Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #86: Overcoming Social Anxiety in Young Adults: A 22-Year-Old Shares His Story

Transcript

#86: Overcoming Social Anxiety in Young Adults: A 22-Year-Old Shares His Story · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch, the podcast for parents with older kids in their 20s and 30s who are struggling to move forward.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: What holds young adults back can be a variety of reasons.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Understanding what those are and wanting to help your adult child to work through them so they can thrive in the world is what Launch is all about.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Today, my guest is a young man who struggled with severe social anxiety until he refused to anymore.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: At age 22, Matthew Bowen took matters into his own hands, and this is his story.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: You're going to hear what he did, how he did it, and what Matthew is doing now to help others move past their own struggles.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Not only does he share what worked for him, but the way that Matthew opens up about his deepest challenges makes this conversation even more powerful.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: I know you're going to walk away with a better understanding of social anxiety and even inspired, because change is possible.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: And hopefully you'll share this episode with your son or daughter who's going through this.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Let's begin.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Matthew.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Hi, Sherry.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Hi.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining me here on launch.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to have you.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: You are my fourth young adult on the podcast.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: I really know it is crazy.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: I really like having um young people in their 20s and 30s to talk about what it's like for them today, for you today, especially if you've experienced something that so many young adults are currently struggling with.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: I think it's so helpful for parents to learn how others have overcome their issues so that they feel like it's possible.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: It's possible that if you do the work, you can find your way through it.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: It gives parents hope.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope I can inspire some people here today.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Let's begin with your story, what it's been like for you growing up, and then we're gonna talk about what strategies you've used to manage your issues.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Um and what made you decide that you had to start helping others?
2:25
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of questions.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: So let's just begin with how old are you now?
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Because for those listening, you might sound like a 40-year-old.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm uh I'm 29 years old.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Let's begin.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: Right now, like as I'm speaking, I'm just a totally different person.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I grew up with severe social anxiety.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Like I struggled to make friends and be comfortable talking to people until I was literally 22 years old.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: My life growing up, I grew up in the country.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: I had two siblings, I had a lot of cousins, you know, I had a mom and dad, but I I felt like I was always very shy and timid around other people.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: And this first started showing itself when I went to preschool.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: The teacher noticed that during PE, I would always sit on the side of the wall and I wouldn't talk to anybody.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: I still remember some of this, and I remember thinking like I was scared of the other kids.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Like every everyone else was loud, and I was scared to be around that.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: This just started going into the rest of my life, going into um middle school and into junior high school.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: I I would have people I would talk to at school, but I was always afraid to like invite them to hang out.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And I I never really had a social life that early on.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, I did have one person that I would hang around with, but only because my parents introduced me to um their family.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, he moved away for high school.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: So I felt like I was starting from scratch when I moved into high school.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: So I struggled socially, like very socially anxious.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: But the weird part is my brother and sister, they were totally fine.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So that was always confusing for me.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: It almost feels like from the minute I was born, I just had this anxious part of myself that was just biological in a way.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't have good social skills when I started high school.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And when you start high school, that's about the time when you were supposed to, you know, be making friends, you start hanging out with people.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: And for me, I just didn't know how to do that.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: I would just go to school, do my classwork, I might talk to some classmates, but I wasn't making like real friendships or a social life.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: Some things I remember doing, like my ninth grade year, I remember going to lunch and I didn't know anybody, and I would just walk and find some random group to sit with.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: Eventually they would leave and I would just be sitting there by myself.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: And then we would go to concourse to hang out for about 30 minutes before the next class.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: And I remember it's it's where people just, you know, hang out and talk.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know anybody and I didn't really know how to start a conversation.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: So I was just awkwardly walking up to groups of people trying to like blend into the social circle.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: And people would just say things like, like, why aren't you saying anything?
5:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, uh, like, why are you just standing there?
5:28
SPEAKER_01: They weren't very inviting, honestly.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not sure if I'm just unlucky in doing that, and that that happened to me, or if maybe I was being just it was just very strange to other people.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: But I ended up just spending most of those lunch breaks in the bathroom because I didn't want to be seen by myself.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Because just staying there by yourself is very awkward and it's embarrassing because when you're in high school, you know, if you don't have a friend group and you're by yourself, then people think there's something wrong with you.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: And usually, you know, you get made fun of, you get picked on.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to avoid that together.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: So I would try to just blend into the background, like to where I didn't stand out.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know that it was turning into this problem.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Like I thought I was just shy growing up.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: I was introverted, but I didn't realize some of the things that I was going through were very different from just being shy.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: Like I remember when I was trying to talk to people, I would be just extremely in my head.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: I would be replaying conversations over and over.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: And when I was talking to somebody, I was so afraid of just messing up and saying something weird that I couldn't like be myself.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: It's trying so hard to be normal that it would just make me be even more weird and people would feel like uncomfortable around me.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: I never really got invited to hang out at all.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: The crazy part is these people like they were good people I was hanging around with, but they just I I guess they didn't know I wanted to hang out, and I never asked.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: So I was too afraid to ask, and it just turned into this bad feeling of just always waiting for someone to invite me to do something, and it just never happened.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: I remember one time I did go to a friend's house or a classmate's house to work on a school project, and this was the first time, it was I was like 17.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: And because I I hadn't done that before, the first time going over to a friend's house, I was like my heart was beating out of my chest.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm sweating, and I'm just trying all I'm thinking is just don't mess this up.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, just look like you've done this before.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: After that, I I didn't really get invited to to do anything else.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: I was starting to worry like for my future because I was scared to talk to people.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't make friends, and I was afraid to graduate.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: I was afraid, like, what am I supposed to do when I go to college, when I go work a job?
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, like I can't, I don't know how to do these basic human things.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: I was feeling like I was falling behind everybody else.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Like all my classmates that I was with, they were making friends, they had a good social life, they were getting scholarships, getting into good colleges.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't doing any of those things.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: All this pressure inside of me just it just started building up over time.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: The pressure of not having like basic social skills or a social life, it made it harder and harder to like want to open up to people because it made it feel like if they found out the real me, they would find these things out, and then they would think I'm weird and they wouldn't want to hang out with me.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: It was just all this like mental pain that I was carrying.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Eventually, some of that mental like pain, it started to turn into more resentment, honestly.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Like my my brother and sister, they had good social lives.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: I started to like resent them for it.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Like I started to resent my my brother and sister, my other classmates that had you know a lot of friends.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Instead of seeing them and like maybe asking for help from them, I just I was so I guess I was being prideful.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, like I wanted to figure this out myself, but I didn't want to accept help from other people.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: And I never told my parents about it.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: Like my mom would, she would ask me like how my social life is very occasionally, but they didn't really know like what was going on.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: They didn't know how bad I was struggling, like with the social anxiety.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: They were very concerned about you know, my grades, that I wasn't doing anything, I wasn't doing drugs, I wasn't hanging out with a bad crowd, but I feel like they weren't checking on me to see if I was making friends and I was having a good social life.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't blame them for it because I feel like everybody struggles with their own things.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: They they probably had never experienced having that level of social anxiety, so they didn't really know what to look for.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: I was too afraid to tell them that I was struggling.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: And so I graduate high school and I go to community college.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: I try to get a uh part-time job as a cashier because I'm hoping that this will fix my issue.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: But honestly, just being in the environment, it was just over stimulating for me.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: I was pushing myself to do it, but honestly, I was just feeling mentally exhausted and just feeling worse every day from doing cashier.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: I started getting so fixated on like what my face was doing when I was talking to people.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember thinking, like, what do I do with my mouth?
10:20
SPEAKER_01: I was so in my head and I got so fixated on on like how I appear to other people that every time I would go into a conversation, I was just thinking, like, like, what are my eyes doing?
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is my mouth doing?
10:33
SPEAKER_01: Eventually I was studying engineering and I was able to get an engineering internship.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: That was a little bit better because it was an office job and I wasn't talking to people all day.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: But the issue with that was I wasn't given a lot of work at my job.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Whenever I would need to go talk to my manager to get work, I was afraid to do that.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: I was basically afraid to talk to all of my coworkers.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: I was afraid to get out of my cubicle.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: So I would just spend days or or weeks just sitting there, like not really working on anything, but afraid to go talk to everyone else.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: The longer I waited, the worse it got because I was afraid.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: If I, after a week of not doing anything, if I go talk to my manager, he's gonna want to know like what I've been working on, and really I haven't been working on anything.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: It was just this mental trap.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: This was all starting to build.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: And around this time, it's when I started getting really depressed from it.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Sitting in this cubicle, struggling to make friends, struggling at my career, and thinking that this is just my life now.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: For the next 20 years, 30 years, I'm gonna, you know, not have friends, I'm not gonna get married.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: It was incredibly depressing.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: I realized like it was now or never, like I knew therapy was an option and I knew I had social anxiety by then.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Like I started reading stuff online about it, but I was so afraid to do therapy because the idea of like opening up and talking to somebody about this, it was just it was like not even a possibility for me because I was so afraid.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: But I remember like that was now or never, and I would rather figure it out now than just regret it later in my life when when I always wondered if this could have helped me.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: So that day I talked to my mom because she's she's a lot more understanding of mental health issues.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, my my dad is not, he's never really had issues with that, so he was not understanding.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: But I talked to my mom about it and told her it took me like two hours just to talk to her about it because I was sitting there like just anticipating and and just extremely anxious.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: And I told her, Mom, I'm I I think I need to go to therapy.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Why?
12:44
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, do you remember when we were at church the other day and and I was talking to some of those people?
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was incredibly anxious when I was talking to them, and this is basically affecting like all of my life.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Like I I'm struggling really bad to talk to people, and she she didn't really understand how bad it was.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: She agreed like I should probably go see a therapist.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: So I booked my first therapy session.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: I go in there and she just starts asking me, like, you know, like what's wrong?
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Within like 15 seconds, I'm just like bawling.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: I I had so much like pent-up pain and frustration in my life that I had never shared before.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And and now I was sharing it, and I just broke down and started crying.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: It honestly, it felt, it felt so good.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: Like being able to finally let it all out instead of hiding it from everybody else.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: It we didn't really talk about anything super productive.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: It was mainly me just getting all of it out, saying, telling her like I was struggling to make friends.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: I I was afraid that I wouldn't get married and all these things.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: And she just was trying to comfort me, saying, you know, like we're gonna get through this.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, like I'm so glad you told me, but we're gonna get through this and it's going to be okay.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: When I left there, I I felt so I felt so good because I felt like I was finally confronting the fear, like my social anxiety, and just instead of just letting it like control me for for my life, I I was finally taking the steps and I I knew if I at least tried, like I wasn't going to regret it.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: After that, I I started doing uh CBT cognitive behavioral therapy, just kind of rewiring my brain, looking at negative thought patterns.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: And then at the same time, I was also I started inviting people to hang out, like like old friends from high school, classmates that I knew at school.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: I started trying to invite everybody to do something with me like every week, trying to just put myself in more and more social situations.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: Over time, it was extremely like nerve-wracking, but over time I felt like I started to get more and more comfortable with doing this.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: After about two months of doing therapy, I felt like I'd made a lot of progress, but I was still overwhelmed with the social anxiety.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: And I also still had depression.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: My uh therapist saw this, and so she referred me to a psychiatrist.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: I was prescribed anti-anxiety and antidepressant medication.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: I just want to say before I even did this, like I was doing everything right that I was supposed to be doing.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Like I was exercising, I was dieting, I was getting good sleep, I was going out and socializing, and I was still just overwhelmed by the anxiety.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: And the therapist saw that and she knew that I would probably benefit from at least trying medication.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: And let me tell you, the medication after about two months, it was just, it was like night, it was a night and day difference for me.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: It cleared up my depression.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: My anxiety was a lot more manageable.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: I ended up moving out of my parents' house.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: I moved on campus and I got involved in a lot of campus events and I just started talking to more and more people, getting out of my comfort zone.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: It just started snowballing after that.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: Like my progress became just exponential because I kept putting myself in these social environments.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: I was still doing therapy.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: I was able to interview, get a new job.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: I actually felt confident in my job interviews.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: Eventually, I graduated.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: I started hosting parties at my house.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: The very first one was extremely nerve-wracking.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't know what we would do for fun, but I ended up just having like a fire pit and a grill out outside my house, and it worked out fine.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Once I realized like I could do that, I just kept pushing more and more.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: I I started doing uh I started online dating, like I'd never dated before.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: I started solo traveling, I had never done that before.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: I was getting all of this confidence, and eventually I realized I wanted to move somewhere else.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: So I moved across the country to San Diego, California.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: I was living there for the last two years.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: I was forming new friend groups.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: I was the one, I was the one bringing people together at this point.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: Like I was the one of the social ones at work, and I start started to realize that talking to people and like socializing and bringing people together, like that was I really enjoyed that.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: It was just completely covered up in the social anxiety.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: And so I so that's why I had so much pain growing up because I secretly like wanted all this, I just couldn't do it.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: So I was in San Diego.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: I I was uh also you know going out, approaching girls, getting over rejection, things like that.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Eventually, I I grew out of my software engineering job and I wanted to try something totally different in my career.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: So I jumped into door-to-door sales, I did that for the summer.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm uh creating content online.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm just wanting to share my journey of going from having social anxiety to being socially confident, and I'm just trying to help everyone else who used to be in my shoes.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: That's where I'm at today.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: First of all, you haven't stopped talking for 20 minutes.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Really?
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, it's a good thing.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: But I'm listening to your story, and I'm like, here's a kid that probably didn't talk 20 minutes for 20 years.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: I think that's incredible.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm listening to you like inside and going, I am so proud of you.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: What a huge accomplishment.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, I could have asked you 10 questions and all of that, but I'm like, no, I'm just gonna let him just keep talking and talking.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: And and as you're talking, like, is he self-conscious about what he's saying?
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Are you anywhere near that type of person that you were?
18:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, five years ago.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Are you did you make this huge transformation, or is there still a part of you that will always be anxious, but you have done so much work that you know how to manage it?
18:30
SPEAKER_01: It's what you just said.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: The uh I the the raw like the anxiety, it is still there.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: It's just not overwhelming, it's not at an overwhelming level anymore, but it is still there.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: Like I'll still have these fear thoughts, like like talking on camera, I'll think, oh, don't mess up.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, don't mess up.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: You're talking for 20 minutes, you know, you're doing good.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Don't I was afraid I don't want to get in my head.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, like I still struggle with stuff like that.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: And if if I want to like, you know, go ask a girl out that I see walking on the street, I still get this like fear response, but I can I can catch the thought in my head and look at it instead of just letting it control me and think about it logically and take action on it.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: That's really the big thing, is just you know, rewiring those those thoughts and not letting them control you because all those thoughts are are not true necessarily.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: Everybody has some level of social anxiety.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: It's just once it starts to uh prevent you from, you know, you start to avoid situations that a normal person wouldn't avoid, then and it's affecting your quality of life.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: That's when it becomes an issue, and that's when it becomes more of a disorder.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Like once you confront these fears, now obviously, like I'm at, I'm probably beyond a level that most people are at with social anxiety, like like I'm doing better than most people.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Once you realize that you can actually fix this, the confidence that you feel from it, it's just it's so addicting.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: And it just makes you want to keep doing more and more because I I I've done these small things and I know I can do it, and I've overcome it.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: And now I I want to keep going further and further with it.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Putting yourself in uncomfortable situations is gotta be the most important thing you can do.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: It is how we build inner strength and resilience, and it's how we grow.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: And if it for the parent that's listening, if you keep your young adult in there or allow them to stay inside their head, inside their room, living out this fear every day, you are not doing them a service.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Stop feeding the anxiety because you have to face your fears in order for us to grow.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you were worried about how am I gonna get married, how am I gonna live my life like this, was like your was the driving force to you wanting to get help.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: The fact that you are doing this for other people is so powerful.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: I I've already spoken to other young adults about you and told them that I I'm excited for when this episode comes out because I want them to know that they are not alone and that what feels so debilitating isn't that there is a way through this, and that you're gonna tell us today what some of those tricks are and suggestions and tools that work for you.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about what the signs are of real social anxiety versus just having a shy, a shyness trait.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: I would say uh most people, like kids, like when they're growing up, they it's pretty natural to be afraid of you know talking to new people.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, like you, it's the first day of class, you need to like talk and make friends.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Usually, like, you know, that's normal to be scared of.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: But as you do these things, you start to gain confidence, and and over time, as you get older, that shyness is starts to go away.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: The only difference with so Social anxiety is that shyness, it doesn't go away and it could actually get worse.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: If you're struggling to talk to people and have normal social interactions, it can it starts to become social anxiety because it's affecting your life.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: And I would say that's the big distinction is if it's affecting the quality of your life and you start to avoid situations that you would normally, you know, not avoid, then that's when it starts to become an issue.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: In terms of specific signs, there are some things that you can look for.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: So for me personally, I always felt like everyone was watching me.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Like I did not want to be the center of attention.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to stand up and speak in front of the class.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: More specifically, when I'm in uh social interactions, I was so in my head afraid of messing up and like and looking stupid that I would just overthink everything that I had to say and it just didn't come out naturally at all.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Instead of listening to the other person and focusing on what they had to say, I was focused on myself, trying to just think, oh, don't mess up, don't say something weird, don't embarrass yourself.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: And it made it where I just couldn't be myself.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: And in terms of medication, I was I was listening to a podcast the other day.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: The person was saying, who's a doctor saying it sh it should not be categorized as we shouldn't call it mental health, we should call it more brain health because it's like it's like having uh taking medicine like for your heart, or if you have diabetes, it's can be the same thing for your brain.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Like you can just be lacking certain chemicals.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: I like that that perspective.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: It's less, like you said, stigmatizing.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Can I ask you about panic attacks?
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Because one of the one of the big social anxiety signs is the visceral reactions that you're getting, right?
23:47
SPEAKER_00: So you're talking about being so incredibly self-conscious.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: But what about the heart racing, the palpitations or the sweat?
23:55
SPEAKER_00: And did you constantly feel that kind of fight or flight feeling inside of you?
24:00
SPEAKER_00: That's where your stomach is tightening up.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, that's not shyness.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: So did you have that?
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: I was lucky that I I was never put in a situation that was bad enough for me to have a panic attack.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, although if if the situations could have escalated more, I definitely could have.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: But I would get the fireflights response constantly.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, talk us through the four steps to your social anxiety recovery system.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: Don't start with medication.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a it's kind of a last resort.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: But the cool thing about this guide is it's it's really, even if you don't have anxiety, like just doing these things, it's going to help you live a healthier life overall.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: So starting, I'll start with number one is to stop hiding.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: That is such an important role to go by because if you are, you can't get anywhere if you're hiding all of your struggles and you never tell anybody.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Because what happens is it starts building all this pressure inside, all this frustration.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: And when you can't let it out, you start to not open up to people and it just continues to build and build, and you have all this pressure, it's just gonna get worse over over time.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: You're eventually gonna have to let this out, and by then it's probably going to explode.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: But if you can start getting in the habit of talking to other people, it can be um a parent, a sibling, close friend, then it's going to make you more relaxed, more comfortable with with how you're feeling and realize that you know other people aren't going to judge you differently or or they're not going to, it's not gonna be the worst possible thing if you start sharing this with other people.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: And it's going to just make you so much better, like emotionally when you when you communicate with other people.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: When you see that your your um young adult is hiding in their room, they are hiding a problem.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: They're not just uh, yeah, you might say, oh, they're sitting there and they're gaming.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's a problem.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Now they're addicted to gaming or they're watching Netflix or whatever, but that's not that is just a cover for something that's deeper, that's really going on.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: So I say this and I said it already.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: Open that door, talk to them, um, and find out what they're hiding from, what pain they're hiding from.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to make that clear because I think that that is the first step to helping your your you know adult kids is to find out what they're hiding from and not just physically, but emotionally, what that pain is.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely do that, parents.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, don't just worry about your kids' grades if they're getting in trouble at school.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Like also, you know, ask them how they're doing, like how's their how are their their friends doing?
26:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, like how are they doing socially, like mentally?
26:44
unknown: Yeah.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: Even if you think they're they're doing okay, like it's you never really know.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: So um stop hiding.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, talk to your parents, siblings, a close friend.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: But ideally, you want to talk to a therapist if you're really struggling with this because they're gonna give you the best help and they're gonna really understand like what's going on with you.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: So, step two is called rewiring your thoughts.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: And this is called CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: So, this is what you would do if you were in talk therapy.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: And the purpose of this is to all the thoughts that you have, the fears, what's happening in your brain is when you think of something that you're afraid of, like say talking to a new friend, talking to a girl, you are instantly ruling that out because your brain is short circuiting and jumping to, nope, I'm not gonna do it.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: And this has just developed over time, and you don't even logically get to think about it.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: You're just your brain is automatically saying no.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: What you have to do is really sit down with a pen and paper and step through four things.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: So just write down like what am I afraid of?
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Like when inviting a friend to hang out, like what am I afraid of?
27:58
SPEAKER_00: These are the the questions that you're supposed to write down.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: So start with, what am I afraid of?
28:05
SPEAKER_01: What am I afraid of happening?
28:07
SPEAKER_01: What then what do I think will actually happen?
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Number four is if the worst case does happen, then am I going to be able to handle that?
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, am I going to be okay?
28:18
SPEAKER_01: When you actually step through these, you start to realize that some of these fears you have, they're just completely not nearly as bad as you think.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: So, say inviting a friend to hang out.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm I I feel scared.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: I feel afraid that they're going to reject me.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: And what do I think will happen?
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, they could well the worst, what's the worst case of happening?
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, they could say no.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: They uh might not want to talk to me anymore because they think I'm weird.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: That's probably the worst case.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: And but what actually might happen is they could say yes, um, they could say no, but really if the worst case does happen, it's it's not the end of the world.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: If they say no and say they don't want to hang out with me, yeah, like it's gonna suck, but it's it's not going to kill me.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: I can I can move on and and that's that.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: And once you start doing this with all these fears that you have, you start to realize that the fears that you're afraid of, it's really not as bad as you think, and it's manageable.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: And this does not happen overnight.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: This is a this takes work consistently over weeks, months.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Just every time you have a negative thought like that, just pause and just step through it.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: And if you keep doing this, it's going to get easier and easier, and you're not going to just jump to the worst-case conclusion all the time.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: You're not going to let your social anxiety just run your brain.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: So uh step three is exposure.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: So obviously, you need to be out socializing with people.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: You can't just do therapy and expect it to just solve all of your issues.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: So for me, I I just started inviting people to hang out every single weekend.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Just all people I knew from school, people I ran into at the gym.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: I might not even know them that well, but I just started inviting people.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: I was very scared the first time.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: The first time I sent a text and just flipped my phone over and didn't look at it for like several hours because I was so scared.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: And they they ended up saying no, but I realized, okay, that actually wasn't so bad.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: And I just started doing more and more and it got easier.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: And uh I feel like it's very important to, as you do these things, it gets easier and easier.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: It's just the very first time is very difficult.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: But in terms of find of really overcoming your social anxiety with going out and talking to people, I think it's very important to find some kind of social group that say meets up weekly where it's maybe the same people, and you can just keep going to this event over and over.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: And if it's a if it if they're good people and it's a good healthy environment, then it's going to serve as a very good way to start to desensitize you over time to your social anxiety and and talking to people.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: So I found this of this group in college, I found like a religious group, and they had uh like three or four social events every single weekend.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: I just started going to every single one of them.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: And eventually doing this over the period of like three to six months, it just started to desensitize me to the uh the fear.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: So step four is just building momentum.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: You uh you want to keep doing all these things.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: And once you start to overcome some of these small fears, like inviting a friend to hang out, you start to do the next level of that because there are levels to this.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: You you start to uh host parties, you start to go on dates, you start to um ask people out, you start you start to uh do all these things that that just keep growing your your confidence.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: And for me personally, what I found was when I started to overcome the feet these fears, it it gave me such fulfillment and I would get some adrenaline as well.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: But it was so exciting to realize that I had control over my social anxiety and I can actually fix this.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: And it got me addicted to just pushing myself socially, just every week trying to be better until eventually I stopped being socially anxious and became just the socially confident person.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: And I'm still pushing myself to this day.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I've been doing this for the last eight years, and now I'm posting on social media, and it's still scary.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm still doing things every day that are scary, but I just want to keep pushing myself because I know I can do so much more.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm just it brings me a lot of fulfillment in doing this, and I just want to now just share it with everybody else.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: But uh, those are the four steps.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Great.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: I love them.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm just first of all, I'm just sitting here enjoying this conversation.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm just letting you just go because it's wonderful to hear this.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: It's so much nicer than hearing it from somebody who's lived it than it is from a therapist, to be honest.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: But both are good, both are good.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the like that momentum.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: So someone's like, okay, I'm in, I want to do this.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do everything that Matthew did, and I want this, but I want to have I I want it to happen faster, right?
33:35
SPEAKER_00: A lot of young adults are they're not 22, they're they might be 28, 30, 32, they're older, right?
33:42
SPEAKER_00: So they want this.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Um let's talk about how what what are the steps uh that you can do to speed it up.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: So when you're doing all these things, you're going to have a lot of social anxiety.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: And it can it can be a very strong uh limiter in your progress.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Like you can be trying to push yourself, but your social anxiety can only let you do so much and it can cause slow progress.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: So these are some natural things that you can do to lower your anxiety.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: So, number one for everybody is to exercise.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Everyone really should be exercising, it's so healthy for you.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: When you exercise, your body releases endorphins, you lower your anxiety levels, it lowers inflammation in your body, you can think more clearly.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: It's just so good for you mentally, and it's going to help you with overthinking as well.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And specifically with exercise, it's walking is good, but you really need to get your heart rate up.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: So, like going for a run or doing some kind of cardio workout really gets your heart rate up and you're going to get the best results for that.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Number two is sleep.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: So if you're getting not, if you're not getting enough sleep every night, you're going to feel irritable.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: You might be more anxious.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: For me personally, I it would just zap all my social energy.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: When I don't get at least seven or eight hours a night, I just I might not have a ton of social anxiety, but I just don't want to talk to people.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't have any energy.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: And that's what happened to me in college.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: I didn't get enough sleep, and I just literally didn't want to talk to anybody.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I wasted a lot of time because I didn't realize that.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: So get good sleep.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: Number three is diet.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, not everybody has access to cook for themselves, but if you do, or if you if you can just find food that's not always fast food, then it's going to help your brain.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: It's going to lower brain fog, you're going to feel better, you're going to have more energy.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: So I would focus on food that's not so processed.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: If you could cook for yourself, great, but avoid processed foods.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And if you're doing all these things from the list, you're going to therapy, you're putting yourself out there, inviting people to hang out, you're exercising, you're getting good sleep, all these things, and you're still struggling, then that's when I would consider medication.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: So I was doing all of these things, but my my therapist saw that I was still struggling.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: So I was prescribed an SSRI, which helped with my anxiety and my depression, and it just made all my progress just exponential.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: I I turned my life around in about three months and I couldn't even recognize myself.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: And it was because the uh medication lowered the anxiety, it it uh lowered my depression, and it just allowed me to be myself and it allowed myself to come out more instead of being dampened by the anxiety.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: So it just saved me so much time.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: All right, great.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: The next question I want to ask you is what social skills or tips do you have, rather, to help somebody build up their social skills?
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Like again, they're like you said, they're doing all the work, but social skills is something that we all have to learn.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: We we're not born with the ability to go to make conversation.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: We don't we these are all these cues are things that we learn.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: We learn through other people, we learn through um, I think it's just it's it's sometimes it's just modeling.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Like you watch how other people look at make eye contact, or you can look at what somebody is doing that you don't think is good a good social skill.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: So, what do you have for somebody who's been very anxious for many years?
37:34
SPEAKER_00: And so they haven't been able to pick up the social skills and and the cues.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: What do you what are some of the tips that you have for them?
37:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: So I I wasn't perfect.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I learned a lot about these things later in life, but I remember being uh when I was in college, I met this one guy, everyone else liked him, and I was like, man, like how why does everybody like this person so much?
37:59
SPEAKER_01: And me being around him, he would just he would always uh he would ask me a bunch of questions.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: I would try to talk to him about something, and he would always turn the the conversation around on me, talking about things that I was interested in and just listening to what I had to say.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: And it just made me feel really good.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: It made me feel like I was being heard, and I I realized he was doing this to everybody, and that was just his personality.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: So people they they like it when you ask, when you take an interest in them.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: So I would recommend asking the other person questions and just listening to what they have to say.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: Like don't make the conversation always about you.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes with uh some people they don't know how to read the room.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: They uh you you know the person who they start talking to you and you're bored and you don't want to keep listening, but they just keep talking and they are just they're they're not aware that you are not interested and they're so focused on what they have to say that they they don't realize it.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: And um, this can also push people away.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: And for this specifically, it's it's it's hard.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's harder to fix because people aren't very aware of it.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: And when you're in conversation, it you're you're not really thinking of it.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: And I I would do the same thing as I started getting over my social anxiety.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: I started talking more, and I started to realize that I was becoming this person sometimes in conversations and I would be over-talking.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: And for me, I was I just started having to become more self-conscious about it.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: Like I would go into conversations and just think, okay, slow down, just let the other person talk a little bit more.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: Maybe don't share your entire story, maybe just ask them more questions.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: And just try to be more mindful about letting the other person talk, you know?
39:56
SPEAKER_01: And people are some people are gonna really struggle with this, but it's just something you have to put some effort in, you have to be mindful about if you want to slowly start to fix it.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna tell you something.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: The reason why I'm smiling so much is because I know adults that don't ask questions about you.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: They will just, and I I would say to my husband so often, do you realize that we just spent two hours with these people and they haven't asked us one question about us?
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm I'm great at asking questions because I I think I want to keep the conversation flowing.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Plus, to your point, people love talking about themselves, but at one point, ask about them.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you're saying they're going, wow, that was that was crazy.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: This person doesn't even know the name of my kids, and I've known them for five years.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Like it's silly, but you know, you're you're making some very strong points, and not just to overcome social anxiety, but like really important social skills that a lot of people miss.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: And so I appreciate you uh you suggesting the asking questions and reading the room.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: So those are really good.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: And there's one if you're not if you're not aware of how much you speak in conversations, if you don't know, then there's a chance you you maybe speak too much, or you're just not aware of it.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: I I read somewhere that um people, well, you know that people don't have attention spans anymore anyway.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: This thanks to social media, you got about seven seconds to say what you have to say, and then they're like done.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: They'll scroll if they could mentally.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: But I heard that someone once it that people will listen for about three minutes.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's like I should validate that, but um, three minutes.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: And if you've been talking for more than three minutes, you've lost them.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: But I don't know if that's true because people we go to seminars and we listen.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: So, but I think it's a sort of like mindless conversation if you're just rambling on, sort of like the way I am right now.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: But um, okay, so I don't know if that's true, but it's a good way to think like, wow, I've been talking too long, you know, becoming that having that sort of self-awareness.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: But there is one more that you that I think is very important that I want you to add to this, besides asking questions and reading the room, is listening, which you just be doing so nicely that you didn't even realize I was asking you a question, that how how important it is that listening skill, you know, and active listening is something that I talk about a lot in this course I teach about you know, nodding your head.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes if you don't know what to say, and you want them, the person to know that you're actually listening, you paraphrase, you repeat what they just said.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: So you go, so if I understand what you're saying, it's really important to read the room.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: Now, all I did was repeat what you just said, but it gave me some time, it gave me an opportunity to like, I don't know what I'm gonna say right now.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna actively by actively listening, I'm basically repeating what you just said, but you you think I am I'm completely engaged in this conversation, but it's buying me time, it's um actively listening to what you're saying, making you feel heard.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, listening is a really important skill.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: And there's yeah, yeah.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: It's actually something I learned in psychology, my master's is um is paraphrasing.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: And it starts off with so if I understand you, so if I hear you correctly, what you're saying is, and then you're you you repeat what they said, and it really does work.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: It's great for parents to to let their young adults know that they were hurt, you know, without trying to fix the problem.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: Just repeat the repeat what they heard, what they said, and they'll feel like you're not trying to solve everything, you're just being present with them.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we are making such wonderful progress for anyone who wants to complete or do your social anxiety recovery roadmap that you're working on.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: And I know I feel like I'm pressuring.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: You to get it done, but I think it's going to be something that's so valuable.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: When would you think that they could reach out to you directly and have that?
44:07
SPEAKER_00: Because this this guide is fantastic.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: So I can just imagine the work that you're putting into the the next the next uh the roadmap.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: When do you think it'll be ready?
44:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm now now you're gonna be stuck to a timeline.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: I no, I I I uh the goal was to have it done in the next two weeks, so it would be June the uh 17th.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: Matthew, I always like to leave on a positive note.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: Everything you said today has been so positive, but what would someone's life look like when they tackle their social anxiety?
44:47
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's being able to talk to people and make friends, it is just part of human nature.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: It's I feel like it's one of the most important parts of life.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: And if you can't do these things, it it just affects every part of your life, your your career, your your the people you meet, your your just everything.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: And and if you can just tackle this one thing, just being able to talk to people, make connections, it's just going to trickle into every part of your life and it's going to increase your potential, and you're just going to have so many more experiences and and meet so many more people.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: You're it you're just gonna be a totally different person.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: Like if you can if you have social anxiety right now and you can tackle this, tackle this, then you you can't even believe like the person that you're going to become in the next one, two, five years.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would never have thought that I would be where I am uh today.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: And it's just kind of mind-blowing what can happen when you uh can overcome your social anxiety.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: I can't thank you enough for this conversation.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's really so important for parents to s to hear that it's possible, you know, and even and I'm I'm hoping that many parents would send this episode to their young adults.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: I know that I would.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: I I have um there's another episode with a young adult who who's a gamer, and I tell every parent who struggle who has a young adult struggle with gaming, send this to them.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: And so this is going to be my social anxiety um recovery story.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, I want you to know that anytime you want to come back and tell us more about what you're what's going on with your life, you are very welcome to be here.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: But I can't thank you enough for for opening up to us and and sharing the story.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: It's incredible.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: And I really am looking forward to your roadmap, your recovery roadmap.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: So will you let me know?
46:49
SPEAKER_00: I I know we spent time.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: I'll let you know.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let me know.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you, I'm glad you told me to do to uh when is it going to be out?
46:56
SPEAKER_01: Because having a deadline, it helps me finish things.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: I sort of knew that.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: I sort of knew I was putting the pressure on you, but we we all need a little uh firecracker, right?
47:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: We have a deadline.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: It you you're like, okay, I gotta figure this out.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: I can't procrastinate anymore.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: Matthew Bowen, thank you so much for being here today.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Sherry.
47:19
SPEAKER_00: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential question.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: Talk to you soon.