Latest / TWRS-Leadership Straight, No Chaser / Silence as Self-Sabotage: Why Leaders Stay Small
Transcript
- Scott Brandt: It's funny what you think about it. Each of us really have this small tiny voice in our head that tells us, hey, you're not that dude. You're not that person. Welcome back to Together We Are Stronger, Leadership Straight, No Chaser. tonight we have Kurt Bush on with us as our guest. ⁓ Kurt, when we were kind of looking kind of what got you to where you're at, you had talked about the aspect imposter syndrome. ⁓ And what was the really the low point? George Dovolis: Ahem. Scott Brandt: that really had imposter syndrome blow up on you and then you're like, this is it. Like you're not gonna control anything. I'm not listening to you anymore because imposter syndrome a lot of times is kind of that lack of faith in ourselves, the trust in ourselves. But for yourself, what was that that really set the tone on I'm done with this and I'm really looking to help others to overcome that tiny voice? Kurt Bush: Yeah. Hey Scott, Hey George. It's a good question. So, so I think there's one clear moment for me. I live in a little Dutch town with a little Christian college in it. You know, little, little town, little college. And I moved into this town to serve in a church. I was on a big church staff and part of my role was to like once a week meet and talk about sermon stuff. Like, what are we gonna write about? What are we gonna highlight? What are we gonna do? it was pretty common to have ⁓ sit around that table ⁓ us. And these were professors of New Testament ⁓ or Greek language. And I found myself sitting in those meetings, ⁓ clamming not wanting to and really feeling like if I spoke, these professors, ⁓ people I respect, people that I want ⁓ to be relationship with. I thought, man, they're gonna think I'm a huge idiot. it's just gonna derail any relationship I'm building. So I would sit in these meetings once a week and I would literally just stay silent. And then I would leave the meeting feeling regret. I like, why did I clam up? ⁓ didn't I speak? Why didn't I contribute? And there just came a point where it was exhausting, ⁓ and it was ⁓ a ⁓ impact ⁓ the way that I showed up with those people. ⁓ I think there was just a moment of like, just can't do that. anymore and I don't want to do that anymore. Scott Brandt: It's a very interesting thing because I think a lot of times we get in our own ways We kind of feel as if we don't know Certain things or we're not smart enough or maybe we just don't fit in this room But the thing that we have to understand is each of us are individuals were unique we bring different things to the table So when people have that thought of ⁓ I'm not enough It might bring anything am I gonna look silly? ⁓ That relationship piece like you had highlighted one that a lot of people don't understand the power of building relationship capital. And then what that does when you don't show up as your true authentic self, you kind of make yourself small. And you miss out on, and it's a very interesting piece when you look at that about how much is left off the table ⁓ because we ourselves. And so like when you look at as you're working with individuals, as you're talking to individuals, as you're just kind of watching the landscape of the world and whatnot, what is the biggest thing that you see in regards to people really kind of making themselves small, not wanting to speak up, not be verbal, not show up because weird because as business owners, leaders, we're like, ⁓ don't want to be voiceless. We don't want to be loud. We don't want to be the center of attention. But if we don't get to that point, Kurt Bush: Yeah. Scott Brandt: Nobody knows about us and then we end up missing out on really impacting the lives that we need to impact. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question, Scott. And I don't know that I know how to answer it. you know, I think everybody's imposter syndrome or inner critic or, ⁓ you want to call it. I think everybody's a little different, but I the way you frame this in relationship. I think seems true is that the people tend to know when we're holding back. and I think I love about what you said is like that, that does have tangible impact. on relationships with people that we want to have positive relationships with. I think one of the things in my clients ⁓ I see is sort of like, I'm dealing this, I'm gonna withdraw, I'm gonna pull back and nobody else it or nobody else knows what I'm feeling or ⁓ if I can well enough, nobody else will pick up on it. But we do, ⁓ like does. And I think that another ⁓ ⁓ complexity to the experience of imposter syndrome, right? I would sit around that table with professors and like ⁓ not because to your point, Scott, I I love how you said, you know, we all have different perspectives. Like, of I'm not a professor. Of course a professor is going to know more than me, right? Duh. But, but, he's me and I'm not him or her or whatever that looks like. So I think to your point, like there is, a huge piece of us that gets left on the table when we withdraw or when we clam up. I like the way you said that. Scott Brandt: I appreciate that. interesting thing, you had highlighted how people were like, oh, nobody else knows what I'm going through. And I think as a commercial I was watching, this was about a year ago, and somebody had highlighted, they're like, when you start projecting that way of nobody knows what I'm going through, nobody knows how I'm feeling, you start putting up these walls, you start pushing people away, and it's a very, I guess it's a little bit of the ego piece of I want to protect myself. I don't want to truly show up because if I show up, what are people going to think? And if I can find a way and maybe we don't even realize we're doing it, I can push people away and then end up being Superman, which a lot of leaders, business owners try to do things on their own. And it's such a weird thing because as humans, we're social creatures. We're meant to do life together. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: but these beliefs, these thoughts, people just don't realize the kind of the force that they're putting out realizing it. Like last night, George and I were talking about the power of words ⁓ was like, people will show their hands by they speak. And then you'll be like, are you sure you really want to say it that way? And they're like, I don't it this way, but I'm like, you just spoke, what you're sharing is subconsciously coming out. Kurt Bush: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Scott Brandt: And so it is a very interesting thing how people really like to put up and say, ⁓ nobody understands what I'm going through. that's a little bit of that self trust though too is can I trust myself to show up in the mess and let other people be here with me and trust that they're not gonna take advantage of the situation. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'd love to hear what you think about this, but I generally think that all of these things are rooted in some sort of protection. I think if we boil down far enough, it might not be on the surface that this is why we're feeling what we're feeling, but I think if we boil it down, it comes down to a level of protection. I mean, don't know, what would you want to say about that? Scott Brandt: I Kurt Bush: You Scott Brandt: For my perspective, it's a little bit of the protection mechanism. also ⁓ fact that there's a lot of the deep rooted beliefs that we have that we picked up from others that we haven't gotten rid of. ⁓ it's a very interesting thing because if you start questioning the beliefs that you have, who do you start cutting off and you potentially get kicked out of the tribe? Kurt Bush: Yeah. Scott Brandt: because the caveman brain kicks in and if you get kicked out of the tribe back at that time, if you're outside, you're done. But here in today's day and age, there's not wooly mammoths, there's not saber-toothed tigers, you're not gonna get killed. a painful thing though because ⁓ social creatures, we're meant to work together. But it's also the fact of I don't wanna show up authentically, I don't wanna take this mask off because what are people going to think? Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: What are people going to say? And the crazy thing is we do a lot of the judging for other people without even realizing it. And it's like you're doing yourself a disservice by already doing the judging for others. got to show up, people are gonna judge, people are gonna do it, do whatever. You can't control those variables. The only thing you can control is yourself. ⁓ for me, I think it's a little bit of the protection piece. So that way you can say, it didn't work out because of XYZ. I didn't have to show up fully. Well. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: That's not how life works. Like if you want to fully experience life, you've got to show up and be yourself 100 % of time. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. George Dovolis: But I will definitely agree with that is I think a lot of times we wear this mask and you you're everything's great from the outside. But when you pull that mask off and I talk about this all all the time when you look in the mirror past the appearance, what are you going through that if if I say this and I speak out, what judgment is going to come toward me? Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. George Dovolis: Am I going to be like out of the circle out, you know, out of the community because those are the times people really need to step up and, you know, really get into a groove of saying things because what happens when you just keep closing down and keep closing down, one's going to hear what your voice is ⁓ Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. George Dovolis: I think that's those are the things people struggle with because we become very harsh on people. Kurt Bush: Yeah. George Dovolis: And I am very judgmental become puppets. Well, if you say this, I'm gonna let people know what's going on. And I think that really affects people carrying the torch. know, that's why though, the windshield is larger than the river mirror. And people don't see that. And the thing I have to ask is surviving what's that look like behind closed doors? Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. does surviving look like today? ⁓ George Dovolis: Yeah, surviving leadership looked like behind closed doors. Kurt Bush: Yeah. I mean, I think some of the clients I work with would say it just looks like complete exhaustion. ⁓ looks like the door closes and like there's this crumple. You know, those old toys that you like push up from the bottom and they have the rubber bands. ⁓ if you push all of them up, the thing like crumples. ⁓ think that's the mental image that I like to think of some of these like high impact leaders that we work with that, ⁓ like the minute the door closes, it's just like a weight is lifted off. But the minute the door opens again, like now the weight's got to go back on. George Dovolis: Mm-hmm. Scott Brandt: Yeah. George Dovolis: Yeah. Yeah. Kurt Bush: ⁓ I worked with a guy years ago, like early when I was just kind of learning what leadership was. I worked with a guy who would say, you can't just let, you can never let your people see you bleed. And I remember thinking at the time like, that seems, number one, it seems impossible. But two, I'm just not sure that I liked it. And I think the older I get, the more life experience I have, the more I'm like, I can affirm it's number one, impossible. And number two, I'm not sure it's beneficial that we ⁓ Scott Brandt: Hmm. Kurt Bush: just kind of always have this mask of togetherness or control or whatever we want to call it. I'm just not sure it's possible or sustainable. Scott Brandt: no, it's an interesting thing as you look at this. So we want to highlight our ⁓ that we have with ADP. ⁓ business owners, as leaders, you didn't get into business to do payroll, HR, compliance that just isn't in your zone of genius. ⁓ you start doing those things and you start getting your energy sucked out, like you just hate business. So ADP is here to work with you to take that backend off of your plate. ⁓ that way you can focus on the growth of your business really. ⁓ George Dovolis: point. Scott Brandt: being your zone of genius as a leader and impact the lives that you're meant to impact. So if you're struggling with that back end payroll, HR, compliance, talk to ADP, there'll be a link in the show notes. You can click on it, sign up. They'll be there, work with you, help you out with that one. ⁓ crumpling effect that you had talked about, Kurt, when the shuts the door ⁓ and like, now like weight's off and all that. There's a lot times when we see individuals that have misalignment. George Dovolis: Hmm. Scott Brandt: And it's a very interesting piece because there's an assessment, this gentleman, he's had a podcast, I don't know if he does it anymore, but it's the Working Zone of Genius. And it's a very interesting assessment because they highlight six different zones that as an individual, there's two that you're strong in, four that you're okay, and then two that you're weak in. the fact is a lot of people end up getting put into this. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: Places that are just out of alignment with who they are But they've like overcome like the struggle and then people are like ⁓ you're great at this And they're like that's not what I want to do, but they say I'm great I'm gonna tap into it So it is a very interesting thing when you see a lot of people have misalignment with either the values and the business that they're running partnerships the people that are around them not having alignment with the vision there the values that they all have Kurt Bush: Yeah. Scott Brandt: And so when I look at that, of the big things is that misalignment. But a lot of people struggle with really, okay, ⁓ can I go about to create alignment to make sure that I'm not struggling, I don't feel like ⁓ have to up one way and then show up another way. So for yourself, when you talk to individuals, what you see when it comes to like a misalignment with them as an individual and what they're trying to run and what they're trying to grow? Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm super familiar with the work in genius stuff. ⁓ I worked in an organization that used it. I hear the word T, tenacity, and it still makes me cringe. I'm like, ⁓ don't want to ⁓ any tenacity work ever in my life. So I don't know if you can relate to that. So here's the way think about alignment. ⁓ We use the word authenticity to think about leadership and living. And when I say authenticity, You know, I don't mean like, hey, this is Kurt. Take me, take me for how I am. Like I lose my temper a lot. That's just me. You know, that's not authenticity. I don't lose my temper a lot, but I that's how people think about authenticity. I think is an alignment ⁓ with who how we've decided we want to be. Right. If I'm showing up to lead, I think I would affirm and piggyback and say, think oftentimes the misalignment ⁓ is with and how we want to show up as leaders. Scott Brandt: Hmm. Kurt Bush: Mostly I think because of this mental model ⁓ people hold that says, I'm a leader, I have to be strong. I have to be decisive the moment. I can't take a breath or a pause. I have to rule with iron fist or whatever that is. I think for me, that's where I see the most misalignment is this idea that, hey, I'm supposed to be a leader, but I'm not those things. ⁓ I ⁓ always an answer real time. I don't always want to be ⁓ the... Scott Brandt: Mm-hmm. Kurt Bush: authority figure in the room. think that's where like that is a huge tension. I think the question for me has always been ⁓ question of like, can ⁓ shift to more aligned in my role and position? Like, is that even possible? Like I told you before, my T in working genius is like the worst. ⁓ It's like I score negative on and I hate it. You know, I always have to ask questions. As I'm doing bookkeeping for my two small businesses, can I do less of that? No, I probably can't. So then how do I then find other ways to do the things that are aligned with who and how I want to be to sort of be a counter system to those places where I feel misaligned, if that makes, does that make sense? Scott Brandt: Hmm Yeah, the other thing about too is like really looking at who is part of your circle Making sure there's alignment there too because if ⁓ not strong in a certain area like ⁓ be trying it's a weird thing because like we go back to high school like a CTA SATs and like you have to ⁓ your mediocreness and hopefully you get here, but then let's forget about your strengths Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: And it's just a weird thing because we get into real life and it's not that way. Like we want to focus on our strengths. Where we're weak in, find people that compliment our weaknesses with their strengths. So that way we can lean on this person that has that strength. We're not over here burning ourselves out because we're getting into things that we just don't flourish in. But we need to push through because we're the leader and we have to show up and have every answer. It's like, nah, like. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: that's not a good way to go about because you'll burn yourself out. And then to try to be there for everyone as you should be, you burn yourself out, you can't pour into people with an empty cup. And a lot of leaders are over here empty cups, let me try to pour into people and it's like, good luck doing that because you're not even fulfilled. So how are you going to pour into somebody and lead them when you're not even full for yourself? Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ ago, when I worked through this working genius stuff, my my sort of personal mentor, he would push me. I would say ⁓ I'm terrible at tenacity and finishing things like I just don't finish anything. ⁓ And ⁓ and I said that like need to find a way to get rid of some of this finishing And my mentors push back to me was always, how do you know ⁓ when there's growth to be had and you're missing it versus like, let's really take some of this stuff off of your plate. That makes sense. Like when am I avoiding personal growth in those areas versus like legitimately let's transfer some of it? do you, I still don't know that I fully know how I answer that. I know how I like to think about it, but I'm curious what you think about that. Scott Brandt: I think when you look at it really is if you take on that task is it gonna push you forward or is it potentially a distractor and it's gonna pull you off the rails and then you're so far away from where you need to go. So it's a very interesting thing. I don't know if you've ever read the book 10X is easier than ⁓ So ⁓ Dan Sullivan wrote that book. That's kind of the same process of if you take things that really aren't gonna push you forward, then what are you doing to yourself? You're kind of holding yourself back. But that's the thing though, is you have to look and say, can I grow from this? But is going to really push me to where I'm trying to go? And so it's a very interesting thing because you'll have people that will see different things. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Scott Brandt: And I've highlighted this, I'm like, you gotta listen to people, but then at the end of the day, you gotta say, is this really gonna benefit me? Or is this something that just isn't for me as an individual? Like, this has worked for them, but it's not gonna work for me. So instead of trying to hold on to something that's not gonna benefit me, thank you for your advice, but I'm gonna keep doing this. And that's where you have to have that open mind, open ears to listen. Kurt Bush: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: because you might be missing something, but that's also where you have to filter and say, okay, is it really gonna help me out or is it gonna be a detractor? Is it gonna hold me back? Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah, love that. George Dovolis: I think the one thing, and especially for me, is I've been an entrepreneur, like I said, for 44 years. And Scott will tell you, I thought I knew everything. You I started my business at 19, gone through things, had good, great success. And when you stop being a student, ask Scott, George, do you read? I don't need to read. I start front, read the middle, and I finish. No, do you read the book? I don't need to read. I'm dead serious. This is the... And he's like, George, you need to start reading. And I felt like this, the thousand pound boulder... But when I start reading, this is the thing, I start reading Sean Cannell, I start reading and number one thing, the Bible. And those are the things I read until I'm finished. Bible never be finished, but the other stuff I work on. And it has exploded on me. But if Scott says, hey, I need you to focus on doing video, I'm stressed. Because I don't know ⁓ and me, you put me in front of people. I can speak. You put me on stage, I can handle it. But doing certain things, you know, you're willing to learn, but it's really, are you willing to stretch yourself? Kurt Bush: Yeah, yeah. George Dovolis: in a sense of making things happen. Now, if it's to benefit the team and it's going to help you, yes. But for me, a reading was like off limits. it really, and I tell this, I just talked about this today about togetherness. It's not soft. It's a weapon. you know, people think it's, you're not strong enough when you work a team. Kurt Bush: Hmm. Yeah. George Dovolis: So what happens you align the team and next you know your problems get smaller and your vision gets bigger. And I think a lot of times people as leaders and entrepreneurs I think we try to do it on our own, know, do all this, all these different hats and what happens you forget why you started the business. Kurt Bush: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ love that. I think it's great. mean, ⁓ would say the same thing. I I think the value of curiosity gets more important for me as I get older, ⁓ know, for some reason, as I get older, you I think if could go back and like take my mentor's words in that moment, I think I would understand what he was saying was like, I think you could probably be like beneficial in some of these areas and I'm resistant to them. And yeah, I mean, I think there's such a fine line between like, George Dovolis: Mm hmm. Yes. Kurt Bush: how can I be curious and see what's under this versus like but at the end of the day, like having the agency to decide where my time goes and my energy goes, the agency feels more important than any ⁓ and white answer of what I will or won't do, right? George Dovolis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Scott Brandt: So right now, if you're getting any nuggets from the video, hit the like button. If you're looking for these types of videos, hit the subscribe button. really, if you're struggling with imposter syndrome and you just don't feel like you're worthy, you don't trust yourself, ⁓ gotta look and say, okay, how am I speaking to myself? What's the environment that I am? What am I listening to? What am I reading? And then start fleshing out the stuff that's not going to add to you and help you grow. So ⁓ very... ⁓ interesting because As we're looking at this. I think you had highlighted in your one sheet I believe was the the aspect of fake it till you make it which George and I that the max and when I hear people that are like just fake it till you make it I'm like you're doing a disservice to everybody ⁓ Because they're not what's worked for you doesn't mean else Kurt Bush: Ha ha! Scott Brandt: And when you fake it, people can feel it, you're not your true self, and then you start impacting relationships. So for me, came up with that, I wish I could have a time machine and tell them, don't use that. Don't put that out there. ⁓ is doing worse than what you're thinking it's doing for people, okay? Kurt Bush: Yeah, I'm so glad guys. I'm so glad. It just, gets thrown out so often. Like if I give it a gracious read, like if I can be gracious and what people are trying to say, like I think I can get on board with a sentiment that says something like walk across the bridge while you build it. You know, like I think I can get on board with a sentiment like that, which I think is what people kind of mean maybe if I'm being gracious. But yeah, I mean, I think is just. Like leading is exhausting already. Like why do we put ourselves in this spot where we feel like we just have to find this thing that we don't know how to do and pretend like we're doing it, you know? And I just don't know, I don't know anybody that has like elevated their leadership capacity by just faking it until they make it. 100%. I'm glad you wanna resist that with me. Scott Brandt: Well, it's the same thing though. Like big thing is like if you don't believe in yourself borrow my belief in you ⁓ issue is we had a guest on Dr. Joey He's like some of these people don't even know my name. So how are they gonna say? I know your roadmap I here's your roadmap for you, but ⁓ it's ⁓ if they don't believe in themselves ⁓ Barring belief is what is this going to do because they're still ⁓ Going up against the wall that's here of they need to overcome that it's such a weird piece for the motivational world and these motivational sayings how leaders is like to clamp onto it without like really thinking about it and then they don't give it up because it's like their shtick ⁓ then it's like ⁓ like you're you're doing more harm than good because You're giving these people ⁓ hope And then they get out of it and then they go back to that mindset, the internal belief system that has not been worked on. And they're like, yeah, he said I could borrow his belief from me. I don't even know him. He doesn't know me. I've only heard him talk for 15 minutes, but I can borrow his belief to believe in me. Like, no, like you don't understand that you're just hurting yourself in the long run. And so. It's a very interesting thing because then as humans we're like, well, we don't want to look internally because it's scary. So let me look at internally externally, borrow different things and say, oh, this is going to work. And it's like, it will last for five seconds. And then you're back to where you're at because you have to do the internal work. But some people don't like doing that because it's scary. I was telling George, I was like, some of the time it's like, you just don't see anything happening. And so because there's not anything tangible, you're like, this isn't working. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: I'm done. And it doesn't help that we have Amazon, that you have your product in two seconds. So we're out here, we're like, it's gotta happen in two seconds. If it doesn't, it didn't work. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that's so important, Scott. mean, one, like, ⁓ Team, I don't know what it means to make it. Like, ⁓ does that even mean? Like, what am I even shooting for anyway? Like, how will I know when I've made it? But I mean, I think you're right. Like, my journey, like, ⁓ it's me 25 years to even, like, get to where I am today. And I got a long way to go yet, you know? Like, ⁓ I'm a kid in some of this stuff, this self-awareness ⁓ internal George Dovolis: Mm-hmm. Kurt Bush: And you know, like we do these other ways of being for decades. Well, of course it's going to take years to undo them and unlearn them and replace them with different things. And yeah, I often wonder what role culture plays in the Amazon culture. I often wonder what role that plays and ⁓ keeps people ⁓ doing this sort of work. George Dovolis: Well, I think a lot of times people... going to work and like, it's gonna be easy. And it's it's a lot of work. And I tell you this, because people ask me at work, how hard is to do a podcast? Let me tell you, it's a full time plus job. You got to create the content, you know, what you've gone through what you have learned, then you go through the video editing and everything else, the shorts and all. It is a lot of work. And I think that fake it till you make it is does not work in business because all you're doing again, you're blowing Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. George Dovolis: smoke on someone's skirt, give them false hope, not trying to beat this thing up again. But what happens because we're so you want to get a hamburger, you can go get one right now. You know, it's not like your mom's gonna make it and put on the barbecue, you can get one right away. And I think at times we get so used to that in business. Kurt Bush: Yeah. George Dovolis: that people just like, it didn't work out. I'm going to quit. no effort. There's no pride. There's no, easy way out. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah, and ⁓ I get it. I think I can appreciate ⁓ people want, I mean, I want that. It'd great if you could do my self work for me. ⁓ I a client who compares her internal work to one of these old ⁓ school toys you unscrew the lid of the jar and the snakes pop out. ⁓ How do know what's gonna come out when I start taking the lid out? ⁓ George Dovolis: Yeah. Kurt Bush: I mean, I think on some level I appreciate what she's saying because she's saying like, I'm doing that work where these snakes are flying out, you know? And like, I still have to do my job. Like, and I still have to do my nine to five job that has tactical, practical things I have to get done. So like, I think I can appreciate it. I think I understand why people don't do it, but I mean, long-term, ⁓ I understand, long-term I have no idea. Like long-term, the of it, ⁓ it seems like I trade it for the world. mean short term is hard, long term I wouldn't trade it for the world. Scott Brandt: Mm-hmm game ⁓ ⁓ an interesting thing because we see ⁓ lot of people try to break away from ⁓ ⁓ hustle culture and it back to just like I got be busy to be busy ⁓ and it's ⁓ is that the route we want to go because if we're not being productive ⁓ and You're to see the shift now, but you still have people that have it ingrained of hustle hustle hustle hustle breathe Hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, breathe. And so you're working with individuals ⁓ they're looking at trying to break away from that, trying to free themselves to get into their own zone, you had talked about ⁓ clarity and wholeness piece. When comes to clarity, ⁓ what role that play for somebody getting away and breaking away from the hustle culture? Kurt Bush: Yeah, I mean, I think it all goes back to that question of authenticity and alignment for me. I actually don't know that there's a problem with hustle when we're aligned properly, right? I have a friend who will say burnout isn't a product of the amount of work we do. Burnout is a problem related to the alignment that we have. So I sometimes wonder if it's probably less about even pace or like how hard we grind. Like that's kind of the term today. You know, like I don't, think it's probably less about that and more about like why and how and like what's our alignment with it. So then I think the clarity piece has to be, has to be really like cliche, right? The clarity has to be clear. There has to be a crystal clear understanding of the why and the how and like boundaries and what we're willing to give of ourselves and of our time and if our families, if we have them. And we honestly do that with the practice of reflection. That, you it's kind of an old school practice that is kind of seen ⁓ with a eye a lot of times because, mean, to your point, Scott, like you have to slow down. Like you can't reflect in the hustle. ⁓ I can't properly reflect without removing myself from the hustle. I can't see clearly what's going on in my life and how the alignment is. If I don't take, five, 10, 15 minutes a day, ⁓ we people take five minutes. If you don't reflect at all now, take five minutes in your day, ask some questions. You know, where do you find energy? ⁓ Where do feel drained? Yeah, I mean, I think that clarity piece has to be clarity around alignment ⁓ of energy and and desire and passion and all those kinds of things. Scott Brandt: an interesting piece because ⁓ don't realize as they go go go go go it like the brain can't filter the brain can't sort and by taking that five ten fifteen minute break to step back ⁓ I that it's gonna be hard though because you're like well 15 minutes what could happen it's like you got to step back ⁓ let brain sort things because that helps with that 30 piece that helps with ⁓ sorting really needs your attention ⁓ what isn't there, it's just that out there that's distracting you. And ⁓ we've about, ⁓ actually I think our first long episode of the podcast was clarity, ⁓ because we look at it, a lot of people lack that foundational piece of clarity. We ⁓ look it as a way to filter, because as it goes through, it doesn't with the bigger picture with what you're trying to accomplish, ⁓ or is gonna pull you away? And so if it doesn't have alignment, it's not pushing you forward. It needs to be pushed to the side. It needs to be dropped. Come to it later. Maybe it's something later. But at this point, you want to filter it through the clarity piece to make sure that there's alignment and that you're just not chasing everything under the sun because you as one person, you could have three different options, but you can only select one option and you have to go through that door, lean into it and keep pushing forward. Kurt Bush: Yeah. George Dovolis: Hmm. Scott Brandt: And yeah, like you could have done the other two doors, but you're only one person. So once you made that decision, you gotta lean into it push forward and have no regrets because you don't know, like it's passed here. You can't go back in time and say, okay, I'm gonna go through door three now. No, like this is what happened. This is the choice that you had. Hopefully you ran it through your clarity, your filter system to make sure that this door was the proper selection. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Scott Brandt: Because if not, then you're gonna be really bad because you're like, this sucks. Like now we're all out of place and now it's just harder to get back to where we need to go to get to, to keep moving forward. Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I love that. George Dovolis: one thing I wanted to ask you and self-awareness is so why is it so Rare to see self-aware awareness in a performer Kurt Bush: Yeah, good question, George. I think my theory I think high performers, ⁓ high capacity are oriented towards goals and tasks and trying to get things done. And I think the way we learn as like, know, people that grown in this kind of Western education system is that we can like, impact and pull levers on every situation and I can bend situations to my will, right? So the easiest thing for me to do in those scenarios is I can look outside of myself and try to get my situations to go the way I want them to go. I might actually argue against that and say that's a myth. So, you know, ⁓ I probably say the only thing in those situations I can control is me. But I think a high performer is usually looking a way to like get things to go their way. Looking a way to get outcomes to be positive. Usually looking out there instead of in here. And I think ⁓ maybe my second is looking in here is weak or is as weak is perceived as a waste of time. I mean, I thought that way long time. Scott Brandt: Mm. Kurt Bush: Like I would have said that for a long time You know that why would I look in here? Like I know what I need to know and I have what I need now I need to like conquer the world ⁓ When actually I think it's probably the opposite I think conquering the world probably starts here Yeah, and it's harder to I think you said it earlier Scott like it's it It's harder to see results when I look at self-awareness man. I can see results on a metric like a KPI sheet I can see those right away George Dovolis: Understand Kurt Bush: can't really measure my internal work as easily as some of those things. I don't know, what would you say, George? George Dovolis: ⁓ man, think a lot of times they get in their own way. I think a lot of high performers, they do great, but again, they want to shift it. to their way of doing things. And that's because their alignment is completely off because no one can work with them. If it's not their way, well, oh well, ain't gonna happen. Or I'm gonna do it no matter what. And then they learn down the road, man, that cost me a lot of money. That's a hard situation because you can have a really good high performer. But if you try to sit down and teach them and become a student, I got this. I don't need that. And I, very hard because I thought that way too. ⁓ Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know, I always want to be really clear. Like I, I don't say these things because I think people are doing it on purpose. Do you guys, know, Brene Brown, right? Scott Brandt: Mm-hmm. Kurt Bush: Brene Brown says, people aren't sucking on purpose to piss me off. They're doing the best they can with what they've got. ⁓ ⁓ think that's been true for me. I ⁓ don't leaders ⁓ that looking at self ⁓ are even bad leaders. ⁓ They don't know any better. ⁓ I know any better until I did. So I like to say, I think people put this off and I think ⁓ often because we know how to do it or we don't know that it's possible. George Dovolis: What do you want your legacy to be when God takes you home? Kurt Bush: ⁓ Yeah, mean, there's two prongs to this. I asked when God takes me home, I think, you know, I've got a pastoral background. One my legacy pieces would be that I was as faithful as possible. Like, whatever looks like. ⁓ Right now looks like running a couple small businesses. I think the other piece is that ⁓ I sought to aligned with who and how I want to be and who and how I was created to be. even ⁓ it was hard, like ⁓ Scott Brandt: ⁓ carers, if wanna kinda learn more, get to know you little bit deeper and whatnot, ⁓ where would that be for them connect with you? Kurt Bush: Yeah, I've got a website. I run a coaching practice with one of my best friends. Our coaching practice is Brimstone Coaching Group, not like Fire and Brimstone. Brimstone is a species of butterfly. There's more to that story. You don't have time for it. Not that kind of Brimstone. Our website's brimstonecoachinggroup.com. ⁓ can find all they need to know about who we are and why we do the work we do and how we do it and to get ahold of us there. Scott Brandt: Awesome. Yeah, we'll have that in the show notes so that way people it's very easy to find ⁓ we talked about if you're looking for these types of videos hit the subscribe button so that way when they come up they're there for you and If was something that really like ⁓ hit in the gut like between the eyes you're like You want to sit with thing kind of say okay? What is it that I need to pull back? What is this layer that I need to explore deeper on? To see what's there potentially because it's here ⁓ for your but you can't be scared of it, but you need to go explore. So if you're looking to go deeper, don't just dismiss it and say, I don't need this, I'm done. Like sit with it, look at it. If you need somebody to talk to, Kurt, myself, George, have plenty of people that you can reach out to. They're more than willing to sit down and have a conversation with you. ⁓ we appreciate everyone coming part on this journey here, allowing us to be part of your journey, and we'll catch you on the next episode. George Dovolis: Kurt, thank you. You're amazing. Kurt Bush: Thanks guys.