Latest / VREF | The Truth About the Aviation Market / The 9 Lives of Syberjet: The $14 Million Mockup and the Jet Nobody Can Price | EP 65
Transcript
- Ep 65 pt 1 1080p: The biggest business aviation convention of the year wrapped up in Las Vegas last week. Every manufacturer on Earth was there. Billions of dollars of airplanes on static display, hundreds of press releases, and if you ask anybody who walked that floor what they remember, you get one answer. And it isn't an airplane, it's a mock up. A full scale, non flying mock-up of a jet that doesn't exist yet, unveiled at a private party at an airport across town the night before the show opened by a CEO who Who three years ago was standing in a federal courtroom being sentenced for fraud. And here is the detail that lit up every form, every group chat, and every comment section I follow. The mock-up had struts under the wings, supports, braces, a $14 million airplane, that in the only physical form anybody has seen it, cannot hold up its own wings. So, congratulations to the industry. The highlight of the show is a model airplane with training wheels and a reservation form. And guys, I laughed too. Then I stopped laughing because the same company owns almost every example of a real certified flying jet. And I'm going to tell you what that jet is worth today, which is a number nobody else will say out loud. This week, the whole 40-year story of the SJ30 start to finish, because it has died more times than you can count on one hand. And why the new owner rushed a mock-up to market six years before delivery, what the internet actually thinks. Both camps, no usernames, what the airplanes they already built are actually worth today, and why nobody will tell you. And the one question that matters if you're thinking about writing a check to these guys, is there a hole in the market here, or has that whole state open for 30 years for a reason? Welcome back to the truth about the aviation market. I'm Jason Zilberbrand. I'm president of VREF, the aircraft valuation reference for the banks, the insurance companies, and the courts that run on it. We publish the values. We do about 3,000 appraisals a year. And I'm an accredited senior appraiser with the American Society of Appraisers. And before that I was a dealer. I carry 28 airplanes on a floor plan all the way through 2008. So I personally watch more than one company promise a billion dollars and deliver a bankruptcy filing. Two ground rules. I don't name competing valuation sources on this show, and I won't start today. And I'm not going to litigate anybody's politics. The CEO's legal history is a matter of public record, and it is the reason this story is so polarizing. So I'll give it to you once and I'll give it to you straight, and then I'm gonna move on. I care about the airplane, I care about the money, and I care about the odds of this thing being successful. So let's start with last week and then let's go back to nineteen eighty four. Monday, October nineteenth. The convention doesn't open until Tuesday. But Cyperjet rents out space at Henderson Executive Airport, calls it CyberJet World, flies in customers, operators, and press from around the world, and pulls the sheet off a full-scale SJ-36 mock-up with working avionics panels next to it. By the end of the week, the company announces letters of intent from more than 50 airplanes, from charter operators, flight departments, and private owners. Some of them even reserved multiple aircraft. The CEO tells the room it was the first time customers could see the airplane they had committed to buy. Day one, he says. Let me ask the questions the trade press was too polite to ask on the record because every one of them was being asked out loud on the floor. Question one. Guys, why does a mock-up need struts? A mock-up is a sales tool. You build it to make people believe. If the wings on your sales tool need braces to stay level, Either it was built in a hurry or it was built cheaply, or both, and either answer tells you something about where this company is. Nobody from the company explained it. I'd love to hear the explanation. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that this thing was finished the week before the show, and if that's true, then the date mattered more than the product. And I want you to hold on to that thought. Question two. Why now? The investment group bought this company at the end of 2024. The SJ36 was announced on October 1st, 2025, and then about 10 months later. The mock-up came one year after that. First flight in 27, certification in 2032. Deliveries are 2032. So the company has unveiled, priced, and taken reservations on an airplane that will not deliver for six years from today, from a program whose every previous date slipped by a factor of two. Nobody rushes a mock-up to a convention. six years ahead of delivery because the engineering demanded it. You do it because something else demanded it. And here is what demanded it. A national newspaper reported this spring from investor documents that the company is seeking to raise $1 billion at a claimed valuation of $4 billion. Guys, $4 billion for a company that has not built an airplane under its current ownership against a certified design that sold in bankruptcy 15 years ago for six million bucks. The CEO declined to comment on the documents. He has talked to investors in the Gulf. When you're raising a billion dollars for an airplane company, the thing you need most is not a wind tunnel, it's a crowd, a stack of letters of intent and a headline. 50 plus LOIs in a week is not a backlog, but it is a pitch deck. The early owner program is capped at 250 members, with the price stepping up after that. Which is a mechanism for turning interest into deposits and deposits into working capital. One of the trade outlets put it perfectly in a headline before the show. The mock-up arrived before the incentive terms did. Customers were shown the airplane before they were shown what happens to their money if the airplane is late, or worse, it never shows up at all. Now I want to be fair. Every manufacturer in history has sold airplanes off a mock-up. Every single one. Cessna did it, Embraer did it, Honda did it for years. And guys, a mock up is not a crime. But when a company has never built an airplane under its current ownership, when its last owner spent 13 years failing to certify an aviant exchange, and when the thing on the stand can hold up its own wings, the question is not whether it's a sales tool. The question is what is he selling? And who is he selling it to? And I think it was selling to the people who weren't in the room. They were the investors. That's question three. And it's the one I actually can't answer. Who is the customer here? The pilot who wants the airplane or the fund that wants the story? Plant the seed. Now let's go back and see why the story has been so hard to finish. If you have flown a metro or a Merlin, you have flown an Ed Swaringen design. Swearingen numbered his airplanes. The SX300 kit plane was 29. His 30th and last was a light twin jet he announced in October of nineteen eighty six. It was called the SA30 fanjet. Two Williams FJ 44s. Target price $2 million. In 1988, Gulfstream signed on to build and sell it as a Gulfstream Gulf Jet. In September 1989, Gulfstream walked. That was death number one. The airplane hadn't even flown yet. Then the Joffe Group in San Antonio stepped in. Which is why there is a J in the name. And they were gone in about a year, and that's death too. The prototype flew february thirteenth, nineteen ninety one, went to Paris, and then they ran out of money. Swear engine needed roughly two hundred million dollars to get the production and he didn't have it. So development stopped. And that's death number three. So you got three deaths, one flying prototype, and it all happened before the end of nineteen ninety one. The rescue came from F-16 sale. Taiwan was buying fighters. Big defense deals come with offset agreements, and Lockheed brokered a gent jet a joint venture between Swearingen and a Taiwanese investor to satisfy part of the offset. It was a West Virginia senator. He attached a factory in Martinsburg. In 1995, the company became Sino Swearingen. Taiwanese officials took a board majority. The Lockheed engineers were reportedly gone in 60 days. And the new board wanted a bigger plane. So the fuselage grew 4 feet 4 inches, the wing 6 feet, and the SJ 30-2 flew in November 1996. By 2000, when the first conforming prototype rolled out, the company had spent about $250 million, had 400 employees, 164 orders, a $5 million price tag, and promised first deliveries. In the fourth quarter of two thousand one. In two thousand one, the Spanish supplier building wings and fuselages had its contract terminated, so that was Death 4, and it was quiet. Then Death V was not so quiet. On april twenty sixth, two thousand three, the first conforming SJ thirty- two was on a flutter certification flight near Loma Alta, Texas. It departed controlled flight at High Moc. It rolled, it hit the ground essentially intact. The test pilot was a man named Carol Beeler and he was killed. When people on the internet make jokes about this program, they forget a man died proving it. And the high-speed handling work that followed is part of why this airplane is as good as it is at Mach.83. That was bought with a life. So the FA certified the SJ 30-2 on October 27, 2005, 19 years after the announcement, first delivery. November 2006, by the time the bankruptcy filing hit in 2010, the program had consumed more than $700 million. In September 2007, a London dealer and a California private equity firm announced they were buying control. 276 active orders, 159 of them through the dealer, 350 employees, full production in 12 to 18 months. Private equity firm withdrew in 2008 and the deal collapsed. So that's death six. So you have six deaths and four customer airplanes delivered. Remember, 276. It is the only hard evidence anybody has ever produced that there is real demand for this airplane at a $7 million price tag. So let's fast forward now. September 17th, 2008, two days after the Lehman Brothers crash, a Dubai group bought 80% of And the press release said the words every aviation reporter learns to flinch at, up to $1 billion in funding. A second model, they were going to build 100 airplanes a year. The company became of S Aerospace. The airplane was $7.25 million. Then 2008 did to Dubai money, what it did to everybody else's money. Production stopped in November 2009. On October 26, 2010, of S filed Chapter 11 in Delaware, with more than two. Orders backed by non-refundable deposits couldn't fill. So now we have death seven. The billion dollars never came. The second model, it never existed. 100 a year became zero. Now, the number I want you to sit with is the following. In April of 2011, a bankruptcy judge sold the entire program, the type certificate, the tooling, the airplanes. Everything to an affiliate of Metalcraft Technologies of Cedar City, Utah, the shop that made the aft fuselage, and about 70% of the sheet metal. Three and a half million in cash, about two and a half million in assumed debt, six million dollars for a program that had eaten seven hundred million. That isn't a discount. That is the market telling you what it thought the odds were of you being successful. Company was renamed Cyberjet in June of 2011. The tooling moved to Utah. Depending on how you count prototypes and test articles, between eight and ten airframes were ever built. There was one SJ 30 1 prototype. There were four SJ 30 2s, four production airplanes delivered to customers, two ground test articles. The last customer airplane went out in 2009 at $8.3 million. And then nothing. really, nothing. For 13 years. Not for a lack of announcements. In 2013, Honeywell was picked for new avionics, branded Cybervision. Utah approved close to $45 million in incentives. In May of 2014, groundbreaking in Cedar City, the SJ30i deliveries promised again now for 2015, with a famous actor who owned one of the four as the relaunch customer. And then in August of 2017, the general manager says first flight by the end of the year, and then deliveries now pushed to 2019. 24 airplanes a year by 2020. And I'm quoting the avionics program as being self-funded from the parent company's machining profits, a jet certification funded by a sheet metal shop. The SJ 30i did fly on October 9, 2019, two years late, in a converted SJ 30-2. 18 month certification program, deliveries in 2021, and then 2024. So you got nothing. It was never certified, and that's Death Eight, this one of exhaustion. In 2021, the parent sold Metalcraft, the part of the business with actual revenue, and it decided to keep Cyberjet, the industry forecasting house that tracks every jet program on Earth, formally stopped forecasting this one, pending, and in their words. Further information. By 2023, exactly one SJ 30 was flying in private hands. It belonged to a California construction company owner who bought serial number eight from the factory in twenty twenty one with about thirteen hundred and fifty hours on it, and he flew it around Africa. Everything else sat at the factory or in a shop or served as a test article. The company owned all but one of the aircraft. It wasn't a fleet, a museum with a type certificate, eight deaths, Forty years, four deliveries, seven hundred million plus forty-five million dollars of Utah money, and a twenty-one year old type certificate. That is what the new owners bought at the end of 2024. Let's take a quick break. If you own, finance, or insure an aircraft and you want to know what it's actually worth, not what somebody's asking for the one next to it, that is what VREf does. We publish the values, we do the appraisals. And when the ideal goes sideways, we are the ones who show up in court. Go to VREF.com. And if you're getting something out of the show, the susp the subscribe button is free, and it is the only thing I will ever ask you for. In late 2024, an investment group bought Cyberjet. In October 2025, the man leading it, Trevor Milton, became CEO. Here is his history once. He founded Nicola, the hydrogen truck company. In Utah in 2015, in September of 2020, a short seller report accused the company of misrepresenting its technology. The SEC and the Justice Department opened investigations and he stepped down. By October of 2022, a federal jury convicted him on one count of securities fraud, two counts of wire fraud for misleading investors, and by December of 2023, he had done four years in prison and a million-dollar fine. A judge later ruled he owed Nicola about $168 million in restitution. By March 2025, a full presidential pardon had taken place. Nicola itself had filed for bankruptcy one month earlier. In September of 2025, the SEC dropped its civil case. Public records show he and his wife gave more than $3 million to the 2024 presidential campaign. Those are the facts. I am not telling you what to think about them. I am telling you so you understand why every cyberjet thread on the internet becomes something else within six comments. So, the plan. October 1st, 2025. The SJ36, a four foot stretch of the SJ30-2 with nine seats, a single pilot, bigger Williams engines, fly by wire, a clean sheet in-house avionics suite with six 4K touchscreens, plus an AI assistant called Cyberpilot. That is all supposed to eventually be certified as an autonomous pilot and an emissions-free APU to boot. More than 3,000 miles. Mach.88, 49,000 feet, sea level cabin to 41, first flight by 2027, certification and deliveries by 2032. All for 14 million bucks for the first 250 reservations. And then after that, the price goes to 16. Alongside it the SJ 34 which is the old SJ 30 I plan with a new name and more thrust and seven seats, Mach. eight three, twenty five hundred nautical miles, and ep 65 pt 2 1080p: and deliveries by 2029. The 10 million now is 12. There's dozens of Formula Nicholas staff at at work here, a billion dollar raise, a cabin designed by a firm run by the CEO's wife, and an August record flight. They did Jacksonville to San Diego nonstop in the SJ 30-2 in four hours and seven minutes at 555 miles an hour, 48% faster than the standing light jet record. Pending certification by the record bodies, of course. To his credit, he said the quiet part himself. We all have questions. The likelihood of failure is higher than the likelihood of success. The skepticism is his word, and it's warranted, ten times harder than Nicola. I have never heard a manufacturer CEO say any of that from a stage, and I've been to a lot of stages. So, I spent the week after the show reading everything. All the spotter pages on Facebook, the pilot subreddits, the general tech forums where the CEO is a household name for the wrong reasons, and the replies to the company's own posts. And I'm not going to read usernames and I'm going to leave out the ugly ones because there are plenty. What I am going to do is read you what people actually wrote, because it sorts into three piles, and the piles are not the ones you expect. So let's start with the biggest single thread I found, an aviation spotter page on Facebook. Two hundred likes, seventy-three comments, sorted by most relevant. Here is the top comment, twenty-three likes, and here's the quote: I want two pilots at forty nine thousand feet. That's it. That's the top comment. Not the CEO, not the fraud, not the mock-up. The second most popular with eleven likes is how is the pilot supposed to use the restroom if single pilots for 3,000 miles have tactical dehydration? And a third right behind sea level cabin to 410. I'll believe it when I see it. That's pile went. Then is pilots. And pilots are not arguing about Trevor Milton. They are arguing about the airplane, single pilot at 49,000 feet, six hours in the seat when nobody dispel you. Whether a 12 PSI cabin is even real. And here is the thing. The 12 PSI cabin is real. It was demonstrated in flight in 2004 and it was certified in 2005. And the single pilot is how the SJ30-2 has been certified for 21 years. So the loudest pilot objections on the internet are the features that already exist and are already proven. That tells you how little this airplane is known, even inside aviation, after 40 years. The company has a marketing problem before it has an engineering one. Pile two are the believers. And there is exactly one in that whole thread who sounds like he has been inside the airplane. All caps as these things go. Quote, there are always doubters. The SJ 30 dash two really did what they say I've flown in it many times. Forty one thousand feet sea level cabin, forty nine thousand feet eighteen hundred foot cabin. Money and expertise will make it all happen. There were seven replies underneath his, which I will not read, and a quieter one no one likes, wish I could get one. That is the believer camp in full. One guy who has flown in it, and one guy who wants to. On the other side of the same thread is pure comedy. Sounds too good to be true, probably is. 2027, question mark, question marked, followed by a laughing face. And the one that I think is the actual market speaking from somebody who sounds like a buyer, the apparent situation involved with the owner will always be in the background in the minds of any serious buyer. That does not bode well at all. End quote. Then there's Reddit, and Reddit is pile three, and pile three is not about the airplane at all. When the national newspaper story about the comeback ran this spring, the general technology subreddit, 4 million weekly visitors, put it at the top of the page. Top comment. So, the whole truck thing was a bust, and now he's pivoting to a much more expensive and infinitely more complex type of vehicle that takes far longer to certified. Aviation is mostly a graveyard of failed companies. End quote. The reply underneath that got the most attention, did the math on the investor documents. Raising a billion against a four billion valuation, a valuation quote, not from an actual auditor. It's just the value he claims his company is worth, end quote. For a company with quote, nothing other than some concept art of what the outside of the jet might look like. End quote. Somebody else said, quote, I have a jet design with these capabilities, and I'm only seeking 500 million in investments, end quote. And this one, which is the shortest summary of the whole comeback I have read anywhere. Quote, pardoned equals guilty plus forgiveness, end quote. To be fair to the other side, five months later, someone came back to the same thread and wrote, quote, they have somewhat of a proven track record, unlike his other scam. May or may not be a scam. End quote. That is the kindest thing anybody wrote on Reddit. And then there is this somebody created a subreddit called R slash Cyberjet. On August 31st of this year, its description written by whoever made it, a community to discuss Trevor Milton's newest scam. 200 weekly visitors. The top question in the top thread is the only question that matters, and it isn't about the CEO. How do they stay solvent until 2032 when the jet is supposed to be ready? Nobody in the thread had an answer. One person suggested the CEO could sell a house. So we've got three piles. Pilots arguing about single pilot and cabin altitude. Which are solved problems, the tech crowd arguing about the man, which is not going to be solved, and the one lonely thread asking how the company funds six years of burn before it's going to deliver anything, which is the question the trade press didn't ask, and the one I'd want answered before I signed the letter of intent. One more thing that I noticed, and it's a tell, nobody in any of these threads, believer, skeptic, what have you, asked what the existing airplanes are worth. See, the believers assume the values go up because the factory is back in business. The skeptics assume that they are zero because the factory is a joke. The believers are wrong, the skeptics are closer than they know. And that is my segment, so let's do it. Here is the price history of this airplane, as the manufacturer told it. Two million dollars in eighty nineteen eighty six, five million in two thousand, seven and a quarter in seven, and again in twenty thirteen when the relaunch was announced. That Last customer delivery went out the door in 09 at 8.3. The SJ30i that never certified was priced at 8.5. The SJ 30 four that replaces it is 10 stepping up to 12. The SJ 30 sizes is 14 stepping up to 16. 40 years, one certified airframe, and the number has only ever gone one way, and that is up because a price on a brochure is free. Now the number that isn't free. And I'm going to tell you something about it that I have never said about a certified business yet on the show. There isn't one. Nobody tracks the SJ30. We don't carry a trading value on it. And neither does anyone else who's honest, because a value is a prediction of what a willing buyer pays a willing seller, and this airplane has no willing buyers. The foreign private hands don't trade. The handful the factory owns aren't for sale to anyone who isn't the factory. There has not been an arm's length sale between two strangers. That I can point to in many, many, many years. And the one owner who did buy one recently bought it from the factory itself after his deal and the other two orphan jets fell through. Guys, that is not a market. That is a hobby with a type certificate. People hear that and assume the airplane is worthless, and I don't mean that at all. And the distinction matters if you own one or you lend against one. There are three different numbers hiding inside the word value, and on a normal airplane, they sit close together. On this one, they sit miles apart. The first is value in use. To the man flying serial number eight around Africa, the airplane is worth exactly what it does for him. A sea level cabin at 41,000 and 2,500 nautical miles of range, and no spreadsheet's gonna change that. The second is value in exchange, which is what a stranger will pay him. And on an SJ30, that number is whatever one buyer in the world happens to offer on the day you need to sell. Because there is no second bidder to keep him honest. In practice, that means a steep discount to any brochure number you have ever heard, if a buyer appears at all, which probably wouldn't happen. And then the third is, more than likely, which is liquidation value, which is what parts on engines are worth. And on an airplane where the factory is the only parts customer that numbers whatever the factory decides it is. So why is it that nobody wants one of these? Not because it's a bad airplane, because of what you can't get. You can't get apart without calling the one company that has them. You can't get a loan because a bank finance's collateral can't resell, and there is no one to resell it to. You can't get whole coverage price sanely because an insurer prices on the cost of repair, and the cost to repair an airplane with 10 examples is whatever the sole source says it is. And you can't get out because the exit is the same one door you came in through. Sea level cabin doesn't fix any of that, guys. A second owner who sold one to a stranger at a profit would fix all of it, and there's never been one deal. So when the company tells you the SJ34 is the SJ30-2 upgraded, understand what they are also telling you. They are telling you the airplane that already exists, that is already certified, that already does Mach 0.83 with a C-level cabin has no market. None. If a certified flying example example of the thing cannot find a buyer at any price today, the question for what the 50 people holding those letters of intent is not whether the new one will be faster. It is what will be different in 2032 that makes a stranger want to buy yours in 2037. The early owner program, a thousand hours of coverage, and a fuel allowance is the company answering that question the only way it can. It's paying you to carry the risk. And one more thing. For all these LOI holders, guys, the price goes from fourteen to sixteen after the first two hundred and fifty. Nobody has said publicly what happens to your deposit if twenty thirty-two becomes, let's say, twenty thirty-six. Or on this program, that's not the downside case. It's the base case. So let me count. So nobody says I'm exaggerating. Gulfstream out in 89, Jaffee out in ninety, a funding halt in ninety-one. The supplier terminated in 01, a fatal crash in 2003, the buyout collapse in 08, a bankruptcy in 2010, SJ thirtyi never certified twenty eleven through twenty four. Eight, more than one hand, guys, the ninth life started in twenty twenty four. I watched five things on any manufacturer, I'm putting them on the record today, so we can come back to them. Capital. A billion dollar raise announced, no number, and no name attached. Red until there is. Certification. Two different bets. The SJ34 reuses a certified type, and most of the engineering exists. So 2029 is possible if the money shows up. So that's yellow. The SJ36 is practically a new airplane with four new systems. And I have never seen a program of that scope certify on its first announced date. So that's red. And then you got orders. 50 plus LOIs is interest. It's far from a backlog. Watch for disclosed non-refundable deposits with account. So we'll call that one yellow as well. And then you got support. The factory owns the fleet, which is good for four owners and bad for the type. So that's yellow. And then you got the value. The certified airplane has no market. Guys, that's a huge red flag. And it stays red until a stranger buys one from another stranger. My honest read, guys, stated so you can hold me to it. The SJ 34 is a coin flip and only if the capital arrives. And the SJ 36 on schedule is where I would not put my own money. The thing that changes my mind is not a record flight, and it is not a mock-up. It is the first SJ34 delivered to a stranger, and he has to pay full price with a serial number and a closing that I can verify. Now the gap. Because a company can be a bad investment and still build an airplane you want. The best selling light jet in the world does about Mach 0.8 and a little over 2,000 nautical miles. The Wichita Light Jets, 2,000 to 2100, the Swiss one, about 2,000. All of them stop for fuel going Los Angeles to Teterborough into a winter headwind. For a 3,000 nautical mile, you step up to a mid-sized cabin, usually add a second pilot and a much larger hangar, and add $6 to $12 million to the price. The SJ36 proposes $14,000, 9 seats, a single pilot, 3,000 nautical, Mach.88 And a sea level cabin to forty one thousand feet. Guys, nobody sells that. Nobody ever has. On paper, the gap is real and it's wide. So why has it been open for 30 years? Well, there's two reasons the forums skip. One is the cabin. The SJ 30 cabin is about four feet tall and about four foot ten inches wide. And the SJ 30 six keeps roughly that cross section. It gets longer, not rounded, and I'm laughing because I mean it's so small inside it's insane. So this market has voted on speed versus cabin over and over. And it has voted cabin every time. And again, I'm giggling because if you've ever seen the mock-up or attempted to get in a cabin that's four feet tall, it's not very enjoyable. So the fastest civil jet ever built in this country sold fewer copies than its slower, fatter sibling from the same factory. Buyers say speed, they write checks for headroom. Two, residual value, which I just spent an entire segment on. The certified version of this airplane has no market today. It was a $14 million airplane from a company that has failed eight times and has a value problem no spec sheet's gonna fix. And the early owner program with a thousand hours of coverage is the company telling you it knows that. Is there a gap? You betcha. Does the market want it filled at 250 airplanes a year? Well, history says the buyer is real and the volume isn't. Is this the company to fill it? Eight previous owners said yes. I planted the seed. If you're holding a letter of intent on this airplane, or you are the lender being asked to finance one, call us before you wire anything, not because I'm going to tell you not to do it, because I'm going to show you what happened to the value of every orphan type we have ever tracked, from the day the factory went quiet to the day the last one was parted out. That call will cost you nothing. So hit up VREF.com and VREF it before you make a bad decision. And here's where I land it. Ed Sweringen designed a genuinely great aircraft 40 years, there were eight deaths, $700 million later, that is still true, and it is the only thing about this program that has never changed. Every owner has been undone by the same three things. Not enough capital, too many plans at once, and a market that admires speed and buys the cabin. The new owner has more attention than any of them, has said more honest things about the odds than any of them, and is attempting more at once than any of them. with a mock-up that needed help standing up. Whether that is the ninth life or the last one, I don't know. He said so himself. What I can do is put the five pillars on the record, capital, certification, order support and value, and then we're going to come back to them. We will revisit Cyberjet in six months, and I'm going to do it again in 12, same five questions, and tell you what moved, not what was announced, what actually moved. If you want to be the one holding me to it, The comments are open and I read everyone, including yours. This has been the truth about the aviation market. I'm Jason Zilberbrand. We'll see you next week. Until then, fly safe and stay smart.