Latest / Diagnosing Dx / Could 20-Minute Hormone Testing Transform Patient Care? Nedal Safwat, SVP at Canatu

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Could 20-Minute Hormone Testing Transform Patient Care? Nedal Safwat, SVP at Canatu · Diagnosing Dx

• David Filby: Welcome to the show this week, Nedal. How are you? Nedal Safwat: I'm doing well, David. Thank you for having me. David Filby: Fantastic, where in the world are you? Nedal Safwat: I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina, actually in the RTP in the Research Triangle Park. David Filby: Fantastic. How long have you been based around there? Nedal Safwat: Now coming up on 6 months in our current location is Canatu Inc., but I've been living in this area on and off for the past 26 years. David Filby: It's gone through a really exciting boom, right? Whether it's the RTP in terms of the sciences or even the tech side, because North Carolina's doing a really good job of enticing industry and innovation into the state. It's been crazy for house prices, but it's a really exciting place in the country right now, the RTP. Nedal Safwat: Yeah, I mean absolutely David. And that's one of the things that we looked at also, and we'll talk more about Canatu, but when we decided to set up our teams, the RTP was a very attractive place for the reasons you just mentioned. More specifically, it's the talent that's available in this area with three major universities, but also David Filby: Mm. Yeah. Nedal Safwat: if you extend out there's additional universities, research institutes that provide a lot of talent. the cost of living is probably one of the most affordable. the quality of life, for living in this area, raising a family, all of that provides all the key necessities, again, at an affordable cost. And the pharma industry has taken a boom here. I mean, you look at some of the recent announcements with large pharmaceutical entities coming to the triangle in addition to the existing one. Also, it's been the CRO or the clinical research organization capital in the US. What we're trying to do is evolve the diagnostic component and expand on that further. David Filby: Yeah, fantastic. It's a really exciting place to be, and actually I think there's a lot more emphasis on these types of places and moving away from the traditional Bay Area, etc., where everything is so expensive. And if you're operating a lab, doing it in the Bay versus in North Carolina now, the savings are significant. But let's get into the the Canatu plans. But firstly, it'd be great for you to introduce yourself and your background and career and and how your role at Canatu came about. Nedal Safwat: Thank you, David, again, for having me today. So I've been in the IVD or the diagnostic industry the majority of my career, so over 20 years in this space. Also been in the life science area for some time. But I would say diagnostic is where I really spent most of my career. so you know, I joined Canatu about a year ago. Actually, my anniversary just was a couple weeks ago. And the position I have today is the Senior Vice President for Medical Diagnostics and the President of Canatu Incorporated, so basically responsible for building the medical diagnostic business and also setting up the incorporated here in the US so we can have a very strong outreach in North America. Before that, I was with Cepheid. I was leading the portfolio management and program management office. And before that, I was with QIAGEN in a commercial role. Leading North America for the molecular diagnostics, which is basically the clinical portfolio for QIAGEN in North America. And then before that, I was with bioMérieux for quite some time, leading different roles in product development, business unit management, commercial marketing. And then dating myself back, I was with Luminex as well. And my background is I have a bachelor's in biochemistry and a PhD in biochemistry from North Carolina State University. So that's where my roots are in North Carolina. David Filby: It's like a who's who of IVD, who you've worked for, Nedal. So you're originally PhD. how long were you involved in the sciences before you went down the commercial side of the industry? Nedal Safwat: You know, it was an interesting transition because as I was finishing my PhD I had a postdoc lined up getting ready to go to Johns Hopkins, and then I was approached by a company that I was using the product in the lab, called Miltenyi Biotec. It was in the life science space and cell therapy space. They exist today, great company, a just amazing product portfolio. And they approached me and they said, look, we want you to leverage the science knowledge that you have and get into more commercial role, a technical sales position. So at the time it was the perfect blend because I really enjoyed connecting with people, outside of the lab, presenting. So it gave me the opportunity to work with world-renowned scientists on their application for basic research and also cell therapy. And then evolve from there. So it was a good step to be in a commercial role, in a sales role, and evolve into marketing, into product management, and climb the ladder in my career. David Filby: Yeah, interesting. so it was all quite organic, which it tends to be. Was it something that felt right at the time and you were like, actually I'm really interested in the business side of things and I wanna learn that, and that felt like a better route to do that? Nedal Safwat: It was yeah, it felt just amazing and exciting because I had the background in the science, huge interest in how does that work in the business world and how do I take it to the business world. And as you can imagine, very exciting and definitely the right step, but also nerve wracking in, you know, coming from a PhD, being in the lab, talking in the scientific community and now going outside and selling and managing both the science and the business side together. But it was just an amazing and humbling experience as well. And that's David what I recommend for individuals that are starting their career because it builds that muscle required for your commercial trajectory moving forward. David Filby: Awesome. And so now with Canatu, been there a year. So who is Canatu? Because actually I think a lot of the the listeners who are in the diagnostics industry may not have heard of Canatu, right? And it's some new divisions and some new directions. So give us an insight into who Canatu are. Nedal Safwat: Yeah. So the name is actually describing the technology. So the name Canatu comes from carbon nanotubes. So you know, most people in that space know that synthesizing carbon material can be very challenging. And an additional challenge is also how do you deposit it onto layers and make use of it in a product. So productize it and industrialize it has been very challenging. So what Canatu really evolved or developed over a decade is the knowledge, how to synthesize carbon and be able to deposit it in a stable format on different material for developing product and commercial applications. And really stabilizing and scaling that. So why carbon? So carbon as a material just has very unique properties. It has the ability to conduct electricity very fast, conduct heat very fast, transparency capabilities. So being said all that, Canatu had looked at okay, where do we apply the carbon nanotube technology that we are able to create, standardize, stabilize. and industrialized most importantly? And one application is semiconductor, so that we have already a path and a commercial product in semiconductor application that's expanding. Automotive, robotics, biodefense. But then we started the journey in medical diagnostic by early stage exploration with EU grants and partnerships in Europe. And what we found is we can use this material and create electrochemical sensors to detect different biomolecules. And what really got us excited at the time is taking this carbon nanotube material, putting it onto a small electrochemical sensor, like a glucose sensor, if I can use the analogy, and being able to detect things like opioids or different biomarkers. At a very rapid rate. And what we discovered along the way was that the carbon nanotube material has very unique properties that it can be tolerant of different types of samples: urine, blood, plasma extracted, saliva. So it has this unique capability that you could test different types of samples. It has the unique capability also of detecting very low levels of biomolecules. And lastly, it's got very good specificity to detect the signal for the biomolecule that you are looking for. So all these capabilities came together, and that's when Canatu decided, okay, the early exploration showed that we have good data, good progress, a strong foundation that we can build applications in medical diagnostics. So I joined the company again about a year ago. to take the early exploration work that we've done and early prototyping concepts that we have developed, build a roadmap, and look at the market potential and identify where do we play in the market? where do we go? And we've already identified some key domains like hormone testing and sepsis biomarkers. Hormone testing, very attractive because the hormone therapy is evolving, that whole domain, and we could talk about it more of course, is just exploding right now. In sepsis, there's a huge unmet need on point of care, rapid, looking at the key biomarkers. so those are the two domains that we are evolving in. Mostly we're focused on hormones because we really see a unique and good opportunity for our technology there. So joined, built a team, so we have a pretty strong team both in Finland and in January of 2026, we evolved a team in the US. And the reason we did that is we wanted to be ahead of the curve of going into the US market, building a solid foundation that understands product development for the US market, FDA, you know, the regulatory landscape. We didn't want to make the mistake that you see sometimes with small or starting early technology, that they build a product and then later phases they're starting to understand the regulatory environment and the US landscape. So we're starting way David Filby: Mm. Nedal Safwat: early. And that's giving us a very unique, I would say, blend of the two cultures, the team based in Finland, where the mother company Canatu is, and the newly developed team here in the US and the interaction between the two teams. David Filby: Hmm, interesting. So the the two focuses that you've got at the moment is hormones and sepsis. Talk to me about each of them and what the unmet need is in those fields and why Canatu are excited about going after them as the sort of the first targets as you bring this to life. Nedal Safwat: So I'll start with hormones because that was also an area that is I would say new to me in the sense of from a commercial side, but it brings me back to my roots because I did my PhD on hormones. Hormones classically have been around and testing hormone levels in both males and females using centralized lab testing technologies, immunoassay or mass spec based. When we did the market assessment, what we discovered is okay, these technologies have been in existence for quite some time. However, there is an unmet need that you're able to test patients on the spot, understand their hormone level, and basically administer the different hormone treatments that need to follow right there and then in the same visit, and not David Filby: Mm. Nedal Safwat: have them come back in two or three days or look at the results later. And so there is a, I would say, a convenience unmet need that we assessed and quantified with physicians, with hormone therapy clinics. with hospital systems and it varies depending on the hormone type. So for example, if we look at testosterone for male and female hormone therapy, it's more the convenience. If you look at some of the IVF or in vitra fertilization hormones, it is both convenience of having the results there and the time, because as you get ready for the IVF treatment, actually, you're talking six-hour, twelve-hour window, so you can't wait that long until you get the results back from a send out. So that's what really kind of got us moving forward on can we create a point of care device to test the different hormones and create hormone panels that could generate the test results in 15 minutes or 20 minutes? And that's what we're working on. And really the turning point, David, specifically in the US, is that the FDA announced in July of 2025, you know, they had a significant announcement on hormone therapy and the safety, reinforcing the safety of hormone therapy. Prior to that, there was a lot of warning labels on using hormones for peramenopause, menopause, for men, and the FDA changed that and said, okay, it is safe to use hormones at adequate levels as long as you measure baseline correctly and then follow up with the proper levels. So again, we'll see that field and that domain continue to evolve and explode moving forward. And that's what we're excited about. David Filby: And on the sepsis side? Nedal Safwat: So sepsis is a huge field, right? huge, complicated, very critical. The urgency is how do you triage patients that are coming in, whether it's into the ICU, into the emergency department, whether they are a suspect and the level of likelihood that they have sepsis or could develop sepsis, right? So it's very complicated. There are several companies that have evolved with great platforms that's able to, let's say, assess the risk level, assess whether it's bacterial or viral, and they have great solutions. But there's still a basic unmet need on basic biomarkers that you test upon patient admission into the hospital. Or into the emergency room or in the ICU. So that's what we're looking at. And for Sepsis, our approach is that we want to look at the foundational feasibility of our technology for potential by existing biomarkers and enable partnership so we can expand there. Because sepsis is a long journey. It requires quite a heavy lift on building a platform and evolving with a platform in that space. So our approach in sepsis is feasibility, show that our technology has all the unique features that I discussed for detecting biomarkers at low levels, in short turnaround time, at the convenience of a handheld device. David Filby: For both lanes that you're going down, it feels like you've been really thorough in terms of market research, trying to find unmet needs and then work backwards towards your technology and how you develop that technology towards an unmet need rather than we've got this great technology, let's try and create a product out of it because it's a great - do you know what I mean? And we hear this a lot on the show, actually it tends to be with the more established, most successful people in the industry that everyone says start at the need and work backwards. That's how diagnostics work, and the biggest challenge in the industries is early stage startups who have come straight out of academia, don't really know if the unmet need is there or if they'll ever be able to change clinical workflows, but they're really in love with their own science and they pursue things and it gets really difficult later on, which they're not really prepared for. But it really feels like you guys have consciously tried to work back. Was that by design? Was that very intentional? And was that from your perspective, important when you joined the company that we've got we've got to know what the need is first and and work backwards? Nedal Safwat: Yeah. David, that's a great point. A great point because you're absolutely right. You see a lot of startups whether it's in early stealth mode or through a journey of a startup mode where they have amazing technology. But the key question is, what is that technology solving? Are you solving a problem or not? So that's the key thing that we wanted to make sure before we build a roadmap. Is ask that question, what are the unmet needs and the pain points that we see in the market today? And can our technology solve those unmet needs and be differentiated or not? And that's the key question that every startup from a high level has to answer. you have to look at it from several dimensions, meaning are you solving a problem for clinical use? Are you solving a problem for logistics? Are you solving the cost component of it because in today's world with healthcare cost pressures, you have to also from the beginning start to understand is my technology going to meet that cost threshold or should I just stop now? Because you might have the best technology that's way overpriced, way overcomplicated, cannot address the workflow need in a lab in a setting, and you're destined to basically failure. But if you start to calibrate at the beginning and say, what is my product market fit? Do I have that before I start and take off? And that's what we wanted to make sure we address. And I would add on top of that is along the way, you have to continue to validate. So we have ongoing voice of customer engagement. I mean, today we're talking to different physicians that are running labs for hormone testing. To validate our assumptions, to validate the market study that we've done. So that has to keep going in the background and dig deeper into requirements. David Filby: Yeah that makes sense. And with the advances in and the positive guidelines around hormone therapy and the development in that industry, does that bode well for partnerships in terms of Canatu's technology being utilized with the therapy developers and big pharma and so forth who are looking at now bringing those products to market, does that bode well for, potential partnerships there that you're looking at? Nedal Safwat: Yes. We see the partnership, I'll start maybe with in order of where do we see the strongest potential partnership. So we see the partnership with some of the tier one also diagnostic platforms that have large immunoassay or mass spec based platforms that we could be a complement as a point of care. Because the central lab testing is not gonna disappear. But like everything else, we'll see a shift or a change in the dynamic where some is done in a central lab setting, and a certain portion is done in a point of care, close to the patient in remote clinics setting. So that's where we see number one potential partnership is our platform complementing the centralized lab instruments or platforms that exist today. The second piece, David, you're absolutely right, because we're seeing an evolution in the hormone therapy space and that even evolving where there needs to be sort of a companion-like diagnostic test, but still very early for that level. The one thing I'll comment that came up in our market research is, most physicians say, David, if I'm going to do hormone therapy treatment for you, I need to understand what your baseline was when you're 20, 30, 40, so I know how to treat you compared to your own baseline. So it becomes David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: a very personalized treatment rather than the classical typical male hormone level is X, and therefore I need to get that person to that level. We're moving away from that. It has to be personalized to every individual depending on their baseline and depending on how their body has different balances of hormones. David Filby: In that case, then, with the historical hormone data that people need access to, because at the moment we're seeing well for a while now, we've seen a huge push in individuals and more individuals wanting access to their own health data, right? And Nedal Safwat: Correct. David Filby: so, is that an angle that you guys see in terms of this this measurement of of hormone data where actually part of the wellness industry and that sort of leaning where actually people want to be able to get this data and it could actually become a trend that at the age of 20, suddenly all these 20-year-olds go, right, I need to go get this data because it's going to be useful for me in 5, 10, 20 years' time, and I want to check that every so often. Is that where somewhere that your technology and testing could be really interesting, where people are like, it's another one of these things where we want this data. Nedal Safwat: It's a great question because the short answer is yes. Definitely we see the awareness of I need to understand my hormone levels, I need to understand my cholesterol levels. So there's a significant amount of awareness that we're seeing in the market evolve from patients. And there's even a report that I was reading from PWC that says patient-driven results. So meaning as a patient, I go to the doctor, I'm saying, you know, I haven't measured my hormone levels in two years. Can you measure? Right? That wasn't the case 5 years ago. David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: That was not the case, you know, pre-COVID. I think COVID also educated the community on, I should look at what's causing the disease, I should look at my own condition. And then the wellness evolved. And then I would even expand on we're going into more longevity, not just wellness. So it's an interesting dynamic that we're seeing in the market today because you go to your primary care for an annual checkup. And it's typically lagging indicators, meaning here's your levels. But what I'm interested in is how do I keep healthy? How do I stay healthy? How do I improve? David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: And how do I project in the future that I need potential hormone therapy or I need other types of therapy or I need to watch my diet? So we're seeing a dynamic change in in the community. so that's where our platform helps also address that need in a timely manner. David Filby: That's super interesting. Nedal Safwat: 'Cause I want to have that discussion with the physician right there and then. I don't wanna wait two or three days later. and I'll add one piece of information, David and we'll transfer it back to you, is when we looked at hormone therapy clinics, the biggest challenge they have is the drop out rate. Patient comes in, they collect the sample, it's sent to a central lab, they never come back. David Filby: Why is that then? Nedal Safwat: It's convenience, you know, it's the typical of, it's not that urgent, I'll go back later, I get occupied by work, family, you know, other things they keep me and I'll get back to it in 2 or 3 months. In 2 or 3 months, well maybe my levels are not the same anymore. I need to redo this all over again, right? You know, so that's that is changing with the ability to get more direct to consumer point of care. David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: That's helping that quite a bit. That's why you see the direct to consumer evolving, even for hormone testing. David Filby: Yeah, interesting. People want access to information quickly and readily, not having to go in somewhere and then wait and and and stay in touch. It's it we have short attention spans now, but we also want access to more data. Nedal Safwat: Correct. And it's like if you have a task and you say, I'll get to it later, that later could David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: become very delayed, right? David Filby: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So where's the the diagnostics division of Canatu now then in terms of since you started and the development and where are these products and you know what have you guys built and w and where where are you as we stand? Nedal Safwat: So one thing I'm really proud of is how fast we have built where we are today. And we announced it at the Capital Market Day back in March. So a year ago again we had a concept that was developed. We scaled up the team. So we have again two teams, one based in Finland and one based in the US. And we're taking the model of we have one team that evolves concepts, develop concepts, explores de-risks, and then transfer it to a development team that's really focused on, the very defined parameters of development. So we are in feasibility phase for our first hormone test. And we're building a device as well, because one of the key things we wanted to make sure is we have an integrated solution that takes, from a patient finger stick blood sample, so the least invasive, and within 20 minutes it goes into a cartridge, a reader, and generates results. So we are in the feasibility stage right now, and we're making sure that we let's say, you know, in feasibility, one of the key elements is making sure you de-risk your assay, your test is working, but you want to understand what are the risk parameters, what are the variables, how do I minimize all of that so when I go into you know design and development phase, I can shorten the design and development and I could be ready for verification validation effort in a robust way. You know, that's one thing I learned throughout my career because it takes the same amount of time, but you could just put more effort on the feasibility and the de risking, to make sure you address that upfront. David Filby: Right, understood. And how far away are you guys hoping to be from commercially available products and tests and devices? Nedal Safwat: Yep. So we're looking at having the first commercially available product in late 2029. early 2030. We're kind of fine tuning that timeline right now. So that would be our first official product to market. David Filby: Okay. And in terms of raising capital, will you guys need to raise capital or is this something that's funded by the wider Canatu group? Nedal Safwat: Yep. So Canatu's really been in a very unique spot with a strong board that you know when, we when I say we, the medical diagnostic division, presented the roadmap, the board was very supportive to fund the roadmap, that we have developed. Now we have incremental milestones, of course, that we have to go through, you know, demonstrate the feasibility, demonstrate our design and development is working and the prototypes are developed. so at each, let's say, milestone, we're opening up the funding for the next phase. And that could be fully Canatu sponsored Or we could explore options to do other, you know, whether it's partnerships or going out for additional funding. David Filby: That's really interesting, isn't it? Because ultimately Canatu have other industries where they've been longstanding successful. They don't have to be in diagnostics. I'm sure they could continue doing what they're doing. So there must be some real excitement around how the science transfers and the ability to bring something really exciting to market that's actually going to address an unmet need, right? Otherwise why would you guys be doing it? It feels like there's easier industries to make money than diagnostics, so there must be Nedal Safwat: for sure. Yeah. Yeah, we both know that. David Filby: even though you're in feasibility, there must be you guys must be excited about what you're seeing. Nedal Safwat: Yeah, so we're definitely excited. And what fuels that excitement and validates it are two things. Number one is the input that we're getting from voice of customer engagement that again we keep in parallel. And the second piece is the numbers are very encouraging when we look at the business case and what's ahead of us and what's the potential. If you think about it, the hormone testing market, the landscape is established, so you don't have to worry about bringing a new marker and re-establishing guidelines or establishing new guidelines, establishing new reimbursement. The reimbursement codes are there. It's been in existence for quite some time. The standard of care is not changing. We're not changing that. What we're changing is we're bringing convenience of accessible and faster time to results. And that's what makes it attractive for us. Again, don't get me wrong, that means we still have to do the typical you know, development timelines, registration timelines. David Filby: And you mentioned reimbursement there, obviously a huge topic in in the world of diagnostics. Is that something that you guys are tackling early on and something that's very important to you already? Nedal Safwat: Yeah. Not only reimbursement, but design to cost. So I learned the concept in my career is that, we have to balance the both levels. You know, we have a reimbursement threshold, and that dictates what the lab is willing to pay for, and that dictates what we could sell the product to achieve a healthy margin. So we're I would say setting these standards early on as we develop the product. And that's why I introduced a concept of design to cost. I mean, it's been around for quite some time, but we are using it to measure our cost of goods, our selling target, and the reimbursement code every step along the way. The reimbursement landscape is, again, as I mentioned, established. But it has gone already through some challenges. There's pressure. I think the pressure is more on the high premium cost tests and new technologies that are not as well regulated. What's attractive in the hormone space is there's quite a bit of volume that's self-pay. So whether an individual goes to a hormone therapy clinics in vitro fertilization that's David Filby: Mm-hmm. Nedal Safwat: all self pay. So a hormone test in the grand scheme of this process is not a concern from a cost perspective. David Filby: Yeah, interesting. So How you're set up, because you've worked in big global players, but you've also worked in startups. Do you do you feel like a startup or do you feel like a, you know, operationally, a large corporation tackling something new, or is it somewhere sort of in between? Because even the way you're talking about things, you're drawing on your experience, say, you know, been there, done that, we need to get this right now, what's the unmet need? What's the reimbursement pathway? You're talking about, you know, the cost to design. You're tackling stuff that founders might not even think about until they've all you know, they hit the mistake, you know, or hit the Nedal Safwat: Yep. David Filby: hit the barriers later on. How does it feel to you do you fe do you feel like a startup or do you feel like, you know, this division in a operational machine? Nedal Safwat: So we have to be a startup. We have David Filby: Right. Nedal Safwat: to operate like a startup because startups have the speed, the spirit, the power, the engagement. David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: It is the product of everyone within that group. So David Filby: Hm. Nedal Safwat: that's how I've built the team. And that's how I continue to reinforce the team is that every individual in my team is a foundation of this company and a foundation of this technology. And we're operating with the startup mindset in the sense of we make decisions fast. We have an amazing board, David, and I'm not just saying that because I'm on the podcast, but really an empowering board that are allowing us to make the decision fast and reinforcing fail David Filby: Mm. Nedal Safwat: quickly so you can learn from your mistakes and pivot and succeed, which you don't find in you know the standard let's say approach David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: in a board. But we're making decisions quickly. We're moving fast, we're learning from our mistakes, and that's allowing us to pivot forward. We have individuals on the team that have been in the diagnostic space for quite some time, so they bring that level of knowledge. But to your point, we have to sometimes stop and think, are we thinking like big corporate company, you know, too taking too long on making the decisions? And that's when we stop ourselves and say, we have to operate like a startup, we have to operate fast, agile with the experience that we have, you know, from large, well-established companies that know the journey, that have seen the journey. David Filby: That's awesome. Because I'm really glad you said that, if I'm honest, because I think there's a really exciting sweet spot if you can get that right of being a startup and having the culture, the ambition, in a way, a little bit of humility and naivety to you know to fail and build and keep going. But if you can do that with the even just infrastructure support or robustness to survive and keep picking yourself up that a well established company can bring, then I think there's a really nice sweet spot. But there is also, you know, stories of companies that tried to do something new and they just couldn't get out of their own way. That's not a diagnostics thing. That happens across all, tech, med device, everything in between. So it's really great that you you feel there's a start up culture and and you know, running through everything, but also that the board are allowing you that freedom 'cause that's critical, isn't it? If every time you needed to do something, the last thing you need is a board that go no, it has to go through this line of approvals, that's gonna take this time, we have to get these people together. It's like that's the last thing you need when you're trying to build early on, you know? Nedal Safwat: Yeah, and I would say our CEO as well has been just a strong voice in supporting the medical diagnostic application. So our CEO was just here a couple of weeks ago and looking at what we have done over the past year, and it was a good testament from him to say, this is going in the right direction. You guys have moved very fast. And I'll give you, even David, a concrete example, just as a simple example of you know the agility and the mindset. So we had two team members that first joined the company, and they said the way we're tabulating data is very slow and very manual. So they coded in Python, which I I don't know anything about. an automated way that we could take the raw data and instead of taking you know a couple hours to process, then within 30 seconds it's processed, graphed, the algorithm is implemented and generated. David Filby: Mm. Nedal Safwat: And we took that and we actually went very quickly into an agency and said, make that user-friendly so all the scientists can just put the output of the data and generate on the other end the final data set and we David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: can archive that and do comparisons and automate the whole process. So that's the mindset that we have is if we have something, it's taking too much time, we're gonna move fast and try to evolve it and quickly automate it. David Filby: That's awesome. That's proper start up vibe, isn't it? I love it. The future milestones then we should look out for. We talked about commercialisation, but there'll be many along the way. For people who want to follow along the story, what should we be looking out for in sort of the next maybe 6 to 12 months and to see the progress from Canatu? Nedal Safwat: Yeah, if you're gonna be at ADLM, that's a milestone because we have three posters at ADLM, one on detecting a biomarker in urine, and one on you know, our electrochemical sensor technology, and then we have another one on looking at hormones. So those are gonna be at ADLM and it will give us the opportunity to share with you and others, of course. We are starting to go down the path of clinical sample testing and what that means is papers. So the next milestone would be to have additional publication. We already have three papers. And then getting into of course the clinical trials would be another critical milestone for us. David Filby: Awesome. And I have to leave you with this question, Nedal, you've been in the industry long enough. So what's your take on the current state of the diagnostics market and where we're going? Nedal Safwat: I've been reading different reports, David, and it's really changing. And it's almost like it's returning to a normal that was pre COVID. You know, before COVID, liquid biopsy was evolving, infectious disease was steadily growing, COVID came, infectious disease became in the headlines in the front, everything was infectious disease. You know, now that we're almost five years after the pandemic, we see this let's say, recovery of liquid biopsy testing for oncology, for hereditary, and other applications. So that is a key area that we'll continue to see evolve and grow quite rapidly. We do see point of care evolve, and I'm not just saying that because we're in that space, but we do see that the pressure and let's say challenge with having enough skills in the lab is shifting from centralized testing to remote, decentralized testing, also because we're trying to take care of patients in remote settings quicker. You know, triage, understand the treatments in small hospitals, emergency clinics, that more technology will evolve in point-of-care setting. And centralized testing will take a different shape moving forward. we'll also see you know evolution in key unique areas, I think, like tissue plant, tissue transplant rejections, hereditary diseases. the one question, David, I'll leave you with is this whole evolution of peptides. There's a lot of discussion David Filby: Mm. Nedal Safwat: of how do we measure peptides? And how do we monitor peptides because they have a such a short half-life? They're not regulated today. David Filby: Yeah. Nedal Safwat: And how do we see that let's say side effects or potential effects that they're having, whether on biomarkers, hormones, others? So that's an area that's interesting. We'll see where it goes. David Filby: Challenge accepted, I'll go out and find the the the novel science that's gonna measure peptides and see if I can get some people on the show. Nedal Safwat: Yeah, Maybe we'll help with that in the future. David Filby: There we go. Nedal, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking about this. I actually love that we have a successful company in other industries looking at the diagnostics industry as an exciting industry to be entering and putting money and innovation into the industry, but also the process that you guys are going through in terms of how thorough you're being and how logical you're being about how you actually not just survive but thrive in this industry and actually make change. I think this is a really exciting story. There's always a bit of doom and gloom in the industry, right? And a lot of that comes down to funding and the challenges and we know that. So I think it's a great story that you guys are deciding to come into the diagnostic space and develop something novel and try and tackle challenges that you see existing. And I think the industry should be excited to hear that this kind of move is being made. So thank you for coming on and telling the story. Nedal Safwat: David, thank you for having me on the show and looking forward to getting on the market and really contributing to changing patient care and making it better, more convenient, and more accessible. David Filby: Awesome. Thank you, Nedal.