Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / The Cliff House Curse: Ghosts, Shipwrecks, & Fiery History in San Francisco

Transcript

The Cliff House Curse: Ghosts, Shipwrecks, & Fiery History in San Francisco · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Another cliffhouse burnt down.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I know, how do you align a castle to the ground.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Things weren't fireproof, yeah, I know, a lot of things
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: burned back then.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and everything was flamable. Everything was like on
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: the verge of explosion constantly.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: It seems like kind of ironic though, because it is
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: like right by the water.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you don't picture that being its demise?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Hi, Caitlin, Hi, Cassie. Hi, creepy people. Hello, Hey,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: are you new to our creepy corner of the world?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Me?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I was talking to the general public. Okay, well, if
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: you are, this is PNW Hanson Homicides. We very chat
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: about true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky and
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: creepy in the Pacific Northwest. I was going to say,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: where we're soups preatheh. I almost added the and history
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: at the end of that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I knew that was going to happen. One of us
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: was going to like do something weird there. Yeah, speaking
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: of weird, are you weird? Yeah? No, I was trying
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to segue into my thing that you insist on. I
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: you know that I say every time, Okay, I'll be quietly.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I couldn't I couldn't get there. I couldn't. I couldn't
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: make it happen. CA I'll let you get there. It
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: was fetch and it wasn't there. It's pan w If
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: you're nasty, well.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: You know what else is kind of nasty? We do
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: a terror reading, I think all of every episode for
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a little deeper insight into our topic. And it's not
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: really nasty, but could be, could be. I mean I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: feel like, kind of just like the word weird, we're nasty.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: It was like kind of a good thing, you know, Yeah,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: it can be, So let's be nasty. Okay, Hey, do
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: you guys remember something else nasty that we just talked about.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: It was a little a little man named Jake. Jake
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Jake the alligator man. You remember him. He was nasty.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So do you remember in that episode where I kind
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: of like hinted about the cliff House in San Francisco,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: which is where Jake is supposedly from. Yeah, and I said,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I might like talk about it in the future.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Well, today it's the future. We have arrived to the future.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: We are in the future, back to the future. So
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: that's what we're talking about today. We're going to San Francisco.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: We're going to the cliff house.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: And actually there have been several different cliff houses in
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the same location. Oh, and this is the start of
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: where I was like looking this up and I was like, oh,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of tea here. We got to save
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: this for its own episode.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: And there's actually some debate on how many cliffhouses there were. Oh,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: they say like three to six. I think the general
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: consensus is three, but we'll talk about it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: But I do want to read you a.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Qouch from outside lands dot org and it says, quote,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: it all comes down to how one defines structure and
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: at what point does it change so completely that it
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: becomes a totally different building.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I feel like what that reminds me of is it
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: depends on what the definition.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Of is is? Yeah, what is the definition of is?
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I mean just semantical nonsense. Really, I feel I don't
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: know what is is ing? Is ing? Is? Is I is?
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: My brain hurts. Yeah, Well, let's get back to the episode.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, right, so we're gonna get started. We're
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: going to talk about all the different buildings that have
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: been in this location. Some people argue that a roadhouse
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: from eighteen fifty eight in a different location with a
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: different name is the very first cliff house. And yeah,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: it's not in the same location, completely different name, But
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I think some people think that it counts because it
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: was called a seal Rock House and the cliff House
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: overlooks seal Rocks, which is about a quarter mile away
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: from where the seal Rock House was.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just feel like at a certain point, are like,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: where's your tinfoil hat? Yeah, a little bit. I don't know.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I don't I really don't know. I don't think this
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: place is like even on a cliff. I'm really not sure. Okay,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: So I think the census is that it doesn't count.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: But one of the.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Actual cliffhouses did have a large kneon sign that declared
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: since eighteen fifty eight, So that's confusing.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Right, Okay, Okay.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: But it was not in that location. So hmm, there's
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: a great debate. Yeah, I would argue there's maybe there
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: is debate. I don't know how great it is.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: A great debate of what is it? Wait?
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Wait, the great debate of eighteen fifty eight. So the
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: real original Cliffhouse was built in eighteen sixty three in
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: a new development in San Francisco called Land's End, which
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: like sounds super magical. Yeah, it was built as a
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: resort for the wealthy, of course, and yes it's on
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: an actual cliff.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: It wasn't very big or easy to get to, so
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: it was considered very exclusive. Therefore, it was very popular,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: especially with the elite families of the era, like of course,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: like the Hearsts, the Stanford's, and the Crockers. Wow, which
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: all sound familiar. Yeah, but I did not look them up,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: so I don't exactly know why they sound familiar.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Well, we're talking about the Hearst California familiar to me. Yeah,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Stansford's like the restaurant, Crocker, or like the college. Oh right,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like, like the restaurant Stanford. I don't even know
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: if Stanford's the restaurant is in California.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know when I originally was looking like I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: thought about the college.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. I just said that I'm hungry.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I know me too, And then Crocker I was like, yeah,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Betty Crocker obviously, so yeah, but I didn't go into
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: like the history of the families. But I have a
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: picture for you, Okay, so this is the first cliff
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Hounds and it is right on a cliff.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Oh that's really beautiful. Well you just wait, this isn't
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: even this isn't even the half of it. So five
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: years later they expanded to four times its original size,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: leaving just a small portion of the building of the
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: original building exposed. So this is kind of where some
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: of that debate comes in, as like how much of
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: the original is actually left? Does it count as the origin?
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I think it's Greek mythology. There's like
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: the ship that has been rebuilt time and I won't
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: be able to remember the name of it for the
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: life of me, right, but it like was repaired, repaired, repaired,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: and eventually it's like all.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Of the original parts are gone exactly. It's kind of
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: just a replica at that point.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: M hm.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: So I will send you another picture of the expanded version.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I love a ual. I know there's a
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: lot there.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: There's eighteen photos in this so yeah, there you can
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: see like a better view of it right on the cliff.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so that it's hard to tell just because
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: of how the house is positioned in each of these photos.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: It's very different perspective, so it's hard to tell, but
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: the second one does look quite a bit larger.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the yeah, this one, I I didn't like
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: search a ton for like original photos, but obviously back
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: then there's not going to be like a ton of photos.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: But as we get going, there's more and more photos,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: different views of of the different houses that were there.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: But I love that one where you can see like
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the seal rocks.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is beautiful. I said it already, but you
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: just fucking wait, dude, you just wait. I'm so excited. Okay.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: In the eighteen seventies, the Cliff House started offering gambling
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and alcohol scandal, I know, and it became so shabby
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and unrespectable. That's not what I said. That was a
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: direct quote from the article. Well, of course you.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Would never make you would never levy such an accusation.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think gambling and alcohol or shabby and unrespectable.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: But apparently it drew in just a different crowd riff raff. Yeah,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: it was not like the family, the elite family crowd anymore.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think gambling, yeah, maybe more so than And
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: maybe that's just my that's like kind of my own perception.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: But I feel like, to me, gambling has more of
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: a negative connotation than than you know, alcohol.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And obviously, you know, in eighteen eighty one,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: the Cliff House would get a new owner, and I
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: didn't really talk about the original owners, but we're gonna
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: go ahead and talk about the second owner because it's
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: very interesting. His name was a Off Sutro. He was
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: a Jewish German born inventor, came to America and became
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: a millionaire from mining silver in Nevada.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Whoa really interesting background, like a very like a lot
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: of different things going on.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he came to San Francisco to become
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, real estate developer, and eventually the mayor.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, so like this guy's like, I mean, kind
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: of a big.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Deal, kind of you know, he wanted to re establish
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: the Cliff House as a family friendly place, so he remodeled,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: he got new staff, and he started building a railroad
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: to make it easier to.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Get to Oh well, you know, as one does.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: If you want people to come, you got to make
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: it make it easy for them, right.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: That's why we're going to plan to build a railroad
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: right outside the pod lab because you know, from my
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: house to yours, right, if you build it, they will come. Yeah. Yeah,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I would love to just like get on a train
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: and come to your house. Will that be incredible? I
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: have to drive through all the stupid traffic.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Oh I can just well, I was like, I already
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I could just drink my Starbucks on the way there,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: but I already do that anyway.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they can't slow you down that much. But
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: maybe they would have a bar.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Maybe I could just get a get pregame and on
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: my way here pre funk at like eleven am in
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three, there was a mini castle like addition
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to the structure that he made. And there's maybe some
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: foreshadowing with that.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Wait, foreshadowing foreshadowing, doesn't that mean like yeah, it's like
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: what's to come? I know, but like foreshadowing what like
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: you don't know yet castle stuff?
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Like what about castle kind of castle stuff? Like Okay,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: you have to wait, I'll tell you eventual, we'll get there.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: That's the point of foreshadowing. You're not supposed to know
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: until you get there, and you'll be like, oh, I
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: made a face that I looked at and said, that
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: is a face that you would say, like I hope
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: it sticks that way, you know what I mean? You
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: made a face. Yeah, I have to go back and
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: look at it. Yeah, I was like to you, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, that's a face where
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: moms say like, careful, you don't want your face to
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: stick that way.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: That can be like the screenshop we use for the thumbnail.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: The cliff House would encounter some bad luck in eighteen
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: eighty seven, a ninety eight foot schooner heading to Astoria, Oregon,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: loaded with kerosene, a cask of dynamite caps and about
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: forty two tons.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Of black powder. Oh my fuck, that's the correct reaction.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, this ends so poorly. There's no way this ends. Well. Well,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you about it.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: So it hit the rocks right next to the Cliffhouse.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: The crew did abandoned ship, so they all got affoard.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: It was completely an abandoned ship, okay, and a crowd
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: who was naturally gawking at the wreckage. They had left
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: because I don't know if everyone heard like what was
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: in the boat or not, but everyone was watching. And
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: then they all left except for two men who were
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: still watching from the cliff's edge, continuously being battered against
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the rocks. The ship fucking exploded like it exploded.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Hey what Okay, I just have to act okay, and
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: you sorry. You can say that again if I cut
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: you off in a weird spot. Okay. So did the
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: ship crash down in like the rocky little island things
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: that you see down in the water, like below the house.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I think so, because it was like right below the cliff. Okay,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So it didn't like crash into the cliff. I was
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: like just from like a.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it crashed into the rocks. Okay, okay, yeah,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So the ship exploded, shooting a wall of flames and
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: debris up the cliff. So it was close to the cliff.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: It catapulted those two men backward two hundred feet and
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: it was said that you could hear this blast in
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: San Jose, which is almost forty two miles away as
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the crow flies.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Both men survived, not the fuck they did not they
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: stop it had some serious injuries, but both of them
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: thankfully survived. The cliff house was hit the worst, destroying
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the north wing, blowing out windows, blowing doors off, hinges,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: and collapsing balconies.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Oh no, and.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Some nearby houses were also nearly torn apart. This is crazy,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: that is insane. But Sutro had everything repaired and returned
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: to business as usual.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean sure eventually yeah, yeah, okay, until Christmas
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Day of eighteen ninety four, when a fire completely destroyed
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: the original Cliffhouse. Okay, you guys, I'm starting to get like,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know, a little little bit of a bad
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: vibe from this place. I don't know. It doesn't give
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: me like a bad vibe, but something, I mean, there's
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: all it keeps going. Okay, it keeps going. I'm just saying,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: it seems like something doesn't want it there, right. I know,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: the rocks are like bitch, flowing shit up and then
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: it catches fire and burns down seriously.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: But Sutro, he would not be stopped. He soon had
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: plans for a new Cliff House. I mean, he's a millionaire, Okay,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: he's like, come on, yeah. Two years later he would
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: open a Victorian Gingerbread style eight story tall castle like hotel,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: dick Cliffe House, complete with turrets, spires in an observation tower.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And this new bill would only cost him seventy five
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which back then was two million eight hundred
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and thirty six thousand, three hundred and forty eight dollars
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and twenty one cents.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I love how everything just like costs basically a nickel,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: yeah right, I know.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: And also just for contacts. One million dollars back then
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: is like thirty nine million now, so he was like
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: a thirty nine millionaire.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah you know. Yeah, so like he was doing pretty
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: okay ish, pretty pretty good.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, So I'm going to send you two
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: photos of this.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: New Victorian gingerbread on a cliff. You're so mean, because
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I feel like this is going to make this is
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: going to hurt me.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: It's so fucking cool, Like I can't, I cannot get
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: over how cool this thing looks.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it has like a very Bavarian vibe
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: to it as well. I feel Jesus Christ, isn't this
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: so cool? Literally looks like one of those European castles
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: that's just like nestled into like this side of a cliff.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I know.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I'm even opening the pictures to look at it again,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: even though I've looked at them like a million times.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I love the one of all the people on the
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: beach because you can kind of see just like how
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like it looks kind of precariously positioned
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: on the cliff.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Well of that, yeah, I feel like that's foreshadowing, not
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: not what you think. Okay, yeah, oh my god, all
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: of the people with the horse drawn carriages in that
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: second one, again very Bavarian vibe. Yeah, okay, this is
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: like to look at this, like the texture and everything,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: like it looks very much like a photo. But then
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the castle itself looks like it's hand sketched into a
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: flat does kind of.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: But that second one, yeah, it doesn't even look real.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: It's so fucking cool. It had multiple dining areas, dancing
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and entertainment parlors, bars and art gallery, a gem exhibit,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: a photo gallery, panoramic views from large windows and open
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: air varandas gorge. And in the midst in the mid
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: mist mist, I mean the San Francisco.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: There's the miss coastal coastal castle. Yes, sorry anyways, yes,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: coastal castle. I want one, maybe not on a cliff. Yeah,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: that's kind of scary.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: In the midst of all of this, Sutro was also
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: building Sutro baths north of the cliff house.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: He also had a neighborhood, Sutro Heights. Oh yeah, okay.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I know I didn't really add that. I just kind
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: of threw that in. But back back to the Sutro Baths,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: a three acre public bathhouse with six saltwater swimming tanks
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: of varying sizes, shapes, and water temperatures. It had slides, trapees,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and diving boards and accommodated ten thousand people.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Holy fucking shit, it was huge. I thought this was
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: supposed to be safe exclusive. Well not anymore, not the bathhouse. Yeah,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: not anymore.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, Ever, since Sutro took it up, he really wanted
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: like an environment where a ton of people could come,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and he made the bath houses like for kind of
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the locals too, so they can have somewhere to swim
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: and have fun.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, I mean, you can only take so
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: much of the wealthiest money. You know. If you open
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: it up for larger consumption, broader consumption, just you know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: then maybe you could be like, you know, double your
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: money and instead of one million dollars equal to thirty
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: nine million dollars, it could be like a double millionaire
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: and you could have seventy eight billion thirty nine plus
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: thirty nine. Dude, It's it's just insane to think about,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: like the numbers, you know, when you do the conversions.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I find that so intriguing. I do, Yeah, I do.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, That's why I always look it up, because it's
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: especially when you're going back this par like the eighteen hundreds, like.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just no like context for unless you do
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: the conversion. It's just okay, change I mind here.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I had one photo of the bathhouses, but I found
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: a website earlier that showed like a shit ton of
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: photos and this one just like doesn't do it justice.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: So I have to send you this website. Okay. We
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: have buildings in a couple of downtown industrial areas in
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Portland and in Oregon City that look very similar to
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: this photo. It does look very industrial, like it's housing
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: grain or something. Yeah yeah, or greenhouses. Ooh yeah, it
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: does kind of look like a greenhouse a little bit.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I think once you see kind of the inside, it
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: does have like greenhouse vibes.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I think that was on purpose. Oh yeah, oh my gosh,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, oh my god. The slide there I like
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: piled up like five people deep. Yeah, so funny. I
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: just can't get enough of looking at it. It's so cool.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: They have like a boat in the middle of one
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: of the photos. It looks like they're like rowing a
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: canoe or something in the water.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think i've seen that one yet, but yeah,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: it does look like they must have had some kind
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: of little like I don't know, just sort of like
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: casual it's like outside of the water, sort of like
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: mingling spaces that. Like, they have so much greenery, it's
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: really beautiful. There was like this stadium style seating up
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: in parts of it. Like it's it's so huge. I
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: think it's hard to capture all of it. Three acres,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: ten thousand people. Yeah, no, I mean when you said
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: three acres, I was like, ugh, it's giving Grand Lodge
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: or like Great Wolf Lodge or well, I don't know
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: you I just because the swimming pool. Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: So don't look at any more of the photos, but
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I want to close. So just two years after Sutro
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: built this gorgeous Victorian ginger red Castle Palace oasis, he
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: passed away no in eighteen ninety eight and his properties
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: went to his daughter, Emma. Do we like her? I
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: think so?
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I think I like Emma. I'm not one hundred percent.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I don't know Emma's life,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: but yeah, that's fair. This cliff house would survive an
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: earthquake in nineteen oh six, which is pretty impressive because
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think there was a lot of earthquake proof
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: things back then.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: No, can't imagine there would be.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: But the next year it would not survive a fire. Yeah,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: another cliff house burnt down.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Ah.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this gorgeous building was only there eleven years. I know,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: a castle to the ground. Things weren't things weren't fireproof. Yeah, No,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of things burnt back then.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and everything was. I mean everything was flammable.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Everything was like on the verge of explosion constantly.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: It seems like kind of ironic though, because it is
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: like right by the water.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you don't picture that being its demise.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it happened again. No, it will live
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: on in infamy though. On the cover of Blue Oyster
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Cults nineteen eighty eight rock album Imagine Ose.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Stop it what I have a photo for you. It's
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: a really cool album cover, Like I kind of want
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: it on my wall. Wow, I'm not cool. It's so
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: it looks so spooky like they I don't know if they.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I assume they added like the clouds and lightning, but
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it was just like a stormy day.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: That doesn't look like lightning to me. That's Oh, it's
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: just like like a it's like a puffy clouds. Yeah,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: it's like shadows stuff, which is eerie in a different way,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: but like so cool.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: But Emma decided to rebuild the Cliffhouse once again.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so you know, a.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: New concrete neo classical style building opened in nineteen oh nine,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: so they only freaking fly through building these buildings like
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: it does not take long.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Which I feel like may speak to why they keep
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: having to rebuild.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Right, right, But at least this one's in concrete this time,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: so hopefully it's a little more flammable proof flame flame proof.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Flame, yeah, flameproof, or yeah, combustion proof something. Listen.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: But in case you didn't know what neo classical style was,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: because I really didn't, it's columns, simple geometric forms, a
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: grand scale, and ornamental details.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I have a photo for you. I could be totally wrong,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: but this almost looks more to me like what I
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: would think of as like being like mission style, and
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I might be a total tater tot. I don't know.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Now I need to know what mission style because I
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: All the articles told me neo classical, so I'm not
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: an architecture major.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: The mission style has more of almost a Spanish looking flare. Yeah,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: this like the neo classical looks more like I don't know, anglicized. Yeah. Yeah,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: but it has like a very similar vibe in a way.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: It's cool looking in nineteen thirty six, which is so
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: this was built in nineteen oh nine, so you know,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: kind of like thirty years later. The Whitney brothers, who
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: owned Playland at the beach An Amusement Park from nineteen
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: twenty to nineteen seventy two. Oh wow, they bought the
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Cliff House in nineteen thirty six. I said that, okay,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: and turned it from elegant dining and entertainment to an
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: upscale roadhouse. I don't really know what that means, but
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: that's what they said, and they did remodel it several times.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: But I will roadhouse, right. I don't really know what
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: that means either. I don't know. I want to show
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: you a photo of the playhouse or what playland at
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: the beach. That kind of sounds like a coastal sex club.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: It was an amusement park, but it was very you know,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Potato potato, you know, it was a very nineteen twenties
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: amusement park. Creepy clowns, Oh my god.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: They're right right in the The big photo they have
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: on their on this article is just like this bighead
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: of a creepy clown and shish kabob sandwiches for ninety
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: nine cents? What the fuck is a shish kabobs sand
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: in which I hope you take the stick out. I
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: don't know, maybe a point. Maybe it's bob.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Like because we can't. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Everything's ninety nine cents. That seems like a lot for
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: back then. Well, this is clearly not a photo from
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirty six. Yeah, right, have been like in the seventies. Yeah, yeah,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: that feels a little bit more timely. Yeah yeah, Oh okay,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: So we have some photos of the cliff House. Gimme,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: kim me, gimme. It looks like pipe place.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: This is the nineteen thirty seven one. So it did
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: go through several remodels. They added this giant sign on
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: top that says the cliff House.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: All those freaking old cars are so cool, freaking want it.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: And then the one from ninety fifty oh five that
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: is like a totally fifties remodel, like the vibe they
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: put like cursive cliff House.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I can definitely towel base on the cars too. Yeah. Yeah,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: but it starts to look a little bit more modern,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: you know, compared to nineteen thirty six.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they remodeled a ton. Yeah, And eventually in nineteen
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: seventy seven, the National Park Service took over the property,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: returning the building to its original neoclassical design. So they
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: remodeled it back to that first one I showed you, wow,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and making it a part of the Golden Gate National
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Recreational Area. That's cool. So I have a current photo
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I want to go to there.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: And this is a view from like the ocean, so
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you can see a totally different view of the hotel.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: It's not as pretty as the Victorian gingerbread house.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: It's not as pretty as literally any other iteration of it.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: It looks like a normal building. No, Like, it looks
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: like a fucking office. Like I feel like I'm in
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: a rent space there to take people's passport photos.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I know, there's like no verandas there's like a duck
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: on the bottom. But no, it's it's not amazing. No,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: definitely not like the olden days. So the sutro baths
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: burned to the ground in nineteen sixty six. Why is
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: all this dude shit burning to the ground?
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Like, what did he do? What did he do? These buildings?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: But the ruins can still be seen and I have I.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Was gonna say, like the building itself, but there's like
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: this huge like saltwater reservoir herd.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: It's ruined, so it's not maintained at all.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Well they should. The one of it burning in nineteen
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: sixty six, you can see it next to the bolt
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: house nineteen sixty six. Oh, this is so heartbreaking, I know.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: And then the second photo is what's left today. Yeah,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: and you can see the cliff House building from so
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I mean it really is that close next to it? Yeah?
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's so sad that beautiful greenhouse oasis is
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: now just a friggin hole in the ground with some
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit of concrete structures brick. It looks like
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Tell I don't know if they were doing like some
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: sort of like cement style oaks, which like the reservoir
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: part of it, that does look like cemant. This does
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: look like it could be some sort of like that
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: looks like masonry. It's hard to tell. It's not like
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: the like the sharpest image. I can't see where I
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: would discern like rebar like in more modern days. What
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: in the actual thought thing? What are you telling I'm
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: just crawling across the floor. Hey, what are you doing?
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: You could have just walked, because there's no cameras. I
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: that was so unnecessary. Opened the door slowly and I
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: watched him my crawl. I could see you seeing something,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: but I was like, I don't know what's happening, Bedbere
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Like the jig is up, we are you're here? Say high? Yeah.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So the current day cliff House closed during COVID and
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: was unable to reopen with the same owners. It was
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: supposed to reopen in twenty twenty four with new ownership,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: but that has been delayed until at least twenty twenty five,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: which is this year. I'm not really sure. I didn't
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: see any updates. I didn't look super hard, but.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Leslie, it's fine because I don't want to stay there.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: I don't want to way, it's not a castle. Now.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: This delay was due to unexpected repairs costing over ten
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: million dollars. They wouldn't give an exact boy, they said
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: it was. It was over ten million dollars.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. So that's gonna, you know, put a a
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: damper on things a little bit, a little bit.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: But this new place cannot be called the Cliffhouse. Why
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: the previous owners trademarked the name and even removed all
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: of the cliff House signage when they left. There might
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: be negotiations happening to be able to call at the
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: cliff House, but I don't I don't think they wanted
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: to give up their business. I think they were pretty
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: sad about it. COVID was an unfortunate time, got a
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: lot of people, so it's kind of understandable that maybe
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: they don't they don't want.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: To give them the name, you know. Yeah, well, and
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: let's face it, if you have ten million dollars of
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: repairs that need to be done, maybe maybe we don't
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: monkey with naming rights. Call it something the fuck else
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: It's kind of sad though, because it's like historically it's
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: always been the Cliff House there on a cliff, you know.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know. It's all kind of sad
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, we'll see. Apparently it's supposed to open
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: this year, but who knows. You know, what might make
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: us feel a little better if we go back and
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about Jake the Alligator.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Man, because I literally cannot get enough of this dude.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: He is a ladies man. Yeah, I forgot that's how
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: we got here, and.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to find out, like where exactly he
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: came from.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it was said that he was.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Originally part of the collection at Whitney's Museum in San Francisco,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: which Whitney is the name of the brothers who bought
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: the Cliff House. Yeah right, okay, Yeah, and there was
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: a museum originally housed in the Sutro Baths then in
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: the basement of the Cliffhouse.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: It was not the Whitney's collection. They might have had
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: some of their personal collection in this collection. But I
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: did find that there was a museum called the Music Mechanique, Oh,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: which is like friend is up front.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would assume, so I mean it could be
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: like Spanish. Yeah, you know, it's a Latin based language.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: It looks yeah, it looks like Frenchie to me, probably French. Yeah,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: this was not the Whitney's collection.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: It was owned by a different man, although I think
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: maybe the Whitneys had some of their collection, their like
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: personal collection stuff in here.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Oh it's not exactly clear.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: But the music mechanique part was a museum of over
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: three hundred antique coin operated mechanical amusements Okay, arcade games,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: music boxes, player pianos, fortune tellers, motion pictures, peep shows,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: animated dioramas, photo booths, and laughing sal who came from
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: the Playland Funhouse amusement park. So they there was some
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: of the Whitney connection, and I think that they were friends.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: I think the guy who owned this was friends with
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the Whitneys. Okay, he did move this, all the mechanical
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: part of the museum. He moved to Pure forty five
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and two and is still there today,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: so you can still visit.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: This, So there's still like a yeah, okay, So I
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: wasn't sure if this was going to go the way
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: of like kind of old timey you know, different amusement
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: machines like that, or if it was going to go
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: like kind of more of a jay Leno vibe and
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: it's just like a car museum.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Oh no, mechanic, yeah, kind of does somend like that,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: but no, it's all those fun kind of like the
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Zoltar machine that I visited in Portland.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Recently thousand percent when I was picturing.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: And I'm sending you a photo because I mentioned someone
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: named laughing Sal.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel as though I feel like you're.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Gonna love her, Oh dear god. So on one side
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: you can see the musy mechanic and trends I think
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: that is at the Sutra bath house, and then you
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: can see on the other side that's laughing Sal.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, she's not as scary as I thought. You guys
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: kind of have the same hair. I mean yeah. Slowly
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: throughout recording, it is transforming.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I want to see her inaction. I don't quite know
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: what she does, but she's got her hands.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Out like this. I don't know what to do.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Her mouth is open. I'm sure she laughs.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Looks like she's missing it too. Currently. I don't know
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: if that's her natural state.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Baseballed laughing with two f's two by the way, so.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Of course, of course.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of some of the stuff you can
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: encounter at Music Mechanique. And I think she's still there
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: at the current day one at Pure forty five.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Okay. So I was kind of wondering if maybe this
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: was where Jake was housed.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: He's not coin operated.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah that I know of. Yeah, what we never saw
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: was his soft under belly, and maybe that's where he's
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: got the little coins. Maybe, I don't know.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: We don't know exactly where he keeps his key all
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the time either, so there might be slot somewhere or
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: a slot. But when there was a museum at the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Sutro baths, they did have some rare and expensive collectibles.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that these were part of whoever
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: owned the mechanics.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, the mechanique.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I think this was more of someone else's. I don't
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I couldn't figure it out.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Really, no, that makes sense, But I think it was
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: maybe the Whitney's collection, okay. And I feel like in
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: a salt water bathhouse, maybe you don't store like your
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: mechanical stuff.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if the bath houses were closed
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: when they put the museum in there, or if it
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: just because it had like a bunch of room in it,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: so maybe they had like a special spot for the
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: museum with the pools, I'm not really sure, or if
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: like they like drained all the pools and just had
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: a museum in there.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: That would seem so odd to me.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not one hundred percent sure, but we're going
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: to talk about some of the stuff that they did have. Okay,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: there were natural history exhibits, galleries of sculptures, paintings, and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: artifacts from Egypt, China, the Middle East, Mexico, and even
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Egyptian mummies. I did already say Egypt, but that did
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: include with mummy.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: But like artifacts that's different than you know.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting because you remember Jake supposedly was in
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: the sand dunes of Pakistan, right right. They had stuff
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: from the Middle East. I don't know, I'm just saying,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: and then also mummies. He was like a mummified you know,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: some people actually think the cause of all of these
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: fires could have been the Egyptian artifacts because there is
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: some you know, things about people removing things from like
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Egyptian tombs and becoming cursed. Yeah, so I don't know.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think obviously, we know, we don't think Egyptian
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: stuff is inherently like evil or anything.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly if you're although fuck around and find out. Yeah,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I'm like, remove Egyptian like mummies and what happens, I
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: don't know, like remove anyone from their intended resting place
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: and then and then tell me who's evil here.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: It's funny you say that too. We'll circle back to
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: that in a minute.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to leave my feet where they are, but
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I appreciate a warning if I need to reposition them.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, maybe at the very end, I'll you know. So
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I'm still kind of speculating, like where Jake came from.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Did he come from maybe the amusement park because I'm
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: sure they had some sideshow type things. It reported that,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: you know, he was involved in, like carnivals and things,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: so it could have come from that, or possibly he
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: was at the Cliffhouse gift Shop, which opened by the
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Whitney Brothers in nineteen thirty nine and they claim to
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: be the largest gift shop in the world in the
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: forties and fifties, so that kind of has like the
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Marsha's Free museum vibes like this huge.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Gift shop with just like a bunch of shit in it. Yeah,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: it could have been from that too, get your chatch gates.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but still I really couldn't really really really really
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: I really really really I really really really.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Wait.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to like nail down where exactly he
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: came from. But I'm pretty sure he came from one
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: of the Whitney's random weird collection. I really feel like
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: maybe he was at the amusement park and the museum,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: and maybe he was at all of these places.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I mean that that also could be true, right, I mean,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: he could have kind of been moved around. I feel like,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: you know, if you find sort of some sort of
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: an exhibition piece that seems like it does well.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's a looker too, I mean, who wouldn't
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: want to put him all over the place?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Boy, howdy, let's go. Okay, we're moving on from Jake.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: I'm done. I've given up.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: We're gonna put him in the past until my bonus
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: because I have a full Patreon bonus about some of
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: the about Jake the.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Delegator man, because I literally can't stop. I get that.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: But we're going to be moving on, so as an
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: extension of playland at the beach.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: That amusement park we just talked about, Oh that plays.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Camera Obscura was built on the observation deck of the Cliffhouse,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: now on the National Register of Historic Places. Camera Obscura
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: is a rare device based on a fifteenth century designed.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: By Leonardo da Vinci. Okay, it produces three hundred and
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: sixty degrees of spectacular live images of the Seal Rock
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: area projected onto a giant parabolic disc in the center
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: of the room. Wow, okay, I'm gonna send you a
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: photo because it's like this cute little building and it
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: kind of is shaped like a camera. Oh that's a
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: storable ball. You know how we feel about a theme.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I love a theme. I love a theme.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: This was the invention that actually led to photography. Ooh,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I mean not this like building itself, but like the
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Leonardo da Vinci's the one it was based on.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Mister Pence.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to read you a quote of what
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: this is. I didn't want to describe it in my
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: own words. Well for yeah, that's quote. The device is
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: built using a box or a room with a small
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: hole that lets lighten. The light from an outside image
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: passes through the hole and is projected upside down, but
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: in scale as it strikes the inside surface. Oftentimes mirrors
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: or reflective discs can be used to produce a right
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: side up image like sounds like a camera, like a camera.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: And I also knew that, and I I'm so glad
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: that you just had that quote because I feel like
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what I would have said.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And you can kind of see. I know
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: the quality of the photo I sent you isn't great,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: but on the bottom right side is kind of that
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: projected image of the rocks, and there's like a bunch
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: of people standing around looking at it.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like a cult gathering. It does. Yeah,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: cults of Seal Rock. Yeah. Wow, Okay, And it's interesting
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: because at one point I think it's the neo classic
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: that I was like, this makes me think of Mission,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: and then I was like, it also reminds me of
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: the Mcminimums, which of course takes us to Freemasons. And
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: then it's not that far of a jump to everything connects.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: It really does. If you look for it, it's there,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: and if it's not there, you'll find.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of seal rocks, I'm going to tell you
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit about that. So they weren't directly below
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: the cliff house, and we're once home to hundreds of
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: sea lions.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's why they're called seal rocks. I mean that
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: makes sense.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Tons of people would come and watch them from the
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: balcony of the cliffhouse.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And there was one.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Seal I in there in particular that was quite famous.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Oh and his name was Ben Butler. Stop it named
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: after a Civil War general by a famous newspaper publisher.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I was gonna send you this picture of
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: seal Rock before I moved on to Ben Butler. So
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you that really quick so you could
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: see all the seals in the rock. Because they're fat
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: and fucking cue.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: They're hilarious. Are they kind of make like I don't know, yeah,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: it's like throaty or I listen, I'm not going to
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: capture it.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Ben Butler was known as the King of Seals at
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: a conservative fourty pounds.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know how they knew it. Well, seals weigh
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: that much, I guess.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: So that's like a lot, right, Yeah, that's what they
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: said the article.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: So I don't know. I mean, I think when they
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: are actually right off the coast like this, that makes sense.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think the seals that we have in a
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: lot of Oregon. I don't think a lot of them
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: militia are like actually down at the coast. Yeah they're
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: pretty stall Yeah, I think they're smaller.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: But the guy was apparently rhobic nikes Sadly, Ben Butler
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: passed away in nineteen or sorry, in eighteen ninety five.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: How do they know that? Well, I'm telling you.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, he was battling another male sea lion. I don't
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: know how the heck the other guy won. I don't
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: know if he was bigger or if maybe Ben just
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: got too old.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: He's yeah old.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe he like could move because he was like Jaba
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: the hut, like yeah, kind of Java, right, just like
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: laon Reped.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Benny was so beloved they just couldn't let him go.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: So they stuffed him. No flight him at the sutro baths. Oh,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I don't care for that. So they had some tax
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: under me there though.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: That's like another kind of clue that maybe Jake did
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: come from there.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sending you correct a photo of the article
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: about Benny Boy God and then his stuff. Oh, he
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't even look that big in this photo. I mean,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know to scale, like, I don't, I don't know,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: but he doesn't look that big in that photo. But
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: it was a huge place, so maybe that's like a
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: really big yeah, so that was him stuff. But the
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: sutro bast okay. We I feel like it just feels
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: so morbid. I mean, I think taxidermy in general has
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: a morbid vibe, but for a creature like that size,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: for that scale, it just feels I don't know, that
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: somehow feels very icky. Yeah. I feel like there are
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: so many people that are doing like really incredible and
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: interesting and very like artistic work with and in an
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: ethical way, you know. And not to say that this
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: necessarily wasn't because obviously sounds like they witnessed the back,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: but I don't know, my god, it's just an animal
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: this large. It just feels I don't know.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's so sweet though, that he was such
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: like a staple people were used to seeing him, and
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: they were like, well, we can't just like leave his
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: body out there, you know.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: They went and got him and like, well, no, because
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: it would sting up the whole coast for like a month.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: But they preserved him an up thousand pounds almost of seal.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: How did they even get I feel like he maybe
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: didn't weigh that much. That seems like a crazy I.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Don't love questions. I don't know. Okay, should I look
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: and see how much? Like is he a specific type
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: of seal like San Francisco He's a San Francisco seal? Okay,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: see lion San Francisco treat he's a sea lion? Is
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: he a sea lion? Yeah? A seal and a sea
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: lion are different because seals are much smaller.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: But I don't know why they called him the king
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: of seals. I think maybe they just type.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Of that well and a seal rocked. Yeah, yeah, but
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's like seals and sea lions. We got taken.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: We got taken real hard. On average adult male California
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: sea lions in San Francisco way between six hundred and
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: eight hundred and fifty pounds.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I could see him being like
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: a thousand pounds, like if he has a real big boy,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: five thousand pounds is like.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't know questionable sources. The females weigh
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: between two hundred and two fifty. Damn, they gonna get
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: so smooched. Yeah, they'd be smooshing. Yes, that's maybe that's
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: where smush comes from. Snooky wa smash mush. Oh gosh.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I have recently become addicted to TikTok, and I'm
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: saying when I was talking about this beloved Benny, all
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: I could think of is the new Justin Bieber.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Song, Hey you, Benny that was with Selene. I will
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: still be cheating better than you, better than you. It's
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: it's like a fake Justin Bieber song. Oh okay, because
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: there's this.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: There's all this drama with Justin and Selena and Benny
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: and Haley, and I know all about it because I'm now.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Addicted to TikTok. It's been going on for so much,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: so long, but someone made this amazing song and I
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: cannot get it out of my head. I'm gonna need
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: you to look at this song. Go to TikTok. All right,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: typing Benny Justin Bieber banger. It's a banger. I understand
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: TikTok now. It's pretty. Guy's pretty understand TikTok. You guys,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I just have to say, like, if you're just in
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Bieber and you're actually on your own socials, like don't
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: you have like a manager? Don't you have like pr people?
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: I feel like you really should, because yeah, there's stuff happening,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: but I'm loving what's coming out as a result because
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: it's making me understand TikTok and the Internet like I
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: never have before. Okay, and I'm really grateful. I am
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: officially Yeah, you got to go check it out after this.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: We got to take take a because I'm out of
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: here right. I totally got sidetracked because I'm like talking
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: about Benny and then this song just gets in my head.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: It's going to be in there forever.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: You're welcome, But we still have a couple of things
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: to talk about, because you know, we didn't even get
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: to Hauntings yet.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: We have one more interesting thing. I don't know, like,
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: are we really like is it going to get better
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: than this? I feel like we've kind of like.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Actually, no, it gets far worse from here on out.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: But okay, I'm well jazzed about it. So we're going
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: to move on and we're going to talk about the
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Cliffhouse suspension bridge. For a second. In the eighteen eighties,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: a rope and wood bridge linked the cliff House to
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: one of the steal rocks.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Nope, nope.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: It was about twenty five to thirty feet above, depending
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: on the tide, the sand or the shallow water.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: In eighteen eighty four, some dumbass boys rocked the bridge
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: so hard that they flipped it upside down, and there
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: were about forty other people on the bridge, several of
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: whom were seriously injured. Nobody died that I know of,
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: But what the fuck? Boys don't be flipping bridges?
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Well, how the fuck would you know back then, because like,
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: what did you take roll call before everybody walked across
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: the bridge? Those guys maybe, I don't know what a
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: bunch of little punks. I know. Oh it's such dumb boys,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: so stupid. We should throw rocks at them, Yeah, like
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: really big rocks, like seal rock.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Like if they were the only ones on the bridges,
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: that would be fine. Like yeah, flip yourselves.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, flip yourselves all the way over forty other people,
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Like that's a lot of people want suspension bridge that Like,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like it might have broken it either way. Yeah.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Like also I'm I'm immediately out when you say suspension bridge.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, me too, totally. I know there's probably suspension
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: bridges that I have uh encountered in my real life,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: and that's fine. I didn't know that's what they were.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I have like nightmares about falling off of them. I
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: don't know why, but I do. And it's terrifying.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Because all of us here in the Pacific Northwest are
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: trained to think about the big one. Maybe yeah, yeah,
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: yeah maybe, or maybe in a past life I was
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: on the suspension bridge and I got looked over and
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: that's why I feel the need to include it in
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: this episode or shirt.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Or maybe I was Benny the what's his last name?
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: Benny, Benny, Benny Blonco, Benny Butler, Oh right, that guy,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: that guy, that guy ka.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: But they did not rebuild the suspension bridge, feeling that
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: it was safer to watch the view from the cliff
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: instead of.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah in the view, you know, yeah, they're like
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: because men, yeah, yeah, let's just not do that again.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Let's not even give them the opportunity. So that's fair.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, a wise choice here. You're ready
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: for ghosties okay, whatever, there's some ghosties. Naturally, we have
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: to talk about the hauntings, right, you can't forget to
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: talk about the hauntings. Who would do that? Yeah, it's
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: not like this is just like a history podcast or
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: anything whatever.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: There is a spirit people say that they see called
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Earth named Natalie Harrison, who wandered the beaches below the
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: cliff house waiting for her fiance to return from World
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: War One.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, not World War two.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Yeah, I mean, but he sadly never came
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: back to her orner and people say she passed away
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: of a broken heart. Yeah, and they still see her
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: forlornly walking the coastline, forever waiting on her man's But
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: beware if you are a man visiting this area, because
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: she might lure you off the.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Cliffs to your death like siren. Yeah. I don't know.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true or if people
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: just want to like feel a nice woman. Seems like
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: a true but yeah, I could see it being true.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe, just like, don't be a man
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: who's just like being a dick.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Don't follow a beautiful woman off a cliff, or do.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Or do if you're that kind of man. Yeah, I
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: feel like we're just at a we're at a point
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: in our society where we need more men to like
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: not follow women or really follow them and follow them
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: straight off off the cliff. Yeah.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you make a really good point.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: And see, it's not that scary because it's just men.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I would love to chat about bears.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: There's no bears in this episode. Just see Sea Lions,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: the Paranormal Ghost Society, which is like that website A
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: sent you. It was from them.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: They investigated there and caught an EVP of someone crying,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: So it could have been Natalie, or it could have
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: been any of the one hundred and twenty eight lives lost
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: in the SS City of Rio de Janeiro shipwreck. Well,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: for Fox's sake, that's a long name for a ship,
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: sure is.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: But I am just going to say, I realize you've
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: told me her name, But as soon as you talk
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: about a body of water and a Natalie, I'm just
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: like Natalie Nataline, Natalie.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: It was Natalie Harrison, Yeah, not Natalie Wood. Yeah, which
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: I want you to cover. Many of the lives lost
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: in the shipwreck were Chinese and Japanese immigrants who were
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: asleep in their cabins when the wreck occurred. It was
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: so devastating that it is considered the Titanic of the
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Golden Gates.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, that's like, I mean, it's
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: it's not on the same scale, but this was like
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: the biggest scaleing it's a shipwreck.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: I know, it's crazy another Titanic reference in these, like
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: because we referenced it in the Jake episode and the
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Benson and She ever wore Titanic guess just all over
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: the place.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: It's like we may or may not have seen a
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: movie all about it in like very formative years.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: It's still my favorite movie ever made.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I feel like it's it's way up there
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: for me. It's like, if nothing else else, it's just
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: like porn for your like eye holes, all of the
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: the actual sex part or oh I don't even care
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: about that. No, No, it's just like, I mean, it's
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: such a beautiful ship, all of the dresses and jewelry,
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: the my god, the way that they styled their hair.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: Leonard like, I guess whatever.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think this ship was like fancy necessarily, but
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: it was just like the tragedy of losing all of
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: those people, and it was more biggest shipwreck in the area.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, more of like a just a true like passenger ship, yeah,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: rather than a sailing caste system. Yeah that's fair.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: I mean all the Chinese and Japanese immigrants were you know,
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: still down below in the lowest you know, kind of
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: just like the Titanic.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I guess that depends, like were there
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: people up on I don't know. I don't heard a
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: lot about SHO. I was gonna say it. That's like
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: one of those things where it's like it's hard to
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: know because you're like I would have to do a
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: lot of digging to find out, like was this a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: racist and or socio economic situation of oppression or was
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: this just a tragedy because everybody was asleep, you know
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: what I mean.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Like and there were like I think like two hundred
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: people on the ship, and one hundred and twenty eight
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: people died, so like the on board died.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Roughly like sixty sixty five percent ish, I agree off
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: the top of my head.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people also see a ghost ship. Uh do you
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: remember that schooner that exploded? What it was named the parallel.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: I don't I guess that's schooners. Shut up, cut up,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: shut up, you scuttle let Yeah, what's the scuttle butt? Uh?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Its name was the Parallel, And people say that they
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: see it in the it just kind of vanishes before
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: their eves, so they see the.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Ghost of the Parallel. I mean maybe just sailed away.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: People are so dramatic, I know, and all kind of shits.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know if all ships kind of look the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: same or if this one was like really to steing.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: Well I was gonna say, I mean, depending on when
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: they're documenting the sighting. Yeah, ships of certain eras are
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: very that is true, potentially very recognizable because not a
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: lot of people are outsailing boats that look like the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Nina into you know.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Santa Maria, do you in the bottom while you
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: drink is saying griya.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: In the ruins of the Sutro bass, people hear voices
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: and laughter when no one else is around.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: No, thank you please.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: They see apparitions of people in old timey bathing suits,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: which would be pretty cool.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Actually, I like, I'm kind of here that cure for
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: the fashion of the Yes, oh my god, absolutely some
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: of whom might be a number of people who drowned
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: on site though, Oh that's a bumma, or even.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: A sixteen year old boy named Frank who fell headfirst
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: into one of the empty concrete.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, and
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: he didn't he didn't survey. Well, that doesn't sound like
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: he drowned. Nope, he did not.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he hit his head in the Yeah. But
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: a number of other people did drown on site. I
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: think there was like a man or again, an older
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: man and a woman.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: That they talked about. Yeah. There is also a creepy
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: tunnel at the baths. Baths okay, because why wouldn't there be.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: It was used to pump sea water into the pools,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: So nothing nefarious, no Shanghai, just gonna say, uh was
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: for water pump in. There has of course been some
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: vandalism in the tunnel, things like inverted pentagram, leading people
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: to believe there's some sort of devil worshiping, satanic panic
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: activity happening.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Oh well, I mean, you know, it's like we already
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: made the connection to the Freemasons, and I got to
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: keep going. Yeah. Yeah, just.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Legend has it if you light a candle in the tunnel,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: a woman will be summoned and she will throw the
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: candle in the ocean.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: I was like, am I the woman? And did I
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: just like? Am I just hanging out? I don't understand this, Like,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: why would you want to just summon this woman so
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: she could throw your candle in the ocean.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe she's like I don't like light, Like, get the
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: fuck out of here, throw this candle in the ocean.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Weird? What if she's worried about it catching fire again
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: and she's like, get this fire out of here. I
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: didn't think of.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: That until just now, Yeah, that we might be onto something.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: What is chucking it towards the ship that exploded?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Oh oh, I don't know. I really feel like maybe
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: she's like, get the fire out of here. Like face
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: burned down. That's so disrespectful.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Literally everything they put here just like burns to the ground.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: Have you learned nothing? Yeah? Wow? Okay?
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Interesting Yeah, and then to the last part where you
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: may have to put up.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Your little I felt it coming. This is something that
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: you just loved to hear. It's your favorite thing. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just telling you you're gonna love to hear this,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: that's your favorite thing. You're a liar once again. We
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: have this old story. The area surrounding the Cliffhouse and
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Sutro Baths used to be the Golden Gate Cemetery.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: I scared its board out of her.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: In the nineteen thirties, they exhumed over eighteen thousand bodies
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: and had them moved, but in a tale as old
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: as fucking time, they did not manage to get everyone.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: And in nineteen ninety three they discovered hundreds more unmarked grapes.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Jesus fucking Christ. And so we're so shocked that everything
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: we build on around Oh, that's why earlier you were like, yeah,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: move someone from their resting place and like fuck around
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: and find out. And I'm like, oh yeah, I'm just
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: saying it's rude.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that happened, gosh, yeah, And they moved these
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: bodies in the in the nineteen thirties and they didn't
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: find the rest of the unmarked grapes until nineteen ninety three.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: So sixty wait, sixty years, sixty three years, yes, wowsers. Well,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that we ended on that happy note. We'll
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: talk about Jake the Alligator.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: Mantimore oh my god, wild.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that could cause like this
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: kind of cursey.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, okay, listen, okay, so hear me out.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: What if we just build all of this shit where
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: there's a bunch of dead people and like we'll get
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: some of them, but like inevitably probably not going to
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: find everyone, so like, but fuck it, let's.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Do this and then also have like ancient artifacts and.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: We'll bring shit that doesn't belong here and doesn't want
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: to be here, and honestly, it's kind of pissed that
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: we've taken it from the place where it wants to be, yeah,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: or they want to be, and then we're just going
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: to be like totally surprised when shit keeps burning down.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, Hopefully it's over with.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: Hopefully you know, the new place, they're able to open
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: it back up and we'll see what happens. I guess
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: I wish them the best of luck.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: It is a gorgeous spot. Very previews. Yeah, oh I
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: did forget to say.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: There was an earthquake and all the sea lions moved,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: so they that used to be like their permanent home,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: but now they only come back like certain times easonally, yeah, seasonally.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I don't know if this if the.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Sea lions are like what when they come around now
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: like nowadays?
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, that's interesting. Yeah, so you might go and not
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: even see seals at Seal Rock now sea lions, Yeah,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: sea lions, sea lions. You won't see any of them,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: seals or sea lions.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: And I wonder where Ben Butler ended up like his
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: stuffed yeah, his stuffed carcass.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know where he ended up either. Hopefully he's
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: in a museum somewhere. Yeah, maybe we'll have to hunt
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: him down right, anyone knows where, Fenny Anny, let me know.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: See you. This is how I know that you're like
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: really into tech talk because you immediately got on like
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: the trend. And if I was thinking of like Benny
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: in like a musical way, I would have been like,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: but but Benny and the JITs, that's true. Yeah, that
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: probably would have been the Benny I thought about before
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: TikTok ruined my brain. Yeah. Well you know, brain run
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: is real.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I've experienced it now. So I wasn't even looking
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: I was looking for skincare tips. Okay, I wasn't even
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: looking for a drama and I found it and I'm
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: sucked in.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: Oh it found you the road to rot thinking about
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: not justin Bieber, thinking about the cliff house. All right,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: she is spreading the dick. She is going to select
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: our card. Her hair is a beautiful chistnut. Interesting. That
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: kind of looks like the side of a cliff. What
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: is that? Four pentacles in reverse does look like it's
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: on a cliff. It's like a woodpecker on a tree,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: but totally looks like a cliff. Okay. For the four
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: of Pentacles, our keywords are security, materialism, caution, possessiveness, breed,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: and creative blocks. Oh interesting, okay. In some tarot decks,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: the fourth Pentacles features a man with four pentagrams attached
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: to his body. He did talk about the inverted pentagrams
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: in the interesting just something.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: Pentagrams always reminds me of like money though, and Sutro
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: was like a millionaire.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, pentacles is definitely I mean, that's a
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: definite linkage. The image suggests his money and possessions define him.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I think so someone who's making Sutro baths
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: and suitral heights and all yeah things built himself a castle. Yeah,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: force symbolize stability. Therefore, this card signifies financial security or
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: seeking it, which I feel like is there's there's a
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: little bit of a linkage to multiple like eerrows this
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: story with that and the new one too, I mean
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: even yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking when the
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: four of Pentacles appears reversed. It suggests your conservative attitude
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: and limited vision are causes of stagnation. As a result,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: you encounter obstacles and delays that keep you from moving ahead, like.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: Having ten over ten million dollars in repairs.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: The possibly you need to make changes to stop clinging
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: to old ideas and tried and true methods, but you're
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: afraid to take a risk. Oh interesting, huh. I feel
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: like that could relate to maybe that current ownership. Can
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: you read that one more time? You need to make
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: changes to stop clinging, like as if to a cliff,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: to old ideas and tried and true methods, but you're
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: afraid to take a risk.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: That does kind of remind me of present day, but
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: also like all the remodeling it went through and stuff.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. In a reading about money, this card recommends against
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: an investment or financial venture at this time, I mean
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: this could be applicable to the past as well, because like.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: All the money they sunk into however, many buildings and
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: remodels and everything is basically gone.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, that was kind of what I was saying.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it indicates imprudent spending or back decisions regarding money
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: or property. Wow, Okay, Yeah. If the reading is about
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: your job, the reverse four can mean you feel insecure
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: in your position. Outsourcing, cutbacks, or competition may threaten your job.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: You may be passed over for promotion or fail because
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: your skills are outdated or inadequate.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: That kind of reminds me not that like their skills
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: were outdated and inadequate, but the people who were running
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: it during COVID, and there was a lot of drama
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: about that that I didn't include. They like didn't renew
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: their lease for for reasons. There's a lot there was
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of drama about that.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: Interesting. So yeah, I don't know. In a reading about love,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: you may fear losing control in a relationship because you
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: sense your power dwindling, like waiting by the shore for
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: your maybe your fiance. You feel insecure, perhaps you depend
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: on your partner for financial support and feel trapped in
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: the relationship, which I feel like also speaks to a
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: certain era. Okay, there's an extra exert. You've heard the
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: saying money is the root of all evil, but the
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: actual quote is love of money. Greed is the root
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: of all kinds of evil. In some tarot decks, this
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: card is labeled greed. The ooth Taro, however, calls it
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: power and gives a more positive interpretation, a solid foundation
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: on which you can create something more sound, which is
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: interesting because when we go back and sort of think
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: about Alice Crowley and sort of the differences between the
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: two decks that are, you know, more commonly used, it
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: makes sense it comes from wealth and from power, and
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: so having sort of a more positive spin that might
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: make more sense.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: It does make a lot of sense, And I feel
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: like that's maybe how like Sutro would feel too. So
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: is an acorn would peck a hoarding saving possessiveness like
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: museum This seems like museum status hoarding saving possessiveness. It
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: also says material security materialism security, but also insecurity boundaries.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Boundaries is interesting. I don't know why.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: It just made me think of like a cliff like
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: doesn't really have a boundary.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, doesn't it like it does as an edge?
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah it does.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: You're right. Yeah.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: The granary tree was beautiful, a thousand and one acorns,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: all perfectly placed in perfectly sized alcoves. At sunset they
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: shone like drops of gold. At night, the woodpecker dreamed
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: of the pattern of their inlay, recalling clearly the placement
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: of everyone that he awoke feeling uneasy as he surveyed
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: his collection. His suspicions were confirmed in empty space, a
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: missing not in the lattice that wrapped the oak. This
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: would not do. The imperfection stuck in his mind like
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: a splinter of dry bark. What if winter stretched longer
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: than usual and he needed one more acorn to last
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: until the thought? One thousand and one acorns worn enough
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: to truly be secure? Now, he thought, flying off to
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: scrounch another one thousand and two sounds much better. So
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: just like more of that interesting collecting or things.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: It's almost like what I think of as being like
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: a depression era mindset of like you know, you're saving
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: rubber bands and shit because we're not going to go
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: buy them, Like I have this one that came on
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: my newspaper.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Like it makes me think of like how people like
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: Sutro who are like a millionaire, if they were still
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: like that like hoarding and saving.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean a more maybe coming from the
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: mentality of like millionaires don't become millionaires because they are
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: like wasteful, right, you know what I mean. He's an inventor.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: So mm hmm. Okay, So this is going to be
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: interesting because we haven't really used our both deck or
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: the book. I don't think we've used the book itself
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: at all, but both Deck not a lot. Okay, So
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: four of discs also power. So there's a couple of
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: different it's sort of uh, divided into kind of sub
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: sections of keywords, and then we have interpretive and some
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: other like iconography and like different links to other like
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: esoteric things. It's yeah, it's it's interesting. So the kind
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: of bullet of the card overall it just says the
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: power of stability. There's a sub section for instinct and
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: it says security, which is very reminiscent of that little
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: P and W Deck story that you've read fixation and stability.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: Stability is interesting, like before I lose the thought, just
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: the fact that in then power like reminded me of
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: like the explosion and then stability because it like ruined
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: some of the building and I'm sure, yeah, like it
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: wasn't quite.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: Stable or I mean, it's a building literally built on
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: a cliff side.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: But the big Castle one did survive an earthquake, so
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: it had to have been pretty stable.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: So that's interesting. Yeah, over time, sort of that little
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: like cliff's edge where it is, I'm sure just I mean,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: it's it's a coastal area. And this is kind of
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: a constant that we are I think aware.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: Of, is that there's like erosion over time. I wonder
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: if that's part of like what is costing so much.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that problems Yeah.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: To me, that sounds like it would have to be
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: related to some sort of structural issues. But man, I
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: mean that's speculations all at this point. But Okay, So
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: our other sort of sub sections of keywords are goal, light, shadow,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: and quality. Okay, for goal, we have completion of earthly
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: power through condensation of strength. Condensation is an interesting way
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: we're in this context. I think for light in perturbability,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: which feels like somebody who just keeps rebuilding. Oh yeah,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: you know, I remain unperturbed.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: And like the goals, Like all of them had goals
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: to rebuild, and they all did so many times.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Shadow says compulsivity, stubbornness, and stagnation and quality, the strengthening
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: and all dominating power. I think power just in the
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: context of like this deck and knowing kind of some
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: of the historical overlap of the era between like literally
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: like the creation of both and some of that, you know,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: the esotericism, and then like the historical background of this
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: story itself. With cliff Side, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: And it's like someone who ran for office, ye, the mayor. Yeah.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: In the picture, the discs are portrayed as the four
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: corner towers of a fortress bird's eye perspective. Eh. The
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: discs themselves are square and thereby embody the furnace as
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: a symbol of stability and earthly reality. That this is
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: a living system is expressed by the symbols in the
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: four towers, representing the four elements water, fire, air, and earth. Wow,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: all of that happened in this story tale. Yeah. The
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: motif shows the basic structure of the earthly city, the
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: human living space built an imitation of the divine Jerusalem.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay. Energetically, the fortress symbolizes the conde material
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: energy anchored in its form. The power of the four, however,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: does not lie in the material itself, but rather in
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: the manner in which we give it structure and meaning,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: and how we place it in the center of our considerations.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: On the negative side, it corresponds to the attempt of
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: constructing one's own reality within the effects of the eternal
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: and idolizing it. Sudra, like everything that he built was
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: like his own personal like vision of this next part
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: is very much. It speaks to sort of like the
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: da Vinci of the camera obscura, and then also as
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: an inventor. Yeah, I was gonna mention that too, when
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: you said like light and shadow and things and like
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: reminded me of the camera. Yeah. On the positive side, however,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: it is in accordance with the higher insight that such
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: models of thought in reality may be useful and helpful,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: but should never be allowed to lay claim to being
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: the absolute truth. They should instead remain helpful models. The
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: inner level of this card represents us with the wholeness
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: of creation, which is interesting in the context of like
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: baths yeah, because that goes back to sort of it
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: has kind of a symbolic linkage with like being in
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: the womb. Wow, you're so esoteric apparently, and exploring the
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: hidden sense of it is the task of humanity. Wow, okay,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: very esoteric. Like even the all of the interpretations are
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's wow. Whoever said this was more straightforward?
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: Is this book is I mean at least helping to
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: interpret but wow, to interpret the interpretations? Wow wow wow wow.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: The professional sphere the four signified stability, structure, clarity, order,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: and consistency. It is thereby an indication of phases of
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: consolidation in which what has been achieved is also secured. Additionally,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: it indicates successful periods of work where plans are realized
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: and positions are expanded expanded. They did that. I'm like,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: I found a word. I can I know something that
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: it's saying. Yeah, okay, so there. I'm not going to
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: go through all of these, but there is one that
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: I've already peeved. Okay, image the fortress though, I mean
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: a castle on a cliff side. Holy shit.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: Just like the fact that it's talking about a building
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: is like so fitting, just like any building.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: Analogy data lists. Forefather of the Greek sculptors and architects,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: built labyrinth for King Minos.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't include it, but there is a rock labyrinth
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: that lands in that you can like hike to and
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: it's like a little like like labyrinth in the rocks,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: just so cool. It's not like big bushes or anything.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: You can like see the path. But that's so interesting. Yeah,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: that's that's all.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: I have for you. I say that as if that
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: wasn't like the longest esoteric bullshit you've ever spewed. I mean,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: there's there's a lot there too unpack. It is definitely
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: far more dense. It's not nearly as accessible as a
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: lot of the interpretations that we yeah find in our
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: other guide books.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, so don't worry, we won't be like using that
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: all the time solely because I can't fucking understand the
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: path that ship.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: I do think it's interesting though, when it specifically is
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: a card that, like in our main guidebook, there's some
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: understand alternate Yeah, so I think that's interesting. There's some
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: added context or insight there. The labyrinth was so interesting
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: because I was like, oh, I want to include that,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: but it was just it's just a little kind of
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: a blur.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: I've included a lot of things, so there's a lot,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: there's a lot going on, but there's like a.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: Ton of hiking in the area. So I want to
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: like go visit and find the little labyrinth and yeah,
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: I should show you after this.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well I think the thing. Yeah, let's go.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like every time we're like, let's go eat
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: because we're stoleving. Yeah, basically, yes day.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next Tuesday's day, You'll be here. We'll
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: be here. It's a whole thing unless you're lost in
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: you know, justin Selena Benny Hailey drama on TikTok Oh.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say lost in a
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: labyrinth or lost in the labyrinth for sure, could be
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: you could be lost in a labyrinth and they're just
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: playing that on the loudspeakers, which I thought you bitny,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: now get out of my head. No never, I can't,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: I can't, I can't. No, I'm done. I'm done with
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: the brain rot for today, So goodbye bye.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: I'll tell Taylor really quick. I wrote this episode and
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: then completely forgot to look.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: Up the hauntings. This is haunts and homicide. You dumb bitch.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: So that's what I did this morning when I woke
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: up in a panic remembering that I forgot. You're like, wait,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: did we call the show Homicides and History hants? Homicides
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: in History actually would be a pretty good name. Yeah,