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What Does It Really Mean to Serve Jesus? (With Pastor CJ Johnson) · The Extra Mile Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Selfishness is a sin.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: And scripture clearly puts selfish ambition in a work of the flesh.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're struggling with selfishness, you can't be a servant.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're struggling with selfishness, you can't be like, well, you know, I'll deal with it better.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to read a self-development.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's a sin you repent up.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then God comes in and fills that space, and that's when you start walking into it.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, welcome everybody to the Extra Mile Podcast.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: My name's Steve Husky.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And sitting at the table with me is a great friend of mine and a fellow pastor of mine, Pastor CJ Johnson from the great state of Indiana.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, we're here.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Pastor CJ, good to have you at the table, man.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us just a little bit about yourself for those who don't know you.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, married to Kristen.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: 20 years this month, actually.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So celebrating 20 years of marriage, four kids, uh, Riley Cannon, Miles Presley.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm not getting to serve as a pastor, I am I'm in a gym a lot in this season.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: All my kids play sports.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I met my wife.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're we're gym rats.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Love the local church and um thrilled to be down here, bro.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are a basketball family.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Man, and being in Indiana, it's just a different culture.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's we we moved there.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we moved there five years ago.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I wasn't born and raised in this Hoosier culture.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a it's a real thing, you know.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you look at maybe the like top 10 largest high school basketball gyms in the country, yeah, eight of them are in Indiana.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I there's no doubt at least one of your kids, your daughter, Riley, at least one, probably two, maybe three or four is gonna end up collegiate sports.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe professional sports.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying, it's not even that.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not prophesying, I'm just predicting.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I see a Netflix, I see a Netflix special, the Johnsons, the basketball fan, America's basketball family in your future.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: That would be hilarious.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, our daughter has a pretty powerful testimony, so she battles epilepsy.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's been cool to see her just kind of overcome some of those things and still play at a high level.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So she's definitely got college in her scopes and some opportunities there.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: But it's cool how she's using it to share her faith.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been friends for uh about 13 years, and really, man, I just would say it here, man, a special friendship.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Respect you, respect the gift you have, respect the friendship we get to uh to cherish and walking together.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, man, if you don't know, he calls me big brother, I call him little brother.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate that because I'm you could call me dad, and that would hurt my feelings.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for not doing that.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's a stretch.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, listen, man, we're gonna have a conversation on um something we talked about this past Sunday at Faith Church.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's this very, I think it's difficult to talk about.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, easy to talk about, maybe difficult to execute, and it's this idea of servanthood.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And when you read the New Testament, you find this idea that that God introduced himself really throughout scripture with these different titles, lets us know who he is, what he's like, his nature, his character, his abilities.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And correspondingly, not always, but we find that God gives his people different names or different titles to help us understand who we are and how we interact with this God who made us and who ultimately wants to save us.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I shared some of them, and we talked about this that God is a shepherd.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Psalm 23, everybody knows the Lord is my shepherd.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And in response to that, we are his sheep.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that that is this idea that he's our protection, that he's our heavenly father, we're his children, and that's this idea of provision.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Talked about this idea that uh he's our bridegroom, we're his bride, and that's passion.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's all stuff we get.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Man, he protects us, he provides for us, he loves us and is passionate.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the one that's the most prominent in scripture is that he's the Lord.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the corresponding title that he gives us is we're his servants, which is saying God gives us a lot, but he expects a lot.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of where we started was this idea that we're called as Christ followers to be children.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're called to be sheep, but we're called to be servants.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know you listened to the message.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: What was maybe a takeaway that jumped out at you on the front end?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord thing anchors the whole deal, right?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: It it establishes an authority.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's above us.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look at what he did.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: You take, for example, maybe the Last Supper situation where he washes the feet of his disciples, which these are men walking through a kind of a desert land in flip-flops.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Those would have been some tore-up feet.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus washes their feet.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And most of us would look down upon something like that, you know, as gross or beneath us.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all, served others.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if he's above us, well, nothing he did is beneath us.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think understanding he sets the standard.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, I I do think there are certain things in the faith that you cannot fake.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I would say giving and serving are the two sharpest tools in the discipleship toolkit.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can close your eyes and fake like you're praying.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can raise your hands and act like you're worshiping.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but when it comes to serving or giving, you either did it or you didn't.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think about so many times in the New Testament where either Jesus taught or cast out devils or work miracles and wonder what would have what would it have been like to be there in that moment.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, man, I think it's hard to imagine at the same time, it's easy to imagine, like to watch Jesus perform a miracle.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: But being in the upper room, I mean, I just it's I'll be honest, it's hard to get my mind around that Jesus, the Son of God, bowed down and washed the feet, dirty, nasty feet of his disciples.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that if I was there, he would have done it to me too.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then for him to stand up and say exactly that, hey, if I'm your, if I'm your Lord and I'm your teacher and I can do this, then you can do it as well.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm commanding you to follow my example.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's so hard to imagine what he did.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's this pride in me.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a pride in all of us that I can't imagine me doing it either.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: But nonetheless, that's what Jesus calls us to.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what what do you feel like hinders people from from lowering themselves the way we're called to?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: What holds us back from being service?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think one is preferences.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think we are more moved by our preferences than God's promises.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and scripture's so clear whoever wants to find his life will lose it.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's those upside-down parables that you think serving is coming at your expense, but scripture says actually he who refreshes others is himself refreshed.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you start to realize one of the best things you can do for yourself is to do something for someone else, is to like live beyond just you at the center.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so it rightly positions us.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think preferences is a big one.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: I also think we have maybe a wrong assumption as to what God's trying to accomplish in our lives.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you think in terms of like, what is he trying to parent us towards as a good father?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people think he wants his kids to be safe and comfortable.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he wants life to be safe and, you know, you know, whatever convenient.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he's more aimed at us being brave and courageous, living lives of significance.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just recognizing that maybe we've got a little bit in our mindset that's tripping us up in terms of what God's really after.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I made a statement that uh that the conversation I think Jesus has the most often, it is being a servant.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's in a quarter of the parables, it's often found in his teaching.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And really, I think the opposite of being a servant is being arrogant.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's refusing to humble yourself.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And really, I think I don't think many people would disagree that the primary conversation before you get to salvation is pride.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Adam and Eve wanted to do it their way.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Cain and Abel wanted to do it, or Cain wanted to do it his way all the way through the nation of Israel into the disciples, into the church.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's a pride in us.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to serve, we don't want to give, we want, we want God to do for us, we don't want to do for God.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, man, you're exactly right.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: God is taking us through sanctification.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the way you know you're moving forward in sanctification is you're lowering yourself in servanthood.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're not lowering, you're not growing.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not, if you're not humbling yourself, you're not moving forward.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I love the litmus test.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's obvious.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's obvious to ourselves and it's obvious to those around us.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Again, man, we can fake a lot of things, but you cannot fake servanthood.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so Paul, he gets in and he gives us uh gives a conversation.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: There really is a theological conversation that Jesus, the place he served the most, wasn't at the Last Supper.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I say that is while he gave a clear example um that he wants us to follow, I don't think it cost Jesus a lot.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: It cost him something because he was a rabbi, he was well respected, he was, now we know, the the son of God.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: But the example he gives that Paul talks about in Philippians 2, that's what that's what we're called to.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not just to lower ourselves and wash people's feet.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the example is that Jesus humbled himself, became human, wrapped himself in humanity, lowered himself to a slave, died a criminal's death on a cross.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not just, hey, be a servant because he served, but lower yourself that much that you are willing to give your life to invest in other people.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a level of servanthood that is within all of our reach.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: We can all live that way.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: But man, it's it feels so far out of reach because Jesus, he was so high and went so low.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I made the I made the statement that he gets the highest name because he went to the lowest, he gets the highest praise because he went to the lowest place.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, man, again, I it's a difficult conversation.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think one, there's a tender grace where Jesus didn't heal and serve everybody.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's in many ways offering us this mercy and knowing we're all limited in our capacities, we're not gonna be able to like meet every need in the world.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And for some people, that becomes a discouragement.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my life's too insignificant.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Can I really make an impact?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can't serve everybody, well, what's the point of serving anybody?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there's that old statement I think early on we used to hear, you know, maybe 15, 20 years ago, where people would say, Hey, do for, you know, do for someone what someone else did for you, or you know, uh, do for one what you wish you could do for all.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's kind of those different statements.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great idea of thinking about like just bloom where you're planted and you may not be able to reach everyone, but there's someone in proximity that you can put yourself in their position, help shoulder a burden, be a blessing to them.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you'd be surprised how big of an impact you actually have.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I think the takeaway really is that while the examples Jesus gives us on some level repulsive or a price we can't pay to wash someone's feet or to die, I think God really makes it a lot more simple for us.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think He puts people in front of us that we can meet a practical need.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna cost us something.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to go out of our way.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna be easy.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that we can serve and we can make a difference every day if we're just willing to open our eyes and willing to put ourselves aside and think about others more highly than we do ourselves.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So serving is difficult because of our pride, but I think God's really made it easy because he puts us in the path of other people that we can serve based on our gift set.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: We may not be have a lot of wealth, but we have enough.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have enough talent, resources, treasure.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I look at where I am and preaching this message.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I say it's easy to preach this.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Man, Monday comes and you got to live it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's parts of me that think, gosh, I'm failing miserably at serving people.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's times I think, man, Lord, you're you're helping me.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like I made a difference.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Having a conversation, praying with that person, practically meeting a need.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Service is easier than we think if we're willing to do it God's way.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we're not always responsible for the outcomes.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're we're responsible for our act of obedience.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you think of the parable of scattering the seed, you know, some of it's landing on good soil, some of it's rocky soil among the thorns.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't determine the soil.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: We don't get to ultimately dictate the the fruit it bears.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're just supposed to scatter seed like we didn't purchase it, you know.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so doing your part and recognizing like God, God does the rest, you know, and it's not really on us.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes people um they they don't engage in acts of service if they don't feel like they have a confidence in the outcome.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, maybe that's not yours to worry about.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when uh again, Paul has this conversation, he's he makes this statement, he says, Hey, let this mind be in you, which is also in Christ.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the mind is is the center, it's our it's a part of our heart, our mind, will, and emotions.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the reason the apostle Paul says, Hey, listen, if you're gonna serve, it starts in the heart.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't start in the outside, it doesn't start in the execution, it starts in the humiliation of our own heart, humbling ourselves, because you can fake your way into being a servant and really not honor God.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm not saying it doesn't count if you don't do the deed, but God wants your heart first because when he has your heart, service starts to flow.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I I made this statement that selfishness asks, what can I get?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Religion says, What do I owe?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Worship says, What does God deserve?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I agree with the statement you made on the front end, but I think you can even, it's hard because we don't want to serve, but you can fake service.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes from a from a pure place, that's where it starts to become a rhythm of life.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's where it starts to become.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a I'm a disciple.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna get into a minute, but I'll just say it here.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of churches filled with a lot of volunteers and few people who really serve.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're willing to sign in on Planning Center and check the box and sell be there, and they're willing to show up and give a slice of time on Sunday morning.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not to devalue anybody's sacrifice because time is precious, people are busy.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's a big gap between being a volunteer to church and being a servant of Jesus, who's our Lord.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on that gap?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it is I can see that where sometimes we're we're just going through the motions, you know.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: We talked with the staff today, just about the difference about being active in the church and active in the gospel.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and truly living on mission, anchored to kingdom work.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I I do believe that it's easy to show up in a space and function as a Christian in a church context.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but if it doesn't translate, uh, yeah, you you got to start to self-evaluate and ask the questions, hey, why is this not truly integrating itself uh in and through my life?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: But no, like if you are a follower of Christ, there's there's no sidestep in it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: His desire for your life is to serve, you know, and that's where I liked how you pointed out in the message Paul would refer to himself as Dulos, like a bond servant, you know, and it was an identity statement.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And who you are determines what you do.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have your identity locked in, well, then your activity is gonna be at times inconsistent.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I made the statement that uh being a servant is it's not a task, it's a title, it's not something you do.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's easy for a lot of us to live, again, you go back to even money, which is a so such a hard conversation.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when you finally, me personally, I remember when I first started going to church, you know, I was working at a grocery store, maybe made 200 bucks every, every week, 180 bucks.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd go to church and put$5 in the in the plate, and that felt like, you know, I was really doing something.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when I started tithing and started putting$23 in, that felt like a lot of money, but I felt like, man, I've done it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: But coming back to the place, like it's really all God's.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever He calls me to give, that's what I need to give.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I would compare that to this idea of serving.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Serving takes time and energy.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of us, we volunteer.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think we do help, but there's these limits, these boundaries we put, like, okay, God, I'll give you the tithe, but that 90% is still mine.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's people who say, God, I'll give you some resource.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll volunteer on a team, I'll show up and I'll even support a nonprofit, but like the rest, the rest of this is mine.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think even moving past the volunteer mentality to a servant is really coming to this place.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: God, it's all yours, which means if I have to miss the event, if I can't show up to the ball field, if I sacrifice a gathering that I plant, whatever it is, God, it's all yours.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you call me to serve, I'm gonna stop my agenda and I'm gonna execute your agenda.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the gap that's really keeping, especially the American church from being the church of the Lord Jesus Christ is we still have this part of us.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have it, you have it, that this is still mine.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And man, we just gotta get to this place where we surrender at all.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's I surrender, don't make me saying I surrender.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta surrender at all.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So and but the thing is, is the moment it's all about you, it's gonna start to suffocate your joy.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I I loved how you kept emphasising, emphasizing that my pleasure idea.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and most people view serving as a duty, not a delight.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, this is I get to be a part of this, you know, and God doesn't need my help, but for whatever reason, he's so generous to extend an invitation for me to be a part of his story.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you look at all throughout the gospels, the number of times where Jesus could have done the miracle on his own.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: He could have fed the 5,000 on his own, but instead he lets the food multiply in their hands while they're passing it out.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, he calls Lazarus to come forth, but he includes them on hey, you roll away the stone, you take off the grave clothes, like you get to be a part of it.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the more you witness, the more you serve and get on mission for God, well, the more you witness.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you a front row seat to see what God does next when you trust him.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love those examples you gave again, just imagining ourselves in those moments.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now we look back and we're like, could you imagine, could you imagine moving the stone for Lazarus?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like we celebrate that today.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Could you imagine passing out the loaves and the fish?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that would have been so amazing.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: But hey, if we called an uh, hey, we need we need uh 12 volunteers this Sunday, if we're gonna hand out some bread and people are like, I'm busy.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, we miss the opportunities to be part of a miracle because of small thinking in the moment.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And to understand how God can use what we're willing to give him.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like he started the miracle of feeding the 5,000 with a little kid's some kids like stole his lunch of them.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: But this kid's like, hey, I'll give you what I have.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus executed one of the most common miracles that's that's in all four of the gospels because one kid gave up his lunch.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it's it's this idea that for me, again, serving feels so hard.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it feels like it's so far away from what I'm doing.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm not doing it enough.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it with selfish motives.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: But God calls us, man, when the motive is right.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: What matters most is our motive and we get our motive right.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Man, God can use us in so many ways that we don't recognize in the moment, but man, we're being servants, and God's gonna use that to spread the gospel and impact people's lives.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and you're you are going to serve an agenda.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like regardless of what it is.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's no such thing as just going through life in neutral.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, you serve the purposes of someone or something, right?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just learning to be a good steward of your time, talent, you know, resources, whatever, just to say, I'm I'm leveraging things, things for the things that come with the highest return in my life, the things that lead to uh the most spiritual momentum, the things that produce a greater peace, a greater confidence, foster a stronger connection in my relationship with God, what produces joy and fulfillment.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm investing into those things.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And most people are frustrated with the return they're getting on life, but because they're making poor investments.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh the writer Hebrews makes this statement um that Jesus, for the joy set before him, yeah, he endured the curse, which goes back to Philippians 2, man.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: He lowered himself, lowered himself into humanity, into a servant, into a criminal on the cross.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And uh obviously he did he did that with joy because his focus wasn't on the moment of suffering, it was on the long term of salvation.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that man, at the end of the day, he was going to redeem humanity.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I said this a lot Sunday, man, serving is not sexy.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: To lower yourself and wash feet, to hang on a cross, to serve your neighbor, whatever it is, however you serve.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't feel good always in the moment, but man, if you keep your eye on the prize, long term, what is our prize?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: We were his prize, he's our prize, man.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: We do this because we're honoring the name of Jesus and the way we serve.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I man, I just would uh maybe have this last part of this conversation.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're a pastor, I'm a pastor.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we know this the church, the local church can't function unless the body of Christ functions.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people need to find their place, they need to recognize their gifts, and then they need to lower themselves to the place of stepping aside from their agenda and executing God's agenda, which is serving.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have serve teams, we have, you know, we need volunteers, and I use this comparison, it wasn't mine, I'm not the originator, but I know you appreciate the same conversation is that there's a lot of people who are watching this.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where you show up in a church and you sit down, someone held a door for you, someone helped you find a parking spot, someone held a door for you, someone made you a cup of coffee at the cafe, someone ushered you to a seat, someone performed worship for you, someone preached a message to you and then held the door as you went out.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we're glad you're a church.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm genuinely glad anytime someone shows up, but at some point you got to decide I'm gonna stop being a consumer and I'm gonna start being a contributor.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I use two illustrations: one of a restaurant, and we have a lot of restaurant Christians who show up and man, everything's about them getting served, and they never serve.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think God's calling us to flip that on its head.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the other illustration I used was a hotel or a home.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can we go to a hotel and someone's set the path, someone's prepared the meal, someone's made our bed, but when it's home, It's my responsibility.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know, I I don't know.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do you see that playing out in ministry, either in the past or right now?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you see a do you see people leaning into serving, making it more of a home and less hotel, or do you feel like the church is leaning away from that?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Where what's the trend?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think COVID disrupted some things, especially on the rhythm side of things.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I continue to bump into studies that just show that, you know, in terms of volunteer engagement in churches post-COVID, it's not really recouped the full steam that it had.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think COVID introduced new rhythms.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely moved a lot of people towards uh online engagement.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think churches are starting to really flush out where are we actually at in terms of a culture for service.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think one thing you have to pay attention to is uh the engagement of men is significantly less in most churches than the engagement of women.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you go on down the list, you even see that in the next generation.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's some things there when it comes to asking clarifying questions and making honest assessments like, hey, like how are we actually doing?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And probably one of the most clarifying questions you can ask is what kind of church would we have if everybody patterned themselves after you?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: If they patterned their service after you, if they patterned their worship after you, if they patterned their giving after you.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be some people in faith who hear that and they're gonna be like, man, if everybody patterned themselves after us, we'd be 19 campuses in like five years.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then there's another person sitting right next to them thinking, man, if everyone patterned themselves after me, faith church wouldn't exist.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so sometimes it's just assessing, hey, where are we at?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because as a church, we can't reach our full potential until we all reach our full potential.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you got to get skin in the game.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think God is always calling us back.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, calling us back the book of Revelation, He's calling us back to his his, you know, our first love, which is should be Him.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think COVID allowed us to have a freedom of time, a freedom of resources.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we got out of the building, which again, this we're gonna come back to this.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: The church is much bigger than the building.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we started, man, investing in other things.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard for us now to humble ourselves and say, hey, I need to make an investment back in the kingdom, which is being a servant.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm predicting in the near future we're gonna see a significant shift of discipleship, of depth, of engagement and spirituality.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about this at lunch.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna see discipleship and charismatic, a balance of the word and the spirit come back to the church that maybe in a way we've never seen in America.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm excited for what's coming, but I don't think as pastors, I think we need to step up and be bold and call people to obedience, to call people to repentance.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think the hardest statement that I said Sunday, because it doesn't feel good, is that um that's that selfishness is a sin.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: And scripture clearly puts selfish ambition in a work of the flesh.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're struggling with selfishness, you can't be a servant.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're struggling with selfishness, you can't be like, well, you know, I'm I'll I'll deal with it better.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna read a self-help book.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's a sin you repent of, and then God comes in and fills that space, and that's when you start walking in servanthood.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, man, just uh just a closing thought, you know.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to maybe hear your your kind of big picture, how you feel like this shifts you as a person or as a pastor, and uh how it maybe shifts us as a church.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I would start by saying this um obviously the the church is bigger than a building, but I think serving begins in the building.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I I would encourage people to get involved in nonprofits.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd encourage you to serve your family.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, part of serving is me serving my wife, is not always allowing her, you know, she's the primary, she's the primary cook in our house.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's the primary one who washes clothes.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: But how how can I serve my wife?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: How can I serve my kids?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if we'll look around, God puts you in your workplace, not for you to get a paycheck, but for you to be a servant.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so many opportunities for us to serve.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, again, it it begins in the church because that's where those spiritual conversations are happening.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we get the motive right.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: The reason I'm serving is I'm honoring the one who's created and called me.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just want to challenge those who are listening to this to find a place you can serve.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's right in front of you if you open your eyes.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have a spot, hook up, connect, volunteer, and move into the role of a servant at the local church.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um God will bless that.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: God will use it in a way that you cannot begin to comprehend, and God will change your heart where you'll desire to be a servant more, to humble yourself and wash feet and crucify yourself on the cross that Jesus has called us to carry.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I I think it's so good.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is, I don't know, maybe an expectation when it comes to service that it's only all outreach focused.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus says, hey, they will know that you are my disciples by how you love one another.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's our witness that becomes our witness.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so to your point of like, hey, serving the house first, there is a progression as to how these things work their way out in and through your life.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And in the same way, no one wants to go to a dentist with crooked teeth or a chiropractor who can't stand up straight.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're not trying to look to someone as a model for how to approach marriage or parenting or life or careers or any of those things if their life is disruptive and dysfunctional.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, prioritizing, you know, those primary relationships.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Why serve the bride of Christ?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Why be faithful in God's house?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's this house that He desires to be a city on a hill and a light for the world around to say, Hey, now that's different.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Look how they treat one another, look how they go the extra mile.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like they edify one another's lives.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And as a result of it, all of their lives are being improved and redeemed.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, you you've got to prioritize the house.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are on the other side of uh Jesus being a servant.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're our the way we benefit is we're children of God.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: His sacrifice and his servant has made us children of the most high God.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I just would encourage anybody listening to this to not underestimate how your service can impact someone else's salvation or spiritual journey.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you to get there, we just have to look beyond ourselves.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: But um I just would challenge, man, everybody hearing this, that what would your church be like?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned this earlier.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: If everybody served on the level he's called us to, if we sacrifice the way he's called us to, man, that's the kind of church that could change the city and change the world.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, man, again, thanks for leaning in and listening today.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just want to encourage you, man, where you are, wherever you're at, whether it's home, whether it's at work, in your subdivision, in your community, in your church, move even past being a volunteer.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, lower yourself to be a servant.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's what God's called us to.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that it's that very uh attitude, that same mind that God wants in us that He carried to the cross that's going to change this world.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for joining us, Pastor CJ, man.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So good to have you with us on the podcast.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right, man.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Catch you again.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: God bless you guys.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great week.