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Review of Freddy vs Jason (2003) · The Recess Bell

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This production is brought to you by the Reesa Spell. Hey everybody, my
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name is Justin Greenberg, and this is Film Real. Today we're going to
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be doing something a bit different. I got my two close friends, Antonio
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and Addison joining me on today's program, and we are going to be discussing
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a masterpiece of a film. Freddie versus Jason. Welcome to My Nightmare.
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We're let's say awake, orse Flee. The film franchises have both had their
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highs and they're very, very lows. And in the summer of two thousand
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and three, they decided, why don't we combine these two failing franchises and
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see if we could get some more money, because that's what it's all about.
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So about the money. It's a film that was many years in the
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making and finally, like I mentioned, got released in two thousand and three.
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So what is your personal history with the film? Freddie versus Jason.
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I'll start with you Antonio. Okay, So my dad has always been into
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horror. He has like several tattoos from like autographs from like Robert England,
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and you know, he's been into movies. He's a big pop culture guy.
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He's always loved movies growing up, and he's the one that got me
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into movies. And you know, he started me off with Child's Play and
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Chucky and then he moved on to his favorite franchise, which is Nightmare on
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Elm Street. And you know, I always saw this case, which I
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see in front of me, like the silver Freddie and Jason on the cover,
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and I'm like, whoa, they had a movie together. He goes
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like, yup, but you got to see all the other ones first,
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And honestly, that's not true for this movie. You don't need to see
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other ones. But we'll get into that later. But yeah, that's how
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I got into this movie. And Addison, your history. You know,
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you and Antonio relatively close to the same age. I'm a bit older,
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and by a bit older, over a decade older, so I'm very old.
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I did see this one in theaters, and Addison, you were a
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little too young to see it in theaters, so yeah, it was your
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history with this film. Yeah, well, I was three years old when
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this actually hit the theater, so I saw this a few years later when
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I was in second grade. I became obsessed with Friday the Thirteenth after I
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saw a Jason costume in Marshalls, and my mom bought it for me,
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and I had no idea who this guy was. But then once I did,
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I went the Blockbuster and rented the entire franchise. That's an interesting story.
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I definitely didn't hear it before because we'd never recorded this part before.
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So I'm glad I take a Yeah, Marshalls, Is that still around anymore?
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Oh? Are you kidding me? It's one of the most hottest places
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right now. You see it on TikTok Instagram, all the teacher max stores.
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Is it that it is? I'm serious, No way. The girls
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love it. The girls love it, well, the girls I don't think
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love the Freddy versus Jason's films. You know, I specifically remember being in
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theaters with a group of my friends, you know, some girls, some
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guys, and I just remember the disdained and discussed. You know, when
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a trailer goes off and then it ends, and then people are like,
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I want to see that. Oh, I can't wait to see that.
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I just remember women all being like, this looks terrible. I don't think
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this really plays. Were any girls really into these films the whole? You
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know, the entire series, not talking about Freddy versus Jason. You know,
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it's kind of funny you say that, because like I actually like forced
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my girlfriend to watch this last night for like this what we're gonna record today,
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And she was like, wait, what is going on right now?
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And I'm like, just wait, He'll explain it five times. He explains
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the plot five time, Yeah, Freddy. So Freddy explains it five times.
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It really helps her understand the problem. But being first stop and she
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was like, was this a big deal? I'm like, you have no
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idea how crazy this movie was. She was like, but it's really bad.
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I'm like, exactly, it's kind of like why we're talking about it
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today. It's it's it's insane how of this movie is when it's probably the
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worst from either character in the franchise. I don't know about that. We'll
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we'll get into, you know, where this ranks and the Freddie and Jason
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series. But as far as the popularity, yeah, this was the number
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one movie for two weeks when it came out. It grossed over one hundred
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and fifteen million dollars just on a thirty million dollar production budget, which is
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really shocking that they never made a sequel to this, and again we got
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a lot of things that we got to cover. There were potential sequels that
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were going to be made. But it's really because Hollywood if anything's successful,
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especially nowadays, but even back then, if it was successful, they were
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going to make a sequel for it. So I'm shocked as to how this
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didn't get a Freddie Versus Jason two. But back to the plot. Let's
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let's go there with the plot, because you mentioned Freddy sort of talks to
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himself again. When I saw this movie in theaters, I remember distinctly.
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There are certain things that you remember distinctly when seeing a movie in theater,
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So I remember getting into this theater. First of all, that was always
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a t when you were under seventeen. How do you finagle yourself to get
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into a theater? Now, at my local theater in lynn Brook, they
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didn't care. They didn't give a rats ask, so they never checked.
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If we looked over twelve, we were going to get into an R rated
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movie. But definitely what we didn't discuss because we never recorded this before,
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But I would like to tell you a story of when I went to go
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see this movie. I sat next to a parent and their two kids,
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and anytime there was nudity shown on screen, the parent the father forced the
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kids to cover the eyes up because they didn't want their kid to see any
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titties. And you can say titties on the show, folks, because this
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is gonna be podcasted's o oh wow, does anybody have a curse that they
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want to say? Actually, so you know what, I'll say one word
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poopy that's it. Yeah, yeah, I like that. It's good.
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There we go, Adison, You got titties or poopies in it? This
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one's been building up, asshole. Oh yes, so yeah, it's funny
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like that. The parent was fine with the vulgarity because they're soly cursing.
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There's people getting their heads twisted around and people getting burned alive. That's fine,
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that's fine. Little Timmy can watch that. But god forbid a nipples
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shown. Little Timmy and his friend have to cover up the little eyes.
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So that's one thing I remember when seeing the movie. But I also remember
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going back to the plot and back to Freddy sort of giving these soliloquies and
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just speaking I do all their kids. I remember, I'm not strong enough.
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I remember distinctly the guy behind me going who is he talking to?
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And I just remember laughing my ass off, thinking about, yeah, what
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is he talking to you? Why is he talking to himself? It's not
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strong enough yet. I will be soon enough. Until then, I'll let
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Jason have some fun. The basic plot of this movie. Maybe you guys
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could do this a little bit better, because Antonio, you just watched it
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last time. Oh man, I have so many Yeah, it was basically
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the sum up the movie, right, and I wrote it down because I
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was very confused my first watch. So I'm happy I watched the Last Night.
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So so basically, after fifteen years of script writing, actual Freddy verus
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Jason, we was finally, you know, he's already in hell. He's
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dead, So Freddie's also in hell, right, because he also dies in
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Freddie. That's the last one before you know, West Crimson Nightmare. That's
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a whole nother thing again Freddy and actual Freddy Ver. Jason finally agers to
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bring back on Freddy's names. You're gonna basically, so he brings back Jason
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to go to Elm Street and kill off some teenagers to bring back Freddy's name.
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He's gonna basically use Jason uh to bring back himself. Yesse, so
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Freddy has to use use Jason Vore. He's a sort of like, uh,
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like an avatar to like to go into the real world and and get
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the fear back, so then Freddy can sort of come back and you know,
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enter kids dreams. I don't know if this has anything to do with
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any of those previous movies though, because you mentioned you know, Freddy's think.
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I really I don't think the writers really we're thinking too hard about that
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because I because then there's Jason X. Where does that stand? So well,
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Jason X is about the future. That's why they made Jason X in
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two thousand and one, because they were like, in case this movie actually
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ever does happen Freddy versus Jason, Okay, you know what I mean that
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they will have like something to cover up with, because you know, Jason
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X happens in twenty ninety six the future, which isn't even that far away,
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which is crazy to think about, but also like, I still don't
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think it has any I think continuity in any of these films doesn't really exist
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because think about like the ages of like Tommy Jarvis is like five years old
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in one movie, ed. He's a forty year old man and he's a
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different actor, so I don't think they were going that far. I think
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you mentioned earlier at the beginning of the show if this was the second time
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we were recording. I don't know what time it was, but you mentioned
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how you don't really need to have seen any of the other, you know,
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Freddy or Jason movies to really get a feel of this movie. It's
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just sort of in its own world. That's how I always thought of it.
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Well, and do give Freddy that highlight package like a WrestleMania promo in
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the beginning of the they do, Dude, Jason doesn't get the treatment because
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Paramount Pictures didn't want to give up any uh content. That's the thing.
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So Paramount the whole Friday of the Thirteenth Rights has always been something that was,
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you know, up for debate. Who owns it is Sean Cunningham,
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you know, Paramount new Line owned it for a bit. I think Lebron
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James actually now I heard about that, yeah, so uh yeah, So
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they couldn't use any past Jason. The only ones they could have used were
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Jason X and Jason Goes to Hell. They can't use Jason X because it
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would have made sense exactly. And there was supposed Freddy Rusus Jason got tossed
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up heavily in the nineties and it almost was made. It was going to
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take place in Hell, and they decided to just pull the plug on that
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one. I heard about this idea. It was going to be like they're
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both trying to get the devils, like, you know, like who like
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they don't want to Douvile's attention, so who was the worst? They're trying
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to fuck the devil? Basically, it seemed like to me. So it
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was like it was like a play for points kind of. So you mentioned
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the eighties, that was when the heyday of the you know, I think
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Freddy probably hit its peak maybe the third or fourth movie Jason, maybe Jason
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six. It was probably probably my favorite as far as popularity, though they
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kept on declining pretty much after that. Do you think this movie would have
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worked better in the eighties, because I certainly think it would have. I
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think it's not even a question like it's that's what probably would have made it
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have a you know, a two, a sequel, or like even a
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third movie. Who knows, because it's just that's when I would under prime
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that's everyone knew about them. Yeah, they're sort of like, you know,
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not thought of the movie genre. The horror genre rather changed so immenseally
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another you know, thanks to Wes Craven, the guy who created you know,
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Freddy directed that original one, when he created Scream and directed that film.
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In the mid nineties, that whole monster Freddie Jason slasher film genre sort
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of went away. Horror films got a lot more cerebral, a lot smarter,
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you know, you got films like the Blair Witch Project in the sixth
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sense. And to go back to something in the eighties, and again,
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I like this movie. I know it's a bad movie, but I don't
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know if it felt like in line with what Hollywood was really doing at that
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time. I think, you know, we talked about Jason X for a
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little bit there. I think that kind of set this movie a little bit
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back, because Jason X came out so soon before Fravver's Jason, and you
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know, Jason X took an attempt of like, Okay, so we know
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what horror movies are like nowadays, Let's make it more sarcastic, Let's make
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it more obviously funny, like, let's not take us ourselves so seriously and
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so like that's what Jason next did, try to like, you know,
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be the new age and keep Jason around, and then Fraver's Jason took two
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steps back, like, no, no, we have to keep it the
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way they were. Do you know, do you think that this movie could
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work with a more serious tone, because this is this is one of those
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movies that I look at as a comedy, especially the Freddie stuff. Freddy
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in that first Nightmare film, though, was a serious character. He had
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a few one liners there, but he was shot very seriously, you know,
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a lot of shadows and very creepy imagery. Then by by the time
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he's like you know in part three and he's a marionette and he's doing video
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game stuff and they're super Freddie and all that stupid stuff. Yeah, yeah,
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yeah, yeah, it becomes you know, a comedy. Do you
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think that this movie could have been better if it took a more serious tone
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or do you think the the over the topness of it is what makes it
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special? I think the over the topness only because every documentary you watch about
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getting this movie made, no one was taking it seriously. There was one
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script where the teens picked up Jason and like befriended him and like took him
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all the way over to Ohio to face Freddy. Thank god that didn't get
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made. Yeah, and speaking of the teams, I think every character in
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this movie not named Freddie or Jason is pretty uninteresting. No one really.
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Oh man, that's the worst part of this movie. I don't mean to
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cut you off, but yeah, that's how I feel. Like. Yeah,
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you know, take like the characters from Scream for instance, Yeah,
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another West Craven creation. You care about those characters. I mean, I'm
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fully invested. I don't want to see dewe We die. I don't want
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to see Sydney die. But with this movie, you're kind of rooting for
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the villains to kill the kids. I don't know if that's the right approach
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you want with a horror movie. You know what's annoying is that the kids
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basically like their whole thing is like, oh, we we're rooting for Jason
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because you know, Freddie killed my mother, which is the main protagonist.
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I haven't forgot her name. I just want her last night, Laurie is
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there her name? So Laurie's mom gets killed by by Freddie and that's why
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all the kids are like, oh, no, we're rooting for Jason because
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Freddie killed you know your mom. That's crazy, man, that's deep.
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And then yeah, we're supposed to have sympathy for Jason. They try and
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go the route of him being tormented as a kid. He's yeah, he's
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being controlled by Freddy, so therefore, like, oh, it's not his
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fault. What the one interesting character they did have they killed too soon?
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That guy Mark, the one whose brother, Yeah, the one, the
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one. Actually it's Freddy's only killing the entire movie. Yeah, yeah,
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that is true. He's the only one who actually had an arc with Freddy,
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along with Laurie. And then they just kind of stepped back from that,
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like, yeah, we gotta get these guys fighting already. The hype
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for this movie, I felt was there. I remember the trailers as I
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was talking about earlier, and then they had this large press conference in Vegas
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with Michael Buffer, you know, the boxing announcer, and Freddie and j
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I mean, you look at the money they made, and obviously it was
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very well promoted, so that that isn't the issue here. It was just
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like iconic event. They did a good job promoting it. Even though it's
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been ten years since the actual time that Jason joined New Line, they still
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found a way to get everybody in those seats. Was funny seeing Jason just
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not answer a single question, just stared at everybody. There was also a
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time when Jason was on The Arsenio Hall Show, which was a talk show
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in the eighties and nineties, and I think, so, yeah, and
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Jason's getting interviewed and he doesn't say anything because he doesn't speak. And that
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brings me to this point. And this might be controversial because Addison, you
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said you're a Jason guy. But for me, I'm team Freddy because I
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think there's the character is deeper. You know they're there. If you have
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a character that doesn't talk, it's interesting to an extent. But when you
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have nine, ten eleven movies and there's no growth of that character, it
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gets a little boring. So I've always been more of a Freddy guys,
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the charismatic dude with the one liners. I'm team Freddy. I don't know
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where you guys stand. Nice now, I kind of agree with you on
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that. When I like Jason, I like him from the first four Films,
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Part six and Hotter's work is great, but Jason just kind of becomes
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like dumb. I mean, that's what I hate his portrayal in Freddy versus
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Jason. It's kind of like Jason's just there like a lot of like he's
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confused. He gets his fingers cut off, he's looking at them like an
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idiot. Oh yeah, it's funny you bring up kan Older that the guy
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that's the guy that played Jayson Takes Manhattan and Jason X like the last two
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movies before this one. I think he was great as Jason. He was
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very upset and I'd be casted in this movie, and I think he had
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done a great job. But they're looking for a different approach. I forgot
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a point a thing in here. But yeah, Freddie or Jason, Freddie
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or Jason. I go Freddie. I go Freddie. Yeah for sure.
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Well not even because just my you know, I have a big bias because
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my dad, you know, big fan of Freddie, and so I grew
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up a fan of Freddie. But also he's just the scariest. He's the
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only one that gave me nightmares. In my opinion, I feel, I
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mean, I sympathize with Jason though, because I don't think he just knows
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better. He watched his mom get murdered and then he just kind of became
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as well, this is whoever comes to this. He's not like he's gonna
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unlessen it's this movie. He's not leaving Crystal Lake. Whoever just comes there.
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That's so it is. Yeah, he's sort of just like protecting his
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own territory. Yeah, he's just there to stay away. So, you
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know, we sort of touched upon the plot, but the you know,
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the main thing is, you know, Freddie finally is able to enter dreams
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because of Jason's kills, and then eventually Laurie takes Freddie out of the dream
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world where we have this confrontation between Freddie and Jason at Camp Crystal Lake.
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And I too like a lot of the shots in this fight. Yes,
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they have like fire in the background. It's very pro wrestling. Metal music
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is playing, even the standoff, you know how you know before WrestleMania they'll
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have the Monday Night Raw and the guys are face to face that sort of
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standing there. Yeah, they have those moments like okay, this is a
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big fight feel and uh, the fight choreography I thought was good. I
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never really thought of Freddy as a fighter though, but they sort of give
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him like a wolverine sort of approach. He's he's climbing on the back of
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Jason. He's he's stabbing at the gore. Is there? He gives him
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an elbow. Yeah, I was gonna mention that, thank you, as
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like at the very beginning of the of the fight. In that scene you're
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talking about he gave him like an elbow, drop a knee to the body.
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I'm like, oh my god Freyo's moy Thai. Now, like I
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don't know what happened. What wasn't ree mysterio in this movie? Stereo was
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a part of the stunt crew. Has that been confirmed? Was like allegedly.
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I read it on Wikipedia. It must be true, it must be
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true. That's gotta be true. Showed Robert Englin had to drop an elbow.
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So they get into this giant fight. There's like air canisters go and
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flying at Jason. Jason is so overpowering in the scene though, because Freddy
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is in the real world, he can't fight in the dream world anymore.
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So he's he seems to be outmatched, but he's able to outwit. You
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know, he's a smarter character than Jason, and they sort of go toe
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to toe blow for blow. All the kids eventually end up dying. Besides
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Laurie and Will, who are you know, the two good looking people?
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And I always want to make a movie a horror movie. I actually talked
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about this in one of the earlier episodes. I think I heard say,
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why not make this movie where like the girl that you think is going to
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be the main lead dies at the end, and then just like the fucking
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Nerd is the only one to survive. Hollywood does not have the guts to
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make that movie. But why does every horror movie have to be so predictable?
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Okay, that's the hot movie star. You know they're surviving. Why
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not take a risk and do something different? I mean in that movie Cavin
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the Woods that came out, which was a whole joke about the horror genre
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in general that they did that they made the Nerd really I never saw it.
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Wow, you gotta see that movie. But basically they do exactly what
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you just said. But it's all one big like joke about what the hard
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genre is. So it they didn't even take it seriously, But after that
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movie, I thought I was gonna see a lot more of like, oh,
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may the nerd will win? May the nerd will be the last person
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left? And they did not do it. They just kept the same trope,
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and it's kind of just getting old. You know, it's twenty twenty
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four. Will we ever see the nerd win, or like the ugly person
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be the last person alive? Or even like a bad person, like why
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not have like the like the dad who's like a piece of shit, like
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beats his kid, like have them be the last survivor just be unexpected?
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Like where does that character go from there? If they were to make a
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sequel, maybe he could have a redemption arc. But I'm sick and tired
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of the same formula like bullshit. But speaking of formulaic billshit, we get
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this, you know, classic climactic battle between Freddie and Jason. It ends
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in a sort of debate as to who actually won. So you know Freddie
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is going to town at Jason chopping them up. Body p arts are getting
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torn off. I think Freddy's arm gets torn off, yes, and then
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you know they both get blown to Smithereens into camp, into the actual Crystal
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Lake, and then that leads to a not a post credit scene. I
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wonder if this would have been a post credit scene if this was in you
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know, the post Marvel world. But the final shot is Jason walking out
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of Crystal Lake, so everyone thinks Jason wins. He's holding Freddy's head,
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and then it cuts to Freddie's head winking. The eye winks, and I
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guess we're in Freddie's nightmare. Sort of left open, which again was just
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another reason why people thought there would be a sequel. There was no definitive
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okay, this person one? Would you have had a definitive winner? Were
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you happy with the outcome? I've heard people say what they should have done
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maybe in some theaters, or release a cut where Freddie wins and then other
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theaters, or release a cut where Jason wins. I think trying something different
20:55
like that could have been interesting. But were you satisfied with the climactic battle
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and the ending of the film. I feel as if though I was very
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satisfied, because like that's the whole point of these like big you know,
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horror people. They don't die. You know, there'll always be a next
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movie, you know, if the money allows it, and so like that's
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the whole idea here. I feel like, you know, Freddy winking at
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the end is like like definitely supposed to be like a hint, So there's
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gonna be a sequel. But even if there wasn't a sequel, and there
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isn't like there never was an equal it made sense to me. I'm like,
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these big, you know, iconic villains, they never die. Jason's
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immortal for a reason we never understand, and Freddy the same thing. He's
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actually already dead. So it just it just made sense to me the ending
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there. So I like the way it ended. Yeah, And I'm sure
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people probably took this movie kind of seriously as far as like the battle goes
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when it came out, Like, were people cheering in the theater during this?
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From what I remember, I don't remember any distinctive cheers. I think
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I think a lot of people that saw this movie knew what they were saying
21:48
was stupid. Okay, that's a consensus that I remember is just a lot
21:53
of teenagers being like this is really really dumb. Vially. Yeah, from
21:59
what I that makes me so sad because when I think about this movie in
22:02
theaters and I'm Glad I got to ask you about it, I would have
22:03
thought it's like, you know, a couple even two years ago or whoever
22:07
it was when the Spider movie came out came No, it wasn't like that.
22:11
No, not at all. Wow, Because, like I said,
22:14
the characters were not relevant in the two thousand and three world. When was
22:18
the last Freddy movie? I mean, when was the last Toy Maguire movie.
22:22
I felt like it was the same thing, you know, Yeah,
22:23
but that those movies have, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars,
22:30
millions of dollars those movies gross. Uh, and Spider Man was just more
22:33
of a relevant character. At the time of that Spider Man movie. Like
22:37
I said, the Freddy movies were all going downhill as far as box office
22:42
grows goes. It was just too much. I mean, they released how
22:45
many Jason movies in the eighties alone, man, seven or eight of them?
22:49
Yeah? Eight? Yeah, that's so much. I mean, what's
22:53
a movie today that comes out and you just think, oh my god,
22:56
another one. Everyone has that, like superhero fatigue. Imagine that just with
23:00
one singular character. Oh my, like they're making another one. I don't
23:03
think any of these movies were ever really, like I mentioned, revered as
23:07
far as like by critics go, but I think they were just like fun
23:11
date night movies. You know, you just sort of veg out and watch
23:15
the films. I do think there is depth though to that original Nightmare movie
23:18
and some of the Nightmare films, but as far as like the Jason films
23:22
go, I never really saw much depth or class for that matter, like
23:26
Halloween. That original Halloween. Okay, that's a classy classic film requires a
23:32
little intelligence, Yeah, a little more cerebra at least for one that's kind
23:36
of funny. The original Halloween. Yeah, you're at least the whole series
23:38
in general, at least series and movies find them so boring. I guess
23:41
I don't know really I like the original one. I don't really care for
23:45
any of the sequels that much. I know, Addison, you're a big
23:48
Halloween filming guy. Yeah, because if you really, if you take the
23:51
story more into it, because people who want like the I know a lot
23:53
of people today they hate watching like the old Halloweens. The graphics, I
23:57
don't know why. The gore, Yeah, the lack of gorey like you
24:03
understand, like the Halloween movies have a lot of depth as far as story
24:07
telling goes. I mean the Friday the thirteenth, When I do think about
24:08
it, it's always like people walking, Jason's there, and you can just
24:11
put like the old comic book thing like the pow Yeah anytime Batman then yeah,
24:18
yeah that. Speaking of of Michael Myers, would you like to have
24:22
seen other horror icons get thrown into this versus battle? I thought again,
24:27
I thought there would have been. They did Alien first, Predator I think
24:30
the next year in two thousand and four, and that was something that was
24:33
in the works for a while. You know in Predator too, you see
24:37
the Zeno morph the alien skull on the Predator ship. So that was something
24:41
that was planned for a decade, sort of like the seeds being planted and
24:45
Jason goes to Hell. And it took over a decade, and by the
24:48
time it got released, nobody give the rats ask about Predator or Alien.
24:52
So do you think, though, they could have done more with this versus
24:55
franchise? Maybe have you know a team up of Chucky and Freddy. I
24:59
think those two given one liners back and forth could be funny. Yeah,
25:03
I mean you kept mentioning ash from Evil Dead and listen. I like those
25:06
movies allowed the necromanswer. It's a great story. But I don't think of
25:08
him as like a slasher icon. I just think of him like it's I
25:11
don't even know how to call that. John. I don't see it as
25:14
a slasher. I see it more like as a just a weird movie about
25:17
the trees and the woods and then just demonic value. You know. So
25:21
I don't I'm not getting into that. But I do feel as if though,
25:23
like if I would have saw Chucky thrown in the mix, if I
25:26
would I saw Michael Myers, even though, like you know, I don't
25:29
think he's alike these like villains here, but I feel like those I would
25:33
have liked to see the Slashers, I mean, Leatherface. That's another good
25:34
one too. I feel like all those guys is a big royal rumble.
25:37
Why not just throw them in there, just see what happens. I guess
25:40
I think that like a part of why it's hard to do this sort of
25:42
stuff is because studios don't want their guy dying. First of all, the
25:47
rights issues, obviously they're all different companies and whatnot, but also they never
25:52
want their guy to die. So like when Gonzilla and King Kong always go
25:56
at it, it's like, well, you know, this guy doesn't win.
25:59
They they always team up at the end because they don't want their guy
26:03
to look weaker. Got to go over. Yeah, I think I think
26:07
you need to make a distinct like, Okay, this guy's winning in this
26:10
battle because nobody I know you said you like that they both survive, but
26:14
I think a distinctive winner. If if we were to get like a Royal
26:17
Rumble battle royal of these characters, I want to see them all go out
26:22
in a blazer glory and maybe one be victorious. Which is why I think
26:25
somebody like Ash being in this because he is a hero, He's not a
26:29
villain. I think him surviving and going through this shit could be something that
26:33
could be fun, you know, throwing him in that world of Freddie and
26:36
Jason, I think, I personally think would be an interesting film if they
26:38
were to, you know, eventually do something new with this. But as
26:42
a total film series, Freddy versus Jason, which one do you think?
26:48
Where do you think it hit its peak? Where do you think the series
26:52
even goes from here? Do we get more Freddy versus Jason? Can you
26:56
do Freddy without Robert England? So let's start off with you know, what
27:00
is the best of the best in each series? Do you have a personal
27:02
favorite Freddy film? I do, and it's kind of at hot take.
27:07
My favorite is Wes Craven's New Nightmare, which is the last movie that came
27:11
out in nineteen eighty four, and it's nothing like the rest. And that's
27:14
why I liked this so much because it was super meta for its time.
27:17
This was before Scream even so that's why I thought I liked it the most.
27:19
And it's just about how, like the whole Elm Street movies, there's
27:25
this demonic entity because it's all like these actors play themselves in real life,
27:29
you know, did they all? Nancy plays you know, her actress,
27:30
she has a kid, her husband dies, Like this is real stuff that's
27:34
happening. I mean, what's Craven's in the movie. So is like the
27:37
actor that the actor that plays Nancy's dad in the movies. So like,
27:41
it's all meta And basically the movie is about how this demonic entity has taken
27:45
over the character of Freddy thanks to Wes Craven creating the idea of Freddy Krueger
27:51
and you know, making it a movie franchise for the past, you know,
27:52
five movies, I believe, and so you know, at the end
27:56
of the franchise, Wes Kravets making another movie, and then he does,
28:00
and this demonic entity takes over. You know, you have to watch it
28:03
really understand it. But that's my favorite. It is a good one.
28:06
I actually really like that one. I like the I know a lot of
28:07
people didn't like the look of Freddy in that movie. That was the point,
28:11
you know what I mean. So it's kind of funny. Yeah,
28:12
I dug it. I like that movie. I personally would still just go
28:15
with the original. I just think it's shot very creepily. You know that
28:21
iconic shot of him just walking down, yeah, you know, the boiler
28:23
room with his hands extended. It's very creepy. It's funny that you mentioned
28:27
the third Freddy movie being like the one where it gets like started again a
28:30
little stupid, because is that Dream Warriors? Because that's my think that's my
28:33
dad's favorite. I love Dream Warriors. I think that that would definitely be
28:37
my second. Is that the one that's in the hospital. Yeah, yeah,
28:41
that one's got a really good scene where like they clip the strings on
28:44
this puppeteer, like that's what Freddie's doing in his dreams. That one,
28:47
That one's a really good like scene. I think the kills got better,
28:49
like as they got stupider. And for some reason, just to go back
28:52
to Freddy versus Jason talk with Addison, I thought the kills in this movie
28:56
will really lack loss. Yeah, it's nothing memorial exactly, Yeah, just
29:00
generic you know, slashings. And I see that's on your notes here.
29:03
We're gonna talk about like our best killing movie. So you know, I
29:07
definitely have some words for that part. What would what was the best killed?
29:11
I mean what's said about is that the best kills came from Freddy and
29:14
they weren't kills because he wasn't strong enough. Yeah you know what I mean.
29:15
So, like they had a shadow kill where Freddy, you know,
29:18
confronts this guy in the middle of the street and that's before Freddy talks to
29:22
us, and you know, breaks the fourth wall like I'm not strong enough
29:23
yet, so he like becomes this shadow and slashes him and nothing happens.
29:26
Oh I'm okay, I'm okay. And he walks away. It's the stupidest
29:29
line of the whole movie, in my opinion. And then afterwards there's this
29:32
girl in the movie looking at plastic surgery because she's like, you know,
29:34
I wants to change her nose a nose job, And Freddy comes out of
29:37
the magazine and rips her nose off exactly, and nothing actually happens because he's
29:41
not strong enough. I was so lame to see Freddy not do anything.
29:45
But that is like the most memorable Gore moment. As you mentioned, it's
29:48
not a kill. I guess maybe Freddy's kill of the one dude that's friends
29:53
with the main character, the main guy memorable of these characters. You know,
29:57
Freddy's back the guy alive. That that's I guess. It looked like
30:02
the soap from Fight Club. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
30:04
Addison, did you have a favorite kill in this prison You said bed Sandwich
30:08
when he folds the bed up in the beginning. You're right, yeah,
30:11
pretty good. That was like the only decent kill in the entire Also,
30:14
when that one guy with the glow sticks was getting creepy with friends sleeping,
30:18
Jason's not having any of it, and yeah, he launches him to another
30:22
dimension like the Fat Guy's Running Away. Yeah, we have been talking about
30:27
this, but Adamson just mentioned it, like very subtly. But like in
30:30
this movie, for some reason, both Freddy and Jason have ten times their
30:33
strength. They throw people just like they launched them for some reason, like
30:37
whenever anybody whenever, like anyone gets hit by Jason, they moved like fifty
30:40
ft in the air, just like a big like whooh yeah, across the
30:42
Jason standing on train tracks and the trains coming to the trains getting fucked up.
30:47
Yeah, was fine, And that's never happened to any other movies.
30:48
I don't know what it was about this movie that gave him like superpowers like
30:51
that. I think it's just like that pro wrestling superhero mentality that maybe Ronnie
30:56
you thought this movie needed. And again I I think it works. But
31:00
I also, like I said, I think if they took a curious approach
31:03
to this, I think it could also work. Addison. As far as
31:07
the favorites in the franchise, uh, what really stands out as far as
31:11
the freddie film's got the first three? I love one, two, and
31:14
three. You like to people hate too it is I know people have hated
31:18
it. I just like that Freddy's in the real world for like majority of
31:21
the entire party. I just that's the and the one kid tries to simple
31:25
like, hey man, we're here to help you help yourself, fucker,
31:29
and then the pool's on fire. It's just I guess the movie itself.
31:32
I don't hate. What I hate is that they never bring that premise back
31:33
to life. Then this movie they do though this movie, Freddy takes over
31:37
somebody like with a caterpillar down his throat. It's it's a whole scene,
31:41
so he takes over that person's body. I'm like, oh my god,
31:42
they're bringing back that one idea from Freddy to that and they never mentioned again.
31:45
And then just frohm the die right away. It was so like just
31:48
anti climatic for me because I was looking looking forward to Fredy taking over a
31:52
body in real life again. Oh yeah, he takes over the the j
31:55
from Jay and Silent Bio exactly a freeburg. As far as the The Jason
32:01
series goes, you know, the most iconic one is probably the first one,
32:07
yeah, which is even him The Jason's not until the end of the
32:09
movie. As far as my favorites, go. I think the majority of
32:14
people think four and six that's usually where I go with that. I'm kind
32:17
of a wild card. I say number two with a bagging over his head,
32:21
that was pretty cool. And I would say Jason X. Jason X
32:23
had the craziest kills movie. We definitely need to come back and talk Jason
32:28
because that's one of those other guilty pleasure. But think about the debts in
32:31
that movie. They're they're fantastic. I think that's one of the best debts
32:35
ever. When the girl gets her head frozen and that cryogenic freezing, yeah,
32:40
and then just smashes her head to smithers. And then they also do
32:44
a call back to the sleeping bag kill they do, yeah, and then
32:49
the stupid android woman and man, that's good. We gotta come back for
32:52
that movie. That movie is really good. I mean it's not good.
32:55
I mean it's just good, fantastic. I liked it. I thought it
32:59
was I thought it was just like I knew what it was. It's fun.
33:00
It's fun. Yeah, But I probably has like a ten percent on
33:04
run. I mean, that's that's why Kane Tter didn't come back. They
33:07
thought he did a terrible job in it. And they, you know,
33:08
they they thought his movies were the worst ones. It was Manhattan, Jason
33:12
X. Mahon, which is also a terribly reviewed movie, and Jason X
33:15
which didn't get the light of day. He was also the one where he
33:17
was versing the Carry Girl too. Oh yeah, yeah, you're right.
33:21
The four movies he did were all the worst of the entire No. I
33:27
think him as the character was one of the best. He takes good bumps,
33:30
like like some of the older Jason's, you know from the earlier films.
33:34
You know, he's doesn't really take the damage, the punishment. But
33:38
Kane Hotters getting fucking smashed and tossed around. I thought he would have done
33:42
a fine job in this movie. But but Robert England, yeah, I
33:46
think it is the only one that can do Freddy. Yeah, I saw
33:50
that shitty fucking remake that happened. And you know, I'm glad you mentioned
33:54
that because after this movie there were no sequels, but there were two remakes.
33:59
You had thirteen three Makes two thousand and nine and then Nightmare remake two
34:01
Dons ten, And in my opinion, the thirteenth remake was pretty good.
34:05
Yeah, I like the premise. It wasn't that bad? Smart back to
34:07
Yeah, what what? What worked in the franchise that made him seem like
34:12
he like kidnaps people and like he has his own little like you know where
34:14
he lives Electricity, He's electricity. I mean that was pretty cool. I
34:16
posed the question on Facebook a few months ago. Do you think Jason uses
34:22
the bathroom? Did he just ship his pants? He doesn't go in at
34:27
all? Right, he doesn't eat? I think in his shack and part
34:30
too, there's a toilet that outhouse. But I think is he like wiping
34:35
his asshole? Does he eat? It's a great well. Didn't he eat
34:38
a dog? Or is that Michael did a dog? Yeah? I want
34:44
I need to know like the smell of Jason. The smell of Jason.
34:47
I mean in Jason and Franus, Jason, he is the one of the
34:52
characters kisses for Jason basically out of the mouth. He left up the mass
34:54
of mouth and mouth. I just wonder how that smells. I think that
34:58
scene like he was fucking with the actress and that because I remember listening to
35:01
the DVD commentary. So he has like water in his mouth and he like
35:05
spits it up right when she's about that. It's kind of fun just messing
35:08
around with the actresses. But Robert England is Freddy Krueger. Now, Robert
35:13
England, I'm gonna look up his age right now, so bear with me.
35:16
Fifty during Freddy versus Jason. Yeah, so he's early seventies. Yeah.
35:21
I think a character like this could still work with Robert England playing him,
35:25
even though Robert England is seventy six years old. Now, I still
35:30
think an older, creepy Freddy. And then you know, if he has
35:32
to do any stunt, you get a stunk double cgi is really good.
35:36
Now you can you know, deep fake his his face on on whatever.
35:38
I mean, you could do the whole trope where like he's passing on the
35:42
torch. So he's kind of like the Candy Man that the recent Candy Man
35:45
remained the same thing that was good the new Candy Man. But I don't
35:47
know, I just don't think passing on the torch. I just think this
35:51
character is this guy. It would be like The Undertaker, for instance.
35:54
I mean, if you're a wrestling fan, you can't just have another guy
35:58
play the Undertaker. That's Mark Halloway, the guy who played it. I
36:01
don't think Freddy works without anyone else. You know. I think that the
36:05
Freddie remake kind of had it didn't. It didn't get a chance, you
36:07
know what I mean, because because they did the weirdest thing and they made,
36:10
you know, Freddy a pedophile cannon, you know what I mean.
36:13
It was always like hinted throughout the movies, but in this remake it was
36:15
confirmed that phrase a pedophile. We don't want to like even think about Freddy
36:20
Kruger being a pedophile, like, you know what I mean. It's bad
36:22
enough he kills sengers, now he's diddling them, you know what. So
36:24
I think that's what made this movie be really bad. I also think even
36:28
like the the effects on that remake of Freddy. I did not like the
36:31
makeup. I think they used a lot of CGII and that aged really badly.
36:37
So I don't I think that guy's a good actor. Jack Early,
36:42
I forget his name. He was Roarshack in the in the Watchmen movie.
36:45
He's been in a lot of stuff. I like him as an actor,
36:49
but I just don't think, like I said, I don't see anyone taking
36:52
on this role. Now. They they will make a sequel, they make
36:54
sequels. They make reboots for everything, you think, so because like the
36:59
Halloween ones came out recently, sort of the leather Faced ones, and we
37:01
haven't heard any scream. Also, we haven't heard anything from these two characters,
37:06
and I just don't understand what's happening. I've heard rumors of a potential
37:09
TV series, I mean, like Chucky Guys TV series, So maybe I
37:13
think if you do a character like Jason, I would like to see something
37:17
set in a different time period. So I think, like Jason, what,
37:22
he was a kid in the late forties, early fifties, fifties,
37:25
so maybe set something Again none of this actually makes sense as to in my
37:30
mind, but maybe set something in the fifties or the sixties. I wouldn't
37:35
how many horror movies today take place in the fifties and sixty None of them.
37:40
Yeah, they could explore his father, that's a but also like sometimes
37:45
not knowing the history of people makes them more interesting, Like, yeah,
37:49
I don't know if we need to know the lore and behind the scenes of
37:52
why he is. I think that's why I stopped watching the Chucky TV series
37:54
because it gave us too much lore, And I'm like, you know,
37:57
I guess I fell off because of that reason. I guess it makes sense
37:59
what you're saying. Sometimes less is more. But I still think there is
38:01
an opportunity to more do more Jason movies, the Halloween movies. I thought
38:06
that first one of the new remakes, and then that just fell off really
38:10
hard. I think you could do something like that first Halloween movie with Jason,
38:15
maybe a more serious tone, some really graphic kilts, and maybe get
38:20
a competent actor to work aside him, Like, like, there's been decent
38:24
actors in the in the Jason movies. Crispin Glover was in one of them,
38:30
Kevin Bacon was in the First Friday of the thirteenth, Corey Feldman as
38:34
a kid was a good actor. But ever really since then since Part four,
38:37
well in that, but honestly, since then, has there really been
38:43
anybody competent to really like, I think you need a good human character in
38:49
these films to sort of have you have sympathy instead of rooting for the heroes
38:53
to die. You need somebody to latch onto. You need, you know,
38:57
a Sydney or a Dewey. And Nancy was she was good. She
39:00
was yeah, she was good, you know one thing we haven't mentioned about
39:01
the plot just go real quick backwards, is we have this big thing where
39:06
there was this line which is ridiculous. It was like, let's see if
39:08
Freddy died by fire Jason by water, how do we use that? And
39:13
then in the middle of the movie they go like, you know what,
39:15
you know, fuck it, let's just make you know, Jason afraid of
39:19
water. Meanwhile, we saw this man swim to Manhattan, yes, and
39:22
we and we saw this man constantly in the water, held by chains,
39:24
just chilling there, like floating, like he's not free of water, go
39:28
anywhere. Yeah, exactly. So like that that part was also really confusing
39:31
about the plot that like, that's why you can't take any of the past.
39:35
No, you can't take it. It's just his own thing in its
39:37
own world. So final thoughts on this movie Freddy versus Jason. For me,
39:42
this is, like I said, one of those movies where I'll constantly
39:45
revisit. Anytime it's on a streaming service, I'm going to watch it.
39:50
You don't have to really pay attention. You just sort of do whatever in
39:53
the background, and then you just sort of look up and have some fun
39:57
and get a good laugh, and I I personally would like this to be
40:01
revisited one more time with Robert England in the role. And I think,
40:07
you know, if you do get another character involved, I still say you
40:10
get Ash from Evil Dead, so you have a protagonist that you actually care
40:15
about, and you could have a finality. You could give Robert England that
40:20
actual send off and kill Freddie and then if they want to reboot it ten
40:24
years from now, do its own thing. Know Robert England, but I
40:28
want a definitive end to the Robert England version of Freddie. And I think
40:32
you get Jason in the mix, have a little triple threat match, maybe
40:36
throw some Easter eggs free if you throw Easter eggs from other characters from horror
40:42
icons, I think it could be a real fun time. I think it'd
40:44
be another box office hit. I think people now are nostalgic for this movie
40:49
because it's been twenty something years since it's been out. I think bringing back
40:53
these characters now is the right time. So again, I like the movie.
40:58
I know it's bad, but I'm sure as He'll enjoy it. Final
41:01
thoughts from you guys. I mean, if I were to rate this movie
41:05
out of like ten. I think I would give it like a six.
41:09
Personally, I enjoyed watching the other for some reason. I really enjoyed watching
41:14
Jason X because because I had to watch this movie, Like I thought about
41:15
Jason X, I'm like, wow, Jason X was pretty slept on.
41:16
I'm not gonna lie. But regardless though, speaking of Freddy Verge Jason just
41:20
alone, I say six out of ten, I would say anti climatic.
41:22
I would say the fight scenes with each other were the best parts, but
41:25
their kills weren't, you know, Like they had a really cool scene where
41:29
Jason gets set on fire and they didn't really use it. He kind of
41:31
gets like turned off by beer, like immediately after he's on fire, like
41:35
having kills people in fire, you know what I mean. I have Freddy
41:37
like actually use his powers not be so weak, you know. So I
41:40
think Freddy got brought back into the real world too soon to like him be
41:44
like, you know, very crazy with the killings. And he had this
41:46
ping pong scene which I didn't really enjoy. Basically, like Freddy lifted up
41:51
Jason flew across the room with his finger knives. It was it was,
41:53
it was insane. So I would say six out of ten. But they
41:57
did a great job with the Freddy versus Jason scenes, which is the whole
41:59
poor movie. I get that part delivered. Addison final thoughts on Freddy versus
42:02
Jason. That's pretty much how I feel. It's just popcorn fun if you
42:06
just want to watch a movie with two pop culture icons and it's somewhat delivered.
42:10
Alright, Yeah, Freddy Rsius Jason's the movie, and that's gonna do
42:14
it for this additional film reel, Addison Antonio, thank you gentlemen for joining
42:17
me. We're gonna have to have you back on to do a little thank
42:21
you discussions of horror icons. Next week we will get to my Rocky Part
42:25
two rankings and a special tribute to late great Carl Weathers. Have a good
42:30
one, folks, so long bye bye,