Latest / Executive Alliance Podcast / E19: Beyond the Seat at the Table with Tamla Olivier, CEO of BGE

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E19: Beyond the Seat at the Table with Tamla Olivier, CEO of BGE · Executive Alliance Podcast

• Rebecca Snyder: Welcome. I'm here today with Tamla Olive Olivier, who's the president and chief executive officer of Baltimore Gas and Electric. And BGE is Maryland's largest electric and natural gas utility, a subsidiary of Exelon Corporation. And in that role, she leads an organization responsible for more than 1.3 million electric and 700,000 natural gas customers across central Maryland. So it's a super big job. Her leadership journey has taken her from human resources and organizational development to the highest levels of business and operational leadership. Sh before becoming CEO of BGE in 2025, she was the COO of PEPCO. she held senior leadership positions at BGE, Constellation, and BGE Home. And earlier in career she worked with T-Row Price, United Defense, and Wells Fargo. So welcome to the program, Tamla. Tamla Olivier: Rebecca, thank you so much ha for having me. I'm excited to be here. This is a good way to start my Tuesday. Rebecca Snyder: Well, and it's a terrific way to get us all excited about Women of Excellence, which is coming up November tenth, and you're gonna be our featured speaker. one of the things that we were so excited about having you be our featured speaker is really your trajectory, your growth, and your commitment to women in this area. So we're definitely looking forward to that. I wanted to start really in in a little bit of your origin story. You started out in HR. sort of supporting the people who were running businesses. And now you are the head of you have a a large enterprise leadership organization. So tell me about when you first started to see yourself in a larger role and how that and and what that development was like. Tamla Olivier: Yeah, that that's a great question. I think you know, where I will start is I've always loved human resources. I originally thought I was gonna be an attorney and I had the opportunity to intern at a law firm and I had an opportunity to intern at American Express and HR and What made me happiest was the experience I had in the HR organization at American Express. So kind of took a a little bit of a detour from I'm absolutely gonna be an attorney to, hey, this HR thing is really appealing and intriguing. So 25 plus years of my career spent in HR, what I would say is, you know, you you kinda start as an individual contributor. And then you start getting, you know, additional responsibility. And there was a point in my career when I was at T R Price and I thought, hey, you know, maybe I could run the HR team for the rate retail organization at that time. And what happened was I think growing up This is sometimes something you see with women and people of color is that you are given guidance by mentors, your parents that say, put your head down, do good work, and good things will happen, right? Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: And that is part of the story. The second part of the story is you have got to advocate for yourself, and I wasn't having conversations with anyone telling them that I leadership role, I just said, I'm doing great work. They will know. Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: And then the VP that I reported into was leaving the organization and I am literally sitting back waiting for them to come tap me on the shoulder for this opportunity. They did not. They tapped a peer in Tampa on the shoulder for the opportunity and I'm thinking what just happened? So Rebecca Snyder: What did that feel like? I mean, d to be waiting for the tap and to have all those y all of your past mentors being like, just just work harder, they'll notice. What does that feel like on the inside? Tamla Olivier: it was like a punch to the gut because you you feel like you were working hard, you were delivering good work product, you were collaborative, you had built strong relationships, you partnered well, kind of horizontally and vertically. And so you're like, I'm doing all of the things. And so why is it that I didn't even get a look, right? And so when you start reflecting on that, in part it was because I wasn't advocating for myself. I worked with a woman here at constellation in Exelon and she was moving from HR into legal and one of the things she said to me as she was thinking about from legal into HR, she said she had watched something on a podcast that said if you are interested in broader roles you should tell five people in decision making seeds what your interest is Rebecca Snyder: Hmm. Tamla Olivier: and why you think you're ready to make that move. And when she said it I was like, Well, that's brilliant. And I you know, my question to her was, Well, who have you talked to? And and she had like gone down this path and ultimately she did move from legal into to HR. So I think the work hard piece, the build good relationships, the strong having solid work product, all of those things are important, but if you are not advocating for yourself, if you are not telling folks I am aspire to be a VP running For the retail organization, here are the things that I think I've done that have really shown that I'm ready for that opportunity. And then asking the question, where where might you see some gaps and how can I develop those gaps from the seat so that Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: when the role is available, I'm ready. I didn't do the advocacy piece. And I think that was a huge lesson learned. Now, fortunately, the person in Tampa turned the role down, so I did. get that opportunity but it was almost by default and you Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: never want your career your career development to happen by default you want to be driving the car at all times in the driver's seat and at that point I wasn't. Rebecca Snyder: Yeah. I it strikes me that you know, you talked about telling five leaders that, you know, this is where you want to that you want a larger role and then asking, but the way you asked, it wasn't that you said, I want this role over here. It felt like you asked more specific questions about how how can I be ready for that role. So could you tease out some of that nuance there for me? Tamla Olivier: Yeah, I think and and look, people are gonna do it in the way that feels comfortable to them. I think I have peers that would go in as you just kinda walk through and say, I want the V P of HR role running retail. That's not how I work. That would feel very uncomfortable for me. and so I had to do in a way that was, you know, needed to be comfortable for me. I had to kind of show like my body of work, my experiences. I am interested in moving into a broader role with more scope and scale. I want to be in a position where I'm developing a larger team. Hear the relationships I've built with the business that I would be supporting. this is why I think I'm ready for that next opportunity. And then there's a conversation around, you know, what are the things that you see that you think would kind of prepare me for that next level when that that opportunity becomes available. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: but I think just kind of letting aspirations be known and let's be clear for you to get sponsorship you still gotta show up you gotta perform your butt off Rebecca Snyder: Right. Tamla Olivier: and you gotta handle your business because you're not gonna get a look if you're not doing that first and foremost but once you get the first and foremost now how do you take it to the next level through advocacy self-advocacy Rebecca Snyder: Mm. So y I wanna actually go back to sort of that journey into HR. What was did you there was there a point in your internship at A in HR at American Express where you're like, this is for me because you had wanted to be an attorney and what kind of law did you want to practice? Tamla Olivier: Rebecca, I wanted to be an attorney for the mafia. Rebecca Snyder: I love that. Why? Tamla Olivier: you know why and I tell this story and people are like you're just odd, but the consigliary was the voice of reason and the mob ball didn't really listen to anyone else but the consigliary. So they Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: were that respected voice, they were unemotional, they had a calm head, they advised based on facts and information and not on emotion, and they kind of were this calming force. And those things were appealing to me. And they didn't have to carry a weapon. Rebecca Snyder: Do you feel like you are the consigliary? I mean, in some ways that's a great description of a HR person or or an executive in some ways. Tamla Olivier: Yeah, and I I think I saw the similarities without the guns, in that HR organization and really being able to help drive strategy, help determine how you wanna develop the next talented leaders in the organization. inform how the business was being approached. And at that time HR was evolving from being a personnel organization, kind of an order taker. I'll call you when I need you to I want you to be part of the strategy. So it was also just a pretty interesting kind of transformational time from personnel into really being true business partners. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. And when you speak, it it feels like there's this really sort of intellectual excitement about that strategy and putting all the pieces in place. But HR is i you know, you're dealing with people. So how do you balance sort of the emotion and the fact that people bring their messy business to work with that strategy and putting all the the pieces in place? Tamla Olivier: Yeah, I think you gotta start baseline, we're human and we all got our stuff, right? And our stuff may show up differently from day to day, but we all have our stuff, whether it's personally, professionally, and so baseline you gotta start with treating people like they're humans, and recognizing that when we walk into the door of our workplace, of our organization, we're not leaving who we are at the front. front door. Right. Now I know there are probably points in time where I maybe didn't feel like I could full fully bring my like full self into the front door of the you know my employer. and you know that evolved over time, but just recognizing that you gotta start with fundamentally human being, they're bringing Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: all these things with them, but they're all these things that make them great that make them unique, that make them really put them in a position to add a different type of value to the organization than maybe what we had two days ago, 10 weeks ago. And so you get excited about, gosh, people are bringing all of these experiences, expertise, knowledge into the door each and every day. And how do we optimize that? And so Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: it's almost like putting a puzzle together. And Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: some days you were putting a puzzle together that was all white and no edges. And some days, no, we we know that this picture has edges and it has various colors that help you put it together more easily. But I would say each day was different. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: each individual was different. I think you know you can't treat people as like you got a tree farm and you water the tree the same and you give this tree the same amount of light because that's not and I see you got a lot of plans going, so you are an expert at this. but each each of your plants requires a different level of care, a Rebecca Snyder: Right. Tamla Olivier: different amount of water, and so you can't do like a cut and paste and treat every single person the same and kind of figuring that out and unlocking the thing that's gonna motivate them, the thing that's gonna drive them, the thing that's gonna make them kind of be their best selves, live in their best potential in their role. and contributing at the highest level it it was like a little bit of a puzzle. I like puzzles. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. and it sounds super it sounds very interesting. I kind of want to though go back to when you felt you couldn't bring your full self to your workplace. What prevented you from doing that? Tamla Olivier: You know, what I would say, one younger in my career, two going into I started in manufacturing at Westinghouse Rebecca Snyder: Yeah. Tamla Olivier: and you know, moved into organizations where one, there were no leaders that looked like me. worked primarily with white men who 50 plus years old, and what it appeared like was you had to kind of fit into a very specific mold to be successful in that organization. now that may or may not have been the case, but that was my experience, and so If you know the folks who look like they were in leadership roles look like they were highly successful, you know, how do they show up in meetings? How do they present ideas? Like, you know, you're taking notes. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: Even if their how is not kind of my how, you almost start mimicking those behaviors versus kind of saying, no, I'm gonna bring my how. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: also be highly effective is just different. and I would say you know back then you you probably are just learning and And the self-talk is probably really, really loud when you're, you know, just getting out of school. We're able to kind of dampen the self-talk now. But Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: back then the self-talk was really loud. Like, can you do this job? Should you be here? Are you smart enough? Are you bright enough? Are you good enough? And so kind of the safe bet was to mimic what you saw. Rebecca Snyder: Yeah. Does that relate at all to your mentors and and family members telling you to kind of just put your head down and work hard? Is was that a is there a relationship there of just like kinda get through it? Tamla Olivier: Yeah, I think you I think there you could tie that thread together. I think You know, I never dad say go in there and make a bunch of noise, right? Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: now I had them clearly saying you can be anything you you wanna be but the how was you work hard and you have strong work ethic and you get to work on time and do something you give it 150 percent and for you ma'am you gotta give it 200 because you're a black woman and so that that does shape kind of your mode of operation yeah so I I think you could definitely tie those threads together Rebecca Snyder: Yeah. It that feels from the outside like a lot of pressure to, you know, do it all, to take the notes, to be kind of accountable to all of those people. Did you feel those pressures or was that am I editorializing? Tamla Olivier: No, no. No. Definitely a lot of pressure. I mean, you know, even today, you know, you work hard, you dig in, you sacrifice, you do all the things, and then you get to whatever the role is. but for me, I feel like I have to prove that I deserve to be in the seat every single day. Like I don't get a day off. I don't Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: get to simply do my job. I have to prove each and every day that I deserve to be in the seat, that the seat wasn't given to me as a gift, that I earn this seat. Through hard work, through sacrifice, through showing up, through delivering at a very high level. but but the pressure of proving that I deserve to be in this seat every single day, that doesn't go away. It won't go away. Rebecca Snyder: So who are you proving it to? Because you were selec I mean, it's a big process, you were selected, you know, I I can't imagine that people are handing out jobs like yours like candy. So who are you proving it to? Tamla Olivier: Well, I mean, I'm proving it to my customer base, I'm proving it to my employees, I'm proving it to elected officials, I'm proving it to our regulators. there's a whole host of what I would call s key stakeholders, that are watching and I gotta prove that I should be in this role. I was the right choice for the role. especially in this moment. I have to prove that every single day. Rebecca Snyder: What does it cost you to prove that? It feels like that's a lot of background noise in in your head that maybe predecessors didn't always have. Tamla Olivier: I look, I I've recognized that some people get to move through life and they get to just move through life. I don't get to just move through life. Right? I don't get to just do the job because I'm carrying a 200-pound book bag that says I had a here once when I moved into the BG home job and and that that was a big transition moving from 25 plus years of HR into running a home services business Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: and he said to me Tamla a lot of people think that this was a diversity rotation Rebecca Snyder: What do you say to something like that? Because that's so Tamla Olivier: You want to know the words that immediately came to my mind? I think this is this is PG 13. Yeah, yeah. Rebecca Snyder: Yeah, and then did you have to stuff those down? Tamla Olivier: well one, it was disappointing for a couple of reasons. This gentleman was Latinx. and it was someone that we had partnered closely together for a really long time. so my question to him was And what did you say? What was your response to the people who shared those thoughts with you? Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: And there was silence. Right? Which meant he let it ride, andor Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: he was in agreement with it. And I said, that's disappointing. Because I think you know very well that this role was not a gift. I think you know very well what I'm capable of, what I've delivered, what I've contributed to this organization, and that I'm the right person for this role. And it isn't because I'm a woman, and it isn't because I'm black. It's because I earned this opportunity. Earned it. And Didn't he didn't have much to say, right? And I would say that that did kind of change the relationship a bit because I think Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: what I was learning in that that particular moment, it wasn't just people were saying this. And I I did believe him that folks were were sharing this with him, but he himself kind of had thoughts that maybe I didn't deserve to be in the seat. And so not everybody's gonna be excited about your success. Rebecca Snyder: Right. Tamla Olivier: and even, you know, folks that you consider strong allies, they won't always be happy for your success. So, you know, there are learnings at around every corner is what I would say. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Well, and that just feels like such a stop short moment. And I that, you know, that kind of recalibrates everything you think about a relationship, but yet you're still working with that person, you know, on a regular basis. I wanted earlier you had talked about sort of bringing your how, you know, your own ways of doing things. and I could you tell me about Maybe the first time or one of the first times you had the courage to bring your own how into the mix and what that looked like. Tamla Olivier: Mm. Yeah, that is a really good question. I would say when I to the VP of HR role at T Row Price. like because that was a little bit of a punch in the gut, you know, I was I was secle sh second string pick. I knew that I Yes. Rebecca Snyder: Was this the Tampa situation? Okay. Tamla Olivier: I knew that I had to level up in a very different way, right? in fact the head of HR at the time told me this is we're gonna put you in the role in an intern capacity and it's your role to lose. Rebecca Snyder: those stakes are high. Tamla Olivier: And I'm like then and so that was like a double dare at that moment. I'm gonna Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: show you. and so I needed to really level up how I showed up with my with my team, how I showed up with the broader HR organization, and then how I showed up with my clients. And I set on the leadership team the head of retail and it wasn't a diverse team. it was all fellas, Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: which used to, so you know, not a not a big deal, but I knew that if I was gonna be sitting at that table, I needed to have a very strong and powerful voice at that table and not just be a bystander. And so I would say that is kind of when I felt like I was finding my wings, finding my voice, Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: and doing it the way that that worked for me. and look, let me be clear, that didn't mean I didn't need tweaks. I am very direct and for some people that lands very well. On some people that could feel a little abrasive. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And How do I balance it in a way where I can still feel like I'm being my authentic self, open, honest, and direct, but doing in a way that is not shutting people down, or making them feel like, did she just tell me to shut up without telling me to shut up? when she like scrunched her face up, is she saying that the thing that I just said was incredibly dumb? so I had to really kind of tweak. What does it mean to be your authentic self Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: and show up the way you want to show up in a way that is going to be effective and productive? Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And so, you know, you try some things and you're like, Well, that didn't work out too well, so let me try it a different way. and then also just getting feedback, you know, from my peers, the president of retail, sat down once and I was like, you know, how's it going? And he's like, it's going good and I said, No, no, no, specifically how am I doing in the role, any feedback? And what I found is sometimes men don't like to give women instructive feedback because they if if their daughter cries when they give feedback they don't want to make me cry. if their wife starts teeing off on them when they give their wife feedback they don't want me to tee off on them. So I just won't give the feedback. no no it's good. And I was like look feedback is a gift. Like I can't get better and improve if you're not giving me direct feedback. And he thought for a moment. I said I'm not gonna cry and he said You would never win a poker. And I said, my, say more. And he said, you know, I I watch in my leadership meetings, you don't suffer fools well. And when people ask questions that might not be the brightest question, your face basically is telling him them in that moment that was the dumbest question I've ever heard in life. And it shuts people down. And I was like, fair. I said, I don't play poker, but I get it. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: and so I reached out to a peer of mine that was on that team, the head of retail the services, and I said, Hey, got this feedback. have you observed this? And he's like, yeah, all the time. And Rebecca Snyder: Ha ha. Tamla Olivier: I'm like Like if I didn't ask the question, I like I wouldn't have gotten that feedback. Rebecca Snyder: And you're not looking at your face in the moment. Like I I don't have a great poker face either and I don't it's just such a part of me. And so like how do you was there when you got that feedback, were you thinking, that's not me? Like were you able to take it in or what made you go to someone else to ask, I guess is what I'm trying to say? Tamla Olivier: kinda Yeah, when he said it, I was like, Yeah, I think I do do that. Like when he said it and he described it, I'm like, Yeah, that's fair. Fair feedback. And then, you know, I asked Scott and I'm like, Scott, like do you have you observed this? And he's like, yeah, all the time. And I'm like, dude, like how come you never said anything? He's like, I don't know, you never asked. And I'm like, fair? Rebecca Snyder: Interesting. Tamla Olivier: And so I said, Okay, so I'm gonna ask you to be my accountability partner in meetings. If I'm doing like the scrunch brow or the what the heck are you talking about look? I need you to like you gotta do a baseball sign or something. And One, I then had to pay closer attention to my facials. But then if we were in a meeting, especially if we were debating something that I was passionate about, he would do and I'd and then I'd ask more questions, talk less, ask more questions, make sure I was really listening to to gain understanding versus to be understood, talking to be understood. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: You know, and what I would say is I get it right eighty percent of the time now, but there's twenty percent where I default back to old behaviors Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: 'cause I'm human. Rebecca Snyder: Of course. So but I wanna kinda tease out because part of me is is feeling like yes, that feedback totally valid. And then the other part of me is thinking that you're in a very male dominated space and Tamla Olivier: Mm. Rebecca Snyder: how much of that is kind of asking women to be more conciliatory, being softer, modulating and making other people feel better? And I was there a sort of push pull for you on that? Tamla Olivier: I would say in this scenario, and I feel you have other examples that would speak directly to that, in this scenario, I don't think that was the ask. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: Because I was still able to like be direct in meetings. Like he didn't say, you know, you're very harsh in the way you deliver information. Or, you know, can you soften your tone? Or you got sharp elbows. They like to use that with us. We got sharp elbows. it wasn't any of that, it was just watch your facials. Rebecca Snyder: Okay. Tamla Olivier: And so I could still be direct, I could still be highly opinionated, I could. Still be passionate about an issue, but I needed to watch my facials and to ensure that I wasn't making faces or saying things that would suggest you're a numn, right? Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And so to me, it was not him trying to soften the tone, Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: it was just watch your doing facials. you know, I have had instances you know, a constellation where someone, you know, th they would say the calm down and someone immediately before me, a guy, again, this was another team where it was all men, a guy would say something and he'd be passionate and I mean even like projectile spit because they're so angry and mad and passionate and it wasn't hey John calm down. Like we understand you're frustrated. But with me it was like, Tamla calm down you're upset. Wait a minute, what just happened here? Rebecca Snyder: Well, yeah, what goes through your mind when somebody tells you I just feel like Tamla Olivier: Yeah, 'cause I'm like Rebecca Snyder: calm down is such an incendiary phrase. Tamla Olivier: And and and it incites for me like I wanna hurt you, right? Because you you literally are saying it's okay for John to be passionate about the topic that we're on. If I even show an ounce of passion, then it's I'm emotional. And what I'm saying on facts. So you know, one of the things, Chris Crane, who used to be the CEO here at Exelon, one of the things I loved about him, he has since passed, God bless his soul. we were in a meeting and we were doing business talent reviews, and this is kind of the room where it happens, right? Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And you think about who has traditionally been in that room. And how that determines who gets the top jobs, who gets the big projects, who gets to get the limelight on this really critical initiative, and who does not, who gets left behind. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: and we were in this room and a leader basically started Rebecca Snyder: Sure. Tamla Olivier: saying negative things about a senior leader who had just been promoted to an SVP role. She happened to be an African American female. And when she moved into this group, it was really to do a transformation in this group. The group was hemorrhaging mommy. And then there were also findings that the group was not following standards and protocol and some of which are federally mandated standards and protocol. And she called that team the task. It happened to be all men, her team, and immediately it became she's mean she doesn't understand the business. she's coming in here and trying to change everything, not fix Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: things, not correct things, not make things better, not ensure that you know we don't get fined federally because we're not following standards, procedures, and protocol. And we're we're in this meeting, and someone starts saying negative things about this leader. And I sat there for a minute and I'm like Like, okay, how are you going to frame this in a way that you were very unemotional in how you asked these questions? Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And I said, first of all, I want to stop us here for a minute. Let's take a pause, and let's talk about what this leader stepped into. Let's talk about the fact that that team had recently lost $10 million. Let's talk about the fact that that team, there were findings that would suggest if she hadn't jumped in, we could have been seen facing X hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. Let's start with the fact that there was no one really, there was no governance and oversight for this team, and that's why we had all these inherent risks that were not being mitigated. Let's get Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: grounded in those facts. And before I could even finish, Chris looks at me and he said, Tam, Is this one of the situations where if a guy is like goes into a new department, he makes all these changes, he ruffles feathers, and he gets things back on track? It's like he went in there, he was full of energy, he's like delivering at a high level. Look at his performance, he's he's our next president, blah blah blah. And then if a woman does it, he looks at me, he says, and then she called the B word. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And I said, Chris That's exactly what we're talking about right now. And he slammed his hand on the desk. He said, I am sick of this BS. He was like, I will not have it. We will not have double standards for women and men across this organization. She was brought in to do a job. She's doing the job. They don't like that they're being held accountable. They don't like that she's driving ownership. They don't like that she is correcting things that they've been doing wrong for years. That's what they don't like. And in turn, they don't like her. And you have fallen prey to it. And if it comes up again, he goes off. I didn't have to say Rebecca Snyder: Wow. Tamla Olivier: one more thing. so I have been fortunate to work with and for leaders, Calvin Butler, the the current CEO, same thing. when looking for people to go into roles, you know, he's not casting the net just to the six people that he feels most comfortable with. He's not Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: casting the net to the six people that, we routinely go to them for projects and initiatives. He's saying, what do I need in the role? And who are the folks who are best suited to do what I is required at this moment in this role. And he will cast that net. Why do and far and then you compete and then may the best woman, man, human win. and so I've been very fortunate in that way to work with leaders that feel that way, but I've also worked for leaders where that was just not that wasn't their model. And so you gotta figure that out. Rebecca Snyder: Right. Well and so I mean you're shaping the room now. In your current role you have this extraordinary opportunity. and you've had examples of of people who have shaped the room in more inclusive ways and people who have not. So what is your responsibility? What do you see as your responsibility? and I'm just thinking about the trajectory of, you know, you have worked in a lot of different spaces, you felt sometimes like you weren't able to bring your full self, you've you've been in situations where you had to really strongly self-advocate. What's your responsibility in the room to create the culture and the company that you feel proud of leading? Tamla Olivier: Well, my responsibility is to make sure everybody has a voice, right? To make sure everyone from all walks of life feel heard, valued, appreciated, and recognized, and to make sure that no one is intentionally or unintentionally being overlooked because they are soft-spoken and a processor. They come from a different background than most of the people in the room. They come with various experiences. That nobody else has around the table. And to make sure that they are fully seen and make sure they feel like they can bring their full selves Rebecca Snyder: Uh-huh. Tamla Olivier: to work, right? Conference room, and let's say there are 30, you know, seats around the table, and then there's like the peanut gallery seats. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And what I noticed is The guys, even very junior guys, would come in, they would get their seat at the table, and they were just like, boom, I'm here, I'm at the table. And then the women and some of the people of color wasn't a lot at this organization at that time, they would come in and they would They wouldn't even attempt if there were ten chairs left at the table. They would not even consider a seat at the table. They would sit in the peanut gallery seats. And I'm like, what in the heck is happening? Rebecca Snyder: But so meta. How do you get to take their seat at the table? Tamla Olivier: It was like it was like a social experiment 'cause like it probably Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: was happening, but then like in this moment I'm like, this is wildly bizarre. So there was one woman who is doing a is currently in a phenomenal role at this organization and she was like the best and brightest in the room. And she's gone to the peanut gallery seats. And I texted her and I said, if you don't move your tail to one of the seats at the table right now, I'm gonna call you out. And so she looks up and she's like, and I said, now. And she moves to the table, but like after that, she never went to the peanut gallery seats. And we had a conversation afterwards, and she's like, Well, I didn't know. I said, He knew. And Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: he is more junior to you. And but in his mind, he is supposed to be at that table where you feel like I gotta be invited to the table. He doesn't have to be invited. Rebecca Snyder: Right. Tamla Olivier: He's just gonna grab the chair, pull up, let's go. Rebecca Snyder: So how are you creating that organization of if because some of it feels very internal, like you know, the the worst no is the no you tell yourself in some ways. So that woman in particular was saying, I didn't think it was my place. So how do you what have you done to create the environment where she doesn't have that doubt? Tamla Olivier: Yeah, I one I make sure that the voices being heard is a huge thing because we have folks who will sit at a table and you will watch and everyone is talking over them, around them, and they try to get in and you c y and then I will say Sarah, you've been trying to get in here for a couple of minutes. Why why don't you share kind of how you're Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: thinking about this, what your perspective is on this? And then they would give a perspective, and like what may happen in a lot of rooms where you got a a lot of fellas, it would be dismissed like she didn't even just say something. And so part of it is when someone makes a point. Am I validating the point that they just made? Am I letting the room kind of move past the point as if the person did not say anything? Or am I timing out? You know Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: what, Sarah? That is an excellent point. One that we have not discussed this entire meeting, and I think we need to take a deeper dive into that point. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And three days later, we were going into another meeting, and she said. Pamela, I've been in this organization for 17 years. That is the first time that anyone has ever validated a comment I made in a meeting. That is heartbreaking to the point where you're like, say what now? Rebecca Snyder: I'm kind of surprised that she's even still there. I mean, I feel like that could drive a person out of an organization. Tamla Olivier: absolutely. Absolutely. she she is a she's a strong one, probably one of my most brilliant leaders. but you know sometimes we take what we're given versus demanding what we want and what we need. and I Say, you know, is you s have that shift in confidence, you do kind of dig in and lean in on asking for what you want to get what you need, versus just taking leftovers or taking the handouts that yeah, I don't need this anymore. You you can take that, versus no, no, I want the new chair. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: And I want the new chair that's sitting around the big table. I don't want to be at the kids' table at Thanksgiving anymore. Rebecca Snyder: Right. Tamla Olivier: But but that takes one seeing people who look like you in large roles. And senior roles and basically knowing that you can get there, that is a possibility, and then having people really take the time to understand what is important to you, and which means you gotta communicate it, you gotta understand Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: what's important to you, and it's also just not accepting BS and Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: and calling it out, and you can call it out in a way that feels comfortable to you. Sometimes it's worth calling it out. In the meeting, in the moment when it happens in front of the group, and sometimes it's pulling the person aside to say, let let me tell you how that landed on me when you made this comment in the meeting. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: but just not accepting everything. Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: We don't have to accept crap, we just don't. Rebecca Snyder: I wanted to talk to you about the role of women on boards because you sit on Century Aluminum and I'm I was comparing contrasting. I think Century Aluminum has maybe seven board members, two women, you are the only woman of color there, Tamla Olivier: Mm-hmm. Rebecca Snyder: and contrasting that with the BGE board, which is really very diverse. I think it's almost fifty-fifty or maybe like in the forties, forty percent. and one of the reasons Executive Alliance is so focused on women on corporate boards is that sets the tone because they provide corporate governance and and the tone for how organizations move through the world. And when we look at how women take their power at the highest levels of leadership, if you don't have corporate board service, you Tamla Olivier: Mm. Rebecca Snyder: know, it it all trickles down. And so what is your experience being sort of maybe a lone voice on Century Aluminum in some ways? And How is leadership women's leadership different with your experience on those two boards? And I recognize you don't sit on the BGE board, but you do interact. Tamla Olivier: no, I sit on the board. Yep. Rebecca Snyder: my mistake, so sorry. Tamla Olivier: you know, that is an excellent question. When I got approached by that board, by that organization, I first, you know, you go to the website, right, and you look at the executive leadership team and you look at the board, and I was like, my. Rebecca Snyder: It's very stark. Tamla Olivier: my. And then Jenny Bush, who is absolutely first of all, let me just say, I'm in love with that board. I'm in love with that board. But when when I looked, I was just like, ew. And Jenny probably joined the board maybe only a year and a half before me. So she was relatively new to the board as well. And I think she might have been like the first woman to serve on the Century Board. They have Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: longstanding board members. and I I talked to Calvin and I said, Calvin, I don't know, I've been approached, but like woman has only been there for a year and a half. They don't have any people of color. They don't have any people of color in their senior leadership ranks. Like is I don't know. And he said, Well have you talked to them? And I was like, I don't know that I wanna talk to them. And he's like, Well, I don't think That's the right way to approach it. I think you talk to them. And if you feel like the new CEO and the board is interested in seeing change and morphing and transforming and evolving, you can be part of that, right? And I was like, okay. And I met with the CEO, Jenny Bush, and then all of the board members are with the exception of the CEO, are from one is from Norway, one is from the UK, two are from South Africa, and the other one is from Australia. And so we're we're diverse in in Rebecca Snyder: That's interesting. Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: very different ways. And I met with one of the guys who is South African and then Jenny Bush and then Jesse Gary, the CEO, and it was amazing because one, they are just all br brilliant, but also just good human beings to the core. And then when I had a one-off with the CEO, we had a very honest conversation about how I was feeling as I was thinking about even talking to the board, and he said Said, Tamla, it is I recognize this is an area that we need to really evolve and grow in. Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: they were interested in me because I had the energy background, and aluminum is so highly reliant on energy, it's everything. Rebecca Snyder: Right. Tamla Olivier: and he said, you know, and I'm hoping that you know you and the broader board will partner with me as we try to transform. Rebecca Snyder: Hmm. Tamla Olivier: And he he was honest about, you know, what was working, what wasn't working. And so I was like, okay, like I could be on this board and start really shifting how we're thinking about bringing Rebecca Snyder: Okay. Tamla Olivier: different experiences to the table. And we we've been able to do that. are we where we want to be a hundred percent? Absolutely not. But is the team committed to continue Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: down that path of evolution? Yes. Rebecca Snyder: And so do you feel like as the only woman of color on that board compared to the BGE board, do you feel like you have to do more education? Like is it easier on the BGE board because there's already that built in diversity? Tamla Olivier: Yeah, the BGE board, I to a person, when I tell you I'm in love with every one of my board members, like 100% crushing on each one of them. I mean they are supportive. I get call I get cards like this from my board members. They text, hey Tam, checking in, making sh how's your week going? They You know, how do you need me to support you on this issue or that issue? When I say they lean in a hundred percent, sleeves rolled up, they are in the ditch with us, fighting the good fight every single day. Every Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tamla Olivier: day. and so they're just I don't know, it's a dream board. PHI's board, same thing, dream board. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: and like I said, Century, I I love I love the people, I love the humans, love where we're Heading, love that board. So the conversations on those two boards are very different Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tamla Olivier: in terms of the things that we need to focus on versus the things that we've been focusing on for 10-15 years. Yeah. Rebecca Snyder: Right. Yeah, in the beginning. And as we wrap up, you know, we've talked a lot about your early mentors and sort of some of the things you've had to unlearn and and and do differently to achieve what you've achieved. What would you tell your younger self? Tamla Olivier: Mm. Career. Always be in the driver's seat. don't turn the wheel over to other people because they may crash you into a wall or take you in the direction that you are not interested in moving in. use your voice sooner and often. Rebecca Snyder: Hm. Tamla Olivier: Ask for what you want to get what you need sooner than later. And know that you deserve every to be in every room you enter and to be at every table you sit at. Rebecca Snyder: wonderful, wonderful words. Thank you so much, Tamla, for spending time with me today. I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you and Shanetta Griffin at Women of Excellence. Tamla Olivier: Rebecca, thank you. This was great. I feel like you and I could probably talk for two days straight. Rebecca Snyder: Agree, agree. So we'll we'll have to do it again sometime, but thank you so much for your time today. Tamla Olivier: Thank you. Have a good one. Appreciate you. Rebecca Snyder: Eating.