Latest / Stuff You Should Know / What's the deal with controlled burns?

Transcript

What's the deal with controlled burns? · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This episode of Stuff You Should Know is sponsored by Squarespace.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Whether you need a landing page, a beautiful gallery of
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: professional blogger, an online store, it's all possible with the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Squarespace website. Go to squarespace dot com and set your
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: website apart. Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I'm Josh Park. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry's
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: over there, and there's some coffee. Let's see a few posters. Uh,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: there's a Beasley brand storage thing. You're getting. You're getting
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: some of that Beasley catch come in your way? Maybe
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: what was that all about? I hope it's Beasley, it
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: could also be Bisley. I don't know. You know, I
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: got a listener mail from someone who went to get
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: a Bond side tree in Boston after they were inspired
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: after our episode, and the dude she's like, have you've
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: been busy? Think? I was like, this week we've been
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: like people want Bonds eye trees. The phone has been
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: off the hook. No way. Yeah, we could be getting
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: some of that bonds ie scratch. We definitely should be.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: We're getting nothing. Japan should be giving us money. Man,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: what's their monetary unit again? Is it still the end?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: The Japanese yen? We we need many in coming our way. Yeah,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: soon many yet, and they're gonna try to flash some
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: numbers that you know you'll be like, wow, that's a lot.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Just remember it's about a hundred yend to one dollars.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'll just ten. I'll let you negotiate that one. I
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: think it's ten now, Yeah, I remember, uh. And the
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: other night I turned on the television and Karate Kid
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: was on that just moments before the Wonderful Bonds I seen. Yeah,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I thought you took a picture of your television and
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I put it on Instagram, our instagram s, y s
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: K podcast. Yeah, we're trying to take more pictures that
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: what you do share ourselves. Yeah. Uh, but this isn't
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: about one. No, I've got one more shout out though. Um.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: There's a dude named Aaron Sits who remember when we
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: had our horror fiction contest years back, and we said
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: that anybody who was a part of it, if they
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: ever published anything, we give him a shout out in perpetuity.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: In perpetuity, and Aaron Sites published something. He published a
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: short story collection called The Andrew Jackson Stories, UM. And
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: he says that it was published by Lockjaw magazine. And
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: he said they're about Andrew Jackson about as much as
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Richard Broad against trout fishing in America's about trout fishing.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: That means nothing to me. Well, it wasn't really about
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: trout fishing. Um. But the the it's a slim little book.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: He sent it to us. I haven't read it yet,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: but he swears up and down that it's awesome. So
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and take his word for it.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: But congratulations Aaron Sites And if you want to go
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: get your hands on Andrew Jackson's Stories, go look it up,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: go to the Lockjaw magazine side I would imagine. So
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: that's done, and now we can talk about Controlled Burn. Yes,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: good band name, Control Burn, Yeah, depending on like maybe
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: if it was like a soft rock group. Yeah, yeah,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: they're like a eighties wedding band, Controlled Burn. Good evening
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: we were Controlled Burn. And this is by E. L
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: O right or Loggins and Messina. Yeah, I'm not dissing
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: l O. By the way, I love No Llo was great.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Did you see Kenny Loggins on documentary now Parter yeah,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: which episode is that? It was the two part one
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: about them? What were the what? What did uh? What
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: was their thing? Oh? They were a band? They were Um,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: oh that's right, that was the band. Yeah yeah, yeah,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: it was like the greatest band name ever. It was
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I want to say California Chrome, but that was that Racehorse.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what they were called. Was it Controlled Burn? No?
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: But that that was a good one. That two parter.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Great show. I love that show. Uh, there's a new
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: season coming out right, Uh they should Okay, so um
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: again we're talking about Control Burning, not a band, an
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: actual thing. Yeah. And this ties into our Wildfires episode yeah,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: which we did um years back. Yeah. Um, but Chuck,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I always loved the opportunity to talk about Oh here
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: we go and here's what now? Alright, so um, it
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: wasn't until about fourteen on one. The book by the way,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: if you're new to the show, Josh's long uh stated
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: favorite book so long, and you've talked about it a lot,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: at least fifty sixty times. And I would have read
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: it by now if you hadn't have talked about it
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: so much. You don't even need to now you know
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: the whole book so fourteen one. One of the premises
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: of it is that they're like, our understanding of UM,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Native America in North and Mezzo and South America prior
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: to Columbus coming over is like just totally wrong. There
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: were way more people, they were way more advanced then UM.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Anthropology and archaeology has long given them credit for the Internet.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Pretty much they did, UM. But it wasn't until like
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the early two thousands that this idea of the noble
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: savage who treaded lightly on the on the ecosystem, on
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the environment started to crumble, right and UM. We started
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: to realize that a lot of the features, what what
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the early explorers thought were natural features of North and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: South in Mesoamerica were um actually really well managed ecosystems,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: right um. And one of the ways that Native Americans
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: used or managed ecosystems was through fire. But again there
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: was this idea that Native Americans just had no idea
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: what they were doing with anything. So whenever archaeologists up
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: until about two thousand, two thousand one or two, the
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: late nineties maybe and it time they came across evidence
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: of like a fire and it seemed like the Native
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Americans had said it they just assumed that either the
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Native Americans had said it to amuse themselves because they're
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: big dummies, or because a campfire got out of control
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: because they're big dummies. But this is what they came
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: up with their like, oh, well, they clearly wanted to
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: set some fires for fun. They couldn't have possibly had
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: any any point to it. But then more and more
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: investigation has shown like, no, actually, not only did they
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: know what they were doing. Like, if you step back
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: and look at North America, the whole continent was a
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: managed set of ecosystems, and one of the ways they
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: did it was through fire. The other thing that interested
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: me too was depending on the the explorers and the
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Europeans and the settlers that came over to to North America. Um,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: some of them came and that was not anything new
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: to them. It turns out that using fire to manage
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: ecosystems is almost universal. Basically, yeah, I mean so of
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: the reasons they might have done it. Of course, these days,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: one of the main reasons we do it is to
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: prevent forest fires from spreading, which we'll get to. But
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: back then, uh, they would use it to improve the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: foraging conditions for free ranging cattle. Uh, increased visibility, access.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: There were all kinds of great reasons to burn things
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: in a controlled way. Yeah. Supposedly the early explorers didn't
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: really think about it, but the historians went back and
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: looked at it. That the explorers who used to say, like,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: you can't you can't get through the forests in North America.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: We're talking about swamp land like lands that wouldn't burn. Ye,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: but you could drive like a car through a forest
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: in like Ohio or something like that. Although there's swamps
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: in Ohio, a non swampy part of Ohio because of
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: the use of fire. The swamps in Ohio, Yeah, there were.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: They filled them in and built to ledo over it. So, uh,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: you were talking about the um when Europeans came upon
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the scene. Um, it's really interesting. I read this article
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: called the Historical Foundations of Prescribed Burning for Wildlife colon
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: a Southeastern Perspective Beautiful by A. Sydney Johnson and Philippe Hale,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and it was I think it was an academic paper
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: or something, but it started dawn on me when they
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: were talking about the founding of America. Why we ended
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: up like we ended up. Um, it just kind of
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: all came together for me. I love reading stuff like
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: that that connects dots that weren't connected before, and this
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: was a simple dot I should have connected before. But basically,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: in the northeast of the United States, it was largely
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: settled by people from the southern lowlands of England, people
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: that lived in cities and people that had not for
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: the most part, lived on farms and didn't have a
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: lot of experience with agriculture, and certainly not with prescribed burning,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: which is another name for a controlled burn. Uh. And
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: then in the south, particularly the southeast, we were more
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: populated by people from rural areas of the UK and
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Scotland and Ireland and western England. They had a lot
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: of experience with farming. And then I started to think, oh,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, that all just makes total sense. That's
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: why the Northeast became industrialized. Why the South we're a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: bunch of yokels. They were agrarian, and uh, it just
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: sort of it was very obvious thing, but it just
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: sort of like coalesced in my mind. Yeah. I knew
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: that part already, the industrialization aspects of it. But one
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: of the things that coalest for me was wondering how
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: much of the Civil War was driven by by rivalries
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: that go back to England and Scotland and Ireland rather
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: than you know, the just the context of North America
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: in the US. Absolutely, because I think for the most part,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: once people came over here, they did things like they
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: did them were there, which makes sense. Like Scarlett O'Hara's
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: father had Irish brogue. Remember, No, Yeah, her dad he had.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he didn't. I'm losing my mind. R. Well,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: it's been a while since i've seen that movie. H
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I believe it. But it makes sense.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: And like you said, maybe the attitudes came along with that.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe that carried over into how people felt about each
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: other pre Civil War. Yeah, I'll bet it. But the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: point of all this is that up north there was
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: fire suppression that was the key driver, right, Like they
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: would they would try to keep fires from breaking out
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: under any circumstances. Yeah, and don't get confused, because a
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: suppressing fire is a controlled burn. Fire. Suppression is putting
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: out fires. So maybe we should just say up north,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: they didn't think that starting fires on purpose was smart. Yeah,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: they were like and down south they said no, no, no,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: this is We've been doing it in England for years.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: They were like fire, Yeah, fire is a good way
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: to manage things. Yeah, and that's how the sation was divided,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: at least at first, and then the Civil War happened,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: and interestingly, UM the Yankees came down and said, hey,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: this old plantation, UM will make a really great hunting preserve,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to buy it now that I own
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: this enormous tract of land in the South, I'm a
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Yankee and we don't believe in fire, so I'm gonna
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: make sure no fire ever breaks out here, even though
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: everybody's been using UM fire techniques for generations. Yeah. And interestingly,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: to the fire techniques that the founders in the South
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: used where the same kind that the Native Americans in
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the area used, so like they're on the same page,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: thousands of miles apart, and basically came and kind of
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: started doing the same thing or kept doing the same
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: thing that Native Americans were doing. And what makes that
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: even more interesting is that UM It's using fire is
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: not universal to ecosystems like you. There's different techniques or
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: not using it at all, depending on the type of
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: ecosystem you're dealing with. Well, yeah, because in the in
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the UH Southern Lowlands, apparently the forests were like fire
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: sensitive hardwoods and spruce tree. So it's sort of depended
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: on what kind of forest you had, right, I guess
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: there's weren't as flammable, right, or inflammable, which is a
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: word I think we should just get rid of entirely. Inflammable. Yeah,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: it means the same thing, is flammable, but it sounds
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: like it means the opposite. It's just a stupid word. Really, Yeah, inflammable,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I've never heard of it. Well, that's great, that's all
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the more reason to get rid of it. That's crazy.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Inflammable means flammable. What's the point, man? What a dumb language.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: So um, the point of the whole thing is that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: fire is a natural feature of a living, thriving ecosystem.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: It's it's something humans terrified of, but on the on
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: the environmental level, on the ecological level, it's a necessary
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: component to keep any or most ecosystems healthy. Right, And
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: some groups of people understood this. The people who ended
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: up running the show after the Civil War did not
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: believe this, and it actually has had a very large
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: impact throughout the twentieth century in the United States, which
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: were just now overcoming. We can actually thank one guy
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: for changing the attitude toward fires and using them for
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: um wildfire management. And we'll talk about him right after this.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: All right, So you tease the name drop it did
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: right before the break uh in Well, there was there
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: was this one particular northern landowner that came down south
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and brought up a bunch of plantations. Name was Henry
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Bedell and he hated fire. Uh. Fire had burned his
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: favorite horse maybe you never know, Um, so he hated fire.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: He was appalled at the idea of burning land. And uh,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: but other people, you know, like we're saying, in the South,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: so now it's a good thing. So in uh they
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: commissioned the U. S. Bureau of Biological Survey, which was
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: precursor to the Fish and Wildlife Service, and uh it
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: was headed up at the time by guy named Herbert L. Stoddard,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: who was the name that you teased. And Stoddard actually
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the thing that kicked it off the most was that
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: these guys who um, who bought these huge plantations and
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: turn thement and preserves, they like to hunt quail, and um,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: they right, and they noticed that the Bob white quail
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: population was declining every year and they had no idea why.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So they brought Stoddard it in and Stoddard became a
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Bob White quail expert. Well he already was. Oh, he
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: was already that's why they brought him in. Yeah, he
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: was the He wrote a book about it, and um,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: this guy was awesome. He he helped found the literally
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: helped found a profession of wild life management. Right, the
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: whole field is like basically this guy. Yep, he wrote
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: like some legendary books that are still used today. Uh.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: He was like literally the first critic of industrialized agriculture.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: He's just this sort of champion and a Georgian, a
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: transplant to Georgia. Yeah, yeah, I think he things from Chicago,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: but did a lot of work here for sure. Yeah.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: So he Um, he starts looking into the quail situation
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: down here and he's like, well, you need to burn him.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: There's your problem. You guys have a woody undergrowth problem.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: And I looked into this and Bob white quail requires
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: some of the most complex habitats you've ever heard of. Right,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: So they thrive in areas where you've got what's called
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: woody cover, which are dense shrubbery that's like mostly woody.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: That they can use is what's called umkovie headquarters. It's
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: like little escaped patches, and they need them all over
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the place. But in addition to this, they also need
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: food sources, so they need like crops of a certain variety,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and then they also need some grassy areas. And they
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: need all this stuff in certain proportions. And if you
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: have the proportions right, which apparently they did, the quail
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: populations thrive. But if you have too much of one thing,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: then the coil populations diminished. And that one thing that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: had that had grown up was the woody undergrowth. And
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: the reason the woody undergrowth was allowed to grow up
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: was because the Yankees came in and stopped using fire.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: That's right, and that interesting. So it was all because
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: these rich guys, um, these rich industrialists who wanted to
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: hunt quail were like, war's all the quail, and they
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: hired the government to come look into it. And this
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: government guy came in and was like, oh, here's the problem.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: You guys need to set this on fire. But the
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: thing is is no one listened to him. Well, no,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: he had he had a few people that um I
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: mean they hired him for his expertise, so he had
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: a few people that got on board. But he fought
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: for many many years. UM. Like the history of control burning,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: it wasn't until post World War two is when it
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: started to catch on a little bit, and then in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties it became more commonplace. But it
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: wasn't until ninety one that the U. S. Forest Service
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: had their very first symposium on UH on prescribed burns,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: and that's what really turned the tide. But this was
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, and it took all the way till
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies for it to become like completely accepted
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: that's the right way to do things. And in the
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: meantime we had a lot of unnecessary wildfires well. And
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons too was apparently all the forestry
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: um workers in the South were from the North UH
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and so they had these bad experiences in England and
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: elsewhere with like devastating fires that kill people in wiped
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: out villages. And apparently they also had this German influence,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: like a protectionist influence from Germans in forestry school that
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: was taught to them that way, so they were they
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: were doing it all wrong. Well, one of the other
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: explanations I saw for why the forestry services like, no,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you can't burn down here is because um one I
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: guess one of the spoils of winning the Civil War
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: was the North came down and just clear cut the
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: south of its pine and they figured, well, the pine
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: forests have been so devastated for what for timber uh huh,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that we can't let any fire happen or else. No, no,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: this pine is never gonna recover, so we really can't
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: do any burning now. And yeah, so eventually everybody started
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: listening to Stoddard and um. Now we use fire um
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere in the United States. And there's a
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: couple of reasons to set fires on purpose. And the
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: coolest one is that if you set fires on purpose,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: you actually prevent wildfires down the down the line. Yeah.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: And and you know we're not talking about like completely
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: burning down every tree in the forest. Yeah, they're mainly
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: burning uh that that you know, the stuff that will
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: catch everything on fire, like the the understory, the underbrush,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the dead leaves, dead branches, stuff on the ground, right,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: and if you if you burn that on purpose, you
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: burn out the fuel for again a future out of
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: control wildfire. One of the other things you do is
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: you open up the canopy, right, So you're burning out
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: some trees, but for the most part, the older, more
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: established trees can survive. And since that canopies opened up,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: more sunlight can come through. And when more sunlight can
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: come through, you have smaller trees that can start to grow,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: so there's more reproduction. Actually, yeah, and and if you're
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: listening thinking, well, this all sounds great, but uh, doesn't
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: that release a ton of carbon emissions in the air
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: when you're burning things? And if you're burning thousands and
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: tens of thousands of acres a year on purpose, aren't
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you just adding to the problem? No, I was being KOI,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: But the answer is no. Well it depends, so it's
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: a little bit of both. I thought this was a
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: little strange for the way that this was parceled out.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: So on the one hand, in this article it says, nope,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Actually they've done studies and the the large established trees
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: that can survive a controlled burn actually lock in more
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: carbon um in the long run than uh, So the
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: control burn releases less than say, a wildfire that's burning
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: out a control that burns those trees and unlocks that carbon. Right.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: And then later on in the last like section of
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: this article, the authors like, Yeah, that really just depends
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: on what kind of forest you're talking about. In some forests,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make a difference at all. And and yes,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and in that case it's bad for the for the environment.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know about that last part. I'm the same.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: I just think it was weird. Well, I think it's
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: cool though, Like what you just said, the the large
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: trees capture that carbon, and if you burn off the
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: small stuff underneath what you said earlier, it's gonna open
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: up that canopy and let those big trees grow bigger.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: And uh, that's gonna you know, that's gonna be good
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: in the long run, short long term gain for a
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: short term carbon emission output. Right. So and then also
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: in addition to opening up that canopy allowing more sunlight
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: so reproduction can happen, there's actually they found, um some
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: species of trees that depend on fire to reproduce. In
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: chief among them is the giant sequoia in Yosemite. And
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: I think the sixties, Yeah, the sixties. Um, they were like,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the sequoias aren't reproducing. What's going on? And somebody, a
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: guy in aimed um. Dr Richard Hartsfeldt said, I think
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: it has to do with fire. We stopped doing fire,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: and we want to do fire, so let's do some fire.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: And they're like, shut up. Hearts felt you can't even
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: talk right. And he's like, I'm gonna go burn some
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: stuff and prove you guys wrong. So he started doing
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: some tests. He did, he'd do fire tests, and um,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: he found that when fire was applied to a sequoia forest,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the sequoia cones opened up and their seeds could germanate. Yeah,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: and the big daddies are very fire resistant. So they
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: were like, I'm a little hot underneath in the undercarriage,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: but it feels nice. But it feels pretty good, and
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna stand strong. But what I'm gonna do, like
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: you said, is I'm gonna open my cones. Uh. And
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the other thing it does is, you know, when you
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: drop seeds, if you have a woody understory and understories
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: another word for that under brush under what'd you call it? Uh?
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Under cover under coverage? What do you cover for a
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Bob White coil. That's what the Bob White coils call
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: it amongst themselves. All right. So imagine a seed dropping
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: from a pine cone from a hundred feet up and
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the ground is covered in leaves and sticks and things.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: That seed might fall on a pile of leaves six
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: inches deep and just sit there, just sit there and
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: be like I'm unfulfilled. A ka. It never makes contact
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: with the soil where it needs to be to establish roots, right,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: or even if it did, the sunlight is being blocked
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: out by that understory. And fire solves all those problems.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: It does. Because fire pops that pine cone open, the
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: seeds come out. Uh, they are in the newly burned ground,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: which has a lot of carbon fertilizer now in the
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: form of ashes and um, lots of sunlight coming through
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: because the understoy has been burned away. So fire is
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the greatest thing ever. Pretty amazing. Um. But again we
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: said before, it depends on the ecosystem, right. So, especially
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: out in California, they got kind of burned happy. They're like, oh, wait,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: fire can actually suppress wildfires. We have tons of wildfires
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: out here. We need to burn all the time. And
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: they started burning and burning and burning in southern California
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and it had zero impact on, um, diminishing wildfires, and
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: they couldn't figure out why. And they finally said, well,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: maybe we should study the ecosystem we're setting on fire
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: and see what's what. And they found that they really
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be burning the the southern California ecosystem to prevent wildfires.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: So that actually makes it worse in this case. Yeah,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: in southern California, they have what's called chaparral, and it's
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the uh I mean, if you've ever been to southern California,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: you know that. Um it looks lovely now in the
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: neighborhoods because people planted stuff everywhere, but the hillsides are
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: kind of gross. They're brown in there, forny and they're shrubby.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: It's like all tumbleweeds. Yeah, it's just it's not uh,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: it's just just sort of gross in those canyons. And
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: that's just my opinion. Yes, well that's chaparral, right, yeah, okay,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: and uh that chaparral. Uh, well, if you leave everything
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: to itself there, apparently it's super fire resistant, so every
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: like if you left it naturally, it would only catch
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: flame every hundred years or so, right, But they were
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: setting fire to this every few years um in order
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to try to prevent wildfires. And what they were ultimately
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: doing was burning the chaparral, which was naturally flame resistant, right,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: And in favor of the chaparral. What was since it
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: took a long time to grow back, the stuff that
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: was beating the chaparral out that could grow faster, was
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: actually very flammable. So they were promoting the growth of
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: wildfire fuel in southern California by burning these the chaparral.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Too much good stuff, it is, it's really interesting, all right. Well,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: let's take a break and we'll come back and talk
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: about a little bit about climate change and how that
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: factors in, and then how you can do your un
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: control burn all right. By the way, I was kidding,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: no one should try this ever ever. Ever, we should
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: have probably not broken for a minute or so before
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: you said that. I don't think anyone just paused and said,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm gonna run out because we didn't
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: teach him yet. Oh that's a good point. You should
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: never start a fire. Yeah, don start fires. Okay, I
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: got that out of the way. Uh, climate change is
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: having an impact on these wildfires. Um. From between nineteen
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: seventy nine, there's a season of fire, wildfire season, we
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: talked about it in our episode, when it's just more
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: likely to happen. In between nineteen the global fire season
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: increased by almost nineteen Yeah, which means like the fire
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: season grew longer around the world by that much, which
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: is bad. And at the rate of eight hundred and
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: sixty four million acres worldwide of wildfire that burned every year,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: which is an amazing number. Um. Apparently that emits more
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: than half the amount of carbon that fossil fuels put
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: out in the atmosphere. Yeah, so that's awful. That's a
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: tremendous amount, right. Yeah. And it's a feedback loop. It
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: is because um it the it contributes c O two
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: to the atmosphere, which promotes the greenhouse effect. Right. The
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: greenhouse effect creates drought conditions, It heats things up, it
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: lowers humidity. Um. And it becomes a vicious cycle, right
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: because when you have drought conditions, you have more dead
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: trees that provide more fuel for more wildfires, and more
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: wildfires put more c O two into the air, which
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: promotes the greenhouse effect and it gets worse and worse
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and worse. More wind to problem. Yeah. I was reading
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: about the Fort McMurray wildfire um up in Canada, and
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: apparently they just had some freak weather, the Fred McMurray wildfire. Yeah,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: he was like, I got no Fred Mury to um
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: he uh? When not? He the city for McMurray, like
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: a little outside town there. They think the fire started
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: somewhere out there. They're not sure what did it yet,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: but they had some freak weather where it was like
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: ninety one degrees. They still have like frozen lakes up
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: there right now. But the temperature was like one degrees,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: humidity was at like and winds right about forty five
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: miles an hour. So it was just ripe for a wildfire.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: And now it's up to like about four hundred fifty hectares,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: which is exactly a ton of acres. I think, Yeah, man, alright,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: so how do you start a controlled burn? How do
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: you do this carefully? Well, first of all, you want
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: to work for for a service or fishing game or Yeah,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: the the author of this article says, go to local authorities.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you can do this if you're not a
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: local authority, Yeah, but I guess you could. Like He
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: also mentions the landowner in the pine bearings of NuGen
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: that does his own control burns. Surely you have to
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: get you got permitted and if you're doing it yourself, right, Well, yeah,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: he's saying go to local authorities. But I was surprised that, Yeah,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: you can do it if you're not a local authority. Yeah.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that either. In fact, I'm still not
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: quite convinced at the very least you want to collaborate
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: closely with local authorities if you're not one, that's right, Okay,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: uh so yeah, I mean this beginning stuff is you know,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: get your permits, find out what the best time a year,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff. What you need to do is
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: just leave it to the people who do it best.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: But this is what they're gonna do. Um. But the
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: first thing that you want to do after you've gotten
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: all your equipment and all that good stuff is look
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: at the weather and pick out a good time to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: do it. Yeah. You want it kind of damp, Sure,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: you want the humidity above, low winds. Yeah, basically everything
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the opposite of the weather like it was in Fort
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: McMurray on May one. Yeah, less than eighty degrees ideally. Um.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: And then once you've got everything all set up and
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: you've got a great day picked out, um, you're going
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: to start a tiny little test fire in a corner. First,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: you want to wake up and have a complete breakfast.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Then you can go start your test fire. UM. Test
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: fire basically just look at it and say, how are
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: you gonna behave today? Yeah? Um, Well, even before you
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: set the test fire, you've got you want to plan
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: out your area that you want to burn, and in
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: the area, you want to identify natural fire breaks. These
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: are things like roads, bodies of water, that kind of stuff,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: things that the fire is not going to spread across,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: right ideally, And then you want to create even more
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: fire breaks around it where there aren't natural ones. You
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: want to plow and dig and cut and um basically
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: create an area to where the fire can't spread outside
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: of the place you want to contain it into. I
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: wonder if dropping an atom bomb on a wildfire woodwork
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: operation plash here. Sure, I don't think so. Probably, I
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: think that would make everything a lot worse. So, once
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: you've got all your fire breaks, both natural and the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: ones that you've just made yourself with your hands. You
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: want to start your first fire, called the backfire, and
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: the backfire is down wind. It's against that fire break,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: so you know it's only gonna be going in one direction. Um,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: it's against the wind, so it's not gonna be super fast,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna be able to control it. Like you're
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: kind of starting off nice and easy. Yeah, just don't
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: cut yourself out of the gate. Yeah, just take it
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: nice and easy, like you said. Then after you got
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: the backfire going, you create flank fires, one on each side,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: right and um, they are not necessarily going against the wind,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: so they're gonna burn a little bit faster. Yeah, they're
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: right angles to the wind. Um. And one of the
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: neat things about fire when you're creating a control burn
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: is the places you're burning first actually create fire breaks
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: themselves as they burn the fuel. Have you ever seen
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: the gods must be crazy too, didn't see the second one.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: There's like a bush fire and um, I can't remember.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: The main guy's name is awesome. Um. He saves his
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: like companions by um setting fire to the grass around
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: them so that the brush fire has nothing to burn
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: when it gets to them, so he creates a firebreak
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: basically by burning the area around him before the fire
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: gets there, so he controlled it himself. Was that good
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: the sequel? Sure? Yeah, yeah, both of them are really good.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: And I remember that when it came out, it was
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: like kind of one of the first, uh foreign sort
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: of indie movies that made a big dust up. I
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, they got a lot of attention.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: It's good to be crazy. Holds up, does it not?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: To check it out again? Uh? So where were we?
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: We've got our flank fires, we've got our back fires,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: were creating larger fire breaks. And then you want to
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: ignite the big daddy, the head fire. The head fire,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: it goes in the direction of the wind. It's it's
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: up wind, so it blows very quickly downward and spreads quick.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: But because you said it last, there's less fuel for
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: it to burn. It's gonna finish out the fire for
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: you pretty quick, but it's not gonna go beyond the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: areas that have already been burned because you just created
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: those fire breaks by burning them on the backfire and
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the flank fires. So after that happens, your fire should
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: be done and you can go home, just forget about it.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: After you set that head fire, just getting your truck
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: and go home. No, there's a little bit more. You
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: gotta stay there with my friend until afterward. And then
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: they call it mop up duty when you obviously put
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: out all the flame is completely with water, cut down
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: any little trees that are on fire, and just extinguish
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: everything and leave it a big, smoldering, nasty mess that
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is actually going to be good for the environment. And
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: you gotta tell everybody who drives by and shouts at
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: you for setting a fire that you're doing this because
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: it's better off in the long run. Say, the end
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: justifies the means pretty neat. Yeah. Another tip, don't wear
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: rubber clothing when you're part of a fire setting crew
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: because it can melt and stick to your skin. I
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: wonder this is something I didn't look into. I wonder
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: if the surely they're they're they're just wildfire fighting teams
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: that are doing this. Right, it's the same people, right,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I would guess. I would guess I would hope, because
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: the thing is is like, yes, you can, you can
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: be told how to set a fire. I think that's
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: probably the easy part, like figuring out how to adjust
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: when it starts to get out of control or doesn't
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: do what you think it's gonna do, or the weather
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: conditions change, or if it jumps that firebreak that you
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: think is big enough, Right, that's when I think you
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: need somebody who's like experienced it's gonna be. There should
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: be the same people doing this who know what they're doing.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it is. And if that's what you do,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: we want to hear from you, so shout out to us. Well, yeah,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I think we heard from some fire jumpers in the
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: last episode we did from the wildfire one, and that
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: was a good one to go back and listen to that.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Everybody do it now. If you want to learn more
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: about controlled burns, you can take those words in the
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: search part house to works dot com since they said
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: search parts time for listener, ma'am, I'm gonna call this
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: mind blown, not my mind listeners, pind Hey, guys, I
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: was listening to the Landfills episode and the most important
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: issue you brought up the song Powerhouse by the Raymond
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Scott Quintet. Josh had hummed a snippet and Chuck said
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: it was Leoney Tunes. That was a moment of cognitive
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: dissonance that rivaled almost anything I've suffered in my forty
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: one years, because Josh was actually humming a bit of
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: love Villa or Levia Strangiato by Rush, not some dumb
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: fifties ban I know that song. So this scot my
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: attention powerhouses from the thirties, and it was like an
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: orchestral right on the fifties band. This guy out of
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: his mind? Well maybe so. I couldn't believe you were
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: singing a part of one of my favorite songs by
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite bands and crediting someone else. As
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I watched the Raymond Scott video, though, the universe refocused,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: like when the candle holder resolves into faces, or the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Canadian flag is irreversibly changed into two angry guys pressing
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: their foreheads together case closed. Have you ever seen that
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the Canadian flag? No, and I've seen when that says
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: like Jesus loves you or something like that. I never
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: knew that the Canadian flag, if you look at a
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: certain way, looks like two guys. Uh. I went and
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: looked into sort of what about the man on the moon?
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: You ever seen that? I don't know, But well then
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: you haven't. Okay, you would know. Yeah, it's it's kind
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: of like, yeah, I guess I can see that. It's
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: like the arrow and the FedEx logo, like once you
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: see it, you can't unsee it unless you really want to,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: and then you can't. Okay, I don't see what this
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: guy is talking about with the Canadian flag. Well, you
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: have to type in Canadian flag faces and then someone
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: will have It's a bit of a stretch. If you
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: ask me, have you ever seen any Sister Wendy stuff. No, Um,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: she is a nun who um it just understands art
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: and art history like no one else on the planet.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: And she had like a PBS show for a little while,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: and she just she would just point out things in
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: art that you just never think to look for, like
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: in the negative space, like the sometimes but also more
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: like um, like the shadows surrounding a family and being
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: it makes him look isolate and you're like, oh, yeah,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't really put my finger on that or whatever.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: She's just got this really great knack for explaining art
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: and really interesting way. And I think it's online for free. Alrighty,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: sorry about that. Now that's all right, So where are
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: we Canadian Flag too angry. Guys, thanks for broadening my
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: understanding of one of the first Rush songs I learned
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to play on drums and then I found this on
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: song facts dot com and it sounds credible. Apparently this
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: was an issue, and Rush did not give credit to
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Scott for using Powerhouse. By the time Raymond Scott's publisher
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: notified the band's management of the infringement, the statute of
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: limitations had expired of the challenge, but rusha's management, out
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: of deference to Mr or Mrs Scott uh and being
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: the class act that they are, offered a one time
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: penance payment, feeling it was the ethical thing to do
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: all involved. We're happy with the resolution and Rush has
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: no further financial obligations under the story. I know under
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: the settlement they were required not required to uh accord
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Raymond Scott partial songwriting credit on the Beast. So apparently
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Powerhouse and rushes Labilla strangeata or similar and they nicked
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: it from there. Huh. Never knew I didn't either, Uh.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: And that is uh. From Ken Wrinker in Colorado Springs.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Ken, and he says best to Jerry
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: in the game. Jerry says thanks. I think yeah, uh, Ken,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: that was awesome. I take back that you're out of
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: your mind. You're interesting instead, how about that? Uh. If
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with us, you can
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: tweek to us as by Eska Podcast. You can join
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram as by Eska podcast too. You can
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: join us on Facebook dot com h slash stuff you
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Should Know. You can send us an email to stuff
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has always
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: joined us at our home on the web, Stuff you
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com