Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #943 The 5 Marriage I Don'ts

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#943 The 5 Marriage I Don'ts · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.
0:07
Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 2: Now. So I've just finished reading a book, Kylie. It's
0:12
Speaker 2: called Get Married. Get Married is the like just picking
0:16
Speaker 2: it up and looking at it. Get Married. It's a
0:18
Speaker 2: provocative title for a book. Get Married by a University
0:21
Speaker 2: of Virginia sociologist. He's also the lead researcher on a
0:24
Speaker 2: project in the United States called the National Marriage Project.
0:27
Speaker 2: His name is Professor Brad Wilcox.
0:30
Speaker 1: It's interesting that that's the title of his book when
0:33
Speaker 1: my understanding is that marriage numbers are declining.
0:38
Speaker 2: They actually are across the Western world. Fewer people are
0:40
Speaker 2: getting married. Partnering is as popular as ever. But making
0:45
Speaker 2: the commitment to sign up for a lifetime of monogamy,
0:49
Speaker 2: I thought you.
0:49
Speaker 1: Want to say misery, no, no, no monogamy.
0:52
Speaker 2: In fact, well, and here's the interesting thing about the book.
0:55
Speaker 2: The research shows that if you can have a happy, safe,
0:58
Speaker 2: supportive marriage, it's the golden ticket to happiness. It's one
1:02
Speaker 2: of the best predictors. In fact, it is the best
1:05
Speaker 2: predictor of happiness in our lives.
1:07
Speaker 1: Check this out.
1:08
Speaker 2: I found something just finding the stat here. The odds
1:11
Speaker 2: of being very happy increased by sixty four percent if
1:14
Speaker 2: you have a college degree over those who don't. In
1:17
Speaker 2: other words, people who have a university degree is sixty
1:20
Speaker 2: four percent more likely to be very happy than those
1:23
Speaker 2: without the degree. Oh, by the way, I should just
1:25
Speaker 2: highlight I'm about to say a whole lot of provocative stuff.
1:27
Speaker 2: I'm not in a soap box here. I'm just looking
1:28
Speaker 2: at pure stats. Okay. It doesn't mean that if you
1:31
Speaker 2: don't have a university degree you can't be happy. It
1:34
Speaker 2: just means that the odds are being very happy go
1:37
Speaker 2: up by sixty four percent if you've got that degree.
1:39
Speaker 2: Plenty of people with degrees are miserable, and plenty of
1:41
Speaker 2: people without degrees are wonderfully happy. This is just on
1:44
Speaker 2: average statistically, that's how it goes. Odds of being very
1:47
Speaker 2: happy with higher income increased by eighty eight percent. If
1:52
Speaker 2: you're very satisfied with your work, the odds are being
1:55
Speaker 2: very happy increased by one hundred and forty five percent
1:58
Speaker 2: over those who are not happy with their work. The
2:00
Speaker 2: odds of being very happy increase by one hundred and
2:04
Speaker 2: fifty one percent if you're married over those who are
2:08
Speaker 2: not married but get this, if you are in a
2:11
Speaker 2: very happy marriage compared to those who are not married.
2:14
Speaker 2: To those who are not in a happy marriage, the
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Speaker 2: odds are being very happy increased by five hundred and
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Speaker 2: forty five percent. Marriage predicts happiness better than education, better
2:24
Speaker 2: than work, better than money.
2:26
Speaker 1: It's an astounding stat So how do you do the
2:28
Speaker 1: mass on something like that.
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Speaker 2: I like, it's a big number.
2:33
Speaker 1: I'm struggling with my words because I'm actually looking at
2:35
Speaker 1: the graph, and when you look at it pictorially, you've
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Speaker 1: got a teeny tiny little blue line down here for
2:42
Speaker 1: sixty four percent, and then it's like having a I
2:46
Speaker 1: don't know, two hundred story building right next to it.
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Speaker 1: This five hundred and fifty five percent, five hundred and
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Speaker 1: forty five sorry, h five hundred and forty five percent
2:56
Speaker 1: better chance of being very happy.
2:59
Speaker 2: So simple way of looking at this is they simply
3:02
Speaker 2: ask people whether well being is up to and then
3:05
Speaker 2: they look at their various sociodemographic statistics. So, are you married,
3:09
Speaker 2: you're not married, what sort of education level do you have?
3:12
Speaker 2: All those kinds of things, and they literally just look
3:14
Speaker 2: at the odds of scoring in the very high range
3:18
Speaker 2: based on what those boxes are that you ticked. And
3:20
Speaker 2: so if you've ticked that box and said I'm in
3:22
Speaker 2: a very happy marriage, the odds of you being very
3:25
Speaker 2: happy are five and a half times greater than the
3:30
Speaker 2: likelihood of you being happy if you're not in a
3:33
Speaker 2: very happy marriage.
3:34
Speaker 1: That's it.
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Speaker 2: It's actually pretty basic stats. But the truth of it
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Speaker 2: is that we don't do maths very well and we're
3:41
Speaker 2: really bad with probabilities, and as a result, when we
3:43
Speaker 2: look at these numbers, they can often not make much sense.
3:46
Speaker 2: The other thing is it's kind of a provocative and
3:48
Speaker 2: confronting thing to hear. Now again, I want to emphasize
3:50
Speaker 2: there are people who are not in happy marriages that
3:52
Speaker 2: can be happy. There are people who are not married
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Speaker 2: that are wonderfully happy, and I know plenty of married
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Speaker 2: people who are kind of miserable.
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Speaker 1: As well, people who've got a lots money.
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Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So this is not just about the one
4:03
Speaker 2: fact that what it's looking at, quite simply, very simply
4:07
Speaker 2: is if you're in a good marriage, if you're in
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Speaker 2: a very happy marriage, you're much more likely to be
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Speaker 2: a happy person. So it's not about shaming anyone, and
4:14
Speaker 2: it's not about judging anyone. It's not about pointing fingers
4:16
Speaker 2: and that sort of thing. These stats just point in
4:19
Speaker 2: that direction. Here's another stat for you while we're on it.
4:21
Speaker 2: Children who are raised in homes where parents are married
4:24
Speaker 2: are much more likely to go to university. They're much
4:26
Speaker 2: more likely to stay off drugs, they're much more likely
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Speaker 2: to be financially stable, they're more likely to generally stay
4:31
Speaker 2: out of trouble. Intact families just an enormous increase in
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Speaker 2: the positive outcomes versus other families. Now, of course, there
4:40
Speaker 2: are plenty of kids that come from alternative and diverse
4:44
Speaker 2: families that have wonderful outcomes. It's just that you get
4:48
Speaker 2: more positive outcomes with intact families where a couple are
4:52
Speaker 2: happily married. One more stat. This is a really interesting one.
4:57
Speaker 2: People who are married tend to enjoy much greater financial
5:01
Speaker 2: benefits than those who are not, even if you're living
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Speaker 2: in a live in de facto relationship.
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Speaker 1: So I find this interesting because as parents with dependent children,
5:12
Speaker 1: it feels like the financial frame is intense.
5:16
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. So a two thousand and seven survey
5:19
Speaker 2: of consumer finance looked at the median net worth of
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Speaker 2: households with children by family structure. And what they found
5:26
Speaker 2: was that the people who were doing the very best
5:28
Speaker 2: were married and intact median net worth two hundred and
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Speaker 2: twenty eight thousand, two hundred dollars. Now, this start is
5:34
Speaker 2: fifteen years old, but we see continued evidence of this.
5:39
Speaker 2: Married in a step family, that two hundred and twenty
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Speaker 2: eight drops down to ninety six thousand, divorced, thirty two thousand,
5:46
Speaker 2: cohabiting eighty nine hundred. I mean, the number just drops
5:51
Speaker 2: precipitously from that two hundred and twenty eight thousand. Again,
5:54
Speaker 2: this is net worth, and we're going back fifteen years.
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Speaker 2: But what research does show is that men men who
6:00
Speaker 2: are married earn twenty seven percent more than when they're unmarried.
6:03
Speaker 2: Networth of both individuals is higher, they accumulate more assets,
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Speaker 2: they retire wealthier than their unmarried peers. It's the elephant
6:09
Speaker 2: in the room. No one wants to talk about it,
6:12
Speaker 2: and I'm sensitive to the fact that it's a tricky topic,
6:15
Speaker 2: but the data is really really clear. When we look
6:18
Speaker 2: at the very biggest research projects across time, they conclusively
6:22
Speaker 2: conclusively point to marriage as being fundamental to positive outcomes,
6:26
Speaker 2: well being, a life well lived.
6:31
Speaker 1: So today we're going to talk about five mistakes we
6:35
Speaker 1: want to avoid within our relationships so that we can
6:38
Speaker 1: have very happy marriages.
6:40
Speaker 2: So the first one is the me first mindset. Me
6:43
Speaker 2: first mindset is pretty much talking about being selfish. It's
6:46
Speaker 2: basically saying I'm not considering you. It's kryptonite to a marriage.
6:50
Speaker 2: So I'll use a stereotypical example, a husband who feels
6:53
Speaker 2: like he's entitled to a clean house and a dinner
6:55
Speaker 2: on the table every night, and intimacy on as needs basis.
6:59
Speaker 1: Think it could be even more simpler than that, though,
7:02
Speaker 1: a husband who goes to work and his wife stays
7:05
Speaker 1: at home and looks after a brand new baby, but
7:08
Speaker 1: just expects that his job is outside of the house
7:11
Speaker 1: and her job's inside the house.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, or even worse, a husband who goes to work
7:14
Speaker 2: and a wife who goes to work, but he still
7:16
Speaker 2: thinks that she's going to carry the line's share of
7:19
Speaker 2: the labor in terms of keeping the house maintained and
7:22
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, and.
7:22
Speaker 1: The mental load.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's just this Essentially, it's a selfishness, like
7:26
Speaker 2: I'll look after me and you look after everything else.
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Speaker 2: Maybe it's endlessly pursuing a goal expense of the relationship
7:31
Speaker 2: whatever it is. Regardless of the scenario, selfishness subsumes any
7:35
Speaker 2: goodwill and it raises resentment and crushes the companionship. There's
7:39
Speaker 2: another example of me first mindsets as well, and that
7:42
Speaker 2: is when somebody tries to mold their husband or wife
7:45
Speaker 2: into their perfect version of who they want them to
7:47
Speaker 2: be or who they think they would be as well.
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Speaker 2: Like I'm an outgoing person. If I'm constantly trying to
7:52
Speaker 2: get you to be outgoing and you're not an outgoing person,
7:55
Speaker 2: I'm trying to mold you into my perfect version of
7:57
Speaker 2: me because I think I'm awesome and I think that's
8:00
Speaker 2: life should be. But it's not going to work because
8:03
Speaker 2: I'm failing to understand your hopes and dreams and goals
8:06
Speaker 2: not just for life, but maybe just for the next
8:08
Speaker 2: five minutes while we're introducing ourselves to these people. And
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Speaker 2: if we can't calibrate appropriately, that selfishness causes a relationship
8:15
Speaker 2: to come undone.
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Speaker 1: That's why we just do so well together. We're so different.
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Speaker 1: But I actually think while we haven't tried to change
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Speaker 1: each other, we've inadvertently taken on some of each other's traits.
8:29
Speaker 1: And I used to be really shy. I didn't used
8:32
Speaker 1: to kind of get out there in.
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Speaker 2: The early days. I was selfish and just thought that
8:36
Speaker 2: you needed to be like me. Well, but I love
8:40
Speaker 2: your differences to me Now I just cherish them and
8:43
Speaker 2: celebrate them now.
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Speaker 1: But you bounce off the walls all the time, and
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Speaker 1: so my nice quiet has kind of calmed you down
8:49
Speaker 1: a little bit over time.
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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe just a bit, just a bit. Yeah, I
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Speaker 2: don't know if that's your it's just me getting older
8:54
Speaker 2: and feeling more tired. But either way, let's look at
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Speaker 2: number two.
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Speaker 1: Number two is the maybe I do mindset.
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Speaker 2: Okay, this one is basically about commitment. People who question
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Speaker 2: commitment create conditions that are going to develop into a
9:08
Speaker 2: lack of trust. If I don't feel like you're fully committed,
9:10
Speaker 2: If I don't feel like you're fully committed, then I'm
9:12
Speaker 2: not going to invest as much. And this is a
9:15
Speaker 2: really provocative thing to say. I recognize this, but it's
9:18
Speaker 2: based on solid evidence from one researcher in particular. His
9:21
Speaker 2: name is Scott Stanley. He's done some work with Glena Roodes,
9:23
Speaker 2: Howard Markman. These guys have been looking at this thing
9:25
Speaker 2: called the cohabitation effect since the nineteen eighties, and what
9:28
Speaker 2: their research shows is that when people slide into a
9:32
Speaker 2: relationship rather than decide to get into a relationship, commitment
9:35
Speaker 2: levels are lower, which means that investment levels are lower,
9:37
Speaker 2: which means that trust levels are lower, and the corollary,
9:42
Speaker 2: reduce commitment, reduce trust, poorer relationship quality. This is the
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Speaker 2: maybe I do mindset, and it seems to backfire in
9:51
Speaker 2: terms of having a healthy relationship.
9:53
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, we shared our story on
9:56
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day how we met and the things that made
9:59
Speaker 1: up our relationship, and you shared a story about our
10:04
Speaker 1: early days in that first year. We had an altercation
10:08
Speaker 1: at some point and I kind of looked at you
10:10
Speaker 1: and said, well, if you feel like that, maybe we
10:11
Speaker 1: should just get divorced and you know, save each other
10:13
Speaker 1: a whole heap of trouble. And at that point you
10:15
Speaker 1: acknowledged that that was a conversation that we would never
10:18
Speaker 1: have again. That divorce wasn't kind of not a word.
10:22
Speaker 2: We'll say, and it's not an option in this relationship
10:24
Speaker 2: because we do treat each other well and we can
10:26
Speaker 2: just figure this stuff out.
10:28
Speaker 1: And I think that that changed something in both of
10:31
Speaker 1: us as we recognize that we were in this for
10:35
Speaker 1: good and bad, that they were going to be challenging times,
10:37
Speaker 1: but we were completely committed to one another and to
10:40
Speaker 1: the relationship that we were creating.
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Speaker 2: It makes such a difference when we have a strong
10:44
Speaker 2: commitment rather than maybe I do mindset, So number one,
10:46
Speaker 2: the me first mindset guaranteed undermine and harm your marriage.
10:49
Speaker 2: Number two that maybe I do mindset. The third thing
10:52
Speaker 2: number three expecting a soulmate marriage. No such thing as
10:56
Speaker 2: a soulmate. Got to get over the idea that there's
10:58
Speaker 2: a soulmate. If you think that a relationship is about
11:01
Speaker 2: intense emotion and romantic connection, it's almost certain that you're
11:05
Speaker 2: going to be crushed at some point when the emotion
11:08
Speaker 2: subsides and the romantic connection dims. The best research that
11:13
Speaker 2: I found in this show is that if you're expecting
11:15
Speaker 2: a soilimate marriage, you should be prepared for a new
11:19
Speaker 2: relationship sometime in the future because soilme mates simply don't exist.
11:23
Speaker 2: It's fine to have a whole lot of romance and
11:25
Speaker 2: togetherness happening, but relationships are also about children and commitment
11:31
Speaker 2: and financial stuff and stuff.
11:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, stuff, And you.
11:36
Speaker 2: Usually find that your silmate isn't quite the person that
11:38
Speaker 2: you thought that they were. When the rubber hits the road,
11:41
Speaker 2: when randomness and volatility start to hit you.
11:44
Speaker 1: Having been through twenty five years.
11:46
Speaker 2: Together, hey, excuse me, excuse me? Twenty five years? Can
11:50
Speaker 2: I just mention this? We have approximately thirteen days until
11:53
Speaker 2: it's twenty six twenty six.
11:55
Speaker 1: Years, I know, but we're still at twenty five. Okay, fine.
12:00
Speaker 1: We have experienced is that beautiful ebb and flow of
12:04
Speaker 1: life together. And sometimes things are cruising and we feel
12:09
Speaker 1: like we're flying on cloud nine, and other times we
12:12
Speaker 1: feel like we're in the depths of I don't know,
12:14
Speaker 1: some swamp in the middle of nowhere. It gets really
12:17
Speaker 1: really hard. But having that absolute knowledge that yours committed
12:22
Speaker 1: to the relationship as I am, means that we can
12:25
Speaker 1: work through that and recognize and know that and we're
12:28
Speaker 1: not going to stay down in that swamp forever. That
12:30
Speaker 1: there's going to be another mountain peak and we're going
12:32
Speaker 1: to enjoy life again together.
12:34
Speaker 2: Number four failure to connect. If you want to harm
12:38
Speaker 2: your marriage, just stop connecting. Connection means seeing, hearing, valuing technology, interfares, priorities, compete.
12:44
Speaker 2: Life gets really busy babies, you get exhausted. Intimate quality declines.
12:49
Speaker 2: Not for everyone, but for many people. The amount of
12:52
Speaker 2: effort you put in reduces because you've kind of put
12:55
Speaker 2: effort into so many other places. Date night, date night disappears,
12:59
Speaker 2: and all of our best intentioned efforts that fail because
13:03
Speaker 2: of just running house, running a life gets in the way.
13:06
Speaker 2: Failure to connect is a guaranteed way to harm your marriage.
13:10
Speaker 2: Got to find ways, got to find times, got to
13:12
Speaker 2: find the capacity to prioritize and see here and value
13:15
Speaker 2: one another.
13:16
Speaker 1: I think the magic word here is intention.
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Speaker 2: I'd go further. It's not just about having the intention,
13:21
Speaker 2: it's actually putting into action. I intend to connect with you,
13:24
Speaker 2: but I get busy. Intention isn't quite far enough. There's
13:28
Speaker 2: that old saying that the road to hell is paved
13:30
Speaker 2: with good intentions. You can intend to do this and
13:33
Speaker 2: intend to do that. I think it actually requires action.
13:35
Speaker 2: It requires connection and commitment, and that's what makes the
13:38
Speaker 2: marriage work. If you want to harm your marriage, just
13:41
Speaker 2: focus on intention rather than action.
13:43
Speaker 1: Well, Number five is being around others who don't value marriage.
13:47
Speaker 2: You want to hear some crazy stats. This from a
13:50
Speaker 2: researcher named roseen Quist and colleagues who said this. In
13:54
Speaker 2: one of their studies, they found that the likelihood of
13:57
Speaker 2: divorce increased by seventy five percent end for individuals with
14:02
Speaker 2: a divorce friend. Let me say that again, if your
14:04
Speaker 2: friends are divorced, your chances of divorce go up by
14:06
Speaker 2: seventy five percent. Some other researchers McPherson and colleagues found
14:10
Speaker 2: that this effect extends to friends of friends. So if
14:14
Speaker 2: you are one degree of separation removed from the divorce
14:18
Speaker 2: se you're still at a thirty three percent higher chance
14:22
Speaker 2: of divorce. So there's this ripple effect. There's a divorce contagion,
14:27
Speaker 2: you might even call it divorce ideation, where within social
14:30
Speaker 2: circles there's going to be some influence on attitudes and behaviors.
14:35
Speaker 2: Well beyond just the people involved in the divorce, friends
14:38
Speaker 2: and even friends of friends are at increased risk of divorce.
14:42
Speaker 1: I remember, just after I finished high school, I caught
14:45
Speaker 1: up with one of my high school teachers. I absolutely
14:48
Speaker 1: idolized this woman. She was amazing, and she was so
14:50
Speaker 1: instrumental in me just getting through year twelve but loving
14:55
Speaker 1: my class with her. And you and I were engaged
14:58
Speaker 1: by that stage, but I I was going through this
15:01
Speaker 1: a little bit of an epiphany in my own life,
15:03
Speaker 1: and I had never had someone believe in me the
15:07
Speaker 1: way you did. I started dreaming about who I could
15:10
Speaker 1: be and what I could achieve in my life based
15:12
Speaker 1: on the conversations you and I had had, and the
15:16
Speaker 1: struggle I was having was if I wanted to achieve
15:19
Speaker 1: those things, I couldn't see how I could achieve them
15:22
Speaker 1: and have a family. They were not congruent where I
15:26
Speaker 1: wanted to go or where I thought I wanted to go,
15:29
Speaker 1: and where I had committed to go. We caught up
15:32
Speaker 1: one afternoon for afternoon tea and I was sharing just
15:37
Speaker 1: how excited I was about getting married and all of
15:40
Speaker 1: the things that associated with that, And as the conversation continued,
15:43
Speaker 1: I found myself sharing with her this newfound confidence that
15:46
Speaker 1: I had. She was my teacher, so she knew the
15:48
Speaker 1: person I was previous, and so she could see this
15:50
Speaker 1: growth in me that had occurred. In a sense because
15:54
Speaker 1: of my relationship with you. You had provided me with
15:57
Speaker 1: a belief in me that I had never experienced before,
16:02
Speaker 1: and so the confidence that I had in what I
16:05
Speaker 1: could do with my life like just blew out of
16:08
Speaker 1: the water. And so as I was sharing all of
16:10
Speaker 1: these dreams and goals and things that I, you know,
16:13
Speaker 1: aspirations that I was thinking about. She looked at me
16:16
Speaker 1: and she said, Kylie, why would you ever want to
16:18
Speaker 1: get married? She said, look at you. You've got your
16:21
Speaker 1: whole world ahead of you. You could be any one
16:24
Speaker 1: of those things. Why would you trap yourself in a
16:27
Speaker 1: relationship and minimize your capacity? And I just remember walking
16:33
Speaker 1: away from that and feeling so deeply saddened by the
16:38
Speaker 1: conversation I had. It actually confirmed to me that while
16:42
Speaker 1: all of those other places would have given me life
16:46
Speaker 1: experience that I will never experience, I would never have
16:51
Speaker 1: experienced the joy and the connection and the love and
16:55
Speaker 1: security that I've experienced in the life that I have
16:57
Speaker 1: created with you.
16:59
Speaker 2: Marriage matters. It may not be a popular thing to
17:02
Speaker 2: say the research points in that direction, and certainly our
17:05
Speaker 2: experience does, but it's about having a good marriage as well.
17:07
Speaker 2: It's about working on it, being committed, and figuring out
17:10
Speaker 2: how you can avoid those mistakes that harm marriage the most.
17:13
Speaker 2: If you had to cut through the noise. It's not
17:15
Speaker 2: just about happily ever after fantasies. It's about real world
17:19
Speaker 2: benefits and the data points to financial security, better outcomes
17:22
Speaker 2: for kids. Look, it's not for everyone. I'm actually going
17:25
Speaker 2: to say that marriage is not for everyone, and there
17:27
Speaker 2: are good reasons for some people to not be married.
17:30
Speaker 2: But marriage isn't just about a piece of paper. It's
17:32
Speaker 2: a foundation for a life of meaning and joy and
17:36
Speaker 2: purpose and growth. So I think we need to champion marriage,
17:39
Speaker 2: especially as marriage starts to decline. We've got evidence that
17:41
Speaker 2: it's doing that. We need to celebrate its merits and
17:43
Speaker 2: support those who choose a marriage path. It's time to
17:46
Speaker 2: prioritize the gold stand and read the rewards. The Happy
17:49
Speaker 2: Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland for Bridge Media.
17:51
Speaker 2: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more information about
17:54
Speaker 2: how you can make your family happier and your marriage stronger,
17:57
Speaker 2: visit happy families dot com dot als