Latest / Luke's English Podcast / S2E16 - The Friend Who Stayed_ Amanda Rowton on Hailey Athay_ Family_ and the Life Left Behind(M4A_128K)

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S2E16 - The Friend Who Stayed_ Amanda Rowton on Hailey Athay_ Family_ and the Life Left Behind(M4A_128K) · Luke's English Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: In Tragedy a True crime podcast, we discuss missing persons, cases,
0:05
Speaker 1: violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult
0:09
Speaker 1: for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is
0:18
Speaker 1: a place where every story matters and every voice deserves
0:21
Speaker 1: to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe
0:25
Speaker 1: at www dot Tragedy a Truecrime podcast dot com for
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Speaker 1: early access to new episodes and join our Facebook community
0:34
Speaker 1: Tragedy a True Crime Podcast for updates, discussions, and ways
0:39
Speaker 1: to support the families we feature. Welcome to Tragedy a
0:44
Speaker 1: True crime Podcast.
0:46
Speaker 2: I'm Alisa and I'm Michael.
0:48
Speaker 1: Today we're speaking with Amanda Routen, one of Hailey's friends.
0:51
Speaker 1: Amanda spent time with Haley and remembers the normal, everyday
0:55
Speaker 1: parts of her life, the things that can sometimes get
0:58
Speaker 1: lost when a case becomes about timelines and unanswered questions.
1:02
Speaker 1: In this conversation, Amanda helps us understand who Hailey was
1:06
Speaker 1: and what she remembers about the time before Hailey disappeared.
1:10
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us sharing your memories, and welcome
1:14
Speaker 1: to the show.
1:15
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me all Right, before we get
1:18
Speaker 3: into the the actual interview, there's a game that we've
1:20
Speaker 3: started playing the season.
1:22
Speaker 2: So, Alisa, you want to kick our question game off.
1:25
Speaker 1: Yes, So we have three questions for you, Amanda. We're
1:27
Speaker 1: going to start with an easy one. This is about
1:30
Speaker 1: peanut butter. Do you like crunchy peanut butter or smooth
1:33
Speaker 1: peanut butter?
1:35
Speaker 4: Definitely smooth peanut butter.
1:37
Speaker 1: Boo, how about you? Michael?
1:40
Speaker 3: Oh, you gotta know the answer to that, because yeah,
1:41
Speaker 3: I think crunchy peanut butter is something they should have
1:43
Speaker 3: never invented smooth peanut butter only because to me, it
1:47
Speaker 3: just gets rid of the fun.
1:49
Speaker 1: Smooth peanut butter gets rid of the fun or crunchy
1:51
Speaker 1: makes it.
1:52
Speaker 2: Crunchy makes it unfun. Oh I see, it gets in
1:55
Speaker 2: my mouth.
1:55
Speaker 1: See now my daughter also smooth. So when she was
1:59
Speaker 1: young and girling up, I'm obviously on team crunchy. I
2:03
Speaker 1: would buy crunchy peanut butter and they're like, why are
2:05
Speaker 1: you doing this? And then of course the crunchy peanut
2:08
Speaker 1: butter would last for a year and the smooth it
2:10
Speaker 1: would be gone in about three months.
2:12
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, country peanut butter is just it's just
2:15
Speaker 2: not done. They didn't finish it.
2:18
Speaker 3: I have I have the same opinion of crunchy peanut
2:20
Speaker 3: butter that I haven't done. It's cottage cheese, Like who
2:23
Speaker 3: invented cottage cheese? And how do they know they were done?
2:27
Speaker 1: But you also don't like cottage cheese and I like
2:29
Speaker 1: cottage cheese. I'm starting to think see Okay, so I
2:33
Speaker 1: thought for you, I think this is a consistency issue.
2:35
Speaker 2: Michael, Oh, I agree.
2:36
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is. Okay. Question number two,
2:40
Speaker 1: what is the last TV show you binge watched?
2:47
Speaker 4: That would be Virgin River.
2:50
Speaker 2: I don't know that I ever heard of it.
2:52
Speaker 1: It's on Netflix, and tell us a little bit about it.
2:56
Speaker 5: So it's about a doctor who came back to Virgin River,
3:01
Speaker 5: the town where her dad was at well, she thought
3:04
Speaker 5: it was her biological dad. Anyways, she came back over
3:07
Speaker 5: there to open up a small practice.
3:10
Speaker 4: It's like a small town and ends up falling.
3:12
Speaker 5: In love over there, and her and her husband try
3:15
Speaker 5: to have a baby, and there's a lot of stuff
3:17
Speaker 5: along the way. It's it's like a you know, it's
3:20
Speaker 5: a girl and chick flick.
3:23
Speaker 1: So, Michael, you want to start binge watching that tonight? No,
3:26
Speaker 1: it's really good, okay, Michael.
3:30
Speaker 3: How about you pluribus is I think the last thing
3:34
Speaker 3: we technically binge watch. Yeah, and I would love to
3:37
Speaker 3: explain what it's about, but I'm not sure.
3:40
Speaker 1: Is this the one that's on Apple TV.
3:41
Speaker 3: It's on Apple TV only, and it's the one where
3:43
Speaker 3: the people get taken over and they they become this
3:46
Speaker 3: collective mind and there's like and then there's there's a
3:49
Speaker 3: handful of people that don't get impacted by it and
3:51
Speaker 3: you're watching them live through this. It's hard to explain,
3:55
Speaker 3: you know, how it works. But yeah, that's the last
3:57
Speaker 3: thing we've been tro actually find it's it's interesting, but
4:00
Speaker 3: it has long segments of boring too.
4:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was that one episode where there was like six.
4:05
Speaker 2: Words six words the whole episode.
4:06
Speaker 4: Yeah.
4:07
Speaker 1: So we don't have Apple TV, and we spend a
4:11
Speaker 1: lot of time traveling the country in our camper, and
4:14
Speaker 1: so sometimes we do this thing called moot stocking, where
4:16
Speaker 1: you stay at someone's house and use their things, and
4:20
Speaker 1: the where we are at that time, the person had
4:23
Speaker 1: Apple TV, so we were like, ooh, Apple TV. So
4:25
Speaker 1: we started like checking out things that we wouldn't have
4:28
Speaker 1: access to normally. That's how we came up with Pluribus.
4:33
Speaker 1: So for me, I have an affinity for shows like
4:38
Speaker 1: The Circle, Love Is Blind and those kinds of things,
4:43
Speaker 1: which go ahead, Michael, I.
4:45
Speaker 2: Know you'd like to add it's awful.
4:46
Speaker 1: He hates them, so does my daughter. And so when
4:51
Speaker 1: he goes like out of town for work or goes
4:54
Speaker 1: like on a boy's fishing trip or something over the weekend,
4:57
Speaker 1: I order lots of Mexican door da Mexican food to
5:01
Speaker 1: or dash and I watch The Circle and Ninety Day
5:04
Speaker 1: Fiance and Love is Blind and all of those things.
5:09
Speaker 1: So that's what I like to binge watch because I'm
5:13
Speaker 1: amazing You're not around, and I know you hate them.
5:15
Speaker 1: And my daughter too, She's like, this is garbage. I'm like,
5:17
Speaker 1: you're a girl, You're supposed to like this. She doesn't
5:21
Speaker 1: want to watch it. Okay, well, Virgin River, but you
5:25
Speaker 1: gave that a big fat no. So Amanda and I
5:28
Speaker 1: will be watching TV together. Yep. Okay. Last question. If
5:32
Speaker 1: you could tell your younger self one thing, what would
5:36
Speaker 1: it be.
5:38
Speaker 5: Oh, that would be to listen to my mom. You know,
5:45
Speaker 5: growing up, all kids think that they know everything and
5:48
Speaker 5: that their parents don't know anything, and in the end,
5:51
Speaker 5: parents are always right.
5:52
Speaker 4: And I'm going through that with my sixteen year old
5:54
Speaker 4: daughter right now, who thinks that I don't know anything.
5:57
Speaker 5: And I remember fighting with my mom all the time
5:59
Speaker 5: time you don't understand, you don't understand. But as I
6:02
Speaker 5: grow up, I realize she understood everything, and everything that
6:06
Speaker 5: she would advise me to do or against is the
6:09
Speaker 5: same things I'm doing with my daughter right now. And
6:12
Speaker 5: if I would have just listened to her, it would
6:14
Speaker 5: have cut out all those fights along the way.
6:16
Speaker 3: Interesting, Michael, with me, I think it would be really
6:21
Speaker 3: aro own work. I think I spent a great deal
6:24
Speaker 3: of my time being really serious about work, and I
6:26
Speaker 3: allowed my work to become my identity, you know, part
6:30
Speaker 3: of or a significant component of my identity, and I
6:34
Speaker 3: think I regret that now that I've gotten older. And
6:36
Speaker 3: so even with this new job, while I do enjoy
6:38
Speaker 3: my new job, I keep a very specific separation between
6:43
Speaker 3: family and work, or friends in work or any anything.
6:47
Speaker 3: Work is work, and it's not part of my identitymore.
6:50
Speaker 3: And I think it's a better choice. I just wish
6:51
Speaker 3: I had learned it sooner.
6:52
Speaker 1: M Yeah, that's a good one for me. It's really simple.
6:57
Speaker 1: It's be nice. I wasn't the nicest of girls in
7:01
Speaker 1: high school. It was one of those mean girls, mean girl.
7:05
Speaker 1: I'm not proud of it, and I don't really know
7:08
Speaker 1: what it was about or why I did it. But
7:10
Speaker 1: now I have these shirts that say be kind to everybody,
7:13
Speaker 1: and people are like, you're always so nice, and I'm like,
7:16
Speaker 1: I got to make up for some poor choices I
7:18
Speaker 1: made growing up, so like, just be nice, be nice
7:22
Speaker 1: to people, don't be a bossy be I guess the
7:26
Speaker 1: first what I would tell myself, all right, well, thank
7:30
Speaker 1: you for that. I think I need to keep asking
7:33
Speaker 1: questions until I get a team crunchy person. Yeah, there's
7:37
Speaker 1: somebody out there. They make crunchy peanut butter for a reason. Yeah,
7:41
Speaker 1: because said yes, yet, Well I think we haven't. We
7:45
Speaker 1: usually asked different questions, but I think I might stick
7:47
Speaker 1: with this one for a little while.
7:48
Speaker 3: No, I just think you're just going to find people
7:50
Speaker 3: that aren't smart or have bad taste.
7:52
Speaker 1: That like crunchy peanut butter.
7:53
Speaker 2: That's correct, all right, thinks that's good?
7:57
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So let's pivot and let's talk about Hailey.
8:05
Speaker 1: And the first thing we'd like for you to tell
8:08
Speaker 1: us is, how did you know Hailey? What is your
8:10
Speaker 1: relationship with Haley and maybe your best memory.
8:15
Speaker 4: So I first met Haley.
8:18
Speaker 5: I was twenty one, twenty two, so this was twenty
8:21
Speaker 5: years ago. The father of her oldest daughter was my
8:27
Speaker 5: daughter's father's best friend, and so they kind of introduced us.
8:33
Speaker 5: We were pregnant with our daughters at the same time,
8:36
Speaker 5: and so you know, that's how we first became to
8:39
Speaker 5: be friends is through them, and then along the way.
8:43
Speaker 5: You know, she Hailey is just somebody that her personality
8:47
Speaker 5: just shines and you're just naturally drawn to her. Has
8:51
Speaker 5: the biggest heart, and I mean when she loves somebody,
8:55
Speaker 5: she truly loves them. And so we you know, throughout
8:58
Speaker 5: the years we would lose touch and come back, but
9:00
Speaker 5: it was like you always pick up, like no time
9:03
Speaker 5: has ever.
9:05
Speaker 4: Lapsed, you know, one of my favorite memories.
9:09
Speaker 5: I mean, we have a lot together, but you know,
9:12
Speaker 5: I struggled in my past with.
9:14
Speaker 4: Substance use and mental health.
9:16
Speaker 5: And when I first turned my life around, her and
9:18
Speaker 5: I got an apartment together and so it was her,
9:21
Speaker 5: I and my daughter, and there was numerous nights where
9:26
Speaker 5: we would just all snuggle in Haley's bed and watch
9:28
Speaker 5: TV and you know, just be girls and pig out
9:32
Speaker 5: and just laugh and it was.
9:34
Speaker 4: It was really good times.
9:36
Speaker 1: And so if we think about sort of the days,
9:39
Speaker 1: in the weeks and the months that led up to
9:41
Speaker 1: when you all became aware that it had been a
9:44
Speaker 1: good period of time before Haley had reached out, did
9:47
Speaker 1: you notice anything that was unusual or different about her
9:51
Speaker 1: leading up to that time.
9:52
Speaker 4: Well, unfortunately I didn't.
9:56
Speaker 5: I have been fostering Haley's middle daughter for the last
10:01
Speaker 5: three and a half almost four years, and so for
10:05
Speaker 5: a year year and a half before she went missing,
10:08
Speaker 5: I didn't really communicate with her as much. It kind
10:13
Speaker 5: of changed our relationship because, you know, as much as
10:17
Speaker 5: I love Haley, I was also I took on this
10:20
Speaker 5: role to love and protect her daughter as well, and
10:24
Speaker 5: so I had to set up some pretty strict boundaries
10:27
Speaker 5: with her, and so, you know, I would message her
10:30
Speaker 5: and check.
10:30
Speaker 4: In on her every once in a while.
10:32
Speaker 5: But it kind of pulled me in two different directions
10:36
Speaker 5: because here I am, you know, raising her daughter, and she,
10:40
Speaker 5: you know, she would come to the visits and stuff,
10:42
Speaker 5: but we just kind of lost touch because with fostering,
10:46
Speaker 5: they tell you not to intertwine those two worlds, you know,
10:50
Speaker 5: so I didn't really notice as much as other people did,
10:55
Speaker 5: just because I wasn't as close in her life at
10:58
Speaker 5: the time.
11:00
Speaker 2: Say what other people notice? What types of things were
11:02
Speaker 2: other people noticing, Like.
11:04
Speaker 5: When Shasta was the first one to notice that she
11:07
Speaker 5: hadn't been active online, you know, and she wasn't responding
11:13
Speaker 5: to her messages and stuff like that.
11:15
Speaker 4: That's what I'm talking about, is.
11:16
Speaker 5: Just because I wasn't looking to message her and talk
11:19
Speaker 5: to her all the time like other people were, So
11:21
Speaker 5: I didn't notice the difference of her not posting things
11:24
Speaker 5: online or calling or you know, returning phone calls or
11:28
Speaker 5: anything like that, because.
11:30
Speaker 1: At the time, your communication, as you just established, was
11:33
Speaker 1: the visitation, and so yes, she was sometimes coming to
11:37
Speaker 1: those sometimes not, so you didn't necessarily necessarily see any change,
11:42
Speaker 1: because it seems like it may have been unpredictable just
11:45
Speaker 1: by nature exactly.
11:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, how are the visitations going.
11:50
Speaker 5: At that point? Pretty sporadic? For the first year and
11:57
Speaker 5: a half that I had her daughter, she never made
12:01
Speaker 5: it to a full week of visits. You know, she
12:05
Speaker 5: would see her a couple times a week, but it
12:08
Speaker 5: wasn't the normal amount of scheduled visits, Like she didn't
12:13
Speaker 5: make it to all of them, and so yeah.
12:17
Speaker 1: So it just seems like in general, and I think
12:20
Speaker 1: Shasta had talked to us about this too, is sometimes
12:24
Speaker 1: she wouldn't be communicating online and she might kind of
12:27
Speaker 1: fall off, and then she would come back and start
12:29
Speaker 1: communicating in and then she would fall off. And it
12:31
Speaker 1: wasn't until there was a longer period of time, seems
12:35
Speaker 1: like maybe three to four, maybe even five weeks. That's
12:38
Speaker 1: when Shasta's kind of red flag started.
12:40
Speaker 5: Going up, exactly because she would have, you know, she
12:43
Speaker 5: would have a phone, and then she would lose the
12:45
Speaker 5: phone or it would get broken, so then she'd have
12:47
Speaker 5: to get another one.
12:48
Speaker 4: And that's just kind of routine when you're in that world.
12:51
Speaker 5: You know, it's not anything out of the ordinary. Nobody
12:54
Speaker 5: thinks anything of it. Talk and then they first noticed.
13:00
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, no, you're fine, go ahead.
13:02
Speaker 5: They first noticed on Thanksgiving she would always reach out
13:06
Speaker 5: to her mom, no matter what, you know, any holidays,
13:09
Speaker 5: she would always reach out and say Happy Thanksgiving or
13:12
Speaker 5: Merry Christmas or whatever. And Thanksgiving and Christmas both came
13:16
Speaker 5: and went and there was no word from her, and
13:18
Speaker 5: so that's when it kind of drew a red flag.
13:21
Speaker 1: So that's exactly what we're talking about when we're thinking
13:24
Speaker 1: about what's out of even if it's an unpredictable norm,
13:28
Speaker 1: there are some norms that were established the Thanksgiving, the Christmas,
13:32
Speaker 1: and those messages didn't happen, and that's when things, you know,
13:35
Speaker 1: people started kind of rallying around. Yep. So tell us
13:40
Speaker 1: about your recollections when you first began to learn that
13:44
Speaker 1: she had that she had not communicated for several months
13:48
Speaker 1: and then you know, things started moving forward with the
13:51
Speaker 1: missing persons. Tell us about your experience with that.
13:54
Speaker 5: It was really hard, like I said, I, you know,
13:58
Speaker 5: fostering her daughter. It's been and you know, it's changed
14:01
Speaker 5: our relationship. And so Haley and I weren't always on
14:05
Speaker 5: the best of terms the last couple of years, and
14:08
Speaker 5: it's it kind of made played a trick with my mind,
14:13
Speaker 5: Like you know, I started thinking like, well, maybe if
14:15
Speaker 5: I would have reached out more, or if I would
14:18
Speaker 5: have called more, you know, maybe things could have been different.
14:22
Speaker 5: So it was really hard, and so I started looking
14:25
Speaker 5: back on my messages, you know, seeing when the last
14:28
Speaker 5: time that I had talked to her, when the last
14:30
Speaker 5: time she had reached out to me, And then Shasta
14:33
Speaker 5: and I kind of compared you know, days and times,
14:37
Speaker 5: and the last time that I had heard anything from
14:40
Speaker 5: her was in the summer before, so there wasn't you know,
14:44
Speaker 5: I couldn't really do much to help as far as
14:47
Speaker 5: the timeline.
14:48
Speaker 4: Went with that.
14:49
Speaker 5: But it at first I didn't really I thought, you know,
14:55
Speaker 5: maybe well this can't be true, you know, like she's
14:58
Speaker 5: gonna be okay. You know, maybe she ended up going
15:02
Speaker 5: to treatment like she said she was, or maybe you know,
15:05
Speaker 5: she's just you know, somewhere where she doesn't have service,
15:08
Speaker 5: because at the time where she was staying, she would
15:10
Speaker 5: go in and out of service. But then, you know,
15:13
Speaker 5: days turned into weeks turn into months, and you know,
15:17
Speaker 5: that's when we kind of realized, like, something isn't right.
15:21
Speaker 2: How did you end up fostering for her?
15:24
Speaker 4: So, you know, Haley and I have been close for
15:27
Speaker 4: a long time. Her daughter.
15:30
Speaker 5: I kept her overnight for the first time when she
15:32
Speaker 5: was just two weeks old. My daughter is like a
15:36
Speaker 5: little MoMA herself and just loves babies, loves babysitting. And
15:40
Speaker 5: we found out that she had had the baby, and
15:42
Speaker 5: so she's like, mom, can you call Haley have her
15:44
Speaker 5: bring the baby over? And I was like, well, no,
15:47
Speaker 5: you know, she's only two weeks old. I doubt she's
15:49
Speaker 5: gonna do that. But surprisingly, I think Hailey was just
15:52
Speaker 5: exhausted and kind of needed a break, you know.
15:54
Speaker 4: So we kept her.
15:55
Speaker 5: Overnight and then the next day Hailey came and got her,
15:59
Speaker 5: and then it was just kind of like normal.
16:02
Speaker 4: She would message me.
16:03
Speaker 5: Or my daughter and be like, hey, do you want
16:05
Speaker 5: a babysit for a little bit, you know. So then
16:07
Speaker 5: we had her daughter at least a few times a week.
16:11
Speaker 5: Four months before I ended up getting her place with me.
16:15
Speaker 5: She was at our house three to four days sometimes,
16:18
Speaker 5: you know, because they would pay my daughter to babysit,
16:20
Speaker 5: and she's, you know, not going to turn down money.
16:22
Speaker 5: I'm not going to turn down time to spend with
16:24
Speaker 5: a baby. And so she was at our house all
16:27
Speaker 5: the time.
16:27
Speaker 4: Anyways. And then.
16:31
Speaker 5: She September twenty first of twenty twenty two, so.
16:39
Speaker 4: Sorry, she was less than nine months old.
16:44
Speaker 5: Anyways, I got a call from Haley and she was
16:47
Speaker 5: at the hospital with DCYF and they were taking the baby.
16:52
Speaker 5: And so she had asked me if I could foster her,
16:55
Speaker 5: and I personally myself didn't think they would approve me
16:59
Speaker 5: because I said, I've struggled with mental health and chemical
17:02
Speaker 5: dependency in my past as well. You know, I've gotten
17:04
Speaker 5: into some trouble too, And so I was like, well,
17:07
Speaker 5: of course I will, you know, but I doubt they're
17:09
Speaker 5: gonna approve me. And so then I talked to the
17:12
Speaker 5: worker and two hours later there was a knock on
17:15
Speaker 5: my door, and you know, they said it was only
17:17
Speaker 5: going to be for seventy two hours at the time.
17:20
Speaker 4: And that was three and a half years ago.
17:24
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
17:25
Speaker 4: Yeah.
17:27
Speaker 1: And I understand there have been or are coming some
17:30
Speaker 1: shifts with some of the some of Haley's children, and
17:35
Speaker 1: I don't does that involved Does that involve her middle child,
17:39
Speaker 1: the one you.
17:40
Speaker 5: Have, Yes, So her oldest daughter is sixteen and her
17:46
Speaker 5: Haley's mom has custody of her and has since she
17:49
Speaker 5: was three weeks old. I have her middle daughter, who
17:53
Speaker 5: just turned four, and then her younger daughter is two
17:58
Speaker 5: and she's up in federal away with her Hailey's sister Ashley.
18:04
Speaker 4: There.
18:05
Speaker 5: So the younger to his dad just got out of
18:07
Speaker 5: prison back in March and has been.
18:13
Speaker 4: Doing really well.
18:14
Speaker 5: You know, he's been doing everything that DCYF has asked
18:18
Speaker 5: him done. Treatment, got his own housing, got off probation
18:22
Speaker 5: everything like that. So the girls have been actually going
18:25
Speaker 5: and seeing him quite a bit. They have overnights on
18:29
Speaker 5: the weekends and then visits throughout the day.
18:31
Speaker 4: So everything's kind of up in the air right now.
18:34
Speaker 5: Nothing's changed as of yet, but eventually that's where it's
18:38
Speaker 5: looking like the girls are going to be back with
18:40
Speaker 5: their Dada rather than later.
18:43
Speaker 1: Talk to us a little bit about once the missing
18:46
Speaker 1: person case was filed. What do you recollect about the
18:52
Speaker 1: community and law enforcement's reaction and support for you all
18:57
Speaker 1: and for Haley's family.
18:59
Speaker 5: Oh, I honestly, in my opinion, it doesn't seem like
19:06
Speaker 5: law enforcement has really taken it serious. I believe it's
19:13
Speaker 5: mainly been Shasta and everyone that she has gathered to
19:17
Speaker 5: help her. There's been many tips that have came in,
19:21
Speaker 5: and a lot of people have said, you know, like, hey,
19:25
Speaker 5: I reached out to the deputy, you know, with some information,
19:29
Speaker 5: I can't seem to get a hold of them. You know,
19:32
Speaker 5: people would call in tips and it seemed like there
19:35
Speaker 5: was no follow through.
19:38
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's for sure or not.
19:40
Speaker 5: You know, it's just kind of the stigma around it
19:43
Speaker 5: because you know, Haley was an addict, she had mental
19:47
Speaker 5: health issues, you know, and it just seems like it
19:51
Speaker 5: seems like a lot more cases get more like publicity about,
19:56
Speaker 5: you know, more people trying like boots on the ground
19:59
Speaker 5: looking then Haley's case has it just it seems like,
20:06
Speaker 5: I don't know, it just makes me sick just thinking that,
20:08
Speaker 5: you know, just because of her issues, that they aren't
20:12
Speaker 5: giving it as much attention that it seems. And you
20:15
Speaker 5: I mean, I know people, you know, there's a lot
20:17
Speaker 5: of different tips that come in, and if people are
20:20
Speaker 5: following all these tips, that these cops would be following
20:22
Speaker 5: all these tips, they would be running around ragged. I
20:24
Speaker 5: get that, but it's like, you know, numerous people have
20:29
Speaker 5: called in with different tips and it just doesn't seem
20:31
Speaker 5: like any of them were followed up on. And people
20:34
Speaker 5: would have to go through Shasta to get a tip
20:37
Speaker 5: or a message to the detective because he wouldn't return
20:40
Speaker 5: any phone calls to anybody else.
20:43
Speaker 1: Yes, and I hear Shasta talk about, you know, she'd
20:46
Speaker 1: get here about some sort of tip, and it doesn't
20:49
Speaker 1: matter what time of the day or night it is.
20:50
Speaker 1: She's up, she's out, she's going, She's chasing the tip.
20:54
Speaker 1: At like two in the morning, three in the morning,
20:55
Speaker 1: whatever time it is, and then turning it back around
20:58
Speaker 1: to Detective Handburry to give him the information that she's gathered.
21:03
Speaker 1: And this is not unfortunately, this is not unusual. We
21:09
Speaker 1: have a couple of families that we have supported where
21:13
Speaker 1: there's been something that has marginalized the person who is missing,
21:19
Speaker 1: and those families say the same thing. They say, because
21:23
Speaker 1: my son x y Z, we don't feel like law
21:26
Speaker 1: enforcement is doing their due diligence. So it's become kind
21:30
Speaker 1: of a reoccurring story on our side, and so one
21:35
Speaker 1: of our big things is to make sure that we
21:37
Speaker 1: are giving you all an opportunity to talk about Haley
21:40
Speaker 1: as a person and not talk about some of those
21:43
Speaker 1: characteristics and behaviors that she had. And so it's why
21:47
Speaker 1: it's so important for us that we're able to speak
21:49
Speaker 1: with you and just learn about Haley the person.
21:53
Speaker 4: I appreciate that.
21:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, And can you do you recall in some of
21:57
Speaker 1: our other cases that we've covered, there's been as of community,
22:00
Speaker 1: even if it's a small community. We've had people say
22:04
Speaker 1: as soon as somebody was said they were missing, people
22:09
Speaker 1: come and they search, and they walk the roads and
22:11
Speaker 1: they look along the road ways and they look over
22:13
Speaker 1: the embankments because a lot of our people go missing
22:16
Speaker 1: in cars. Do you remember anything happening like that, Like
22:19
Speaker 1: searches that were put just community based searching.
22:24
Speaker 5: The only searches that I'm aware of that have gone
22:27
Speaker 5: on is from what Shasta has pulled together, and she's
22:32
Speaker 5: gone out there. In the beginning, it was almost daily,
22:35
Speaker 5: you know, she there would be different places that she
22:38
Speaker 5: would go search, you know, daily, going door to door,
22:40
Speaker 5: knocking on people's doors, handing out flyers, going anywhere. As
22:45
Speaker 5: far as others, there hasn't been any other searches besides
22:50
Speaker 5: the one that she's put together.
22:53
Speaker 1: Something that is interesting that happened to me personally. When
22:56
Speaker 1: we find out about someone who's missing or solved homicide,
23:01
Speaker 1: I first start out just by seeing what I can
23:03
Speaker 1: learn about that person. You know, have there been news reports,
23:07
Speaker 1: Have there been you know, Facebook groups? And of course
23:09
Speaker 1: I found the Facebook group right away. When I went
23:12
Speaker 1: outside of that, I wasn't really able to find very
23:15
Speaker 1: much about Haley. In fact, something that I did find
23:19
Speaker 1: that Shasta and I talked about wasn't even about Hailey.
23:21
Speaker 1: It was about somebody else. Because the Google searches was
23:24
Speaker 1: just like combining things and it just is unnerving. I
23:28
Speaker 1: guess to me that there didn't appear to be a
23:31
Speaker 1: lot of press acknowledging that she had been missing, even
23:35
Speaker 1: like a local paper or local Facebook group or something
23:37
Speaker 1: like that. And that's just again something that we hear
23:42
Speaker 1: unfortunately quite often true. Yeah, why do you think that
23:48
Speaker 1: this that Haley has not been found or what do
23:51
Speaker 1: you think are some barriers perhaps maybe somebody knows something,
23:56
Speaker 1: or what do you think is preventing this from maybe
24:00
Speaker 1: moving forward?
24:01
Speaker 4: Well, I know somebody knows something.
24:03
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, whoever did this knows exactly where
24:07
Speaker 5: she is. I also believe that in that lifestyle, people
24:14
Speaker 5: are afraid of what's going to happen to them if
24:16
Speaker 5: they come forward with any kind of truth, any kind
24:20
Speaker 5: of evidence, because there's always a backlash or people getting
24:23
Speaker 5: back at people for you know.
24:25
Speaker 4: Going to the cops and snitching is what they call it.
24:28
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know.
24:33
Speaker 5: This person that is supposedly responsible for her disappearance knows
24:40
Speaker 5: the woods like the back of his hand. He's grown
24:42
Speaker 5: up in the woods. He's lived his whole life out there,
24:45
Speaker 5: and so I just I believe that he's really good
24:50
Speaker 5: at hiding things that he doesn't want to be found.
24:53
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know.
24:57
Speaker 5: I'm just at a loss for words with how long
24:59
Speaker 5: it's been and we've found absolutely nothing.
25:03
Speaker 3: One thing I'm curious about is, you know, we talked
25:06
Speaker 3: about this mushroom picking you kind of weekend. Is this
25:09
Speaker 3: something she normally did not.
25:12
Speaker 4: That I know of.
25:14
Speaker 5: I But like I said, I, you know, haven't been
25:17
Speaker 5: in her life for the past few years, so I
25:19
Speaker 5: don't know what she was doing day to day. When
25:22
Speaker 5: you're in that life, it's just kind of spur of
25:25
Speaker 5: the moment. Every day, you know, somebody brings you an
25:27
Speaker 5: idea you want to go do this for the day,
25:29
Speaker 5: and you're like, oh, yeah, that sounds fun.
25:30
Speaker 4: So I don't know.
25:32
Speaker 5: I know she did like to go out and go
25:35
Speaker 5: to the river or go, you know, on a hike
25:37
Speaker 5: and look for different rocks and agots and stuff like that,
25:40
Speaker 5: so it's not too far out of you know, the
25:43
Speaker 5: stretch of things that she would like to do as
25:46
Speaker 5: far as mushroom picking. I personally have never heard her
25:49
Speaker 5: going mushroom picking, but you know, our relationships kind of
25:53
Speaker 5: been changed the last few years, so I don't know.
25:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reason I asked, is because I do know
25:58
Speaker 3: people who do that in Colorado when we live and
26:01
Speaker 3: most of the people that I knew did that were
26:03
Speaker 3: really into it, like they would go out with books
26:07
Speaker 3: and they had all this research they've done. It doesn't
26:09
Speaker 3: seem like a spur of the moment thing, which is
26:11
Speaker 3: why I thought it was strange.
26:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what the person claimed.
26:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you can go out there and pick something
26:20
Speaker 3: that can hurt you if you don't really know what
26:21
Speaker 3: you're looking for her with those Yeah, exactly.
26:25
Speaker 1: I would love to have more information about some of
26:29
Speaker 1: the interviews that were conducted, particularly with this person that
26:34
Speaker 1: we know for a fact was the last person to
26:38
Speaker 1: see her and came out of this area on his own.
26:41
Speaker 1: And I have requested records from local law enforcement, and
26:46
Speaker 1: because it's an active case, we're not getting anything, which
26:49
Speaker 1: we completely understand because we don't want to compromise what's
26:52
Speaker 1: going on in the case. But I'm just wondering if
26:54
Speaker 1: there's been any chatter in the community about what has
26:58
Speaker 1: been said from any who has been interviewed, or if
27:02
Speaker 1: anyone knows anything about what was said.
27:04
Speaker 5: All that I know is that this person and Hailey
27:09
Speaker 5: supposedly went out to Rose Valley to go mushroom picking.
27:13
Speaker 5: He sent a friend, you know, hours later a message saying,
27:18
Speaker 5: I need help. I'm out at this location. I lost
27:23
Speaker 5: my friend. I need you to come pick me up.
27:25
Speaker 5: As far as any other statements, I don't know. Supposedly,
27:29
Speaker 5: the Shasta said the cops had even interviewed this person
27:32
Speaker 5: and asked him, you know, when was the last time
27:34
Speaker 5: he saw Haley.
27:35
Speaker 4: And he had even told the.
27:37
Speaker 5: Cops that they were out of the woods and this time,
27:40
Speaker 5: you know, and that he lost her and that was that,
27:43
Speaker 5: like he just lost her.
27:44
Speaker 4: They didn't follow up on it anymore. I don't know.
27:50
Speaker 1: Tell us about the impact that her disappearance has had
27:53
Speaker 1: on you.
27:54
Speaker 5: It's been really hard, you know, Like I said, her
27:58
Speaker 5: and I have lost condact lost, not really contact, but
28:02
Speaker 5: our relationships changed, you know, over the few years that
28:05
Speaker 5: I've had her daughter, and you know, it has played
28:10
Speaker 5: a big guilt trip on me, thinking, you know, maybe
28:15
Speaker 5: I should have reached out more, Maybe I should have
28:17
Speaker 5: you know, tried to do this or do that. And
28:21
Speaker 5: I mean, at the end of the day, I know
28:22
Speaker 5: that I did the right thing, and I'm taking care
28:24
Speaker 5: of her daughter. Like she had asked me to, you know,
28:26
Speaker 5: and she knows that I love her and I had
28:28
Speaker 5: tried numerous times to reach out and get her into
28:31
Speaker 5: treatment and you know, get her help. But it's it's
28:35
Speaker 5: just been really hard because you know, I look at
28:38
Speaker 5: her daughter and I'm not her mom, you know, Like
28:42
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm her mom every day, you know, but
28:44
Speaker 5: I'm not.
28:45
Speaker 4: Her birth mom.
28:45
Speaker 5: And I I see Haley in her every single day,
28:49
Speaker 5: and that's just it's good and bad, you know, Like
28:52
Speaker 5: I see the best.
28:53
Speaker 4: Parts of Haley every day. She has her.
28:55
Speaker 5: Smile, her quirky dance, moves, her laugh, you know, she's
28:59
Speaker 5: Hailey and a little girl. And at the same time
29:02
Speaker 5: that just breaks my heart because she'll never get to
29:05
Speaker 5: meet her mom, you know, and see the amazing person
29:09
Speaker 5: that Haley is. And it's just I don't know, it's
29:13
Speaker 5: hard because it's just a constant reminder of what a
29:16
Speaker 5: beautiful person Haley was or is, you know, and I
29:21
Speaker 5: just it just messes with my head a lot and
29:24
Speaker 5: makes me feel like I should have done different and
29:26
Speaker 5: I should have you know, played both sides and like
29:30
Speaker 5: helped her as much as I could while at the
29:32
Speaker 5: same time raising her daughter.
29:33
Speaker 4: And doing everything that I'm doing.
29:35
Speaker 3: But I don't.
29:37
Speaker 4: It's it's been really hard.
29:39
Speaker 5: You know, Haley and I have had our ups and
29:41
Speaker 5: downs and our friendships, but we've had a lot of
29:43
Speaker 5: really good times together. You know, she is an amazing
29:47
Speaker 5: person and like I said, her smile could light up
29:49
Speaker 5: the room, and she was funny, and she was, you know,
29:52
Speaker 5: a really good friend and always there to help you
29:55
Speaker 5: if needed.
29:56
Speaker 4: And it's just it's been really hard.
30:00
Speaker 1: Are there anything that you wanted to share or anything
30:02
Speaker 1: that you wanted to say that we did not give
30:04
Speaker 1: you an opportunity to say.
30:06
Speaker 4: Just that.
30:07
Speaker 5: You know, we need answers. We need you know, she
30:10
Speaker 5: has three girls that are missing their mom. You know,
30:15
Speaker 5: they they deserve answers. Her mom deserves answers, Her family
30:20
Speaker 5: deserves answers. You know, it's she wasn't just another you know,
30:26
Speaker 5: drug addict, somebody with mental health issues that had gotten missing.
30:30
Speaker 4: Like she is an amazing person.
30:32
Speaker 5: You know, she has family and friends and people that
30:35
Speaker 5: love her, and we just want answers.
30:41
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30:45
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30:48
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