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WAVE: Big Book Study with Corey Session Two - The Doctor's Opinion · The Daily Ripples Podcast

0:05
Hey guys, welcome back to the Wave book study. Um, this is Corey,
0:09
and, uh, last week we went through the preface to the forwards. And,
0:13
you know, I was thinking about why we're doing this. The reason we're doing this
0:17
is for me and others, you know, to carry this message.
0:22
And talks about it on page 84 in this book. It says our next function
0:25
is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. And I think
0:30
after I've gone through this work and I go through this book with guys and
0:34
take them through and read this with them and we go through the steps,
0:38
and I do grow an understanding and effectiveness of how this
0:42
literature works, how the concepts work, and how all this works in my life
0:46
and trying to help someone else's life as well, and just presenting that information.
0:52
So we talked about that. This is the basic text
0:56
of our society. And it's— I think it's a good thing to know
0:59
what the basic text of our society says. And we're going to start,
1:03
you know, we went through the preface, through the foreword, so we're going to start
1:05
on the doctor's opinion, and that's on XXV.
1:09
And what this chapter is talking about is Dr.
1:12
Silkworth. He, he, um, and Bill kind of has like,
1:15
you know, some things he put in here too, but Dr.
1:18
Silkworth wrote some letters regarding Alcoholics Anonymous in
1:23
this book. So Ed, he was a neurologist,
1:27
um, back in the 1920s. I, I think it— he— his birthday
1:32
was 7/22/1887. That's when he was born,
1:35
1887, and he lived till 1951.
1:39
So he was way back in the day, back when they didn't really even know
1:42
what they were doing. But, um, he worked at Towns Hospital and
1:47
the Knickerbocker. He was the director of both of those, and I've
1:51
seen things that he worked for me that were anywhere between 5,000
1:55
and 40,000 alcoholics in between 1930 and 1938.
1:59
So we're going to get started.
2:03
And, you know, so the doctor's opinion. So the opinion is a judgment about a
2:07
fact, right? So this is his opinion about something and
2:11
about this work. And I think this dude has a pretty good understanding of working,
2:15
you know, working with alcoholics from 5,000 to
2:19
40,000 different ones. That's a lot of experience.
2:23
So it starts out on the doc XXV. We of
2:27
Alcoholics Anonymous believe that the reader will be interested in the medical
2:31
estimate of the plan of recovery described in this book.
2:35
Convincing testimony must— so I start, you know,
2:38
we're gonna have to stop in a couple places. Must needs to be circled.
2:42
Convincing testimony must surely come from medical
2:45
men who have had experience with the sufferings of our members and
2:49
have witnessed our return to health. And I kind of look at, and have
2:53
witnessed our return to health, as that's almost like a promise, right? Because people
2:59
have returned to health from this thing. It says, a well-known doctor, chief physician
3:03
at a nationally prominent hospital specializing in alcohol
3:07
and drug addiction, gave Alcoholics Anonymous this letter.
3:11
To whom it may concern, I've specialized in the treatment of
3:14
alcoholism for many years. In late 1934,
3:18
I attended a patient. You know, they're talking about
3:22
Bill Wilson right here. Though he had been a competent businessman
3:25
of good earning capacity. It says competent businessman. They didn't say
3:29
he was a good businessman, right? He had the capacity to earn,
3:33
but I don't think, if you look back in history, he didn't really earn much.
3:37
Says he was an alcoholic of a type I'd come to regard
3:40
as hopeless. And I think, you know, starting with hopeless,
3:44
right? You know, that's— me and my sponsor talk a lot about this, and there's
3:48
a basic white cake recipe, and that's the steps
3:51
of Alcoholics Anonymous. But also, I would say that part of that basic
3:55
white cake recipe is the condition of hopeless. It says,
4:00
in the course of his third treatment, he acquired certain ideas concerning
4:03
a possible means of recovery. As part
4:07
of his rehabilitation, he commenced to present his conception to other alcoholics.
4:12
Impressing upon them that they must— so circle
4:16
must— do likewise with still others. So Bill Wilson went to treatment
4:19
4 times though. So on his 3rd time being in treatment,
4:23
he figured out or came to this conclusion that part
4:28
of his rehabilitation, he needed to present his conceptions to other alcoholics,
4:32
telling them that they need to do that also. Then it goes on to
4:36
say, and I have like a 1 right here, I think, because I think this
4:39
is important. It says, this has become the basis Basis
4:42
is a core principle of something, of a rapidly growing
4:46
fellowship of these men and their families. So that's
4:50
a core principle, right? Giving to others. And then I
4:54
have fact 2 right beside this. This man and over 100 others
4:57
have, have appeared to have recovered. So that's number 2.
5:02
And then it goes on to say, I personally know scores of cases who were
5:06
the type whom other methods had failed completely.
5:10
So that's number 3. So you got 3 different thoughts right there. The core principle
5:14
of what this is is giving freely of this stuff.
5:17
The second is this man and over 100 others appear to have recovered.
5:22
And the third is other methods fail completely. So 3
5:26
thoughts right there. Says these facts appear to be extremely medical
5:30
importance because of their extraordinary rapidly extraordinary
5:34
possibility of rapid growth inherent in this group.
5:38
They may mark a new epoch in the annals of alcoholism.
5:42
These men may well have a remedy for thousands of such situations.
5:47
You may rely absolutely on anything they say about themselves.
5:52
Very truly yours, William D. Silkworth. So that's his first letter
5:56
he wrote, and So then in between
6:00
these 2 letters, this is what Bill's kind of, you know, talking about a
6:05
little bit in between here. And it says, this physician who
6:09
at our request gave us this letter has been kind enough to enlarge
6:13
upon his views in another statement which follows.
6:18
And I have this, the rest of this next sentence underlined
6:22
and highlighted. In this statement, he confirms what we
6:25
who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe. So I think the question is, have you
6:29
suffered alcoholic torture.
6:32
Maybe, maybe not. But, you know, I mean, if you're going to go through this
6:36
book, I mean, I think that's something to think about.
6:40
Must beliefs— circle must— that the body— I have
6:43
body underlined— of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as
6:47
his mind— underline mind. So body-mind,
6:51
right? So when I take a drink, I want more.
6:54
My mind, after a certain amount of time after treatment centers,
6:57
right, I go drink after that too.
7:01
It did not satisfy us to be told that we could not control our drinking
7:04
just because we were maladjusted to life, that we
7:08
were full flight from reality, or we were outright mental defectives.
7:12
So, you know, that's what I thought I was for a long time. And I
7:15
had that maladjusted to life and full flight from reality and all
7:19
that highlighted because that's what everybody
7:22
thought I was. Because, you know, not everybody understands an
7:27
alcoholic either and understands the physical component and the mental component of
7:30
this either. Because when I take a drink, I want more, and 90%
7:34
of the world does not. 90% of the world can
7:38
push their drink away and have it and be able to shut it off.
7:42
But I don't understand that. And I don't understand after I hurt my loved
7:46
ones that— or do something that hurts my job
7:50
or hurts my friends or, you know, interrupts my life in any way—
7:54
like, why would I do it again? 'Cause so everybody
7:57
thought I was just a full flight from reality.
8:02
So it goes back to the text. It says, in fact,
8:05
to a considerable extent with some of us,
8:09
but we are sure that our bodies were sickened as well. And I
8:13
had this underlined as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves
8:17
out the physical factor is incomplete. So that's an incomplete thought
8:20
if I just talk about the mind. The doctor's theory
8:24
that we have an allergy to alcohol interests us.
8:28
And so, and I think this is interesting, so my little girl, she— it was
8:32
funny, like, because she was— I don't know if you ever like seen a baby
8:35
sucking on a bottle, but their face gets a little red after
8:40
they suck on it pretty hard because they're wanting the milk out. And so one
8:43
night we, we give them the baby peanut butter and, um,
8:48
Then she had her milk, and my significant other thought,
8:52
you know, that the— she was breaking out because of the peanut
8:55
butter, but it was really because she was sucking really hard on the milk.
8:59
And anyway, so next thing you know, it's 12 o'clock at night
9:03
and we're at the emergency room for the baby because we think the baby's allergic
9:07
to peanut butter. And for about 6 months, we did not give the peanut
9:11
butter to the baby after— until she had some tests. And turns out It
9:15
was just the bottle, her sucking on the bottle, and she was never allergic to
9:17
peanut butter. But we would not let her come near, get near the peanut butter.
9:22
And so if I know I got this allergy, right, that something happens
9:26
that doesn't normally happen in a normal person,
9:29
you know, that's the— and then the mental side is I still go take a
9:33
drink. As laymen, our opinion to its soundness
9:38
may of course mean little, but as ex-problem drinkers, we can say this that
9:42
his explanation makes good sense.
9:45
It explains many things for which we cannot otherwise account.
9:50
And I have the next sentence underlined and,
9:55
uh, highlighted. It says, though we work out our solution—
9:59
so our solution on it, on the spiritual as well as the altruistic
10:04
plane, and altruistic is giving freely, right? We favor
10:07
hospital for the alcoholic who is very generally befogged.
10:11
So like, or the solution, that's spiritual and giving freely,
10:15
right? But if you're about to
10:19
have some DTs or you're just coming off the drink, we favor
10:23
hospitalization for those people. More often than not,
10:27
it is imperative. Imperative is circled right here because
10:31
imperative is like a big word for must. That a man's brain
10:35
be cleared before he is approached. And in a different color,
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man, I'm a crazy person when it comes to this book and going through
10:43
this book. But I have approached in an orange
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highlighter just because, like,
10:50
when it says that a man's brain be cleared before he is
10:54
approached, so that means someone's approaching this dude, right?
10:57
We're not— and I'm going to say this probably a thousand times going through
11:01
this book, but that doesn't mean that I'm waiting on for this dude
11:05
so I can sit back in the back and say something and
11:08
this guy's going to come up to me. No, I'm approaching the individuals.
11:12
Um, and then it goes on to say, as he has then
11:16
a better chance of understanding and accepting what we have to offer.
11:21
Then this is going to go back into the, uh,
11:25
another letter written by Dr. Silkworth. And this was kind of
11:28
prompted by Dr. Richardson of Johns Hopkins to
11:33
write something that he decided that needed to be more in depth in the
11:36
front, in the You know, in the introduction to this book,
11:40
it says, the subject presented in this book seems to me to
11:44
be of paramount importance to those afflicted with alcoholic addiction.
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I say this after many years' experience as a medical director
11:53
of one of the oldest hospitals in the country treating alcohol and drug
11:57
addiction. Oh, he was treating drug addicts too, huh?
12:01
There was therefore a sense of real satisfaction when I was asked
12:05
to contribute a few words on a subject which is covered in such mass
12:09
extra detail in these pages. And man, I know
12:13
a lot of guys that go through this stuff, right? And man, there's a lot
12:16
of book studies, and I really like how they have turned
12:20
this— these words into something more. And if you're— I
12:23
hope, you know, when you're going through this, maybe you can get your book out
12:27
to do this because it would make more sense than just listening to it.
12:30
But it doesn't make sense as much when
12:33
I talk about it in these terms. It says the— I'm
12:37
going to read it once and I'm going to reread it.
12:40
So what it says right here, it says, we doctors have realized for
12:44
a long time that some form of moral psychology was of urgent importance to
12:48
alcoholics, but its application presented difficulties
12:52
beyond our conception. What with our ultra-modern standards
12:58
or scientific approach to everything, we are perhaps not well equipped to
13:03
apply the powers of good that lie outside our synthetic knowledge.
13:07
And I'm not a doctor, Man, I'm just a blue-collar worker,
13:10
right? And I only made it to the 10th grade.
13:14
Um, so I don't really understand some of these things, and it's kind
13:18
of confusing. So some guys, you know, a lot of guys that I've
13:21
heard do book studies have changed some words up. So I'm going to change a
13:24
couple words up, and as we go along, I'm going to
13:28
kind of go slow. If you want to change yours up too,
13:31
it's cool. So I have in here, we doctors
13:34
have realized for a long time that some form of
13:38
spiritual experience was of urgent importance
13:42
to alcoholics, but a spiritual experience
13:47
presented difficulties beyond our
13:51
medical capacities. So I'm taking out the word moral
13:54
psychology and adding spiritual experience and conception to medical
13:58
capacities. And then it goes on to say, what with
14:02
our— and I have taken out ultra-modern and put most up-to-date
14:07
standards. Our scientific approach to everything,
14:11
we are perhaps not well equipped to apply the powers
14:14
of— and I got good, change it to God— that
14:18
lie outside our synthetic knowledge. And I got synthetic knowledge changed
14:22
to medications or experience. So I'm going to reread this. I know
14:25
we're— anyways, it doesn't matter. So we doctors
14:29
have realized for a long time that some form of spiritual experience was of urgent
14:34
importance to alcoholics, but a spiritual experience presented difficulties
14:38
beyond our medical capacities. What with our most
14:42
up-to-date standards or our scientific approach to everything,
14:45
we are perhaps not well equipped to apply the powers
14:49
of God that lie outside our
14:53
medication or experience. Man, these are doctors, right? So they can't really
14:57
talk about God. They can't talk about spiritual experiences.
15:01
That's why it says moral psychology. That's important because if we're talking
15:04
about a spiritual experience, we're talking about God.
15:07
That's— and that's presented right here, you know. And so I like
15:12
to just change that up, and maybe it helps somebody, maybe it doesn't. It says,
15:15
many years ago— back to the text— many years ago, one of the leading contributors
15:19
to this book came under our care, and while he,
15:23
he was there, he acquired some ideas which he put into practical
15:27
application at once. So I'm going to say
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hold this page, and I'm going to flip over to page 89.
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And on page 89,
15:39
first sentence of this, it says, practical experience shows nothing.
15:43
And you can highlight this or circle it.
15:46
Nothing is an important word. Will so much ensure immunity
15:50
from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. Practical experience.
15:55
So that's what it's talking about right here. Practical application at once. So helping
15:59
another alcoholic. And I don't care if your sponsor told you wait
16:03
a year. I don't care if the treatment center said whatever. This book tells me
16:07
when to go help people, and it's right now. And we're gonna talk a lot
16:10
about this as we're going through this, but that's an important thing.
16:14
And wherever these people came up with the idea of, man, you gotta
16:17
wait to do this 'cause you gotta work on you, man, you've been working
16:20
on you for your whole life. It's always been about
16:24
you, good or bad. But you put yourself at the utmost case,
16:27
at the top of the list for a long time. At least I did.
16:30
I don't know about you guys. Anyways, goes on
16:34
to say back on the text, and we're on XXVII. I'm gonna
16:38
try to keep up with these, uh, page numbers as we go along.
16:41
But says later he requested the privilege of
16:45
being allowed to tell his story to other patients here, and with some misgiving,
16:49
we consented. So hold the page right here, we're going to flip to 15.
16:53
And on page 15 Um,
16:58
it says in the first real, or first real paragraph,
17:02
and then at the pretty much the middle of it,
17:05
this is Bill talking about, this is in Bill's story.
17:09
So he goes on to say, I was not too well at the time.
17:12
I was plagued by ways of self-pity and resentment. I've heard a lot of people
17:16
talking about their problems, and I have problems, but you know, self-pity and resentment.
17:20
Then he goes on to say, this sometimes nearly drove me back to drink.
17:24
But then he goes on to say, but I soon found that when all other
17:28
measures failed, work with another alcoholic would save the day.
17:31
Many times, many times I've gone to my old hospital
17:34
in despair. On talking to a man there, I would
17:38
be amazingly lifted up and set on my feet. It is a design for
17:42
living that works in rough going. That's important
17:46
to look at because we're talking about what Bill was doing and He's
17:51
going back to the hospital he had just went to, and they let him go
17:53
talk to these guys because he was— man, he— and think about that.
17:57
Like, you know, you find this— you find this something out that's been a
18:01
problem. You've hurt so many people for years, and you find
18:05
this out, man. Like, why wouldn't you want to go tell somebody?
18:10
The cases we have followed through have been most interesting. In fact,
18:13
many of them are amazing. I have this highlighted
18:17
right here. The unselfishness of these men as we have come to know them,
18:21
the entire absence of profit motive,
18:25
and their community spirit is indeed inspiring to one who has labored long and
18:29
wearily in the alcoholic field. And I
18:34
have this highlighted in pink, and we highlight pink
18:38
in promises and prayers. It says, they believe in themselves and still more
18:43
in the power which pulls chronic alcoholics back from the gates of death.
18:47
And that's where I was at, in the gates of death.
18:51
Back to the text. Of course, an alcoholic ought to be freed from
18:56
his physical craving for liquor. And now we turn
18:59
the page, we're on XXVIII, craving for liquor.
19:03
And this often requires a definite hospital procedure
19:07
before psychological measures can be of maximum benefit.
19:11
So they're talking about like, you know, because And I've,
19:15
man, I'll tell you, you know, I've come down off alcohol a couple,
19:18
many of times, and it's not fun, right? The shakes,
19:22
the sweats. I was taking medications to try to like
19:26
offset the DTs. And so
19:30
it's talking about, man, like after like all that stuff goes on, right? Like that's
19:34
when the most, this stuff can be of maximum usefulness.
19:38
So back to the text, it says, we believe, and so suggested a
19:42
few years ago, that the action of alcohol in these chronic alcoholics is
19:46
a manifestation of an allergy. We talked about an allergy.
19:50
That the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never
19:54
occurs in average-tempered drinkers. I have all that highlighted, starting with,
19:59
chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy.
20:04
That the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class
20:08
and never occurs in average-tempered drinkers. So that's
20:13
the difference, right? The alcoholic and the non-alcoholic.
20:16
When I take sip, I want more. And if I don't
20:20
get more, I'm uncomfortable. And that doesn't happen in the
20:23
average temper drinker. The average temper drinker can have a couple and just
20:27
go about their business. And I think that's insane. I don't understand
20:31
that. I mean, I understand it since they're, you know, average temper
20:35
drinkers, but it doesn't make sense to me and what I can do with
20:39
a couple drinks. So that's, that's one of the,
20:42
uh, That is the difference. It says,
20:46
these allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any
20:51
form at all. And once having formed the habit
20:54
and found they cannot break it, once having lost their self-confidence,
20:58
their reliance upon things human,
21:01
their problems pile up on them and they become astonishingly difficult
21:06
to solve. Man, I was told one time, you know, it was like,
21:10
you know, if you're coming in here, Your problems are
21:13
10 times worse than they really are. That was true
21:17
for me. And it sucks doing
21:21
that, but what a cool thing we get to do and do this
21:25
and not hurt people and not ruin our lives
21:29
and our families and everybody in between.
21:33
It says frothy emotional appeal,
21:35
seldom. I have this actually highlighted in pink right
21:39
here. Because it's been
21:43
so true. It's kind of like a promise
21:47
to me. It says, frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices.
21:54
And so what that means is like,
21:58
what about the kids? He's got this good job,
22:02
right? What about the kids and the job and the wife?
22:06
And that's faulty emotional appeal. And, you know, it seldom suffices
22:10
for people like me. Maybe it does.
22:13
Maybe it's bad enough a little bit, but I
22:17
had to be hopeless. Anyways, it goes on to say, back to the text,
22:20
the message which can interest and hold these alcoholic people must—
22:25
I have circled must— have depth and weight. The message
22:30
which can interest and hold these alcoholic people must have depth and weight.
22:34
So, and that's kind of what we're doing here, right? Because like, I Man,
22:38
I have experience in the literature. I have experience in the hopelessness. I have
22:42
experience through this work. And when I come
22:45
to guys, that's what it's about. So my
22:49
message does have depth and weight to some people, maybe not to some others.
22:56
Goes on to say, back to the text, in nearly all cases,
22:59
their ideals must, circle must, be grounded in a power
23:03
greater than themselves if they were to recreate their lives. And that's
23:07
what we're doing here. We're getting the opportunity to recreate
23:11
our lives. And I think that's interesting. I know we're kind of looking ahead a
23:15
little bit, but on the 7-step prayer, if you've been around
23:19
this thing, you know some of this literature, it says, my Creator. And that's on
23:22
page 76. It says, my Creator.
23:25
We're recreating our lives and we're getting the opportunity to put our hand out
23:29
to help another man do that as well. How cool is that? It says,
23:33
if any feel that a psychiatrist directing a hospital for alcoholics,
23:36
we appear somewhat sentimental, let them stand
23:41
with us while we are on the firing line. See the tragedies.
23:44
See the despairing wives and the little children.
23:48
Let the solving of these problems become a part of their daily work and
23:53
even on their sleeping moments, and the most cynical will not wonder that
23:57
we have accepted and encouraged this movement. We feel after many years of experience
24:02
that we have found— and I had the rest of this, paragraph highlighted and nothing
24:06
circled. We found nothing which has contributed
24:10
more to the rehabilitation of these men than the altruistic giving
24:14
freely— pretty much giving, you know,
24:18
helping movement. Now they're growing up among them.
24:23
And the next 2 sentences I have highlighted and underlined
24:27
because this is such a powerful thing, right? Says men and women drink essentially
24:32
because they like the effect produced by alcohol.
24:36
I don't, uh, man, I was a— you know, I'm not racist or prejudiced
24:41
against any kind of alcohol. I'll drink anything that has a percent sign behind it,
24:44
right? And, um,
24:47
because I like the effect produced.
24:51
And I know people are probably, you know, can say, you know, they like the
24:54
taste of that, this or that. But I'll tell you, you know,
24:58
I was a whiskey drinker and, you know, there were some whiskeys that were
25:02
tolerable. But really, you know, think about taking a couple
25:06
gulps of that, full mouth gulps. You know,
25:10
there's nothing satisfying about that taste. I like
25:14
red Gatorade. I like the— actually, I like the light blue Glacier Gatorade.
25:18
I think that's amazing on a hot day. I really like water.
25:22
Um, I like a little flake, I like a little tea. Those are— those taste
25:26
good, but I drink because I like the effect produced.
25:30
I was sitting with a guy and he was telling me, like, you know,
25:32
likes the taste and he likes whiskey. And I
25:37
said, would you like, you know, do you take big sips? He said, no,
25:40
I can't do that. I can only take little, little bitty sips, but I
25:44
like the taste. And I was thinking, you know,
25:47
anyways, but I don't We got to a place,
25:51
I don't know if he even needs to be here, but that's okay.
25:56
But today I like the effect produced by this work and by taking
26:00
other men through this work. Goes on to say,
26:03
the sensation is so elusive that while they admit it is
26:07
injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true
26:10
from the false. And I have a little line beside that.
26:14
And we're going to connect these dots eventually, but insanity.
26:18
Differentiate. I can't differentiate the true from the false. I can't
26:22
see reality. My perspective is not there. I have a lack of proportion,
26:25
the ability to think straight. And underneath insanity, you can
26:29
just put page 37, and we'll get to that.
26:34
To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one.
26:39
And I have Man, the rest of this whole next paragraph is underlined
26:44
and highlighted, so you might as well just highlight and underline all of it.
26:49
They're restless, irritable, and discontented unless they again can
26:53
experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few
26:57
drinks, drinks which they see others taking with impunity.
27:02
Think about the rest. I think about— I was talking to a friend of mine
27:05
today and we were talking about you know, walking, being around,
27:08
you know, being in a bar, being around people getting drunk at a time,
27:11
you know, I didn't feel comfortable because I didn't like
27:15
them doing that without me. And I thought it was just about
27:18
fun, but it was about this sense of, you know,
27:21
restless, irritable, and discontented. And think— I think about that and think
27:25
about the feeling of after I've had a two— like one or two drinks,
27:29
and then I got— I had to quit drinking I still feel that restless,
27:34
irritable, discontented feeling. And through this book, there's some examples of
27:38
some alcoholics and some drinkers that talk about this nervousness disposition.
27:44
And then that sense of ease and comfort
27:48
after I take that drink. And it's interesting because think
27:54
about like an alcohol— for me, after I took that, I was sober for
27:58
some years and then I started drinking again. It's like I could breathe
28:02
again. My heart could breathe. My mind, my brain
28:06
could breathe. Today, man, I can breathe every day.
28:11
I don't think about drinking today, which is crazy.
28:16
So we're going to keep on reading. After they have succumbed to the desire
28:20
again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops,
28:25
they pass through the well-known stages of a spree.
28:29
Emerging remorseful with a firm resolution not to
28:32
drink again. This is repeated over and over.
28:36
Unless this person can experience an entire psychic change,
28:39
there's very little hope of his recovery. And all this is,
28:44
of course, highlighted, but I have underneath psychic change,
28:47
spiritual experience. And because if you hold this page and
28:51
you flip over to the first page of We Agnostics,
28:55
Page 44.
28:59
It says in the middle of the first paragraph, if when you honestly want to,
29:02
you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking you have little control
29:06
over the amount you take, you're probably alcoholic.
29:10
If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only— circle
29:14
which only— a spiritual experience will conquer.
29:18
So that's what this book says in this You know, this doctor's trying to write
29:22
this. Goes on to say back on the text on XXIX,
29:28
on the other hand, as strange as this may seem to those who do not
29:31
understand, once a psychic— and underline this in pink for
29:36
the rest of the paragraph— once a psychic
29:40
change— so change, you can just draw a line up to spiritual experience
29:44
above— once a psychic change has occurred This very
29:48
same person who seemed doomed, who had so
29:52
many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily
29:56
able to control his desire for alcohol. The only effort
30:00
necessary— so circle necessary being that required
30:04
to follow a few simple rules, and circle rules.
30:08
So much for all the suggestions, suggestion stuff. They're a little bit
30:12
straighter to the point, I think, back in 1939. But what
30:16
do I know? Back to the text. Men have cried out to me in a
30:20
sincere, despairing appeal. Doctor, I cannot go on like this. I have everything
30:23
to live for. I must— circle must—
30:26
stop, but I cannot. You must help me. Faced with this
30:30
problem, if a doctor is honest with himself, he must— circle must— sometimes feel
30:35
his own inadequacy. Although he gives all that is in him,
30:39
it often is not enough. One feels that something more than a
30:43
human power— so under— highlight the rest
30:47
of this sentence right here— that human power is needed to
30:51
produce the essential— circle essential— psychic change.
30:55
Human power, always beyond human aid. You know,
30:59
I would imagine human power is probably
31:03
everything human, right? The girl, the job,
31:06
The doctor, the lawyer, the judge, the prosecutor,
31:11
family meetings,
31:14
human power. That's what it says. I mean, I don't know.
31:20
Though the aggregate of recoveries resulting from psychiatric effort
31:24
is considerable, we physicians— circle must right now—
31:27
we physicians must admit we have made little impression upon
31:32
the problem as a whole. Many types do not respond to the ordinary psychological
31:36
approach. Goes on to say,
31:40
I do not hold with those who believe that alcoholism is entirely
31:44
a problem of mental control.
31:47
So if it was, like, if it was just mental control,
31:52
so if it was just mental control, right, then we could have just stopped.
31:57
If I could just have good enough willpower to do so,
32:00
right? And, you know, I did for like a couple days sometimes depending
32:04
on the, you know, what was going on. Oh, the girls, she's about
32:08
to leave me. Corey, you cannot drink anymore. I'm not
32:12
gonna be with you if you're drinking. I'd say, baby, I'm never gonna drink.
32:16
The job, they're like, you can't do this. You can't miss all this work.
32:21
I mean, you know, like the courtrooms, they're like, hey man, you gotta quit failing
32:25
these drug tests or you're going to prison.
32:29
Says, I do not— and then it goes on to say, so I have many—
32:33
I've had many men who had, for example, worked a period of months
32:37
on some problems or business deal which was to be settled on a certain date
32:42
favorably to them. They took a drink or so prior
32:45
to that date, and the phenomenon of craving at once became paramount to
32:49
all other interests, so that the important appointment was
32:53
not met. These men were not drinking to escape.
32:56
They were drinking to overcome a craving beyond their mental
33:00
control. And there was going to be examples in that and more about alcoholism,
33:03
right, of different types of people. And, you know, really the
33:07
differences is on like, it doesn't matter. Like, you know, that has one— a guy,
33:10
a guy, a guy aged 30, right? He quit drinking for 25
33:15
years dry, and then once he retired, he started drinking
33:19
again and died later. Then you have another guy on a perfect
33:23
day decided to have a cocktail, highball.
33:27
Then you have another guy that was having a bad day, right? You know,
33:30
so it doesn't matter. And you know, you hear these treatment centers
33:34
say some crazy stuff, and maybe it works for some people, but not for me
33:37
at least. And so maybe I'm bringing some opinion into
33:41
this, and that's okay. But they say this thing called
33:44
Hulk, and it's H-A-L-T.
33:48
Hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And they don't want you
33:52
to get in those states. And that's crazy, right?
33:55
Because like, I'm gonna get in those states. I'm gonna be hungry some days.
33:58
I'm going to be angry some days. I'm going to be lonely some days.
34:01
I'm going to be tired some days. But you know, I think back
34:05
about my drinking, and you know, I drank
34:09
when I was full. I drank when I was happy.
34:13
I drank when I was with people. I drank when I was wide
34:17
awake. I was even wide awake on certain substances to keep me more awake so
34:21
I could keep on drinking more. So me getting
34:25
in this feelings thing, right? This is like my
34:29
feelings are irrelevant. They're subjective in
34:33
this nature because my feelings are going to come. They're going to come and go
34:36
and I'm going to watch them and I can't get out of that.
34:40
But me doing this work is not subjective. It,
34:43
it's objective. It's real, and it's worked for millions of other people.
34:47
So why can't it work for me? And it has.
34:52
So this next paragraph, 2 paragraphs,
34:58
or 3 paragraphs really, are talking about the different types of
35:02
alcohols. And if you want to find yours in there, it's cool, but we're
35:06
going to read through here and find yourself in here. Says there
35:09
are so— and we're on XXX— there are so— there are many situations
35:13
which arise out of the phenomenon of craving which cause men to
35:16
take the supreme sacrifice rather than continue to fight.
35:21
And I think about what the supreme sacrifice looks like, and some people will tell
35:25
you— sorry, I got sidetracked. I'm gonna flip over here
35:28
to page 25. And I think about the supreme sacrifice,
35:32
and people will be like, you know, you're gonna go to, you know, what is
35:35
it, locked up or covered up or whatever that is. And that
35:39
says I have some power of what happens when I drink, but I'm
35:43
the sort that's powerless. So on page 25, it says,
35:49
we were in a position where life was becoming impossible
35:53
and we had passed into the region from which there is no return through
35:57
human aid. We had but 2 alternatives.
36:01
One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness
36:05
of our intolerable situation. Well, what's our intolerable situation?
36:09
That I can't stop when I start drinking, and after a period of time,
36:12
I still drink, and I keep messing things up.
36:16
As best we could. And the other was to accept spiritual help.
36:20
And I'll tell you, people in these rooms will tell you that, hey man,
36:23
we're going to mess up your drinking. And I say, I can drink. I have
36:27
before, and I say, I can drink past that. I can blot out
36:31
the intolerable situation as best as I could, and I can keep
36:34
on drinking. I can keep on doing the things I'm doing and hurting
36:38
people. So I don't really think to continue
36:41
to fight, the supreme sacrifice, I don't think that means death because
36:44
I think death is easy. I think prison
36:48
is escape too because then I don't have to deal with anything.
36:52
Maybe it's not, I don't know. I do know that,
36:55
like, what about— I mean, I met a guy. I was— I
36:58
do, uh, electrical and wiring, and we
37:03
were wiring up this, uh, traffic light one day, and this is 13
37:07
years ago, and this guy was panhandling. I asked him,
37:11
I said, man, how much money do you get a day from
37:14
panhandling? And he said, you know, I, uh, get $30 a
37:18
day. This is some years ago, so this makes sense how he
37:22
was able to do that. But he said, I get about $30 a day.
37:26
That's enough for a handle of whiskey, a pack of cigarettes, and something to put
37:29
on my stomach. And I guess I wasn't drinking as much at
37:33
the time. I mean, I wasn't up to a handle a day yet at the
37:36
time. And I thought that was kind of wild. But later on, I mean,
37:40
I got past that. And it makes sense to me.
37:44
Every day is out there, and I've already hurt everybody in my life.
37:48
And anybody that even comes into my life, I hurt them. And I just can't
37:52
even live with myself, and I'm just sitting on the street drinking myself away until
37:56
I die. That sounds a little bit worse than just a sudden
37:59
death or, you know, the other alternatives.
38:04
So back to the text on XXX.
38:07
It says, the classification of alcoholics seemed most difficult,
38:11
and much detail is outside the scope of this book.
38:15
There are, of course, the psychopaths, who are emotionally unstable.
38:19
We are familiar with this type. They're always going on
38:22
the wagon for keeps. They're over-remorseful
38:27
and they make many resolutions but never a decision.
38:31
You know, decision's a big thing, right? You know, being done for good
38:34
and all. So that's number 1. And yeah,
38:39
you can circle these, underline, highlight. You don't have to do any of that either,
38:42
but that's what's in my book. Number 2, there's the type
38:46
of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink.
38:50
He plans various ways of changing his brand or his environment.
38:55
Yeah, how many times I've tried every different kind of alcohol concoction and
38:58
different, you know, with this substance, without this substance,
39:02
with this amount. Yeah, I've tried everything, right? You know,
39:05
I was a whiskey drinker, but then I found that if I drank
39:10
you know, a handle of tequila, it didn't
39:14
have as bad as a hangover.
39:17
And then I went to vodka because, man, I was driving a lot and,
39:20
you know, I didn't want to get the DUIs. I didn't really—
39:24
I mean, like, vodka is a distinct smell. I don't know what,
39:28
what people are thinking. But anyways,
39:32
so it goes on to say it's number— the next one's number 3.
39:37
There's a type who has always believed that after being entirely free from
39:41
alcohol for a period of time, he can take a drink without danger. And after
39:45
being sober for some time and coming— you know, I believe that, you know,
39:48
if you have a lie, like if you've been sober for some time and you
39:52
go back to drinking, you've had to come up with a decent lie because
39:55
now you got some sense about you. And, you know, my lie was,
39:59
you know, because I was working out a lot, I still do, but Um,
40:04
I had some discipline at that time. And then
40:08
me and the doctor, we had talked about this, and we had kind of talked
40:11
a little bit about addiction and low testosterone and how those were correlated a little
40:14
bit. And I was convinced if I started taking testosterone supplements,
40:18
plus with my regimen— and now that I'm a good guy and I'm older now,
40:22
right, man, that stuff happened when I was young.
40:26
Um, that I'd be, you know, I'd be good this time.
40:33
Then there's the next one, number 4. It says, there is the manic-depressive
40:37
type who is perhaps the least understood by his friends and about whom
40:41
a whole chapter could be written. And I'm just going to take a guess because
40:44
the next chapter is Bill Wilson, and that's a whole chapter on him.
40:48
I'm going to take a guess that's about Bill Wilson. I'm not sure though.
40:52
Then there's number 5. Then there are the types entirely normal
40:55
in every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them. They're often
40:59
able, intelligent, friendly people. I think that's the type everybody wants
41:03
to be if they come in here. I guess I thought I was that
41:07
too for some time. And then there's a number 6, and they didn't put
41:11
this in here, I think probably because they didn't— it doesn't
41:14
really sound that good. But it says they're
41:18
never— there's number 6: they're probably never adjusted
41:22
to life, neurotics. The prognosis is unfavorable.
41:27
But, you know, it's kind of just the same as mentally disturbed.
41:31
Um, we're not going to go into it, but if you
41:34
write on to the left of your page right here, page 108,
41:39
and page 108's in To the Wives, but it gives you the direct— the
41:44
description of the 4 levels of alcoholism. And there might be more, but it
41:48
lists them in pretty good detail on page 108, 109,
41:51
110 about the different, like, kind of like 1, 2, 3, 4, the different
41:55
levels of of least to worst.
42:00
It says, and then it goes on to say in the paragraph,
42:04
it says, all these and many others have one, and I have this actually
42:07
in pink because this is important. All these
42:11
and many others have one symptom in common, one symptom.
42:15
They cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving.
42:20
This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an
42:24
allergy which differentiates these people and sets them apart as a distinct
42:28
entity. You know, over here I have the, uh,
42:33
definition of allergy.
42:36
There's a, there's a result after a substance or a medicine or a food comes
42:41
into your body. Some substance comes into your body. And to
42:45
know that, like, that's what happens, and why would I even do that in the
42:47
first place? And that's the mental side too.
42:52
Um, It has never
42:55
been by any treatment which— with which we are familiar
42:59
permanently eradicated. The only— says, I have this circled—
43:02
the only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence.
43:07
So I can't have a little bit. I can't just drink
43:10
a little bit and be okay. Um,
43:14
you know, me and my sponsor go into big, you know, arguments about this because
43:17
the doctor wrote this, right? You know, but this was approved by,
43:20
you know, And some people, I think, have taken— we
43:26
have a single list of purpose. We have the Fifth Tradition, right?
43:30
The single list of purpose, that there's
43:35
only one requirement for membership is the desire not to drink. It doesn't matter if
43:38
you do anything else and all this. And the Fifth Tradition to carry
43:41
this message to the alcoholic. So the alcoholic, that's important,
43:45
not just to the bank robber, right? To the alcoholic who still suffers.
43:50
There's a lot of debate in there with this. A lot of people talk about
43:53
this. And, you know, man, I found for me— and,
43:58
and this might not— people might not like this, but I found for me at
44:02
least that I have to practice complete abstinence of any mood or mind-altering
44:06
substance. And I'm not talking about caffeine and cigarettes, but that's
44:10
just me. But man, I'll tell you this, I'll sponsor anybody and
44:13
I will take anybody through this work, and I'd be so happy.
44:18
Man, to think that I haven't tried that,
44:22
any of it, right? I've tried them all. I've tried all of it.
44:26
And I just, you know, man, for me it didn't work. But, you know,
44:29
hats off to you if you can do it. It's impressive to me. And it
44:35
says, the only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence.
44:39
This immediately precipitates us into a seething cauldron of debate.
44:43
There he goes. Much has been written pro and con amongst physicians.
44:47
The general opinion seems to be that most chronic alcoholics—
44:50
I would have this underlined and highlighted— that most chronic alcoholics
44:55
are doomed. Next page
44:59
on XXI. What is the solution? Perhaps I can best answer this
45:03
by relating one of my experiences. And goes on to
45:06
say, about 1 year prior to this experience, a man was brought into the treat—
45:10
to be treated for alcohol— chronic alcoholism. He had but
45:15
partially recovered from a gastric hemorrhage and seemed to be a case of pathological
45:19
mental deterioration. He— and I
45:23
would, you know, a guy named Howard, he was going through this, and, you know,
45:26
this really stuck out to me the way
45:30
he did this. So I have all this underlined right here. He had lost
45:33
everything worthwhile in life, was only living might say to drink.
45:39
He frankly admitted, admitted and believed that for him there
45:42
was no hope. And I have a word above that, hopeless.
45:47
So you got the first thing, hopeless. Following the elimination of alcohol,
45:52
this— I got number 2 beside that— there
45:56
was found to be no permanent brain injury. I have
45:59
this underlined right here. He accepted the plan outlined in the book That's
46:04
number 3.
46:07
One year later, he called to see me, and I experienced a very strong,
46:10
strange sensation. I knew the man by name and partly recognized his features,
46:15
but there all resemblance ended. From a trembling, despairing,
46:18
nervous wreck had emerged a man
46:22
brimming, brimming over with self-reliance and contentment.
46:26
So you can call that a promise, but this is the promise of that
46:30
dude, right? Brimming over with self-reliance,
46:33
contentment. He used to be a despairing, nervous wreck, and I understand that
46:37
trembling, you know, my hands are shaking. Goes on to
46:41
say, I talked with him for some time, but I was not able to bring
46:43
myself to feel that I had known him before. To me, he was
46:47
a stranger, and so he left me. A long time passed with no return
46:51
to alcohol. Then I was talking to my buddy, and, you know,
46:55
we used to run around together and And I'm privileged enough to take him through
46:59
this work, took him through this work. And we're a
47:03
cool dude today. And because what we talk about is helping others, talk about our
47:07
kids, our family, how we can be better people.
47:11
And we were talking the other night and he goes, you know,
47:13
I'm still me. And I said, no, you're not.
47:19
Not at all. Not even close. You're not
47:23
who you used to be. I'm not. And he's not either because I'm around him
47:25
and I know. Um, anyways,
47:29
I think it's— it's what a cool deal. From the gates of death, you know,
47:32
recreating lives, right? What a cool thing.
47:37
Back to the text on XXXI, and then
47:41
goes on to say, when I need a mental uplift, I often think of another
47:44
case. And this is, uh, Fitzy. John Henry Fitz— Fitz—
47:49
who, uh, Fitz I
47:53
often think of another case brought in by a physician prominent in New York.
47:57
The patient had made his own diagnosis, and he, deciding his situation
48:01
hopeless, so he got one, had hidden in a desert barn,
48:05
deteriorated— determined to
48:08
die. I'm sorry. He was rescued by a searching party,
48:13
in our desperate condition, brought to me.
48:16
Following his physical rehabilitation— what is the physical rehabilitation?
48:20
The elimination of alcohol, right? He had a talk with
48:24
me in which he frankly stated he thought that the treatment a waste of
48:28
effort unless I could assure him, which no one ever
48:31
had, that in the future he would have the willpower. I have underneath willpower
48:35
knowledge to resist the impulse to drink.
48:40
His alcohol problem was so complex and his depression so great that we
48:43
felt his only hope would be through what we called moral psychology.
48:47
Underlined that and to the bottom of that say spiritual experience,
48:51
and we doubted if even that would have any effect.
48:56
Flip the page onto XXXII.
48:59
However, he did become sold on the idea contained
49:03
in this book. He has not had a drink for many years.
49:07
I see him now and then. He is a fine specimen of manhood
49:11
as one could wish to meet. I earnestly advise every
49:15
alcoholic— and I admit this is underlined and circled right here because,
49:19
you know, this is what I'm doing right here. And what we're doing here is,
49:23
you know, taking people through the work and through this literature to hopefully
49:27
they have a better idea of what we're doing and, you know, what's entailed.
49:30
Because, you know, it has the instructions of what to do, right?
49:36
And I earnestly— and what it says right here is, I earnestly advise
49:39
every alcoholic to read this book through and through.
49:44
And though perhaps he came to scoff, he may remain to pray.
49:49
William D. Silkworth, MD. You know,
49:52
when Silkworth gave
49:56
this up, he didn't sign it until
49:59
after some other people had had some thoughts about
50:03
this stuff until the 1950s. And on the second edition, he signed
50:07
it. Um, yeah, man, and I do pray
50:11
for you that you earnestly come to, you know, come, just come check it out,
50:14
to come to SCOPE. And, you know, you can ridicule it all you want,
50:18
and that's cool because it's worked for me. And I've heard countless
50:22
things of, you know, this program's a cult, or this
50:25
program's this, and man, I'll tell you, it's not. You know, we talked about
50:29
it in the Forge. You know, this is not a religious organization.
50:33
You know, this is about helping somebody that, you know, is— was in
50:37
a dark place just like me. And for me to have the privilege to
50:41
do that is overwhelming. How cool, man. I used to hurt
50:46
people all the time. You'll probably hear
50:49
me say some of my story while we go through this, but that's cool because
50:52
like my job now with my story, my life today,
50:56
is to be of service to the next man. Thank you guys for
51:00
your time, and we will start on Bill's story next week.