Latest / Overwhelmed Working Woman: Boost Productivity, Master Time Management, Overcome Overwhelm & Stop People Pleasing / #197| How to Reclaim Your Financial Freedom and Live Big

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#197| How to Reclaim Your Financial Freedom and Live Big · Overwhelmed Working Woman: Boost Productivity, Master Time Management, Overcome Overwhelm & Stop People Pleasing

• 0:00
  Michelle Gauthier: If something unexpected happened tomorrow, would you feel confident managing your money on your own?
• 0:05
  Michelle Gauthier: You're listening to Overwhelmed Working Woman, the podcast that helps you be more calm and more productive by doing less.
• 0:13
  Michelle Gauthier: I'm your host, Michelle Gauthier, a former Overwhelmed Working Woman and current life coach.
• 0:18
  Michelle Gauthier: On this show, we unpack the stress and pressure that today's working woman experiences.
• 0:23
  Michelle Gauthier: And in each episode, you'll get a strategy to bring more calm, ease, and relaxation to your life.
• 0:32
  Michelle Gauthier: Hi, friends.
• 0:32
  Michelle Gauthier: Thanks for joining.
• 0:33
  Michelle Gauthier: I've got a great episode for you today.
• 0:35
  Michelle Gauthier: Today I'm joined by Steph Wagner, and she is the author of the powerful brand new book, literally coming out today, called Fly: A Woman's Guide to Financial Freedom and Building a Life You Love.
• 0:47
  Michelle Gauthier: Her story is really real and pretty common, sadly.
• 0:53
  Michelle Gauthier: She had a background in finance.
• 0:55
  Michelle Gauthier: She had a high-powered career, and she decided to stay home for a couple years to raise her family, and her marriage ended unexpectedly, and she realized that she had slowly given away her financial autonomy and had to totally rebuild from the ground up.
• 1:12
  Michelle Gauthier: And in this episode, she shares with us why so many smart, capable women still feel intimidated by money and the hidden costs of just letting your partner handle it.
• 1:23
  Michelle Gauthier: Even if you stay married forever.
• 1:25
  Michelle Gauthier: And how to go from being financially dependent to financially free one step at a time.
• 1:31
  Michelle Gauthier: So even if you're not going through a major life change and you're in a happy relationship, this is a great conversation that I think every woman needs to hear.
• 1:39
  Michelle Gauthier: Okay, so let's get started.
• 1:41
  Michelle Gauthier: Steph, thank you so much for being here today.
• 1:43
  Michelle Gauthier: I want to jump in right away and say that I loved your book, and I think the audience is really gonna love to hear about it too.
• 1:51
  Michelle Gauthier: I loved that the book was part memoir, like a real vulnerable, honest one, not the one where you're like, oh, this is just surface level stuff.
• 1:59
  Michelle Gauthier: And then a complete guide for financial freedom.
• 2:02
  Michelle Gauthier: I love a story in a book, and I love a workbook, and this book is sort of the perfect combination of both of those.
• 2:08
  Michelle Gauthier: I took it on vacation with me and I read the whole thing on the two flights I had for my trip.
• 2:12
  Michelle Gauthier: So thank you for writing it.
• 2:14
  Michelle Gauthier: I think the audience is gonna love hearing your story, and I'm so excited to have you on.
• 2:19
  Steph Wagner: Well, thank you, Michelle.
• 2:20
  Steph Wagner: It's such an honor to be here.
• 2:22
  Steph Wagner: And your words mean a lot to me because, you know, I learned pretty early in my journey of rebuilding my career, to be honest.
• 2:30
  Steph Wagner: It took a while.
• 2:31
  Steph Wagner: But as I began to really work to rebuild my career, I learned I've got to be raw and vulnerable and honest if I'm gonna ask other people to do the same that I'm working with, right?
• 2:42
  Steph Wagner: If I and that's hard.
• 2:44
  Steph Wagner: That was it's easy now because I really have seen the benefits and the beauty that can be created when we are authentic and true to who we really are in every aspect of our lives.
• 2:55
  Steph Wagner: But I grew up in a German family.
• 2:57
  Steph Wagner: Like we didn't talk about anything and we we just sugarcoated and we walked around with a smile on our face and we had to look perfect.
• 3:04
  Steph Wagner: And, you know, so using that muscle was difficult.
• 3:07
  Steph Wagner: But, you know, there was a real pivotal moment when I began to write and I began to throw my work out into the outside world where I saw these comments pour in of gratitude for being real.
• 3:17
  Steph Wagner: And so when I wrote this book, I was like, I've gotta do it.
• 3:20
  Steph Wagner: I've got to show the world that we're not perfect, we're all just doing the best we can.
• 3:25
  Steph Wagner: And, you know, I'm sure I'll get judged in some regards, right?
• 3:29
  Steph Wagner: Like some people may, but that's okay.
• 3:31
  Steph Wagner: Cause yeah, you know, at the end of the day, we know who we are and we've got to be true to who ourselves.
• 3:37
  Steph Wagner: And and so thank you for your kind words because that was really my intent.
• 3:41
  Steph Wagner: And and then also, you know, if if I can do this, you can too, right?
• 3:46
  Michelle Gauthier: Yeah.
• 3:47
  Michelle Gauthier: Yeah.
• 3:47
  Michelle Gauthier: Well, you nailed it.
• 3:49
  Michelle Gauthier: You did think if that was your intent, you did an amazing job.
• 3:52
  Michelle Gauthier: And there were so many things.
• 3:54
  Michelle Gauthier: Like I said, I was on a plane, so I kept like folding the edge of the corners of the pages that I wanted to talk about.
• 4:00
  Michelle Gauthier: There were so many things that I wanted to ask you about or wanted you to share with the audience.
• 4:04
  Michelle Gauthier: But before we jump into that, could you just tell them for people who haven't read your book yet what it's about and why you created it?
• 4:15
  Steph Wagner: Yeah.
• 4:15
  Steph Wagner: So, you know, my journey, like we all have a story, right?
• 4:19
  Steph Wagner: We all have our journeys of of, and I'm so fortunate that my life's journey really ultimately led to my mission, which is to help empower women around their financial lives.
• 4:30
  Steph Wagner: And that journey started way back when I started my career.
• 4:34
  Steph Wagner: I loved finance.
• 4:36
  Steph Wagner: I loved math.
• 4:37
  Steph Wagner: I didn't know that people didn't.
• 4:39
  Steph Wagner: I didn't know that women didn't.
• 4:41
  Steph Wagner: And I got into this amazing career of, you know, investment banking and private equity.
• 4:46
  Steph Wagner: And I think and a frankly, a career that's incredibly hard to have a family.
• 4:51
  Steph Wagner: And I discovered that a couple of years in as I began to have my family.
• 4:55
  Steph Wagner: And, you know, I'll tell you this pivotal moment.
• 4:58
  Steph Wagner: It's in the book, but it just I think it serves up this moment where life began to change.
• 5:03
  Steph Wagner: I was asked to get on a Cessna to go look at a deal in rural Alabama.
• 5:08
  Steph Wagner: And at the time I was vice president of a private equity fund, didn't even appreciate what an amazing career I was, you know, creating.
• 5:17
  Steph Wagner: And I was pregnant.
• 5:18
  Steph Wagner: I had a two-year-old at home.
• 5:20
  Steph Wagner: My husband traveled 150 nights, and I'm like, something has to give.
• 5:23
  Steph Wagner: And I quit.
• 5:24
  Steph Wagner: And that was the beginning.
• 5:27
  Steph Wagner: Losing my earning power was just a tidbit, right?
• 5:30
  Steph Wagner: But it was the beginning of losing all of my financial autonomy.
• 5:34
  Steph Wagner: I eventually gave everything over to my husband.
• 5:36
  Steph Wagner: We divided and conquered.
• 5:38
  Steph Wagner: He was in finance as well.
• 5:40
  Steph Wagner: I was busy raising kids, he was busy working, traveling, and all that kind of worked until it did it.
• 5:47
  Steph Wagner: And the next real pivotal moment is when I had learned that he'd been living a double life and having an affair and wanted was in love with someone else and wanted to end our marriage.
• 5:58
  Steph Wagner: And it was my wake-up call that, oh my gosh, like nobody wakes up and says, I think I'll lose my financial independence today.
• 6:07
  Steph Wagner: Oh my gosh, I have let this happen over the last 14 years.
• 6:11
  Steph Wagner: And now what am I going to do?
• 6:13
  Steph Wagner: How am I going to support myself?
• 6:14
  Steph Wagner: How am I going to support my kids?
• 6:16
  Steph Wagner: And how in the world am I going to deal with the most devastating loss of identity?
• 6:21
  Steph Wagner: I was a wife, I was a mother, I'd given everything up for my family.
• 6:24
  Steph Wagner: And I just quickly realized if I'm feeling this low, if I'm feeling this overwhelmed, what is the average woman feeling who doesn't have a background in finance?
• 6:34
  Steph Wagner: Right.
• 6:34
  Steph Wagner: Like I had tools to rebuild emotionally.
• 6:37
  Steph Wagner: I was a disaster.
• 6:38
  Steph Wagner: So I leaned into those tools and started to rebuild, but I was a mess.
• 6:44
  Steph Wagner: And it became the beginning of my, like I said, my mission of I've got to use this story to help women feel like they're not alone.
• 6:52
  Steph Wagner: That we're all doing the best we can.
• 6:54
  Steph Wagner: Right.
• 6:55
  Steph Wagner: But I've got to also help.
• 6:57
  Steph Wagner: And that's when I was like, if I can use my financial expertise and what ultimately became my curriculum and the work that I ultimately did, I might be onto something.
• 7:06
  Steph Wagner: And that was the beginning of Fly.
• 7:07
  Steph Wagner: And there's a reason why it's called Fly, is because it's a women's empowerment book disguised as a finance book.
• 7:13
  Steph Wagner: And I want every woman out there to live life big and to not play life small.
• 7:17
  Steph Wagner: And your financial well-being is such a key component of your ability to do that.
• 7:22
  Michelle Gauthier: Yes, absolutely.
• 7:23
  Michelle Gauthier: And, you know, and I mentioned that the book was so relatable as a memoir because it was so vulnerable.
• 7:29
  Michelle Gauthier: That's what I'm talking about.
• 7:31
  Michelle Gauthier: Because the women who I work with and women who are listening to this podcast who are feeling overwhelmed, if they don't know what's going on with their financial life and maybe they have outsourced it to their partner and they're just like, I can't think about that.
• 7:44
  Michelle Gauthier: Hopefully everything's just going fine.
• 7:46
  Michelle Gauthier: A lot of times they might feel like, well, I just don't get that, or that's not my cup of tea.
• 7:52
  Michelle Gauthier: And I love that you are a woman who was like a vice president in a private equity firm and it happened to you too.
• 7:59
  Michelle Gauthier: It's like such a wake-up call because you knew about finance.
• 8:03
  Michelle Gauthier: You know how important it was, and you still were in that same situation.
• 8:07
  Michelle Gauthier: So I'm sure that wasn't a lot of fun to share.
• 8:10
  Michelle Gauthier: Or maybe it was better once you got on the other side of it.
• 8:13
  Michelle Gauthier: But I just appreciate that because I notice all the time that women, any problem that they tell me about, they feel like they're the only one.
• 8:20
  Michelle Gauthier: Like everybody else can do this, but I can't do this.
• 8:22
  Michelle Gauthier: And I don't know why we do that way.
• 8:24
  Michelle Gauthier: We sort of self-isolate, but it's not true.
• 8:27
  Michelle Gauthier: It's not true.
• 8:29
  Steph Wagner: And I think one of the reasons we self-isolate in when it comes to money is we've been taught to never talk about it, right?
• 8:35
  Steph Wagner: Yeah.
• 8:35
  Steph Wagner: And and and also in many ways, we've been taught not to talk about the things where we feel shame, right?
• 8:44
  Steph Wagner: That we have to feel strong.
• 8:45
  Steph Wagner: We have to feel, you know, we have to, especially in a world right now where this women are such badasses, right?
• 8:51
  Steph Wagner: So if there are, if we have these feelings of inadequacy to show that and be vulnerable, while it's the right thing to do, I believe, right?
• 8:58
  Steph Wagner: I think, I think beauty comes out of showing our vulnerability.
• 9:01
  Steph Wagner: It's still hard and icky.
• 9:02
  Steph Wagner: It's still really tough.
• 9:04
  Steph Wagner: And I will tell you, and I appreciate your words around the journey of my discovery of despite my financial aptitude, how did I get in this mess?
• 9:12
  Steph Wagner: You know, I think at the end of the day, we tend to repeat the behaviors that we see growing up, right?
• 9:19
  Steph Wagner: And sometimes we go the opposite way.
• 9:21
  Steph Wagner: But our childhood has a big impact.
• 9:24
  Steph Wagner: And I saw money as such a source of conflict in my childhood, as such a source of control, as such a bad thing.
• 9:32
  Steph Wagner: Despite my mom had an amazing career that in my own marriage, I just didn't want to fight about it.
• 9:38
  Steph Wagner: I didn't want to argue.
• 9:39
  Steph Wagner: So I didn't realize I was doing it until I had to realize it, until I was on my own.
• 9:44
  Steph Wagner: And I sat with myself and said, okay, Steph, why?
• 9:48
  Steph Wagner: Like, why did you abdicate?
• 9:50
  Steph Wagner: Like, actually, you're kind of better at this stuff than he was.
• 9:53
  Steph Wagner: And what's the mindset that you've had that's been holding you back?
• 9:56
  Steph Wagner: And what do you need to do to change?
• 9:58
  Steph Wagner: And and I think self-awareness and personal growth is the key to anything, money or not.
• 10:02
  Steph Wagner: But it's it's tough work.
• 10:04
  Steph Wagner: But when you do the work, it's liberating.
• 10:07
  Michelle Gauthier: Yes.
• 10:07
  Michelle Gauthier: And I think especially with money stories, when we start to discover, well, this is how I was raised, and so this is what I believed about money, you can see that and be like, oh, and I don't even believe that anymore.
• 10:18
  Michelle Gauthier: Right.
• 10:18
  Michelle Gauthier: It's just an unconscious belief that was playing in my head.
• 10:21
  Michelle Gauthier: And now I can write it down on a piece of paper and start working on changing it, reprogramming myself.
• 10:27
  Michelle Gauthier: So even though your book is about, I guess your journey was spurred by a divorce and a situation where you had to figure it out all out on your own.
• 10:37
  Michelle Gauthier: I want anybody who's listening who's thinking, well, I'm happily married and I don't know anything about money, but it's just fine for me.
• 10:43
  Michelle Gauthier: I totally hope that's true.
• 10:45
  Michelle Gauthier: Even if you stay married for the entire rest of your life, I like that your book says this is for all women.
• 10:52
  Michelle Gauthier: All women need to practice financial freedom because you never know what's going to happen, first of all.
• 10:58
  Michelle Gauthier: And second of all, it's such an important part of our lives.
• 11:01
  Michelle Gauthier: So can you tell us a little bit about how you would define financial freedom?
• 11:06
  Michelle Gauthier: I love how you talk about it's not necessarily a dollar amount.
• 11:09
  Michelle Gauthier: So what is it?
• 11:10
  Steph Wagner: It's financial autonomy.
• 11:12
  Steph Wagner: And and we all need it to your point.
• 11:14
  Steph Wagner: And I'll break down that definition here in a second.
• 11:17
  Steph Wagner: But I love that you just highlighted that because it is so important for me to get out there that divorce was my catalyst, right?
• 11:23
  Steph Wagner: I lived pretty comfy until a pivotal moment where the snow globe was really shooking up, right?
• 11:30
  Steph Wagner: And it was like, but the truth is it could happen.
• 11:34
  Steph Wagner: It could be a job loss, it could be a medical crisis, it could be a business failure.
• 11:38
  Steph Wagner: Frankly, it builds better partnerships in marriage, right?
• 11:42
  Steph Wagner: That to have conversations and to be on the same page and to communicate about shared goals and and how we're going to work together to achieve those goals and prioritizing.
• 11:52
  Steph Wagner: And that can only happen when we build confidence around money, right?
• 11:55
  Steph Wagner: So when people say, you know, I hear out there all the time, financial independence means you never have to work again.
• 12:01
  Steph Wagner: I'm like, no, it doesn't.
• 12:02
  Steph Wagner: Frankly, to a woman that doesn't have control over this or may not even have a lot of earning power, that is overwhelming.
• 12:09
  Steph Wagner: That's like, well, I'll never achieve it.
• 12:11
  Steph Wagner: I'm going to be working until the day I die.
• 12:13
  Steph Wagner: No, it's a mindset.
• 12:14
  Steph Wagner: It's about understanding that financial independence is a mindset that builds freedom.
• 12:21
  Steph Wagner: It is making a commitment to yourself that no matter what, I am that am going to do anything it takes, right?
• 12:28
  Steph Wagner: Not a man, not a boss, not a mother, not a father, not a sister, but me, I'm going to take control over my financial life and I'm going to do the work to build the tools and the skills, and frankly, the team around me, whether it's a community, whether it's advisors, to make more informed decisions, to take ownership of this.
• 12:48
  Steph Wagner: Because too many of us are abdicating, right?
• 12:51
  Steph Wagner: And I think what might surprise you is that married younger women who are married, they may strive to be financially independent early on in their careers or as they get out of college.
• 13:02
  Steph Wagner: And they are.
• 13:03
  Steph Wagner: They're more in the game than ever before.
• 13:05
  Steph Wagner: But studies still show that when they marry, there's still that dividing and conquering.
• 13:10
  Steph Wagner: There's still that abdication.
• 13:12
  Steph Wagner: And that's putting us and frankly, our partners and our families at risk.
• 13:15
  Steph Wagner: You also mentioned something that I want to expand upon if it's okay.
• 13:19
  Steph Wagner: We are living longer than ever.
• 13:21
  Steph Wagner: And it's awesome, right?
• 13:23
  Steph Wagner: The average woman today that has means to a healthy lifestyle, good medical care, should expect to live in her 90s.
• 13:31
  Steph Wagner: Well, we outlive men by, you know, five to 10 to 15 years.
• 13:36
  Steph Wagner: So even if you're in the happiest marriage, and I'm all for them, right?
• 13:39
  Steph Wagner: It's great.
• 13:40
  Steph Wagner: But the truth is, is eight out of 10 of us because of widowhood, because of the rise of grade divorce, you know, the fact that a lot of women are choosing to remain single even after those events.
• 13:49
  Steph Wagner: Eight out of 10 of us can expect to be to spend many of our golden years alone.
• 13:54
  Steph Wagner: And a lot of us aren't financially prepared.
• 13:56
  Steph Wagner: So it's so important that we establish great habits early in life, whether you are in your 20s or 30s, or even before something might happen.
• 14:05
  Steph Wagner: And again, let's hope it never does.
• 14:07
  Steph Wagner: And then foster a healthier partnership within your families.
• 14:10
  Michelle Gauthier: Yes.
• 14:11
  Michelle Gauthier: But imagine trying to learn all this when you're 80, right?
• 14:14
  Steph Wagner: Like that would be so much harder.
• 14:16
  Steph Wagner: Or when the rub is pulled out and you're emotionally like me a mess, right?
• 14:20
  Steph Wagner: It's so much harder to see things clearly and take action.
• 14:24
  Michelle Gauthier: You mentioned that women are going to live longer than men.
• 14:26
  Michelle Gauthier: One of the stats I saw in your book that seemed unbelievable to me that the average age of a widow is 59.
• 14:33
  Steph Wagner: Yes.
• 14:34
  Steph Wagner: Very few people.
• 14:35
  Steph Wagner: I'm always, I speak a lot about this across the country in mixed crowds.
• 14:39
  Steph Wagner: And I always pause to say, okay, I'm sorry, men in the room, but here's the reality, you know, is that the average age of widowhood in this country is 59.
• 14:47
  Steph Wagner: And we also are seeing a tremendous rise in the number of people, men and women that are choosing to divorce later in life.
• 14:55
  Steph Wagner: And a lot of that is because of longevity.
• 14:58
  Steph Wagner: They're like, wait, I could live to be 90 and I'm really not that happy.
• 15:01
  Steph Wagner: And I want to thrive.
• 15:02
  Steph Wagner: And so when you combine those, that's how you get to the eight out of 10.
• 15:06
  Steph Wagner: But when you break down the widowhood stat, I think, first of all, you know, that includes a lot of marriages where there is an age gap.
• 15:14
  Steph Wagner: And frankly, we would think that with medicine, you know, advancing, you know, truth be told, that number's not changing.
• 15:20
  Steph Wagner: It's been 59 for years.
• 15:23
  Steph Wagner: So shocking.
• 15:24
  Steph Wagner: I know, and you may know, I mean, I know women that have been in their 40s and their husband has dropped out.
• 15:29
  Steph Wagner: Absolutely.
• 15:29
  Steph Wagner: Just horrible.
• 15:30
  Steph Wagner: And of course, the reverse, too.
• 15:32
  Steph Wagner: You know, I mean, things happen obviously where men become widow, but it's still, it's a very important step that I don't think we're talking enough about.
• 15:40
  Michelle Gauthier: Yes.
• 15:40
  Michelle Gauthier: Yeah.
• 15:41
  Michelle Gauthier: I definitely highlighted that and highlighted that people over 50 are getting divorced at twice the rate they used to, but over 65 is like three times the rate that they used to.
• 15:52
  Michelle Gauthier: So this was not to be scary.
• 15:55
  Michelle Gauthier: And again, hopefully everything works out, but like there's an 80% chance that even if you're with someone now, that you will have to manage your money alone at some point.
• 16:03
  Michelle Gauthier: So now is the time.
• 16:05
  Michelle Gauthier: And they'll have to read the book, of course, to get all of the details for exactly how to do that.
• 16:11
  Michelle Gauthier: But if you were to just imagine you're talking to someone right now who's thinking, I'm really overwhelmed with this.
• 16:17
  Michelle Gauthier: My spouse does everything, but I actually do see the value in doing it.
• 16:21
  Michelle Gauthier: And I would like to get started.
• 16:23
  Michelle Gauthier: What is the first thing that you would tell them to do?
• 16:25
  Michelle Gauthier: One small step.
• 16:27
  Steph Wagner: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:28
  Steph Wagner: The book really lays out the seven steps to freedom, and you highlighted that.
• 16:32
  Steph Wagner: But the mostly do build on each other.
• 16:35
  Steph Wagner: I hope you saw that.
• 16:35
  Steph Wagner: They're really building blocks step by step.
• 16:37
  Steph Wagner: But the first thing is, and I touched on it here in the beginning of our conversation, you've got to unpack your current relationship with money.
• 16:46
  Steph Wagner: You've got to understand, you highlighted it beautifully.
• 16:49
  Steph Wagner: You aren't stuck, but you can't make change until you survey the landscape and you really look at why have I had these behaviors with it?
• 16:58
  Steph Wagner: Why have I avoided conversations or why am I living beyond my means?
• 17:03
  Steph Wagner: Like, why do I feel that way?
• 17:05
  Steph Wagner: What am I doing?
• 17:06
  Steph Wagner: You have to really take a hard look at where you are today and the habits and beliefs that you have and be honest with yourself, right?
• 17:14
  Steph Wagner: I mean, I always say talking with other people is so important when it comes to money, but you first need to know how to talk to yourself and be honest and open.
• 17:23
  Steph Wagner: I then am a real believer of you've got to have an honest conversation with how you were raised.
• 17:29
  Steph Wagner: What were the money messages that you received that may not work, that may have been nothing but lies?
• 17:34
  Steph Wagner: I grew up in this family that was a lot of penny pinchers.
• 17:38
  Steph Wagner: My grandparents were part of the depression generation, right?
• 17:41
  Steph Wagner: And factory workers from Rockford, Illinois.
• 17:44
  Steph Wagner: Money was not to be talked about, but also it was to be saved, not spent.
• 17:47
  Steph Wagner: And my dad did the opposite.
• 17:50
  Steph Wagner: He lived so beyond our means.
• 17:52
  Steph Wagner: And in always I struggled with that, you know, because I knew what he was doing wasn't what we were taught, right?
• 18:00
  Steph Wagner: But I was confused.
• 18:01
  Steph Wagner: I was left who interpret things that I develop messages on my own, if that makes sense.
• 18:06
  Steph Wagner: I was taught debt was bad.
• 18:08
  Steph Wagner: You pay cash for everything.
• 18:09
  Steph Wagner: Well, I'm here to tell you debt is not bad.
• 18:12
  Steph Wagner: You just have to use it right.
• 18:13
  Steph Wagner: And unpacking the why behind your current money story, all the narrative that you told yourself.
• 18:21
  Steph Wagner: And then most importantly, and I can kind of break this down here in the book of how to do this, but start to get excited about going forward, to make that next step, you got to think about where do you want to go?
• 18:32
  Steph Wagner: You know, how do you want to shift your thinking around money?
• 18:35
  Steph Wagner: But also, equally important, what do you want for the next chapter?
• 18:38
  Steph Wagner: What's a vision you have for your future?
• 18:40
  Steph Wagner: And I think some people might go, what does that have to do with money?
• 18:43
  Steph Wagner: Everything because it helps you create goals.
• 18:46
  Steph Wagner: It helps you think big and be inspired and empowered and inspire other people.
• 18:52
  Steph Wagner: But then you figure out how you can afford to do it, right?
• 18:55
  Steph Wagner: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Steph Wagner: How you're going to actually create that life.
• 18:58
  Steph Wagner: So that is the first step.
• 18:59
  Steph Wagner: And it's pretty amazing what happens when you start to realize, man, I was living in a scarcity mindset.
• 19:07
  Steph Wagner: That's not healthy.
• 19:08
  Steph Wagner: I've got to get into more of a growth mindset.
• 19:10
  Steph Wagner: And my book hopefully helps you kind of change your thinking.
• 19:13
  Michelle Gauthier: Yes, absolutely.
• 19:15
  Michelle Gauthier: And it also guides you through all those terms that you're like, what is a Roth IR?
• 19:19
  Michelle Gauthier: Right.
• 19:20
  Michelle Gauthier: What does my 401k mean?
• 19:22
  Michelle Gauthier: So it has all the practical nuts and bolts in it as well.
• 19:25
  Michelle Gauthier: But I love that that's the first step because I think that's actually the first step for any problem.
• 19:30
  Michelle Gauthier: That's what we talk about repeatedly on here.
• 19:33
  Michelle Gauthier: Check your mindset.
• 19:33
  Michelle Gauthier: What are you thinking about it?
• 19:35
  Michelle Gauthier: How do you want to think about it instead?
• 19:36
  Michelle Gauthier: What kind of life do you want to create?
• 19:38
  Michelle Gauthier: How do you want to feel in your life?
• 19:40
  Michelle Gauthier: And it's the same thing just for money.
• 19:42
  Michelle Gauthier: And I love that.
• 19:44
  Michelle Gauthier: So this is my last question for you before I ask you the standard two questions.
• 19:48
  Michelle Gauthier: Obviously, when you're going through this divorce and you're completely surprised by it, and you made a real effort to try to hang on to that marriage, and it was in the end, it just didn't work.
• 19:59
  Michelle Gauthier: So obviously, you're not having a really fun time at life then.
• 20:03
  Michelle Gauthier: Looking back now, now that you've got this book out there and you have your whole career, what's been your favorite part of that transformation, of the good part of like the afterstory?
• 20:15
  Michelle Gauthier: What would you say is your absolute favorite part?
• 20:18
  Steph Wagner: Well, you may be surprised by this answer, but I have such, I'm gonna get it's okay.
• 20:24
  Steph Wagner: Go ahead.
• 20:25
  Steph Wagner: I have such profound gratitude for the muck.
• 20:30
  Steph Wagner: I learned so much about myself through the really hard times, and I never thought I'd have gratitude around it.
• 20:37
  Steph Wagner: It was so hard.
• 20:38
  Steph Wagner: It was so scary.
• 20:40
  Steph Wagner: I did this alone.
• 20:40
  Steph Wagner: Ultimately, I raised my three little boys all by myself.
• 20:43
  Steph Wagner: And I'm proud to say, and I think this is actually another thing I am so proud of is I now have a 28, a 26, and 22-year-old that are thriving.
• 20:53
  Steph Wagner: And it's the result of so much pain and so much hard work and so much focus on what I needed to do for me and most importantly to provide security for my three boys.
• 21:04
  Steph Wagner: But the gratitude I have for the tough times, I think sometimes when we're in it, it's so hard to see that there is this beauty around the other side.
• 21:14
  Steph Wagner: When you're in the muck, you get stuck.
• 21:16
  Steph Wagner: And I now have a really great appreciation because we're going to continue to get in mucks.
• 21:22
  Steph Wagner: Life is nothing but transitions.
• 21:24
  Steph Wagner: And when we're in these new seasons, we don't even know that we're going through it and we're getting to something even better.
• 21:32
  Steph Wagner: But that skill that I learned, does that make sense?
• 21:35
  Steph Wagner: Absolutely.
• 21:36
  Steph Wagner: So well through all of life's many chapters, because change can be scary, very, very scary.
• 21:43
  Steph Wagner: But I learned through that that the discomfort you're feeling means you're growing inside.
• 21:48
  Steph Wagner: Yes.
• 21:48
  Steph Wagner: And really amazing things are on the other side of it when you lean in, when you get comfortable in the uncomfortable.
• 21:55
  Steph Wagner: And that was the result of this really tough stuff.
• 21:58
  Steph Wagner: But I couldn't be happier.
• 21:59
  Steph Wagner: Oftentimes people say, Do you have any regrets?
• 22:01
  Steph Wagner: I don't believe in them.
• 22:03
  Steph Wagner: I think it's life is nothing but things that provide us lessons to grow from.
• 22:08
  Michelle Gauthier: Yeah.
• 22:08
  Michelle Gauthier: So absolutely.
• 22:09
  Michelle Gauthier: And sometimes you know that the upside is coming.
• 22:12
  Michelle Gauthier: You're gonna understand one day why this is happening and why this is for good.
• 22:16
  Michelle Gauthier: And it's really tough when you're in the muck.
• 22:19
  Michelle Gauthier: It is.
• 22:19
  Michelle Gauthier: But I think being able to be out of it, that's wonderful.
• 22:22
  Michelle Gauthier: I I love Pink, the singer Pink, and she has lyrics to a song that say, I've been to the bottom, so there's nothing to fear.
• 22:30
  Michelle Gauthier: And I'm not saying nothing worse could ever happen to me, but when you have really been to the bottom of your divorce and starting your whole life over, and in my case, quitting my job and starting a new one and all that stuff, it just feels like, oh my gosh, but now I have the most self-belief.
• 22:46
  Michelle Gauthier: Like I could you could just drop me in some foreign country and I'll figure something out of it.
• 22:51
  Steph Wagner: It's such a gift of the confidence that we we built inside of us, it transcends and and it applies to all aspects of our life.
• 22:59
  Steph Wagner: So I love that you just said that.
• 23:00
  Steph Wagner: It's the gift that we wouldn't have that new muscle if we didn't go through those hard times.
• 23:05
  Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, if I didn't have the opportunity to go to the bottom.
• 23:07
  Michelle Gauthier: Yeah.
• 23:07
  Michelle Gauthier: Exactly.
• 23:08
  Michelle Gauthier: So thank you.
• 23:11
  Steph Wagner: I thank my ex-husband every day.
• 23:13
  Steph Wagner: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:14
  Steph Wagner: Exactly.
• 23:15
  Steph Wagner: Which sounds so weird, but I really do.
• 23:17
  Steph Wagner: I really do.
• 23:19
  Steph Wagner: Oh my gosh.
• 23:20
  Michelle Gauthier: Okay, now I want to ask you the questions I ask everybody.
• 23:23
  Michelle Gauthier: So, what is something that you do when you feel overwhelmed to make yourself feel better or less overwhelmed?
• 23:29
  Steph Wagner: I get on a bike.
• 23:30
  Steph Wagner: Cycling is my absolute passion, joy, but it's funny.
• 23:36
  Steph Wagner: It it works my muscles, but it works my mind.
• 23:39
  Steph Wagner: It gives me quiet time.
• 23:41
  Steph Wagner: I'm going too fast to look, get distracted.
• 23:44
  Steph Wagner: My eyes are straight ahead.
• 23:45
  Steph Wagner: And half this book, honestly, was written on a bike.
• 23:48
  Steph Wagner: I would get off and dictate.
• 23:50
  Steph Wagner: Oh, that's so great.
• 23:51
  Steph Wagner: I I think broadly speaking, when you're overwhelmed, my advice is understand that walking, cycling, using your right and your left really brings balance back and puts you in a much more balanced mindset.
• 24:06
  Steph Wagner: It's really, again, using the right and the left of your body, whether you're on a bike or you're walking.
• 24:10
  Steph Wagner: It's so yes.
• 24:11
  Steph Wagner: Yeah.
• 24:12
  Michelle Gauthier: And it's so exciting because I think when we're overwhelmed, we have a tendency to try to like sit at our desk and produce something.
• 24:18
  Michelle Gauthier: But if you really want to, you need to walk away.
• 24:21
  Michelle Gauthier: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Michelle Gauthier: Right away in your case.
• 24:23
  Michelle Gauthier: Okay.
• 24:24
  Michelle Gauthier: I love that.
• 24:24
  Michelle Gauthier: We've never had biking as an answer before.
• 24:27
  Michelle Gauthier: I love that.
• 24:27
  Michelle Gauthier: And then secondly, what is something that you do to save time or just do less?
• 24:35
  Steph Wagner: Well, I must admit, I need to do more of that.
• 24:38
  Steph Wagner: Yes.
• 24:39
  Steph Wagner: That that needs to be a 2026 top of the list goal.
• 24:44
  Steph Wagner: But I think the one thing is I lean into mobile Starbucks.
• 24:48
  Steph Wagner: Mobile Starbucks.
• 24:49
  Steph Wagner: I love that.
• 24:50
  Steph Wagner: Number one, it does make it so much easier when you're in an airport to like on the plane as you're landing, like put your order in and just swing by and pick it up between.
• 24:58
  Steph Wagner: Yep.
• 24:58
  Steph Wagner: But it also doesn't cost you any more money.
• 25:00
  Steph Wagner: Yes.
• 25:01
  Steph Wagner: Yes.
• 25:01
  Steph Wagner: So it's good for both of your brains.
• 25:04
  Michelle Gauthier: Exactly.
• 25:05
  Steph Wagner: Financial brain and not the regular brain.
• 25:07
  Michelle Gauthier: Yes, that's exactly when I've done that at the airport before, especially like DFW or somewhere where it's huge and it's packed and everything.
• 25:13
  Michelle Gauthier: And I think, doesn't everybody know about this?
• 25:15
  Michelle Gauthier: I'm just walking up and just grabbing my coffee.
• 25:17
  Michelle Gauthier: I want to shout it from the rooftop.
• 25:19
  Michelle Gauthier: Do you realize the time you could save in that long?
• 25:22
  Michelle Gauthier: Exactly.
• 25:24
  Michelle Gauthier: Exactly.
• 25:24
  Michelle Gauthier: Oh my gosh.
• 25:25
  Michelle Gauthier: My brain is just wired for efficiency and I cannot help it.
• 25:28
  Michelle Gauthier: I'm always looking for more efficient ways to do something.
• 25:31
  Michelle Gauthier: So when other people don't do it, I want to be like, excuse me, everyone.
• 25:34
  Michelle Gauthier: I wanted you to know if you get this app.
• 25:36
  Michelle Gauthier: And if forward, Michelle, I love it.
• 25:39
  Michelle Gauthier: Yes, exactly.
• 25:41
  Michelle Gauthier: Well, thank you so much for being on.
• 25:43
  Michelle Gauthier: And I loved your book and I loved getting to know you.
• 25:46
  Michelle Gauthier: So if people have been listening and they want the book fly, where can they find it?
• 25:52
  Steph Wagner: Well, you can find it on all the major book distributions.
• 25:54
  Steph Wagner: Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, Walmart.
• 25:57
  Steph Wagner: It's it's it's everywhere.
• 25:58
  Steph Wagner: I'm so blessed.
• 25:59
  Steph Wagner: And also the audiobook.
• 26:01
  Steph Wagner: I I had the honor, which was amazing.
• 26:04
  Steph Wagner: I had to actually audition, Michelle.
• 26:05
  Steph Wagner: It was crazy.
• 26:06
  Steph Wagner: But then I had the honor of recording my own story and it it really meant a lot to me and was one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had.
• 26:13
  Steph Wagner: So my mesh.
• 26:14
  Steph Wagner: Yeah.
• 26:15
  Michelle Gauthier: It was you had to audition.
• 26:17
  Michelle Gauthier: Like they were going to get somebody else to be you if you were they're enough you.
• 26:21
  Steph Wagner: Okay.
• 26:22
  Michelle Gauthier: Yeah, exactly.
• 26:23
  Steph Wagner: I was like, wait, what?
• 26:24
  Steph Wagner: And they're like, we need a five-minute reading.
• 26:26
  Steph Wagner: I'm like, okay.
• 26:27
  Steph Wagner: So I was thrilled.
• 26:29
  Michelle Gauthier: If that wasn't somebody's natural knack to be good at speaking, that it could really take away from the book.
• 26:33
  Michelle Gauthier: Oh, that is so fun.
• 26:35
  Michelle Gauthier: What a neat experience.
• 26:36
  Steph Wagner: Yeah, it was.
• 26:37
  Steph Wagner: It was an honor.
• 26:38
  Steph Wagner: And then also you can find me on my website, you know, stephellwagner.com.
• 26:42
  Michelle Gauthier: Okay.
• 26:42
  Michelle Gauthier: So stephlwagner.com.
• 26:46
  Michelle Gauthier: Okay.
• 26:46
  Michelle Gauthier: Great.
• 26:46
  Michelle Gauthier: We'll put all that in the show notes.
• 26:48
  Steph Wagner: Perfect.
• 26:49
  Steph Wagner: And Instagram and LinkedIn.
• 26:50
  Michelle Gauthier: In all the places.
• 26:51
  Michelle Gauthier: Steph L.
• 26:52
  Michelle Gauthier: Wagner.
• 26:53
  Michelle Gauthier: Okay.
• 26:53
  Steph Wagner: Perfect.
• 26:54
  Michelle Gauthier: All right.
• 26:54
  Michelle Gauthier: Thank you so much.
• 26:56
  Steph Wagner: Well, thank you, Michelle, and thanks for the great work you are doing.
• 26:58
  Steph Wagner: I love it.
• 26:59
  Steph Wagner: I love your story and how you're turning it into helping others as well.
• 27:06
  Michelle Gauthier: Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast.
• 27:09
  Michelle Gauthier: If you want to learn more about my work, head over to my website at MichelleGauthier.com.
• 27:15
  Michelle Gauthier: See you next week.