Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Vinnie Goowill on Why the 1996 USA Team was WAY better than you remember | 07.21

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Vinnie Goowill on Why the 1996 USA Team was WAY better than you remember | 07.21 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

0:09
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original.
0:13
Speaker 1: My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
0:15
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
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Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
0:21
Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe. You are
0:24
Speaker 1: a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday. Coming to us live,
0:28
Speaker 1: we got our man from ESPN covering the NBA, Vinny Goodwill,
0:32
Speaker 1: joining us to talk about Dream Team 3.
0:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, I didn't know if
0:39
Speaker 2: you referred, I don't know if you referred to that
0:42
Speaker 2: as Dream Team 3 because some people referred to the
0:45
Speaker 2: 96 team as Dream Team 2 and the 94 World
0:50
Speaker 2: Championships team as Dream Team 2.
0:53
Speaker 3: It's a weird thing. It all depends on branding.
0:56
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing for me. I was there for it,
0:59
Speaker 1: and I remember when the 94 team came around, we
1:01
Speaker 1: called it Dream Team 2. Making the 96 team Dream
1:06
Speaker 1: Team 2 is.
1:07
Speaker 4: Acting like that didn't happen.
1:08
Speaker 1: We were here. And I actually wanted to bring that
1:10
Speaker 1: up because part of what's interesting about this is the
1:13
Speaker 1: first Dream Team obviously had an unreal level of star
1:17
Speaker 1: power and, of course, a level of talent. But it's
1:21
Speaker 1: Magic Johnson hadn't played NBA basketball for a year. Larry
1:24
Speaker 1: Bird was on the verge of retiring. One might argue
1:30
Speaker 1: that there were two Hall of Fame centers on the team,
1:32
Speaker 1: but not the best center in the NBA because Olajuwon
1:35
Speaker 1: was not on that team. It was Ewing and Robinson.
1:38
Speaker 1: Isaiah Thomas was not there. John Stockton was. Chris Mullen,
1:43
Speaker 1: in retrospect, is like, huh, isn't that interesting? But as
1:47
Speaker 1: good as that team was, USA basketball for the next
1:51
Speaker 1: couple of runs kept putting together really strong teams. And
1:55
Speaker 1: the first one was the 94 world championship team that played.
1:58
Speaker 1: I think that was in Canada that year. Yeah. I'm
2:00
Speaker 1: looking at this roster. I know this isn't going to
2:03
Speaker 1: sound like it to people, but Derek Coleman, who if
2:07
Speaker 1: we're just talking about talent, Derek Coleman was out of
2:11
Speaker 1: this world. Like the 1994 version of Derek Coleman is
2:14
Speaker 1: actually a really good play. Yes.
2:17
Speaker 3: No, Derek Coleman is the prototype. Isn't he the.
2:21
Speaker 2: Prototype of what you want, even today, what you want
2:24
Speaker 2: a power forward to be?
2:25
Speaker 3: Finish at the rim, ambidextrous, can shoot, can move.
2:29
Speaker 1: Handles.
2:32
Speaker 3: And he was a lefty.
2:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. He's even more of a prototype than Rasheed Wallace
2:38
Speaker 1: because Wallace was not giving you the handles and the
2:40
Speaker 1: wiggle that Derek Coleman was. We strictly think of Derek
2:44
Speaker 1: Coleman as wasted potential, but he was also a really
2:48
Speaker 1: good player.
2:50
Speaker 2: Dude, it's hard to, like, it's one of those things
2:53
Speaker 2: where you kind of have to be there. And luckily
2:55
Speaker 2: for me, like, growing up in Detroit, and he's a
2:58
Speaker 2: Detroit import, so to speak.
2:59
Speaker 3: Like, he grew up in Alabama. He kind of started
3:01
Speaker 3: off in Alabama, then came to Detroit.
3:02
Speaker 2: But he hit that sort of Detroit game. Like, you
3:05
Speaker 2: see Derek Coleman and Chris Webber. Like, you see it
3:09
Speaker 2: in the, you don't see it in the athleticism, because
3:11
Speaker 2: Chris was just a freak. But you see it in
3:13
Speaker 2: the skill and the fact that there was legit, Nothing
3:17
Speaker 2: he couldn't do to the fact that if the man
3:20
Speaker 2: didn't show up to practice, that's why he gave us
3:22
Speaker 2: the greatest single quote of all time.
3:27
Speaker 3: Well, whoop-dee-damn-do.
3:28
Speaker 1: Whoop-dee-damn-do. Well, there's that quote, and this is some of
3:33
Speaker 1: the most disrespectful shit of all time, and it's especially
3:36
Speaker 1: disrespectful because he did it to the brother man. It's
3:39
Speaker 1: him coming at the beginning of the NBA season and
3:41
Speaker 1: giving Butch Beard a blank check saying, just fill it
3:44
Speaker 1: out with my fines.
3:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
3:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a tough break. That was a tough break.
3:50
Speaker 1: Hold on. We got Joe Dumars.
3:51
Speaker 2: All this butch beard wanted him to show up with
3:52
Speaker 2: a suit coming on the flights and stuff.
3:55
Speaker 3: He just wanted to dress. That's it.
3:57
Speaker 1: That's it.
3:58
Speaker 3: That's it.
3:58
Speaker 4: Nobody asking that much, to be perfectly honest. Joe Dumars, who.
4:05
Speaker 1: Joe Dumars, he looks so old. That was the thing.
4:09
Speaker 1: It feels like Joe Dumars is too old to be
4:11
Speaker 1: on this team, but he really wasn't. This is about, what,
4:14
Speaker 1: year 10 Dumars or year 9?
4:17
Speaker 3: Year nine.
4:18
Speaker 2: I think Joe spent four years in college.
4:21
Speaker 1: Yeah.
4:21
Speaker 3: But even if you look at young Joe Dumars. Yeah.
4:26
Speaker 3: If you look at young Joe Dumars, and that wasn't young.
4:29
Speaker 2: That was sort of like right tail middle of his prime.
4:32
Speaker 3: Even young Joe Dumars looked like old Joe Dumars.
4:35
Speaker 2: When he was the young guy on the team, he
4:37
Speaker 2: looked like a dude that had just headed with everybody's
4:40
Speaker 2: shit at that point. You know what I mean? That's
4:43
Speaker 2: just where he was. And he was the veteran presence.
4:47
Speaker 2: so to speak, on a team full of the rascals. Like,
4:50
Speaker 2: that team was just full of rascals and rapscallions.
4:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we go to Kevin Johnson, Larry Johnson,
4:56
Speaker 1: great what-if case, Sean Kemp, whoo! That's a had-to-be-there all-star, right? Like,
5:02
Speaker 1: at least it comes up in the YouTube videos, but still,
5:04
Speaker 1: you just kind of had to be there. Like, he's
5:06
Speaker 1: the rare guy that... People are like, oh, you're just
5:08
Speaker 1: getting nostalgic about dudes. He's one where that might be
5:11
Speaker 1: the case, right? At his best, he was very good,
5:13
Speaker 1: but he is not quite as good as we remember
5:15
Speaker 1: because in that Hall of Fame that lets everybody in,
5:18
Speaker 1: none of us have been like, where is Sean Kelly?
5:20
Speaker 2: Well, the weird thing is he's the one guy who
5:25
Speaker 2: can say, I had a better NBA finals than Michael Jordan.
5:30
Speaker 2: You could make the argument that two years later in 96,
5:34
Speaker 2: when he put it all together and and Seattle went
5:37
Speaker 2: from being the team that was perpetually disappointing to getting
5:40
Speaker 2: to the Finals, he took Dennis Rodman to the woodshed
5:44
Speaker 2: that entire season. We forget about it because Seattle went
5:48
Speaker 2: down three games to none.
5:49
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
5:50
Speaker 2: And that was the Bulls' 72-10 season, and the Bulls
5:53
Speaker 2: tricked off those two games in Seattle in that 2-3-2 setup.
5:56
Speaker 3: But look at those numbers in that series. Sean Kemp
5:59
Speaker 3: was a freak. That was Jordan's worst Finals. all things considered,
6:05
Speaker 3: like if we're saying.
6:06
Speaker 1: Jordan was still dominating their whole backcourt, like he was
6:09
Speaker 1: outscoring Peyton and Hersey Hawkins combined in those games.
6:13
Speaker 2: That was a weird, that was a weird series, but
6:16
Speaker 2: you put Sean Kemp in 96 up against any other
6:21
Speaker 2: guy at his peak against Michael Jordan in the finals.
6:25
Speaker 3: He matches up with all those dudes.
6:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
6:27
Speaker 1: I mean, who else is on this team? Dan Marley's
6:29
Speaker 1: on this team. Reggie Miller's on this team. Alonzo Mourning
6:32
Speaker 1: and Shaq are on this team. Mark Price, the rare
6:39
Speaker 1: phenomenon of the underrated Caucasian. Love Mark Price. That's another
6:44
Speaker 1: had-to-be-there guy. Mark Price is 6'1, 170 pounds, and made
6:48
Speaker 1: first team All-NBA.
6:51
Speaker 2: Is... Is Mark Price analogous to like, is he like
6:55
Speaker 2: the prototype before Steve Nash?
6:58
Speaker 1: The difference is Nash is so much bigger than him.
7:02
Speaker 1: And I feel like Price was a more willing scorer.
7:06
Speaker 3: Yes. He was.
7:09
Speaker 2: He was more willing to shoot. And because of the
7:11
Speaker 2: way the league was, he had to go down there
7:13
Speaker 2: and take that contact.
7:14
Speaker 1: He did.
7:15
Speaker 2: He was catching concussions and things like that. When we
7:18
Speaker 2: talk about teams that were kind of lost to time,
7:21
Speaker 2: to the Michael Jordan Bulls, the Cleveland Cavaliers caught the
7:25
Speaker 2: Blues the most. Like they lost to them in 89
7:27
Speaker 2: on the shot when they had beaten Cleveland, when Cleveland
7:30
Speaker 2: had beaten the Bulls all six times during that regular season.
7:34
Speaker 2: Lost to them again in the 92 conference finals, got
7:37
Speaker 2: swept in 93. And then by the end, that was
7:40
Speaker 2: kind of like the end of it. But that was
7:42
Speaker 2: like the run, like their window was kind of 89
7:44
Speaker 2: to 93. And Detroit was better than them. And then
7:48
Speaker 2: Chicago kept beating them. So they never were like really able.
7:52
Speaker 2: But I don't hold that against Mark Price. I hold
7:54
Speaker 2: that against other dudes on that team. Yes.
7:57
Speaker 1: Also, this team has Steve Smith and a little lifetime
8:00
Speaker 1: achievement award for Dominique Wilkins, who is still a good player.
8:03
Speaker 1: Like that was the year that the Hawks decided they
8:05
Speaker 1: didn't want me to root for them no more. You know,
8:08
Speaker 1: and so that's the 94 team. They were cold. Like,
8:12
Speaker 1: you know, like. Shaq, after two years in the NBA,
8:15
Speaker 1: was unreal. Alonzo Mourning, we forget about if Shaq had
8:20
Speaker 1: not been what Shaq was when he first got there.
8:22
Speaker 1: Alonzo Mourning still walked in the door, 20-10, hit that
8:24
Speaker 1: big shot to win the playoffs in 93 against Boston. Like,
8:28
Speaker 1: he was an immediate impact player. Like, this was a really, really,
8:33
Speaker 1: really good team, and the 96 team blows this team
8:38
Speaker 1: out of the water.
8:40
Speaker 3: Yes, like.
8:42
Speaker 2: If you think, if you just, the part is we
8:44
Speaker 2: put Dream Team on such like a pedestal, right? And
8:46
Speaker 2: you kind of broke down where Magic was, where Bird was,
8:50
Speaker 2: the fact that.
8:50
Speaker 3: You didn't even have the best center in the league.
8:53
Speaker 2: The only person that you were missing from 96 is.
8:56
Speaker 3: The greatest player to ever play.
8:58
Speaker 2: But when you take that away, and that's no small feat,
9:02
Speaker 2: but think of the fact that you had Elijah Wan, Shaq,
9:07
Speaker 2: and David Robinson. Legitimately, you could make the argument, That,
9:13
Speaker 2: let's see, one, two, three, four. The seven best players
9:16
Speaker 2: in basketball, minus number one, was on that team in
9:20
Speaker 2: the NBA, in the Dream Team.
9:22
Speaker 3: Like, period, point blank.
9:24
Speaker 2: From Penny Hardaway, the best of Penny Hardaway, to the
9:26
Speaker 2: best we were going to see of Grant Hill.
9:28
Speaker 3: Well, hold on, hold on, hold.
9:29
Speaker 1: On, hold on. Let's take a minute, let's take a minute,
9:30
Speaker 1: let's take a minute. Let's give them to people in
9:33
Speaker 1: a digestible format, because you're about to run away. You're
9:35
Speaker 1: about to run away with us, okay?
9:36
Speaker 3: My bad, my bad, my bad.
9:37
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you're good, you're good, though. It's a
9:39
Speaker 1: good preview, it's a good preview. So to me, the
9:41
Speaker 1: thing about this team that is easy to forget is
9:45
Speaker 1: how many guys came back. Right. This is quietly for
9:50
Speaker 1: David Robinson, his third straight Olympics because he was on
9:54
Speaker 1: the 98 team because uh he had been the 98
9:57
Speaker 1: olympics came after he had finished college but while he
10:00
Speaker 1: was still on the boat 88 88 so it's while
10:02
Speaker 1: he was still yeah 88 so it's while he was
10:04
Speaker 1: still on the boat so he got to well he
10:07
Speaker 1: had the privilege regarding our venus and bonus uh in
10:10
Speaker 1: 1988 and that did not go as well as he
10:12
Speaker 1: would have preferred, but he was on the 92 team.
10:14
Speaker 1: He was on this one, Charles Barkley, who prior to
10:18
Speaker 1: like Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony really had a claim to
10:20
Speaker 1: be in like the greatest USA Olympian ever. Cause he
10:23
Speaker 1: was the leading scorer in both of those Olympic teams.
10:25
Speaker 1: But he would, would people try to get on that?
10:28
Speaker 1: Like a Draymond Green messed up on that. Houston Rockets,
10:31
Speaker 1: Charles Barkley. The 1996 version of Charles Barkley was still
10:34
Speaker 1: the leading scorer on the Olympic team. Like, Houston Rockets'
10:38
Speaker 1: Charles Barkley was still a very good player. Like, Houston Rockets'
10:42
Speaker 1: Charles Barkley is like late 70s James Brown. No, dog,
10:45
Speaker 1: he was still jamming. Believe it or not. Sounds crazy,
10:48
Speaker 1: but he was.
10:49
Speaker 3: No, here's the crazy thing.
10:51
Speaker 2: And if you think about it, and this is something
10:54
Speaker 2: I literally thought about maybe in the past couple of
10:56
Speaker 2: weeks just because my brain goes weird. The fact that
11:00
Speaker 2: all Charles Barkley needed to do in the summers was
11:02
Speaker 2: play high level basketball. And then he'd go and have
11:05
Speaker 2: a great season the next year because he was in
11:08
Speaker 2: shape and then had to play himself in the shape. 92,
11:11
Speaker 2: he was arguably the best player on that team with
11:13
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan. Then 93, he goes and wins MVP with
11:16
Speaker 2: Phoenix because the man's in shape and then he got traded.
11:19
Speaker 2: In 96, he's on his way out of Phoenix, headed
11:23
Speaker 2: to Houston. Go look at 97 Barkley. He was still
11:28
Speaker 2: an absolute monster. He might not have led the league
11:32
Speaker 2: in rebounding, but he might have been at least 20
11:33
Speaker 2: and 14.
11:34
Speaker 1: No, Dennis Rodman was still around, so he did not
11:36
Speaker 1: lead the league in rebounding, but he was still that guy.
11:40
Speaker 3: Yes.
11:40
Speaker 1: Let me stop. He was not that guy. He's not
11:44
Speaker 1: 1993 Charles or 1990 Charles, but he was probably the
11:48
Speaker 1: best number three player anybody had on their roster.
11:52
Speaker 3: I mean, was he the second best player.
11:55
Speaker 1: On the roster? He was probably better than Clyde, but
11:58
Speaker 1: he was the third option. He took that role on. Right, right, right.
12:02
Speaker 3: And I remember him saying, I can't be the best
12:04
Speaker 3: player on the team.
12:05
Speaker 2: I have to go and do these other things, the
12:08
Speaker 2: rebounding and everything else. You know, I'm going to control
12:10
Speaker 2: the glass. And then, like, you know, you go to
12:13
Speaker 2: the other power forward on the team.
12:15
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
12:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, Karl Malone comes back. And look, at this point,
12:19
Speaker 1: Karl Malone was eight. if nothing else, an incredible regular
12:22
Speaker 1: season basketball player. Like, there's no way around it. Nobody
12:25
Speaker 1: likes to say nice things about Karl Malone. I mean,
12:28
Speaker 1: I sure as hell don't. Maybe you like to say
12:30
Speaker 1: nice things about Karl Malone. Not you. I'm talking about, like,
12:32
Speaker 1: just the other kind. I don't like to do it.
12:34
Speaker 1: But Karl Malone was a bad motherfucker. Like, there wasn't...
12:37
Speaker 1: The thing with Karl Malone is the only person that
12:39
Speaker 1: could stop Karl Malone was Karl Malone. And lucky for
12:42
Speaker 1: the rest of the league, Karl Malone was good at
12:44
Speaker 1: stopping himself. But he and Stockton back on the Olympic
12:48
Speaker 1: team again. Those two dudes. And by the way, we've
12:52
Speaker 1: talked about, I don't know if I've talked about this
12:53
Speaker 1: on this show, but the most amazing thing ever about
12:57
Speaker 1: John Stockton and Karl Malone, they are easily the most
13:01
Speaker 1: durable players ever. in the history of the NBA. Like there's,
13:04
Speaker 1: I think Will Chamberlain played every game, but these dudes basically,
13:08
Speaker 1: I think Stockton had that one injury that one year
13:11
Speaker 1: early in his career.
13:12
Speaker 4: And then after that, them.
13:13
Speaker 1: Boys played 82 every year, unless Carl Malone elbowed somebody
13:18
Speaker 1: in the face or something that got suspended. They basically
13:21
Speaker 1: went like 16, 17 years of playing every night, including
13:26
Speaker 1: playing these Olympics.
13:28
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Stockton, I want to say Stockton had
13:31
Speaker 2: a knee surgery in 97.
13:34
Speaker 1: Going into 98.
13:35
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, in the offseason. Right.
13:38
Speaker 1: Right.
13:38
Speaker 2: And he missed like the first maybe 20 or 30
13:41
Speaker 2: games of that season. And they still want to make
13:42
Speaker 2: it to the finals. And Karl Malone didn't miss significant
13:45
Speaker 2: time until he got to L.A. And that was in 2003, 2004.
13:48
Speaker 3: He was 40 years old. Yeah. And they start like
13:49
Speaker 3: 18 and one.
13:53
Speaker 2: And I want to say, you know, he tore up
13:55
Speaker 2: his knee or something like that. And then, you know,
13:57
Speaker 2: missed the big part of that season. But they were
14:00
Speaker 2: legitimately indestructible. And it was partly because John Stockton was
14:05
Speaker 2: a low-light maintenance player. Like, it wasn't a whole lot
14:08
Speaker 2: of variance and gravity. He wasn't taking a whole lot
14:10
Speaker 2: of risks. Like, he was setting, like, the dirty screens
14:13
Speaker 2: and everything else. But he wasn't, like, flying through the air,
14:16
Speaker 2: initiating a lot of collisions. He was just a tough bastard.
14:19
Speaker 2: And I say that with the most sort of respect
14:23
Speaker 2: that I can have about him. Now, if I say
14:25
Speaker 2: that about Karl Malone, trust me, I'm not saying that
14:27
Speaker 2: with the utmost respect.
14:29
Speaker 3: He got, he got like skins on.
14:31
Speaker 2: The wall of people he done elbowed in the face
14:35
Speaker 2: on purpose, including giving Zeke.
14:37
Speaker 1: Tell the people where you're from. Tell the people where
14:39
Speaker 1: you're from. Tell the people where you're from. Tell the
14:41
Speaker 1: people where you're from. Or did you already just do it? Okay.
14:44
Speaker 1: You've taken care of it.
14:48
Speaker 3: I am from Detroit.
14:48
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, y'all. Now, look, you see that where Kenny
14:51
Speaker 1: Martin talks about, because Kenny Martin, who's from Dallas when
14:54
Speaker 1: he was born in Saginaw, talks about the first time
14:56
Speaker 1: he played Carl Malone.
14:57
Speaker 4: He stole off all of it in the game and
14:59
Speaker 4: said that was physique.
15:02
Speaker 3: That's how we feel.
15:03
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:04
Speaker 4: Y'all take that one seriously.
15:07
Speaker 1: Seriously. By the way, speaking of that 94 team, Isaiah
15:10
Speaker 1: was supposed to be on it, but that's when he
15:13
Speaker 1: had the Achilles chair.
15:15
Speaker 2: I mean, if there's one person, and this is not
15:17
Speaker 2: the Detroit Vinny coming out, but if there's one person
15:21
Speaker 2: who's gotten royally screwed in terms of USA basketball, like
15:25
Speaker 2: go back to the 1980 Pan Am Games, the boycott
15:28
Speaker 2: that prevented him from going over there and getting a
15:32
Speaker 2: gold medal.
15:32
Speaker 4: Oh, no, those aren't the Pan Am Games. Those are
15:34
Speaker 4: the Olympics.
15:35
Speaker 3: Those are the Olympics. I'm sorry, not the Pan Am.
15:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:37
Speaker 2: He doesn't get a chance to go to the Olympics.
15:39
Speaker 2: He would have been on that Olympic team. let's assume
15:42
Speaker 2: they would have gotten gold because that's all the U.S.
15:44
Speaker 2: did until 88. Like, and then 92, we don't got
15:47
Speaker 2: to talk about that. He got screwed by everybody. Everybody's
15:50
Speaker 2: hands is on that knife.
15:52
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?
15:52
Speaker 2: And then in this, in the Worlds, he pops his
15:55
Speaker 2: Achilles on the very last game, his last home game
15:58
Speaker 2: against the Orlando Magic on April 15, 1994. Like, we
16:02
Speaker 2: knew he was retiring, but we thought, like Bird, like Magic,
16:05
Speaker 2: that he would at least get, like, the farewell and
16:07
Speaker 2: be able to get some type of gold medal.
16:09
Speaker 3: And he doesn't get that. He gets screwed.
16:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:11
Speaker 1: Although I will make this point about 80. It would
16:12
Speaker 1: have been interesting because the only time the U.S. did
16:14
Speaker 1: not win the gold was in 1972, and it definitely
16:17
Speaker 1: looked like they was out here cheating. And the 1980
16:20
Speaker 1: games would have been in Moscow. Just throwing it out there.
16:23
Speaker 1: Just throwing it out there.
16:24
Speaker 4: Doug Collins, 50 however many years over it. He ain't
16:27
Speaker 4: been right since.
16:28
Speaker 1: No.
16:31
Speaker 3: No, no, Doug is, and Doug ain't wrapped too tight anyway.
16:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, I don't know what he
16:35
Speaker 4: was before that.
16:36
Speaker 1: I feel like the Russians might have fucked around and
16:38
Speaker 1: broke him, but he ain't been right since. But who
16:40
Speaker 1: else we had? Scottie Pippen was on this team. Like,
16:43
Speaker 1: it's actually interesting to think that players of that level,
16:47
Speaker 1: they came back for this team because after this is
16:49
Speaker 1: when guys kind of stopped going, right? And that kind
16:51
Speaker 1: of leads you to 2004. when it's not really a
16:54
Speaker 1: roster to speak of. But they brought all these guys
16:58
Speaker 1: back onto the team, and then we're adding the 1996
17:02
Speaker 1: versions of Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Mitch Richmond. Reggie Miller,
17:10
Speaker 1: who by now has established himself as superstar is unfair,
17:14
Speaker 1: but as a superstar, I'll put it like this, he's
17:18
Speaker 1: a playoff superstar.
17:19
Speaker 3: Yes.
17:20
Speaker 1: He has established himself as being a for-real deal somebody,
17:23
Speaker 1: and he is the best player on a team that
17:25
Speaker 1: is now a very regular contender at this point. It
17:30
Speaker 1: makes more sense that Reggie Miller's on this team than
17:31
Speaker 1: Chris Mullen was on the last one, but they needed
17:33
Speaker 1: some white boys.
17:34
Speaker 4: This time, they were like, John Stockton?
17:36
Speaker 1: Good enough.
17:39
Speaker 4: Then we add Shaquille O'Neal.
17:42
Speaker 1: Then we add Gary Payton, who is the biggest John
17:45
Speaker 1: Stockton fan of all time. That's also a fascinating thing
17:48
Speaker 1: about the NBA. Gary Payton called him Mr.
17:51
Speaker 3: Stockton. Yes.
17:52
Speaker 1: Right? You see that clip of Baron Davis and him
17:54
Speaker 1: talking about that? I forget who it was, but it's
17:56
Speaker 1: like Gary Payne's going to be like, when you show
17:57
Speaker 1: that Mr. Stockton, respect when he shows up here. Baron
18:01
Speaker 1: Davis is talking about that. I just out here watching,
18:03
Speaker 1: whoever it was, was like, man, I'd be just watching
18:06
Speaker 1: John Stockton just walk people down wherever he goes. He
18:09
Speaker 1: ain't about to do that to me. And then Baron
18:10
Speaker 1: Davis pops up, and next thing you know, he's just
18:13
Speaker 1: walking you down. You're like, it ain't going to happen
18:15
Speaker 1: to me. And it happened to everybody.
18:18
Speaker 3: You think it don't happen to you? Till it do.
18:20
Speaker 1: Till it do. Till it do. But Gary Payton, and then, then,
18:25
Speaker 1: somebody went and got his paperwork, and Kim Olajuwon was
18:30
Speaker 1: now playing for the United States. And I wonder if
18:34
Speaker 1: that happened now because they got enough cats, if he
18:36
Speaker 1: would have played for the Nigerian team, and then it
18:39
Speaker 1: would have got very interesting. out there. But for now, no.
18:43
Speaker 1: Olajuwon is on. You're bringing Shaq off the bench. And
18:49
Speaker 1: David Robinson, who time has underrated in large part because
18:53
Speaker 1: of what Olajuwon did to him in 95. If you
18:57
Speaker 1: drop David Robinson into today's NBA, you know.
19:02
Speaker 4: What David Robinson is in today's NBA?
19:05
Speaker 1: What you would like him to be.
19:08
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
19:10
Speaker 2: I wonder if you drop David Robinson in today's game,
19:14
Speaker 2: if he's not a seven foot small forward. Because remember,
19:18
Speaker 2: he grew. He was a six foot. He was a
19:21
Speaker 2: six six dude on the boat. And then all of
19:23
Speaker 2: a sudden came back a seven footer. So by that
19:26
Speaker 2: point of basketball training and the basketball industrial complex and
19:29
Speaker 2: everything else, he's a ball handling. He's a basketball handling.
19:33
Speaker 2: And he was like the dude who was the physical specimen, too.
19:37
Speaker 2: He would have been... There's no prototype for him, is it?
19:40
Speaker 1: That's why I said Embiid. I'm just thinking about somebody
19:45
Speaker 1: seven feet.
19:47
Speaker 4: Robinson wasn't 270 pounds, but like.
19:50
Speaker 4: Seven feet but.
19:52
Speaker 1: Built like that faced the basket, had a handle, had
19:56
Speaker 1: a J. So one, he would have had more range.
19:58
Speaker 1: It's the same thing with Olajuwon. Olajuwon would have had
20:02
Speaker 1: a much different range if he played. Olajuwon, ultimately, he
20:06
Speaker 1: wasn't as athletic as John Smith, but you could put
20:10
Speaker 1: the dreams of what John Smith could be. Think about Olajuwon,
20:13
Speaker 1: who's really like 6'9 1⁄2. who had handles, who had
20:18
Speaker 1: all those moves, great rebounder, the best pound-for-pound shot blocker
20:23
Speaker 1: that ever played in the league. And you put him
20:28
Speaker 1: in today's paradigm.
20:31
Speaker 2: The question becomes, and this is so weird that we
20:34
Speaker 2: land here, the question becomes, can he develop as a
20:37
Speaker 2: basketball player with those soccer skills.
20:40
Speaker 3: At the same time?
20:41
Speaker 1: Yes.
20:42
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, today everything's specialized.
20:45
Speaker 2: So he gets the footwork.
20:46
Speaker 4: So you're asking, is it possible for him to show
20:48
Speaker 4: up late to basketball?
20:50
Speaker 1: Right.
20:51
Speaker 4: This is my read on that.
20:53
Speaker 1: And I don't know exactly how things work in Nigeria.
20:58
Speaker 1: But he was going to be playing soccer. You understand
21:00
Speaker 1: what I'm saying?
21:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:03
Speaker 1: Let's get just straight right now. He was going to
21:06
Speaker 1: be playing some soccer. And then at some point, somebody
21:10
Speaker 1: going to roll the ball to him. And then from there,
21:12
Speaker 1: we get that figured out. But that's a good question.
21:13
Speaker 1: How many of these do we have any guys left
21:15
Speaker 1: who just show up to basketball late? Like, does that
21:18
Speaker 1: happen anymore? Like Amari Stoudemire, who didn't show up to
21:20
Speaker 1: basketball late, but he showed up to organize basketball late.
21:23
Speaker 1: You don't hear much about that. He didn't play ball
21:25
Speaker 1: until 10th grade guys anymore.
21:27
Speaker 3: Wasn't that Embiid?
21:28
Speaker 2: Wasn't Embiid the guy who showed up to basketball late?
21:32
Speaker 4: But he showed up early enough to go to Montverde.
21:35
Speaker 1: For high school. You know what I mean? So, I mean,
21:38
Speaker 1: you're right. It's possible.
21:39
Speaker 4: I'm not exactly sure when.
21:42
Speaker 1: But that archetype, because I've long been of the belief,
21:45
Speaker 1: and I still think it holds despite all of this.
21:48
Speaker 1: The number one thing that matters is natural physical endowments.
21:51
Speaker 1: And if you walk in the gym and you show those,
21:54
Speaker 1: they're not going to be like, but he hadn't been
21:56
Speaker 1: coached up.
21:56
Speaker 4: They're like, no, we found something.
21:58
Speaker 1: These kids is too close to the ceiling. We might
22:01
Speaker 1: be able to make something happen here.
22:03
Speaker 3: Right.
22:05
Speaker 2: That's the weird thing, because like you said, Elijah Juan
22:08
Speaker 2: at 6'9, but with the great hand-eye coordination, the great, like,
22:13
Speaker 2: he kind.
22:14
Speaker 3: Of, the touch developed. Good shooter.
22:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The touch developed more as
22:20
Speaker 2: he evolved in Houston. Like, I feel like he was
22:23
Speaker 2: more big man, running the floor, head touch around the rim,
22:27
Speaker 2: but then he started to extend it out in the
22:28
Speaker 2: early 90s, just when his game started to change a
22:31
Speaker 2: little bit more. But, yeah, like, David Robinson, you build
22:35
Speaker 2: him in a lab. You can't build Elijah Juan in
22:38
Speaker 2: a lab, and you damn sure can't build Shaq in
22:40
Speaker 2: a lab.
22:41
Speaker 1: The problem with Robinson, to me, was all those growth
22:45
Speaker 1: spurt guys are just a little bit weird. Right?
22:49
Speaker 4: They like Neo in the Matrix. Like, they just stumbled
22:52
Speaker 4: into what it is.
22:53
Speaker 1: Like, they didn't necessarily come up with that, like, love
22:55
Speaker 1: the taste of blood type situation. Anthony Davis being an
22:59
Speaker 1: example there. Marcus Camby, that was another growth spurt guy.
23:03
Speaker 1: But when you go through and you find the guys
23:05
Speaker 1: where it's just like out of nowhere, this happened like
23:06
Speaker 1: those big dudes there.
23:08
Speaker 4: The thing with Robinson was he was absolutely not a killer.
23:11
Speaker 3: Right.
23:11
Speaker 1: And he can't say he was soft. He was in
23:13
Speaker 1: the Navy. Right. We can't go there. But Olajuwon played
23:17
Speaker 1: with a fury that David Robinson just did not have.
23:20
Speaker 1: That's just not the kind of guy he was. The
23:22
Speaker 1: very nice guy who was really, really good at basketball.
23:25
Speaker 3: Some guys just can't go to that place.
23:28
Speaker 2: It's the top of the top. It's some dudes that
23:31
Speaker 2: cannot act. Maybe the difference between Clyde Drexler and Michael
23:34
Speaker 2: Jordan is that Michael Jordan was always going to go
23:37
Speaker 2: to that place, and Clyde just wasn't built like that.
23:41
Speaker 1: It's the difference between Tim Duncan and David Robinson, because
23:44
Speaker 1: if you were to ask me which of them in
23:46
Speaker 1: some total was a better basketball player, I would tell
23:49
Speaker 1: you David Robinson.
23:51
Speaker 3: Really?
23:51
Speaker 2: Really.
23:51
Speaker 1: I mean, look, so the thing about Tim Duncan is,
23:53
Speaker 1: one might argue Tim Duncan could have been, prior to
23:56
Speaker 1: Victor Wimbanyama, the most impactful team defender of all time.
23:59
Speaker 4: Like, that's his thing. He's just such an incredible defender.
24:03
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan was even, you could say, okay, he didn't
24:06
Speaker 1: take that many shots or whatever, but David Robinson was
24:08
Speaker 1: a guy that could give you 30 in a way
24:09
Speaker 1: that Tim Duncan wasn't the guy to give you 30.
24:12
Speaker 1: David Robinson, I think, was more skilled, and Tim Duncan
24:15
Speaker 1: was incredibly skilled. But, like, some of the things we're
24:17
Speaker 1: talking about with facing the basket and taking dudes to
24:19
Speaker 1: the bucket, he was stronger defensively. All of those things.
24:22
Speaker 1: But for those who were not here for this, speaking
24:24
Speaker 1: of people, Carl Malone is elbowed in our late regular
24:27
Speaker 1: season game in 1998. Carl Malone elbowed David Robinson and
24:33
Speaker 1: gave him a concussion. This is rookie Tim Duncan. Tim
24:36
Speaker 1: Duncan was furious and put 38 on him. And it
24:40
Speaker 1: was an angry 38. And it's what we're talking about.
24:44
Speaker 1: You didn't really see from David Robinson. Right? That's where
24:48
Speaker 1: the difference is, and that difference is the part that
24:50
Speaker 1: matters probably more than the skill part.
24:53
Speaker 2: Well, not just that, but think about all the growth
24:56
Speaker 2: spurt guys that you kind of mentioned. Scottie Pippen, also
24:59
Speaker 2: a growth spurt guy. He was 6'1, and then grew
25:01
Speaker 2: to 6'7, I think, during college, right?
25:04
Speaker 3: Yes.
25:05
Speaker 2: Tim Duncan, you couldn't move him. Like, you could move
25:08
Speaker 2: David Robinson. You could move Anthony Davis. You could certainly
25:12
Speaker 2: move Scottie Pippen. Once... Tim Duncan planted his foot one
25:16
Speaker 2: foot right outside the box, or he basically said, you're
25:19
Speaker 2: not getting any deeper post position.
25:21
Speaker 3: You're not moving. That helps in terms of a lot
25:25
Speaker 3: of other stuff.
25:26
Speaker 2: Like just the fact that if you can't move a guy,
25:29
Speaker 2: you can't start fearing the guy as opposed to David Robinson,
25:31
Speaker 2: where not muscles for free, but you felt like he
25:35
Speaker 2: was big and strong, but maybe didn't like, he wasn't
25:37
Speaker 2: like intimidating in a way that you feared him. Like
25:40
Speaker 2: you had to make sure you knew where he was,
25:42
Speaker 2: but it wasn't like this. Audible fear of what Tim
25:46
Speaker 2: Duncan could actually do if you got Tim Duncan mad.
25:50
Speaker 1: Right, right. Now, coming up next, we're going to talk
25:52
Speaker 1: about what this team did in the Olympics and the
25:55
Speaker 1: big question, is this the real dream team? The Right
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31:27
Speaker 1: All right, we're back with Vinny Goodwill talking about the
31:29
Speaker 1: 1996 USA men's basketball Olympic team. I was sitting here, man,
31:35
Speaker 1: looking at the results and really looking at the teams
31:38
Speaker 1: the team USA played. There's literally nothing to talk about.
31:42
Speaker 1: They ain't even like with 92, you had like that
31:45
Speaker 1: Croatian team.
31:46
Speaker 2: Right?
31:46
Speaker 1: So you had like Drazen Petrovic, Tony Kukoc, Dino Raja,
31:50
Speaker 1: like it was kind of a glimpse into the future, right?
31:54
Speaker 1: And I guess in the gold medal game, they did
31:56
Speaker 1: play the old Yugoslav cats. You know, I think they
32:00
Speaker 1: put a team together, and that's who they played against. Yeah.
32:04
Speaker 1: But bruh, they was just out here smoking. They was
32:07
Speaker 1: smoking countries I didn't even know had basketball teams. They
32:09
Speaker 1: went against Argentina. They got to play Angola again.
32:13
Speaker 2: The.
32:14
Speaker 1: Charles Barkley quotes that we can say in public now
32:17
Speaker 1: about Angola. I don't know anything about Angola, but I
32:20
Speaker 1: know Angola's in trouble.
32:23
Speaker 2: The thing about 96 was that like 92 would just
32:27
Speaker 2: blow you away from the start. Like there was no,
32:29
Speaker 2: you know, the whole Chuck Daly thing. He was never
32:31
Speaker 2: calling the timeout. He never called a timeout. In 96,
32:35
Speaker 2: there were a couple of games where two-point game at halftime.
32:38
Speaker 2: And then they just come out and just blow their
32:40
Speaker 2: doors off to start the next quarter or the next,
32:42
Speaker 2: you know, next half or whatever it was. It was just,
32:45
Speaker 2: it wasn't the same approach as 92. 92 was, you know,
32:50
Speaker 2: we're on a mission to show everybody what this team
32:52
Speaker 2: is and what American basketball is and everything else. By 96,
32:55
Speaker 2: it was kind of like, oh yeah, this is cool,
32:57
Speaker 2: let's go out here and hoop. Because we're in Atlanta
33:00
Speaker 2: and everything else that came with that and Atlanta being
33:02
Speaker 2: a huge backdrop of this whole 1996 experience of everything. Like,
33:07
Speaker 2: it felt a lot closer to home bowl. I don't
33:09
Speaker 2: know if it's just because maybe I was older at
33:12
Speaker 2: the time where I could more so feel it, just
33:15
Speaker 2: the whole Olympic experience, maybe just seeing it in Atlanta
33:18
Speaker 2: and knowing that I had never been in Atlanta before.
33:20
Speaker 3: But I just felt like it was closer.
33:22
Speaker 2: So I felt like there wasn't the mission of bringing
33:25
Speaker 2: basketball to the world. It just felt like, oh, man,
33:28
Speaker 2: the best players in the United States is going to
33:29
Speaker 2: go hoop and just blow everybody's doors off. And that's
33:31
Speaker 2: by and large what they did. Like, Oscar Schmidt gave
33:34
Speaker 2: them 31 games.
33:35
Speaker 1: I want to say.
33:36
Speaker 4: I mean, but somebody had to score. You know what
33:38
Speaker 4: I'm saying?
33:38
Speaker 1: Like, in that game where he gave them 30, they
33:41
Speaker 1: beat them by 23. Like, these are the scores. Argentina
33:44
Speaker 1: in the first game, 96-68. Angola, 87-54. Lithuania, 104-82. China,
33:51
Speaker 1: 133 to 70. They have never figured this thing out.
33:55
Speaker 1: Chide in the Philippines. Love basketball so much. And it
33:58
Speaker 1: ain't never going to get so good. Croatia, 102 to 71. Brazil,
34:02
Speaker 1: 98 to 75. Australia in the semifinals. I don't even
34:08
Speaker 1: know who was on that fucking team.
34:10
Speaker 2: I think Andrew Gage was on that team.
34:12
Speaker 1: I'd say the dude with the Jakey Seton Hall situation.
34:17
Speaker 3: Yes.
34:19
Speaker 1: 101 to 73. And then the Croatia minus, I mean,
34:22
Speaker 1: Yugoslavia minus Croatia. I think it might've been minus Serbia too,
34:25
Speaker 1: but 95 to 69, they were still destroying people. I
34:31
Speaker 1: think the difference probably was more than anything else is
34:34
Speaker 1: the other teams weren't nearly.
34:36
Speaker 4: Just as happy to just be there.
34:39
Speaker 1: Like that Dream Team documentary, the thing that I didn't remember,
34:43
Speaker 1: these cats was in the middle of the games stopping.
34:46
Speaker 4: And being like, yo, can you take a picture right fast?
34:49
Speaker 1: Not at halftime. Not between quarters. Not during timeouts.
34:53
Speaker 4: Like, hey, right fast.
34:54
Speaker 1: Like it's a pickup game. Hey, hold up a second.
34:56
Speaker 1: Hold a shot. Hold ball.
34:57
Speaker 4: Hold ball. All right, let's go.
35:01
Speaker 1: It was it.
35:03
Speaker 2: You know, the most memorable thing to me about 96.
35:05
Speaker 2: I don't see if you remember this. Remember, like in 92,
35:09
Speaker 2: they were doing.
35:11
Speaker 3: The Tournament of the Americas thing.
35:12
Speaker 2: And I was in Portland in 96. They were going
35:16
Speaker 2: to NBA arenas playing college teams. They played Marcus Camby
35:19
Speaker 2: and Tim Duncan in those games. And that's where I
35:22
Speaker 2: first saw Tim Duncan because Marcus Camby was the guy. Yeah.
35:27
Speaker 2: You know, everybody knew Marcus Campbell was the guy because
35:28
Speaker 2: he went to UMass.
35:30
Speaker 1: And he gave Tim Duncan that work that year.
35:34
Speaker 3: Yes.
35:35
Speaker 2: But by the summer, it looked very clear to me. Oh,
35:41
Speaker 2: this Wake Forest dude, he's something because he was giving
35:45
Speaker 2: these pros fits. And they were going on a tour
35:48
Speaker 2: like that. I remember, Bo, they went to Indiana. Now,
35:51
Speaker 2: this is another backdrop that I'm not sure people remember.
35:54
Speaker 2: 96 was the biggest NBA free agency in history at
35:59
Speaker 2: the time.
35:59
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan was a free agent. Gary Payton was a
36:02
Speaker 3: free agent. Shaquille O'Neal.
36:05
Speaker 2: Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, the biggest free agent at the time
36:08
Speaker 2: that was gettable. Like, all those dudes were free agents,
36:11
Speaker 2: and none of the guys had signed at that point. Like,
36:13
Speaker 2: Shaq wound up signing during the Olympics, but during the tour,
36:17
Speaker 2: it was almost like, and Reggie Miller, like, these teams
36:20
Speaker 2: were being recruited by the home crowds, like they did
36:23
Speaker 2: a game in Indiana, where Reggie Miller... was like the
36:26
Speaker 2: king in Indy and he was a free agent and
36:28
Speaker 2: people thought he was actually going to go and play
36:30
Speaker 2: for the New York Knicks so they were showing all
36:32
Speaker 2: this appreciation while playing against the college teams while watching
36:37
Speaker 2: them prep for the Olympics like it was all this
36:39
Speaker 2: other richness in the air before we even get to
36:42
Speaker 2: Atlanta and everything like that's what I remember remembered most
36:46
Speaker 2: and then also seeing Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway on
36:49
Speaker 2: the same team Like that to me was the most
36:52
Speaker 2: freaky thing ever. Like seeing these two dudes who are
36:55
Speaker 2: the future, like those dudes are next, like they're now
36:59
Speaker 2: and they're on the same squad. And like, to me,
37:02
Speaker 2: that was just like, I'm almost like speechless about it.
37:05
Speaker 2: Like how excited I was to see that at the time.
37:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
37:07
Speaker 1: And especially now, cause Penny Hardaway, you don't, you don't
37:10
Speaker 1: have this happen that much anymore. I guess Gilbert Arenas
37:12
Speaker 1: is a similar case, but not exactly the same, but
37:15
Speaker 1: these comments, right? Like when we're talking about Penny Hardaway,
37:19
Speaker 1: We're really talking about three years. It's like 93 through
37:25
Speaker 1: 96 is really what we're talking about. But it was
37:28
Speaker 1: an indelible one, right? He was your favorite player. He
37:32
Speaker 1: is a no-brainer choice to be on this team, right?
37:36
Speaker 1: Because he was so big. He had this creative game.
37:40
Speaker 1: He was like a true combo guard. I would not
37:43
Speaker 1: truly classify him as a point guard, but he was
37:46
Speaker 1: too much of a point guard for them to keep
37:47
Speaker 1: Scott Skiles. You know what I mean? Like it was
37:49
Speaker 1: just a, it was, it was a comment on that squad.
37:52
Speaker 1: So you had these old school, these old heads, the team,
37:55
Speaker 1: the young guys, they have a great Hill, less of
37:58
Speaker 1: a comment because we had a little bit of a
38:00
Speaker 1: longer time period, but still very similar, man. Where it's
38:02
Speaker 1: just like, Hey man, that felt like that happened so fast.
38:05
Speaker 1: Then that going along with a key melange one, like
38:08
Speaker 1: you said, Shaq dream and Robinson. And the thing is
38:14
Speaker 1: you could truly play any two of them together.
38:17
Speaker 3: Dude, think about this.
38:19
Speaker 2: I want to say in 96, Michael won MVP, of course.
38:24
Speaker 2: I want to say David Robinson might have been second.
38:28
Speaker 2: And maybe Penny was third or fourth in MVP voting
38:33
Speaker 2: in 96. And then in 97, Karl Malone won fraudulently.
38:37
Speaker 2: Michael was second and then Grant Hill was third. But
38:40
Speaker 2: you could legit make the argument that the three best
38:43
Speaker 2: players in basketball at that time was Michael Jordan clearly
38:48
Speaker 2: without Pierre, and then Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway. Like,
38:52
Speaker 2: the fact that, like you said, Penny Hardaway was an
38:54
Speaker 2: evolution of Magic Johnson at the time.
38:57
Speaker 3: It was like Magic Johnson with more athleticism.
38:59
Speaker 1: More hops. But not as big. That's the one thing.
39:02
Speaker 3: Not as big. Not as big.
39:04
Speaker 2: He was 6'7, not 6'9, and he couldn't hold weight. Like,
39:07
Speaker 2: Magic was 225 and could hold all of it.
39:10
Speaker 3: Penny was more not super skinny.
39:13
Speaker 2: Like as he was when he first came into the league,
39:15
Speaker 2: he just started to put on weight and he was
39:16
Speaker 2: trying to figure out the balance between the weight and
39:18
Speaker 2: the athleticism. And he never really did because his knees
39:21
Speaker 2: started to go as soon as he put on his
39:23
Speaker 2: grown man weight, which is God, that's the worst thing ever.
39:26
Speaker 2: Like you got to see to me, you got to
39:28
Speaker 2: see the best of Grant Hill. It was just a
39:30
Speaker 2: matter of how long he was going to sustain that
39:33
Speaker 2: into the 2000s. We never got to see like the
39:37
Speaker 2: fully actualized Penny Hardaway that could control the game, that
39:41
Speaker 2: could score 40 like he did in that one series
39:43
Speaker 2: against the Miami Heat when he shifted from point guard
39:46
Speaker 2: to shooting guard. He scored 40 points in two straight
39:48
Speaker 2: games and his team didn't score 80. Like that's how
39:51
Speaker 2: great he was and how necessary he was in those series.
39:55
Speaker 2: But that's, to me, that's the biggest what if. Like
39:57
Speaker 2: people talk about, you know, the Derrick Roses and maybe
40:00
Speaker 2: Blake Griffins or Brandon Royce or Bill Walton or Greg Oden.
40:04
Speaker 2: To me, the number one what if with that dude
40:07
Speaker 2: at that time was Penny Hardaway.
40:09
Speaker 3: It is not even close.
40:10
Speaker 1: And speaking of Penny Hardaway, you mentioned it a little earlier.
40:13
Speaker 1: Can you imagine in our current day and age, our
40:16
Speaker 1: current media cycles, what it would have been when Shaq
40:19
Speaker 1: signed to go to the Lakers during the Olympics and
40:22
Speaker 1: Penny found out the same time as the rest of us?
40:27
Speaker 2: Dude, he found... I think in one of those documentaries,
40:31
Speaker 2: someone asked Shaq a question. They had on the headphones
40:33
Speaker 2: to try to get it translated. I think it was
40:36
Speaker 2: someone foreign asking the question. And it said something about, Shaq,
40:39
Speaker 2: you're signing with the Lakers. And they showed Penny's face.
40:41
Speaker 3: He was like.
40:43
Speaker 1: What? Hey, keep it down. Keep it down. Keep it down.
40:49
Speaker 4: Say that again, homeboy.
40:52
Speaker 3: And then here's the other thing. And this also came
40:54
Speaker 3: to mind.
40:55
Speaker 2: At the beginning of the 95-96 season, Shaq had a
40:58
Speaker 2: broken wrist or a broken thumb. So he missed like
41:01
Speaker 2: the first 20 games of the season. You know who
41:04
Speaker 2: led the league in scoring?
41:06
Speaker 1: Penny! Yep.
41:07
Speaker 2: That dude. Like, this is what we were, this is
41:10
Speaker 2: what we missed because his knees, and he had, you know,
41:14
Speaker 2: that microfracture surgery before we found out. Hey, that ain't
41:16
Speaker 2: exactly the fix that you think it is.
41:18
Speaker 1: Yo, all those guys. Him, Kenya Martin, Amari Stoudemire with
41:21
Speaker 1: terrible timing.
41:23
Speaker 2: The worst, the absolute, like Amari's the only dude to
41:26
Speaker 2: come back from the micro fracture and be himself. But
41:29
Speaker 2: even then, that was like a ticking time bomb. And
41:32
Speaker 2: that blew up basically by the time he got to
41:33
Speaker 2: the Knicks, like three or four years later. But man, like,
41:36
Speaker 2: like you said, in the media climate, figuring out the
41:39
Speaker 2: Woj bomb happening right in front of you. Hey, Shaq,
41:43
Speaker 2: you're the biggest free agent in NBA history. And your
41:46
Speaker 2: team just allowed you to go to the Lakers. Because
41:50
Speaker 2: the Orlando Sentinel put out a poll and said, can
41:52
Speaker 2: we pay Shaq $ 100 million?
41:54
Speaker 3: Yes or no? And people in Orlando said, nah, we straight.
41:58
Speaker 1: Look, it's just a newspaper poll, but as if it's
42:01
Speaker 1: your own money. That tell you everything you need to
42:04
Speaker 1: know about fans. It ain't even your dough. That man
42:08
Speaker 1: gonna sell enough Amway to make this happen, I promise you.
42:13
Speaker 3: Oh, that was incredible. Like, it's crazy, Bo. Do you
42:17
Speaker 3: think that people understand.
42:20
Speaker 2: what Shaq was, or has Shaq like Barkley become such
42:23
Speaker 2: a caricature of himself in this inside the NBA world,
42:27
Speaker 2: in this social media world, that we haven't properly contextualized
42:32
Speaker 2: that the best of Shaq from 96 to like 0-2?
42:38
Speaker 3: Might be the best player we've ever seen.
42:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a little easier for people to
42:44
Speaker 1: get because the proxies are there for Shaq in a
42:47
Speaker 1: way they're not there for Barkley, four championships, three finals, MVPs.
42:52
Speaker 1: So I think that there's a little bit of... You
42:55
Speaker 1: can't grasp the physical singularity of Charles in the way
42:58
Speaker 1: you can easily grasp the physical singularity of Shaq. What
43:03
Speaker 1: I don't think people realize is that he used to
43:06
Speaker 1: be much slimmer. And when he was, it was, he's
43:10
Speaker 1: the most physically perfect basketball player that anybody put together.
43:13
Speaker 1: Like young Shaq, like seven foot 295 Shaq. No problems.
43:22
Speaker 1: Now you can do it.
43:24
Speaker 3: I mean, look, yeah, foul him. That's about it. Foul
43:27
Speaker 3: him and put him on the line and call it
43:28
Speaker 3: a day.
43:29
Speaker 2: But everything to me, it was almost like all the
43:33
Speaker 2: things that we think about from 96 on kind of
43:35
Speaker 2: began in 96. Like Karl Malone hit his MVP season
43:39
Speaker 2: after that. Grant Hill had the best season of his
43:41
Speaker 2: career going into year three of that.
43:43
Speaker 3: We got the best of the rest of Penny Hardaway.
43:45
Speaker 2: And then Shaq begins this tour of domination after that,
43:50
Speaker 2: where he wasn't better than Michael Jordan, like for the
43:52
Speaker 2: last few years of Mike. But the most dominant player
43:56
Speaker 2: we've ever seen, that took place during that six-year stretch,
43:59
Speaker 2: like where he was in shape, took it seriously, both
44:02
Speaker 2: ends of the floor. All you could do was follow
44:05
Speaker 2: him and maybe follow him 20 times and hope to
44:07
Speaker 2: God that he didn't get on the road making free throws.
44:10
Speaker 1: It was unfair. Now, this leads us to the fun question.
44:14
Speaker 1: When you really stop and think about it, could this
44:20
Speaker 1: team be better than the 92 team?
44:27
Speaker 3: Is that a rhetorical question?
44:28
Speaker 1: No, no, no. That's a serious question. So here's what
44:32
Speaker 1: I throw out there. For example, the 92 team had
44:35
Speaker 1: Larry Bird, but we're not talking about an all-NBA caliber
44:38
Speaker 1: player in the version of Larry Bird that they had there.
44:41
Speaker 3: Right.
44:42
Speaker 1: Magic, on one hand, Magic hadn't played for the whole year.
44:45
Speaker 1: On the other hand, Magic was still that dude that
44:48
Speaker 1: year before.
44:49
Speaker 3: Right.
44:50
Speaker 1: But it's still. Right.
44:51
Speaker 2: He's MVP runner up in 91.
44:52
Speaker 3: Right.
44:53
Speaker 1: It's still a 13, 33 year old Magic that we're
44:58
Speaker 1: talking about here. Right. He was still really good, but
45:00
Speaker 1: it's not like the one thing about Magic when we
45:02
Speaker 1: talk about athleticism. My brother always makes this point. Magic
45:06
Speaker 1: had that knee injury. his second year. And that was
45:09
Speaker 1: at a time where the medicine wasn't the same as
45:12
Speaker 1: it was like, you look at the clips of magic
45:14
Speaker 1: and college and before that, Oh, there's athleticism there. But anyway,
45:17
Speaker 1: this is, this is a not very athletic version of him.
45:20
Speaker 1: Now it is a better version of Charles Barkley than
45:23
Speaker 1: the one I would say that this team had. That
45:25
Speaker 1: team had Michael Jordan. I would say this team probably
45:29
Speaker 1: had a better version of Scotty Pippen, a better version
45:33
Speaker 1: of Carl Malone, about the.
45:34
Speaker 4: Same version of John Stockton. That's just what it was.
45:37
Speaker 1: A better version of David Robinson. Plus, we're adding Gary Payton,
45:43
Speaker 1: Akeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Grant Hill, and Petty Hardaway, right?
45:48
Speaker 4: Now, on the other side, like we said, a superior
45:51
Speaker 4: version of Charles Barkley.
45:54
Speaker 1: I think the other thing with this team, too, is
45:56
Speaker 1: they weren't worried about how many white dudes were on
45:58
Speaker 1: the team. Right. That's why this team does not have
46:00
Speaker 1: a Christian Laitner, for example. No, this team does not
46:03
Speaker 1: have a Chris Mullen. Mullen is a Mullen's one that
46:05
Speaker 1: if you were there, it made perfect sense for Mullen
46:08
Speaker 1: to be on the team in a world that.
46:09
Speaker 4: Dominique Wilkins did not exist.
46:11
Speaker 1: Right. But, you know, you could see it. But I
46:15
Speaker 1: don't think Chris Mullen makes this team. Maybe he take
46:17
Speaker 1: Mitch Richmond spot.
46:20
Speaker 2: I mean, I understand the case for Mullen being on
46:23
Speaker 2: 92 because of birds back. And if you're building a team,
46:27
Speaker 2: and I bark back against, man, you got to have
46:31
Speaker 2: all this on a team.
46:32
Speaker 3: You're beating everybody by 60.
46:34
Speaker 2: Like, the whole thing about Isaiah can't be on the
46:36
Speaker 2: Dream Team because you need shooting. I heard Jackie McMullin
46:39
Speaker 2: or somebody that I really respect say something like that.
46:42
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, you worried about zone busters on a
46:44
Speaker 2: 92 Dream Team?
46:45
Speaker 3: All right, whatever.
46:46
Speaker 2: You are carrying somebody's water, right? And we can just
46:49
Speaker 2: leave it at that. But if you're going to say, hey...
46:52
Speaker 2: if we got Bird on this team and we worried
46:54
Speaker 2: about Bird's backup leaving because that's where we were in
46:57
Speaker 2: the career of Larry Bird, then you go get Bird light.
47:00
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? You go get left Bird.
47:02
Speaker 1: How about this? Have any two guys been more similar
47:06
Speaker 1: yet less similar than Larry Bird and Chris Mullin?
47:12
Speaker 3: White.
47:13
Speaker 1: Crew cut. Yeah, right. Crew cut.
47:16
Speaker 4: And then they start talking.
47:19
Speaker 2: Look, Chris Mullin, It's from, I forgot what borough he's from.
47:23
Speaker 1: He's from Queens, I want to say. He's from Queens
47:25
Speaker 1: or Brooklyn. I can't remember which.
47:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:29
Speaker 2: Look, yeah, I don't spend too much time in Queens.
47:31
Speaker 2: But the point is, that man grew up, like, in
47:35
Speaker 2: New York.
47:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Chris Mullin had the
47:37
Speaker 1: most New York accent. He was no white dude who
47:41
Speaker 1: sounded like a black dude ever got more respect than
47:45
Speaker 1: Chris Mullin. He's from Brooklyn.
47:47
Speaker 2: Yes, and to your point, Here's what I will say
47:49
Speaker 2: about Magic Johnson. And you're saying that Magic maybe wasn't
47:53
Speaker 2: what he was. If Magic three years later comes back
47:56
Speaker 2: to the NBA at age 35 or 36, I think,
48:00
Speaker 2: and gives you 16, 7, and 6 for a dog
48:04
Speaker 2: Lakers team, plus on 255 pounds, I think 92 Magic,
48:10
Speaker 2: if we rewind it three years, I think 92 Magic
48:13
Speaker 2: is still a really, really dominant player.
48:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
48:17
Speaker 4: He'd still make that team.
48:19
Speaker 1: Like, he did not make that team as a Lifetime
48:22
Speaker 1: Achievement Award. He made that team because he was still
48:25
Speaker 1: one of the 12 best players in the world. And
48:27
Speaker 1: still the best player in his position, even a year after.
48:30
Speaker 1: By the way, right fast with the Chris Mullen wiki page,
48:32
Speaker 1: the early life goes like this. This is so all
48:35
Speaker 1: over the place. Mullen was born in Brooklyn. As a
48:38
Speaker 1: young player in New York, he studied the games and
48:40
Speaker 1: Nick stars Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe while admiring Larry
48:43
Speaker 1: Bird and wearing.
48:45
Speaker 4: Number 17 in honor of John Havlicek.
48:48
Speaker 1: As a youth, he regularly traveled to the Bronx and
48:50
Speaker 1: Harlem and predominantly black neighborhoods to play against the best
48:54
Speaker 1: players in New York City. Like it is very, like
48:59
Speaker 1: all the racial coding in the Chris Mullen thing was
49:02
Speaker 1: all over the place, but no white man has ever
49:05
Speaker 1: been treated quite like black in the way that we
49:07
Speaker 1: allow Chris Mullen. No, no, no.
49:10
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we don't hold Chris Mullen in the
49:14
Speaker 2: same reverence that we hold the Birdman.
49:16
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
49:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, that would be crazy.
49:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, but... you got to think, the fact that Chris
49:21
Speaker 2: Mullen was able to bounce back from the alcohol and
49:25
Speaker 2: everything else that he was going through to make it
49:27
Speaker 2: to the Olympic team in 92 and still be out
49:30
Speaker 2: there giving you 25, I'm with you.
49:32
Speaker 3: So to your point, could 96 beat 92? I will
49:35
Speaker 3: say this.
49:39
Speaker 2: Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill was on that 92 select
49:42
Speaker 2: team that gave the 92 Olympic team the blues.
49:46
Speaker 4: That is true.
49:47
Speaker 3: In that practice game. That is true. It's different, right?
49:53
Speaker 2: And Michael Jordan, the 92 version of Michael Jordan, might
49:56
Speaker 2: be the best version of Michael Jordan ever, right? Like,
50:01
Speaker 2: go look at his finals against Portland, which we don't
50:04
Speaker 2: really talk about aside from game one. He was like 35...
50:07
Speaker 2: seven and six on 52-42 splits. Like, that was the
50:11
Speaker 2: best of Michael Jordan that was to come. So maybe
50:15
Speaker 2: he's the equalizer, so to speak.
50:18
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this. Do you think the
50:21
Speaker 1: 1992 version of Patrick Ewing could make this team? The
50:25
Speaker 1: 96 team? Because I don't think so. Ooh, no.
50:28
Speaker 3: No, I don't think he makes it. That's crazy.
50:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
50:31
Speaker 1: And 92, Patrick Ewing is a really, really, really good player.
50:34
Speaker 1: I don't think that he could wind up.
50:39
Speaker 1: Okay, I do think this. I'm going to say, does
50:41
Speaker 1: the 92 version of Clyde Drexler make this team? I do.
50:44
Speaker 1: Mitch Richmond is going home. The 92 version of Clyde
50:48
Speaker 1: Drexler is sending Mitch Richmond home, is sending Reggie Miller home. Honestly,
50:55
Speaker 1: the 92 version of Clyde Drexler, Grant Hill, we got
50:59
Speaker 1: to have a talk.
51:01
Speaker 3: No, no, we don't.
51:02
Speaker 1: No, we don't.
51:04
Speaker 3: No, we don't.
51:04
Speaker 1: Grant Hill, you're saying that Grant Hill, after two years,
51:08
Speaker 1: was better than peak Clyde Drexler?
51:11
Speaker 2: I'm saying Grant Hill after two years was better than
51:13
Speaker 2: Scottie Pippen. Scottie's going home.
51:21
Speaker 4: Why did I not see that coming?
51:24
Speaker 1: You were so ready.
51:26
Speaker 4: The timing on that was so impeccable.
51:31
Speaker 1: Scottie's out of here.
51:34
Speaker 3: I knew you didn't see it. I'm like, oh, I
51:36
Speaker 3: can't wait to land this plane.
51:38
Speaker 1: No, because I was like, wait a minute. Are you sure?
51:40
Speaker 1: I didn't even recall. That's Clyde Drexler, MVP runner-up. You're like, nah, Scotty. Sorry.
51:47
Speaker 3: Scotty's out of here in 96.
51:49
Speaker 1: Go home.
51:52
Speaker 3: I'm with you.
51:53
Speaker 2: Clyde's sending some people home.
51:55
Speaker 3: He's sending Pip home. You can leave the shoes, Pip.
51:57
Speaker 2: Those Air Max up tempos was legit, especially those Olympic joints.
52:01
Speaker 2: But Scotty's going to the crib because you got to remember,
52:03
Speaker 2: 97 was the last great Scottie Pippen year. Correct, correct.
52:10
Speaker 2: Scottie was cooked as a superstar player post-back injury, foot injury.
52:15
Speaker 2: Clyde in 92, like you said, you can say what
52:18
Speaker 2: you want about him getting torched by Mike, but everybody
52:20
Speaker 2: would have got that work at that point.
52:23
Speaker 3: So, yeah, there's the discussion. Clyde in 92 or Pippen
52:27
Speaker 3: in 96. Not Grant Hill or Penny, please.
52:31
Speaker 1: Oh, man.
52:34
Speaker 4: You're totally correct. I am with you now that I
52:39
Speaker 4: think about it.
52:40
Speaker 1: This is also like 96 was the last great dream year. Yes.
52:45
Speaker 1: 97 is a very good dream. 97 is a very
52:48
Speaker 1: good Barkley. 97 is a pretty good Clyde. But this
52:51
Speaker 1: was the end of just the 92 through 96 dream. Freak.
52:55
Speaker 1: Nothing you could do.
53:04
Speaker 2: Dude, remember, was it 91 that Cartwright got him in
53:08
Speaker 2: the eye?
53:08
Speaker 1: Yep.
53:10
Speaker 2: Once again, at what point are we going to be
53:12
Speaker 2: talking about the graveyard of body parts that Bill Cartwright
53:15
Speaker 2: done claimed? I know that we don't put him in
53:19
Speaker 2: the same boat as the Lambeers of the world, but
53:22
Speaker 2: he got just as many body parts, if not more.
53:24
Speaker 3: Like, y'all, when we going to have this conversation?
53:27
Speaker 1: Hey, man, I was saying, I can tell you, y'all
53:29
Speaker 1: need to be glad. If I was running the Spurs,
53:32
Speaker 1: I'd send Victor to goddamn Bill Cartwright, big man camp.
53:35
Speaker 1: Y'all be terrified to do anything with him.
53:39
Speaker 2: But no, it's funny you said that because like you said,
53:43
Speaker 2: the best of the rest of Elijah Wong, like the
53:45
Speaker 2: drop-off was starting to happen with him. Like Karl Malone
53:49
Speaker 2: was never going to be any better. Like he won
53:51
Speaker 2: MVP in 97, but you could make the argument that
53:54
Speaker 2: he had better years. Like he was in his early
53:57
Speaker 2: thirties at that point. But that was during the time
53:59
Speaker 2: where if you're in your early thirties, this is when the.
54:03
Speaker 3: Drop-off starts to happen. If not like retirement, like we've.
54:07
Speaker 2: Changed the paradigm on what early 30s, mid 30s basketball
54:11
Speaker 2: looks like. So when people talk about Charles Barkley, you
54:14
Speaker 2: went ring chasing in 96 to go, you know, to
54:16
Speaker 2: go from.
54:16
Speaker 3: Phoenix to Houston.
54:17
Speaker 2: That's what dudes did back then. Like, like that, that
54:20
Speaker 2: was what life was like back then. Like Charles Barkley
54:23
Speaker 2: wasn't going to carry a team. It's just now that
54:25
Speaker 2: because LeBron has changed it, Kevin Durant has changed it.
54:28
Speaker 3: Steph has changed it.
54:29
Speaker 2: We want to reevaluate what life was like back then.
54:32
Speaker 3: No, no, no. That was the norm.
54:34
Speaker 1: No, you go find, I mean, it makes sense. You
54:36
Speaker 1: go find a good team and you play for them.
54:40
Speaker 1: It's hard to figure out. Kevin Durant, it was just like, damn.
54:45
Speaker 1: It's just not fair, right? He didn't do anything wrong.
54:48
Speaker 1: It was weird, right?
54:49
Speaker 4: I know why it hit people funny.
54:51
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, you go find a good team to
54:53
Speaker 1: play for, and then you go play for the good team.
54:56
Speaker 4: That's what everybody does, right? This is just what it is.
55:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's shifted. The whole thing, Charles Barkley spent nine
55:07
Speaker 3: years in Philly.
55:09
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Dudes ain't giving no franchise nine years no more.
55:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gave them eight. Well, no, you'll give them
55:15
Speaker 1: eight because you give, well, it used to be you
55:16
Speaker 1: give them eight because you give them two deals. But
55:18
Speaker 1: now that nobody goes to free agency.
55:20
Speaker 3: You give them seven.
55:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
55:22
Speaker 3: And you get traded.
55:23
Speaker 1: If you give them seven, right?
55:24
Speaker 3: If you give them seven.
55:26
Speaker 4: If you give them seven. But I tell you this,
55:28
Speaker 4: you ain't get no answer.
55:33
Speaker 2: That's why, like, we haven't, hopefully we have fully contextualized
55:39
Speaker 2: like how freaky these dudes are.
55:42
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
55:43
Speaker 2: Like hopeful, like Charles Barkley being the leading scorer in
55:47
Speaker 2: 96 after.
55:48
Speaker 3: Being the leading scorer in 92.
55:50
Speaker 2: And you can see the downshift from 92 to 96,
55:54
Speaker 2: but it still looks like a dream team. In 2000,
55:57
Speaker 2: it don't look like a dream team. In 2004, damn
55:59
Speaker 2: sure don't look like a dream team. Like that was
56:01
Speaker 2: the last of the we are scared of, the world
56:05
Speaker 2: is scared of the United States. Like, you could put
56:07
Speaker 2: the best of the world against the United States and
56:09
Speaker 2: the United States would kill everybody. Like, that's the last
56:12
Speaker 2: time you could actually say that. Like, we didn't know
56:14
Speaker 2: the world was catching up in 96. They were starting to.
56:19
Speaker 2: In 2000, it was like, man, the world done caught up. Like,
56:23
Speaker 2: they just happened to win, but the world had caught
56:26
Speaker 2: up by 2000.
56:26
Speaker 4: I mean, they won the final by like two points.
56:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
56:30
Speaker 3: No, no, no. Like, like, We just didn't know any better.
56:33
Speaker 1: Look, man, I'm going with the 92 team, and it's
56:36
Speaker 1: for the reason that made the youngsters very upset. Mm-hmm.
56:40
Speaker 3: Him.
56:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got Mike.
56:43
Speaker 3: Him.
56:43
Speaker 1: Like, if this is at all close.
56:47
Speaker 2: Him.
56:48
Speaker 1: They got Mike.
56:49
Speaker 3: Him. That's all.
56:50
Speaker 1: That's it.
56:51
Speaker 3: That black cat.
56:52
Speaker 1: That's it.
56:52
Speaker 3: That's it. They got him.
56:53
Speaker 1: They got Mike. Mike and Magic and Peak Chuck. Yeah, man.
57:03
Speaker 1: I can't bet. Okay, pick against that.
57:07
Speaker 3: Like, think about this.
57:09
Speaker 2: Peak Chuck was going to give you 28-14-5.
57:11
Speaker 3: Yeah. And wasn't even in, like, the greatest of shapes.
57:16
Speaker 1: It wasn't even that ball dominant. No.
57:20
Speaker 2: Because he could get to the line, which meant he
57:23
Speaker 2: could slow the game down.
57:25
Speaker 3: Right.
57:25
Speaker 2: Like if you're going on a 9-0 run, get the
57:28
Speaker 2: ball to Chuck, get in the post. Either you get
57:30
Speaker 2: in the bucket or you're getting fouled and you're getting
57:31
Speaker 2: a chance to like you're getting a chance to recalibrate yourself.
57:35
Speaker 2: Like that is something that's so underrated about like stopping
57:38
Speaker 2: a 9-2 run or stopping a 10-2 run. Get a
57:41
Speaker 2: ball to Charles for a couple of possessions. Settle things down.
57:44
Speaker 2: Lose the variance. and then everybody gets their feet under him. Like,
57:48
Speaker 2: that's how great Chuck was, man.
57:50
Speaker 3: It was just.
57:51
Speaker 2: And then we talk about Chuck like, man, you got
57:52
Speaker 2: an MVP, you went to the finals once, but you
57:54
Speaker 2: left so much on the table. This motherfucker was 6'5.
57:58
Speaker 1: Sorry, Mr.
57:59
Speaker 2: Paul.
57:59
Speaker 3: Nah.
57:59
Speaker 2: He was 6'5.
58:01
Speaker 1: Nah, he the original KG. Should have got out of
58:03
Speaker 1: there sooner. While you out there with Mike... No, Michael...
58:08
Speaker 1: Mike Jemiski? Yeah, I was definitely thinking I was going
58:12
Speaker 1: to get to Mike Jemiski.
58:13
Speaker 4: Let me tell you.
58:16
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that Mike Javiski story later. But yeah, nah. 92.
58:20
Speaker 4: Sorry, 96. You have a grievance, but you don't. You do,
58:24
Speaker 4: but you don't.
58:25
Speaker 1: Vitty Goodwill, check him out. Covering the NBA for ESPN.
58:28
Speaker 1: My brother, I appreciate you.
58:29
Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
58:30
Speaker 1: All right, now, ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for
58:32
Speaker 1: joining us here on The Right Time. We do this
58:34
Speaker 1: three days a week, sometimes less, sometimes more during the summer.
58:37
Speaker 1: Ryan Brumley handled everything behind the scenes.
58:39
Speaker 4: Thank you, sir.
58:39
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58:52
Speaker 4: Take it easy.