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Innovating in Aviation: How Michael Duke Is Redefining What's Possible · Commander's Intent

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever frozen in the key moment of making a critical decision?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's in business or in life, it can cost you everything.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Commander's Intent will teach and inspire you how to lead with clarity, courage, and purpose.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: So here's your host, retired Air Force Colonel, fighter pilot, and your leadership mentor, Derek Oaks.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, I'm Derek Oaks, and welcome to another episode of Commander's Intent.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with my co-host, Rob Powell, and our special guest today is Michael Duke, the CEO of DBT Aero.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll let him explain a little bit about that company.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're going to talk about today is innovation in aviation and the tough decisions you have to make in a very challenging market.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're trying to be innovative.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're trying to really expand what's in the art of the possible in the aviation.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do that in today's world?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what are some of the challenges with it overall?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, Michael, I'll let you introduce yourself and let you introduce your company and where you are as a company.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go from there.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's great to be with you.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: As you said, my name is Michael Duke.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the founder of DBT Aero, which stands for Double Boxtail.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: We have a very unique aircraft.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: You can see it here.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's a double box tail.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: So the wing and tail are actually joined, and that has some very unique aerodynamics that eliminate wing tip vortices.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: It increases laminar flow.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: We have a number of things that are very unique about the aircraft.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so as a result, it's very efficient.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: That efficiency then means you burn less fuel, and that energy can be used for something other than overcoming drag.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: You can use it to go faster, fly farther, fly higher, carry more.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: So it just really depends on what you want to do with all that extra energy that you're not using to overcome drag.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: I've been doing this for about eight years, and it's always quite a journey.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Aviation is an incredible, incredible industry.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And yet bringing new aircraft to market is definitely a journey.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: And we're very excited to be where we are.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: We've built four prototypes.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Three of them are subscales.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: One of those is 3D printed, which was pretty exciting.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: And we also have a manned prototype, which has an FAA airworthiness certificate for research and development.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's great to be testing that aircraft as well.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: So our focus today is moving to a commercial product.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: And we are focused on using the mosaic rule in order to get the aircraft to market more quickly than going through part 23.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Amendment 64 is fantastic.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: That does help speed things for the Part 23 certification.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yet Mosaic is still a quicker path to a flying certified aircraft, and that's the direction we're headed at the moment.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: The aircraft right now, is it a two-seater?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a four-seater?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a 50-passenger?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is your target or your short-term, medium-term, and long-term target with the design?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Our primary focus is getting to a Sessna caravan size aircraft.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that's effectively a nine passenger or without the seats, it's cargo.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: But we believe that size aircraft is badly needed around the world.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: The operating costs for regional cargo, the feeder network, as they call it, the operating costs are very high.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so trying to keep a feeder network profitable is quite a challenge.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: As I said earlier, our fuel burn is much, much less.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: So our total operating cost is about half of what the operating cost of something the size of a caravan is.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: That translates into additional profitability, a lot more flexibility.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: You can actually open new routes because the plane doesn't have to fly completely full and still be profitable.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: So the goal is to get to that aircraft, and we do that through a subskill prototype, which just happens to be the perfect size to commercialize for mosaic.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: After that, nine passenger, the goal is to move up to commercial transport aircraft, 19 to you know, 72, 90 passenger.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Again, there's a huge market for regional transportation, and we need to get the cost down.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: The long-haul flights are fairly profitable.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you think about it, where is the most efficiency for an aircraft?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's when it's high and fast.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so once you climb, which is very expensive and you get to your cruise altitude, the further you fly, the lower your cost per seat mile.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: So you fill up a big plane and you fly really far, and it actually turns out to be very cost effective.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: But when you fly short and you're just climbing and immediately descending, you're not very efficient.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so it becomes quite expensive to operate the shorter routes.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: Those shorter routes need a different technology.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: That technology is what we have.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: So you're able then to fly shorter routes more economically and reopen all of those regional routes that have been slowly disappearing over the last.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you look at the aircraft, you look at you said Assesta Caravan, Assesta Caravan or a Kodiak and a twin otter.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of these aircraft, they're very simple aircraft.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: The design has not changed.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's what I would have imagined that my grandparents would have ever stepped foot on an aircraft.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's what I would have imagined my grandparents flying in the 40s and 50s.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: It really hasn't changed.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: The engine technology is better, the avionics are better, the comforts inside are a little bit better, and the pilot vehicle interface is better.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: But the cost to get that aircraft up in the air and to its destination and how it's designed really hasn't changed much.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: What you guys have designed is something really innovative.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I hear exactly what you're saying.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: People talk about these the vertical lift and the air taxis.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you said something that's really important that the climb portion is very expensive.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Getting it once you get up to cruise, that's when you're making money as an airliner.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you're making money in any aircraft.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: But getting there is expensive.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at a vertical lift aircraft, I think it takes 10 times the lift to climb vertically than it does to accelerate out on a runway and climb up just because of the amount of force, the gravity, gravitational force that you're having to overcome to get up at altitude and then accelerate once you're up at altitude instead of doing all that combined.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very, very costly.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, when you have a lot of places in the country where short haul aviation is worth the squeeze.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So changing the technology, going away from that great design of Sestin Caravan or Kodiak and doing something that's a little bit more innovative is has been needed for a long time.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: It absolutely has.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: And as you say, the design of the Kodiak, the caravan, others, you know, it's very functional.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: It served its purpose.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: One of the members of our team actually was an engineer on the Cessna Caravan design team and moved into the caravan manufacturing team.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: But he gives us some of the insight.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: He said, we started basically with a 172 and then scaled it up and put a PT6 in.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was very simple.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was very quick because that's what FedEx needed.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: As we look at things today, we need something different.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: The regional carriers, commercial as well as the small carriers, the feeder network, the cargo folks, they're getting squeezed.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Their margins are in some cases, you know, three to five percent.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: You look at certain parts of the world, the regional airlines keep going out of business, or the government bails them out because they just don't have the margins.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: You need either bigger planes that are going to fly farther, which is outside the regional market, or you need aircraft that are far more efficient so that they can be profitable.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, everybody wants to fly rather than drive.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: And if you could fly and avoid all of the gridlock and you could do that very inexpensively, why would you not do it?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: The problem is you can't do it inexpensively because the short hops are so expensive in the aircraft we have.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really about finding something different that meets the needs that we have today.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: The aircraft we have today met the needs of the past, but they don't meet the needs that we have today or going into the future.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like you know, you've identified a market need that you've kind of figured out a good way to put these together.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen exactly what you're talking about within I believe citation tens is my last jet that I ever flew.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we made our money doing New York to LA or New York to San Francisco.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: We made a lot of money doing that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: We lost money when I'm flying from Mentalena to Tampa, Florida.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a good, not a good trip for us.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, our customer, every company needs that kind of flexibility, even in the private chip market, right?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to be flying citation tens everywhere that your customers want to go just because they want to fly.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: So let me ask you this: what's the biggest challenge you have right now?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is it technological?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Is it regulational?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is it you know what's the piece that's causing you the most consternation at this point in your journey?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: Let me answer that one second.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: You made a comment about the long haul.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: As I was talking to a charter operator, his comment to me was his average load was 1.4 passengers.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: What average load is 1.4 passengers, and they typically flew 600 nautical miles or less.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: When you're flying those shorter routes, a jet is very difficult to be profitable unless you just charge a fortune for it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so, how many people take the jet on the shorter routes?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Not many.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really where something you don't need to be pressurized, you don't need to fly high if you're flying a shorter rep.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's really where we're going after the market, as well as the fact that, you know, an introductory plane, a mosaic aircraft, is just playing cool to fly.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: We were talking before this about flying, you know, low and fast.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, imagine flying well over 200 knots.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: We won't say how much, but the mosaic regulation limits you to 250.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll say that's a bummer because we could go faster.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: But imagine flying well over 200 knots and you're only using, call it eight gallons an hour.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that suddenly now means that you're at the point where you're competing with an automobile for efficiency, but you're flying three to five times faster, depending on the road conditions.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it's pretty amazing.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: The thing that brings us the most consternation is the fact that it's unbelievable.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen, everybody's seen in aviation, many, many different concepts touted.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: And the companies start, we'll put money in, and then the companies go out of business.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so the biggest issue in aviation seems to be finding that backing that brings the company to the marketplace.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Very few companies make it commercially, not because they don't have a good product, but because it's just very hard to get through all of the certification, get the customers to believe that it's going to work, and then develop all of the systems to support the customers, support the aircraft, and then continue to grow and scale the company.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Cirrus has done a great job.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: You look at Cirrus, they didn't exist, you know, what, 60 years ago?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's a great story to see somebody like that come out with a sleek new design and be very, very successful with it.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I applaud their efforts.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's a number of companies, but it's hard to get to market.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's really the big thing.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: The technology, we've proven the technology multiple ways.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: We have, as I said before, flying prototypes.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: We have a physics-based model, we have a simulation, we have the old-fashioned, you know, spreadsheet analysis that you go through, a designer goes through.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: You name it, we've done CFD computational fluid dynamics.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: We actually are currently working with one of the world's leading Formula One aerodynamicists.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: So if you think about needing to understand airflow, Formula One is one of those places where you really need to understand airflow, keep the car, you know, on the track, in the corners, you know, all the different things.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, this particular individual is like, this is a really cool design.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: I really want to branch out and move more into aviation.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I love what I'm doing in F1, but it's time to expand.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're actually working with him and his company to make some modifications and refine the design.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: And we're also bringing in AI to optimize the design.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: So if you look at aircraft design in the 40s, the 50s, the 90s, the early 2000s, there were a certain set of tools that you had to design things.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, you talk to somebody who spent their life designing aircraft, and they had a set of tools they work with.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Those tools are changing.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: We have tools today that were not available then.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Now, we have a unique insight, but even the insight that we had 10 years ago, you know, we have better tools today, and we're able to refine the design and get even better performance than we're already have told people we have, because we can continue to use better tools and continue to refine the design, continue to make things more customized and perfect for each particular use case.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that's really interesting.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: You think about how AI has changed from a software perspective, has changed the world in which we live.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like a lot of the work that we do from a research and a data analysis and the data gathering perspective is dramatically changing.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: We don't even fully understand how quickly that's changing.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: The big question is how is that changing when the rubber meets the road?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: How am I actually applying that to tangible physical things like an airplane and like manufacturing, like design?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: How is that actually working?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even really thought about it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna change aviation, but the way you just described it there, I think it's pretty fascinating how much it's changing even how we design an aircraft and how we put together an aircraft, how we plan on manufacturing it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go back to one of the things you said earlier, how the numbers are unbelievable.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna have you share some unbelievable numbers with us.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about the airspeed, how the FAA limits how fast something can go.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: In my background of, you know, flying little airplanes, what I tell people is they say, is it worth it to buy an airplane?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go, and is it worth it to fly across country in this little airplane?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll say, No, it's not.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because to your point earlier, where you make the money is when you get up to cruise and you're able to zip across the country.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what I say is anything under 500 miles, it's easier to fly a private aircraft.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: A little single engine, if you're going 200 miles an hour, 170 knots to 200 knots in that little private airplane, it actually is more feasible from a time perspective and a financial perspective because you don't have to deal with TSA.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to deal with, you know, loading luggage and potentially losing your bag and all the hassles of going through a big airport.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I go straight up to a small little FBO or wherever my aircraft's parked, I climb in and I fly there.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can do it in two to three hours, that's a quick little trip and it's so handy and simple.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I go past that and it's not quick and simple.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of the market that you're trying to attack with this, making that even more efficient, which I get real excited about.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: But talk to me about like runways, because like here in Utah, I think Utah's a terrible environment for runways.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have enough runways.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: The state is not laid out well, and a lot of cities are not advocates of aviation.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: They don't understand how they're quite squeezing their population, they're not forward-thinking enough to say, how can I use aviation to better my city, to better my county?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so there aren't a lot of good runways, and the runways that exist are not well maintained, and there are a lot of barriers to making aviation great again.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what are some of the things that the the double boxtail does for you on shortened runways and speeds and efficiency, you know, cost per flying hour?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any of those numbers off the top of your head?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: The runway issue is interesting because people look at highways as infrastructure.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: And you have a highway tax which you pay as part of your fuel.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't think about having to pay extra unless you're, you know, a trucker and that's you pay some extra there.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: But for the average consumer, it just comes out of the fuel as well as your general tax.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's infrastructure, and the city needs to build more roads.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: We always complain, you know, there's growth, and why didn't the home builder, you know, get a wider road put in, whatever.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: But we see it as infrastructure and it just gets built.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Airports, people don't seem to think is infrastructure, and yet it really is.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: There are so many reports, so much research has been done that shows the multiplier effect to an economy.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: And when you have good air service, you end up with a more profitable talent.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's more business that comes in and out of town.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so, particularly, think about an aircraft that allows you to fly further, faster, and very cheaply.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: There was, I believe, an economist named Marchetti who came up with uh something he calls the Marchetti constant and basically says that since the time of the Romans, the amount of time that people are willing to travel is about a half an hour.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so as the travel improved, and you then went from walking to riding a donkey to a horse to a railroad car, a steam engine, whatever, the cities grew and became larger because you could travel further and still get to where you needed to go.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, in big cities today, you travel a lot longer than 30 minutes.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's mostly sitting in traffic, not actually traveling.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: You're just stuck in traffic.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: But imagine now that you have your 30-minute travel, and that 30 minutes equates to a hundred miles or more, and you can literally travel for nearly the same cost as driving, but you're a hundred miles away.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what kind of where would you live?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: How often would you visit the kids?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in Salt Lake City.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: I have kids that are up in the Tacoma, Washington area, and some others that are down in Phoenix.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I have a daughter in the Portland area.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Why would I not go visit the kids and the grandkids?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: I know my wife is dying to visit the grandkids.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: She just left this morning for a trip up to northeastern Montana.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: So she complains.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, Oh, I'm gonna spend my day traveling.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, why don't you just hurry up and fly me up there?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: So when you have something that is more affordable, that's safer, we don't talk about that a lot, but our aircraft, we actually have a patent for spin resistance.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: It is very safe to fly.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so we don't need a parachute.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: We will likely put a parachute in because people seem to want the parachute.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Ceres have done a great job marketing that a parachute makes the plane safer.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: You don't see parachutes on you know bigger planes, but on the small ones, they've done a good job of marketing that the parachute makes it safer.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: So we will likely put a parachute in, but we're safer simply by design because it doesn't have that stall spin tendency.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about, I'm gonna bring back one of the 10 questions I asked you in my last little diatribe there.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is runway, comparative weights.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's call it a 3,000-pound aircraft.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I think you guys are shooting for less than a 2,000-pound aircraft for the Initial One.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of runway length are you looking at in you know, standard day, you know, 15 degrees at sea level?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And how does it compare to your Cessna 172?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: The double boxtail and the laminar flow fuselage and all of the other cool physics that we have built into the aircraft provide us with about 30%, a little more than 30% additional lift per given wingspan.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: So for an aircraft of the same wingspan, we actually have 30% more lift.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's a very slippery plane, so it wants to, you know, on a landing, it wants to really float.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so we can slow it down, and that's really what you need to do is slow it down as you're coming in.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: But in terms of getting off the ground, we can get in and out of the same runways that a 172 would work quite a bit shorter, in fact.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: But we also, the unique design, because it's low drag, not only does the low drag mean you can get off the ground more quickly, but it also means that you can fly higher speeds in cruise.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: So the design works in both ways, both on the low end as well as on the high end.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know old airports, 5,000 foot runway was a fairly standard runway for the older airports before aircraft started getting really big.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of those airports have become just small general aviation airports that they can take smaller at sea level.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're okay.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of jets can get in out.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're very small jets, but really you can't carry much of.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Load out of a small airport like that.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are you going to be able to?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so it effectively closes down where you can fly or limits where you can fly in today's aviation as aircraft get bigger and heavier.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Are you guys going to effectively expand the number of runaways I can go into with a double box?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you 30% more lift means you're going to get off the ground quicker, you're going to get off the ground at a slower airspeed, which means I'm able to take off in a shorter distance.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to know at some point what that distance equates to.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Am I going to be able to use 3,000-foot runways here in the Rocky Mountains?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Am I going to be able to stop it on those shorter runways effectively?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Comparable is the question.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: What's comparable?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is a 172 comparable?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: I would say no.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at the mosaic aircraft, they all are targeting much shorter runways.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Most of them will be able to easily get in and out of a 1500-foot runway.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really our target as well.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: So our target is to be the fastest, the most fuel efficient for the speed mosaic aircraft in the world.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: We really want to raise the bar and become the Cirrus, if you will, of the mosaic era.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Cirrus is a great aircraft company, and we want to follow their playbook and leverage it not only for the two-seat market, but also if you look at the caravan, the Kodiak, other utility aircraft, most of those actually can get into fairly short runways.
• 23:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: By design.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: They were designed for feeder networks, the you know, regional flights.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: What we're trying to add to that is efficiency and speed.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: So our aircraft for that same size will be faster and also more efficient.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Benchmarked the C208B, the grand caravan.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: And we actually should be able to carry somewhere in the neighborhood, you know, 35 to 40 percent more volume, about 50% more weight, and yet we use about one third to one half of their fuel.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's significant.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sticking to that's significant for FedEx, that's significant for all those little carriers, but it's really significant, I think, even in the general aviation market, where I look at because people ask me all the time, hey, can you fly my family down to St.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: George?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Can you fly them to Colorado?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I recently flew in a bonanza down from bountiful Utah down to Dallas.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's fun, but it gets painful after a while because it's not that fast and it's an expensive cost per hour.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: If I can get an aircraft that can easily carry six to eight passengers at the cost of an aircraft that currently carries, you know, two to three passengers, that's a huge game changer.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because now you're talking about moving a family.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're talking about a couple of friends.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, let's fly to LA or let's fly to Vegas for the weekend, or let's fly to wherever, and it becomes much more tenable.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden, getting on Southwest is a waste of money.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Getting on Delta in their very comfortable A220s is a waste of money because this approach is going to cost you a lot less money and it's going to be a lot less hassle than having to go through TSA and the airlines.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's the nine passenger cargo size aircraft will be exactly what you're talking about.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: The focus is we can optimize for cargo, and the volume will be a particular size.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that's nice about our aircraft geometry is that the fuselage is fairly bulbous.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: It likes to grow.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: So as the aircraft gets larger, you have more space on the interior.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: That gives you more room for cargo, but it also gives you more room for people.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: And as a result, when most people get into an aircraft, it's pretty tight.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: And they don't like being in such a tight, you know, fuselage.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: But if the fuselage is 72 inches across, suddenly now it's like, wow, this is actually pretty large.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: This is pretty comfortable.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: And if you then are able to still get the efficiency so that it's very cost effective, now you open up a lot more charter opportunities.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right now, everybody's moving to Jetford charter because you know the King Airs and the others just they're not as fun to for people to fly in.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're very small, they're tight, they get bounced around.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's another interesting thing about the design, is it actually is more stable.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have adverse yaw.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: It flies through the bumps very smoothly.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: And as I said earlier, it doesn't spin.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you start putting all these pieces together, and flying down low isn't as much of a problem.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: And particularly now with the economics, you could have actually a charter flight where people are moving around at the lower altitudes very, very comfortably and it's quiet.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: That size aircraft will have an electric-ducted fan.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: So we're developing a hybrid electric system.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it'll be a very small kind of APU on zeroli power unit that runs on Jet A, uh, specifically because if you're an FBO owner, which I used to be, you want something that fuels up quickly, uses your existing infrastructure, and then it goes away, and you can grab the next airplane.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: So this is perfect for an FBO.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: It comes in, you fill it with some Jet A, it uses it very, very little.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: It just kind of sips the Jet A, generates electricity.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Electricity drives the electric ducted fan.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: You have the thrust of a fan jet, but it's done electrically with a small APU.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it's something that will be very quiet and yet very powerful.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you end up then being much more friendly to the neighbors because you don't have all the noise of a jet, all the noise of the prop blades, et cetera.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: So part of this we have to think about the neighbors.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: People are getting rid of the airports because the neighbors move in and then they say, Oh, it's too noisy.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you knew there was an airport there when you moved in, and you actually had to sign, you know, a waiver on your FHA loan or whatever, saying, I know I'm, you know, near an airport.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't change the fact that you're not happy about all the noise.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: So being a good neighbor and reducing the noise is certainly going to make aviation a lot more attractive.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: And think about how many people drive past an airport, a small GA airport, to go to a commercial airport.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Wouldn't it be great to have all those small GA airports with commercial service, even if it's charter service?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, at least they're having some sort of service where they don't have to buy the plane to become a pilot, though we hope most people want to do that.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, just think about being able to go to your local airport that you drive past every day and get you know some kind of taxi service that runs you, you know, three, four, five, a thousand miles away.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, Michael, I'm totally sold on the operations.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I look, I'm excited to have an airplane.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: I flew almost 2,000 hours in seven caravanes.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like saying, Yeah, if you can get something like that, then fast for more efficient dollars.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm all over it when he talks about that.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Eight gallons an hour, you know, talking 50 pounds an hour since that's what I would tell him to do 120.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't talk to over 200.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: So great.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: But you did mention earlier that the difficulty that you've got right now is financial, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: How do you get the backing?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: How do you get the venture capitalists?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: How do you get the money in there?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'll turn that to you as the boss.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: What's your strategy then for getting this out in front of out in front of investors in a way that will make them, you know, because I'm an aviation guy, I get it, it's great, but I just don't have the money.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you get out in front of these people that have the money that maybe aren't?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean in the aviation market.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: How do you check that?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: So part of it is the early investors typically invest in the team, in the people.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: They're betting on the people a lot less on the technology.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: We know the technology works, and we've continued to find different ways to validate and prove the technology, everything from the various models, simulation, CFP, as well as building and flying prototypes.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: We know the technology works.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's no question about the technology.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: So it really comes down to then the people side.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: And we've spent the last year building the team side.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: We have people who used to work for Archer aircraft, for example, Airbus, Boeing, Cessna, Textron.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: We brought on a Formula One aerodynamicist.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: We have a woman who worked for McLaren and doing AI-based manufacturing.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: We have a gentleman who is a patent holder on electric ducted fan technology.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: So bringing on the people who have the experience, boom, supersonic, Gulf Stream, but you go down the list, it's a who's who of aviation, as well as bringing in motorsports and other things that expand us beyond aviation.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: So the focus has been most recently on expanding the team that you know both are excited that they get it, as well as have the ability to push this thing forward given their networks and their history, their resumes, their expertise.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: That gold investor, the big whale, shows up and says, I love your concept, I love your team, and they invest.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: What are your next steps?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you say the technology's ready, you're ready to start finishing the research and development of it.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get it, you know, now it's airworthiness certificate for research and development.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get it to where it's an aircraft that you can start marketing to the public?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: We actually have most of the vendors that we need, the parts suppliers lined up.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: We've been working on that very quietly the past year as well.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: So we have those folks lined up, ready to go.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: We continue to evolve the design and optimize for the particular engine, the propulsion system, the avionics.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're going through all of those selections, working through all of those, getting things ready.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, we have money, but we always want more to accelerate faster.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you're out in the woods and you've got a campfire, do you want a little tiny campfire if you're cold, or do you want a bigger one?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, you want a bigger one, so you pour more gas on the fire.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really what the investors do is they pour gas on the fire.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: So we continue to work away, knocking off the milestones.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: At the same time, more gas on the fire accelerates the burn.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: So we're excited about moving faster and getting it to market faster.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: The key next step is to build the conforming prototype, which goes through ASTM compliance for the FAA certification.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right now, I'm on the Mosaic F.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: So we're actually writing the rules for the certification, and that won't even be available from the FAA until hopefully July.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: It should be done one year from the date they announced the rule, all of the compliance work.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: So hopefully that'll be available in July.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: We actually then are able to begin going through the compliance at that point.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we need to build the next prototype and take it through the compliance process, at which point we can then move into manufacturing.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, we continue to line up all of the people and the parts behind the scenes to get that ready.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, the goal is to be ready to take it through certification as well.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, awesome.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when do you hope to have your first customer?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we have our first customer.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: We actually have people that have put down, purchased a delivery position.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Those are always available.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: Or we're happy to sell you a delivery position.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: You can get in line for the aircraft at the same time.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: No, we're really looking for those big customers as well, the fleet customers.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: And we have a number of letters of intent from fleets as well, flight schools and others that are looking to purchase a fleet.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: If you think about a flight club, it's great to have several different airplanes in your flight club for different types of missions.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: But what's going to draw you to your flight club?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is it the 152 or is it the Cirus SR22T?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, everybody wants to be able to go rent that really cool plane.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we think that putting our aircraft into a flight club is going to bring a lot of attention and a lot of new members to that flight club.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: So part of it is getting the word out and getting this into the hands of individuals, fractional owners, flight clubs, flight schools, as well as the feeder operators, the cargo operators, the charter companies that are looking at the aircraft beyond that larger aircraft.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting if you look at the history of the 737 when Boeing was looking to develop that aircraft, it actually came out and looked different than the earlier aircraft.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: And they haven't, they have a patent.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: But a number of the airlines were concerned like, yeah, this is a little different, but it promised 20% greater operating savings.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: So turns out LaFonza said, okay, we'll be your launch customer.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: United agreed to be a launch customer if they stretched it and they stretched it to, I don't recall the exact numbers, like 114 seats instead of the you know 99-ish that the original design.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: So those were the two launch customers.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, when it launched and they began taking deliveries, guess who had a 20% operating savings on all of the regional routes that they were flying?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so suddenly everybody else is like, you know, we can't operate as cheaply.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: We need to get some of these 737s.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: But they couldn't get them because uh, you know, the launch customers had sucked up all of the delivery positions.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Southwest comes out to actually build an entire airline on the 737 platform, and so you look at the moat that not only Boeing developed, it took until September of last year for Airbus to catch up.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: And if it hadn't been for the 737 Max, the 737 would still be the best-selling aircraft of all time.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, quite a moat that Boeing developed, but also it was a moat for a decade or more for the airlines that adopted the more efficient aircraft early.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: So we think we'll see the same thing with this aircraft.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, as we approach the commercialization of that larger aircraft, you're gonna see people that jump in and lock up those early delivery positions because you know they want their cargo operation or their charter operation to have an advantage over everybody else in the industry.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thanks.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had one last question about the FAA.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it used to be you had light sport aircraft, slow 13 something pounds, you know, 1300 something, 50 pounds or something like that.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then they were very limited on what you could do with them and two passengers.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then you had experimental, where experimental was also very limited what you could do with an experimental aircraft commercially, and people shied away from and commercial, you know, experimental for the audience.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: What that really was was it was not built on a factory assembly line with certified processes, you know, like vans aircraft.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: They build a kit and they give you all the parts to the aircraft, and then you put it together, you know, following their instructions.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: You put it together.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of aircraft fell under this the experimental category simply because it wasn't a certified, an FAA certified aircraft.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, aircraft that were manufactured in Europe, for example, that were certified in Europe, imported to the United States, they were experimental.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a number of like Cicata has a number of examples of that.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: IAR Eastern Bloc countries that manufacture aircraft, they're very good aircraft, they're serve very well, but they're experimental, and you can't use them the same way that you can for that.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: So having the mosaic, which expanded quite a bit the categories and what you can do with these entry type of aircraft, has been a big benefit.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: But how is the FAA?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked about working with the FA, how is the FAA becoming a help less than a hindrance?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then where do you think they need to change beyond what they're already doing?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: We've had a great relationship with the FAA.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: So while there's a lot of people who are concerned and the FAA has been a hindrance, for us they've been really amazing.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: They've been really great to work with.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: Certainly, we have to demonstrate all the things that are different and unique about our aircraft.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: But when we explain to them, you know, this is a tail surface, this is a horizontal stabilizer, this is a, you know, there's where our rudder's located, et cetera.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: Once they see it and they understand what we have, it's been very, very easy to work with the FAA.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: So we expect the same thing going forward.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think part of it is they want to see innovative designs come to the marketplace to improve aviation, to make aviation more affordable, not just for the average GA pilot, but for flight training.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: We need more pilots.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: And if you can get an aircraft that is more affordable to market, you'll see more people go through the pilot training.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: We think that our aircraft, which has retractable gear, is very fast.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Could it be a basic trainer?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but that's not what it's really designed for.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: But if you think about the jump that the pilot community takes between their typical trainer, and then they hop into a small jet as they become an airline captain or a first officer, that's a big jump.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you have an aircraft that is much faster, retractable gear, even a small turbine, which is available out there.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Now you're doing training in an aircraft that teaches you to get ahead of the plane, to plan ahead.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: You're building turbine time.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so we think this is a great transition aircraft for advanced training in particular.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing is the FAA with Mosaic learned a lot from the first light sport aircraft rule.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: And the goal, I believe, that they're working toward is how do we make aircraft safer, more affordable, and get them to market faster without sacrificing the safety that they have always been focused on.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so because the light sport rule had been so successful in being safer than experimental amateur built and approaching the safety of the certified aircraft, they felt that it was time to loosen things up and expand the rule.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you'll see that continue to expand over time.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're seeing interest still in experimental.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: We have folks that want to buy a kit version of the plane.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: And our numbers show that a kit version of the plane with an off-the-shelf less than 200 horsepower engine.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, 180 horse, 160 horsepower engine could be approaching 350 miles per hour.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it's all about now the individual saying, you know, I want a speedster, and so I'm gonna do a few things to hop it up.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: We can give you that platform and go have fun.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: And we will learn, we look forward to working with all of these folks.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what did you do here?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: What did you do there?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: Let's work together and we can bring a lot of those new innovations to the production line to make a better aircraft for the general population.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: At the same time, you know, we want an aircraft that is manufactured for the general population, but you want those folks who are going to continue to dabble and try new things.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're gonna make a kit version available for those people that want to do exactly that.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad the FAA is working with you.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I always tell people, you know, the government workers are not the enemy.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the structure is the enemy, sometimes the bureaucracy and how it's organized is the enemy.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: But most people work for the government, they're just trying to do the right thing.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're red-blooded Americans who want our country to do well, and they're working within a system.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you have to teach them and coach them how to say yes and get them to see how this is in their interest to say yes, but they're there to help us.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's a question of getting them to help us and helping them understand that they're there to help us and the nation at large.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, Michael, I appreciate the conversation.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: We could talk the three of us, I know, could talk aviation all day long and talk about this.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's exciting to me.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the a number of years ago, I said there really aren't any major innovations in aviation.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: We know what the different wings are.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: We know what the, you know, our engine technology is getting incrementally better.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: We keep setting on a tube-shaped design for an aircraft because even though it's some compromise, it's the overall best compromise.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's exciting to see a departure from that to prove me wrong.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: That hey, there actually are different things we can do with the wing and different things we can do with the wing combined with a new thought on the fuselage to where we can expand aviation and make it even more affordable, more accessible, and more effective than it already is.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mind driving a car, but if I can fly an airplane, I'm never gonna drive a car.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Always want to be above everybody on the highway getting stunked at every you know, stoplight and accident while I zip on bioming my aircraft.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for what you guys are doing and all the best of luck.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who have a question who want to talk directly to Mike, you can reach out to me at asteritnow.com or you can go to their website.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: That Mike, you want to say the name of the website?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or so the lower portion of my video here, it's dbt.arrow.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: So Delta Bravo Tango dot alpha echo romeo oscar.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: So very simple.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to see the two seat aircraft that we announced at Airventure last summer, that website is dbt2, the number two, lx.com.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: Dbt2LX.com, and you can see the specs for that aircraft.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're interested, reach out.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: We can get you a delivery position or you can sign a letter of intent and get in line either either way.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: I encourage you to go there.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you have money burning a hole in your pocket and you want to reserve a place in line to get one of these aircraft, I can always go faster.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I fly, I think, can I not get about 50 miles an hour more out of this thing?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Every plane I fly, doesn't matter how fast I'm going, I want to go a little bit faster.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm grateful that Michael and his team are figuring out how to make us go faster and allow us to go faster.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us for another episode of Commander's Intend to help us to all become better decision makers as we analyze different markets and different challenges in the marketplace and what each of these marketplaces face as their struggles and their opportunities to become all better decision makers for better results.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it for today's episode of Commander's Intend Podcast.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Head on over to Apple Podcasts iTunes or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will be entered in a grand prize drawing to win a$25,000 private exclusive leadership coaching package with Derek Oakes himself.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: So head on over to Commanders Inten Podcast.com and pick up a free copy of Derek's Leadership Guide and join us on the next episode.