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The Winning Game Plan: Simplify Strategy and Build Teams That Win · Business Roundtable

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I'm David Carr
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Speaker 1: of Stuart Your Business, where we bring people together to
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Speaker 1: accomplish great things. Here on the Business Roundtable, I'm glad
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Speaker 1: to have Michael Stewart here, a friend and collaborator, also
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Speaker 1: another Success Champions Network member and founder of the company
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Speaker 1: Business Planning Plus. We're going to get into the Plus.
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Speaker 1: We're getting into business Planning. He really is helping folks
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Speaker 1: simplify strategy, execute and focus and really build momentum in
0:43
Speaker 1: their businesses. So I'm excited to have you here on
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Speaker 1: the podcast. Michael, thank you for joining us.
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Speaker 2: Great to be here, Really excited to see where this
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Speaker 2: conversation goes.
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Speaker 1: David absolutely absolutely. Now, Michael, you and I have been
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Speaker 1: talking actually throughout the year, and one of the things
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Speaker 1: I really liked about our conversations was how do you
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Speaker 1: get business in alignment? And we're helping them be healthier
1:08
Speaker 1: overall in all aspects of the company. Talk to us
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Speaker 1: a little bit about your journey of why you got
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Speaker 1: to where you're at now with you know, building Business
1:18
Speaker 1: Planning Plus and the help you know you've helped dozens
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Speaker 1: of companies now and talk a little bit your journey
1:24
Speaker 1: about why you got to where you're at now and
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Speaker 1: you're helping not only you're based in the UK, but
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Speaker 1: you're helping companies throughout the world.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, So we go right back to the start.
1:37
Speaker 2: My first job was in the bank, and of course
1:39
Speaker 2: in those days in the late nineteen eighties, that was
1:43
Speaker 2: join the bank because it will be a job for life,
1:45
Speaker 2: so that was the way to go, and of course
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Speaker 2: it never ended up being that way. But I got
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Speaker 2: involved with business finance and I will shed moment really
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Speaker 2: for me was in the late nineteen nineties when I
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Speaker 2: did some business finance on a marketing agency that was
2:00
Speaker 2: getting involved with multimedia. So back in the nineteen nineties,
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Speaker 2: even though we were a marketing agency, we shared a
2:08
Speaker 2: lead to download our email on a dial up connection
2:11
Speaker 2: within a marketing agency, so it was right back in
2:14
Speaker 2: the day. I was involved right at the start of
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Speaker 2: marketing on the Internet. So that was a heck of
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Speaker 2: a journey up until about fifteen years ago. I ended
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Speaker 2: up doing digital marketing for some big brands here in
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Speaker 2: the UK and some national names. But fifteen years ago
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Speaker 2: got the opportunity to set out on my own and
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Speaker 2: so yeah, when when freelance, studied doing some consultancy, and
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Speaker 2: I've never looked back and as I say, totally unemployable. Now,
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Speaker 2: the last thing anybody would want to do would get
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Speaker 2: me into a business to work there full time. I
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Speaker 2: think I'm totally unemployable, as a one of us self
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Speaker 2: employed people are. David said it up. I started off
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Speaker 2: by doing a kind of fractional CMO type work, but
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Speaker 2: had I started to work with SME businesses and I
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Speaker 2: realized that those were the most successful, the ones that
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Speaker 2: had a proper plan. So yes, I will be contributing
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Speaker 2: to that plan. But I realized that lots of businesses.
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Speaker 2: As a CMO, I knew that I needed to align
3:24
Speaker 2: what I did with what the business's strategic objectives were,
3:28
Speaker 2: and in some businesses, they didn't know what the strategic
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Speaker 2: objectives were. A lot of the time people say well
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Speaker 2: what are you going to do and they say, well,
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Speaker 2: we're going to double in size in the next three years,
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Speaker 2: and they've nothing more than that. Well, for me, that's
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Speaker 2: not a strategic objective, it's not a direction. It's it's
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Speaker 2: just keeping score. Really is how big of you got
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Speaker 2: and how much money are you're making? So how's that
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Speaker 2: going to come about. So I realized that there was
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Speaker 2: a gap in the market for what I would call
3:57
Speaker 2: a business growth plan and looked around what was available
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Speaker 2: in the marketplace, had been exposed to all sorts of
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Speaker 2: things working in sme businesses, and so develop my own methodology,
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Speaker 2: put that together under the business planning plus brand, and
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Speaker 2: I now have a number of clients that I help
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Speaker 2: annually to do that. And then I also helped to
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Speaker 2: project manage, if you're like, the growth through the year,
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Speaker 2: making sure that that plan isn't just something that gets
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Speaker 2: written and goes in a draw. It's something that lives
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Speaker 2: and breathed throughout the year and could deliver that alignment
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Speaker 2: as we talk about, but also the kind of growth
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Speaker 2: and results that we want at the end of the year.
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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, I mean I love that, Michael. You know,
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Speaker 1: I've I've been able to have business coaches and I think,
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Speaker 1: you know, having folks like you coming in and giving
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Speaker 1: them their this perspective of how like I said, I
4:53
Speaker 1: see people plans that if they're lucky and then they
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Speaker 1: put it away, they forget about it. In some people,
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Speaker 1: like you said, Arenie, in planning, it's more of a hope.
5:02
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, hey, maybe, yeah, yeah, absolutely, Hope
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Speaker 1: is not a plan, right, absolutely.
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Speaker 2: I actually have a slide that I put up when
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Speaker 2: I'm talking about this, where I say that most people
5:16
Speaker 2: spend more time planning their vacations they do planning how
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Speaker 2: are they going to be successful next year in the business.
5:21
Speaker 2: And we all know how difficulty is to plan a vacation,
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Speaker 2: especially if you're bringing two families together. But it's true
5:27
Speaker 2: most people spend more time planning their vacations that they
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Speaker 2: do planning their business success. And so there's a couple
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Speaker 2: of things that an external somebody external facilitating this is
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Speaker 2: gonna it's gonna help you get out of the weeds,
5:41
Speaker 2: help you see the wood for the trees, as we say,
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Speaker 2: help you take a step back. And actually, if there
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Speaker 2: are three parts to this, the first part is doing
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Speaker 2: the planning, The second part is creation of the plan.
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Speaker 2: The third part is then the implementation of the plan.
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Speaker 2: The creation of the plan itself is probably the least
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Speaker 2: valuable element of it. The fact that you take a
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Speaker 2: step back, spend time to be in the moment examining
6:09
Speaker 2: a whole range of areas in which your business could
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Speaker 2: be better, not say, and it's broken, but where you
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Speaker 2: want to improve and what needs to happen to move
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Speaker 2: your business forward. So that exercise of actually that naval gazing,
6:23
Speaker 2: that rolling over the rocks and seeing what's underneath, discussing
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Speaker 2: it and getting the issues out on the table. It
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Speaker 2: is one of the most valuable elements. And then of course, okay,
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Speaker 2: we create a plan, but that's absolutely useless if you
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Speaker 2: don't then not that and have a mechanism for making
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Speaker 2: sure that month on month progress is being made and
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Speaker 2: the things that were committed to are actually being done.
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Speaker 2: So I wanted to be very action orientated in the
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Speaker 2: way that I do it. So in that way, this
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Speaker 2: thing doesn't just become a document that goes in a draw.
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Speaker 2: It's actually at the center of everything week in, week out,
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Speaker 2: month in month out, and it's the point of reference
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Speaker 2: that we use in the leadership team meeting.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that you brought that up. Is it's
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Speaker 1: not just like I hear you saying, it's not just
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Speaker 1: a uh an event, like a one time thing. We
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Speaker 1: do the plan and that's it. What I heard you say, Michael,
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Speaker 1: is there's a rhythm to it. Uh And and like
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Speaker 1: you said, week by week or month by month. You
7:27
Speaker 1: know that we have to like keep you know, look
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Speaker 1: at the plan and then adjust. Right You're you're you're
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Speaker 1: taking action, but it's not we have to understand kind
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Speaker 1: of our north star. But then what are we doing
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Speaker 1: on a like you said, where do you see businesses
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Speaker 1: access in the frequency? And looking at that plan? Michael,
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Speaker 1: what does that look like? Can you walk us through
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Speaker 1: a little bit of that rhythm that you have when
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Speaker 1: you're working with clients.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I think for me it's most exciting.
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Speaker 2: It's there every day. It drives, it drives what you're
7:58
Speaker 2: focused on every day. And there's a there's a there's
8:02
Speaker 2: a great book we have in the UK. It was
8:04
Speaker 2: about a UK British rowing team for the Olympics, and
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Speaker 2: it's called will It Make the Boat Go Faster? And
8:10
Speaker 2: everything they looked at was if I go and eat
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Speaker 2: this pizza, will it make that boat go faster? If
8:16
Speaker 2: we go to the party, will it make that boat
8:18
Speaker 2: go faster? So they're always looking at everything through the
8:22
Speaker 2: lens of will it make the boat go faster? Now,
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Speaker 2: if you break a business down, and I break it
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Speaker 2: down into eleven core areas, Okay, start sales, marketing operations.
8:32
Speaker 2: I could go through them, but the eleven core areas,
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Speaker 2: somebody is responsible for each one of those areas. It
8:37
Speaker 2: could be that people are responsible for multiple areas, but
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Speaker 2: there needs to be a plan for each of those areas.
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Speaker 2: So what is the people plan? What needs to happen?
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Speaker 2: If you take an example of if you wanted to
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Speaker 2: expand overseas, Okay, that's a really you know, there's a
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Speaker 2: strategic decision. I trust that you've you've you've discussed why
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Speaker 2: you would do that and why that would be the
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Speaker 2: best way to expand. But let's say we want to
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Speaker 2: expand overseas. Obviously sales and marketing, we've got to go
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Speaker 2: to that market, we've got to create the demand, we've
9:07
Speaker 2: got to do it. But suddenly operations, customer service people
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Speaker 2: HR data. How do we hold our data and different
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Speaker 2: rules in the UK to the US. There's an IT issue,
9:18
Speaker 2: there's a financial issue. And what we can do is
9:21
Speaker 2: that if we say, right, we're going to go into
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Speaker 2: the US and we're going to launch at the end
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Speaker 2: of Q two, what needs to happen between now and
9:28
Speaker 2: the end of Q two. What does finance have to do?
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Speaker 2: What does customer service have to do. What does HR
9:33
Speaker 2: have to do, sales marketing, what does everybody have to do?
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Speaker 2: And in that way you can go right. By the
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Speaker 2: end of Q two, we need to be here. What
9:42
Speaker 2: are the steps that we need to do, and then
9:45
Speaker 2: those can be talked about. Are you on target to
9:48
Speaker 2: be where we need to be at the end of
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Speaker 2: Q two so that we can launch and everybody can
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Speaker 2: come back to the Senior Leadership team once a month
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Speaker 2: and go right. You can red amber green your initiatives
9:59
Speaker 2: and your project and then the conversation is very much.
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Speaker 2: I have a framework that I use for the Senior
10:07
Speaker 2: Leadership Team meetings because you, like me, probably been in
10:10
Speaker 2: board meetings where probably feel, well, this is the only
10:12
Speaker 2: chance I get to speak, so I'm going to speak
10:14
Speaker 2: for half of now. Okay, board report. I love this framework.
10:20
Speaker 2: What do you need to disclose? So what do you
10:22
Speaker 2: need to tell us about what's going on? If you've
10:24
Speaker 2: got something that's behind schedule, how are you going to
10:26
Speaker 2: get it back on schedule? What do you need to discuss?
10:29
Speaker 2: What might have changed that you then want to bring
10:33
Speaker 2: to the table and get some input on. Okay, and
10:36
Speaker 2: what do you need a decision on? So we've got disclosed, discussed, decide.
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Speaker 2: So our senior leadership team meeting, board meeting, whatever you
10:44
Speaker 2: want to call it, revolves around the things that we've
10:48
Speaker 2: all said are important and are they on track and
10:51
Speaker 2: what do we need to take decisions on as we
10:54
Speaker 2: move through And in that way, if everybody's knocking off
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Speaker 2: all the things that we've agreed and set of important,
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Speaker 2: that there is a chance that we could have a
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Speaker 2: better business at the end of the year that we
11:05
Speaker 2: did at the star of you.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's great. You know you're you're I just
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Speaker 1: did a conversation a few weeks ago Michael here locally
11:14
Speaker 1: in southern California to the International International Internal Auditors and
11:19
Speaker 1: i s ACA group, and we were talking about the
11:21
Speaker 1: breakdown between well for them, they're looking at security to
11:24
Speaker 1: the boardroom and and to your point, Michael, what happens
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Speaker 1: is there's objectives and there's plans, and then people there's
11:30
Speaker 1: misalignment because well I thought this was important. Well I
11:34
Speaker 1: thought this was important, and I like how you just
11:36
Speaker 1: broke it down about when they're coming to speak to
11:38
Speaker 1: the board, are you looking, are you bringing about are
11:41
Speaker 1: you asking clarifying questions? Or is this a point of
11:44
Speaker 1: clarific collaboration. What are we trying to do here? Is
11:47
Speaker 1: what I hear you saying, Michael, Because if you're coming
11:49
Speaker 1: into different angles, you're gonna talk past each other and
11:52
Speaker 1: you're gonna get very frustrated, like, Hey, we want this,
11:54
Speaker 1: but I'm looking for collaboration or I'm actually looking for
11:58
Speaker 1: you to ask me some clarifying questions. I'm not. I'm
12:01
Speaker 1: not collaborating. I'm just going to answer some questions that
12:03
Speaker 1: you can make it move forward. So what to your
12:05
Speaker 1: point of like having a clear guy like you're saying, Michael,
12:08
Speaker 1: so that we're not getting frustrated and walking away from
12:10
Speaker 1: the meeting feeling like, well that didn't land, that didn't
12:13
Speaker 1: get me where I wanted to go. You know right,
12:15
Speaker 1: I'm sure we've all been there.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred Yeah, Bobby is you know there's a
12:23
Speaker 2: saying as well that there's a saying that no plan
12:26
Speaker 2: survives the first contact with the enemy. Isn't there as well,
12:29
Speaker 2: and so part of the discussion could be we thought
12:33
Speaker 2: this was the case. We've started working towards this, you
12:36
Speaker 2: know what, Let's say we're going to employ salespeople or
12:41
Speaker 2: were going to find an agent. If we're going to
12:42
Speaker 2: go to this foreign country, right, we're going to find
12:44
Speaker 2: an agent. We cannot find an agent that we're happy with,
12:48
Speaker 2: so what are we going to do about it? And
12:50
Speaker 2: we are just the plan, but the strategic goal of
12:52
Speaker 2: going to a foreign country or moving into a new
12:55
Speaker 2: market remains the same. We just had to pivot as
12:58
Speaker 2: well as we go through. But everybody else is still
13:01
Speaker 2: battling on and going. We're going towards where we need
13:04
Speaker 2: to get to. When we talk about alignment, though, everybody
13:07
Speaker 2: is then aligned with those business goals.
13:10
Speaker 1: And I think we.
13:10
Speaker 2: Always come to me as a CMO and say, why
13:14
Speaker 2: are you doing pr in there? I would go, well,
13:17
Speaker 2: that's in line with building a brand in this market,
13:20
Speaker 2: which is in line with going to this market. I
13:22
Speaker 2: can then say this is why I'm doing what I'm doing,
13:26
Speaker 2: and hopefullyly we all see that we are building the
13:30
Speaker 2: same house, or moving in the same direction, or operating
13:34
Speaker 2: on the same big project. We just all got different
13:37
Speaker 2: jobs to do in the project, which is, you know,
13:41
Speaker 2: moving to a new market. I think this is about
13:44
Speaker 2: some form of structure. This isn't This isn't rocket science.
13:49
Speaker 2: If you're like, it's it's just about some form of structure.
13:51
Speaker 2: And I think part of this is the project management
13:56
Speaker 2: of this going forward that needs to happen because not
14:00
Speaker 2: holding people accountable or people realizing that it's okay not
14:05
Speaker 2: to do what they said they were going to do.
14:08
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. If there's no structure, they don't realize and
14:12
Speaker 2: you can't see that they're letting the team down and
14:15
Speaker 2: the business down. But it's a way to not not
14:20
Speaker 2: beat people around the head, but just for them to
14:22
Speaker 2: be aligned and go, I know what I'm trying to
14:25
Speaker 2: do here, and I know what my role is in
14:27
Speaker 2: trying to make that happen. It is the same way
14:29
Speaker 2: as you would in a sports team.
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Speaker 1: I support yes, absolutely no. I mean, as you bring
14:34
Speaker 1: that up, Michael. Number one, I've I've been the end
14:37
Speaker 1: of this where I wasn't completely clear on alignment. I said, well,
14:41
Speaker 1: they said here, here, come give me your give me
14:42
Speaker 1: your sales, your shales plan, or your I said, okay,
14:46
Speaker 1: I can. But it was abstract, Michael. It wasn't connected
14:49
Speaker 1: to the larger company vision of market sectors and clients.
14:53
Speaker 1: And so I was. I was in a group in
14:55
Speaker 1: a local area and I said, well, how I can
14:58
Speaker 1: come up with lots of different things, but I don't understand,
15:00
Speaker 1: Like you said, where does this connect to? So if
15:02
Speaker 1: I'm not clear on this, then I get pushed back, well,
15:04
Speaker 1: that's not what we're looking for, but I don't understand.
15:07
Speaker 1: So depending on where we're at in the in the hierarchy,
15:10
Speaker 1: if you will, you know, we can get stuck. And then,
15:13
Speaker 1: you know, I find is especially if you're talking lower
15:16
Speaker 1: level folks, directors, managed, managers, and then they get frustrated
15:20
Speaker 1: because they're like, I don't know how to win here,
15:23
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm not clear on that.
15:25
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely well. I use an analogy when I'm talking
15:31
Speaker 2: about businesses and I talk about alignment, and part of
15:34
Speaker 2: the analogy is that I think some people talk about
15:37
Speaker 2: getting people on the bus, right, Okay, Now, getting people
15:42
Speaker 2: on the bus to me suggests that I'm going to
15:44
Speaker 2: get people on the bus and then I'm going to
15:46
Speaker 2: take them there because I'm going to drive the bus. Okay.
15:49
Speaker 2: What I want to think about is that I like
15:51
Speaker 2: the idea that we're all joined together with a piece
15:54
Speaker 2: of elastic okay and a bundee cord. Okay, I'm going
15:59
Speaker 2: this way, okay, but people are going way the further
16:03
Speaker 2: they go that way, and the more I go this way,
16:05
Speaker 2: the tighter that elastic needs to get, and the harder
16:09
Speaker 2: it is for me to continue to push that way.
16:12
Speaker 2: So the alignment is about bringing them with me. Now,
16:15
Speaker 2: they may be going in completely the wrong direction, not
16:19
Speaker 2: because well, they could be what we call in business
16:22
Speaker 2: terrorists us they're deciding I'm not going with the floor.
16:25
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go my own way right right, But it
16:28
Speaker 2: could be that they just don't know that we're supposed
16:30
Speaker 2: to be going this way. And then the plan, if
16:33
Speaker 2: it's cascaded correctly, is to say, this is what our
16:37
Speaker 2: critical success factors are for twenty twenty six, whatever it is,
16:41
Speaker 2: and this is what we need to focus on and
16:43
Speaker 2: the things that we need to crack, if you like.
16:46
Speaker 2: In some systems they call them big rocks. Some people
16:49
Speaker 2: they call them a big, hairy, orbacious goals. But if
16:53
Speaker 2: you think of big rocks, I always think of them
16:55
Speaker 2: because they need to be smashed into the small pieces
16:57
Speaker 2: and broken up and taken on. So, you know, I
17:01
Speaker 2: love the analogies. And it's not that all the systems
17:05
Speaker 2: don't necessarily work. I just I just find that what
17:09
Speaker 2: I've tried to create is something that's very functional, very living,
17:14
Speaker 2: very alive, and very relevant to people. And it helps
17:18
Speaker 2: with that alignment because I think a high performing team
17:22
Speaker 2: is aligned. Every example I've got of a high performing
17:26
Speaker 2: team that I see, and I don't just mean sports teams,
17:28
Speaker 2: high performing teams, they all know exactly what it is
17:31
Speaker 2: that they're trying to achieve and do.
17:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, well, I know we and I were talking
17:37
Speaker 1: before we you know, earlier before this podcast. I loved
17:40
Speaker 1: your analogy of the football or soccer here in the US.
17:43
Speaker 1: But yeah, I played soccer as a young young kid.
17:47
Speaker 1: And you know, if you watch young kids by soccer,
17:50
Speaker 1: they all want to get the ball, right they all that's.
17:52
Speaker 3: The story everybody. All the kids are running to the ball.
17:57
Speaker 3: But do you watch a professional football team, socker team,
18:01
Speaker 3: They're not all running for the ball, right, Michael, I
18:03
Speaker 3: mean walk us through the I mean I love the analogy.
18:05
Speaker 3: I want you to share it because I like, you know.
18:10
Speaker 2: Okay, So as it happened. When I started to look
18:14
Speaker 2: at a business, I thought I found that there were
18:15
Speaker 2: eleven core areas that I needed to identify, and I thought, well,
18:19
Speaker 2: is there some way that this fits with the with
18:22
Speaker 2: the football analogy. We're going to say when you know,
18:26
Speaker 2: I should say soccer, even though it's proper football, the ball,
18:30
Speaker 2: you know, soccer. Yeah, yeah, you're in California, the big,
18:37
Speaker 2: the big soccer thing going on in in Los Angeles.
18:40
Speaker 2: So there we go, right, Okay, so listen, yeah we're
18:43
Speaker 2: talking about soccer. So in the soccer team we've got
18:46
Speaker 2: we've got the Glory Boys who were out from They're
18:48
Speaker 2: the they're the strikers. They're the people that are putting
18:50
Speaker 2: the ball in the back of the net and scoring
18:52
Speaker 2: the goals. And of course the Glory Boys and the
18:54
Speaker 2: fancy bands people in the sharp suits are the sales
18:57
Speaker 2: and marketing team. So I have them out from, okay,
19:00
Speaker 2: And what I say is that they're the team that
19:02
Speaker 2: are They're the people that are making their promise. They
19:05
Speaker 2: are sitting down with the customer and they're making a
19:07
Speaker 2: promise about what working with the company will be. Like
19:11
Speaker 2: the midfield, we have four in the midfield. The four
19:13
Speaker 2: across the midfield are the people that deliver that promise. Okay.
19:18
Speaker 2: And so those team members are going to be the
19:20
Speaker 2: operations team, the service team, the purchasing team, and then
19:25
Speaker 2: the new product development Those are the four people that
19:28
Speaker 2: are focused on the customer, so they deliver the promise
19:31
Speaker 2: that the sales and marketing make. And then the back four,
19:35
Speaker 2: as we call it, the defenders, the people that are
19:39
Speaker 2: the foundation at the back are going to be the HR,
19:42
Speaker 2: the finance it and systems. I make them as separate,
19:47
Speaker 2: separate things on purpose, but those are the back for
19:50
Speaker 2: they run the business. They make the business run for
19:53
Speaker 2: the business. And then leadership and management I take as
19:57
Speaker 2: being the goalkeeper. And if you've ever watched the a
20:00
Speaker 2: British soccer team, what you've got is a goalkeeper stood
20:02
Speaker 2: at the back shouting. So I make the analogy the
20:06
Speaker 2: fun analogy to say, obviously, as leadership, we don't just
20:09
Speaker 2: stand there and shout and tell everybody to do. But
20:11
Speaker 2: that's what the goalkeeper does. So that that's my that's
20:14
Speaker 2: my framework if you like. Now, in a high performing team,
20:19
Speaker 2: there are all sorts of characteristics of a high performing
20:22
Speaker 2: team about you know, continuous improvement that were led things
20:26
Speaker 2: like this, but a couple of couple of things. Everybody
20:29
Speaker 2: knows what their job is, so you don't get the
20:32
Speaker 2: guys at the front of the team running back to
20:34
Speaker 2: do the defending defending work for and you don't get
20:37
Speaker 2: the people at the back running forward to say I'm
20:39
Speaker 2: going to score the goals today. I fancy doing that.
20:41
Speaker 2: Everybody knows what their job is. The other thing is
20:44
Speaker 2: that everybody trusts everybody to do their job. That's a
20:47
Speaker 2: day of it as well. But what we've got is
20:52
Speaker 2: if you look at growth and you look at business planning,
20:55
Speaker 2: you're saying, right, I'm going to go from ten million
20:58
Speaker 2: dollars to twenty million dollars to do that in three years.
21:01
Speaker 2: That's really just keeping score. The analogy again is that
21:07
Speaker 2: I bring you back to that team. That's like the
21:09
Speaker 2: manager going into the dressing room and holding up a
21:11
Speaker 2: sign that says three nil on it. Okay, that's the
21:14
Speaker 2: result that I want. But it doesn't tell us how
21:17
Speaker 2: we're gonna get there, doesn't tell us the strategy of
21:20
Speaker 2: or we're always going to attack down the right hand
21:22
Speaker 2: side because we know that the left backs week, we're
21:25
Speaker 2: gonna the goalkeepers not great. So we're going to put
21:27
Speaker 2: really high crosses in what are the what's the strategy
21:30
Speaker 2: and what are we going to do to win and
21:34
Speaker 2: get the result that we want? And so you know
21:38
Speaker 2: that's a sports team analogy. But again you could, you could,
21:41
Speaker 2: you could, you could bring it to the armed forces,
21:44
Speaker 2: you could bring it to special forces. Again, there's always
21:47
Speaker 2: a plan and then there's the execution with honesty and integrity.
21:50
Speaker 2: That's that's crucial. But it is a team and everybody
21:53
Speaker 2: needs to be aligned in doing the same things. If
21:55
Speaker 2: the defenders don't want to play, We've seen it in
21:58
Speaker 2: also supports teams where peop people don't want to play
22:01
Speaker 2: aligned with it and they just creates a week team,
22:04
Speaker 2: doesn't it.
22:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, absolutely, And what comes to mind? You
22:08
Speaker 1: talk to me, Michael, because I've been in this journey.
22:11
Speaker 1: One of the last companies I was working with before
22:12
Speaker 1: I started to your business, we went I was a
22:15
Speaker 1: woman on small business and we went from she wanted
22:18
Speaker 1: to do to a million in revenue. She started the
22:19
Speaker 1: company in twenty twelve. I came there in twenty eighteen,
22:21
Speaker 1: which we did and then we went to two million
22:25
Speaker 1: the next year and then four million and seven million.
22:27
Speaker 1: What we had was, as you understand that business life cycle,
22:30
Speaker 1: different challenges, different problems, and so the way that you
22:33
Speaker 1: play the game, if you will, is a little different,
22:36
Speaker 1: and you might have to move positions, perhaps too, you
22:39
Speaker 1: might have been maybe doing one thing. And oftentimes when
22:42
Speaker 1: we're smaller companies, we're playing a lot of these roles
22:46
Speaker 1: positions because there aren't enough players, right, we don't have
22:48
Speaker 1: enough people to cover, you know, we don't have enough.
22:50
Speaker 1: So but you know, speak a little bit more clone.
22:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, speak.
22:54
Speaker 1: A little bit to that. That journey of a business.
22:56
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter whether you know, like I said, ten
22:58
Speaker 1: million to twenty million, it's not a one to one,
23:00
Speaker 1: like your skill like, there's different things and different problems
23:04
Speaker 1: that come up, right.
23:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I suppose it's like a team getting promoted
23:10
Speaker 2: from the second division to the first division. Suddenly we're
23:12
Speaker 2: playing a different game. We're playing, we're playing in a
23:15
Speaker 2: different marketplace, we're playing at a different level. And and
23:19
Speaker 2: and I think one of the one of the areas
23:23
Speaker 2: that I think it comes home most when we're talking
23:26
Speaker 2: about people is that you need to think strategically about
23:30
Speaker 2: your people. Because if you're going to go from ten
23:32
Speaker 2: million to twenty million, a ten million organization looks like this,
23:37
Speaker 2: a twenty million organization looks completely different. And what you've
23:41
Speaker 2: got to look at is you've got to assess your players,
23:44
Speaker 2: your team members, and you've got to go right when
23:46
Speaker 2: we're twenty million, we're going to need a head of operations.
23:49
Speaker 2: Currently that that falls under the managing director, but at
23:52
Speaker 2: some point we're going to need a head of operation.
23:56
Speaker 2: Do we need to bring that expertise in or is
23:58
Speaker 2: there somebody that could step up? And suddenly you're starting
24:02
Speaker 2: to look strategically at what your people plan it and
24:05
Speaker 2: whether there's training that needs to be done. But you're
24:08
Speaker 2: planning forward and thinking forward about about your team. It's
24:12
Speaker 2: absolutely great if you could give somebody, but if you're
24:15
Speaker 2: not careful, you could have somebody that was that was
24:18
Speaker 2: packing boxes and in three years suddenly the head of
24:21
Speaker 2: operations because the business grows so fast, and have they
24:26
Speaker 2: been given all the tools that they need to succeed
24:29
Speaker 2: in that role. It doesn't mean that they can't do it,
24:31
Speaker 2: but we need to make sure that we're invested in
24:33
Speaker 2: those and that is whoever's responsible for HR or people
24:37
Speaker 2: needs to be looking at the people and how we
24:39
Speaker 2: develop the people and so you know, the seniors learning skills,
24:42
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera a crucial But you're having a
24:47
Speaker 2: conversation about it that says, operations, where is it going
24:52
Speaker 2: in the next twelve months, two years, three years, and
24:55
Speaker 2: what are the challenge is going to be? So what
24:57
Speaker 2: do we need to do in this quarter, in next quarter?
25:00
Speaker 2: What will we do in q Q three and two four.
25:04
Speaker 2: You're consciously having the conversation rather than reactively going, well,
25:11
Speaker 2: we've promoted, we promoted Phil and he's not up to
25:15
Speaker 2: the job. And it's not Fiel's fault if he's not
25:18
Speaker 2: at the training and he was packing boxes six months
25:20
Speaker 2: ago and he's out of operations, he doesn't know, doesn't
25:24
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's the that's I've profinitely works for me.
25:31
Speaker 1: I've definitely seen that, Michael. And again that's why I
25:33
Speaker 1: love having you on the podcast or in the business
25:35
Speaker 1: rounding a podcast. By the way, you guys are listening
25:37
Speaker 1: to this, Michael, Stuart and I are connected on LinkedIn.
25:40
Speaker 1: We're going to make sure you can access to his
25:42
Speaker 1: website and all that good stuff in our show notes
25:44
Speaker 1: and if you have comments or feedback, please drop it
25:47
Speaker 1: in there wherever you find us, whether it's YouTube, LinkedIn, Spotify, whatever,
25:52
Speaker 1: the whatever the podcast platform it is, so Michael can
25:55
Speaker 1: respond to you. But to your point, Michael, I think
25:59
Speaker 1: having you on the podcast is again looking at those
26:02
Speaker 1: things and saying, look, I know you love this particular person.
26:06
Speaker 1: They've been with your company for so many years and
26:08
Speaker 1: they do really well at this position, but they're struggling here,
26:11
Speaker 1: and what is it that they need, whether it's leadership training,
26:15
Speaker 1: sales training, is it technically need some other technical skill
26:19
Speaker 1: that they don't have because there's something new in the marketplace.
26:22
Speaker 1: You know what is that you're looking at that or
26:24
Speaker 1: you know in helping them, That's what I hear you say,
26:27
Speaker 1: Michael too. We're in a very interesting market right now.
26:30
Speaker 1: We're recording this here in the end of twenty twenty five,
26:33
Speaker 1: where you know, there's been lots of ups and downs
26:35
Speaker 1: and volatility, and I know you've been exploring some new
26:37
Speaker 1: places helping entrepreneurs. Look where are their new marketplaces? Where
26:40
Speaker 1: can I go in the world to reach folks that
26:44
Speaker 1: need my product or service, and so helping unlock them
26:48
Speaker 1: and get out of their own way, right Michael of like, hey,
26:51
Speaker 1: envisioning what could be? But I think sometimes we're our
26:53
Speaker 1: own works enemies and we need somebody else to help
26:56
Speaker 1: unpack that for us and say, look, you know, where
26:59
Speaker 1: are you where are your greatest strengths? Where can you
27:01
Speaker 1: really help the business grow and thrive and get in
27:04
Speaker 1: that lane and get out of the position in which
27:07
Speaker 1: you're really not having that great of impact. But I
27:11
Speaker 1: think sometimes as good especially we're smaller, or there's you know,
27:14
Speaker 1: fiefdoms are other things that we're holding onto things and
27:16
Speaker 1: it's not really it's not helping the business, and we
27:18
Speaker 1: need somebody to come in and look at that like
27:20
Speaker 1: a doctor. I feel like Michael, you're diagnosing some things right,
27:23
Speaker 1: and you're unlocking and then you're saying, look, this is
27:25
Speaker 1: not work, this is not working. Is this really what
27:28
Speaker 1: you want? You know, getting clear on where do you
27:31
Speaker 1: want to go? Right?
27:34
Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of things that you raise there.
27:37
Speaker 2: So the first thing is that ultimately a business owner
27:41
Speaker 2: needs to make themselves redundant so that they can so
27:45
Speaker 2: that the business can operate without them all the wise
27:48
Speaker 2: they're going on holiday and coming back to a pile
27:50
Speaker 2: of stuff, and stuff doesn't happen if everything needs to
27:52
Speaker 2: go through them, So that that's part of it. The
27:55
Speaker 2: other thing that you touched on was when somebody is
28:00
Speaker 2: falling short, let's say, falling short in their role, but
28:03
Speaker 2: that may be not necessarily their fault. It could be
28:06
Speaker 2: that we've promoted them too fast, too soon, and we've
28:09
Speaker 2: not given them a support. So I think it's important
28:11
Speaker 2: that we're conscious in the way that we talk about
28:17
Speaker 2: the people and promote the people. And hence why you know,
28:22
Speaker 2: somebody thinking strategically about the people's going to be looking
28:26
Speaker 2: at the transformation of the business and not just the
28:29
Speaker 2: transactional stuff. Have we got a staff, handbookers, ever, we
28:32
Speaker 2: have an appraisal, etcetera, etcetera. You've got to be thinking
28:34
Speaker 2: about how are the people transforming and how do I
28:37
Speaker 2: transform the people? And literally I was in my SDN
28:40
Speaker 2: group today and somebody did the three minute teacher and
28:43
Speaker 2: they were talking about creating a culture of learning in
28:47
Speaker 2: a business. Not just once a month we're going to
28:49
Speaker 2: do a piece of learning. You know, how do we
28:52
Speaker 2: facilitate that in so many ways? You know, and you
28:56
Speaker 2: used to hear about Google being able empowering people to
28:58
Speaker 2: go and do their passion project, but also you know,
29:01
Speaker 2: to learn and whilst they're on the job and to
29:03
Speaker 2: better themselves because better employees are going to be better
29:06
Speaker 2: for the business. So there's a support about what do
29:09
Speaker 2: I need to what do I need to do to
29:11
Speaker 2: help you thrive in your role. I think if people
29:15
Speaker 2: are struggling in the role, you're going to work through
29:18
Speaker 2: how can I help it so you can thrive in
29:21
Speaker 2: your role. But ultimately, if this isn't the right role
29:24
Speaker 2: for them, they're probably struggling with it as much as
29:28
Speaker 2: you are. And I always think that the conversation is
29:32
Speaker 2: the conversation can often be you know what, that's a
29:35
Speaker 2: weight off. I didn't want to come to you and
29:36
Speaker 2: say that I can't do this or not up to this,
29:41
Speaker 2: or I don't know what I'm doing. But often it
29:43
Speaker 2: can be a very cathartic thing for them as much
29:45
Speaker 2: as the business, if you like. And so externally, I
29:51
Speaker 2: look and I think the benefit of putting somebody external
29:57
Speaker 2: into your businesses that they're going to ask all those
30:00
Speaker 2: questions and they're gonna challenge the things that you've got.
30:04
Speaker 2: I need to deal with that, but I've just got
30:06
Speaker 2: too much on my plate today, and they're going to
30:08
Speaker 2: bring them into focus and we're going to go we're
30:10
Speaker 2: going to deal with that. And and I know the
30:14
Speaker 2: business owner will hold somebody accountable for dealing with the
30:17
Speaker 2: issues that that hey, everything's not always about issues and
30:20
Speaker 2: Sometimes it can be positive where you say we want
30:23
Speaker 2: to do this, but you know, because I like to
30:26
Speaker 2: position it, I do a kind of session say where
30:29
Speaker 2: where I say complete this sentence. Wouldn't it be great
30:33
Speaker 2: if rather than where are the problems? Wouldn't it be great?
30:36
Speaker 2: If wouldn't be great if it didn't take us as
30:39
Speaker 2: long to pick an order from it from the warehouse?
30:42
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have the same
30:44
Speaker 2: amount staff turnover? The positive way of thinking about it,
30:47
Speaker 2: and we go, okay, staff turnover plastaghr. The people responsible
30:52
Speaker 2: for people go, there's a thing that we have. How
30:55
Speaker 2: are you going to solve that? And when are you
30:57
Speaker 2: going to come back with what you're going to imploy
31:00
Speaker 2: meant to make that not be the case anymore? How
31:03
Speaker 2: are you going to solve it? Report back to us
31:04
Speaker 2: and again you can see how that could be something.
31:07
Speaker 2: By the end of Q one, I want a plan
31:08
Speaker 2: in place. So you've got the first month you're going
31:11
Speaker 2: to start to do some employee survey, then going to
31:14
Speaker 2: come back two when you're going to report what what
31:18
Speaker 2: that comes back and what you think the plan needs
31:20
Speaker 2: to be by the end of queues, by the end
31:22
Speaker 2: of not Q two months two. By the end of
31:24
Speaker 2: month three, we've got that in place, and suddenly there's
31:27
Speaker 2: an issue that was an issue that is now solved
31:29
Speaker 2: and we have a better business that we had before
31:33
Speaker 2: and that could have an impact on profitability, couldn't it?
31:35
Speaker 1: Just oh one hundred percent? I love that you said.
31:39
Speaker 1: You know, the tithes to my philosophy at Stewardi. Your
31:41
Speaker 1: businesses leadership is stewardship. It's about serving others so that
31:45
Speaker 1: they can thrive. Like you said, so we're we're if
31:47
Speaker 1: we're looking at everybody's best interesting mine in the long term,
31:50
Speaker 1: our clients, we will win in the long long term.
31:53
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you know, so I here totally
31:56
Speaker 1: said what if we could do this? How about have
31:57
Speaker 1: we thought about that? And turning it on his head
32:00
Speaker 1: a little bit and saying, oh, yeah, we could. I
32:03
Speaker 1: didn't think about that, you know. And I love working
32:05
Speaker 1: with business owners that have that mentality and like they're, oh,
32:09
Speaker 1: I didn't, I didn't. I didn't even know I can
32:11
Speaker 1: consider that. And you're you're you're you're opening them to
32:13
Speaker 1: see possibilities. And I love what you're doing too. In
32:16
Speaker 1: the international space. Michael of creating a place for folks
32:20
Speaker 1: that I didn't even know. I didn't even think about
32:21
Speaker 1: going outside of my home country, you know, and reaching
32:25
Speaker 1: people and like how could I help? Yeah, And I think,
32:27
Speaker 1: you know, for those that are listening, it could be intimidating,
32:31
Speaker 1: but you have an advocate here, somebody that's helping you
32:33
Speaker 1: and saying, asking the questions, opening up the possibilities of
32:36
Speaker 1: what could be. And I think that's amazing because you know,
32:40
Speaker 1: you have a certain skills and abilities and insights that
32:44
Speaker 1: you're bringing to your clients and helping them. Michael, And
32:47
Speaker 1: I think that's I hope that as people are listening
32:50
Speaker 1: to the podcasts are like saying, okay, well, I didn't
32:53
Speaker 1: know where to start. I didn't even know that there
32:54
Speaker 1: was a business growth planner or person out there that
32:56
Speaker 1: would be able to help me in my business. I
32:58
Speaker 1: don't even know where where.
32:59
Speaker 2: We begin, you know.
33:02
Speaker 1: Yeah.
33:03
Speaker 2: So I think in the in the times that we've
33:06
Speaker 2: got oh sorry, sorry, go.
33:09
Speaker 1: On, Michael, and the times we got.
33:14
Speaker 2: Okay, I think I think the thing for me is
33:18
Speaker 2: that in the economic times that we've got in UK,
33:21
Speaker 2: we've got fairly static market at the moment we all
33:25
Speaker 2: know in the US we've got the tariffs and how
33:27
Speaker 2: that's affecting it. You know, we had Mark Carney talking
33:30
Speaker 2: to the UN or doing the press conference after the
33:33
Speaker 2: UN conference, where he's saying, you know that Canada needs
33:36
Speaker 2: to start looking east west rather than north south. You know, Okay,
33:40
Speaker 2: overseas markets could be no risk, they could deem risk
33:46
Speaker 2: you being only in one market in the same way
33:49
Speaker 2: as being concentrated in only one client is not great
33:52
Speaker 2: in a business concentrated in one market and going to
33:56
Speaker 2: a new market doesn't mean you have to employ twenty people.
33:59
Speaker 2: In an new market. You could find an agent, you
34:02
Speaker 2: could find a distributor. You can buy a company that's
34:05
Speaker 2: already operating in that marketplace that's got some market share already,
34:10
Speaker 2: and maybe that would be a collaboration. You could just
34:13
Speaker 2: have a joint venture with somebody that's complemented to you.
34:16
Speaker 2: So there's ways that you can do it. And I
34:19
Speaker 2: think certainly I've done some work with a mutual friend.
34:24
Speaker 2: We've got where we've put together this methodology we call
34:29
Speaker 2: Passport to Growth, and that really is how can we
34:34
Speaker 2: bring the expertise that we have. I've got clients that
34:37
Speaker 2: are selling in fifty countries David partner in this. He's
34:43
Speaker 2: taking businesses international, multiple businesses international and internew markets, creating
34:48
Speaker 2: businesses that are more more valuable as a consequence of it.
34:52
Speaker 2: What we've done is we've looked at it and gone, right, Okay,
34:55
Speaker 2: if you're an entrepreneur or you're a business owner, you're busy,
34:58
Speaker 2: you're not sat doing nothing thing right, you may not
35:01
Speaker 2: have sold internationally. So how can we take you step
35:05
Speaker 2: by step on a journey to understand whether it's an
35:09
Speaker 2: opportunity for you. So when we talk about business growth
35:12
Speaker 2: plans and we talk about well, where's growth is going
35:15
Speaker 2: to come from? That could be international markets, and we
35:18
Speaker 2: and we have a way that we kind of take
35:20
Speaker 2: people on that journey. But I could be a whole
35:22
Speaker 2: new a the podcasting.
35:24
Speaker 1: Have you come back on the podcast, Michael, and maybe
35:26
Speaker 1: we'll have David David Holman come on too. But you know,
35:29
Speaker 1: this has been a blast to have you here. I
35:31
Speaker 1: know we're wrapp getting up toward the end of our
35:33
Speaker 1: time together today, you know, but what I love that
35:36
Speaker 1: you bring this approach about how you get a business
35:39
Speaker 1: really winning with clarity and purpose. Obviously, you know we
35:42
Speaker 1: have the shared passion of getting the teams aligned and
35:45
Speaker 1: believing in that. You know, I really feel like culture
35:48
Speaker 1: and strategy are kind of two sides of us the
35:50
Speaker 1: same coin. If we get them aligned, we can build
35:52
Speaker 1: that momentum. That's why I love having on the podcast
35:54
Speaker 1: as not just a guest, but obnesotly a contributor, a
35:58
Speaker 1: collaborator with me and how things do with your business
36:01
Speaker 1: grow and reaching other companies. This is Michael and I are,
36:04
Speaker 1: you know, looking for ways that we can help more
36:06
Speaker 1: of you out there our listeners, UH, come alongside you
36:09
Speaker 1: as trusted advisors, guidance consultants. As we wrap up the podcast,
36:16
Speaker 1: Michael and we've covered a lot of different things here today,
36:19
Speaker 1: what would you say to those people that are listening,
36:21
Speaker 1: whether that's the business owner or maybe as somebody else
36:23
Speaker 1: in the company that says, I want to help this
36:25
Speaker 1: company grow and there's maybe there's a breakdown of strategy,
36:29
Speaker 1: a breakdown of the of the plan of understanding. What
36:31
Speaker 1: would you say to that person as are listening that
36:35
Speaker 1: they should take action on what you know? Wh Where
36:37
Speaker 1: would you direct them?
36:41
Speaker 2: I think I think we have talked to a whole
36:44
Speaker 2: range of things. I've talked about all the eleven areas
36:46
Speaker 2: you might not be the eleven areas. We've talked about
36:49
Speaker 2: mission vision values, we've talked about team members, we've talked
36:52
Speaker 2: about personal development. I think I think the thing for
36:55
Speaker 2: me is that the the businesses that have been successful
37:01
Speaker 2: that I've been part of where I've worked as a
37:04
Speaker 2: consultant or fresnel, they're very willing to have honest conversations
37:10
Speaker 2: and they're very willing to challenge. And I think that's
37:13
Speaker 2: a strength of SME, smaller businesses, SME, SMB wherewever you
37:19
Speaker 2: want to describe them. And I know I have a
37:21
Speaker 2: friend's that's left the army and gone to work in
37:24
Speaker 2: a big, big corporate and he is absolutely amazed at
37:28
Speaker 2: the positioning and the corporate politics that are going on.
37:33
Speaker 2: You've got a business, get good people around you and
37:36
Speaker 2: it will be amazed. If you're a business owner, you'd
37:39
Speaker 2: be amazed what your team can do if you involve
37:42
Speaker 2: them in the conversation. You don't have to have all
37:45
Speaker 2: the answers making a training thing, but say I'm interested,
37:51
Speaker 2: what do you think about? And that's an open question.
37:55
Speaker 2: Tell me what you think about, Tell me what you
37:57
Speaker 2: think about, Explain what you mean by this, Tell me
37:59
Speaker 2: more about that, and you're starting to roll over those rocks.
38:04
Speaker 2: And even if you just yourself ran a session that
38:08
Speaker 2: was right, here's a piece of paper we're going to
38:11
Speaker 2: write on here. Wouldn't it be great if and you
38:15
Speaker 2: complete those things? How would our business be better at
38:18
Speaker 2: the end of the year that it will be at
38:20
Speaker 2: the start of the year. We're not doing anything massively strategically,
38:23
Speaker 2: but at least we're opening up the conversation. And then
38:26
Speaker 2: when you need somebody to facilitate the business planning, you
38:28
Speaker 2: know where I come across.
38:30
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go, Michael, thank you so
38:33
Speaker 1: much for being here. I love that. Yeah, go have
38:35
Speaker 1: those honest conversations. And if you're not having and them,
38:38
Speaker 1: then yeah, that's definitely should be a warning bell. But
38:41
Speaker 1: go have those honest conversations. I think if they're powerful,
38:44
Speaker 1: don't be afraid of them. Lean into them. Like you're saying, Michael,
38:47
Speaker 1: have the conversations. Bring in somebody like Michael that can
38:49
Speaker 1: look and have and look at where you're at, give
38:52
Speaker 1: you real feedback. Make sure you guys connect with Michael
38:55
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, reach out to him. I'll make sure, like
38:58
Speaker 1: I said, you guys can connect with him on our
39:00
Speaker 1: show notes, thank you so much for being here, Michael,
39:03
Speaker 1: A real pleasure having you.
39:06
Speaker 2: Lovely great, always great to have a conversation. David. We'll
39:09
Speaker 2: speak again soon, i'm sure.
39:11
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody, Thanks for listening to everybody. Until next time,
39:14
Speaker 1: be well and we'll see you out here. Back on
39:16
Speaker 1: the Business Round People podcast