Latest / Skin Anarchy / Jessica Cruel, Editor in Chief of allure Magazine

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Jessica Cruel, Editor in Chief of allure Magazine · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Diablo 4 has arrived.
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• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: I am super excited because I am going to start doing this little ritual from now on where I'm gonna every Friday tell you guys my Friday favorites from that week, and they might just be repeats for months because I'm not lying.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: When I love skincare, I absolutely love it, and I ended up ended up using it for like months and months.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: So um just to get started, uh before any of that, I wanted to actually mention to everybody that I will be hosting a wonderful masterclass with the iconic and absolutely brilliant Jan Marini.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she is just truly the epitome of a skin health expert and a true visionary and a teacher, and just I can't wait to have her on.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, we're gonna be doing a five-part masterclass with Jan, and she's gonna be walking all of us through the most common pathologies that we all experience with skin and skin health.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, the first episode is gonna be focused on acne, and Jan is gonna really break it down so that it's so much easier for everyone to understand.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then also, you know, when we understand things, we're able to really uh find the solution to that problem.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope you guys tune in for every single one of those episodes.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna be amazing.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm super excited for our first masterclass with someone so, so wonderful.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but going back to the products, so my go-to serum right now, which all of you already know, is Lulove.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Hands down.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my entire team here at Skin Care Anarchy.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: We are all obsessed with Lulove, we're all using it.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: We actually share stories of progress.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, the testimonials range from things like, oh, you know, it just makes my skin so much smoother and my makeup goes on better all the way to wow, you know, it really got rid of my hyperpigmentation after just two weeks of using it.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's genuinely the feedback that we're all giving each other constantly about this serum.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I don't know about you guys, but results really do speak for themselves, um, especially in an industry where things are so experimental sometimes, and you know, you know, the whole jazz, you guys.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, Lulove is a really phenomenal product.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the second step that I use after Lulav is another uh big favorite of mine.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this product, like I've been really into these multi-use products because they're just so much better, and I find them to be just way more nourishing for my skin.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: So the second product is called Sub Z, and it's by the brand Supper Club Skincare.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I also featured um that brand recently on our Instagram, and you guys, it's phenomenal.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: The founder Ziad has this amazing vision with Sub Z, where again, just like love, it's like a small batch um, you know, preparation of the of the actual product, and um Sub Z actually literally translates into greens.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know what Ziad has done here is take the most nutrient-rich botanicals and herbs and just all the amazing things that come from that region of the world um, you know, where he's originally from, which is um around the Middle East region, around the same area, really what I was mentioning to you guys about love, where you know the soil is just very fertile and you have a lot of greenery and a lot of amazing plants.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so um what Zia did is just he created this beautiful, you know, mixture of um an oil-based product.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, after I put on my Lulove serum, I usually take about three drops of Sub Z and I rub it between my hands at night, and then you know, I just stand there for a minute, not gonna lie, and I inhale and it just feels so relaxing.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um after recentering, I just pat it into my skin, and I don't even need a moisturizer, I go straight to bed and I wake up with the kind of skin I want, which is soft, it's um, you know, it's plumped up, I can put on makeup if I want, leave it off if I want, just go with the sunscreen.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just it's great.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's been working so well for me.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, right now, if I could really recommend like two hallmark skincare products to you guys, it would definitely be the serum and oil combo, which is just out of this world.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the last brand I want to mention is the Heart Company and they're phenomenal fragrances.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: I recently hosted them on the show.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure a lot of you caught that episode, but this is such a unique brand, you guys.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: They are um basically providing, you know, the beauty community with these just top-of-the-line fragrances that have been crafted in the most, you know, the best of the best fragrance fragrance houses of Europe.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, no stone left unturned when it came to creating these fragrances.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're very light, they're very lairable, um, you know, there's they're named after emotions.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just such, it's it's a very cool experience when you're using the products because you know, if you bit you pick up the bottle of positivity, which is my favorite scent, and you're just you know, like subconsciously you just have it in your hand, it really does like light up your day.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: It really does.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even lying.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, another one's called happiness, and it's just like you know, it's such a cool way to like remind yourself throughout the day, like you know, just smile a little bit, be a little bit more positive.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, I just I love it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: I love the whole concept of the brand.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the bottom line is quality speaks, and this is literally one of the most quality fragrance lines I've ever tried.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely check them out.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Their storefront is on Amazon Beauty.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: So if you go onto Amazon and type in the Heart Company fragrances, they'll pop right up, and you can go to their Amazon store and shop all of the different scents.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I really highly recommend start off with positivity.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, also, happiness is amazing, and me time is like a must-have for unwinding at night and just getting ready to journal or like you know, just unwind from the day.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope you guys like my suggestions for this Friday, and I will be back next week with some more.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: But stay tuned for this episode.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's a really good one, and I hope you guys love it.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, guys! Welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Today is a very, very, very simple episode.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I am so thrilled and very soft and extremely excited.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: All the positive words I can come up with.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the one and only editor-in-chief of Allure magazine, Jessica Krull.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Jess.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited you're here.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that you're Starstruke over Allure means that we're automatically gonna get along.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be bad spirits.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: If anyone isn't Starstruk over Allure, I just I don't get it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I can't relate.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, I'm a huge fan and I'm uh so excited to talk to you because obviously, you know, you are really at the helm of this, and I and I can't wait to hear about your career and your, you know, all of the experience that's led up to this.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know that you had mentioned before the episode started that um your six month anniversary is coming up uh with the magazine.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to get started um for us and tell us everything in your career that led up to this.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so six months as editor-in-chief, but I was with the brand a little bit actually before I started as editor-in-chief.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm here.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Did I cut out?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you cut out it just a little bit, sorry.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: My apologies, I'll fix I'll fix that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was at um Allure a little bit before I started as editor-in-chief as the content director and then the features director.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I started my career doing a lot of internships.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, working in beauty closets, at Self and Essence magazines, and also working for websites, local places.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think I did a total of six internships before I got my first full-time paying job with benefits.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I learned a lot during that time.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: I started my career as a uh uh excuse me.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: I started my career as an editor assistant at Pop Sugar, which was a really great experience because it's a small shop.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a very much so startup type environment, which means I got to do so many different things.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a really great editor there that really helped me hone my writing style.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And from there I went to Self magazine, so it's another common mask publication.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Work there as a beauty editor and really honed into my fact-checking and reporting skills, you know, because self really has a strong health background and and wellness um to it.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went to refinery for about a a year and a half, where I always tell people I work with people who are far cooler than I was.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm gonna tell Simone Oliver that I just had her on the show.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, Simone and I um we didn't work there at the same time, but I'm very familiar with Simone's work, love her.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a really great experience to learn how to mentor people.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I managed a team there or part of a team there.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And also being with the cool kids was a lot of fun.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was another smaller operation.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then I came to Allure and I did the features director job, the content director job, and then six months ago I was promoted to energy.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, I mean, I I love that like you know, every time I do an editorial um interview, Jess, I I'm always so blown away because it's like the amount of internships and the amount of hustle it takes to get all of the experience is just it's beyond me.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like it blows my mind, you know.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: So like when you say things like I did six internships and I, you know, like I went through all this and I learned all the angles, like that's phenomenal to me.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I actually uh, you know, would love for you if possible to give like any pointers to like budding writers, because I know it's very hard to find your style.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: As I'm sure, like, you know, most writers and journalists know, like it's it's a very hard journey.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, especially with beauty editorial, like how was that for you?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like that whole um process of finding your style and finding out like how you wanted to approach the editorial aspect um in this in the space.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all the internships in back then it was very common, but and back then internships were unpaid, also.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I want to mention.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So things have definitely changed a lot for the better since I had all those internships, but each internship taught me something new.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: My first internship was at a small local uh Atlanta magazine magazine called Skirt Magazine, and I'm from Florida, I'm from Georgia, so it was like I stayed at my uncle's house all summer, and I commuted to downtown Atlanta for this local magazine.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And funny enough, my first celebrity interview was Janelle Monet because Janelle Monet was really in the underground Atlanta college scene performing, and I'll never forget that.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I interviewed her again a few years later when she got like a cover girl contract.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: But working with these editors in my internships is how I really started to learn how to write.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I actually went to school for journalism, um, multimedia journalism, which included like coding websites, and I remember I had to shoot a mini documentary.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I I was like lugging a camera around, and I was in the J School basement late at night using Final Cut Pro to edit video.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, I don't do any of that now.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it all bubbles up in what I'm saying.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'll be like, I'll dust off my Final Cut Pro skills.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, this button maybe will break the whole thing, but I will try it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you know, yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So writing, having great editors, right?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are able to hone their style, and and this happened for me by just people paying attention.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I my first editor at Pop Sugar, Annie Tomlin, I always tell this story that even on even though we work for websites, she took the time to print out my stories and mark them up with like red pen.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that was so helpful because when we do the print magazine, we do that sort of process.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like three people read the story before it well, it's more like six people read the story, but so many people read the story before it goes out in our print magazine, and as the story morphs, that original writer is able to see how their story can change for the better, and then they start better next time.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the sort of thing that even though the web is a much quicker pace, it's something that I hope that we can maintain, maybe not for every story, but for some of the bigger stories, so that people can learn to find their style.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I think this is such an interesting point you bring up because no joke, you know, I don't know.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I'm sure it's like way more, you know, complicated on the on the editorial side because you guys are always dealing with like, you know, articles and writing and stuff, but I just know from my end, like uh, you know, when my PI is like for research, right?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like they would start editing things instead of paper, they would start using like computers, like Word and like track changes and stuff.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, yo, I don't even know what you changed.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know, you know, I was I was so lost, like just as a student.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I can imagine like there's so many hurdles that come with this, like I guess, like you were explaining, like that visual aspect of like really seeing a story mold into what it's supposed to be.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a that's a really brilliant point that you brought up.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it just makes me misprint even more, you know.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's it's a craft.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think the thing that I allure is actually one of the first places I worked that had a print publication, or the first place I worked that had a print publication.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And being able to really hone the craft of it because I spent the majority of my career in digital and seeing how you know right now it's March, but we're working on our uh June, July, and August issues.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just had a meeting this morning about August.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that means we are to take our time and really think about what's right and uh the right people to talk to and things like that.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's something that I think is very rare in this digital age and something that's so important to protect.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that shows very easily too with Allure because honestly, you know, um, just as a consumer, just I can honestly say, like, you know, I I was telling everybody before the show, like I still have I I get the print magazine and I absolutely love it and I dive into it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like it was, you know, when I was a teenager with any other uh print publication, but then also with allure's digital content, I find it to be so much easier to navigate.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no joke, because it's like the stories are to the point and they're digestible, you know.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not like okay, well, I've got 15 dermatologists like referenced here, you know, and it's like I don't know what the, you know, like it's never that like haziness, if if you know what I mean, like in terms of like understanding as a consumer, like what is the real reporting happening here.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think Allure is like, you know, um, you run a tight ship, you know, you you run a really, really nice, you know, tight ship there because you guys are doing like really great work.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's wonderful.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the like the way every article is presented.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I am just trying to keep the tradition alive.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there are a lot of people that help me keep the ship tight, and they they've they are amazing at their job.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I will say we have a team of journalists that uh know the beauty industry in and out and have been working in it for 30 years, some of them.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what makes Allure great.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, I love that, and honestly, you know, uh Jessica, I was so excited to uh for this interview also because I noticed uh recently I was talking to I messaged uh Diana Mazzone um because she was one of the first editors that agreed to come onto the show.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um back then, you know, I that was huge for me because I I had never spoken to an Allure editor, and I um I saw her recent piece on like um on Deepika Patacone, who's the Bollywood uh actress, and I was like, of course Allure would cover this, you know?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I like I remember like being an Indian American woman and like sitting there and like seeing this feature and like I love her, you know, like I really enjoy her movies, and I I've watched like every Bollywood film and to see her in a mainstream US beauty magazine, you know, I mean the beauty magazine, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was huge for me as an Indian American woman.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I would I even like messaged Diana and I was like, I love you guys, I love Allure, like you guys just you get it, you know, like it's it's the team and and the people that work there.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you guys are actively looking for innovative ways to bring in more culture, more diversity, more inclusivity, you know what I mean?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: It just shows like the extra mile that your journalists go, you know, to really kind of connect with their audience.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: It really, really shows.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And really the goal that I had when I started this job, you know, as a black woman, is to make sure that people who have in the past been considered others, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: People who are of color, people who have more melanin, are seeing themselves and having that same experience that you had by being able to say, Oh my goodness, this is someone that I have always loved, always followed, and their story, which is similar to my story, is being told at this large platform.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other thing that makes this issue that you're speaking about, which is our global beauty issue, so special is that Deepaka is surrounded by other content that features South Asian culture.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we did a story going to deep into coal and the history of it and you know the religious significance of it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: We went deep into um we talked to Theresa Chandran, who's in the new epic season of Bridgerton.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So she is an immigrant in London, and we got to talk to her about how she maintains her Indian culture in London because there's a great uh Indian community there.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, it's about not only uh covering these people, but not making it a one-off thing.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Saying, how can we surround these stories with other stories that make a person feel wholly seen and tokenized in any way?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, oh my gosh, I love you for saying that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I really love that you brought that up because here's the thing, you know, I'm gonna be very blunt and honest, I always am, but like for everyone listening, like, like, you know, I love I I I love my culture, like my, you know, well, I guess my culture is both cultures, right?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: American and uh Indian culture, but like I I grew up in Indian culture at home.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I watched, like I said, all those Bollywood movies.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember growing up in America, and I would relate to like certain, you know, just certain actresses or you know, models or whoever you really look up to.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I used to always think like every time they come over into the Western publication world and into the Western features, it's so different, right?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like you can't relate with them anymore.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And like I, you know, that I don't want to keep like harping on this, but when I saw that post about Deepika, I was so excited because it felt like it was still her and I felt like I still connected with her, but here she is in a very familiar space for me as a consumer because I'm a you know, I'm a regular reader of Allure and to see her face there, it felt like, oh my gosh, yeah, I fit in.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like for like for the first time, like I feel represented.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like, yeah, like it felt like home, you know?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so that feeling is very, very hard to like, you know, not only produce, but reproduce or yeah, and and make that happen.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I really commend your whole team.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it means a lot to us.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know as for me as an Indian American woman, that means a lot, like that moment.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's phenomenal.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and part of that allow part of what allows us to do that is signing on the right people behind the scenes too, not only on our staff, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: But in addition, the writers that we work with.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we got a chance to work with so many um international writers for this issue and the makeup artists on set and the photographers, like that also contributes to the telling of that story.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Deeper goes shot in Mumbai.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that lens, you know, make sure that we are maintaining that important piece of the Indian culture when we do things like this.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I you know, I actually wanna I want to talk to you about culture a little bit more because I think like you're literally the perfect person for this conversation.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I all I you know, lately I've been hearing a lot about how, you know, it's not so much like cultural appropriation anymore, if you know what I mean, like the buzzwords.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, like I'm hearing from just our listeners or anyone who like chimes in, it's like, well, my culture's there, but I just feel like it's just another foreign, you know, like they people aren't relating to what they're seeing.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I let me give you an example.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to a friend of mine, she is Latin, you know, she's a Latin uh American woman, and she was speaking just about, you know, how just Latin beauty and you know everything is.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: like portrayed these days and she said I don't even feel like I know what Latin beauty is.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like she was like she was like, I don't even feel like I belong in that like that niche of beauty.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this brings me back to a conversation I was having um with Sherry Javer about the whole like Indian beauty movement thing.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of brands, especially in skincare, I'm sure you know, you of all people have noticed there's a lot of like uh Indian American founders now, you know, that are coming up with these Ayurvedic based brands or, you know, uh Eastern philosophy, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: To like skin health.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I just wonder because it's like, you know, we have these movements that are so uh founded on like cultural awareness, but then somehow they always get twisted into like I guess cultural appropriation.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like what is your what's your view on that like overall as as you know someone so high up in the editorial world and who's probably seen this like you know time and time again.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like what's your what's your viewpoint on that?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think what happens oftentimes is you have the beauty culture that we experience at home, right?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: For me as a black woman that's you know my mom putting out the the hot comb on on Saturday nights and like frying the mess out of my hair in the kitchen, right?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that a lot of other black women can relate to.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: But when you take that same story and try to tell it to an audience that is large and more diverse, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or even an audience that is majority white for example it's oftentimes translated or transcribed in a way that is then explained to death.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's then watered down a little bit and it's like well now it's not the same.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes that happens for a lot of different reasons right you want that person to get a sense to understand right there are some terms that are very much so indicative to that original community that that other new group that is now hearing about it won't understand.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so things get like okay well now we need to change this word we need to change like now we need to describe what a hot comb is it's like what what now we have to describe what a hot comb is yeah we lost every black person and once we got to that you know once we added that every black person stopped reading you know so I think it's about these this give and take of how much do we share our cultural stories as education also.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know that's something I think a lot about when we created a platform called the Melanin Edit which we uh launched last year in April it's kind of a destination for those of highly made melanated skin.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So black women but also Latinx women and South Asian women who have darker skin tones just you know every community you think experiences colorism.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah we wanted to really create a place where we we didn't have to do that where we don't have to do any explaining you know when we say TWA we trust you know what it is you we trust that you have the language and we're all speaking the same language because we all have similar experiences when it comes to this otherness and finding the unity in that and I think that's what we have to do more of is we have to really take ourselves you know take ourselves into a specific place and say this story is for the audience we want to reach and so therefore we're gonna make it for them by them we're gonna go into the actual kitchens and have someone who's from that culture photograph it so it feels not watered down.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right now one thing you had mentioned earlier was about like you know who you're putting behind the scenes of these stories right like who are the writers who are the journalists and and you were mentioning how you have to be you know very particular about that.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love to hear your um personal theory and process that you go through when you're um looking for the right journalist for a piece or you know um how how you go about that because I'm sure that's difficult to find the perfect writer for an idea or you know a topic oftentimes you know we're very fortunate to have a lot of people pitch their ideas to us.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes an idea comes to us versus us hunting but other times we have ideas and we say well one who's the expert yeah who's the person the writer who's gonna have that expertise or at least know the right experts so that we get the facts that we need.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because the thing that is true of Allure is that we're one beauty publication one of the very few that still have a very thorough fact checking team that go through um some of our mediator stories and make sure that we are telling the truth and that everything is accurate.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right thing I ask myself oftentimes and something that's so important in this age is voice.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah no voice is everything I mean it's like the right voice too you know like the right voices we have a lot there's yeah I think you're about to say there's so many voices out there that you want to get ones that are credible but also interesting to read you know I think someone who has someone to something to say that's different than what's out there is really important.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And someone who's gonna weave a tale that's entertaining to read because what we do is still entertainment on some level it's informational but it's also entertaining.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: No it's it's more than well here's the thing it's more than entertaining and honestly going back to the hot comb reference I actually want to tell you this because it's so relevant to this and I it it's actually interesting because I just remembered this happened.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was um I remember like you know early on when I had met my fiance's daughter like she you know she's half African American half um Latin and she or half Puerto Rican I should say and her hair was something like as a young woman like she didn't understand you know because she had curly hair but it was always getting that frizz and it was like you know she was self-conscious about it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember like you know her and I having this conversation about like well how should I brush my hair and I remember immediately going on to Allure and being like I literally typed into Google allure best hairbrushes for curly hair you know for like like something I I typed something like buzzwords right and immediately I found an article that was like the like it had like three or four different uh brush types and I looked an up and I ended up ordering one and ended up being phenomenal.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like it changed her the whole way she did her hair.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it blew my mind because I was like how how are people just you know so lost in such a vast industry that has so many products but you know they don't even know where to go and like find these products.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something I'm very curious about um in terms of like these because something like the right hairbrush for a specific type of hair that's huge.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's more than just a beauty product that's a cultural product.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know that and being able to deliver those options and those like um you know just suggestions to consumers like I mean that that's huge.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I just want to you know I I want your take on that like what is what is that balance and and what is the research behind that that goes into like uh coming up with the suggestions that Allure puts out yes we have a whole team of people whose job it is to well essentially our entire team's job is to try products we are market editors at heart and we have best of beauty which is one of our giant temples the red seal is on you know hundreds of products out there and I think people don't believe me when I say like we try thousands of products not only throughout the year but in the best of beauty time period and so when we are giving a person recommendation like the one you just mentioned best hair brush for curly hair it's because myself I have curly hair curly coily hair jihan forbes on our team has curly coily hair you know we have another editor who has like we have about four editors have curly hair that's our squad of people trying brushes and not to mention it's our job to try brushes so we get brushes sent to us I think about have about five brushes in my rotation just right now that I use on my hair.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so if someone's doing a that brush story they'll usually slack that group of people and say hey what are the brushes that you love and like oh this one because this this this oh and I then I use this one for that that and that's how you get that story and it's basically like a group chat for people who are just really in tune with what's hot that's coming out but also things that have been out for a while.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: No I mean that makes sense and I I'm glad to hear that that you you know you guys are so like it's almost like it's a huge team but it's like so you guys are close knit and well organized so you know exactly who needs to try what I like that I like you know it's like a safety blanket for me as a consumer to know uh to know that's the process.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know I and I'm I'm actually curious because you know with magazines and publications like you know allure and even Self and you know some of the other magazines you had mentioned in terms of your prior experience um refinery like these these publications I think um they they become so well rounded because there's this really nice blending of like pop culture and like beauty and fashion and it's like almost like a seamless thing, right?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it's like it it all blends together very easily for a consumer to like really pick up on like maybe five different products that are from like different industries, you could say and I don't see a lot of publications able to do that.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's either like you know fashion or beauty or you know whatever right so like what is um I I want to ask you like what are some of the challenges of that like in terms of tying in like you know other I guess industries into a conversation maybe there's an article you know about one thing but you really want to tie in like a pop culture uh you know trend that's going on at the time like how does that work in terms of just putting that together well a part of our editors' jobs is staying on the pulse of things just in general but one thing that I often task my staff um with keeping an eye on are the passions that they have outside of work and how those connect to beauty.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk a lot about what I like to call microcommunities and these communities are more coming together over a shared interest.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think of a group of people like people who love anime right that's a group of very devoted people who love anime and as someone who used to draw anime back in high school I understand um that kind of group of people and so I think those people also love beauty.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what kind of beauty would they like?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how you get a story that's super well rounded some other communities which I are people who love video games.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: People who have like I am I am gamer trick number one I'm telling you I love video games yeah whole totally relate.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right so you like video games and you like beauty and there's you know a particular type of beauty that might appeal there's a particular type of uh pop culture reference or or influencers that might appeal to someone like you who likes video games but also likes beauty.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when we think about creating this content in a holistic 360 way we think a lot about these microcommunities and how we can serve them but also how we can engage with them right because you know video gamers you know I don't know if you're on Twitch or not but they're very they're always commenting they're always liking they're always conversing in sci groups and that's one thing that's super powerful right now.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: I always say like the Facebook group is back in it's just gone to other platforms and that is how this new digital culture and social media culture moves.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: That is so interesting that you brought that up actually like I feel like you're the first like editorial guest I've had that's actually acknowledged that is this like these small like little areas or pockets of like the beauty consumer community.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's like like the gamer chicks or the girls who love chess or you know whatever you know whatever your cup of tea is but it that's really interesting because there was a brand I don't remember the founder but she was like really big on Twitch like a streamer you know like a um she was a streamer for I think an MMO game and she was finding this beauty brand and I remember um reaching out to her like you know how you send over like I sent like a cold pitch you know just trying to get her on the show and I found myself so confused on how to approach this woman even though I'm also a gamer because it it was now in this realm of like beauty, right?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was like it wasn't just about like oh I'm reaching out to another gamer.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was about like okay now I'm reaching out to a gamer who has a beauty brand.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like have you ever been in those situations where you're like you're interviewing somebody or you're you know you're profiling somebody that's like I don't know it's just it's very hard to kind of get into their person and just figure out like what is the essence of what they're trying to create like what is how is that?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because I am I I can imagine how difficult that would be I'm sorry can you repeat that question?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah sorry I I can I'm very like scatterbrained sometimes so I apologize.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: But um my my question was basically um you know when you have like for example um you know a celebrity or a guest or founder that you really want to feature you know and they are um maybe known for one thing so the example I gave was this individual was a gamer right but she's not like but now she has a beauty brand so it's like two opposite things almost right because you think of gaming you think of guys and you know like call of duty and like shooting and stuff but then you think of like beauty and it's more delicate and stuff.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you approach like founders or or or personalities that are like in different areas or industries and like trying to find what their vision for beauty is.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: You see what I'm saying?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like like yeah well I think first of all that Twitch one is a perfect example because I think the beautiful thing about allure is that we have very a lot of different platforms most brands do we have a print publication we have a website we have social media on all those social media platforms we also have a box of subscription box and we have a store and so one thing whenever we think about talent or someone or beauty brand or any person we're gonna cover on allure we think about where's the best place to cover them.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: If we were getting that Twitch founder the best place to do something with them is on Twitch where they're native where they're well known where that audience is going to recognize them.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so we think a lot about not necessarily the content of it all right because content is still the same in the sense of why'd you find your found your brand what are you hoping for beauty what's different differentiates your products things like that.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: But the platform might be the thing that's changing and the format of how we speak to them might change to fit that platform.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so important in this day and age when you have so many places to consume content and everyone has a different perspective on what's most native to them right most people read their phones.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: They read stories on their phones.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: So when we look at our website design we're like well what is it going to look like on the phone?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because everyone reads on their phone.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: So some things that we we definitely think about.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and that makes sense.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for answering that I know it's kind of like a convoluted question but I yeah it makes sense it makes total sense what you're saying.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you know it's like a a game basketball game or a football game you know you go to the it people are more comfortable when they're you know at home in their home state.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes sense you know you and I and I like that that's something that allure is you know really mindful of I think that that's very important in good journalism is to make sure that the person you're reporting on is comfortable and actually tells you the truth because I'm not gonna lie you know honestly just gonna I I look at some of these like articles that come out nothing by Allure by the way nothing refinery or any of these great publications but some some articles I read and I'm like oh my gosh like I like is this made up you know what I mean like I just get so like I get so confused because I'm like it just sounds so outlandish or it just doesn't it it's so hard to relate to so you know it makes me wonder like how relevant are magazines at this point.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: But then like you know we it you know what I'm trying to say is there's like a whole group of magazines that I feel like are not reporting the right way but then there's like four or five of you guys that are doing it perfectly.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: So how is that whole scene right now in the editorial world?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like you know you're you're at the head of the top beauty publication, you know, in in my opinion and I think in a lot of so how is that in terms of the pressure in terms of the you know like making sure that you're really at the cutting edge of reporting the the most latest things like what's that whole experience like for you like on a day-to-day basis?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah this world moves fast that's the thing that is hard and I think with the rise of TikTok it's something we talk a lot about a lot is there's so much misinformation out there because this younger generation doesn't know who's an expert and who's not they can't look at someone and say oh this person's a dermatologist and went to school so therefore I could probably believe what they say but this person is just someone who started a blog about skincare two years ago and maybe doesn't have like any official information to be giving me facts.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: And things go viral that are wrong.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think Allure's place is always that being that person who's like hey you know we talked to the dermatologist and translation you know we're gonna translate this for you and here's what you need to know to be you know as safe as you can but also just as factual as you can and there's always gonna be a role for that because the more and more I mean not to get too political but the climate for journalism right now is just so everyone is creating content that no one is vetting right that there's no and it's not necessarily it's not even I'm not saying he's even from journalists.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying it's from you know Jamila down the street.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know like it's like everyone's creating content and people taking this podcast podcast Jessica like honestly like it's there's some podcasts that I listen to where I'm like what the hell are you guys talking about?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean like that's not even real so yeah I I hear you everyone's doing it everyone's doing it so really just wanting to figure out um the right way to still do the same thing that we've always done.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Give people really great information that is vetted and factual and you know dermatologist approved and things like that and being that translator for every community so that there's no fear mongering, there's no misinformation you know we're all about debunking the BS.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so how is how has that been in terms of like get taking a more like science and fact based route and the beauty reporting that you guys do?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like how has that been for the magazine overall?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like it would be for me for skincare anarchy I can honestly tell you which is like on a way smaller scale you know what I mean it's just trying to report just science and facts like you know even when I just do it with skincare I get a lot of people who send me like you know they'll they'll try to rebuttal what I've said and then I have to send them like a publication you know or like citation or like a reference something and it's like no I do know what I'm talking about.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: So how is that like in terms of uh really kind of I don't know I guess delivering that much that kind of information um when nobody else was really doing it because I feel like the the bandwagon of let's talk about the science of beauty it just now started with a lot of different publications whereas I know allure has been like ahead of the game with that for a long time us being ahead of the game has been really helped us uh we have built an amazing community of cosmetic chemists, dermatologists, uh experts in general in this industry, RD experts at different companies that help us to make sure that we're getting information from several different sources.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know just classic journalism things that we uphold like talking to multiple sources and talking to doctors and fact checking like we mentioned before those things help us similar to yourself always have that well you know this is coming from this study and so and so and so we also try to be very honest about things that aren't fully developed.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we get the information and you know we want to cover it and we say this is going to be developing right now there's not a lot of information but we thought that you know the little bit that we had was important for to give you now so it's about being flexible in the sense of as I said this world moves so fast that sometimes things get get ahead of the game before the science is even out there.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about having an amazing team of not only editors but also professionals and experts in this industry that we have on speed dial um that help us make sure that we're getting all the stuff right even the FDA right we talk to them pretty often.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah no the FDA is huge I remember I interviewed a brand I brought up the FDA and their PR company like freaked out and was like Ecto we can't publish this you said something about the FDA I'm like yeah but I didn't say anything bad.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: So uh hopefully you know It's not like that when you mention the FDA, because I I I don't know what the whole deal with that was, but you know, that's great that you guys actually talked to the FDA.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really great thing.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why like skincare companies and brands are not so very much very open from what I've seen in terms of like involving the FDA and really getting things like I guess like officially cleared, right?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like in terms of just skin health products.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Legally, they don't have to.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: The FDA um is not in charge of betting any cosmetics and cosmetic products.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: The only products that they have any say over are sunscreens.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: So therefore, it's just not required.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's no requirement.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's something that I believe there's still California legislation out trying to change that in California, but that's a legal thing that has to change within our country to have these things more vetted.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of terms and things that are used in this industry that are just marketing, right?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Things like natural, things like green, organic, organic.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Those are things that don't have any official third-party organization um vetting those claims.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so will that change?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it does.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: But until then, we just have to trust that brands will do the right thing.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when they don't, I think we have journalists like ourselves and and those at other publications who are able to clear up some of the murkiness.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean it makes sense.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's I think it's definitely like it's gonna take a movement.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just you know, I'm very thankful as a consumer that you guys, you know, I allure is here to stay true to this idea of just good reporting and really putting products out there that work.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't tell you, you know, again, like I can't say this enough how many times I've gone onto the website and you know found like a group of products because you guys do those, um, you know, these are the top 10 lipsticks for spring.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I swear those emails that come through, I end up finding something in every email.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's just something I've started to like rely on.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really, really thankful that, you know, you, your whole team does things so well and and so thoroughly.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one question though, you know, I really wanted to uh bring up to you because this is something I'm very curious about after I've uh started this podcast, um, is this idea of trends.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now, like I know that in the beauty industry, a lot of the trends that take off, at least from what I've noticed, are really geared towards Caucasian women.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, like a new line comes out of lipsticks or a new line comes out of blushes or whatever.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: And there's all these like options, right?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: Which we all know.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: But then there are also brands that I've discovered that are founded by, you know, um black women or Indian women or or, you know, Asian women.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: And these are like gems of in terms of the the product quality, but it's like no one is like letting the secret out, if you if that makes any sense.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like I don't see the same amount of like uh I guess uh push behind those trends as I see like some of the more, I guess, obvious ones.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: So how does that work?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like for especially, you know, for you being a woman of color and being in this industry, like you know, um how do you see that?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like when when it comes to like African American brand founded brands or uh people of color founded brands and why they don't come out so loud as loudly as a lot of Caucasian brands.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how how do you feel about all that?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think there's a part of that, well, there's two things I'm thinking about.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing is when we think about the mix, the ethnic mix perhaps, of beauty brand founders out there, very still at this time a very small portion of them are of color.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: So when we think about who's getting the most, who we're seeing the most, who were who's getting the most play, that's part of it.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's just more of them, right?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing is access to funding, access to space on shelves and major retailers.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, access to just information to get your brand off the ground, access to PR people to get, you know, the name of your brand in front of an Allure editor.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Those are all things that minority founders have less of.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so proud of that.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I actually have had some of those uh the run-ins with those entrepreneurs that are like I can't afford a PR company.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're like$25.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how the hell am I gonna, you know, pay my bills and have a PR company repping me?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, they'll come, you know, like in the past, they've come to me.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, I'll tell you, there's a there's a brand, and I'm sure you've seen it, Jessica.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's so good.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the the young lady who founded it, she just she embarked upon it and just it came to her, but it's the best shea butter I've ever used.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember when I first came across her brand, she was a uh young African-American young lady, uh, you know, really loved her brand.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was a it's a beautiful concept.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: Tolula skincare, by the way, everyone listening.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the best, I'm not joking, shea butter, uh body butter I've ever used.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: It makes my skin feel like nothing else.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I kid you not, she came to me and said, Ecta, I have no one who wants to even look at my products.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: I can't get an editor to look at them.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: I can't get, you know, a PR agency to look at them because everyone wants thousands and thousands of dollars from me.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, listen, you know what?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: From you know, I ended up featuring her and all that, but it was like I remember reaching out to a lot of like people I knew at the time, and it was very hard to get her brand in.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas when I'm looking at the overall scene of the beauty industry and I see a brand that just came out that's founded by, you know, I I'm really not trying to play the race card, but it's a Caucasian woman behind it.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: And within three months, I see her whole blend, her whole brand blow up.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sitting here as a woman of color, still thinking about my friend, you know, founder of Tulula Skincare.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what where is this disconnect?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where's the disconnect?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you like on what basis are we deciding as publications, like who is going to be featured and why?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love for your advice on that, like just your input.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think at Allure, we we do our best to get a good percentage of those indie brand founders in and their stories in.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also about access to who you know.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, a lot of people say, you know, it's about who you know.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that matters about what we even see in the first place, right?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's about who you know.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then couple that with the volume of things that we're getting, sometimes those things fall to the bottom of the pile, you know.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think uh there are a lot of factors at play when it comes to you know what brands to get covered, but I do think that especially, you know, with everything that's gone on with that 15% pledge organization and things like that, we are seeing so much movement of getting more minority brand owned brands seen in Sephora's, in targets, in altas, but also in Allure.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but also it's like just like who's seeing them?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're seeing them, right?
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like they come across your desk, you notice them.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: They could come across my desk or Simone's desk, we notice them, right?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: Why, why?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're women of color, we understand.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: But then they go across a desk of someone or a publication that is predominantly, I don't know, whatever race.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I'm not even gonna put a label on that, and they are not even looked at.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I get really upset, right?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like it's not even about like, because allure is not even, I'm not thinking of allure when I and when I'm citing this example because you guys are very inclusive.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, um, obviously, you know, you're you're really uh ahead of the game.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: But like I get very upset because I'm like, you know, well, I don't have any answers for these young entrepreneurs who are confused about why their brand isn't featured in, you know, the girl next door who's just another complexion, another, you know, shade of skin color is just succeeding at life, even though her products are complete trash, you know.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's a it's a real frustration in the entrepreneur, entrepreneurial community right now.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't know.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted, you know, I just wanted your input on it because I think it's it's more about also the lens of the person that's in charge and if they're able to see, right?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I think that's that's also something that concerns me.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's so important to have not only diverse staff and diverse editors behind the scenes, right?
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's something that is very important to me as someone who has been in rooms where I was the only person of color and the only person who's black.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important to me that we build the allure team to look like sorry, that we build the allure team to look like the world that we live in.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that way, like you said, I'm not gonna lie, when a black-owned brand comes across my desk, I do, I'm like, oh, what is this?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like let me look and see.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we have a good diverse staff, then everyone's gonna do that for their cultures, right?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's gonna have that eye on that particular group because they are so proud and wanting to feature people who look like them and founders who look like them.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree, I agree.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, there's always like this, you know, subconscious uh awareness that we have about our own races, but uh even in general, I think as educated women and just people, you know, it really kind of baffles me how I can speak to you and I can speak to other like-minded individuals.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and we all agree that it's like, okay, a good product is a good product, right?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: So where's the where's the hang-up, guys?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's where that's where the conversation comes to a halt because it's like, okay, we've laid out all the logic here.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now what's the problem?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and that's that's where I get stuck because like I said, you know, I actually I'm not gonna let you guys ranted the episode uh I just published um in the Vivekhand, I kind of ranted because I was like, I look at the beauty industry and I actually shouted out Allure um as one of like the greatest publications, obviously.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, I don't get why this is still a problem.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are so many brands and there's space for everybody, and I don't understand what the hang-up or the slow responses or you know, all of that.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't get it.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's it's unnecessary and it's almost as if we're creating glass ceilings within a bubble that's already a glass ceiling.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're just creating more and more, and then for and and and we keep telling minority entrepreneurs, not we, like you and I, but you know what I'm saying, like the this the community the culture and the you know, whoever's in charge, I guess, that they you're gonna have to work harder and you're gonna have to do more to get noticed, even from the get-go.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: And putting that out there and putting that message out there, whether it's directly or indirectly, is hugely demotivating.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like for a lot of entrepreneurs.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why it bothers me so much.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like a lot of people don't even want to get into it because they're like, Well, am I am I even gonna take off?
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so that's why I that's why I brought this up, you know, because I just I felt comfortable talking to you about it because I I know you get it.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I wanted to um actually, you know, just get your your advice for everybody that's listening, that's in journalism, that's in editorial, or you know, even an entrepreneur, you know, just uh advice about career, about life, anything, any nuggets of wisdom you could share with us um that might be helpful to young professionals.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think find ways to pursue your passions um in your day job.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one thing that has very much so benefited me.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Even when I was you know the minority in the groom room, the minority in the room, being able to say, Hey, I really want to do the story that my friends are gonna read and everybody love because that's what they're talking about, is something that allowed me to really bring new, I think, groups of people, new audiences into the spotlight.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that I've never regretted.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there every person that I interview, I always ask them what's your passion.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I get some of the best answers when I ask that question, and it really tells you a lot about a person, um, about what else that they are interested in and how that might connect with beauty.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I always say find a way to pursue your passion at work.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna be 100% of work, right?
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because work is work, but it's gonna it'll make it um it'll make it much more fun and much more rewarding in the end.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope every I hope everyone listening, you guys should really pay attention to these kind of like words of wisdom because like you don't realize in the moment, but then like these kind of like those words stick with you, you know, and then you you are in a situation and you're like, I remember hearing that, you know, and and it really helps you out.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I love that.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for for saying that.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree with you, and I'm just I'm so honored to have had this amazing opportunity to host you.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: I have so much respect for you, your work, and just everything that you guys are doing at Allure.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, top-notch, like pristine.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just I can't say enough good things.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, this was such an honor, Jessica.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 58:00
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• 58:05
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• 58:08
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• 59:05
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