Latest / Daebak K-Rambles Podcast: K-drama Reviews / Pachinko (S2) | Full Season 2 Review / Ep. 85

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Pachinko (S2) | Full Season 2 Review / Ep. 85 · Daebak K-Rambles Podcast: K-drama Reviews

• 0:19
  I'm Jessica and this is Tiba K Rambles, where a couple of
• 0:22
  friends review Korean dramas and we're back for another season 6
• 0:26
  episode. We're going to review Pachinko
• 0:29
  Season 2. For this episode, I'm joined by
• 0:32
  Caitlin from No Sleeper Dramas Podcast.
• 0:35
  Hello Caitlin, how are you doing today?
• 0:38
  I'm good, I'm good. I'm very excited to talk about
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  Season 2. Because this ended up on the
• 0:45
  Drama Trio wrap up episode on Tea and Soju podcast that we
• 0:49
  did, this was tied with your number one drama of 2024.
• 0:54
  And ironically, both of my number ones were American
• 0:58
  produced dramas. Yeah, your typical Korean
• 1:05
  produced or whatever produced, but yes, this was tied with #1.
• 1:09
  So I was like, Caitlin, we got to get together, we got to do a
• 1:12
  review on Season 2 of Pachinko because I did a review on Season
• 1:16
  1-2, well, three years ago now, but two years ago in 2022.
• 1:21
  And I remember immediately I pressed publish on that and then
• 1:24
  I went on a vacation. So that's how I remember my
• 1:28
  podcast episodes. I was like, oh, that came out
• 1:30
  before this vacation. You can see I really love taking
• 1:33
  my PTO. But so that episode featured the
• 1:38
  ladies over on Crash Landed on K dramas and they so graciously
• 1:42
  joined me for that episode. It was really chaotic.
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  I was the only one who had not read the book, but the rest of
• 1:48
  them had read the book. And so they had a very unique
• 1:50
  different perspective than I did.
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  And on this go around, I was like, Caitlin, let's talk about
• 1:57
  it because I know that you loved it.
• 2:01
  Absolutely. I know that you loved it and you
• 2:03
  probably have a lot to say. You want to get off your chest
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  about Pachenko. I've stayed up till 2:30 in the
• 2:08
  morning so watch it and we're prepped and ready.
• 2:11
  On this thing I watched it while it aired.
• 2:14
  So I did not binge this but I watched it while it aired.
• 2:17
  I binged it. I mean, story of my life, I I
• 2:21
  binge it. But before we get into our deep
• 2:25
  dive, if this is your first time listening, go ahead and
• 2:27
  subscribe on your favorite podcast app or on Apple podcast,
• 2:30
  Spotify, Google podcast and many more.
• 2:32
  And if you like us, please give us a five star review on Apple
• 2:34
  podcast or Spotify. That goes such a long way for
• 2:37
  us. Come check us out on social
• 2:39
  media to stay up to date on our latest episodes and reviews.
• 2:42
  You can find me on Instagram and Facebook basically right now at
• 2:46
  Debakpod DAEBAKPOD. Lastly, if you're a fan, please
• 2:51
  consider becoming a patron. It's a great way for you to get
• 2:54
  involved and show your support. You can check out the page on
• 2:57
  patreon.com/debakpad and shout out to our patrons Janet Curtis,
• 3:01
  Bale, CD, Cindy, Alana, Grace, Lorna, Sammy, Caitlin, Julia #1,
• 3:07
  Michelle, Tanayi, Marta, Delphia, Maria, Sarah, Julia #2
• 3:11
  and Pam. Thank you guys so much.
• 3:15
  All right, Are you ready? Are you?
• 3:17
  Are you sat? Yeah.
• 3:18
  Caitlin Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready.
• 3:20
  Bet. So here is the Google Wikipedia
• 3:23
  synopsis that I edited down two years ago for Pachinko.
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  It is basically the same synopsis all right, it's just a
• 3:32
  continuation of the story, but here it is.
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  Based on the New York Times best selling novel of the same name
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  by author and journalist Min Jin Li.
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  Pachinko is an American TV drama, a sweeping saga that
• 3:42
  chronicles the hopes and dreams of a Korean immigrant family
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  across 4 generations as they leave their homeland in an
• 3:49
  indomitable quest to survive and thrive.
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  Season 2 aired last year, 2024 from August to October.
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  Season 1 aired from March to April 2022 and both seasons or
• 4:05
  each of the seasons is 8 episodes long.
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  The directors for this season are Leanne Wellam, Arvin Chen
• 4:14
  and E Sangeel. They have each directed about 3
• 4:17
  episodes. Leanne directed the 1st 2:00,
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  Arvind directed the next 3345 and Sangiel directed 6-7 and
• 4:25
  eight. The showrunner saw series
• 4:28
  creator is Suhyu. She has been a writer for The
• 4:31
  Killing and she wrote Pachinko season 2 along with eight other
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  people per the IMDb. You can tell this was a writer's
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  room. The starring cast we have a lot
• 4:42
  of returning actors. Kim Minha plays Sunja, Imanno
• 4:47
  plays Hansu, Yunya Jung plays Sunja, the older Sunja, and Gina
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  plays Peck Solomon. There's a lot of cast members in
• 4:59
  there in here. Like there's a 1989 cast,
• 5:02
  there's a 1945 cast, and there's just so many people on this
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  roster that it would take us forever to kind of go through
• 5:11
  everybody and what they've done before.
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  So did you recognize anybody from this cast or did you want
• 5:17
  to talk about anybody in particular?
• 5:18
  I think I heard that you're a Lehman Ho fan.
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  Of course, I mean, yeah, there's a ton of people in this cast,
• 5:26
  whether you're a like, obviously if you're AK drama watcher,
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  you're going to recognize a lot of people, like supporting lead
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  people. I mean, they pulled everybody in
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  pretty much, old and small. The actors who play the
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  children, you would recognize, the actors you play like sister
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  in But even like Yu Yun Jung on
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  she's been around forever, like forever.
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  And you would recognize her from her movies.
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  I mean, she was. Did she?
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  I think she won the Oscar from the for Minati I think.
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  She yeah, I was about to say, I know she was nominated, but I'm
• 6:19
  pretty sure she won the Oscar too for that movie, which is a
• 6:22
  big accomplishment within itself.
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  So yeah, I mean, I I definitely recognize a ton of people just
• 6:29
  from watching K dramas. Yeah, and Anna.
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  So why? Yeah, Anna.
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  So why I did not know her before Pachenko?
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  And then of course she was in Shogun and that she got a bunch
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  of Emmys and stuff for that and nominations well deserved,
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  Absolutely. And she should be getting awards
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  for this show as well. But I did not know her before
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  Shogun and Bachenko. I know she's done another movie
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  on Apple TV that I really want to earn a show that I really
• 6:58
  want to watch. The monster one I can't remember
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  the name of. Godzilla.
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  It's a Godzilla thing, right? It's like Monarch, monarch,
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  something like that. I really want to watch that.
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  So she's in that. But I mean, you got the guy from
• 7:11
  Kingdom, for example, the the gun runner guy from Kingdom.
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  You got Jung UN Che who's been in, I think she was with Eamon
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  Ho in King Eternal Monarch. I'm sorry, the guy.
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  I did not mean to laugh. Just straight up like King
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  Eternal monarch. All right?
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  No. Yeah, you.
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  Got no no song Hyun, the guy who plays he was in the Love and the
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  big City movie today or this year in the.
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  Past year keeping good yeah he he's doing making the rounds and
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  I really like No Song Hyun. Yeah, me too.
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  He. Plays pick Issac or Isaac.
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  I guess is the equivalent English name, but yeah, he's
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  really heartbreaking. He's such a heartbreaking figure
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  in this show and I called him Reverend Hottie in the Season 1
• 8:03
  review. I mean, you're not lying, no.
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  No, it's just like all came flooding back when I press play
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  on episode 1. I was like, where's Reverend
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  Hottie? All right, Kim.
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  The last person I'll point out is Kim Kong Wun, who plays Peck
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  Noah as a teenager or as a preteen or something.
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  He is pill Goo from When the Camellia Blooms.
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  And I was like, Oh my God, it's pill goo.
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  Tell me why I he will never outlive that child's role that
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  he did when the Camellia Blooms. When I saw him, I was like, Oh
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  my God, I'm getting old. I'm ancient because pill goo is
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  grown. It was hard, all right?
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  So I think the only fun fact that I have that's kind of
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  leftover from Season 1 is, according to The Hollywood
• 9:00
  Reporter, the show has a budget comparable to The Crown, which
• 9:03
  reportedly cost a hefty $13 million per episode.
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  I suspect it's that same budget or even more for this.
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  Season, yeah. It's, you know, prestige
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  television. Apple TV Plus is the platform
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  you can watch it on, and that's the distributor.
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  It's an original Apple TV Plus show.
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  Caitlin, what'd you think? Would you think of the show?
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  Oh, I absolutely loved it. The 55 Soulju bottles, Like I, I
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  literally had, I mean, I had little qualms with it, mostly
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  because I haven't read the book. So like, I didn't know what to
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  expect. I didn't know what was going to
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  happen. So I wasn't necessarily, like,
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  my qualms weren't necessarily with the acting or the story.
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  It was more of, God, this character made a horrible
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  decision, but it's what happened apparently in the book, or I
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  mean, they did take liberties, but it wasn't necessarily
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  anything to do with the show, you know what I mean?
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  It was. Yeah.
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  So I absolutely loved it. I mean, when I when Season 1
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  aired, that was my top show of the year as well.
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  So it made perfect sense. Why Pachinko Season 2 was my top
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  show of 2024, along with Shogun, if anybody was wondering what it
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  was tied with. So I Yeah, And that's why like,
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  literally was my girl in 2024. But yeah, I I loved it just as
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  much as I did in season 1. I really actually was afraid I
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  wasn't going to like it as much as Season 1 because you know,
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  you always have those like worries of season twos might not
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  be like there's a term for that, you know, where the season twos
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  don't live up to season ones. And I can't remember what it's
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  called. But I was worried about that.
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  And I don't know why I was worried, because I had nothing
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  to worry about. Yeah, there's a pervasive curse
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  on season twos on multi season, especially Asian dramas, right,
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  Which historically have been limited series, as we call them
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  here in the US. You get a certain number of
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  episodes, it's a full story arc, and then that's it, you're done.
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  You'll see these actors in their next drama and you don't return
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  to the same story, the same world.
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  Pachinko is the ideal Season 2 because it had source material,
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  it was based on the book, and Season 1 did not cover the full
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  extent of what happens in the book.
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  So there's going to be more story to cover.
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  It's not like they're the season was a success runaway success
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  and they green lit a season 2 when there is no source material
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  to back up the plot or the justify another season Shogun.
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  So I was not mad that Pachinko got a season 2 because I was
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  like OK Lord of the rings 2 towers.
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  It's continuation of the story, like not done.
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  So I was excited to come back to this.
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  I wanted to watch this earlier in 2024 and didn't get around to
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  it. Then the holidays rolled around.
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  What who's going to watch anything around Christmas to New
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  Year's? And I really, really liked this
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  show. I, I thought it was another
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  excellent pachinko season and I loved the actors.
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  I, I didn't realize that I had missed them and miss these
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  characters and this type of storytelling until I press play
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  and I was like, I just like sink into my chair, you know what I'm
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  saying? Like it was sort of comforting.
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  This level of prestige television.
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  We do get it quite a bit here in the US, but because we're often
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  watching K dramas, J dramas, Chinese dramas, we this type of
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  storytelling really appeals to the Western audience, right?
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  And it's sure it's made by Apple TV.
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  Plus it's got a lot of Western talent behind or, or even mixed
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  talent, right? You know, Asian American talent
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  behind the camera. I thought this show was
• 13:13
  devastating. Like, everything about it is
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  just going to push you to think. And you know, we're products of
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  the Western education system. And so the US is like the hero
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  in every story. And of course, every country is
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  going to do the same thing and tell history from their
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  perspective. That's granted.
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  I'm not saying the US is unique in any way by doing that.
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  Right. But to see World War 2 from this
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  lens was very impactful. It was very moving.
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  Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
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  And I, I'll repeat what I said in Liliana's podcast when I was
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  explaining why I love this show. I do not think any other country
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  could have made the show. It would have, It would not have
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  been the same. It would have been just maybe
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  just as a impactful if like Japan had made it or Korea had
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  made it, but it would not have told the same story.
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  Especially with the World War 2 stuff, even like living the
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  future parts of this, because you said it was a multi
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  generation thing. So when you're dealing with the
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  older generations in the 80's, the present day, that type of
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  thing, that perspective of a foreigner living in another
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  country I think is uniquely told.
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  But I think it can't be told the same from a American perspective
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  or Korean perspective or whatever.
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  Which I think is why I love this show too so much because you can
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  appreciate the story that is told from the American or the
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  Korean American or the Japanese American perspective and learn
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  so much from that. Especially because it is a multi
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  generation. So you do have that perspective
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  of Koreans living in Japan, vice versa.
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  Yeah. Americans living in Japan, like
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  a Korean American living in Japan like that is uniquely an
• 15:23
  American perspective that I don't think Korea or Japan, if
• 15:28
  they made this show, would be able to capture because it's a
• 15:31
  different way of thinking when you are Asian American moving or
• 15:37
  living in a foreign country. And I'm specifically talking
• 15:40
  about like the future generations.
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  Like obviously when it's World War 2 or whatever, they aren't
• 15:45
  Korean American. But even that perspective, I
• 15:50
  don't think that same story would have been told in the same
• 15:52
  way if it was done by Japanese production company.
• 15:55
  Oh well. So there's a whole conversation
• 15:57
  that we're not having about how Japan is not going to
• 16:03
  acknowledge the crimes that were done.
• 16:07
  I mean, not that the US is also to blame for a lot of stuff, but
• 16:13
  the Japanese government is really content to just not
• 16:17
  address the atrocities that were committed during wartime.
• 16:23
  And that's really tough to reconcile with that in 2025 and
• 16:29
  be like all the good things about the culture, but the bad
• 16:34
  things, they just, they're like, there are no bad things about
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  Japan. I don't even know if I'm making
• 16:42
  any sense but like. You are, I mean to me you are.
• 16:44
  OK. All right.
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  So the global gas lighting that I guess Japan really employs
• 16:51
  today makes me think that a production of this magnitude
• 16:56
  would not be sincere coming from a Japanese.
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  It probably wouldn't be made. Honestly, it probably wouldn't
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  be made in Japan at all. And there's some jabs to America
• 17:09
  in Season 2. Exactly, absolutely.
• 17:12
  Like what? That's, I think that's what I
• 17:14
  loved about this show is like they try to be as authentic as
• 17:18
  possible, showing these generations on what they went
• 17:22
  through and what they are currently going through because
• 17:24
  it's a present day thing too. I think it shows a level of
• 17:27
  respect of trying to show the common person living in these
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  eras and these generations and what they're dealing with and
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  really showing that no matter the era, there is some
• 17:40
  commonalities on what they're dealing with, with
• 17:44
  discrimination or gender role or that type of thing just centered
• 17:50
  around this one family growing up.
• 17:51
  And I, I loved that about it. And again, I think that was
• 17:55
  uniquely something America can do just from the melting pot
• 18:00
  that America is and the rich Asian American history America
• 18:04
  has both for the good and the bad, obviously, because America
• 18:07
  does have, as you said, we are not angels at all.
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  And I fully, fully agree with that.
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  So I just think this story could not have been told as beautiful
• 18:19
  and as impactful as it has been from anybody else.
• 18:23
  I think there's something very special about it and something
• 18:27
  very impactful that I don't think would have had the same
• 18:30
  impact anywhere else. You mentioned generational
• 18:34
  trauma and this tying generations together right
• 18:40
  between Sunja leaving her home in Korea to forge a new life in
• 18:44
  Japan all the way to the present.
• 18:47
  Like everything is interconnected.
• 18:49
  And I love this running theme throughout the show of that each
• 18:53
  generation successively has it as as technology progresses and
• 18:58
  economies progress and just the passage of time, each
• 19:03
  generation, it doesn't have to go through what the previous
• 19:06
  generation went through. But despite the older generation
• 19:10
  seemingly feeling like they have it so easy, and yes, we do have
• 19:13
  it super easy compared to 2040, sixty years ago, each generation
• 19:19
  has their struggles and it ties them together and binds them and
• 19:25
  makes them see each other differently and recontextualize
• 19:31
  how they feel about what they're going through.
• 19:34
  And I think that's what that's a main storyline.
• 19:37
  And when it comes to some of the future generation stories is
• 19:40
  like some people are dealing with the fact that they are a
• 19:45
  foreigner living in a country and they're trying to be more
• 19:48
  Japanese or trying to be more like they don't like their home
• 19:53
  culture. And I mean, I think that again,
• 19:55
  coming back from America, I, I am white as can be.
• 19:59
  So I obviously can't feel like this but I've heard stories of.
• 20:03
  Asian Americans growing up hating that they're Korean or
• 20:07
  hating that they're Japanese because of what they deal with
• 20:11
  on a daily basis at school or work like discrimination stuff.
• 20:14
  So it's interesting to see the complexity of that thought from
• 20:22
  a like, I'm specifically talking about Solomon.
• 20:25
  Yeah, Solomon. I think in season 2 it didn't
• 20:28
  show as much because he started kind of appreciating his
• 20:31
  culture. But in season 1 he was really,
• 20:34
  really troubled with him being a Korean living in Japan and
• 20:37
  wanting to be Japanese, but feeling guilty about that be
• 20:42
  knowing or somewhat knowing. He learned more about the
• 20:45
  history, but somewhat knowing the history between Japan and
• 20:48
  Korea. I think that that was just
• 20:52
  really impactful on the story. And I'm sure I'm, I'm, that's
• 20:56
  what I've heard from other people who've watched the show
• 20:59
  who are Asian American of like, that's my story.
• 21:02
  That's my thing that I've had growing up, that I've had those
• 21:06
  thoughts. I've had to deal with that.
• 21:08
  Yeah, the racial discrimination aspect, which in the United
• 21:11
  States, if you say racial discrimination like stop, drop
• 21:14
  and roll, we see things in terms of black and white over here in
• 21:18
  large part. But to see who we perceive to be
• 21:22
  very similar cult like from the West, I'm like, oh, Japan and
• 21:26
  Korea have a lot in common. And yes, that's due to their
• 21:29
  history and their bad history of colonization and occupation,
• 21:34
  right? But they're very near to each
• 21:36
  other and to me. Like you can boil it down to
• 21:40
  some commonalities between the cultures, but to see them go
• 21:45
  deeper and really showcase this racial discrimination in the
• 21:49
  80s, just 40 years removed from the war and the proceeding war,
• 21:56
  which was the Korean War, it's pretty harsh.
• 22:00
  I, I feel like we're kind of tranquilized over here to this
• 22:04
  nuanced struggle of racial discrimination and how it
• 22:08
  appears in Japan. And you know, sometimes it's
• 22:12
  overt, sometimes it's really subtle in this time period
• 22:18
  again, which I love that they said it in the 80s and, and
• 22:21
  sure, like you can do the math and be like, OK, the grandchild
• 22:25
  of Sunjai should be of age around this time in the 80s.
• 22:31
  But the 80s were such a like, I think of the 80s and I'm like,
• 22:35
  what a prosperous time, right? Oh, absolutely.
• 22:38
  Yeah, Yeah. In Japan as well as America,
• 22:41
  there was, it was economic boom. Yeah, in both.
• 22:45
  So I like that this Solomon character is difficult, right?
• 22:51
  Like he is a yummy. Yeah, He wants to be successful
• 22:56
  in the corporate world in real estate, and he's not.
• 23:01
  Ethical right? Absolutely.
• 23:04
  He's kind of unlikable. Yeah, Oh yeah, I mean,
• 23:08
  especially in season 1. But yes, definitely he's he's a
• 23:12
  weasel. Yeah, he's a weasel.
• 23:14
  And then you're like, but I want to like him because he is facing
• 23:18
  these insurmountable odds of trying to make it as a Korean in
• 23:23
  a Japanese business world. And then juxtaposing not with
• 23:28
  what you see with his grandma's story, You're like, the weight
• 23:31
  of history is weighing him down. It's not on his side.
• 23:35
  And so you just kind of feel a little helpless.
• 23:38
  And I would say my one criticism is that I personally, with my B
• 23:44
  brain, had trouble figuring out who people were in the 80s in
• 23:48
  that timeline. I was a little bit struggling
• 23:51
  with who is Yoshi? And like, what does that person
• 23:54
  do? Were they in Season 1?
• 23:55
  And I didn't remember a lot of detail from Season 1.
• 24:00
  So I was really struggling with the business side of what
• 24:04
  Solomon was doing. Like I got the broad strikes,
• 24:08
  but I was kind of like, Bo, who is this person?
• 24:11
  Are they yakuza? I was like kind of lost a lot of
• 24:14
  the time. Yeah.
• 24:16
  But overall, personally, the 1940s were captivating.
• 24:22
  Oh yeah, that part of the. Story.
• 24:24
  Was so transporting and maybe it's because I like a period
• 24:28
  piece and like the 80s is not. To me.
• 24:30
  The 80s is not as much of A period piece as something said
• 24:32
  in the 40s during World War 2. But yeah, I gravitated more
• 24:39
  towards Sunja's story, where she's coming from as a mother
• 24:43
  and these struggles, specifically being a mother and
• 24:46
  being the main breadwinner and doing a lot of traditionally
• 24:51
  masculine things like putting food on the table and paying
• 24:56
  bills and paying off debt from male characters.
• 25:00
  And she's got so much on her plate.
• 25:04
  Solomon comes across as very ungrateful a lot of the time.
• 25:09
  So these two characters I've gravitated more towards.
• 25:12
  Sonja Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think this was part of
• 25:16
  the thing when it came to the generational trauma.
• 25:21
  It was very clear Sonja did not talk about her past at all.
• 25:25
  And so of course, he has no idea for the most part what she went
• 25:30
  through. So of course he's ungrateful.
• 25:32
  Of course he has no idea. And I don't think he cares to
• 25:35
  know. That's the thing.
• 25:37
  I don't think he cares to know. And maybe he knew a little bit
• 25:41
  in terms of like his education or something.
• 25:43
  But again, he grew up in Japan. How much of an education from a
• 25:47
  Korean perspective would that be?
• 25:49
  You know, and we got a thing of that with some of the 1940s
• 25:53
  education scenes with the kids. Yeah.
• 25:56
  I mean, I don't think he didn't have the knowledge to have
• 26:00
  sympathy for. But I also, I don't think he
• 26:03
  cared enough to have sympathy for that because he was, he was,
• 26:08
  he's very selfish. He's a selfish character.
• 26:11
  He cares about me, myself and I and I think that a huge part of
• 26:15
  this entire story is him connecting more with his Korean
• 26:20
  culture and gaining some of that sympathy.
• 26:24
  But it, I mean, he still has a long way to go.
• 26:27
  I mean in season 1 he had a lot of he made a lot of improvement,
• 26:32
  but in season 2 he still was his selfish person and then he
• 26:37
  learned more. To that end, I would say I also
• 26:40
  like this running theme of revenge.
• 26:43
  And do you forgive someone who wronged you even though they
• 26:48
  don't deserve it? I mean, they haven't asked for
• 26:51
  forgiveness, right? Or even if they have, why would
• 26:54
  you grant them that forgiveness so easily without kind of like
• 26:57
  making them work for? But that's a whole concept.
• 26:59
  That's a whole thing of forgiveness.
• 27:01
  It's not going to make sense juxtaposing that with Solomon,
• 27:04
  who is actively going for revenge.
• 27:07
  Yeah, I mean, he got fired, and now he wants to stick it to the
• 27:12
  man. And he goes about it in a very
• 27:16
  weaselly way until his grandmother steps in.
• 27:20
  And this is like, dude, you're Korean.
• 27:25
  You have to think about this a little.
• 27:27
  Which, I mean, he still gets his revenge.
• 27:30
  He's still. He's still, in a way.
• 27:33
  I've always supported revenge revenge stories.
• 27:36
  I love them, I think they're incredibly entertaining.
• 27:40
  But this really convicts you as a person who is supportive of
• 27:44
  revenge. Yeah.
• 27:47
  Because the what is the benefit to the person exacting the
• 27:52
  revenge? Like it's very corrosive to that
• 27:56
  person, to their spirit, to their moral code.
• 28:01
  To their life. I mean, he, he, he lost
• 28:04
  everything in the name of revenge.
• 28:07
  And yeah, you have to think, was it worth it?
• 28:11
  Is it worth it? Exactly.
• 28:12
  Is it worth? It to do all this for hate the
• 28:17
  older generation and especially Issac that character Reverend
• 28:21
  Hottie. That lesson that he teaches them
• 28:24
  early on in the show is consequential.
• 28:28
  And, you know, it was kind of flagrant, like, right, Right in
• 28:31
  your face. Like, it's very remarkable.
• 28:35
  And it's foreshadowing, right? Like what?
• 28:37
  What choices will future generations make?
• 28:40
  Did he sow that seed on fertile ground?
• 28:43
  Right. Are the kids going to really
• 28:44
  take that to heart? Yeah.
• 28:45
  So just gifted storytelling throughout.
• 28:49
  Absolutely. I I did not read the book even
• 28:52
  in the two years since season 1 came out.
• 28:55
  Same. Sorry.
• 28:57
  Sorry, but before we go into the spoiler section I want to say
• 29:00
  like we are appraising this based on the show, what we saw
• 29:06
  on screen and how it made us feel and react.
• 29:10
  And really the book has not at this point.
• 29:13
  This is a totally different text.
• 29:15
  Oh yeah, yeah. And I know that the Season 1
• 29:17
  review that I did on the Tebuc feed, all of my guests had read
• 29:22
  the book and they had different things to say, had different
• 29:25
  complaints about the show. And that's fine.
• 29:28
  That's not our perspective. Absolutely.
• 29:30
  Yeah. You know, I think we can
• 29:32
  evaluate the show based on what what we saw on screen, what was
• 29:37
  delivered to us and not based on, oh, but the book was this.
• 29:40
  Oh, but in the book, it was like this.
• 29:42
  Oh, I didn't like because the book was.
• 29:44
  We're not doing that in this Season 2 review, so just want to
• 29:48
  manage expectations here. If you read the book and you
• 29:52
  want to hear someone's perspective, there's certainly
• 29:54
  got to be a podcast out there for you.
• 29:56
  This Season 2 review is not it. So that being said, is there
• 30:01
  anything else you want to say in the non spoiler section before
• 30:04
  we give our soju bottle ratings and move to the spoiler section?
• 30:09
  No, I'm good even though I already gave my soulju.
• 30:11
  OK, yeah, five. OK, mine I'll give.
• 30:15
  I'll give 4/4 and 1/2 only because again, I was a little
• 30:19
  bit lost in the 80s with the business aspect and what was
• 30:25
  going on and who some of these characters are.
• 30:27
  I like couldn't keep it straight in my head.
• 30:29
  And it might have something to do with they have different
• 30:31
  names, like multiple names I should say.
• 30:35
  And that was throwing me. And I also thought even though
• 30:38
  the cinematography is beautiful, I love it.
• 30:40
  I thought it was too low light, which is similar to season 1.
• 30:44
  The aesthetic is just carried through.
• 30:47
  But I still thought it was too dark in a lot of places.
• 30:50
  So I lighted up a little more. Like personally, again, this is
• 30:55
  all personal. This is all subjective.
• 30:57
  But those are my couple of nitpicks.
• 31:00
  And then we can get into the spoiler section right after
• 31:04
  this. Excuse me, Bora, Go.
• 31:07
  I can't tell. I can't tell you know.
• 31:10
  I have no Jingle. Oh, sorry.
• 31:13
  Swear discussing shots. What?
• 31:20
  All right, we're on the other side of spoilers, so we're going
• 31:22
  to spoil what happens in Season 2 of Pachinko.
• 31:26
  I think I want to start just in episode 1 because they hit you
• 31:29
  upside the head with it's World War 2 and the text is shown on
• 31:33
  screen as being World War 2 in English.
• 31:36
  And then underneath they have the Korean and Japanese
• 31:39
  translation cycling through. But I thought it was intentional
• 31:44
  that they kept the English on screen towering over the other
• 31:48
  languages. The other translations I don't
• 31:50
  know. I found it very poetic because
• 31:52
  of the US planes flying overhead and how the US ended the war
• 31:56
  with controversial but a strong response.
• 32:00
  The A bombs and it's towering over the Koreans and Japanese.
• 32:05
  That to me was them saying that even just in the text that
• 32:09
  America is going to like tower over these two nations.
• 32:13
  And I thought just from the gecko I was like, well here we
• 32:18
  go. Like great poetic side of cars
• 32:21
  and stuff. I love how we see more
• 32:26
  differences between the two brothers.
• 32:28
  Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:31
  So these two and this is also in the 40s, right?
• 32:34
  You see them in school and they're getting bullied and the
• 32:38
  younger one was last two is audacious and proud to be Korean
• 32:43
  and he's explaining to the class why he's eating what he's
• 32:46
  eating, his stinky food quote UN quote.
• 32:49
  And Esac is more passive, more non confrontational, preferring
• 32:57
  to ignore the haters who accuse him of living with pigs.
• 33:02
  I'm sorry Noah. I mean Noah Esac is not a Noah.
• 33:06
  So it's Noah and Musasha already getting it wrong.
• 33:08
  You see, there's too many names. Noah is talking to the teacher.
• 33:14
  The teacher says anger comes from feeling so powerless here.
• 33:18
  And basically the best way to not be bullied is to not be
• 33:21
  Korean, even if only in his imagination.
• 33:24
  And I was like, that's a wild thing to say.
• 33:26
  Like, he's just like, you're always going to be bullied.
• 33:29
  You're always going to be lesser because of who you are.
• 33:32
  Your entire identity is at odds and the people here feel
• 33:37
  powerless, so they're going to take it out on someone who's
• 33:41
  less fortunate that they are. Yeah, and with the oncoming war,
• 33:44
  that's just going to get worse. Yeah.
• 33:46
  I loved his relationship with his teacher.
• 33:48
  I mean that reveal was very impactful.
• 33:51
  I don't think it happened in episode 1 but like the reveal of
• 33:56
  the the storyline a lot in season 2 for Noah was him kind
• 34:00
  of in parallel with Solomon from season 1 is dealing with the
• 34:05
  fact that he's Korean living in Japan.
• 34:10
  Obviously a different era, whatever, but the relationship
• 34:14
  he has with his teacher given the reveal that his teacher is
• 34:18
  also Korean, but you wouldn't know because his teacher changed
• 34:23
  his name and basically changed his entire demeanor in a way.
• 34:29
  I think that reveal was very impactful on Noah, which caused
• 34:33
  the rest of his storyline in season 2, which broke my heart a
• 34:38
  lot. Yeah, the only way you're going
• 34:41
  to get a leg up is if you pretend to be Japanese.
• 34:43
  You deny yourself. Right.
• 34:46
  And I think he's, as you said, like he's very different from
• 34:49
  his brother, where his brother obviously is getting bullied and
• 34:54
  understands to an extent what that means and why they're
• 34:59
  getting bullied. But he is still a kid.
• 35:02
  He's still, I mean, he Noah is so much older than him.
• 35:06
  So I think Noah is a dealing it with it longer than him
• 35:10
  obviously in this World War Two time period, but BI think he's
• 35:16
  just not. He still has that like innocence
• 35:20
  about him of being a kid and still dealing with it, which
• 35:24
  Noah obviously doesn't have any more.
• 35:26
  They obviously deal with the bullying in a different way.
• 35:31
  And you can see how much each generation and even between the
• 35:35
  brothers who do have a large age gap between them and what is
• 35:38
  that like 5-6 years or something between them.
• 35:41
  Something like that, yeah. How they successively get more
• 35:44
  shielded? Right.
• 35:46
  From the real big picture and the negativity surrounding their
• 35:52
  identity and their their race right?
• 35:56
  And even just between them like right the younger 1 is like I
• 35:59
  don't give a shit I am Korean and what of it doesn't really
• 36:02
  grasp how pervasive and embedded this discrimination is, this
• 36:08
  hatred is. Or even how if you meet the
• 36:10
  wrong person you can get killed for just being Korean.
• 36:13
  Like it? I don't think it has hit him
• 36:17
  hard enough or he understands the magnitude of the hate of
• 36:22
  being Korean in Japan at that time specifically.
• 36:25
  And you shouldn't have like he's a kid.
• 36:27
  Like that's not something a kid should have to understand.
• 36:32
  And I think also with Noah, it to an extent Noah because of
• 36:35
  his, the what was your nickname, Reverend?
• 36:40
  Hottie. I think also the fact that
• 36:43
  Reverend Hottie has been gone for six years now, maybe I think
• 36:48
  it's like 6 years. He's had to grow up, he's had to
• 36:52
  raise his family. He's had to become like, to an
• 36:56
  extent, the man of his household in a way.
• 36:59
  And I think that has also caused him to grow up sooner than he
• 37:04
  should have and made him realize society as it is, which I'm sure
• 37:11
  Sunja did not want him to do. Like she wanted to shield them
• 37:16
  from the atrocities of being Korean in Japan because she's
• 37:20
  dealt with it. Yeah, you mentioned something
• 37:22
  about him being the eldest and having all this responsibility.
• 37:25
  That's also a through line throughout the story that the
• 37:29
  eldest has all of these expectations and the
• 37:32
  responsibility of caring for the family, and he gets preferential
• 37:37
  treatment for even just them serving.
• 37:39
  Who's gets served first at the dinner table?
• 37:43
  It's Noah. Yeah.
• 37:45
  And the little boy was actually like, he definitely picks up on
• 37:49
  that. Yeah.
• 37:51
  He picks up on the fact that they're not treated the same,
• 37:54
  right? It is like a little on a global
• 37:57
  scale. Younger siblings don't have the
• 38:01
  same experience as elder siblings.
• 38:04
  And there's always that joke of like, you know, the little
• 38:07
  brother, the youngest, they are coddled.
• 38:10
  That is here, too. Like, that's part of the whole
• 38:14
  dynamic as well is that he's just younger.
• 38:17
  He's the baby of the family. He's going to get more
• 38:21
  privileges than the elder. Right.
• 38:23
  Yeah. So I love the cultural subtext
• 38:26
  that they keep calling attention to It is that the elder
• 38:31
  culturally is the caretaker of the family.
• 38:34
  They're the ones that have to keep this thing going.
• 38:37
  And the younger 1 does not have that same responsibility of
• 38:41
  being the man of the House of taking care of mom in her old
• 38:45
  age and so on and so forth. It is a a yoke that he has.
• 38:51
  And he is so responsible and sensitive and feeling no way is
• 38:57
  was actually this, you know, free spirit and more aggressive
• 39:03
  and fun loving. And he's just very simple and
• 39:06
  innocent. And yes, he's coddled, yes, he's
• 39:08
  shielded and they just keep it going like throughout the show
• 39:13
  and into when he's a teenager. Like he still doesn't have the
• 39:17
  same demands as Noah. Well, and I think I think that
• 39:21
  responsibility might have been on Noah again, things happen
• 39:26
  where it's like if World War 2 never happened, maybe it would
• 39:29
  have been different. If their father figure hadn't
• 39:33
  been sent to prison, maybe it would have been different.
• 39:36
  Like, there's so many circumstances that happened
• 39:39
  between Season 1 and Season 2 that could have changed the
• 39:43
  trajectory of his life, which makes it like even more sad in
• 39:48
  terms of his life. But also like Sonja's family in
• 39:52
  general. If you think about it, if one
• 39:55
  thing hadn't happened, this thing wouldn't have happened,
• 39:59
  you know, And it would have it for the better or worth, you
• 40:02
  know, like if something worse would have come along if World
• 40:06
  War 2 didn't happen or something and affected her family, you
• 40:09
  know? And I think that that makes it
• 40:11
  even more sad, is like it, the combination of things that have
• 40:15
  happened in this family's life through the generations.
• 40:18
  While impactful, I mean this family's story is overall a sad
• 40:23
  story like especially the historical parts of it.
• 40:27
  It was not a fun time for them living in Japan between World
• 40:33
  War 2, the aftermath of World War 2, her life in season 1 and
• 40:39
  becoming pregnant without getting married.
• 40:41
  Like the the impact of that on her life.
• 40:44
  Yeah, the scandal. Sonja's life has been extremely
• 40:48
  hard, and that is a thorough line throughout the generations.
• 40:53
  Yeah. Is that?
• 40:54
  She that's something she kind of without knowing it, without
• 40:57
  wanting to, she passes that on. Right, exactly.
• 41:02
  So let's talk about Lehman Hoe because we get a lot more of him
• 41:05
  in Season 2 then did in season 1.
• 41:09
  I feel he's basically like an arms dealer.
• 41:13
  His father-in-law is the head of the Yakuza.
• 41:17
  I don't even know, like it's really not spelled out in the
• 41:20
  show exactly who the father-in-law is.
• 41:24
  But to me, he's. Definitely Yakuza.
• 41:27
  He's definitely right. I don't think he runs the entire
• 41:30
  Yakuza, but like he's definitely a prominent figure in Yakuza.
• 41:34
  OK, that's what I thought. That's that's what I gathered.
• 41:37
  Because Lehman Hill is over here.
• 41:38
  He's like an arms dealer or something.
• 41:40
  He's supplying minerals and and metals to the Japanese
• 41:44
  government so that they can make arms for the war effort.
• 41:49
  And he's got a reputation for being vicious.
• 41:52
  And look, I I don't understand why people were shipping Lee Min
• 41:58
  Ho is Sanja. I don't either, not at all.
• 42:01
  I mean, I get like, their chemistry, Yeah, they have
• 42:03
  chemistry, sure. But like, sure, on this plain
• 42:07
  simple thing, she said in Season 2 multiple times, we can't be
• 42:12
  together. I don't want to be with you in
• 42:15
  so many words, so many times. And this.
• 42:17
  Isn't one of those words like oh, but she really does want to
• 42:19
  be with him and they can make it happen and and there's a future
• 42:24
  for them. No, no, no, no.
• 42:28
  Like that is not the read that I think you should have on this.
• 42:34
  And maybe it's because a lot of K drama girlies were watching
• 42:37
  season 2. I think so.
• 42:40
  I if whether you had read the book or not but I don't know if
• 42:43
  there's a blinders here because it's it's Imano but like
• 42:47
  probably I watched the show, binged it and could not fathom
• 42:53
  shipping Imano with. Socha right, He's a.
• 42:58
  Or Hansu. His character's name is Hansu.
• 43:00
  Sorry, Hansu. Yeah, he's toxic.
• 43:04
  He's toxic there. It's the type of character that
• 43:07
  you love to hate. It's a guilty pleasure
• 43:10
  character. Sure, sure, guilty pleasure
• 43:12
  character. And I think a lot of people
• 43:13
  might have been hoodwinked by the fact that he keeps helping
• 43:17
  Sunja. But again, you got to dig a
• 43:20
  little deeper than just like, oh, he's hoping he's a good
• 43:22
  person. No, no, no.
• 43:26
  Yeah, that is not the He's already he groomed her in Season
• 43:32
  1. She was a teenager.
• 43:34
  Right. He was a fully grown man who
• 43:37
  groomed a teenager, got her pregnant and then left her
• 43:43
  because she would not be his mistress.
• 43:46
  Yeah, he has kids and a wife back in Japan.
• 43:49
  Kids and a wife back in Japan. That's a villain.
• 43:53
  And his wife is the daughter of a major yakuza member.
• 43:57
  Like he can't leave this family no at all.
• 44:00
  Like there's no way this is ever going to work.
• 44:03
  The other thing I found really interesting, which I loved about
• 44:06
  season 2 too, is not only are you getting discrimination with
• 44:11
  Sunja's family, but you also are kind of getting an insight of
• 44:15
  discrimination of him marrying into this prominent Japanese
• 44:20
  family, which we've never. I don't, you can correct me if
• 44:24
  I'm wrong. I don't think we've ever seen
• 44:26
  his wife or kids in either season.
• 44:29
  Correct. No, I don't think so.
• 44:31
  OK, I don't Yeah, I I was trying to think back on.
• 44:34
  See, I don't think he, which is funny, hysterical, because you'd
• 44:38
  think he'd help his wife and kids to get out of that area in
• 44:42
  World War 2, but Nope, he goes running the Sunja.
• 44:47
  I mean, but it's like, yeah. So I found it really interesting
• 44:50
  that we even saw like the discrimination aspect within his
• 44:54
  own storyline, which I don't know if it's in the book.
• 44:57
  I mean, I've heard they've really, really added stuff to
• 45:00
  his character between Season 1 and Season 2.
• 45:03
  I do not know if that part is in the book or not, but I found
• 45:07
  that even. Like it's like one of those.
• 45:09
  Yeah, it's like 1 of like he definitely married into his
• 45:12
  family to survive like that. It was that was from season 1.
• 45:16
  He did it to gain power, did it to survive.
• 45:19
  And it's like no matter what you do, no matter how high you rise,
• 45:24
  you are still dealing. Like you could have the
• 45:26
  strongest yakuza behind you, and because you married in their
• 45:30
  family, you're still Korean. You're still dealing with the
• 45:34
  discrimination these people have against you.
• 45:38
  I like that. I like that he is kept under
• 45:43
  under foot right the whole time. He's in that family.
• 45:45
  He's kind of a second class citizen.
• 45:48
  And he owns the house. You know what I'm saying?
• 45:51
  Like he runs the town. Yeah.
• 45:55
  It's wild. I love that aspect where he is
• 45:59
  constantly vying for power buying to be recognized.
• 46:04
  And at this point, it's not necessarily about survival.
• 46:07
  It's about ego. Yeah.
• 46:10
  Because he knows he's going to eat.
• 46:12
  Yeah. Right.
• 46:13
  He knows where his next meal is coming from.
• 46:15
  But despite being in bed with the yakuza, literally, he's
• 46:20
  like, I need to assert myself. It's about these infractions on
• 46:26
  his ego, and it's pretty fragile.
• 46:29
  Like I think that. Oh, definitely.
• 46:31
  He's also a villain because he's a narcissist.
• 46:34
  Yeah. The other thing I think it was
• 46:36
  like there's two things also going off of your point too, is
• 46:40
  like how could people ship them one and a big prominent one,
• 46:45
  which I think people are kind of forgetting.
• 46:47
  A prominent comment I saw throughout the show as it aired
• 46:51
  is people wanted them to like get their happy ending.
• 46:56
  And I'm like, and I'm like, guys, look at the present day.
• 47:01
  Is she with him? Is she like married?
• 47:05
  Is she together with anybody? Clearly, either he's dead or
• 47:11
  they just didn't get together and he's nowhere to be found.
• 47:16
  I mean, maybe he comes back later.
• 47:18
  I don't know. I, I again, we didn't read the
• 47:19
  book, but it's like even just from like the present day, you
• 47:23
  can tell they don't have a happy ending.
• 47:26
  Like her entire life is not a happy ending.
• 47:28
  I love when they do that in shows.
• 47:30
  Yeah, You can see in the future generation, she, I mean, she's
• 47:33
  content, but she has a lot of baggage.
• 47:36
  She has a lot of history there that she is dealing with and
• 47:38
  trauma that she's dealing with across the board.
• 47:42
  And clearly she's not with Hansu.
• 47:44
  So obviously that was not a thing.
• 47:47
  Two though, in season 2, going back to like the Yakuza thing in
• 47:52
  season 1, yeah, he was a problematic guy, like really
• 47:56
  problematic. I feel like as you said, in
• 47:59
  season 2 he is becomes a villain.
• 48:01
  He is goes deeper into the crime syndicate.
• 48:05
  He kills his father-in-law at one point.
• 48:09
  Yeah, because he had a common though.
• 48:12
  He had it coming, obviously, but he used the shadow of war to
• 48:16
  hide to get his revenge. To stage a coup.
• 48:19
  Yeah, to stage a coup, he used that.
• 48:22
  He's an opportunistic narcissist and he has accepted his role in
• 48:29
  this crime syndicate. The further the season goes
• 48:32
  along. Sunja is never going to let her
• 48:37
  children near that guy, like ever.
• 48:39
  Or herself, if she has to say single for the rest of for life,
• 48:42
  that is going to happen. That dude is descending into the
• 48:47
  crime syndicate that he has created and was married into,
• 48:51
  and he has accepted that role by the end of.
• 48:55
  Indeed, indeed, indeed. It is unfathomable for me to
• 49:00
  watch season 2 and come out being like they could have made
• 49:02
  it. I really I I couldn't wrap my
• 49:05
  end around it, especially because of the conversation that
• 49:09
  he has with the older brother who comes back from Nagasaki
• 49:13
  Yoseb. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, OK, so.
• 49:17
  That guy which we had to talk about, that whole.
• 49:20
  We do. We do, yes.
• 49:22
  But that guy, he Lehman Ho sits down with him.
• 49:27
  I'm sorry Hansu, I keep saying Lehman Ho.
• 49:29
  But I mean I'm sure people that are listening will just
• 49:31
  understand the actors real names, especially his name.
• 49:35
  But Hansu is there when this guy wakes up, when Yosef wakes up
• 49:41
  and he has this really crazy conversation with him, which is
• 49:47
  really one sided because it's a lot of like posturing and and
• 49:53
  power play between these two men.
• 49:56
  And who is lording over this family?
• 49:59
  Who is the head of the family and who has the right of way
• 50:03
  here to make decisions about the family?
• 50:07
  And how dare you be here and insert yourself into this family
• 50:12
  when you've caused so much hurt and pain.
• 50:14
  You're the one who impregnated Sunja.
• 50:17
  You're the dad who's barely paying child support.
• 50:20
  You know what I'm saying? He's paying it in a lump sum
• 50:22
  just by saving their lives in World War 2, right?
• 50:26
  Lumen Hill says. I was the one who saved you.
• 50:29
  I saved so many of your family and not from any goodwill.
• 50:33
  Sonja and Noah compelled me because they are mine.
• 50:38
  And I like that quote because I think in his mind, he doesn't
• 50:44
  care about them. He has no, he has no feelings
• 50:46
  about them. They are property and they're an
• 50:49
  extension of his bloodline. Yes, like that's what they are.
• 50:53
  Yes, I cannot scream yes enough because you nailed it.
• 50:59
  And if people were watching up to this point and shipping those
• 51:03
  two characters, Sunja and Han SU, they should have gotten to
• 51:06
  episode 5 when this happens between Han SU and Yosef and
• 51:12
  been like, never mind, never mind.
• 51:17
  Because again, and this was all you could read this on Lehman
• 51:20
  Ho's performance and in all of the behind the scenes, so to
• 51:25
  speak, of him with his father-in-law at home, how he
• 51:29
  treats even the servants in the house.
• 51:32
  You're like, he is an asshole. Yes, he's got a sob story.
• 51:36
  Everybody's got a sob story. Right.
• 51:39
  Yes, he's a victim of the times. Everybody's a victim of the
• 51:42
  times. Yeah.
• 51:44
  But how does he handle it? He's not righteous.
• 51:48
  He has a motive. Self-serving.
• 51:51
  He's selfish. He's selfish.
• 51:53
  It's goes beyond survival. He's not doing anything out of
• 51:56
  the goodness of his heart. Correct.
• 51:58
  So crazy, crazy mentality on Lehman Ho and on people who are
• 52:03
  shipping Lehman Ho's character. With Sunja, yeah.
• 52:08
  Now I will say I'm a huge Eamon Hill fan, as we know.
• 52:11
  I've I he was my first. I watched Boys Over Flowers.
• 52:15
  That was how I got into it. I've seen most of his dramas.
• 52:19
  I still love even though his character is horrible, I love
• 52:24
  the fact that he took this role. It was one.
• 52:28
  This is the role. Didn't he?
• 52:30
  If I remember correctly, is like his first role he had to
• 52:33
  audition for in like 10 years or something.
• 52:37
  Like really really long time. Yeah, I can't remember if the
• 52:40
  story. Is he?
• 52:42
  No, I think he did. They made him audition and he
• 52:46
  could have chosen. OK, never mind.
• 52:47
  I'm not going to audition. Don't want it that bad.
• 52:49
  Not hurting for cash right now. Yeah.
• 52:53
  Because I can't imagine how many scripts come across his desk.
• 52:56
  Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. But he's at the stage in his
• 53:00
  career and in his fame where he can do anything great.
• 53:05
  Exactly. He can do anything he wants, but
• 53:08
  he chose to do pachinko and this egotistical narcissist.
• 53:12
  Horrible, man, horrible. And I think that was the plan.
• 53:15
  I think he read the script and is like, this is a character
• 53:19
  that I've never done because I'm always portrayed as the Prince.
• 53:26
  Yeah, Or has a a clownish rich man.
• 53:29
  And sure, this Hansu is rich, but there's so much depth there
• 53:35
  and so much to latch on to. He's bamboozling people.
• 53:40
  Evidently just by his mirror casting that.
• 53:44
  Oh, he can't be that bad. It's Lehman Ho he's playing.
• 53:46
  It's played by Lehman Ho, right? It's stunt casting.
• 53:51
  Yeah, so I love, I love that he took his role because it's
• 53:55
  definitely a role that I think expanded his acting chops and
• 54:01
  also was fun for him to do because he's never done this
• 54:05
  type of role before, like villain role before.
• 54:08
  Also he looks really good in 1940s.
• 54:12
  You have. You have to admit that I really
• 54:16
  like that. Yeah, yeah.
• 54:18
  Talking about World War Two, though, the cinematography when
• 54:22
  it came to like the bombing and the the attack part of the 1940s
• 54:29
  was amazing. It was heartbreaking, but it was
• 54:32
  amazing. It was.
• 54:33
  I like I I remember watching the trailer.
• 54:36
  Also side note, trailer Rose's. Cover of Coldplay.
• 54:42
  Of Coldplay. Oh my God, like when the trailer
• 54:46
  first aired and I was like OK, I recognize this song.
• 54:50
  Who is singing this song? What is this song?
• 54:52
  I literally found like a someone had put the song on YouTube
• 54:57
  against pictures of Rose. It was like nothing special.
• 55:00
  I probably listened to that video over and over because I I
• 55:05
  became obsessed with that song. It's a good one.
• 55:09
  It's really good. I really wish she would release
• 55:11
  it, like actually release it or Pachinko would put.
• 55:15
  I don't think Pachinko Season 2 either has released an OST album
• 55:19
  yet or I don't think it was or it wasn't on their OST album, I
• 55:23
  can't remember. But anyway, when they first
• 55:27
  showed the scenes of war, like the little snippets they had in
• 55:31
  the trailer of the World War 2 scenes, because the whole
• 55:34
  trailer was like really calm and really like going along with the
• 55:39
  song. And then when as it rised in the
• 55:42
  intensity, it would kind of do flashes of the World War twos
• 55:47
  and the danger that was going to go and you could tell it was
• 55:51
  going to be a completely different story than what it was
• 55:53
  in Season 1. I was like, oh shit, like we are
• 55:58
  in for a wild ride in Season 2. And I was excited for the World
• 56:04
  War Two parts just because I was intrigued by what kind of
• 56:07
  perspective we were going to get.
• 56:10
  And that's the thing I want to, I want to latch on to what you
• 56:13
  said about perspective because I have lost track of how many
• 56:16
  World War 2 movies the US has put out.
• 56:19
  OK, it is done. It is beat to death.
• 56:23
  I just feel like the US is obsessed.
• 56:28
  Maybe, maybe Hollywood is obsessed with World War 2.
• 56:31
  I totally understand that. It was a global tragedy.
• 56:36
  Every so many countries were involved. the US, Pearl Harbor,
• 56:39
  I get it. I get it.
• 56:41
  There's a lot of fodder there for storytelling.
• 56:44
  I have, Mcfuckin had it with World War 2 movies.
• 56:48
  Yeah. So for this World War 2
• 56:51
  portrayal to be so special and keep me engaged and show
• 56:56
  something that I hadn't seen before, I'd love to see it.
• 56:59
  Love to see it. Great job.
• 57:00
  Great. Right.
• 57:02
  Yeah, and the fact it was on ATV show and not a movie was
• 57:06
  impressive within itself. Yep.
• 57:09
  So let's jump to 19. This is still episode 1.
• 57:11
  We've been jumping a little bit around the episodes, but in
• 57:14
  episode 1 we have this scene in 1989 of racial discrimination at
• 57:19
  the bakery. And I just thought.
• 57:23
  Oh my heart. Broke my heart but if only this
• 57:25
  was 2024 it would have gone viral with a video.
• 57:31
  But yeah you know this is beyond the pale.
• 57:35
  Like they just didn't. They assumed she was Korean
• 57:39
  based on how she spoke Japanese over the phone right?
• 57:42
  Fucked up with her cake that she ordered and was going to pay
• 57:46
  full price for right? And they said, Oh well.
• 57:50
  Exactly. Oh, well, you're Korean, learn
• 57:52
  Japanese. I couldn't understand you over
• 57:55
  the phone. And it was it Like it rocked me.
• 57:59
  And of course, Solomon goes ape shit.
• 58:02
  There's a crash out in the bakery.
• 58:04
  He ends up saying to Sunja, his grandmother.
• 58:07
  I can't live. Always feeling sorry for you.
• 58:11
  Yeah, which I was just like, you bastard.
• 58:15
  That was just like, seriously, you were getting mad at the
• 58:19
  wrong person here. Two things.
• 58:22
  Solomon is also an asshole, yes, but he's also touching on
• 58:29
  something about how the current generation can't always live in
• 58:34
  self pity and wallow in trauma that didn't happen to them.
• 58:39
  Right. True, true.
• 58:40
  So I understand where he was coming from, where he's like, I
• 58:44
  can't always, we can't just live in the past and I can't always
• 58:49
  live my life as if I'm struggling, right, because I'm
• 58:53
  not. I mean, I think he also was
• 58:56
  telling her you should have stuck up for yourself.
• 58:59
  Exactly, exactly, because I can't always stick up for you,
• 59:04
  right, You need to set boundaries.
• 59:08
  It's been he's like it's been 40 years, like get some gumption,
• 59:12
  handle this business of being racially discriminated in
• 59:17
  public, right, because this this is ridiculous.
• 59:20
  So I understand like on multiple it's it's a lot of facets to
• 59:25
  this attitude that he's showing to his grandmother, which is
• 59:28
  very disrespectful, super disrespectful.
• 59:31
  Would I ever say that to my grandma?
• 59:32
  No, but you know, the sentiment is understandable.
• 59:40
  But yeah, don't say that to your grandparents.
• 59:43
  And oh also in episode 1, even though get Sunja out of prison
• 59:50
  because she got arrested in a raid on the black market, they
• 59:52
  were going to start selling rice wine, which is illegal.
• 59:55
  I guess there's a bit of a prohibition thing happening
• 59:57
  here. I don't know what the details,
• 59:59
  but he gets a route. He's known her whereabouts, had
• 1:00:03
  his man Taylor for years, knew she was selling rice wine, knows
• 1:00:08
  his son Noah's not applying himself at school.
• 1:00:12
  That Noah's teacher is secretly Korean and pretending otherwise.
• 1:00:16
  Full on soccer. Full on soccer.
• 1:00:19
  Yeah, yeah. Episode 2 even though finally
• 1:00:23
  gets E Sock out of jail. Oh my God, I bawled my eyes out.
• 1:00:28
  This was. My first cry My first cry of
• 1:00:31
  Pachinko was episode 2. Like ever.
• 1:00:34
  Like even Season 1. Oh no, I think I cried in season
• 1:00:36
  1. I can't remember where I.
• 1:00:37
  Cried I'm about to say Oh my God I sobbed in season 1 so but I
• 1:00:41
  know but like. I didn't cry on episode 1 but
• 1:00:44
  episode 2 of season 2 I cried. But like everything with E sock.
• 1:00:49
  Oh, I was sobbing. I, like, couldn't catch my
• 1:00:52
  breath. Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  So I was trying so hard. I have the line from E Sock here
• 1:00:57
  that says, you see, a person who is truly rich is not somebody
• 1:01:00
  with money, but someone who is loved because Masashu.
• 1:01:06
  Wow, did I say that right, Moses?
• 1:01:09
  I'm struggling today. Anyway, the younger sibling, the
• 1:01:14
  younger kid is saying, oh, you grew up in a in a big house with
• 1:01:19
  lots of rooms, you know, lamenting the fact that they're
• 1:01:22
  poor. And Isaac is like, I grew up in
• 1:01:25
  a house with lots of rooms and it was a big house, but it I
• 1:01:29
  don't miss the house. He misses the people inside it.
• 1:01:33
  Important lesson, important lesson to teach a child.
• 1:01:39
  And the other lesson that he teaches is for Noah, because
• 1:01:43
  that motherfucking pastor turned Isaac in to the authorities.
• 1:01:50
  Look, I would have gotten now kind of Monte Cristo style.
• 1:01:52
  Like I would have of course rocked that pastor.
• 1:01:56
  Pastor who? Oh my God, he should have been
• 1:01:59
  counting as these. But the face off in that cramped
• 1:02:04
  room and how they filmed it by Lantern Isak is like, no way you
• 1:02:09
  stay. I want you to see that this
• 1:02:11
  whole encounter and the pastor saying, no, I didn't dislike
• 1:02:17
  you, I despised you. I'm sorry.
• 1:02:21
  It was so shocking. It was terrible to witness this
• 1:02:25
  pure jealousy rolling off of this pastor, like he's just been
• 1:02:30
  masquerading this whole time as if he's a good person and
• 1:02:34
  saying, oh, love came easily to you, Isaac.
• 1:02:38
  And I was abandoned by my parents.
• 1:02:41
  And Pastor, you took me in. But I sense that he loved you
• 1:02:46
  more. Like it was crazy work.
• 1:02:49
  Yeah. Crazy inferiority complex.
• 1:02:51
  And then I also just felt like so bad for Noah, too, because in
• 1:02:57
  the six years that Esock was in prison, Noah really leaned on
• 1:03:02
  this guy. He really wanted this dude to
• 1:03:05
  become like a father figure to him.
• 1:03:08
  Such a betrayal. And.
• 1:03:10
  Such a betrayal of. Trust.
• 1:03:12
  It was so bad. Yeah, because they cut to Noah
• 1:03:15
  looking incredulous, looking at him with disdain after, and this
• 1:03:20
  is especially after Pastor, who says that he prayed for him and
• 1:03:24
  was hoping for his release, yadda yadda yadda.
• 1:03:28
  And the pastor looks over at Noah, and Noah is like you son
• 1:03:32
  of a bitch. Yeah, yeah, it was I and I, like
• 1:03:38
  I, like we didn't. I did not see it coming either.
• 1:03:41
  I just thought they would never reveal why Isaac was in prison.
• 1:03:46
  Like I didn't really expect to find out.
• 1:03:49
  And all of this is juxtaposed against 1989, so you have this
• 1:03:54
  really unsatisfying forgiveness in the 40s and this unbelievable
• 1:03:59
  grace that Esock extends to the pastor who doesn't deserve it.
• 1:04:04
  Right. Yeah.
• 1:04:05
  You have this juxtaposed against 1989, where Solomon is in full
• 1:04:09
  rage, wanting to get back at the man who did him wrong.
• 1:04:14
  I'm like, this is powerful. This is great storytelling.
• 1:04:17
  This is a plus. Plus, no notes.
• 1:04:21
  Yeah, because he's talking with the old lady who refused to sell
• 1:04:24
  her property from Season 1. So he goes to visit her.
• 1:04:28
  He's talking about who am I to talk about it, I guess meaning
• 1:04:34
  all of this stuff that's unsaid about the war years and about my
• 1:04:39
  struggles. He says who am I to talk about
• 1:04:42
  it? I have no idea what suffering
• 1:04:43
  is. And he goes on to have this
• 1:04:45
  pretty insightful pity party about he's how he's perceived by
• 1:04:49
  this lady and his own grandmother Sunja, because he's
• 1:04:53
  never been hungry. He can't even imagine being
• 1:04:56
  hungry. He's not had to struggle.
• 1:04:59
  His life is incredibly easy. And he says to the old lady, you
• 1:05:03
  must despise me and think your suffering was all for this, for
• 1:05:08
  this guy to have this cushy life and still not be satisfied.
• 1:05:13
  And she rocks him back with she's lived a good life, a life
• 1:05:18
  well lived, and she doesn't regret any of it.
• 1:05:22
  Like in so much as you think she's wallowing and can't get
• 1:05:26
  through the trauma of the past, she doesn't regret anything.
• 1:05:31
  Right. I think that's the same
• 1:05:33
  sentiment Sunja has, which her grandson doesn't think that.
• 1:05:39
  Yeah, So this difference in the generations, I love juxtaposing
• 1:05:43
  them against each other and the forgiveness versus the revenge
• 1:05:49
  in the present day, I'm like. Oh, good shit.
• 1:05:52
  Good shit, right? Yeah, I sobbed in that goodbye.
• 1:05:55
  I saw it in the goodbye. It was so sad.
• 1:05:59
  I like knew it was coming too. It's like one of those things
• 1:06:02
  where you're like. He ain't gonna make it this.
• 1:06:06
  Dude is gone. He's a goner.
• 1:06:10
  I mean, you all know Hansu got him out of prison because he
• 1:06:14
  knew he was going to die like. Oh yeah, Hansu only plucked him
• 1:06:18
  out of prison because she wouldn't leave the city.
• 1:06:21
  She wouldn't leave Osaka without him.
• 1:06:23
  Yep. And so Hansu was like, damn, I
• 1:06:27
  got to get this fool out. And yeah, even Hansu I don't
• 1:06:30
  think would have restored him whole.
• 1:06:32
  Oh, absolutely not. No, because he's so vile.
• 1:06:36
  Yeah, yeah. And then of course, the second
• 1:06:41
  that he's cremated, the sirens start and they have to get I.
• 1:06:44
  Don't think the flames even reached his flesh.
• 1:06:47
  I don't think so either and she refuses to leave until she has
• 1:06:53
  those ashes. It's like she still refused to
• 1:06:56
  leave. Like even even when he brought
• 1:06:59
  him back and she was able to say goodbye and we're still like
• 1:07:04
  dragging her out of there. Yeah, but it goes to show how
• 1:07:07
  much she respected, loved and honored him.
• 1:07:10
  And I love that. So I feel like we could do like
• 1:07:14
  30 minutes more on this. But here's the last thing that I
• 1:07:17
  have in my notes for it is Isak says to both of his sons, which
• 1:07:22
  he accepted Noah as his own son. Like genuinely thought of him as
• 1:07:27
  his own son. And both of them, he tells them,
• 1:07:31
  my son's a broken body with broken bones.
• 1:07:34
  That is all I have to give to you.
• 1:07:35
  But Even so, remember this, that pastor's fate and ours is
• 1:07:39
  tightly wound together. Noah, know that mercy isn't a
• 1:07:43
  power, nor is it a reward. True mercy is acknowledging that
• 1:07:48
  there's a price, a cost, that it's attached to survival.
• 1:07:51
  But just remember this, no matter where you are, no matter
• 1:07:55
  what, you are my sons and I am your father.
• 1:07:59
  Tears already. I was crying.
• 1:08:01
  Tears already then so and just says goodbye to Esau laying on
• 1:08:05
  the ground. God, her last word.
• 1:08:09
  I was literally like like that kind of crying, 'cause she goes
• 1:08:13
  I. Could literally start crying.
• 1:08:15
  I'm like thinking about, yeah, my God, she goes.
• 1:08:18
  To be loved and to be honored by my husband.
• 1:08:20
  It has been everything to me. I was full on crying.
• 1:08:24
  I was full on crying. He tells her to find somebody
• 1:08:26
  else, find someone else because you have all this love to give.
• 1:08:29
  And she was like, why would I do that?
• 1:08:33
  And honestly, like my own grandmother and grandfather on
• 1:08:37
  my dad's side, they were married for like 50 years and this reeks
• 1:08:43
  of old school love, if that makes any sense.
• 1:08:46
  Like my grandmother did not obviously remarry after 50
• 1:08:49
  years, but I couldn't even fathom it either because they
• 1:08:54
  were so connected at like a soul level.
• 1:08:57
  So these two, I mean, despite the circumstances of her, you
• 1:09:02
  know, her having a child out of wedlock and stuff, he loved her
• 1:09:06
  like he. Right, right.
• 1:09:08
  Yeah. He loved her, she grew to love
• 1:09:10
  him, and he was a solid, solid marriage.
• 1:09:14
  Yeah, well, I mean, I think also in this scene, what really broke
• 1:09:18
  me was his begging to live. Oh my God, stop.
• 1:09:21
  I was. Just like, Oh my God, it was
• 1:09:24
  like being stabbed in heart with like every line of the scene
• 1:09:29
  because it was. Just why he was like I but I
• 1:09:31
  want to live and. Yeah, it was.
• 1:09:34
  And there was no way I wouldn't. Would he have like sepsis?
• 1:09:37
  I think. Yeah, like he was starved and
• 1:09:40
  beaten and sepsis and like, all this stuff.
• 1:09:44
  Like stuff. Yeah.
• 1:09:46
  He just. I'm honestly surprised.
• 1:09:48
  And maybe they did this in Season 1 and I just don't
• 1:09:50
  remember. I'm honestly surprised we did
• 1:09:52
  not get a scene of what he dealt with in prison because we never
• 1:09:57
  saw that. We kind of saw that with her a
• 1:09:59
  little bit when in like when she went to jail in Episode 1.
• 1:10:03
  But I'm really surprised they didn't show that.
• 1:10:07
  Maybe they just thought, like, we have enough atrocities to
• 1:10:09
  show you. I don't.
• 1:10:11
  Know, they get taken to the countryside.
• 1:10:13
  They're living in a farmhouse, which honestly, by today's
• 1:10:18
  standards, that's that's great. People love to live in
• 1:10:20
  farmhouses. Oh yeah, yeah, Redone
• 1:10:24
  farmhouses. That's trending.
• 1:10:26
  So Sonja is very distressful of Hansu and Hansu keeps enticing
• 1:10:33
  the boys like he's obviously trying to ingratiate himself,
• 1:10:35
  give them fine things and teach them how to fly kite and all
• 1:10:37
  this bullshit. She's not having any of it.
• 1:10:40
  She's like, what do you want? Why are you here?
• 1:10:43
  Stop doing this. And again, she's not wrong.
• 1:10:47
  She's not wrong. This is all part of his agenda.
• 1:10:50
  And again, not done out of goodwill.
• 1:10:52
  Not done out of goodwill, but there's also her in the present
• 1:10:57
  day in 1989 having this flirtation with this ragtime
• 1:11:00
  barbershop looking Japanese grandpa feeding birds in the
• 1:11:04
  park, saying her grandson was right to berate the bakery dude
• 1:11:11
  for that. All that racial discrimination,
• 1:11:13
  the bullshit he was talking. He was like, no, your grandson
• 1:11:16
  was brave to have said all that and I agree with him and yadda
• 1:11:20
  yadda yadda, man. Come to find out, that old man
• 1:11:23
  was like a war criminal, that he had this sordid past.
• 1:11:28
  And I was like, oh. I felt so bad for her because it
• 1:11:34
  was like they're cute together. Kind of got her to open up a
• 1:11:38
  little bit and enjoy life a little bit and not be burdened
• 1:11:44
  by the trauma that she's dealt with.
• 1:11:46
  And then you throw that into the mix and I'm like, I'm really
• 1:11:50
  curious if that's in the book. I don't know if it is, but yeah,
• 1:11:53
  I was like, oh damn, damn. And the overarching message of
• 1:12:00
  that kind of slapping her in the face is that you really can't
• 1:12:04
  forget the past, right? These are deep wounds.
• 1:12:09
  There's no way they could have rebounded after she got that
• 1:12:11
  news. And I'm on the fence about
• 1:12:14
  whether her son Mosasu was in the wrong for doing the
• 1:12:19
  investigation on him hiring that Pi to get all the dirt on the
• 1:12:24
  old man. I'm like, I'm on the fence about
• 1:12:26
  it. I'm on the fence about it
• 1:12:28
  because she is. They seem to be very wealthy.
• 1:12:30
  Right, right. So this old man, sure, I think
• 1:12:34
  he did have ulterior motives in in approaching her.
• 1:12:37
  Sure, it could have been pure, but I don't, I don't think
• 1:12:40
  there's necessarily he could have really targeted her because
• 1:12:44
  she's rich. Yeah, I don't think her youngest
• 1:12:50
  son did it out of any type of. I'd want her to stay single.
• 1:12:55
  I don't want. Her to like, I don't think he
• 1:12:57
  would. I think he generally would like
• 1:13:00
  the guy and wanted her to be happy.
• 1:13:04
  But I think you're right. I think he was trying to protect
• 1:13:07
  her and make sure you can see how vulnerable she is.
• 1:13:12
  Yeah. Yeah, Like she.
• 1:13:14
  Gave him money. When she gave the money, I was
• 1:13:15
  like, oh. Yeah, I think she still has this
• 1:13:19
  somewhat of an innocence about her.
• 1:13:22
  And like, she's a little naive, yes, just like she was in season
• 1:13:26
  1. I think that has just never left
• 1:13:28
  her in a way. Yeah, in other aspects she
• 1:13:32
  definitely has learned a lot. But I think they're, I think a
• 1:13:34
  common thing with romance in general.
• 1:13:36
  She's still naive about it and still very innocence within it.
• 1:13:42
  Even though she's had E Sock and somewhat even Ho's character.
• 1:13:47
  I think she's still it is never she's never had a like a regular
• 1:13:51
  relationship. Yeah, it's.
• 1:13:53
  Not under to. This point, yeah, like, yeah, I
• 1:13:57
  mean, granted, she could have one and we're not done with the
• 1:13:59
  story, but like, yeah, she she's never had a normal relationship.
• 1:14:04
  Great point. So the barbershop murderer?
• 1:14:08
  I'd say say barbershop cuz that's just how he's kind of
• 1:14:10
  dressed most of the time. Yeah.
• 1:14:12
  Yeah, You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
• 1:14:14
  Yeah. Like, he seems like he's part of
• 1:14:16
  a barbershop quartet. But yeah, anyway, that was
• 1:14:19
  crazy. When they revealed that I was
• 1:14:21
  like no. Yeah, 'cause they work together.
• 1:14:26
  They were adorable together. But yeah, it yeah, it was.
• 1:14:29
  Like I drew the line when you kept talking about, oh, I got I
• 1:14:32
  don't got money. When she saw that he couldn't
• 1:14:34
  pay for the Mexican food, which great date, great date idea,
• 1:14:38
  have Mexican food and a couple of marks.
• 1:14:40
  Absolutely sign me up. But damn, damn, so so sad.
• 1:14:47
  Disappointing. There was an attraction in the
• 1:14:50
  1940s between the auntie and the bodyguard.
• 1:14:54
  Oh yeah, girl, I was lapping that up.
• 1:14:56
  I was laughing. It up same same.
• 1:15:00
  Because if I recall correctly, her husband was very machismo.
• 1:15:04
  Oh yeah, definitely. And he?
• 1:15:06
  Got mad at them for paying off his debt in season 1.
• 1:15:09
  Yeah, he was bitching and moaning and sliding down the
• 1:15:11
  walls because the ladies handled his biz.
• 1:15:14
  And I was like, oh he ain't. He ain't even a good man.
• 1:15:17
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, they kind of had that
• 1:15:20
  interaction a little bit in season one, but it got full
• 1:15:23
  blown attraction in season 2. Like they had chemistry.
• 1:15:28
  And yeah, you also hated her husband in this season, so that
• 1:15:33
  didn't really. Help either?
• 1:15:34
  Like, yeah, it's more than. 1. Taken to 11.
• 1:15:38
  Yeah, at least in season 1 it's like, OK, he has some machismo.
• 1:15:42
  He's definitely like of the times.
• 1:15:45
  Like gender role type wise. Oh God I hated his character.
• 1:15:49
  In Season 2. Absolutely did.
• 1:15:53
  Granted to some extent I understand why, but on another
• 1:15:57
  extent I'm like dude you could be dealing like get a therapist.
• 1:16:01
  Like therapy? Talk about.
• 1:16:04
  It we haven't talked about that part yet.
• 1:16:05
  Noah. So we're getting to it.
• 1:16:07
  But Noah has this moment where he lets the school bully go
• 1:16:10
  because he was stealing eggs. And you can see that the fruit
• 1:16:15
  of Isaac forgiving the pastor has taken root inside Noah and
• 1:16:21
  he immediately forgives this kid.
• 1:16:24
  The power was balance was switched in that moment.
• 1:16:26
  He had every right to punish him for not just bullying him in
• 1:16:31
  school, but also for stealing from the family.
• 1:16:33
  In these dire times where every little chicken egg is important,
• 1:16:38
  it's it needs to be consumed by this family.
• 1:16:41
  They own these chickens. And oh, man.
• 1:16:45
  And then the bodyguard says you want your enemies to owe you,
• 1:16:48
  not the other way around. Words to live by.
• 1:16:53
  So episode 4, Lemon Hill brings Sonja's mom back from Korea
• 1:16:58
  again. It's it's got a red herring.
• 1:17:01
  Things that he's doing. The other thing is, is the
• 1:17:04
  immediately when she stepped out of the car, I was like, well,
• 1:17:06
  how long did that? Was that the plan?
• 1:17:08
  Like how long did that take? Because obviously 1940 something
• 1:17:13
  I'm like, you put her in a trunk on money or smuggling shift.
• 1:17:16
  There's like no way. There's no way you got a
• 1:17:19
  passenger ticket in World War 2. Yeah, well, she was saying about
• 1:17:24
  the she was talking about the passage over and how the boat
• 1:17:27
  was really small and they were crammed in there and stuff like
• 1:17:30
  who the fuck knows how he brought her over in the
• 1:17:33
  conditions, but the fact that he even found her.
• 1:17:36
  Well, yeah, found her. But also it was like did how
• 1:17:39
  long was that the plan? Like how long did he was he
• 1:17:43
  planning on bringing her over? Like because he obviously
• 1:17:47
  couldn't do it. There's no way.
• 1:17:49
  He was like, Oh my God, World War 2 broke out.
• 1:17:51
  Let's bring her mother over it. There's no way.
• 1:17:52
  He I know that the Americans just bond Osaka, but let's get
• 1:17:56
  this old bag over here. Like when I see what you're
• 1:18:01
  saying. Like, when did he say start the
• 1:18:03
  search? Yeah.
• 1:18:04
  Yeah. Or maybe he's never lost her.
• 1:18:08
  Maybe. Maybe.
• 1:18:10
  Yeah, maybe he's just. Rubbing fingers all over Korea
• 1:18:13
  and. Japan, like, oh, Sonja's mad at
• 1:18:14
  me, let me go get her mother and then she'll forgive me.
• 1:18:17
  Yeah, like, maybe that was the plan.
• 1:18:19
  I don't know. Yeah, they have a moment in 1989
• 1:18:23
  where Sonja is with Anna Sawai's character and they're making
• 1:18:27
  food. Anna Sawai says that she used to
• 1:18:31
  help her mom cook dinner for her family, but it was kind of all
• 1:18:35
  for not because the dad was rarely home.
• 1:18:38
  He like never came home much. And Sunja says the food you make
• 1:18:43
  for others and the food you make for your family, you can taste
• 1:18:46
  the difference. Kind of an extension of what we
• 1:18:49
  saw in season 1 with food being such a touch point for people,
• 1:18:55
  especially Sunja and her journey because she is a cook.
• 1:18:59
  She's using her cooking skills to put food on the table, so to
• 1:19:03
  speak, right? She's selling goods and the
• 1:19:05
  goods is this home cooked food. And so she intimately knows that
• 1:19:10
  cooking for your family is different than cooking for other
• 1:19:13
  people. And she is basically saying, I
• 1:19:15
  know how much love you put in that food.
• 1:19:18
  I know how much it meant to you to cook with your mom and put
• 1:19:21
  this feast together for your dad who never came home.
• 1:19:24
  It's like acknowledging all of this sincerity that was
• 1:19:30
  literally left on the table. And I love that.
• 1:19:33
  I just loved it. I thought it was, it was great.
• 1:19:37
  And then we get in the past, Sonja getting a driving lesson
• 1:19:41
  from Emin Ho on this stick shift vehicle from the 40s.
• 1:19:45
  And it was. It culminated in she ends up
• 1:19:50
  making out with Lee Min Ho. And I'm like, girl, girl.
• 1:19:57
  It was a moment of weakness. It was a moment of weakness.
• 1:19:59
  And he he scares her off because again, he asserts, oh, you're
• 1:20:03
  mine and all this stuff. She's like, we ain't doing that.
• 1:20:07
  And like, literally hoofs it back to the farmhouse, right?
• 1:20:11
  And when she comes home, the mom correctly guesses.
• 1:20:15
  Lehman hose, the father Lehman hose Noah's dad and they both go
• 1:20:19
  like we can't Noah can never find out foreshadowing
• 1:20:23
  foreshadowing because of course no one's going to find out that
• 1:20:27
  even knows his dad. And I did read into the bath
• 1:20:31
  that she takes because she's covered in mud after she comes
• 1:20:34
  back from they were they got the car stuck in the mud and at the
• 1:20:37
  push it and then they start making out and she's covered.
• 1:20:39
  She's dirty and the mom goes, we have to like wash you down.
• 1:20:43
  We, we have to wash up because you can't go inside looking like
• 1:20:46
  that. You're, you're got mud all over
• 1:20:48
  you. And when she takes this bath, it
• 1:20:51
  is like a baptism to me. That's how I read it.
• 1:20:56
  Yeah, it's like a turning point. Yeah, she's not going to get
• 1:20:59
  weak in front of Imanno, and she's not going to take his lies
• 1:21:03
  anymore. Yeah, I really, I really like
• 1:21:06
  that. And Noah of course, witnesses
• 1:21:09
  Imanno loses shit on the foreman.
• 1:21:11
  I was about to say that. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:14
  I think at that extent of the of the story, Noah was kind of
• 1:21:18
  getting suspicious of him a little bit.
• 1:21:22
  And I think this just cemented that for him because on one
• 1:21:26
  hand, his younger brother is like, Oh my God, he's so much
• 1:21:28
  fun. He plays catch with us being a
• 1:21:32
  kid. And then Noah being the person
• 1:21:34
  that he is, is extremely protective as of his mother is
• 1:21:38
  like, OK, this dude who's obviously rich and has
• 1:21:41
  everything in the world, why, yeah, why is he hanging around
• 1:21:45
  my mom? Why is he doing this?
• 1:21:47
  And I think it really this both scared him because obviously
• 1:21:53
  this dudes around his mom and him and his family.
• 1:21:58
  It also showed him he'd obviously doesn't know that
• 1:22:03
  Eamon Ho's character is part of the Yakuza, but this showed him
• 1:22:08
  that this dude is involved in some weird, crazy, shady shit.
• 1:22:13
  And I think it it it changed his perspective of it, even though
• 1:22:17
  he was just, I think he was very suspicious of him before that
• 1:22:21
  happened. But yeah, I agree.
• 1:22:23
  And obviously Eamon Ho's character did not want him to
• 1:22:26
  see it and then knows that he saw it.
• 1:22:29
  So. Oh.
• 1:22:30
  Man, he saw me at my day job. Dang, episode 5 we have to talk
• 1:22:36
  about episode 5. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
• 1:22:39
  Let's go back to episode 4 really quick because we also got
• 1:22:41
  another kiss scene in this gym. Because the auntie has a First
• 1:22:49
  of all, she has a breakdown, full on breakdown, like a panic
• 1:22:52
  attack because they saw all of those planes flying overhead.
• 1:22:56
  I. Think.
• 1:22:57
  And she was like, Oh my God, this is a lot to take, right?
• 1:23:03
  Especially for just she doesn't know if her husband is alive and
• 1:23:07
  well, if they're going to bomb Nagasaki and all these things,
• 1:23:10
  which history is really sad because we know.
• 1:23:13
  Yeah, like the minute I heard that he was working in a factory
• 1:23:16
  Nagasaki, I'm like, Oh no. Oh, Jesus.
• 1:23:22
  And the minute I heard that I was like, oh man, this is going
• 1:23:26
  to be bad. And again, it's weird because
• 1:23:28
  it's like I not weird, but it's kind of, I don't know the term.
• 1:23:32
  Both of these women had a moment of weakness in this show and
• 1:23:37
  kissed the people they should not have kissed for.
• 1:23:42
  Various. Different reasons, like
• 1:23:43
  different reasons on why they should not have kissed him or
• 1:23:47
  like the circumstances of the kiss of I think it's more, I
• 1:23:52
  mean, the comments about this episode were tearing Sanjay's
• 1:23:56
  character apart, just tearing her apart all around on social
• 1:24:00
  media, which I hated. She don't need that.
• 1:24:03
  She doesn't need that from you. Yeah, and I didn't see much
• 1:24:08
  about the second button. I mean, it is even ho, so people
• 1:24:11
  are just going to be talking about his storyline for the most
• 1:24:13
  part anyway. But if you had to compare the
• 1:24:17
  moment of weakness, I think in my opinion, even though I don't
• 1:24:21
  think Sunja did anything wrong, I think she was just lonely and
• 1:24:26
  he took advantage of that situation like he did in Season
• 1:24:29
  1. I mean that it was all his
• 1:24:32
  manipulation in her having this moment of weakness.
• 1:24:35
  So I don't see she did anything wrong.
• 1:24:38
  I think the side character with the bodyguard and the Ant, it
• 1:24:42
  was more justifiable because she was freaking out like she was.
• 1:24:47
  She was pretty low as well. Yeah, she was like, basically
• 1:24:51
  grieving her husband, thinking, oh God, it's probably the worst
• 1:24:55
  thing ever. Yeah.
• 1:24:56
  I agree completely. And then to an extent both.
• 1:24:58
  You could say both guys took advantage.
• 1:25:01
  Of exactly and to an extent Sunja was grieving too.
• 1:25:03
  Like she literally just burned in sock and then left.
• 1:25:07
  Yes, it was. There was no closure really
• 1:25:10
  there. No closure.
• 1:25:11
  No closure. You could see she was wanting
• 1:25:13
  that. She was wanting that experience,
• 1:25:15
  that whole funeral experience, too.
• 1:25:17
  Exactly. Play itself out how it should
• 1:25:20
  have and it was interrupted and then they had to flee the city
• 1:25:24
  because it was about to be bombed.
• 1:25:26
  She's got a lot of unresolved grief there.
• 1:25:29
  You know so. And then the other girl, the
• 1:25:32
  auntie, poor lady, like I'm just.
• 1:25:35
  Like this poor. Lady, she can't catch a break.
• 1:25:39
  And yeah, despite me actually wanting her to get with the
• 1:25:42
  bodyguard. Yeah, the bodyguard took
• 1:25:45
  advantage of that moment and maybe you could say he was
• 1:25:49
  trying to comfort her, but she's been trying to rebuff you for a
• 1:25:54
  year or so. Like it's.
• 1:25:56
  At least that, yeah. He was definitely taking
• 1:26:01
  advantage of the situation, whether you saw it that way or
• 1:26:04
  not. They both got kissed in episode
• 1:26:06
  4, right? Right.
• 1:26:09
  Right, I love that great spot. Episode 5 we got to talk about
• 1:26:14
  episode 5. Episode 5 is Nagasaki 1945.
• 1:26:20
  The brother is working on grenades.
• 1:26:23
  So this is man. The names are escaping me this.
• 1:26:28
  Is this is Yosef? Yeah, Yosef is.
• 1:26:31
  Working on grenades I think in this fact.
• 1:26:34
  The first, the first like 15 minutes of this episode, I was
• 1:26:38
  just like, Oh my God. Yes, black and white, different
• 1:26:43
  aspect ratio. Yeah.
• 1:26:45
  They're doing the most, They're leading it up to the bombing.
• 1:26:49
  Each day you get a little bit more of his experience in the
• 1:26:53
  factory and how he is not hanging out with the other
• 1:26:58
  Koreans in the factory, kind of keeping to himself until this
• 1:27:03
  kid really opens up to him and tells his story of how he
• 1:27:08
  survived a cholera outbreak that killed 88 of 89 people in his
• 1:27:13
  town. He is the one survivor.
• 1:27:15
  And the kid saying maybe I was kept alive for this moment, for
• 1:27:19
  this moment, that I can kill this high-ranking official in
• 1:27:25
  the Japanese army or something like that.
• 1:27:27
  Like this general, I don't even know who was coming to visit
• 1:27:29
  Nagasaki, but he was like, maybe I can do something here, make a
• 1:27:34
  difference in some way. Yeah, Oh.
• 1:27:37
  My God, it's all just. It happened so fast.
• 1:27:40
  The August 9th coming along and the bombing, it was impressive
• 1:27:45
  to see how they handled it. Right.
• 1:27:47
  And how the guy just, I mean, Yosep jumps in and saves the
• 1:27:53
  official who came for the visit, right?
• 1:27:56
  But he really did it to save the kid because he didn't want the
• 1:28:00
  kid to get off to for this murder attempt.
• 1:28:05
  And then just when you thought they were safe.
• 1:28:07
  No, there was at no point that I was like just when I thought
• 1:28:10
  they were safe, but he gets put in the back of a vehicle and
• 1:28:15
  then boom, the A bomb goes off the moment he regains
• 1:28:20
  consciousness and you see his burnt up mangled face.
• 1:28:24
  Wow. Wow.
• 1:28:26
  I have crazy eyes right now because the that scene is it
• 1:28:30
  rocks you. Yeah, it's like you literally
• 1:28:34
  thought he was dead. Like you were like, there's no
• 1:28:36
  way. There's no way that guy's alive
• 1:28:39
  and then he's alive and. You're just like, no, it's that
• 1:28:44
  worse. I don't.
• 1:28:45
  Know I know exactly it's like he he's covered in burns and sores
• 1:28:54
  and bandages and like he's not recognizable whatsoever
• 1:28:57
  obviously super painful it's. Just well, I heard, I also heard
• 1:29:02
  that if this is from coming from my sister who works close to the
• 1:29:06
  burn unit in her hospital, that some burn victims when the burn
• 1:29:11
  goes past a certain degree, they don't feel pain because the
• 1:29:14
  nerve endings have been burnt off, which maybe that's a small
• 1:29:18
  mercy in his case. I don't know if that's the case
• 1:29:22
  for him, but I just kept that in the back of my mind, right?
• 1:29:25
  The flies that were buzzing around him and crawling on him.
• 1:29:29
  I was, I was just trying to self soothe during this whole thing,
• 1:29:36
  right. And this is a conversation that
• 1:29:37
  we said earlier that he has with Emanho because he tries to
• 1:29:41
  assert like dominance over Emanho in this moment.
• 1:29:46
  And it could be seen as righteous anger because he's
• 1:29:50
  totally right to be angry at even though.
• 1:29:53
  Right, right. However, even though he puts him
• 1:29:57
  in his place, he's like you can be the head of the family.
• 1:30:00
  I'm not going to fight you for that.
• 1:30:02
  That's fine. You can keep that title.
• 1:30:04
  However, I need you to know who's wearing the pants here,
• 1:30:07
  who's paying the bills here, Who's saved your family so that
• 1:30:11
  who saved your ass? Right.
• 1:30:14
  So such a face that that's everything that I got from this
• 1:30:18
  conversation. And then we get another five
• 1:30:21
  year time jump. Well, really quickly before we
• 1:30:23
  get the five year time jump, the other thing that was like kind
• 1:30:27
  of in the 1st 10 or 15 minutes of this show of this episode is
• 1:30:31
  you also are seeing the date. Like it's not just like, OK,
• 1:30:35
  here's one day, here's another day.
• 1:30:37
  It's literally counting down by showing you the date every time.
• 1:30:43
  So if you're minimally know the date that the bomb went off,
• 1:30:47
  you're like, OK, really. OK, So it's like one of those
• 1:30:51
  things were like like in voice in the K drama voice, they have
• 1:30:55
  a it's a whole thing where it's like they only you can only save
• 1:30:59
  this person in a certain amount of time because there's like
• 1:31:01
  statistics and everything. I can't remember what they call
• 1:31:03
  it, but like they have a clock the entire time in the episode
• 1:31:08
  and you're like, OK, they have to save this in people in this
• 1:31:10
  amount of time. It's it was like that.
• 1:31:12
  It's like you knew what was coming on this certain date and
• 1:31:16
  they were just counting down. That's always.
• 1:31:18
  Going to work. That that exactly.
• 1:31:21
  The fact that shtick, if you will, is always going to work to
• 1:31:24
  me, Yeah, yeah. The Korean War breaks out and
• 1:31:29
  Noah takes the entrance exam for this prestigious College in
• 1:31:35
  Tokyo. In Episode 6, you find out he
• 1:31:37
  gets in and I guess we can kind of slip and slide down the last
• 1:31:43
  two or three episodes, right? Did you have notes for 6-7 and
• 1:31:47
  eight? I didn't have notes.
• 1:31:49
  I kind of have like broad thoughts, OK.
• 1:31:52
  Go for it. I think it's like coming back
• 1:31:55
  from the war. So they have a five year time
• 1:31:57
  jump. They obviously have to rebuild
• 1:32:00
  from World War 2 and then you have the Korean War.
• 1:32:05
  And so it's like Noah being in this college, he's being
• 1:32:12
  introduced, it's an expansion of his worldview.
• 1:32:15
  You know where up until then you were talking about earlier in
• 1:32:20
  the episode where Sonja kind of have shield them to an extent.
• 1:32:25
  She doesn't cry in front of them.
• 1:32:26
  That was a whole thing in the earlier episodes when she's
• 1:32:28
  like, never let the kids see you cry.
• 1:32:30
  Always show them your smiling face.
• 1:32:32
  And so how does that bear out in Noah's life?
• 1:32:35
  He ends up not wanting to go to college because of the extra
• 1:32:38
  expense the 2400 that the family can't afford.
• 1:32:42
  Yeah, and then he all of a sudden can go to college and.
• 1:32:46
  Right, well, Sunja takes him to see his little girl that served
• 1:32:51
  the tofu girl. The tofu girl.
• 1:32:53
  Yes, the tofu girl. I love everything that she says
• 1:32:56
  to him, but the thing that stuck out to me was that she's saying
• 1:33:00
  your world is very small. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:33:04
  And very insulated. Yes.
• 1:33:06
  And you need to get out. You're a big fish in a small
• 1:33:08
  pond. You need to get out to that big
• 1:33:10
  pond. Yeah.
• 1:33:12
  And I think college did that for him.
• 1:33:13
  Yeah. To the best and the worst.
• 1:33:18
  Negative and positive reasons, yes.
• 1:33:22
  You see the classes that he takes and how he's learning and
• 1:33:26
  he meets his college girlfriend. Who I did not like.
• 1:33:30
  Oh my gosh, what a Husky. I did not like her.
• 1:33:34
  At all. Oh my God, nothing about her did
• 1:33:36
  I like to. No, I was.
• 1:33:38
  Struggling. Not at all.
• 1:33:40
  Yeah. I mean, it was clear it was
• 1:33:42
  another. Like it was clear she was taking
• 1:33:45
  advantage of him again. It was like it was a common
• 1:33:48
  thread you saw and I was weirded out on why.
• 1:33:53
  And maybe it was just the fact that like he just he had a kind
• 1:33:56
  of innocence from that because he was so shielded or whatever.
• 1:34:00
  But it's like before this he was so and also obviously he also
• 1:34:06
  had that thing of like, I don't want to be Korean.
• 1:34:09
  So I think his girlfriend somewhat made him feel Japanese
• 1:34:15
  even though she was had ulterior motives and that's.
• 1:34:19
  An interesting take. Not a good, not a good person.
• 1:34:23
  But I think even though he was very critical and very in high
• 1:34:28
  school and like in school before he went to college, he did not
• 1:34:33
  like being Korean. But he also was, what's the word
• 1:34:36
  I'm looking for, cynical. Like he was suspicious of
• 1:34:39
  everybody in college. He seemed like all of that went
• 1:34:42
  out the window. Either he was just like, it was
• 1:34:45
  just a, he was excited about learning things and having his
• 1:34:49
  world be expanded, but he didn't have those same walls up.
• 1:34:53
  So he didn't see this horrible person that he was dating.
• 1:34:57
  Let me just say, being taken advantage of.
• 1:34:59
  He was in that relationship. Yeah, everybody.
• 1:35:05
  More often than not, there's a crazy story of your first
• 1:35:08
  girlfriend or boyfriend in college, and rarely does it work
• 1:35:11
  out right. I think this is a classic tale
• 1:35:15
  as old as Stein thing, where he's enticed by her difference
• 1:35:19
  of opinion and her tenacity and her spunk and the attitude, the
• 1:35:26
  attitude that stems from her privilege.
• 1:35:29
  Right, exactly. You know, so they were not well
• 1:35:33
  matched at all, but that didn't matter.
• 1:35:34
  It's college. He's of age away from home.
• 1:35:38
  He's fucking around. And I do appreciate that they
• 1:35:41
  showed them having different conversations and
• 1:35:44
  interpretations of text, that they are like literature that
• 1:35:49
  they're learning in class. And he's constantly calling her
• 1:35:52
  out on her shit, clocking her tea.
• 1:35:55
  And he's like, you're, you come from a privileged background,
• 1:35:58
  You're Japanese, you have no idea what a struggle is.
• 1:36:01
  And so you're not going to get the appeal of whatever this lit
• 1:36:05
  is or you're not going to get what's missing from this
• 1:36:09
  literature and what makes it flawed throughout.
• 1:36:13
  He's just reading her and she is intrigued by his his truth
• 1:36:23
  bombs, I guess. Yeah, because I don't think
• 1:36:26
  she's ever. Because she's never had someone
• 1:36:29
  challenge her like that. Right, right.
• 1:36:31
  So that's also part of the appeal of each of them staying
• 1:36:34
  with the other. And she gets a thrill out of
• 1:36:37
  like, manipulating him sexually. Yes, absolutely.
• 1:36:42
  Absolutely, but he knows this. Right, he knows this.
• 1:36:46
  He's not ignorant to everything that she's doing.
• 1:36:49
  It was, it was to fit in. It was to fit in, I think, yeah,
• 1:36:54
  I think to an extent it was to fit in because he knew he was
• 1:36:57
  Korean, she was Japanese. Like that was never going to
• 1:37:01
  change. The moment when he goes to have
• 1:37:03
  dinner with Hanzu Lehmann Hill's character and this pernicious
• 1:37:10
  bitch shows. Up to.
• 1:37:12
  The dinner. Oh, I was so mad.
• 1:37:15
  I was so mad. Just kind of parading and round
• 1:37:19
  and looking like I know something you don't and I don't
• 1:37:23
  care that you told me I can't go here and meet this man.
• 1:37:28
  Just so smug. So smug.
• 1:37:31
  She's so smug and he's she sees how he bristles at her coming
• 1:37:36
  and entering the space and meeting, even though it is such
• 1:37:40
  a betrayal. And to an extent, like, yeah, he
• 1:37:43
  did not know at that time that Eamon Ho was his dad.
• 1:37:49
  I'm sure that he suspected there's a deeper connection.
• 1:37:52
  Of course, yeah. And he obviously, as we said,
• 1:37:56
  saw what he did in that field to that person.
• 1:37:59
  Yeah. But I think he generally grew to
• 1:38:03
  like those dinners. He grew to like the
• 1:38:06
  conversations that he had with Hansu and he, while he was one
• 1:38:12
  wanting to hide that from people because it's very clear Hansu's
• 1:38:16
  funding his college, he also wanted to keep it private
• 1:38:20
  because it was something he sort of looked forward to.
• 1:38:24
  Oh, I saw the. Other way that he was sort of
• 1:38:26
  ashamed that he had to pay his respects to Hansu every month or
• 1:38:29
  whatever. How interesting.
• 1:38:31
  OK. Yeah, yeah, that's how I saw it.
• 1:38:33
  But that's fine. Let me.
• 1:38:34
  Try your take, too. I mean, I mean, I saw.
• 1:38:36
  I mean, I understand the ashamed part because yeah, he did not
• 1:38:39
  like that he was funding his college.
• 1:38:41
  Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
• 1:38:43
  And he didn't understand why. Yeah, I definitely agree.
• 1:38:47
  Like there are aspects of this relationship he did not want and
• 1:38:50
  he did not like. Yeah.
• 1:38:52
  But I think the conversation though, he looked forward to
• 1:38:57
  because Hansu was knowledgeable and was able to keep up with his
• 1:39:02
  thoughts and his 'cause I think Noah is a old soul.
• 1:39:05
  I think yes. He was, oh, what a great Oh yes.
• 1:39:09
  Like, yes, he like Jet, like, bickering with this girl and
• 1:39:12
  going back and forth, but I think he even Hoe's character
• 1:39:16
  gave him a perspective on this literature that he's reading
• 1:39:21
  that he wasn't getting from anybody else in college.
• 1:39:25
  So I think he looked forward to the conversation and not
• 1:39:29
  necessarily having to go to dinner with this guy and knowing
• 1:39:33
  that he was funding his college. But I think the conversation was
• 1:39:38
  stimulating. Stimulating, yeah.
• 1:39:42
  All this time, Noah has been telling it like it is clocking
• 1:39:45
  her shit and like she laughs as she says.
• 1:39:49
  Don't you realize this man is your dad referring to Hansu?
• 1:39:54
  This man is your father? And he flies at her.
• 1:39:57
  He starts choking around. There's like immediate violence.
• 1:40:01
  And he instantly goes back to Hansu to verify.
• 1:40:06
  And Hansu had this opportunity to do the right thing.
• 1:40:11
  Yep, which was. Lie, lie and say no, I'm not
• 1:40:15
  your father. Because throughout all of these
• 1:40:20
  years, it's so clear that Noah has a differing personnel.
• 1:40:26
  There's these are two disparate people, even if they're blood
• 1:40:30
  related, they have very little in common in the way that they
• 1:40:33
  think and the way they act. Noah is so gentle.
• 1:40:36
  Right, the product of Sunji raising the.
• 1:40:39
  Product of Sunji raising him, the product of the lessons of
• 1:40:43
  Isaac, his adoptive father, and the fact that Imano looks him in
• 1:40:47
  his face and says yeah, Yep, you are my son, You are my son, and
• 1:40:54
  don't you worry about nothing because I'm going to pave a way
• 1:40:57
  for you. No one's going to make fun of
• 1:40:58
  you. No one's going to give you
• 1:40:59
  issues or trouble because I will make it so.
• 1:41:03
  Yeah. And it scares the shit out of
• 1:41:05
  Noah. Absolutely.
• 1:41:07
  And then top it on the fact he just went at it with his
• 1:41:11
  girlfriend. So all of a sudden he's like.
• 1:41:13
  I just acted like. More like the guy.
• 1:41:15
  Yeah, I'm just even more like the guy.
• 1:41:17
  It's must be genetic. I felt so bad for him in that.
• 1:41:21
  It was a whole whirlwind of emotions that came over Noah.
• 1:41:24
  You feel horrible for him. It's crushing.
• 1:41:28
  And all these qualities of virtue and righteousness and
• 1:41:32
  forgiveness that he has exhibited are called into
• 1:41:36
  question. Right.
• 1:41:38
  Because this guy, this Yakuza asshole, is my dad.
• 1:41:44
  Yeah, So I love that. I I just thought it was so
• 1:41:47
  devastating and. So devastating and to an extent
• 1:41:51
  I think even Hoe's character. Again, I don't think he cared
• 1:41:56
  about the guy. I don't think he cared about
• 1:41:57
  Sunja, but he needed that. There was some like Egotistical
• 1:42:04
  perspective tyrannical thing of like this guy is my bloodline.
• 1:42:09
  I'm going to do everything in my power to make him as powerful as
• 1:42:13
  possible and give him the advantages that I had to fight
• 1:42:18
  for because I can't have a no son of mine.
• 1:42:21
  It's going to be living in a farm in the middle of nowhere
• 1:42:24
  for the rest of his life like. But it was nothing to do with
• 1:42:28
  love and nothing to do with actually.
• 1:42:30
  Caring for him. Exactly.
• 1:42:32
  It was like, you are going to be as prestigious as me because my
• 1:42:37
  image is everything. Yeah.
• 1:42:40
  So ostensibly this sends Noah spiraling and I thought he was
• 1:42:45
  going to commit suicide. Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:42:48
  Yeah. The way he said by the Sundra, I
• 1:42:50
  was like, he's gone. There's no way.
• 1:42:52
  There's no way. I'm like, he's a goner.
• 1:42:55
  He's not coming back for Season 3.
• 1:42:56
  There's no way. Oh.
• 1:42:58
  Dang, but come to find out, he just drops off the map like he
• 1:43:03
  sells the watch, which was a token from season 1 that like he
• 1:43:08
  did the same thing as his mom, which was sell it to a pawn shop
• 1:43:12
  to get some cash and just started a whole new life in
• 1:43:16
  another city. I think it was a pachinko parlor
• 1:43:19
  that he just rocked up to and said, hey, do you need help?
• 1:43:22
  I'm looking for some part time work.
• 1:43:24
  And the guy was like, you're not a Korean.
• 1:43:25
  You're not one of those. Koreans are.
• 1:43:28
  You and. He says no and gives a totally
• 1:43:32
  different Japanese name. Yeah, just like his teacher.
• 1:43:37
  Yeah. I'm really curious if we're
• 1:43:39
  going to get his character in season 3 because I either he's
• 1:43:43
  gone for the rest of the show because, again, we didn't read
• 1:43:46
  the book so I have no idea, or they're going to find him again
• 1:43:50
  eventually and find out what happened.
• 1:43:54
  Or here, I don't know, maybe he has a wife and kid and whatever.
• 1:43:59
  Yeah, but his performance, Kim Kun Hoon and Kante Ju, like the
• 1:44:04
  the kids, the actors who played this guy, they were phenomenal.
• 1:44:09
  I thought so too. Like, they were so good.
• 1:44:11
  So good. Yeah.
• 1:44:13
  OK, we have to. We have to talk about the aunt
• 1:44:16
  and her husband. Oh, like the the aftermath?
• 1:44:19
  Lead us in. Lead us in.
• 1:44:22
  Oh my God, I hated his character so much and I felt so bad for
• 1:44:29
  her. So bad because so he's alive.
• 1:44:33
  Even ho saves him, brings him back.
• 1:44:37
  He is AI don't even know like he's a jerk.
• 1:44:41
  He's a jerk the entire time. And it's like, oh, woe is me.
• 1:44:47
  And yes, it's understandable to an extent.
• 1:44:49
  Of course you survived the atom bomb.
• 1:44:52
  Like it, like obviously. But it's like you are taking it
• 1:44:56
  out on your wife and everybody around you and you're making
• 1:45:00
  everybody miserable and you're wallowing in your bedroom
• 1:45:03
  upstairs and like people are walking on egg shells around you
• 1:45:09
  because you can fly off the handle anytime at all as.
• 1:45:13
  Textbook abusive. Exactly.
• 1:45:15
  The husband's father. I thought this was really smart
• 1:45:21
  of the show to do because maybe he could have turned over a new
• 1:45:25
  leaf and thought, gosh, I'm lucky to be alive.
• 1:45:28
  I actually survived the fucking atom bomb in Nagasaki, and my
• 1:45:33
  whole family is alive except for his brother, except for Isaac.
• 1:45:37
  But yeah, that had nothing to do with really wartime, right?
• 1:45:41
  You know, there's a lot of things to be thankful for.
• 1:45:45
  And he just fell back on bitterness and.
• 1:45:48
  Yeah, and I think letting his. Trauma dictate his whole life
• 1:45:53
  and being aggressive and demanding to his poor wife who
• 1:45:58
  was praying and desperate for him to live in return.
• 1:46:01
  Yeah. And what I find is really ironic
• 1:46:05
  is he had that whole conversation with Eamon Ho.
• 1:46:09
  He was emasculated. He never.
• 1:46:11
  Recovered. He was emasculated, never
• 1:46:13
  recovered. They both had ego problems and
• 1:46:16
  he he definitely would not have admitted that.
• 1:46:19
  He definitely was. Like I'm nothing like Eamon Ho's
• 1:46:21
  character. I'm nothing like Hansu, I care
• 1:46:24
  about my family blah blah blah blah blah.
• 1:46:26
  Dude, you're exactly like him. You're exactly like him when it
• 1:46:30
  comes to ego and narcissism. Answer just as dressed nicer.
• 1:46:35
  Like it. It was.
• 1:46:36
  Really. I found it really ironic that
• 1:46:38
  this guy hated even host character so much and then ended
• 1:46:42
  up basically destroying this family in a way.
• 1:46:47
  Yeah, being a burden when he really didn't have to be.
• 1:46:50
  No, exactly like once he. Recovered, he didn't really take
• 1:46:54
  up the mantle of leading the family and providing for the
• 1:46:59
  family and just even doing the baseline things that the gender
• 1:47:04
  rules said he should do. He just wanted the title of
• 1:47:08
  being head of the family. Right, exactly.
• 1:47:11
  And didn't do any of the. Work to support the family.
• 1:47:14
  Yeah. And then berated his wife for
• 1:47:17
  like, her cooking. It was sad.
• 1:47:21
  Yeah, so I mean, I can't blame his wife because they never,
• 1:47:25
  they never. Other than that kiss, then
• 1:47:27
  nothing, if I remember correctly, nothing happened
• 1:47:30
  beyond that. But it was definitely like an
• 1:47:33
  emotional affair that scenes that she would have in that
• 1:47:38
  house where he they like avoided each other obviously with the
• 1:47:43
  bodyguard. And like you could like I
• 1:47:45
  remember there was I don't remember what episode was it was
• 1:47:47
  like she was laying in bed and he was eating an apple or eating
• 1:47:52
  something that was making noise in the kitchen.
• 1:47:55
  And it's like she knew it was him in that room.
• 1:47:58
  She knew just because. She left that food out for him.
• 1:48:01
  Right, right. It's like those little things
• 1:48:04
  you saw in the last two or three episodes of they're not like
• 1:48:08
  sneaking around because they're not having a physical affair,
• 1:48:10
  but like they're definitely having emotional affair and like
• 1:48:13
  doing these small little things, which everybody knows is
• 1:48:17
  obviously. There's attraction, there's
• 1:48:19
  tension, there's. Yeah.
• 1:48:22
  An understanding between them and he, you know, I guess that
• 1:48:27
  character's name is Chungho. Chungho, the bodyguard.
• 1:48:30
  Is his love based on pity? I don't know, maybe.
• 1:48:34
  A little bit maybe. Maybe maybe also the thrill of
• 1:48:38
  she's highborn and he's not. So this class divide is also
• 1:48:45
  between them. And I'm sure that, as he said in
• 1:48:49
  one of the episodes, like, we would never even be able to talk
• 1:48:52
  if we were back in Korea. Right.
• 1:48:55
  And I think also to an extent, I think the instinct kind of what
• 1:48:59
  came in too is like he is a bodyguard.
• 1:49:02
  So when he's seeing this horrible man just like berate
• 1:49:06
  his wife. Yeah, the protection instinct, I
• 1:49:09
  guess. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:49:10
  I think to an extent that kind of kicked in too, but yeah,
• 1:49:14
  yeah. Yeah, that that Yosef was like a
• 1:49:17
  waste roll, so unreliable, just turning everybody upside down,
• 1:49:22
  inside out. And I love Musashu, who's now a
• 1:49:26
  teenager again, going toe to toe with Yosef and saying like,
• 1:49:32
  can't you just like, do something?
• 1:49:35
  Why are you here? Like and talk shit at the dinner
• 1:49:40
  table. Yeah.
• 1:49:42
  Which again, I feel like in the West that would be a lot more
• 1:49:45
  acceptable to disrespect an elder like that.
• 1:49:49
  Oh, of course. Absolutely, yeah.
• 1:49:51
  But it's really charged here because that's not typical.
• 1:49:55
  Like, they need to fall in line. He is the eldest.
• 1:49:58
  He is the technically head of the family.
• 1:50:02
  He's, you know, got all this clout, but he's not delivering
• 1:50:06
  on the responsibilities. Right.
• 1:50:09
  Yeah. And the fact that she, like, how
• 1:50:13
  long was he in that? Well, it wasn't it like over a
• 1:50:16
  year that he'd never left that house.
• 1:50:18
  It was at least a year, if not more.
• 1:50:21
  And again, he obviously is covered in scars and.
• 1:50:25
  Whatever. Or maybe it was long, maybe it
• 1:50:27
  was way longer that I don't know.
• 1:50:28
  It was a really long time. Yeah.
• 1:50:31
  Because when he finally did leave, they saw that like
• 1:50:35
  baseball game. I think it was baseball.
• 1:50:38
  Yeah, the American pastime. And look, Japanese to this day
• 1:50:44
  fucking love baseball. Love baseball.
• 1:50:47
  Love baseball? Yeah.
• 1:50:49
  The fact that it took you a baseball game to realize your
• 1:50:52
  wife was unhappy. The joy of life, what he's been
• 1:50:59
  missing. Yeah, and then God, when they,
• 1:51:02
  when she had to let him go, when she had to say bye to him.
• 1:51:06
  Oh no, stop. Because actually, the bodyguard,
• 1:51:09
  come to find out, he's like North Korean.
• 1:51:12
  Yeah, yeah. I don't know if he was from
• 1:51:14
  Pyongyang, but he, I can't remember, but he was basically
• 1:51:18
  eating up all of his communist propaganda.
• 1:51:20
  Yeah. And wanting to join the Korean
• 1:51:22
  War, right. And fight on behalf of the
• 1:51:25
  North. Yes.
• 1:51:26
  And their goodbye. Again, I was bawling my eyes
• 1:51:31
  out. Anyway, Long story short, the
• 1:51:37
  Yosef ends up even withholding letters that the bodyguard sends
• 1:51:42
  to her. Very notebook style.
• 1:51:46
  I guess he was like, well, if she stayed even after I told her
• 1:51:48
  she could leave with him back to Korea, then I'm going to make
• 1:51:52
  sure she stays here like that. She's loyal, right?
• 1:51:55
  And there's no contact between them.
• 1:51:57
  So we're never seeing that. Just such an insecure little
• 1:52:00
  man. So insecure and so yeah.
• 1:52:04
  And I don't think we see we don't have him in the 80s,
• 1:52:07
  right, or present day. I don't think so.
• 1:52:09
  No, no, we don't have any I. Can't remember.
• 1:52:13
  I can't remember if they said. I mean, I can't imagine he'd
• 1:52:16
  live another 40 years after getting an atom bomb to the
• 1:52:20
  face. But that's true.
• 1:52:22
  That's true. Anyway, that's neither here nor
• 1:52:24
  there. Oh, let's talk about NSY and the
• 1:52:27
  whole backstabbing that happens really fast.
• 1:52:31
  Yeah, which we kind of touched on cuz Solomon being a jerk for
• 1:52:34
  most. Solomon's an asshole, but NSY is
• 1:52:37
  also an asshole and they are actually really well matched.
• 1:52:41
  They are. They are very well matched, yes.
• 1:52:43
  Right. They're both in the same
• 1:52:44
  corporate world of billion dollar real estate.
• 1:52:49
  She is very competent at her job and the only thing that holds
• 1:52:51
  her back is the fact that she's a woman.
• 1:52:54
  So she's facing gender discrimination in the workplace.
• 1:52:57
  Yep, major. Their whole romance really gets
• 1:53:01
  going when he tells her to a face like you should run.
• 1:53:03
  You should be running this place right?
• 1:53:06
  You're the best person they got here and starts to compliment
• 1:53:09
  her in in a valid way because it's all true.
• 1:53:13
  And she was like, thank you, I agree.
• 1:53:17
  Let's get together. Come to find out she is also
• 1:53:22
  highborn, right? Like technically she comes from
• 1:53:26
  a wealthy background. Her parents have expectations of
• 1:53:29
  who she should marry And instead of and this is classic K drama.
• 1:53:33
  I have to say classic K drama and they're an interracial
• 1:53:38
  couple and instead of in the 80s and instead of her being proud
• 1:53:44
  of him and showing him off and introducing him to her family
• 1:53:50
  like he like she ends up getting introduced to his family because
• 1:53:53
  she meets Sonja. She keeps everything about them
• 1:53:57
  a secret and still continues to see the guy that she has an
• 1:54:02
  arranged engagement with, arranged marriage with.
• 1:54:06
  And the moment that he goes to see her in the restaurant, he
• 1:54:09
  follows her from work to the restaurant.
• 1:54:11
  She said she had all this work she had to do, yadda yadda.
• 1:54:14
  Can't meet tonight. So he's already suspicious after
• 1:54:18
  getting those photographs from the the Yakuza again.
• 1:54:21
  I who are these guys? The Yakuza is now in real
• 1:54:24
  estate. OK, fine.
• 1:54:26
  They've always been a real estate, definitely.
• 1:54:29
  It's like the mafia, like mafia is always in real estate.
• 1:54:32
  Yeah. So it was just a little like off
• 1:54:35
  putting, I guess. Is everyone that part of the
• 1:54:38
  Yukos? I had all these questions and I
• 1:54:40
  I I think I just missed it. But anyway, they tell him she's
• 1:54:44
  cheating on you. There's something about her that
• 1:54:47
  we we have this on her. You can use it to get what you
• 1:54:52
  want. And he has to confirm for
• 1:54:53
  himself and he make locks eyes with her in the restaurant in
• 1:54:57
  the mirror, which again, every time you have a mirror, it's
• 1:55:01
  like an identity crisis somebody's two faced.
• 1:55:04
  She doesn't acknowledge him. Yep.
• 1:55:06
  She looks away the moment she sees him in the mirror though.
• 1:55:10
  I love how her facial expressions.
• 1:55:11
  Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. Expert.
• 1:55:15
  Definitely expert. And that's it.
• 1:55:17
  He decides to break up with her. Get his revenge on her and let
• 1:55:22
  as well as everybody else. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:55:24
  But I mean, even before that, when they break up, he's like,
• 1:55:28
  would you what? I can't remember what he even
• 1:55:31
  says to her, but he's like, can you promise to not to not take
• 1:55:34
  meetings with this dude that your parents want you to marry
• 1:55:37
  and be loyal to me and be proud of this relationship basically.
• 1:55:42
  And she says I'll try. Yeah.
• 1:55:45
  He's like not good enough bye. And that that turns into he gets
• 1:55:50
  her fired. He.
• 1:55:51
  Gets her fired. He knows how.
• 1:55:54
  Like it's funny because she even though in this workplace she's
• 1:55:59
  trying to climb to the top and trying to bite and breakthrough
• 1:56:04
  that glass ceiling, that is gender discrimination.
• 1:56:07
  He's doing the same thing but in their relationship.
• 1:56:12
  He never could do that with her family.
• 1:56:15
  So he's not going to let her do that at work.
• 1:56:19
  At this point, it was life or death for him because the
• 1:56:21
  accuser was basically like, OK, we need to get this deal done
• 1:56:26
  now or else we're going to take it out on you and your flesh.
• 1:56:30
  So you choose, right? Right.
• 1:56:33
  But I mean, he was an asshole doing it.
• 1:56:36
  I mean, it wasn't it wasn't a good look for him.
• 1:56:39
  I. Mean and the shot of the old
• 1:56:40
  lady leaving her property. Yeah.
• 1:56:44
  With nothing, nothing, she just has her dog and he doesn't get
• 1:56:49
  out of the car to say anything to her, to offer any words of
• 1:56:54
  encouragement, to say you did the right thing.
• 1:56:57
  Nothing. She just leaves with this, with
• 1:57:00
  this giant wad of cash in her bank account and everything that
• 1:57:04
  she built is gone. He made her give up this
• 1:57:07
  property that she had lived with trauma and the suspicions that
• 1:57:15
  this property is literally sitting on top of bones, right?
• 1:57:19
  It was. I mean, it's like unassailable.
• 1:57:23
  How do you do that? Right?
• 1:57:25
  How do you how do you exploit that and her trauma?
• 1:57:28
  He's an asshole. He's an asshole, yeah.
• 1:57:31
  So yeah, a lot to unpack there. But just to wrap it up, I think
• 1:57:36
  that it was very telling that Anna Soy's character doesn't cry
• 1:57:40
  when she breaks up with Solomon. She cries when she's fired.
• 1:57:43
  Absolutely, yeah. That was her priority.
• 1:57:46
  That was where she wanted to excel in.
• 1:57:49
  And I think she also, she's meeting this guy for an arranged
• 1:57:53
  marriage. It's the 80s.
• 1:57:55
  It's very traditional. She comes from a high class
• 1:57:59
  family. So they obviously have
• 1:58:00
  traditions that lower class families don't.
• 1:58:03
  I mean, it's old blood, right? Maybe to an extent too.
• 1:58:08
  And this is how I kind of interpret it is like she's going
• 1:58:10
  to be a housewife. She's not.
• 1:58:12
  And she doesn't want that. She does not want that.
• 1:58:15
  But her getting fired, she's gonna have to accept that, you
• 1:58:19
  know, because she's gonna marry this guy.
• 1:58:23
  And that was her second. Yeah, maybe.
• 1:58:26
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:58:28
  Or at least in a way that she could marry this guy and still
• 1:58:31
  have the job, you know, and maybe she had.
• 1:58:34
  We didn't really get insight of her relationship with her family
• 1:58:37
  other than them wanting her to meet this guy.
• 1:58:39
  So maybe it was kind of a rebellion thing where she had
• 1:58:42
  this job. And and they they hint at that
• 1:58:45
  too, with I think she had slept with the white guy.
• 1:58:48
  Yeah, she did. And he says, like, maybe it was
• 1:58:51
  this, maybe it was that. Maybe it was because it was the
• 1:58:54
  thrill of just the rebellion of it all.
• 1:58:58
  She's sleeping with a white guy very, very similar to Noah and
• 1:59:03
  his college girlfriend. Absolutely.
• 1:59:06
  Absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:59:08
  Generational. Gosh, I don't have much to say
• 1:59:11
  much else to say other than as a woman.
• 1:59:13
  I was very sad and I empathize with her.
• 1:59:16
  Absolutely, yeah. But that's just the way the
• 1:59:20
  cookie crumbles. Yeah, I mean, like, at the end
• 1:59:23
  of the day, they both jabbed at each other.
• 1:59:26
  Like I think both of them did bad things to each other to get
• 1:59:29
  what they want and to get ahead. And she lost.
• 1:59:34
  Like she lost. That's that's plain and simple.
• 1:59:36
  Is like she threw him under the bus multiple times and he did
• 1:59:41
  the same. Doesn't make him a better
• 1:59:43
  person. Absolutely not.
• 1:59:44
  But it also doesn't make her a St. either.
• 1:59:48
  I think this relationship was never going to work out.
• 1:59:51
  They had too much ambition between the two and the work
• 1:59:56
  environment that they worked in did not cater to collaboration,
• 2:00:02
  they catered to competition. And.
• 2:00:05
  So it eventually was going to come to this boiling point where
• 2:00:08
  someone in that between the two of them was going to win, at
• 2:00:12
  least professionally. And I mean, at the beginning of
• 2:00:15
  the season, he was the one losing because he had gotten
• 2:00:19
  fired and was trying to figure out what to do next.
• 2:00:22
  She was still working there. Wow, we've unpacked a lot and I
• 2:00:28
  think we're at the end of the show.
• 2:00:31
  So there's this one quote I I did write down.
• 2:00:35
  I think this was at the very end of the show.
• 2:00:38
  Like I know what happened in the last episode but I want to say
• 2:00:42
  it was like the last scene maybe OK, or maybe Noah's was the last
• 2:00:47
  scene but either way I'll. Read Oh, Noah's was the last
• 2:00:49
  scene. You're right.
• 2:00:50
  Well, this definitely happened in the show.
• 2:00:52
  So it says it was Sonja when he was she was talking to her son
• 2:00:58
  at the kitchen table. In the present day, it was her
• 2:01:02
  and. Massage.
• 2:01:03
  Shoe. Yeah.
• 2:01:03
  Massage shoe, whatever it is, you and I are here though so
• 2:01:09
  many of those we have loved are gone.
• 2:01:11
  We are here sitting at this table and Solomon is here as
• 2:01:15
  well. And you were saying earlier
• 2:01:19
  where the food was a huge thing, mainly more in season 1 than
• 2:01:23
  season 2. But I think they had a lot of
• 2:01:25
  shots anytime they were in this household in the present day
• 2:01:29
  house around this kitchen table. And I think that, I mean, I
• 2:01:35
  think overall people view the kitchen table overall in a
• 2:01:38
  household as one of those type gathering places, you know, so.
• 2:01:42
  And I think, I mean, due to this being around food and Korean
• 2:01:45
  culture is around food in general, I think it was kind of
• 2:01:49
  fitting. Fitting.
• 2:01:51
  Yeah, it was fitting to have these more serious and I mean,
• 2:01:57
  granted most of the most of the shots of her kitchen table in
• 2:02:01
  the present day was dark lighting.
• 2:02:03
  It was usually not happy moments because it was only her and her
• 2:02:07
  son living in the house, but it was still around this kitchen
• 2:02:10
  table and it was still that centerpiece of family that you
• 2:02:16
  see throughout the generations in this show.
• 2:02:19
  So I I felt that was very fitting.
• 2:02:22
  And then the quote helped it along due to we're still a
• 2:02:25
  family. We're still here, no matter
• 2:02:26
  who's around this table and who's not.
• 2:02:29
  I like that. So season 3, hopefully we find
• 2:02:32
  out what happened. I mean, again, we haven't read
• 2:02:35
  the book, so we don't know. We're just going off of the TV
• 2:02:39
  show. Yeah, you know, we're going to
• 2:02:41
  find out what happens to Noah, what happens to the rest of the
• 2:02:43
  family. And I still think it's a, it's a
• 2:02:46
  fantastic show. Highly recommend.
• 2:02:48
  If you've gone this far and we've spoiled the shit out of it
• 2:02:50
  for you, definitely sit there and watch it.
• 2:02:53
  It's only 8 episodes. I did a free trial of Apple TV
• 2:02:57
  Plus to binge it in like two or three days.
• 2:03:01
  You can do that, or you could just purchase a month of Apple
• 2:03:03
  TV Plus and watch it. I also ending on season 4 I
• 2:03:09
  wanna say OK so you could also just wait until all Four Seasons
• 2:03:13
  are out in the next and just. Watch four years.
• 2:03:18
  In the next seven years. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:03:21
  The way that streamers put out, it's a different conversation
• 2:03:26
  that I feel like I've already had.
• 2:03:27
  But yeah, thank you so much for going on this journey with me
• 2:03:31
  through the 40s and 50s and 80s in Japan.
• 2:03:35
  It was a very rich text. Oh absolutely, and I don't think
• 2:03:40
  we even delved in everything. We didn't we didn't cover
• 2:03:43
  everything. There's going to be something
• 2:03:45
  like we stopped this podcast and be like, oh shit, we didn't talk
• 2:03:48
  about this. And that happens for every
• 2:03:50
  podcast, right? There's only so much you can
• 2:03:52
  cover. It is 8 hours of television.
• 2:03:55
  We can't cover that much. But I think we tried our best
• 2:03:59
  and we'd love to talk to you guys more about Season 2 of
• 2:04:03
  Pachinko if you'd like. Caitlin, where can people find
• 2:04:05
  you online? You can find me on Instagram,
• 2:04:09
  TikTok, maybe I saw the YouTube channel.
• 2:04:13
  You can find me on YouTube as well under the same name.
• 2:04:16
  No sleep, the number 4 dramas. I also have the podcast which I
• 2:04:20
  put on YouTube and Spotify. So yeah, DM me, hit me up.
• 2:04:24
  Nice. Thank you again, Caitlin.
• 2:04:26
  And that's been our show. I'm Jessica and this has been
• 2:04:29
  the Taybot K Rambles podcast.