Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Architects | Carole Wedge | S8 E12

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Future of Architects | Carole Wedge | S8 E12 · FUTURE OF XYZ

• 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:20:16 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Future of XYZ. I'm starting or maybe continuing a trend about the built environment, this time with the most esteemed guests. Carole Wedge. Thank you so much for joining us on Future of XYZ today. 00:00:20:18 - 00:00:23:20 Speaker 2 Oh my pleasure. Excited to talk to you. 00:00:23:22 - 00:00:45:04 Speaker 1 well, this is a really exciting conversation about the future of architects. there's lots of subject matter as we can do as you yourself are, a fellow of the AIA, and we'll talk about what that means. noma leed AP, all of these kinds of letters that come after a lot of architects names, or especially the esteemed ones. 00:00:45:06 - 00:00:57:17 Speaker 1 but you joined in December of last year so 2025 as the CEO and of executive vice president of the American Institute of Architects, known as AIA. So that's a pretty huge role. congratulations first of all. 00:00:57:17 - 00:00:59:03 Speaker 2 Thank you so much. 00:00:59:05 - 00:01:29:05 Speaker 1 it's really cool. you were formerly the CEO of Shepley Bullfinch, which is, one of the largest architecture and interior architecture firms in the U.S. founded in 1874, which is pretty crazy, very crazy. And you served 17 years as the CEO there. you besides sitting on the board of the National Building Museum, soon to be of the Ace Mentorship Board, as well as, Northeast Arc and Wendover Construction. 00:01:29:05 - 00:01:54:05 Speaker 1 You formerly sat on the boards, many places, including the Boston Society of Architects, Architecture Boston, the Architects Foundation, Boston Architectural College, Wentworth Institute of Tech, in Boston as well. and you have your own two degrees, one, in environmental design from the University of Colorado and one in a as a Bachelor of Architecture, actually, from the Boston Architectural College back in Boston. 00:01:54:06 - 00:02:15:23 Speaker 1 So, you have a long standing history with architecture, but also sustainability. So we're going to dive into all of that. but I want to start, Carole, as we start every one of these XYZ conversations with defining the topic at hand. Right. A topic in this case is architects. So in the context of today's conversation, how do we define architects? 00:02:16:00 - 00:02:40:12 Speaker 2 Well, I think the most simplistic way, and I love how the word shows up in all sorts of places. But you know, someone who has an architectural degree and an architectural license. So that is evolving and changing. And I could talk a little bit about that. But technically, legally, you know, you call yourself an architect when you're a registered architect, you go through a process of taking those exams, and we all have our story about what that means. 00:02:40:14 - 00:02:50:01 Speaker 2 and whoever said it was in our study group and coached us through. I always thought there should have been an answer on the question. Call your structural engineer. Call your consultant? 00:02:50:05 - 00:02:52:12 Speaker 3 Yeah. So. 00:02:52:14 - 00:03:21:22 Speaker 2 I feel like I feel like architects are facilitators of very diverse conversations, integrating lots of different disciplines, but also deeply listening to communities. And so, you know, I think the word design can mean so many different things to people. but for architects, it really starts with planning and process and sort of understanding what, what the questions are that the community or owner or client is asking themselves about what they think they need. 00:03:21:24 - 00:03:52:06 Speaker 1 It's interesting. We're going to get into that because actually, as of last December, as I mentioned, you've been in charge of AIA, which is the largest design organization in the world coming from iF Design, who presents the Future of XYZ, as well as obviously for whom I work, that's saying a lot. Headquartered in Washington, DC with around 150 employees, I believe that I represent over 101,000 members globally, 20,000 firms, and has over 200 chapters. 00:03:52:08 - 00:04:11:09 Speaker 1 That's quite, an organization. I mean, I guess just coming to it that there are a few questions. You mentioned what an architect is. A lot of times, as we said with you, you have FAIA after your name, for instance. there are variations on this AIA, but what does what do those letters actually mean? 00:04:11:11 - 00:04:33:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. I think it's really interesting. So you're a fellow not dissimilar from other disciplines that, you know, when you've developed either a body of work or a body of influence or impacted your profession. interestingly, there's kind of five different lanes for how you can contribute, you know, design, managing the profession, teaching, contributing to the public. as an architect. 00:04:33:20 - 00:04:58:07 Speaker 2 So there's many different ways to acknowledge accomplishment. interestingly, once you become a fellow, it's really a call to pay it forward, and action and the responsibility to mentor the future. And so, as much as it can be, you know, a lovely recognition of someone's career, you know, your career goes by fast when you name them like, who snuck a couple decades in there, you know, it seems much faster. 00:04:58:09 - 00:05:26:13 Speaker 2 but really the fellows are a group that focus on mentorship, fundraising for scholarships, supporting the next generation. So they have a relationship with the Young Architects Forum, and they're developing more relationships with other groups, really just to show what the pathway is. And I think the world is so diverse and complex and, and the pace of change is so rapid that they're participating more deeply in the profession is really needed. 00:05:26:15 - 00:05:55:00 Speaker 2 I feel like most people who are working in leading firms, you know, sort of working on projects, everyone feels, you know, crazy busy. and the deadline, if the deadline can happen sooner, everyone wants the world to spin faster, so I think there's a really important role for fellows as they've, you know, they've reached a level in their career where they kind of understand the, the landscape and can really also be a great guide, mentor, coach to other people. 00:05:55:02 - 00:06:23:06 Speaker 1 it's it's so interesting because that licensing that accreditation that AI gives, it also as an organization outlines what I would think of kind of as a lay person as like the five standard phases of architecture, which are schematic design, design development, construction documents, bidding and then construction administration. It seems like a lot and a lot of technical knowledge is needed. 00:06:23:06 - 00:06:27:22 Speaker 1 Is every licensed architect vetted and versed in all five of these? 00:06:27:24 - 00:06:54:01 Speaker 2 So every licensed architect and they’re licensed through their state. So interestingly, just to keep it super complicated, every different state and territory has their own licensing process, but almost all of them collaborate with NCAR, the national organization that accredits degrees. that, licensing process. And then there's a separate group which accredits the degree programs. 00:06:54:03 - 00:07:14:23 Speaker 2 So there's a sort of layering of what's the path? but the license does cover all of those topics. And I think the thing, you know, once you live a project from beginning to end are always really lived as much as we could by the idea that the people that started the project should be in construction so that the ideas are really implemented. 00:07:14:23 - 00:07:41:24 Speaker 2 You know, we end up making things with a contractor so we don't build them, but we frame, you know, sort of the direction and ideation for a project. so do you have to be conversant in all of those topics to get licensed and so. That’s amazing. Yeah. And I think sometimes, you know, it's not dissimilar from other accreditations in medicine, nursing, law, you know, education, like there are so many different licensing processes. 00:07:42:01 - 00:08:05:03 Speaker 2 But I also feel like it's kind of the beginning. So just because you can pass the exam doesn't mean you've really seen how it happens. Right? Or you're you're not really in the room where it happens. Yeah. What's it like to take a client through this process? And I think that's so interesting that the exam doesn't really test your ability to engage a community or a client in sort of moving their idea along. 00:08:05:05 - 00:08:08:23 Speaker 2 I think that's the most fascinating and most complicated part of architecture. 00:08:09:00 - 00:08:10:08 Speaker 1 Always the humans. 00:08:10:10 - 00:08:32:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. And so I think that comes from lived experience and, you know, sort of observation of how other people do it. Interestingly, in my career, early phases like conceptual design or early planning or campus planning really have become more important so that there's a kind of thoughtful construct of the big picture of what clients are trying to do. 00:08:33:00 - 00:08:55:08 Speaker 2 And I think the projects that, don't spend some upfront time really framing what's going to what needs to happen and testing the concepts sometimes jump into soon to schematic design. And all of a sudden it takes a little time to kind of get the client to think with you. and so, you know, I we had an expression in our firm. 00:08:55:08 - 00:08:59:12 Speaker 2 I didn't start it, but people used to say, you have to go slow to go fast. 00:08:59:14 - 00:09:26:16 Speaker 1 It's very funny because I had an interview with, a Turkish, architect two episodes ago, actually, on the future of spatial strategy. and his firm does a lot of work in the Middle East on master projects. And this was their attitude, like the spatial strategy is, in fact, exactly that, like starting point, like how do you build for the future, longevity, cultural awareness, you know, with, with all these things in mind? 00:09:26:18 - 00:09:51:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. And a big theme. And just to be clear, I has many members that aren't registered architects. So we have, you know, recent graduates, a student can join a for free for two years right after they graduate from school. There's an AIA student chapter. You can be involved when you're in whatever college or university program you're in. but there's associates and affiliates and, you know, so the the number of members is also diverse. 00:09:51:24 - 00:10:25:07 Speaker 2 I think it's about 60% registered architects, but 40% people on the path of their career, people early in their career, people working in affiliated organizations. so it's a kind of interesting, diverse place. And, you know, one of the things we're really trying to do is build a broader coalition. There's so many different organizations involved in the design and built environment, building those relationships just for awareness so that we're, you know, a collaborative across this, the sort of big ecosystem we all participate in. 00:10:25:13 - 00:10:57:06 Speaker 1 Well, I mean, that ecosystem is very interesting because it is quite broad. and AIA’s mission specifically is to empower and inspire architects to improve society and transform the world. No, no small feat or anything. When you accepted the unanimous board decision I have for you to become the next CEO. You said at that time I'm deeply honored to have the opportunity to lead AIA, etc., and you said I'm dedicated to serving our members by growing our community, championing, championing. 00:10:57:12 - 00:11:14:17 Speaker 1 I never can say that word. Design excellence, driving positive change and expanding awareness of the critical importance of our profession and the role architects play in our communities. What is the role of architects in the world and that critical importance of the profession? 00:11:14:19 - 00:11:37:03 Speaker 2 Well, I think it starts with planning and design, you know, in sort of understanding what makes great communities. And there's so many examples. Yesterday I was in a meeting everyone was talking about. It's a system of systems so that every built thing, whether, it's a very small scale to a very large scale, is in a system of a community and society and infrastructure. 00:11:37:05 - 00:12:00:16 Speaker 2 And so that's become ever more obvious and important as we think about resiliency and regenerative design and understanding that any new project can have a ripple effect through a community. So I think the the critical importance is that architects and many other, you know, related professions like planners and landscape architects are looking at a project at a different scale. 00:12:00:18 - 00:12:21:07 Speaker 2 How does it how does it join this system? But how does it also support the environment and the community and the people that live there? and I think, you know, more than ever, the voices of the community are being, I think, listened to in a, in a deeper way. You know, when I first started my career, things are a little bit more about esthetics. 00:12:21:09 - 00:12:38:11 Speaker 2 You know, they're a little bit more about like, oh, of course we meant the program. But, you know, a little more time on what we thought of the esthetics. And I think where I came to architecture was around climate and environmental design was what woke me up. You know, originally I thought I wanted to be a biologist. 00:12:38:13 - 00:12:42:08 Speaker 1 Got it. That's where the environmental design part came in. Yeah. 00:12:42:08 - 00:13:07:18 Speaker 2 So I drifted over in environmental design, really integrated so many of the things I was drawn to. And we were talking about climate then. And, you know, I was a teenager during the first Earth Day. you know, just I grew up in new Jersey where there's a lot of, like, things that didn't really respect the climate and didn't expect respect the environment and had to be kind of healed over the course of my adult life. 00:13:07:20 - 00:13:09:05 Speaker 1 Meadow Lands as an example. 00:13:09:07 - 00:13:33:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I look at how what a big impact architects have had in the last 20 years, whether it's around architecture, 2030 or the Green Building Council. And, you know, that's what the Leed certification is. and leaving in the environment and energy design and realizing, you know, the charge the big bold audacious goal was could buildings be net zero? 00:13:34:00 - 00:14:01:16 Speaker 2 maybe net positive. Could they contribute back to a community? And actually buildings are doing that now. And so that's what's kind of incredible. We're moving on, I think to be more responsive to water and the weather and you know, sort of what a big impact that can have on our, built environment. But I think I'm really proud of the profession and what it's accomplished, and also the collaborations with engineers and environmental designers. 00:14:01:16 - 00:14:13:24 Speaker 2 And, you know, contractors. But we really have moved the needle, in such a significant way. And, and now I think we look at our climate and realize we kind of move it again. Yeah. 00:14:14:01 - 00:14:34:03 Speaker 1 Well, I, I, I'm not going to linger because there's so many different threads I could pull on, but I will just give a shout out to AIA’s a global campus for architecture and design, which has recently reopened in Washington, DC and is open to the public. but it's one of the nation's first ever net zero retrofit projects. 00:14:34:05 - 00:14:41:07 Speaker 1 so obviously there's a walking. Walking the talk is an important model. 00:14:41:09 - 00:15:09:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. It'll be, it's almost finished, but we're targeting Leed platinum and, well, gold. and really showing that you can reinvent buildings. it's an invitation for everyone if you're in DC for for a pleasure or for work, come see us. There's a cafe, there's an exhibition space, there's a design shop that sells cool swag and great books on design and toys and, really fun, design centric objects. 00:15:09:06 - 00:15:32:15 Speaker 2 but it is a showcase. But really, the mission is to welcome the public. And, you know, I think like most professions, sometimes architects talk to each other too much. We stay in our bubble because it's like so comfortable. I think, and we have so much in common. But what we're realizing is we need to be engaging that much broader public community more and getting people excited about design. 00:15:32:17 - 00:15:54:09 Speaker 1 I mean, I think here, here we we share that mission in common. And I'm looking forward very much for I have to to to come down and visit, you just mentioned something and it's a little bit of a detour and I'm going to put you on the spot a tiny bit, but, you know, there's something very unique about the profession of architecture. 00:15:54:11 - 00:16:13:02 Speaker 1 and there's lots of things that are very unique about it. But I also think that there's something I hate to say it, but something kind of unique about architects. having many, many in my life, is do you think as an architect and someone who represents architects? That's true. And and what is that? 00:16:13:04 - 00:16:25:00 Speaker 2 I think there's a kind of unique combination that, you know, when you read our mission statement, I'm like, well, aim high, you know, don't, like, just transform the world, you know, and then complain about how much you get paid. 00:16:25:02 - 00:16:26:14 Speaker 3 You know? 00:16:26:16 - 00:16:55:11 Speaker 2 So if anything, I think there is something there's something unique about people that want to have an impact on their community. And there's so many origin stories for architects that talk about growing up in a city where the big main department store was shuttered and they thought, it's such a beautiful building, why did that happen? Or grew up in an area where, they felt like you know, their school was kind of sad and, you know, didn't really inspire learning. 00:16:55:11 - 00:17:19:03 Speaker 2 And so they wanted to have an impact on that. so I feel like those stories are so personal about someone. Usually there's like kind of somewhere in their life that they realize they could make a difference by contributing to the built environment and having a point of view about it and, integrating it in better ways. Often it comes from seeing something that they thought wasn't quite right, you know? 00:17:19:03 - 00:17:19:14 Speaker 3 Totally. 00:17:19:15 - 00:17:37:02 Speaker 2 Why why are they tearing down that beautiful building? Or, you know, why is this really beautiful building shuttered? And so I think it also comes from people who liked to make things. And I think, you know, so many I heard a great story of don't ask children what they want to be. Ask them what they like to do. 00:17:37:04 - 00:17:56:06 Speaker 2 If you have all the free time in the world, where are you going to do with it? and it's often architects that are liked to make forts or paint or draw Lego. Yeah, Lego or even now, you know, Minecraft or design, but had an idea about design, had an idea about creativity and the impact it could have. 00:17:56:06 - 00:18:06:12 Speaker 2 So yeah, I do think there's some, you know, I have some family members that will ask me about architecture. And I was like, what do you think of this building? And they're like, I don't know, why would I have an opinion about it? I was like what? 00:18:07:10 - 00:18:31:08 Speaker 1 I totally get that one. I totally get that one. It's interesting because obviously the skills that an architect needs today are probably quite different than what they needed, 169 years ago when the I was first started in New York City, in 1857. and it's continuing to evolve and change. obviously, that's a very big question. 00:18:31:08 - 00:18:46:00 Speaker 1 That could be its own episode. But in short, what do you think are like the major changes over the last, you know, since since kind of like the, the beginning. And where is it heading right now? skill sets. 00:18:46:00 - 00:19:15:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. And it's interesting like to ask me that because I grew up in one of the older firms in the country, and there are a couple firms in the Chicago area that were like, no, we're oldest or Detroit. I'm like, okay, you can be oldest, but we just want to tap into the, ingenuity and innovation of H.H. Richardson, who was really interested in building form and materials and it being different and sort of not necessarily having to look like everything else around it, but to start to explore contrast. 00:19:15:24 - 00:19:44:19 Speaker 2 And I think that's such an interesting conversation. but I think for a long time architecture was more about beauty and, you know, sort of used on much larger scale projects. you know, a lot of the building stock was much more pragmatic, and done, you know, sort of in a simpler way. I think when Shepley Bullfinch was first founded, architecture was for a much more elite group of, you know, people or institutions. 00:19:44:21 - 00:20:10:06 Speaker 2 And I think today it's much more inclusive and much more interested in how whole communities are served. And, you know, what is what is housing mean? I went to a great presentation. and I see Michael Green, who talked about AI and home. And instead of creating housing, why don't we create homes for people and then I hope I get this right in terms of him listening to this. 00:20:10:08 - 00:20:24:09 Speaker 2 And how do we use AI to show people the powerful impact architecture can have, and what are the outcomes? And we've never had the time or resources to do that, but could we then create this cool, cool integration of those things? 00:20:24:11 - 00:20:25:18 Speaker 1 interesting. 00:20:25:20 - 00:20:59:11 Speaker 2 So I think architects today and I would say, you know, generations younger than myself, there's a social justice awareness that we're a global, we're global, we're all living on this one planet. There's one very unique planet. And what happens in one environment trickles across to another environment, and that we're all kind of bound together. So I think there's much more interested in the social justice aspects of who decides, you know, who decides what happens to city on land, who decides what planning priorities there are? 00:20:59:13 - 00:21:12:02 Speaker 2 you know, I think we studied urban renewal a little bit when I was in school, but I think kind of the social construct of architecture is much more front green today and for generations going forward. 00:21:12:04 - 00:21:35:07 Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. Your work has always bridged that architectural practice of innovation. And I would say with education, mentorship and that public impact. how do you think that that especially like what are the biggest risks and opportunities for the profession right now, given everything that's changing? And you mentioned AI as an opportunity, but obviously it's also a risk. 00:21:35:09 - 00:21:48:18 Speaker 1 technology in general. I mean, I remember when, when my, when my ex had to learn Revit, you know, from CAD and that was already something different than what the generation before had done. So what are we seeing as the biggest risks and opportunities for the profession right now? 00:21:48:20 - 00:22:09:22 Speaker 2 I think the I think the biggest risk is the speed of adaptation and that, you know, there's this expectation that everything can happen immediately. and that, you know, when you talk about AI, AI is changing every day, even for the people who are closest to it, who created it. So I think this is a phenomena we don't understand yet. 00:22:09:24 - 00:22:28:15 Speaker 2 it was an interesting conversation with some investment folks, and we said, when was there something this disruptive that's happened in our history? Because clearly none of us live these chapters over and over again. It didn't happen to us. You have to be a good historian. And they said, when railroads crossed America like that was a long time ago. 00:22:28:17 - 00:22:54:20 Speaker 2 So I was waiting for industrial revolution or, you know, sort of the iPhone or the personal computer. so this is a transformative time that none of us have lived through something of that scale before. so I think it's trying to be both smart and inquisitive and adventurous all at the same time. and I was, you know, we have, AI toolkit that's coming out and trying to provide people guidance. 00:22:54:22 - 00:23:21:12 Speaker 2 At the same time, architects make things, and they're incredibly tedious and incredibly complex. And most architects would say they don't feel like they're compensated with the degree of commitment and follow through and risk that they take on. so I'm really interested in how do you answer those two poles, right. How do you use these new tools to do some of the things faster and more effective and perhaps more efficiently? 00:23:21:18 - 00:23:45:10 Speaker 2 And does that give you time to have a bigger influence or to work on more projects at the same time? But ultimately, I think we make things. And so, you know, the architects and contractors will find interesting ways to use technology. But every article I read that talks about the human judgment, I think that's the place of how do we how do we continue to evolve? 00:23:45:10 - 00:23:51:15 Speaker 2 What is what is the judgment around these technologies and, you know, when do you intervene? 00:23:51:17 - 00:24:13:03 Speaker 1 It's so interesting because every conversation nowadays on XYZ talks to the technology. And I had an interview about a year ago with, the head of applied R&D at Foster and Partners, which was quite, remarkable for anyone who's not in the architecture space. Norman Foster's, won the second ever lifetime achievement award from iF last year. 00:24:13:05 - 00:24:36:03 Speaker 1 And, Martha Tsigkari, is his applied head of R&D and using technology, using, machine learning, using all the tools available in real time to really, like, kind of like get, as you said, go faster, get better, and really elevate the work. So it was pretty interesting. The role of education though is is a huge one. 00:24:36:03 - 00:25:03:00 Speaker 1 It's obviously part of the mission of AIA in the continuing education. I've been blown away. We talked about the money that architects make or don't make, but the education as well as the certification, licensing, etc. is quite rigorous. recently in the U.S, which is different, perhaps in the rest of the world, the US Department of Education's Rise role, has basically reimagined and, improved student education. 00:25:03:00 - 00:25:30:05 Speaker 1 I put air quotes around it from my own perspective. It's not for yours. but it's opt in to exclude certain professional programs, nursing being one of them and architecture being one of them. These are degrees that now are being classified as graduate versus professional degree programs. can you very briefly summarize what the immediate result is, as well as what if not reversed, you think the mid to long term effects on the profession? 00:25:31:03 - 00:25:53:08 Speaker 2 Well, I think there's the first step is the reason for that language was much more about a budget cut in the BBB bill. It was much more of a directive to reduce the budget for student loans. So whether you agree with that or not, that's where it came from. people weren't consulted in that definition or why. 00:25:53:10 - 00:26:18:20 Speaker 2 and so the AIA joined, group, that filed some petitions against that and also are working really closely with three representatives that have proposed bills to clarify that nurses are professionals and architects are professionals. And the real crux of it is the difference between these, you know, kind of rather technical and bureaucratic definitions is how much you can borrow and student loans. 00:26:18:22 - 00:26:34:15 Speaker 2 It's not about what you do in the world. It's not about that. You don't need to be registered as a licensed architect anymore. It's not about the the rules in every jurisdiction across the country and around the world. It's about how much student loan money you can borrow. And so I think the other factor is it limits access. 00:26:34:17 - 00:26:51:09 Speaker 2 And so there's some interesting movement around, around in calm and the registration boards and thinking about is an accredited degree required? Should we evolve back to what we used to be, which was you could intern through into and take the licensing exam? 00:26:51:09 - 00:26:52:07 Speaker 1 Interesting. 00:26:52:10 - 00:27:25:09 Speaker 2 When I started yeah. When I for in New York has had that new York state has had that forever and still does that you can intern it's a longer path. You have to intern for a registered architect for a certain number of years. I think it's usually I wouldn't even say the number. It's long. But when I first, started working at Shepley Bullfinch, there were a number of people who had like, fought in World War Two and had been, you know, on the GI Bill, and they had worked for the Army Corps of Engineers, and they entered into architecture and they became licensed architects. 00:27:25:15 - 00:27:32:17 Speaker 2 They often did some like freelance house design on the weekends. They didn't become the owners of the firm necessarily. 00:27:32:19 - 00:27:33:21 Speaker 1 they had long stable. 00:27:33:21 - 00:27:34:14 Speaker 2 They had long. 00:27:34:15 - 00:27:36:06 Speaker 1 Standing, productive careers. 00:27:36:06 - 00:27:47:19 Speaker 2 They taught young people like me how to put a building together. And then they would take us in the field and explain why this mortar mix and that mortar mix were different. And the geeky, nerdy stuff, like, it's really it's so. 00:27:47:19 - 00:28:09:19 Speaker 1 Cool, actually, when you think about mentorship in that next generation of education, because it's also about equity and inclusion, because if you have different pathways, regardless of the cost and long education, then most architects have masters as well, and various other things like there is a there is a cost to this, especially in the US. Again, outside the US things are a little different, but in the U.S.. 00:28:09:21 - 00:28:36:07 Speaker 2 Only and we joined, a consortium with the nurses and other professionals who were basically excluded through this judgment. And so there is movement and work on that. And our government affairs team continues to work on it. you know, is point of view is the architecture degree is a professional degree. And it leads to a licensing process and a requirement that you're a licensed architect, to implement certain projects. 00:28:36:07 - 00:29:05:02 Speaker 2 So I think, you know, sort of it's what the interesting thing is, it woke the architects up to actually start talking about their value. You know, it's sort of them's fighting words like, how dare you say we're not professionals. So it woke people up to, you know, sort of some of the noise of what's going on and arbitrary changes, but also it's critically important for architects to articulate their value and show their value and explain that to people. 00:29:05:04 - 00:29:26:01 Speaker 2 and then the other piece I experience is architects have some of the most fulfilling careers and are so proud of the work they did, whether it's, you know, a home or a school or, you know, a pretty big building in a city, the level of fulfillment is huge. And I don't think we talk about that. I don't think we talk about what it feels like to have that kind of impact. 00:29:26:01 - 00:29:34:14 Speaker 2 And, you know, for me, I would go by a project I worked on, on the way home and my children would be like, why are we going the long way? It's like, oh, I just like to see. 00:29:34:15 - 00:29:35:02 Speaker 1 I want to see it. 00:29:35:02 - 00:29:37:03 Speaker 3 00:29:37:05 - 00:29:48:01 Speaker 2 I want to see it with the lights on at night. Nobody knows that I was involved in the design, but just how fulfilling it is. An exciting it is to see a community use a building that you had something to do with. 00:29:48:03 - 00:30:12:07 Speaker 1 I love that. And I had a couple questions. So we're we're we're at time, but we're going to do a quick the quick round, as I like to say. Yeah. So like yeah. Exactly. Lightning round. and some of these are a little lighter than the others. some are not. But I was going to ask you actually, what is the favorite project you ever worked on, either yourself or someone else's. 00:30:12:09 - 00:30:20:09 Speaker 2 My favorite project that I worked on was with a firm in Texas, like Play-Doh architects, and we worked on the Austin Public Library. 00:30:20:11 - 00:30:21:19 Speaker 1 And it's amazing building. 00:30:21:23 - 00:30:48:01 Speaker 2 The reason I loved it was the whole team really started to explore the ideas. What is a library for in a city like Austin? And it started to embrace, you know, South by Southwest and music and cooking and food. And then also very honestly talked about the homeless population and where there should be shade around the building and that it would be okay for the homeless people or unhoused people to be lingering by the building. 00:30:48:01 - 00:31:10:11 Speaker 2 And so the transformative effect from the before building that was close to the capital downtown, to the one that's on, Cesar Chavez and has a view, of Lady Berg Lake and has a roof terrace that they rent out for weddings. Like, it's just such a dynamic building. And every time I go there, I'm kind of surprised at how well used it is. 00:31:10:13 - 00:31:11:03 Speaker 2 and so. 00:31:11:05 - 00:31:18:05 Speaker 1 NASA activated it, two years ago, South by Southwest. So, it's it's extremely well used. It's a beautiful space. Yeah. 00:31:18:05 - 00:31:32:18 Speaker 2 And it was also a cool collaboration with a very local, viewpoint of materials and, you know, sort of light and climate and, working together was really, really fun. So that's one of my favorite experiences. 00:31:32:20 - 00:31:53:14 Speaker 1 It's cool. I love that, until 2023, you spent, as we talked about 17 years as the CEO of Shepley Bulfinch driving expansion. through the planning, through the architecture, through the interior design, you know, aspects of the of the firm. What were some of the toughest challenges for architects in those years? 00:31:53:16 - 00:32:23:15 Speaker 2 TSo for me, the simplest answer is any economic downturn that affects your work is the hardest thing. you know, solving complex structural challenges or complex engineering challenges, like, that's just what we do, right? You get the right people together and you solve the problem. but when you know, 2008 and nine, 2008, we had it was my fourth or fifth year as, president, CEO, we had one of our best years ever financially. 00:32:23:15 - 00:32:44:09 Speaker 2 We had won a lot of great work. We were felt like, wow, we're we're really cutting it up. Really a great job. And we went to our principals retreat in January. And our CFO said to me, I don't know what the agenda is, but 60% of our work just went on hold in the last week because of that downturn of the, mortgage crisis and the implosion. 00:32:44:11 - 00:33:12:24 Speaker 2 And like, we had to pivot really quickly. And so I think the hardest thing about architecture is the vulnerability to economic cycles and the fact that and certainly Shepley then, but hopefully we're better now or they're better now. my former colleagues is we weren't diverse enough. We're basically in health care, in higher education, and almost all institutional work came to a grinding halt, you know, so we weren't working in other regions, we weren't working in other disciplines. 00:33:13:01 - 00:33:35:18 Speaker 2 And that really led to our acquiring offices in Phenix and Houston and North Carolina and getting into housing and planning. And so realizing a diversified portfolio really does help you navigate the ups and downs. Absolutely. and I've talked about it before, but the other thing we did was lean into our client relationships and say, okay, the big projects gone. 00:33:35:18 - 00:33:46:12 Speaker 2 What small things could we help you with? Could just because, you know, we're going to have to survive. And I remember going to a pretty big institutional client and the CEO said, are you guys okay? 00:33:46:14 - 00:33:47:04 Speaker 3 Yeah. 00:33:47:06 - 00:33:49:16 Speaker 2 Well, we would be if you gave us a lot of little projects. 00:33:49:16 - 00:34:14:23 Speaker 1 Right? Right. And that's so interesting because you talk about like, first of all, keeping busy. That's always I mean, any business has that challenge in a downturn. Right. but I think there are two things that this brings up, and they're two very different questions. So I'll think about how I want to ask them. The first, I guess, is leading a professional organization, as you are now at AIA is this is a huge responsibility. 00:34:14:23 - 00:34:42:02 Speaker 1 And in many ways, especially, as you said in these transformative times, I would guess that there are a lot of similarities with other trade organizations, if you will, that there is this challenge, at the moment, what how are you kind of feeling about that position? and and is there collaboration, in other organizations at this particular moment, given exactly what you just said? 00:34:42:02 - 00:34:46:15 Speaker 1 Like, we have to keep working. We have to keep going. We have to keep supporting and evolving. 00:34:46:16 - 00:35:17:14 Speaker 2 Yeah. Interestingly, earlier today, I was on a call with what, the a Kansas City, leadership calls the D7, and it's seven different design disciplines that are getting together in August to talk about all these kind of key issues from their point of view or our points of view, knowing that we're all interrelated. and it was everything from like one of the things I learned is, do you realize that 80% of graphic designers are freelance, basically running their own business? 00:35:17:16 - 00:35:51:04 Speaker 2 So for me, that's like an interesting piece. to be in my role right now is really about supporting the vision of the board in the strategic direction, which is really practice, advocacy, climate and equity, and really getting into what implementation looks like and measuring success. But I think there's so much to learn from other associations. And that's really my role, is to connect the dots with other leaders in related fields, but also that are trying to make a difference and understand what that what that blend is. 00:35:51:04 - 00:35:55:12 Speaker 2 Washington DC is association land. 00:35:55:14 - 00:35:56:18 Speaker 3 And so know. 00:35:56:20 - 00:36:19:23 Speaker 2 There are some CEO roundtables and there's a lot of great education. and so I feel like what I've learned in the first six months or so is to really don't assume we understand what our members need, don't assume we know what the right implementation of our strategy is. Do more deep thinking and exploring and working and engagement to really understand what's going to make a difference. 00:36:20:03 - 00:36:44:17 Speaker 1 I love that I it's always it's it's that's good leadership. It's the act of listening as well. Yeah. Yeah. okay. Second to last question, and it's the question I wanted to ask before you talked about diversifying, you know, especially a downturn, but just in general. And, and we're not even talking about diversifying the workforce, which is, of course, in the profession, which of course, you've talked about, as being super important, but diversifying the projects. 00:36:44:22 - 00:37:10:11 Speaker 1 I mean, you talked about being health care and, and higher ed. but you've also worked on science and tech and housing and urban development and then as many of my prior guests and past guests, you know, and future guests or upcoming guests, even, you know, there's entertainment and sports arenas and hospitality and master planning and outdoor parks and obviously residential and malls. 00:37:10:11 - 00:37:39:16 Speaker 1 And I mean, everything in the built environment is touched in the world. We focus a lot on the U.S. because of you being American Institute of Architects, even with the global chapters. But each of those is its own kind of unique opportunity experience. etc.. What do you think are some of the biggest differences? Not just the similarities, but what are the biggest differences that architects actually face and when, when working in these varied built environments? 00:37:39:18 - 00:38:04:00 Speaker 2 I think the first thing that comes to mind is really understanding the business model of your client and not assuming, you know why they're doing this building. and so I that's why I think that those early conceptual phases are so much more critical, because not every business, even in the same sector, has the same strategy or the same commitment to to the project that they're doing. 00:38:04:02 - 00:38:30:14 Speaker 2 you know, people talk a lot about private equity. I have very little experience with it. But the little experience I do have is they want to move fast and building things is slow. Yes. And so it's like sometimes like just even understanding people's expectations on the pace of how fast something can happen. you know, some cities it takes a long time to get a project, permit it if you have to go through a zoning change or, you know, sort of zoning review. 00:38:30:14 - 00:38:50:06 Speaker 2 So I think trying to really understand what your client's business is and be the facilitator and bridge to help explain it to them. Don't, don't. And what I learned the hard way, I think, was don't assume they understand what you're talking about, you know, get to know these clients well enough that they'll be vulnerable with you and say, you know, I don't really understand that drawing. 00:38:50:06 - 00:38:51:21 Speaker 2 You keep showing me. 00:38:51:23 - 00:38:52:20 Speaker 3 00:38:52:22 - 00:39:26:04 Speaker 2 So what what are we trying to accomplish here? and then I think, you know, the appreciating that architects and planners and landscape architects and designers do kind of have a responsibility to society, but not every individual building owner is going to think about that holistically. But I do think that architects and, particularly planners and landscape designers really think of it in a much more holistic system of systems, way. 00:39:26:06 - 00:39:40:04 Speaker 2 and so I think explaining that to a client so that they can be kind of proud of it. I mean, I think we work for a lot of independent institutions that really did things that gave back to the whole community. Sometimes they forgot to tell the community that they did that for them, you know? 00:39:40:05 - 00:39:42:01 Speaker 1 Yes. Yes, I got that. 00:39:42:02 - 00:40:00:24 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. So those are the the kind of couple things that come to mind, but also for us, do work that you really, genuinely care about, you know, and so if you're in a firm that's doing like some of the people at Shepley if they were health care architects and they had to work on something that wasn't health care, they were like, oh, I'm so sad. 00:40:00:24 - 00:40:21:08 Speaker 2 I'm not working on my favorite kind of building, you know, because like, some people fall in love with the building type. Yeah. and it goes, you know, it goes both ways, or people fall in love with doing housing and don't necessarily want to do a lab building. So, you know, I think it's it's important to realize you learn a lot from diversity and, you know, working on all different kinds of things. 00:40:21:10 - 00:40:34:06 Speaker 2 so we're not all the same in what revs our motor and gets us excited. And I think being honest with yourself about that, but also being open to learning from something really interesting could come out of it, you know, and so. 00:40:34:08 - 00:40:40:12 Speaker 1 Applicable across like the cross-disciplinary nature of the the D7, as you guys are calling yourselves. It's good. 00:40:40:14 - 00:40:41:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. 00:40:41:15 - 00:40:54:05 Speaker 1 What's so my the final question, Carol, it's the same question I ask every guest. What's your greatest hope for the future of architects in 25 years? So we're looking ahead towards like, 2050. 00:40:54:07 - 00:41:24:08 Speaker 2 My greatest hope is that architects will feel like they really influence the future of healthy communities, resilient communities, and that, you know, sort of whatever the climate is like 25 years from now. we've really thought about how to position people to thrive and that we didn't just stay kind of in our lane and assume it was other people's to worry about and solve, but, you know, created a bigger conversation about that. 00:41:24:10 - 00:41:48:11 Speaker 2 and I don't know if you've, do you ever read Ian McEwan? I'm a big reader. So his most recent book imagines what it's like 100 years from now. Yeah, yeah. And so it talks about, you know, coastal cities that disappeared. And. Yeah. So I think there's potentially very scary things in the future relative to climate and what we anticipate, but also some remarkable creativity that we could bring to it. 00:41:48:11 - 00:41:56:11 Speaker 2 And I don't think it will be just architects in their own lane, but creating a much broader conversation in communities, 00:41:56:13 - 00:42:17:06 Speaker 1 Design, writ large again. really amazing. Carole Wedge, newly ish, appointed CEO and executive vice president of the American Institute of Architects. thank you so much for joining us on Future of XYZ. this has been a fascinating conversation that I feel like we just scratched the surface. 00:42:17:08 - 00:42:26:12 Speaker 2 Thanks for having me, Lisa. And come visit in DC and all your listeners, come find us New York Ave and between 17th and 18th, we'd love to see you. 00:42:26:14 - 00:42:54:13 Speaker 1 I love that, and for everyone watching, you can listen anywhere you get your favorite podcast, The Future of XYZ. You can also, if you didn't know and you're listening, you can watch on YouTube. Be sure to leave us a five star review wherever you're listening, and tune in again in two weeks time. for our next episode, which actually will be The Future of Interiors with the CEO and Executive Vice president of the International Interior Design Association, Cheryl Durst. 00:42:54:15 - 00:43:03:06 Speaker 1 so we're continuing along this path of talking about the built environment. so thank you again, Carole, and thank you to all of our listeners. 00:43:03:08 - 00:43:06:09 Speaker 2 And have a blast with Cheryl. I saw her on a screen this morning. 00:43:06:15 - 00:43:13:05 Speaker 1 I love that it's so good. We're actually recording live. It's going to be the first time that happens. So. 00:43:13:11 - 00:43:15:02 Speaker 2 Lisa, I appreciate your inviting me. 00:43:15:04 - 00:43:16:19 Speaker 1 Thanks, Carole. I'll talk to you soon. 00:43:16:23 - 00:43:18:10 Speaker 2 Okay. Bye.