Latest / The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast / Villainous Behavior

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Villainous Behavior · The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: with i R Radio. It is the almost famous podcast.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Yes we are here. We have a lot to talk
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: about and I would not want to talk about it
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: with anyone other than my wonderful co host Ashley. Yeah yeah, yeah,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Well Ben and I couldn't even hold on three hours
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to talk about this episode. I had to call him
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: while I was at the tail end of watching. And
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: it's funny because after I hung up with you, my
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: sister and my friend were like, who else can we
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: call that has the screeners so that we can talk
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to them too? Because so outrageous. Yeah, well here here's
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and and here's the format of today's episode. This the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: reason Ashley called me and the reason that we decided
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: to talk about it before we even came on the
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: podcast today, because it was a hard episode to watch,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: especially the last third of this episode. We know that
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of you have very strong opinions and it's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I mean obviously very very yeah as with do we uh,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: it was um, it was hard. It was hard for
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: me to get to and and just to get started,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I had to admit to Astley, I said, you know,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I watched this and I'm not always great at and
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: you know we've done it over and over again where
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: somebody's had to correct us or you know, fans don't
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: see it the same way we do. I was like,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not always good with the things that upset me
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and make me feel really like like confused is always
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: how everybody else feels. I have to understand that going
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: in today's episode not not everybody's gonna have as the
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: same reaction I do. But when I watched this, I
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: was like, there's no way, and like, there's just no way.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I can't say that this was awful to watch. It
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: was not okay. Well, in my opinion, I don't think
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: there's any other way of seeing this episode other than
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Clayton's reaction towards Susie is truly disturbing. I think it
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: shows a side of him that we haven't seen before,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: and that's in seeing it makes me so glad that
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Susie and possibly none of these girls end up with him.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: That's a strong statement. Actually you stand by that? Yeah,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: right now? I do. Maybe I don't know. I mean,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I think it was kind of a kind of a
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: scary side. The term gas lighting is just so new
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that sometimes it sounds like kind of like taboo to say,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't feel like it carries the weight of
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: the situation honestly, Like you say just the term and
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: people are like, okay, yeah, that term this going around.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: But like today, I hope you and I can actually
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: talk through what happened during this conversation that we would
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: reference as gaslighting but was like actually put some like
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: words to this discussion because it was it was hard
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: through route right the whole. If you put an umbrella
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: over this conversation, say, oh it is gaslighting, yeah, okay, okay,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: but what actually was it inside of this that was
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: so upsetting for us to see and probably for Susie
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: to experience, The way that he tried to turn the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: tables on her and make her seem like she was
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: in the wrong and she was crazy, and that like
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the ending of their relationship was all on her, that
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: she made this massive mistake. It was villainous behavior on
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: his part that I feel like we've almost never seen before,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: especially from a lead. Yeah, especially for a lead, because
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: when you think of like villainous leads, like people think
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: about Wan Pablo and put in comparison between Clayton's behavior
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: with Susie and wom Pablo with Andy is saying that
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: it's okay, it's okay and like dismissing her feelings like that,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: and that was so light in comparison, and then like
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: with Claire, what he says with Claire is absolutely not okay.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: But in comparison this is just crazy. Yeah it's tough, well,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: and yeah it is hard. So there's there's gonna have
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: to be some This is a big conversation we had today,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: and obviously with a big episode, we have one of
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the fan favorite Siara Jackson on the podcast as well today. Um,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: she obviously participated in Women Tell All. She was outspoken
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: at Woman Tell We're gonna get her thoughts on this episode.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: In the situation we should mention that she was somebody
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: who had a poignant, uh something to say at the
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: end of the episode, because she was like, I know
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: how I don't know what the actual wording was, but
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: she was like, I know how horrible basically you were
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: at the end And maybe it makes sense now when
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: she said that why yesterday like he looks scared, yeah,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: And she was so unapologetic saying that, and I was like,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: whoa that was bold and now I'm like, oh, that
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: was so appropriate. Well, Ashley, Today's a big episode. It's
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: one of those that I didn't think we were going
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: to have on this season. I thought we were gonna
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: got to go through a whole season and talk about
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the show and the drama on the show and who
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't like who and who likes who. Um, But today
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: feels like one of those episodes and one of these
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: moments on this podcast. Uh that a really important conversation
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: needs to happen. Um. Obviously we have we we not
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: only have to have it, we get to have it
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: because we have a podcast about this show. And uh,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and we'll do it right here, but before we do,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: let's take a little break. We'll come back with the
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: almost famous podcast and also have Sierra Jackson. Manipulation at
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: its core is when you try to convince somebody to
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: change their mind for your benefit. He was definitely doing that.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: That was definitely Clayton attempting to change Susie's mind and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: make her feel crazy for his benefit. Which any Let's
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: be very clear, whenever you try to do that to
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: another human and you invalidate how they're feeling, thinking and emotionally,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: expressing themselves and you try to change them so that
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: you benefit from it. That's wrong. We're not just talking
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: about The Bachelor. We're talking about any situation where you
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: try to convince somebody that your opinion is right because
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: they're wrong and they're crazy. This is not that. This
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: is not having a mature argument. At this point, there
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: is obvious he felt like he had to defend himself
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and instead of validating her feelings, saying, you know what,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I hear you and it's wrong, but I love you now. Love,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: as we've learned before, is not a thing to convinced
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Susie then that she needs to keep with him. But like,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I'm so defensive here because of my feelings for you,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: and I know I was wrong and I have no
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: way to explain it. Instead of him validating her feelings,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: he invalidated her feelings and made her feel crazy. And
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: that's where we have to say, no, it's not okay, uh,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: this is you know, this is the most I mean,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I can't even think about the rest of the episode
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: given what we see here, but let's give it a
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: little context to it. I mean, everybody listening to this
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: has probably seen the episode, but the gist of it
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: is that Susie is upset that he slept with the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: other two girls. She tells him now during her fantasy
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: sweet Day that she would not be cool with him
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: sleeping with with the other women and then choosing her,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: And it goes beyond that, because not only did he
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: admit to sleeping with the other women, at first, he
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: kept saying somebody someone as if he was singular, until
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: he finally kind of admitted it was both of them.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: He also says that he was he also, like it,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: confessed that he told both of them that there was love,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: like he dropped the L word with both of them,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and She's basically like, well, I can't possibly. I maybe
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I should have told you earlier, but I'm not cool
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: with you saying those things or being intimate in that
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: way with these other people when I'm in the picture still,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And yeah, maybe should I have said that? Sure, um,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: but I didn't want to give you an ultimatum, and
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I kind of respect that. I'm kind of you know,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: yesterday I was saying, like, maybe she should have told
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: him earlier, if that's how she she felt, But at
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the same time, now I'm thinking about in a different way.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I like the fact that she didn't give him an ultiman,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: that she didn't even mention that because if it truly
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: was her and he knew it was truly her in
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: which he supposedly claims. Now he's like, yeah, but I
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: love you most. That's what he says, I love you most, which,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: let me pause, there is what I was saying earlier.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Because you and I both learned through this podcast. You know,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I've made statements about um love and how and people
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: have corrected me and said, hey, like people use the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: word love to get their way, right, they manipulate people
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: through saying I love you, I love you. This is
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: all out of love those things, It's right. We've learned
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: that on this podcast. And so when I'm watching this
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: and he's saying I've loved you most, it's but yeah,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: he's already made up his mind that he's over the relationship.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: It's almost to me like reminding me of that conversation
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: we have last year. It's like, no, he's using this
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to try to convince her that he's in the right,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: and that's wrong like this, you know, from the year
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: of doing this, now I'm learning, like when I'm seeing
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: right in front of my eyes. He's using heavy words,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: big words like love and care and all this stuff
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to try to make her feel bad. Yeah, and it's like, Clinton, Uh,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: do you love her most now? Because she's telling you
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: this and she's pulling away and you know you're about
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to lose her? Or are you saying that? Or did
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: you really know that you loved her the most going
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: into this week, Because in either situation, you're kind of
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: You're just it's a lose lose for him. He's basically
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: admitting to her in some way that like, yeah, I
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: slept with the other girls for fun, but I knew
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: it was you, which just really makes it. Yeah. So
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and obviously we're going to go through the other two dates, um,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: you know, and we're going to break this down. But
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to end this thought here before we get into it
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: a lot more in just a few minutes, Um, I
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: do think there was a way to have this conversation.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I actually think there was a really good way that
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Susie and Clayton could have sat down and that Susie
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: could have expressed that she was hurt. Susie could have
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: expressed that she didn't love the things that were done
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: and that she didn't like that he had slept with
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: other people if if he knew she was the one,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: and that he could have responded in a way that admitted,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: you know, what he had done. He doesn't even need
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to admit fault. I don't think. I don't think his
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: issue is in sleeping with the other women. I don't
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: think at all. I'm not saying maybe it was the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: wise decision. I'm not even saying it was a good
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: decision if he knew Susie the one. But I don't.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: But none of this, none of being upset with Clayton
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: right now, is about him sleeping with other women. It's
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: about how he handled the hunt conversation after Susie asked him.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Is how where all this goes down. Yes, we cannot
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: get mad at him for sleeping with other women if
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: he was never asked to be held to that standard
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: by by Susie. Okay, But it also doesn't mean that
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Susie still can't say I'm hurt by how this happened.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I don't feel good about the decision you made and
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: where it took a nasty turn, A nasty turn here
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: wherever where all of our conversation, probably for the rest
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: of the podcast after we get through the first two days.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: So he's gonna go is not in his decision to
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: sleep with two women. It's how he handled the conversation
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: and how he made Susie feel well, Ashley, we do
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: have a special guest coming on. Sarah Jackson is here
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: to join us. We're gonna get her thoughts and everything,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: and also her thoughts on the Woman Tell All that
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: we obviously talked about yesterday on the podcast and thought
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: it was uh un enjoyable to watch. Here is Sara Jackson. Okay, Siara,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: We'll be honest with the audience. We get the screeners.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: You haven't seen the episode, the Fantasy Sweet episode as
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: of the time of this taping, but you did make
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: a comment during Women Tell All that just made us go, whoa.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: That's when you kind of said, you know, Clayton, you
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: mess up, you guss up real bad. Um. We can,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: of course disclose anything that happens at the end, but
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: do you know like how he met, like how he
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: messed up with Susie, Like have you spoken to Susie?
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I have, but I obviously can't say any details of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: our conversation right and I'm not going to share any
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: details of our conversation. But um, I have gotten a
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: child here since everything happened, and I just know that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I just know that she was hurt, that she was
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: really hurt, and and and that that hurts me because
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you know, one of my good friends, and I think
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that's a like obviously, you know, as actually just mentioned,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: we're recording this at uh uh one thirty Mountain Time
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday, the episode Heir until tonight, we've seen it,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: you haven't. So everybody that's watched this episode now that
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: we'll be listening to this podcast understands completely what you're saying.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, Susie was hurt. Uh and in a way,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: you know, in a way, I just wonder what once
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: she left the show, like, did she have a support
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: system around her to let her know that she's not crazy?
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Were you could you answer? Were you there to be like, hey,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I did I I reached out to her, So I
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I actually I hadn't heard out. I have been able
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: to hear for her, you know, from a little bit
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: because obviously they're all going to take their time, you know,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: when they come home to kind of readjusting it back
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: to everything. And then so I kind of reached out
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: a few times though, and then finally if she responded
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: back and she was like, you know, I'm ready to talk,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you know. So Um, but when I when I've she
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: did respond back, you know, we did get to chat
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: and connect, and I just let her know, like you
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: know that if she every wants to talk more and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: express more, and if she never filling down or just
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: needs somebody to just be there like she always set
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: up me or you know, Marley and are any of
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: us girls will all listen. So she she has a
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: great support system. I think so too with her family.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: And then I'm not gonna lie like you know the Bachelor.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: You know, ABC provides a really great support system too
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: for everything as well. So um, I think that helps
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: a lot to with being able to like you know,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: link up with you know, the psychologist they provide and
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: everything too after the fact. So UM, I think I think, yeah,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: she's she's good as golden. I know it. But between
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: your comment, um and a couple of the other girls
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: comments about like how the ending unfold, what's your general
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: consensus as like a group of women towards Clayton right now?
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So uh we think that, Um, the overall outlook that
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: we all have and I can speak and I'm gonna
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: say this because I've heard it from all all the girls. Um.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: You know, some of the girls are very very nice
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: when they're right in front of him, UM, and Sugarcoat
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of things, and they're right in front of them,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: or when they're on camera, and then whenever they're off
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: camera or not right in front of them, they speak
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: their minds. Who knows, maybe they're I don't know what's
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: what's real and what's not about from what I'm hearing,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: UM and what we've all talked about, you know, UM,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of the women are. They were disappointed with
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Clayton overall. UM, and a lot of us went into
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: this expecting a different bachelor from the very beginning. And
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: so there's that right there. You different a different human, yes,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: not different personality from him, a different human, yeah, a
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: different human. And and so then you know, right before
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you know we leave, you know, and and and and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: and go to filming everything, you know, we finally find
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: out who it is. And UM, for me, at that point,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, okay, well I've done and bought fifteen dresses,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: so it's happening. You know it's happening. I'm gonna cross
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: my finger. It's gonna be a blond day. We're gonna
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: make the best of it. Like, he's not ugly, so
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: you know, like if this personality is there, then it
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: could turn into something. You know. No, wait, didn't you
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: even see him? Did you know? His face looks like
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: did you like? Yeah, yeah you did. That's it. We
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: got like that one picture and he's like in a
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: purple shirt. You know that one You got the ABC
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: picture of him? That's it? Yeah? Who did you think
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: it was? I just was just some guys. We just
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: knew it was this guy. I don't know. But who
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: did you think the Bachelor was gonna be? Um? We
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: all so we thought it was gonna be Andrews Spencer,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: um myke A or um Or or Greg. And of
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: the girls wanted to be Greg, and so I feel like,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like they might have casted
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: for Greg, which is why a lot of us were
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: still kind of spicy and like opinionated and very strong women.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Um because honestly, I feel like growth can handle a
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: woman like that. But so that's what I think is
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: kind of what what was cast before and then and
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: then thing has kind of changed or whatever. I don't know, though,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I have no idea, but not just
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: my like my thought process on it. But yeah, I
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: mean a lot of people don't understand, you know. They
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: think there's a lot of prep and that you know
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: who this person is. I mean, I found out who
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: my bachelorettes were going to be the night before I
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: showed up to the mansion. I was watching it live
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: on television with everybody else, and they were doing some
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: live show and they announced two bachelorttes at that point. Uh,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and you just you kind of mean, I like what
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you just said. It's kind of like a blind blind day.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, these people are ugly, they obviously have
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: been on television before, and they've lasted a while with
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: the other person, so I'm assuming they're likable. Let's go
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: give this a shot. Like, let's see you think, well
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: if this works, so let's you know, some concept or
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: context there. But at least I had the ability and
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: actually had the bild be to watch our leads previously
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: on another season. You just got an ABC picture, which
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: is never flattering. Yeah, and it's and you don't really
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: know I mean, had I for me personally, and I'm
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: not like passionate plane or anything. But had I watched
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Michelle season and got to watch like, I would have
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: just passed up on it because I would have already
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: known then it wouldn't work out between him and I
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: like personality wise. So um, that's the one thing that
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: you kind of do mess out on by not getting
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: to see um, is that you could have just weeded
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: out my personality. And I'm sure if you were to
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: watch me on something, you would be like, yeah, that
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: is not my cup of tea. I do not like
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: that girl, and it would have been vice versa, and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: so then you just get that on time. But yeah, well, Sierra,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: that begs the question, how could you guys be annoyed
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: at people like Claire, like Cheney, like anyone that you
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: thought was there for the wrong reasons when you guys
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: sort of felt the same way or like you weren't
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: like even wanting to be with him. So for Claire,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I wasn't really annoyed with Claire. I will I'll say that,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: like I I can't speak on anybody else. I was
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: just that was night one. That was my first impression ever,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: and It wasn't that Claire was like, you know, dashing
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Klayton or whatever like that. I was more concerned because
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: it seemed like she was like, you know, intoxicated, and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: so that's why I was like, Oh, she's being messy.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: She's kind of being unhinged because night one, you drink
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: a lot and then you're being messy. And it's not
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: because you're messy, is because you're drunk, you know. And
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: so that's why I was like, oh, yikes, because that's
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: night one, you're just gonna be you have access to it,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: so pace yourself, you know. So that was more my
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: thing with Claire Um. As for Cassidy, I didn't have
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: an issue with like or not Cassi. Cassy was the
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: whole side piece thing Lion Klitt in Space. That was
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I just I don't like liars, Like I can't stand
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: a liar. That's my biggest pet pee. That's my tick.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: That the one thing that I'll like immediately get me
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: really angry. Um is like when people like me. And
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: so that was my frustration with Casti, And that was
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: my frustration with Shena as well as because she was
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: being hypocritical as she was lying and that's why we
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: didn't like her. It wasn't she could have. She could
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: probably know she could have. She was there prolonging the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: reason she was there for cloud she was and she won.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll give it to her a hundred thousand percent.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Whatever she came for, she got it. She won, she
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: did her thing. Like, congratulations to her. I can give
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: her kudos and like, I'm not gonna hate on the girl.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I think she is absolutely beautiful. I think she's stunning.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I think she could breaking go a really long way
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: with all the exposure she's gotten. But I do think
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: her personality nasty and gross and so she that's what
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I'm annoyed about. Like, and that's the issue that I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: have with her, is that she was deliberately just mean
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: and nasty to people. She could have went after that
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: man without doing all that, So that's what I mean.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Everybody else didn't. So I don't see why she couldn't have.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. I have to disagree with you, Siarra.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think she won. I don't know what you're
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: referencing when you say she won, because I don't think
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: this plays out well for her, Like I don't think
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: there's I mean, you know, I've I've been in this
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: world now for many years. Right. Uh, it comes and
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: goes fast. It's an amazing story to tell your friends
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: and your family, and it's awesome when you run into
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: somebody that is like, hey, I was a fan of
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the show and it's great, Like that's all really good
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: and it's been good for me personally. It's open up
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: new opportunities. However, it comes and goes fast, even when
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you're you know, the show was good to you or
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: you were good to the show. So when you say
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: she's one, what do you what do you mean by that?
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: What I mean by that is because you know, obviously
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: it's subjective of what people all consider whinny. But for me,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: she went onto the show to exposure, whether it was
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: positive or negative, because obviously if it were to be positive,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't have said the things she said, right, so
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't. For exposure. That was her main purpose, that
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: was her goal. That's what she wanted. It doesn't matter
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: what kind of exposure it was, but that's what in
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: her mind she wanted, and that's what it would make
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: it worth it. And so like you know, when there's
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: somebody like like, I went on there to hopefully fall
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: in love, fine love, fall walk away with the man
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: like it's over here is dry and Dallas, Okay, so
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: like that is what I went out there for. A
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: baby is so cute, but okay, So that's what I
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: went out there for, right that was my motive. I
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: did not leave with that, so I lost. I did,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: like I came back with friends, though I love the
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: friends that I have, But my motive was that I
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: didn't leave with that. So I lost. And I could
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: care less about Wow. I feel I could care less
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: not screen job, I could less not Cloud, I can
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: care less about anything else. I could care less. I
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: have a great job, a great apartment. I love my
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: life like I'm living me, So I could give lust.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: But she went on for a reason, and I'm that reason.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: She got it. She didn't care about getting the man.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: She wanted Cloud, and she wanted exposure, and she got it.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: So she wanted and what she came for, and so
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, she played her cards right for her and
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: what she wants. And so that's the devil's advocate right here.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: If you and some of the other girls were saying
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: that you were really into it, and then why stick
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: around if it weren't for followers, Cloud and all that.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: So me, I'm thinking, okay, you know what, but if
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: he is really a good guy, what if these red claws,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: which is I'm drumming to conclusions, like you know, see
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: her just like wait it out, given more time. By
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the time I got to Houston, kids, you not, I
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I lost my shop the night of the cocktail party
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: when I'm in the green dress, I lost my shop,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: entirely lost it. And obviously it's a show. But like
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I lost my show so much again this
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: McDonald's afterwards, which you should know, you should know, that's
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: the luxury that was like our target run literally so
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: so I I was so upset and I was like,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I'm done with this. I'm done, upon I'm done. I
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: know I'm here for entertainment. I'm a quota. I want
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: to get the out, send me home, like this is
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: not my person, It's not for me, It's not gonna happen.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I've tried, I've been optimistic, I've been you know, positive,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and it's not it. So just let me go back
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to my life. And finally that happened. So but but
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: me like, yeah, to answer your question, I was ready
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: to kick rocks and up and it's and I mean
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I would have to say too, that's not all bad, right,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: because like it's fair for the show to say that
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: to you because it's it obviously moves so fast, there's
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: so much going on. I remember when I was at
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the lead, there was women there that the same comment
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: was made to me, Hey, you don't send them home
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: maybe yet, like there's more to get to know about it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: And if I said no, I'm very for sure this
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: is not the one for me, they just said, okay,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: go ahead, like it's fine. But there was always that
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: there's more to get to know and at some level,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: you know, if anything, it allowed you to be around
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: and make more friends. But I think the idea of hey,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: there's still more to get to discover. The show doesn't
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: really know if Clayton is gonna come out of his shell.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: The show doesn't know if he's gonna blossom. It could
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: be that they're like, we see this guy behind the
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: scenes when there's no cameras and he's like the most
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: amazing guy, and then he gets on camera and like,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: we see what you're saying. Series he shuts down, and
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: so we're hoping in two weeks Clayton thrives and shines
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: and you fall for him. So I don't even have
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: a problem with them telling to stick around. I don't
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: have a problem with that. Yeah, and I didn't either,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: because the things like that was the only thing is
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: like the version that everyone sees on camera, that's the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: version we were given. We weren't given this Instagram version
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: of clay and we were giving this snaphop version of
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Twitter version of personality. We weren't given any of that.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: We were given exactly what you guys see, which is
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: is is not enough to want to marry someone. And
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: so you know that's it. So so you know me,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I'm wanting more, and I mean, I know that I
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: don't mean and I know what I need to fall
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: in love with and on what I need to have
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: like a lasting relationship, and I'm needing a lot more.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: And so I'm just being optimistic, like you know, I
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: have nothing to lose. I'm already here. If they're telling
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you a way, then yeah, of course they want me
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to make sure like absolutely that whatever it doesn't work,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: it's because it didn't work, not because I gave up
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: or didn't give it time or whatever. So I get
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: a while they're telling me to just like see what happens,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and so I did. Um, but like you know, like
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I said before, like you know, the longer I stayed,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: the more the more red flags I saw. It didn't
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: it didn't really clear up anything, and just kind of
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: got worse. And then for me, yeah, what were those
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: red flags that you guys were seeing? Gosh? Okay, so
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't know it was a laundry list, but it's like,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, all right, go ahead, yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: So it starts off biggest red flag. Okay, started up
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: with a big one. We obviously have a children's group date, right,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Hilary Duff From the beginning, Okay, the main purpose of
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: this day is to see how well we work with children,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: because he wants children someday. He's passionate about kids, okay,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: he But yet he gives a group date rows to
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: a woman that did nothing with the kids, never helped
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: out with the kids, was never part of the party,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: didn't do anything with the children. So that right there
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: as a red flag. I'm like, okay, she didn't do anything.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: She was by the pool with you making out. She
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't involved, She wasn't doing anything. She was also drinking
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: around the kids, not really like involved at all, but
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: yet she deserved a group at ROWS. So that was
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: my first red flag. That was huge to me, um.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And then after that, my next one was on the
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: night that he sent Elizabeth home, he had pulled Day
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and Elizabeth the chat, and he did not really have
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: a real conversation without either of them to break it
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: down and and dissect what the actual issue is. He
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: kind of just stepped there and let them go at it.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And then I was like okay. Then like he didn't,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: he didn't. There was no proactive discussion at all. And
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: then after that he sends Elizabeth home. So that was
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the next red flag to me, And then I asked
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: him about it, and he told me that he sent
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: her home because she was being aggressive during their chat
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: and that she was the one like kind of getting
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: an attitude with Sina and she was very calm, and
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: so he yes, right, and that's what he tells me though,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and so I'm like okay, and this is in the moment,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: so I'm like okay, Like Okay, that makes sense because
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I'm questioning your actions, but this makes sense. But then
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I watched it back when it aired, and I'm like,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Janey is freaking out and Elizabeth is being calm, so
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: what and so that was that was like interesting to me.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: And it's all happens after Nai is freaking out and
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: talking to Clay and on the group days and didn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: causing all this strama, and he keeps believing Say and
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: dismissing everybody else, and so it was all just a
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: really big red flag because it was ultimately I'm gonna
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: believe say and anything anything that Shane says, and I'm
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: not gonna believe anybody else in the house. And when
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Susie tells you something and talk to you about something
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I did, Elizabeth like, I mean, if you don't want
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to believe me because I'm I see my drama, or
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: you don't want to believe anybody else, okay, that's my
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: but believe Stuzie. And Susie comes up to you and says, hey,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: this is a red flag. This isn't right. I'm concerned,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, good, should I hears a rose
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: like no, that's a huge red flag. And so that happened,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: and then you know all those little things you're in there,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: you just kind of kept showing. You know that he
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: you know it doesn't really have that much of a
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: back phone, and and that he thinks with the wrong head.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: And I wait until you see tonight. I would love
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: to have you on next week just so you can
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: have you could share more thoughts, but you let do it, yes,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: special segment the Honesty Hour with Sierra every week. Oh
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: that's so cute. I like that, Sierra, as we as
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: we let you go here in just a few minutes.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I do want to touch on Women till All. We've
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: talked a lot about your season and kind of you know,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: all the women's thoughts on Clayton and all of that,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: but obviously Women Tell All was, um, well, I don't
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: know if I don't know if you're a huge fan
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: of Almost Famous podcast. I'm assuming you are and that
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: you listen to it every week, but if you haven't
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: got a chance to listen to yesterday's episode, Ashley and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I found this Woman Tell All um hard to watch
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: for multiple reasons. Um, it felt like a lot of yelling,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: which is never easy for me to to uh, to
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: listen to you just because I can't hear um what's
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: going on. It felt like there wasn't really a moderator.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying Jesse didn't step in, but typically like
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: that is the host job is to calm the storm,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and maybe he just felt like it wasn't appropriate or whatever.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: For you, can you explain what it was like to
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: be in that room and what it felt like not
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: only emotionally but also just physically to be there amongst
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: all of this. Uh? And then how do you feel
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: now after watching it back? So being in the room,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: being back there, I was, I was really just like
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: kind of fed up and exhausted. Um just with like
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: she really and like her lying and all of her
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: bull crap and obviously you know, annoying with some things
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: with Clayton right and being there. You know, I don't
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: think that people realize that the filming of a woman
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: to all is long. It takes hours hours, eight hours. Yeah,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: so whenever, so, and I want to say what he
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: like everyone saw because it was a lot and it
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: was emotional and it was stressful. But for me, I'm
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: very protective and that's just how I am, Like I
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: was raised with you know, like me and my sisters
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: raised each other, parents weren't like really around all too much,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: and so, um, I have the mentality like to protect
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: the ones I love. So when I look back and
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I see how hurt she made my friends, it hurts
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: me and it makes me very very angry, And like,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: no one's gonna understand that views and watches they're not
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: because they're not there behind the scenes. They're not there
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: at night time, they're not there after the show's filming,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: they're not there for any of it, so they don't
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: need to see how mentally affective some of these girls were.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: By Shinney okay period, and so or clay In really either.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: So whenever I was able to see that this is
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Woman Tell All, it's Woman Tell All. That's literally the name.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell anything that I can and say
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: whatever I can. And it's really sad because they cut
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: out a lot of good things too that I got
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: to say, um, that we're not so aggressive or they
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: start that. There were other things that I just made
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: really good points on that weren't hype. But for the
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: eight hours I will tell you the eight hours of filming,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: everything they showed, they they were showing of me. Was
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: everything I said in eight hours crammed into hours, except
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: for one or two things that they left up. And
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: so if you can take my eight hours of commentary
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and ramming into two hours, obviously that's gonna be a lot.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: I was not, like, you know what I mean, that's
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: gonna seem like a lot, and it's gonna seem like
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of interjecting. It's gonna seem like a lot
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: of shotting. But that wasn't all shouting crammed in at
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: that time. It was literally over a span of eight
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: hours of filming and then allbviously clipping, cutting and piecing together,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: and other women said things. Other women said a lot
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: of hype things. You know, a lot of women were
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: getting upset. There was a lot of yelling and screaming,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: and there wasn't a lot of control. And so there
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: are times when you do see me saying like shutting
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: up other people and being like hey stop, because those
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: were times that I did actually because before that happened,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: they're all getting hype and they're just yelling. They're just yelling.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: They're not really saying anything, they're just yelling, right, And
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I'm spitting there and they're just yelling and there's no
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: actual valid point being made. They're just literally saying mean
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: things like just yelling, and I have a vo a point.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell them to stop talking. I'm gonna stay
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: stop talking and shosh, let me say this really quick
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: and you havent go back to yelling. But like, I
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: just want to make at this one point. And so
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I did that probably like three times, you know. But
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: the three times I did it because they didn't show
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: everything else. It does look like I'm just not letting
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: other people speak. But other people were speaking, and other
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: people were shouting and yelling and sharing what they wanted
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: to share as I just sat there and looked around,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: And when I finally had something to say, I was like,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: hold up, stop talking, let me say this real quick,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: not for a scene and start yelling again, you know. So,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: but it was very crazy and hectic, and it was
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of you know, Jerry Springer vibes. It was
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: crazy like it was, and I'm not gonna lie like
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: it was, but I will say like everything I said
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: was valid, and I don't I don't take any of
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: it back. And like the emotions that I felt whenever
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I was speaking were the emotions at that time and
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: being upset because you know, viewers don't see Scha denying
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: something over and over again. You know, she denies it
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: three times. By the third time, I'm like, are you
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: kidding me? And I'm going off on her and they're
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: clipping the are you kidding me saying it's like, you know,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: not really showing the whole context of the fact that
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: she's just denying something over and over over again, or
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: she's saying like, I mean, there was a few times
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: where she literally points seeing me out and she's like, Sierra,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Genevieve and and Elizabeth, you're fake. You guys are fake.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Everything about she is big or blah blah blah blah blah,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: you know, and so we're literally like, how are we fake?
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Like can you please just tell us how, Like, just
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: give us any reason why. We'll listen to it. Our here.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: We're trying to be receptive, like we want to hear
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: you out, we really really do, so please tell us how.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: And she's like, well, you just are, you know you are,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: and we're like, we'll just give us a reason. So
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: that's my thing is that it was very frustrating because
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: of what the all the things that went on, it
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: was us a lot. It was a lot of denial.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: It was a lot of pointing fingers. It was a
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: lot of hypocrisy. And some people can sit at and
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: just stay calm, and then there's other people like me
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: who are just gonna get fed up and annoyed and snap.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And so that's what I did, is I snapped because
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: obviously I have nothing to lose on the show. You
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: don't see me super snap because I'm over here like
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: trying to have on my best behavior and I don't
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: want to look a certain way or be a stereo
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: type or blah blah blah, and on this one at all,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I have nothing to lose. I could care
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: less at this point. This is like you're being stupid.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you like it is, and I'm gonna
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be emotional and if people don't like it,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: then they can kick rocks. I don't care. But I've
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: never what it is. I've never heard anybody else use
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: the phrase kick rocks. I use it on this podcast
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: a lot and never heard anybody else ever use it.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: And so thank you for that. Um I say it
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: all the time. It's like my favorite thing because I
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: was just imagined somebody with their hands in their pockets,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: like kicking rocks down the driveway or gravel road, like
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: so good, it's so far. All right, Well we do
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: have to let you go, but before we leave, I
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: want I got one question for you, just because it
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: didn't seem like you love your portrayal during Women tell
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: all you wanted to leave the Bachelor? Would you do
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Bachelor in Paradise? I don't know, come on, I it
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: really is up in the act. I don't think you
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: all really truly realized, like how over it I was
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: during during the actual filming as a Bachelor, and then
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: by the time I came back and now like watching
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: it back, I mean it's like now a woman's at
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: all and now I'm getting all these racist comments from
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: random people from woman's at all, and so like for me,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it would be a cool experience,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: I think, but ultimately, like really truly truly, like I
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: just want to get married and have kids, Like I
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: want to get married, I want to have kids. I
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: want to have a family. I want to live in
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Texas not paying co tax and live my best life, like, like,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: that's what I want. I really truly don't. I'm not
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: trying to get famous, I'm not trying to get cloud like.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I don't care, Like I just want a family and
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I want to have like little babies that look like
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: me running around. Yeah, and I just don't know if
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna find not. So Yeah, well Ashley did and
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: you can hear the results of that as podcast. This
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: is a podcast or a Paradise baby. Well, Siara, we
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: hope to see you in paradise. There's a couple of
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: reasons why. One, Um, I do think you spoke your mind. Obviously,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: as you said, every time you spoke your mind, it
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: was shown, and so it feels like you spoke your
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: mind the whole time. And I know you did sit
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: and listen and then respond, uh, and I know how
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: this plays out. I also think, uh, that you're really
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: good to have around because I do think that you
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: speak up what is going on in your heart, and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I think that's always positive. And I'm sorry that people
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: have been mean to you since last night's episode and
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: probably even before that. Uh, You're not alone in that. Uh.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm obviously a white dude. Sitting here. So
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you that I've gotten the same kind
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of comments, but I can tell you that there's not
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: one person that does this show that does not receive
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: some type of uh, painful comments coming out of it. UH.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: And so whatever um you choose to do, we're thankful
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: for you coming on the day and hanging out with us.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Uh and we respect your voice a lot. So hey,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: thank you, and UM we hope to talk to you again.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: You're a good guest. Thank you so much better, appreciate
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: you so much, by thank you, by y'all. Obviously, Ciri
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: was an incredible guest with a lot of insight. UM.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: She's one of those people that come off the show
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: that does speak her mind, and that is especially for
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: a podcast. Always appreciate it. I think it was also appreciated. UM.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: It sounds like by the group of friends that she
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: had and how else because I do think she supported
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: them well, Ashley. Uh. In our last final moments here
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: as we close out this this podcast, we do want
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: to run through this episode, uh that we had three
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Fantasy Suite dates, the first to UM obviously, one with Gabby,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: one with Rachel. UM. You know, it felt like to me.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: The storyline throughout was hey, he's into him and there
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: into him, and uh, it kind of was like the
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: moderator behind the scenes was Susie just continuing to reinforce
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: into all the viewers mind like are they going to
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: sleep together or not? Like that was kind of my thoughts. Yeah,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: at the end, it was just like Susie's leaving. Susie's leaving,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: So you know the first two dates. Uh, I wasn't shocked,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I think because of how many teasers we've gotten that
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: he expressed love for both of them. I obviously am
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: not in a place to judge him. There I'm watching,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: going I get it, and I could go on and on,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and we've done it many times on this podcast about
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: you know, you're in this situation and what that feels
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: like and you know it's chaotic and you can't really
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: get your thoughts straight and only thoughts you know how
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: to communicate are the ones that you're feeling at that moment.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: And so he obviously says this, and I'm sitting there
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: going like, for for, I bet my name is brought
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: up tonight on Twitter more than it's been in like
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: four years, Like, I bet, I bet he you know,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: he held or I held his beer. Uh, and he
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: he went off and did this in ways that I
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: never dreamed of doing it. But I cannot criticize him
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: for that. But that is the first part of this episode.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Are those dates going well in theory for that relationship,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: him sleeping with both um telling both that he loved them, uh,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: telling making the one thing here that I do think
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: and you could probably argue I did the same thing,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: um falling in love versus in love. Yeah, I mean
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: I think that was I think that's like at some level,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: like I would argue it's semantics, like I can't give myself,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I can't give myself a break there, right, Like I
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: do think that you could argue that I did the
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: same thing. And so I'm not like saying, you know,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I'm holier now here, but probably something I could be
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: criticized for and admit to that I don't love that
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I did. That I don't love that he did. Is
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I think he led both to believe that they were
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the one for him. And I think that's a problem
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: because I think in his mind, at least from what
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: we see at the end of the episode, Susie was
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: the one for him, But yet he is making those
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: girls feel like they're the one for him, which probably
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: makes them, you know, relax, have more fun, come back
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: all giddy, like, oh I just found my husband. And again,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: if there's anybody that should be criticized for this, or
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: they could sit in the same campus him, it's me.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: But I just don't think it was good. I don't
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: think it was good that I did it. I don't
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: think it was good that he did. I don't think
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: it's a wise decision. On the show, you know, when
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: you did it, it seemed like it was almost like
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: an accident. You're like, oh, right, well I didn't think that. Yeah.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I was like I went back and pounding my head
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: against my pillow in my hotel room and like, I'm
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: an idiot. I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot. Like that
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: was word vomit for you. It's like you really did.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like you really feel that, but you didn't
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: mean to actually say it out loud to both And
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: then with Clayton, it was like very intentional, like he
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: wanted them to know this, like he thought he was
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: doing the right thing, and he even kind of mentioned
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: that to Serene during Women Tell All he was like,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: you made me make the you know, in so little work.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: He's like, you made me made the make the decision
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: that I should just be open and honest about my
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: feelings towards everyone. And I really think that that was
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: what was going through his head when he intentionally said, like,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I love you to all three women, and I mean
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I would love to give myself the benefit of the doubt.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do think you're not wrong. I know
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: my reaction once that day, those days were over, and
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I know that I went back and like paste around
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: my Jamaican hotel room and was like you are so
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: dumb then, like you cannot do this right. You've messed
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: this whole thing up. So I get Yeah, I mean
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I felt a lot of like, um guilt, I guess
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: because of this. But I also am now, you know,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: years out, married, happily married, moved on, and I can say, hey,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I just don't think it was a good decision that
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: I made. Don't think it was aod decision he made. Okay,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: so onto his worst decision, um one that is a
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: very serious matter is he sits down with Susie. They
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: have a great date. Put up, well, do they have
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: a great date. I think I am over analyzing thee
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: but I still feel like she was losing interest, or
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm misinterpreting that. Maybe it was just her worry,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: like her worried like, oh what happened with the others.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I'm very like, I'm keeping you at a distance because
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know how I'm going to feel about you
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: when we actually have this conversation later. I think, yeah,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: so I was until you just finished that I was
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: going to disagree with you. I don't think she was
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: losing interest. I think her mind was elsewhere. I think
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: her mind was on the conversation they were going to
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: have at dinner the whole time, and I'm assuming she
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: never felt like it was appropriate to have it as
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: they're dancing in a steam shower or they're running through ice,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: like that doesn't feel like the right time to have this,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: And so she made it through that to have the
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: conversation later. And I do think there was that sense
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: of I'm not in this right now, and I'm just
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: hoping that the worst or what my mind is, what
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking in my mind is not true. Okay, so
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: you're pulling up the quotes um and as you do
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: that this is how the date goes on. They have
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: their morning portion. Ashton, I just mentioned it felt distance,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: but I think we could blame that on her mind
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: being elsewhere. They sit down at dinner and at some
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: point Susie within that dinner says, here's my concerns, here's
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: where my mind's at your You've just told me that
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: you love me, um, and I obviously am very into you,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: and I'm falling in love with you or I am
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: in love with you, but I need to know if
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: you have been intimate with anybody else, Like are you
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: telling these other women the same thing? So the first
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: question I have for you, Ashley and for the audience listening,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: and you can answer, they can answer to as they
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: hear this. Was it appropriate for Susie to ask Clayton
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: on the spot about the other relationships going on at
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: the time? I think, yes, Why? Why? Because I think
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: it's an okay thing. I think it's something you should know. Um.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I know you said yesterday You're like, it's different with
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: the Bachelor because like the start of your relationship is
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: kind of like when you leave just the two of you.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: But I think it's totally fair to know if you're
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: like saying I love you, or like falling or like
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: having sex with somebody else before you get engaged to
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: that person. I would say the same thing. I would say,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: it would be a really hard position to be in
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: as the lead if that's you know, the decisions that
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: you've made. Um, I don't think it would be an
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: ideal like to be put up in a position to
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: have to answer it. But I think at this point
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: in a relationship is you're a week away from getting engaged.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Any questions on the table, like, yeah, you should not
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: like fair, It's all fair, Like it is all fair.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Even the hardest conversations are fair because you're about to
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: get engage with somebody. And if we're really if this
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: show really is going to form healthy loving relationships, you
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: know this with being married. Our listeners know this if
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: they've been in a really healthy, loving relationship. Hard questions
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: are asked all the time, and like that's part of it,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: the communication their fact. Okay, so we've gotten through that hurdle.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: The second step is Clayton's response is he is honest.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: It's obviously throws him off and he feels defensive, but
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: he is honest and he tells that's the thing. At first,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't really like it right, and then all of
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: a sudden he's like, I hate you, okay, but he
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: answered it, so so we get to this point in
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: time where he has answered the question honestly. As we
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: mentioned the beginning of the podcast, there is a really
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: good way this conversation could have occurred and happened. They
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: both could have talked it out. They might have still
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: separated and gone their separate ways, because hey, Susie is
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: just like, I can't get over this and this is
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: too weird for me, and you slept with people when
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: you're gonna That would have been an okay result of
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: all this. But it's how then, between her leaving and
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: him having his first initial response, or maybe even her
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: question that this thing gets ugly, so fast and so
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: horrible to watch. Ashley, you called me obviously you're watching
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: with your sister and your friend, and you were like,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: we gotta call somebody that's seen it. At what point
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: did you go, oh my gosh, like this is no
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: longer even fun for me to watch. This is hard
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: for me to watch. Okay. The point was when he says,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: you've invalidated everything we have what because she didn't tell
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: you before the Fantasy Suite week that she would have
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: preferred you not sleep with everyone. Wow. No, Yeah, that
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: being said, I don't have an issue with him choosing
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: to sleep with people. My issue, which you said earlier
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: in the show, is is choice of words, how he's
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: treating her, how he's flipping this whole situation on like
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: it being her fault that that they are no longer
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: going to work out, and at its simplest level, like
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: if we just totally like like boiled this down to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: how this whole conversation went, it was Clayton continuing to
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: try to make Susie feel like it was her fault. Yeah,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: which is the definition of gaslighting. It is, And it
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: was awful to see because there was no admittance on
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: his part of yes, I made this decision. I didn't
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: know like that this was gonna hurt you. He's not
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the first lead, as we mentioned yesterday, to sleep with
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: multiple people. I promise you that he might, and like
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: there's some leads that don't sleep with anybody, there's some
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: leads that might just sleep with one. But he's not
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: the first lead guy or girl to sleep with multiple people.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: In the fantasy sweets before they get engaged. Okay, so
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: we can't be like Clayton, You're terrible that we just can't.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: But to finish this, I also have never seen a
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: lead respond, at least in my memory. There might have
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: been one, but like we're talking about this scenario. Yeah,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: with the this was the standard. This is what your
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: community came to me, this is how I've hurt you,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: or this is where you're hurt right now. And as
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: a result, like I'm going to make sure you feel
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: like you're in the wrong for feelings. For Susie, you
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: feeling this way. That's where this whole thing went sideways.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: And it just kept going and going and going. And
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: what was sad was how she was responding to it.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Like I felt so bad for her because like she's
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: trying to like fix things. She's saying like I'm sorry.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Even she's like I'm kind of apologizing and I'm like, girl, no,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm like I understand. You know, she's on camera.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I'm sure she's gonna watched this back. I'm sure she immediate. Actually,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: it's not even watching this back, Like she probably got
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: to the hotel room and it was like I should
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: have said this. I should have said that, right, And
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: I just feel so bad that in that moment she
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: felt like she had something to apologize for. Well, and
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: you know, like you just said, you just laid it
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: up perfectly. You know, she's in an environment where she
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: doesn't have a sound support system around her. Um. She
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the ability to walk away from the table
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: and call up a friend and be like, this is
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: what my boyfriend is telling me right now, and this
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: is how I'm feeling, and this is what I told him.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Like she doesn't have that, and so she's kind of
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: on an island alone. And and as you mentioned, she's
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: on camera there is this guy who is the bachelor,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: right and like that hat carries like whatever kind of way,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: and she's trying to figure out if she's gonna marry
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: this dude or not. So like I'm sure she did,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: and especially after watching this episode, she's gonna be like
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: I wish I would have said this, and I wish
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: I would have said that, And I'm sure she's gonna
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: come out probably and say some stuff here publicly. But
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I felt that same way for her in the moment.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: It was like, you don't need to apologize for anything, Susie, Like,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: there is nothing in this moment you need to apologize for.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: You just communicated your feelings and what hurt you, and
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: in a good relationship with a good partner like that
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: is not received with defense, like it never is. If
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: if any relationship in my life that I would have
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: said to make make Jessica is a great example. If
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I could come here and said, hey, han, well you
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: said last night hurt me, and she would have teld
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: me where you're crazy for feeling her by that? No,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: like you know what she would do. She could let
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: me let me hear why, like tell me why that
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: hurt you, and then she would either say, hey, I'm sorry,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean it like that, or she would say
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: we just misunderstood each other and we would move on
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: with life. But she would never ever make me feel
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: crazy for feeling a certain way that's so wrong, especially
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: on a big topic like this. He like made him
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: felt the victim and think about like how egotistical that
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: whole thing was. It was like, oh, you you think
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: you didn't like a decision of mine, Well I am
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: gonna bring you want to like maybe break up with
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: me like this isn't working out for you, Well, I'm
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: gonna break up with you. I'm sending you home. This
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: is not working for us anymore. It's uh, yeah, it
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: was hard to watch, and uh, I'm glad that you
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: called me to talk about it after you saw it.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: You were you were very upset and very and I
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: told you I had to admit to you. I was like,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm glad you called because I was confused
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: watching it, like if my is this real life? Is
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: this real life? And like am I am I at
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: all on the same page as you? Actually, when I
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: watched this and go, this feels bad. Um, I had
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: to get I had to get some accountability. And we
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: both were like no, like it's a there's a reason
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: why we watched this, And then like it's hard to watch.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: It's hard to see, and it's unfortunate for Susie, and
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: it's unfortunate that you know this is gonna be such
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: a big storyline now. Uh really probably I would imagine
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: for the rest of the season. Um, because it's just
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: not a good look and it's it's not healthy for
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: anybody to have to witness. But maybe there's gonna be
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: a good conversation that come out of it. Maybe people
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: will be like, hey, do you see this, This is
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: not this is not the right thing to do, This
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: is not right the right way to communicate, And maybe
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: people will be better for it. I hope so. But
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: until then, it was really ugly. It was. It was
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: a really bad moment for the show and for our
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: current lead. It was and there's no other way to
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: put it. I don't think. I'm reading the quotes now
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm just seeing how many times she said like,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I feel awful, I feel I feel bad.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: And then she goes I can tell every ounce of
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: him that, in every ounce of him, he hates me,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: and I'm sorry for the pain that I caused him.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: And then he says, everything happens for a reason, and
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: I will move and this will help move my life forward. Um,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: I will find someone who will fight for me. I
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: thought she was that person. This was my biggest fear,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: the person that I love being gone wild absolutely world. Well, um,
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything else to say. We could
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: continue to exacerbate this and keep talking about it and
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: saying how hard it was to watch, how bad it
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: was to watch, how bad it was to be a
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: part of and um, how we feel for Susie And
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: you know, we obviously don't know what happens the rest
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: of the season, but we're obviously going to be um
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: talking about it here in the podcast. Um oh well,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: let's end with that. Then, what do you think, Ben is,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen after seeing this in the scenes
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: for the next episode. I think I think both of
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: them leave. Um, I don't think they're I mean I
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: think both of them leave. And I think both of
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: them leave because, um, yeah, because I'm sure he he
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: tells them about how he feels about both them. It
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: seems like he does it for both of them together,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: at least according to the teasers. I think it probably
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: confuses both of them. This is my This is all assumption,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: by the way, and I think they probably have a
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: similar reaction to as this as SUSY's. UM, and I'm
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: wondering now how he handles that. That was my that's
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: all complete assumption, but that I just think in short,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: they both leave, right, and that truly will be the
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: first time in Bachelor history that the bachelor is left
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: alone at the end of this because his all his
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: women left absolutely. Well, Well, Ashley h thanks talking through
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: this with with you know everybody listening to me. And
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: then Sierra, thanks for talking to Ashley and I both um,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: is that expression choogy of me? Um? No, that's good,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: that's a that's ah. She did she She's told us
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: a lot um. And also I thought, Seria give us
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: a good perspective into the minds and the thoughts of
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: the uh, the women, which gives more clarity to people
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: or to the really the whole season. I wish we
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: would have known that going in that hey there are
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: some women that just weren't into this thing. Um, it
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: would have made sense a lot more on why stuff
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: was happening the way it was. But well, that's a
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: big episode, but another episode of the almost famous podcast.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Please again, right in your thoughts your feelings on this
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: episode to us. Ashley and I both put up polls
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: on social media and Twitter. I've been reading them as
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: actually we're sitting here to keep up the date. Most
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: people don't want women tell all anymore. Yeah, I'd say
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I think I saw them. Both of ours was about
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: mine to Yeah, we're not into it anymore. I think
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: just probably because it's it just didn't seem healthy. Um,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: and it hasn't seemed healthy in a while. So with that,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: I've been Been, I've been Ashley Bad Guys followed the
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart Radio
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.