans and put it
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: squarely in the middle of the policy discussion in this country,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: and for that, he should be applauded.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: Dan, apparently Elizabeth Warren went up to him after the
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: debate last night and said, could you please send me
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: the data on UBI and the details of your plan
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: and everything, because.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: I'm really interested. He was pumped about it. Dan, what
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: you just said about Steve Forbes is disgraceful, and I
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: think you need to apologize. Don't arrest Steve Forbes.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: Tommy won't admit this, but he voted for Steve Forbes.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Forbes head. Look.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: Flat tax Tommy. You see these debates.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 5: We all.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Offer some subjective opinion about what we think happened or
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: what voters will think. But then there's a bunch of
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: data in terms of fundraising and polling. And Andrew Yang
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: is an unmitigated success story. Andrew Yang, two years ago,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: was a guy with one big idea about universal basic income.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: And now he's duking it out on stage with Elizabeth
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Warren about automation. That's pretty unbelievable.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting. These debates can be very frustrating, but
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: just stepping back, we've seen actually really good and interesting
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: shifts in the policy discussion as a result of this primary,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: whether it's sort of UBI leading to a discussion of
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: UBI versus a jobs guarantee, both incredibly big, would be
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: incredibly bold and new policies.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: The wealth tax.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: I think Beto has moved the debate on guns. I
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: think Julian Castro moved the debate on immigration. We can
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: be critical of some of the ways in which he's
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: moved it, but he's certainly- And police reform. And police
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: reform as well. And I'm forgetting a few, but we've
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: seen that in this debate. There has been genuine policy
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: focus in these campaigns. And I actually think one of
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: the interesting things in these debates, I think partly because
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: I think moderators have been a little cowed by Twitter
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: and afraid to be called frivolous The debate questions have
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: been such big policy questions. That's why we have big
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: immigration questions, big health care questions. But actually, there hasn't
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: been a lot of like.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Ellen and George Bush.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah. Yeah, sure, sure. No, it's not perfect.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: But I think one of the reasons we've seen it
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: stay at these sort of big policy levels is because
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: there's been such a focus on policy from the candidates.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: And finally, let's end where we began.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: Tom Steyer. First debate. First time on the stage. What
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: do we think? How did Tom Steyer do?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: He did good. I mean, he did.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 5: He has a message. He delivered it.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: It's a lot like Warren and Bernie's message.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: Very close.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: There's something interesting about a billionaire saying, tax me more.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 5: It's the Roosevelt traitor to their class argument, which Trump
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 5: pretended to be.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: A lot of eye contact. I'm not sure how I
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: feel about it. A lot of eye contact with me specifically.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, staring into your soul.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: Me and Tommy Sties were locking eyes all night long.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: Someone told him like, look, on that stage, you're not
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: talking to the other candidates or the audience. You're talking
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: right into that camera, which is, you know, the piece
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: of advice that you do give people who are prepping
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: for debate. But he took that advice and he ran
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: with it.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, in terms of just like success, right, along
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: the same lines as Andrew Yang, I mean, Tom Steyer
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: spent shitloads of money to run ads and get donors.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: $ 47 million. Got himself on the stage. So he had
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: a very expensive strategy. He executed it. And here he is. Yeah.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's also, I'm very glad that, that the
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: billionaire on that stage is not saying we need to
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: be nicer to billionaires.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: We need to be more moderate. We need to attack
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: the center. It's not the kind of.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: It's not Howard Schultz.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: It's not the, right. It's not Howard Schultz.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: It's not, I'm fiscally, I'm fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. It's,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: it's actually, I think a bet that basically you want what,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 4: it's implied, but it's basically saying you want what Elizabeth
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: Warren is offering, but you don't think she can win.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: Take a look at me. I'm a businessman like Trump.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but the tough, implied there that you don't think
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: she can win is because you have all the same
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: policy positions as her. Basically, you don't think she can
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: win because she's a woman. I mean, I'm not saying
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: Tom Steyer said that, but what I didn't get from
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: him last night is what is, why you and not,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, what specifically are you going
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: to do differently than the two of them since your
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: message is so similar? What, you know, what qualifications do
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: you have? I guess he said, you know, I started
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: a business. So if you like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: Warren's message and policies, but you like the idea of
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: a businessman in the White House, then I guess you
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: got Tom Stein.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: We like someone who can make the arguments they're making
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: from a, while pushing, while batting down the arguments that
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: they don't understand how the world works, right? That's sort of,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: that's the, I think the fair reading of it.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 5: I mean, we've had basically like a full day worth
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 5: of debates in this primary.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 13: Yeah.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 5: Like, hours at a time. And, like, with the exception
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 5: of Klobuchar and Pete tonight, almost no other candidate who's
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 5: not in the top three has had any success making
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 5: an argument for why them, why not the others. And so,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 5: the fact that Tom Sire did not do that only
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: does not mean that he is failing where others have succeeded.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 5: He's just doing as well as most everyone else in
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 5: the same tier he's in.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: Well, which brings me to the final question. Do we
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: think this debate, you know, will... Do we think this
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: debate will change the race in any way? Has this
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: changed the race or reshaped the race in any way?
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: You know, I do think it's notable that both Buttigieg
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: and Klobuchar came out swinging last night, and that's going
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: to get most of the attention today. Most of the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: headlines today are moderates fight back last night, which has
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: been what moderates have been trying to do for the
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: last three debates and haven't really done successfully until last night.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: So I do wonder if it was a bit more
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: of an important debate than usual.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 5: I think it's a preview for what's to come. I
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 5: think we see the race has been the exact same
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 5: place since the very beginning with the exception of Elizabeth
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 5: Warren rising from third or fourth to second. And now
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 5: we're seeing, I think what the campaign can look like.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 5: I think for the first time we've seen people land
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 5: a punch on Elizabeth Warren who otherwise has been untouched
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 5: and flawless. And I still think by any measure, she
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 5: was excellent last night, delivered her points, but there was
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: some weakness. You could see some cracks where people might
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: be able to exploit it over time. And so I
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 5: don't think this debate is going to change the poll numbers.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: But I think we know more about how the candidates
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: are thinking about the race than we have at any
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 5: point before now.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: I agree. Can I say.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 5: One more thing?
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: You sure can.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: I think the most important thing that happened last night
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: with the most consequences for the race is not what
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: happened in the debate. It's the release of the Q3
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 5: FEC reports.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: We haven't talked about that.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 5: Which showed Bernie Sanders with the most money, Elizabeth Warren
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: and Pete Buttigieg behind, but was still in the 20s
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: of millions of dollars. And Joe Biden, co-front runner, as
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 5: you called him, with less than $ 9 million, which is devastating.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: Pretty shocking stuff.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: Joe Biden's path to nomination is to be able to
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 5: organize and advertise in the Super Tuesday states. Because of
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 5: his high name recognition, how well known he is in
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 5: the party, and his broad base of support, his path
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 5: to nomination involves racking up delegates in everything that happens
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 5: after the first four states. And right now, he does
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 5: not have enough money to run a full campaign in
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 5: two of the four states, let alone four states and
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 5: everything that comes after. And he has shown zero ability
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 5: to raise money online. So he does not have the
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 5: capacity that a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or even
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 5: a Pete Buttigieg would have to refill his coffers. And
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: I think that is a fundamental game changer that's going
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 5: to cause the Biden community to make some very serious,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 5: very hard decisions about where he's.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: Going to play. If one of these candidates had just
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: bit the head off an Ellen doll like Ozzy Osbourne
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: and spit it out on stage, this thing would be over.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: That last question. Ellen.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: Who's your weirdest friend?
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: Skip climate. They're like, climate cheats? No. Reproductive race? No.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: Weirdest friend. Everyone say John McCain all at once. Skip
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: the rest of the question.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: John McCain and then for Cory Booker, someone who ate meat.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: Which Sarah Lazarus predicted verbatim.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: It was amazing.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: John, your wife Emily said that I'm her weirdest friend.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's always been true. That's always been true.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 5: You're all of our John McCain.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: I think that was part of your speech at our wedding.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: That's true. That's true. We're like when a turtle and
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: a rabbit become friends at the zoo.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: All right, everyone.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: Again, we will have NoPod Thursday because this pod is
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: out Wednesday. And then we will see you next week.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: senior producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: our sound engineer. Thanks to Carolyn Reston, Tanya Somanator, and
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: Katie Long for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: Elijah Cohn, Narmel Coney, and Yale Freed, and Milo Kim,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.