Latest / Drive with John Perlman / The IEC has declared a revote in Douglas, Northern Cape

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The IEC has declared a revote in Douglas, Northern Cape · Drive with John Perlman

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  Speaker 1: Drive home with John Perlman on 702. Let's walk the talk.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Eight minutes to five. Let's focus on this now. There
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  Speaker 1: were two incidents, certainly that I know about, in which
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  Speaker 1: people actually, in effect, attacked voting stations. Now, in the
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  Speaker 1: northern Cape Town of Douglas, the consequence was that I
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  Speaker 1: think around 100 ballot papers that had been completed were
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  Speaker 1: destroyed before they could actually be counted. And so what's
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  Speaker 1: going to happen in that northern Cape Town is is
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  Speaker 1: a re-vote, the details of which have just been announced
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  Speaker 1: by the IEC. There was also an incident in Kharangkua
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  Speaker 1: in Ward 32 at the Rakale Tabang Primary School, which
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  Speaker 1: could have ended in a similar way. But fortunately, the
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  Speaker 1: election material completed had been moved away and taken away.
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  Speaker 1: to the next stage in the vote counting chain. But
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  Speaker 1: the people who were working there needed a police escort
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  Speaker 1: to get away. Both extremely alarming incidents, yes, you could say,
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  Speaker 1: across so many voting stations, so many corners of the country.
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  Speaker 1: This happened remarkably few times, but I think the way
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  Speaker 1: we deal with it is going to be crucial. Let's
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  Speaker 1: find out what the IEC has in mind and welcome
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  Speaker 1: to the show. Maseho Shiburi, Deputy Chief Electoral Officer for
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  Speaker 1: Electoral Operations. Mr. Shiburi, welcome. It seems like your work
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  Speaker 1: never ends, even after the many, many weeks and months
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  Speaker 1: of delivering the local government elections. But thank you for
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  Speaker 1: making time for us. Let's focus on Douglas first. I
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  Speaker 1: understand that a number of people have appeared in the
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  Speaker 1: district court. What would they be charged with? And what's
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  Speaker 1: the maximum sentence that somebody who destroys... electoral materials could
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  Speaker 1: actually face. Good afternoon to you.
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  Speaker 2: Good afternoon, John. In terms of the electoral scheme, the
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  Speaker 2: contravention of a number of provisions in the Act, some
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  Speaker 2: have very severe sentences. They could carry a sentence, a
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  Speaker 2: custodial sentence, without an option of a fine of between
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  Speaker 2: five and ten years or one to five years. Depending
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  Speaker 2: on what these people have been charged with, If they
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  Speaker 2: are found guilty, of course, the court could meet those sentences.
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  Speaker 2: I am yet to have sight of the charge sheet
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  Speaker 2: to know what exactly the people have been charged with
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  Speaker 2: because they were arrested in the instance of the police
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  Speaker 2: even before we had registered the case.
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  Speaker 1: So when you registered a case, I mean, presumably you
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  Speaker 1: have in mind, I mean, would the IEC, if they called,
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  Speaker 1: you know, perhaps for, let's say these people are convicted
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  Speaker 1: and there's evidence led in either aggravation or mitigation of sentence,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, would you as the IEC be pushing for
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  Speaker 1: the harshest possible sentence?
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  Speaker 2: We think in this instance, the harshest possible sentence is
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  Speaker 2: warranted because it is not just ordinary persons. As we understand,
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  Speaker 2: one of the main people arrested is the leader of
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  Speaker 2: a registered party which was contesting in these elections which
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  Speaker 2: party has already won a number of seats in that municipality.
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  Speaker 2: So if a party felt aggrieved, there are processes to
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  Speaker 2: be followed for the recount or to lodge a Section
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  Speaker 2: 65 objection so that the Commission can look at their
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  Speaker 2: evidence and make the appropriate decisions. But what we take
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  Speaker 2: a very dim view on is people interfering. They're not
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  Speaker 2: just interfering with the processes of the Electoral Commission. They are,
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  Speaker 2: in fact, interfering with the political choices that 1,358 persons
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  Speaker 2: have made at that voting station.
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  Speaker 1: I'm struck not for the first time, Mr. Shiburi, that
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  Speaker 1: the IEC has referred to this in the guarded way
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  Speaker 1: that you just have. saying that this is the leader
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  Speaker 1: of a political party without naming the party. Why wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: you as the IEC, if you know, because the court
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  Speaker 1: process would confirm it, that this political party is implicated
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  Speaker 1: in what happened? Why wouldn't they be named, particularly when
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  Speaker 1: there's a revote coming? I mean, surely if they are
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  Speaker 1: charged in this way, they shouldn't be eligible to be
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  Speaker 1: part of the revote or have I missed something?
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  Speaker 2: We can confirm the name of the party because the
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  Speaker 2: persons have appeared in court. It is the Siagnouma Independent Forum.
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  Speaker 2: On our part, the Commission has also instituted proceedings out
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  Speaker 2: of the Electoral Court to ask the court to deregister
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  Speaker 2: the party. So if the party is deregistered, it means
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  Speaker 2: it ceases to exist as a party. And all the
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  Speaker 2: seats that it had won are taken away from that party.
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  Speaker 2: A new culture will be determined. And those seats will
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  Speaker 2: be distributed to other contestants in that municipality. To the
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  Speaker 2: extent that the court is yet to make a determination.
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  Speaker 2: With the re-vote, we'll include that party unless the court
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  Speaker 2: makes a decision before then. We will include the party
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  Speaker 2: so that we do not appear to have prejudged the matter.
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  Speaker 2: But in our papers, we make a point that even
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  Speaker 2: in the re-vote, if the party were to get seats
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  Speaker 2: and the court is minded to deregister that party, it
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  Speaker 2: should exclude its vote from the count. Right.
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  Speaker 1: I want to turn briefly, if we can, Mr. Shiburi,
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  Speaker 1: to the incident at the Rakale Tabang Primary. This is
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  Speaker 1: Ward 32 in Kharangkua. Won by Action SA with 36%,
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  Speaker 1: the ANC 24%, a massive decline from the 54.5 they
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  Speaker 1: got in 2021. That's just setting the scene. The EFF
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  Speaker 1: coming in third, but also with a diminished number of
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  Speaker 1: votes lost. Is this offense any less serious because the
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  Speaker 1: people actually failed in their bid to potentially destroy election material?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a bit akin to the difference between
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  Speaker 1: murder and attempted murder. And I'm wondering if there is
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  Speaker 1: vigorous and robust pursuit of the people involved in this
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  Speaker 1: and if you have any idea as to exactly who
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  Speaker 1: was involved.
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  Speaker 2: In this specific one in Harangua, the facts are still
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  Speaker 2: fuzzy for us. Yes. Because we do not know whether
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  Speaker 2: there was any organized thing. But it doesn't make it
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  Speaker 2: less of a crime because we do not know. It
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  Speaker 2: doesn't have to be perpetrated by a supporter or member
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  Speaker 2: of a political party. It is a crime in its
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  Speaker 2: own right. So when we look at it, we don't
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  Speaker 2: look at the identity or trying to see if there's
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  Speaker 2: a party. We just say this is the person that
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  Speaker 2: we could identify who perpetrated this thing. To the extent
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  Speaker 2: that a link can be made or that it was
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  Speaker 2: organized by a political party, we could then also then
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  Speaker 2: amend our pleadings to include the political party. But for now,
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  Speaker 2: we are looking at those matters to find the identity
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  Speaker 2: of those persons so that we can lay the appropriate
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  Speaker 2: criminal charges with the South African Police Services, but also
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  Speaker 2: pursue other avenues of recourse through the Electoral Court.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Maseho Shiburi, Deputy Chief Electoral Officer for
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  Speaker 1: Electoral Operations, 702 Drive.