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READING ROOM JULY 26 · The Reading Room

0:00
Speaker 1: Babe, write reader.
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Speaker 2: Here we are back again with the reading room. So
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it's been a while, but hopefully you remember what book
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we're reading. It we were reading it was To the
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Lighthouse by Virginia Wolf. And I'm here Christa. My name
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is Krista, and I'm here with Barry Hello, singer, songwriter
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and poet. And I'm also here with Sue Gerard Hi,
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Sue Hi christer. She's a author, poet, actress. So we
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have some very special people with us. I'm going to
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start with you, Sue. Okay, So To the Lighthouse nineteen
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twenty seven novel by Virginia Wolf, the twentieth century modernist,
1:02
that's what she's been described as. So what did you
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think of the book?
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Speaker 3: Well, I always wanted to read a work by Virginia Wolf,
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and I thought this was the ideal opportunity for me
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to do this. But I did find that it left
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me with mixed feelings. To be honest, I found it
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very complex in its stream of consciousness and its characters
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and the interweaving which only gave us the plot of
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sorts at the beginning. I found the use of the
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very long sentences and paragraphs made it difficult to follow
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at first, and I have to say I got confused
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with some of the characters, such as which she's she
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and which she us this, and the fact that she
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introduces so many characters at the beginning I found a
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bit confusing, and sometimes because they were only easily mentioned,
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I thought that I really it wasn't interested in finding
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out that much more about them. Having said that, I
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thought that her use of the character's reflections through other
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people's lies, it was really well done. But I only
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got into this book by page twenty five with mister
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Banks's reflections on his friendship with Missus Ramsey. And at
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this point I have to say I was thinking, thank
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God for Missus Ramsey.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you're lucky you did get into it. I'm
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not saying anything yet, but here's Barry, Barry, what's your opinion?
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Speaker 4: I understand exactly where Sus coming from. It reminded me
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a little bit of something that Bill Bryson said, you
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know the travel Writer, which is that you know, travel
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is better looking back without the anxiety of the practical.
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And I felt a little bit like that about this book.
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In as much as looking back having read it, I
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enjoyed it more inasmuch as I have to say that
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the because the book's in three sections really for the
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benefit of the listeners. It's like one day in time
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at a house up in the aisle of sky with
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a family and friends, and then at the end there's
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another day sort of ten years on and the wars
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in between. But the middle section of the book is
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a sort of the time passing, and it was fairly
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unfathomable on first read, I thought, And it was only
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when I was going back that I realized that even
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the house itself was narrating some of the time passing,
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which was a fairly interesting concept but not easy to
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grasp on first run through.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I really couldn't get into it. And
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I have actually tried to read the Giniu Wolff and
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I really couldn't get into it either, but I did
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it was I'm glad that I did have the opportunity
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to read something of hers, because she's rated as one
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of the best novelists of the twentieth century, isn't she
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just like Fitzzgerald the Great Gatsby. Yeah, so a couple
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of things that I don't really I didn't rate that much,
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Like with you, Sue I found it confusing. I know
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there's a certain style to that, and they kind of
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mentioned that James Joyce wrote in a similar style. I
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have tried to read James Joyce. I think I got
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through a couple of pages and I just didn't know
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what was going on. So it's not really my style.
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I don't really understand for me personally, I think it's
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quite self indulgent to write like that. Yes, with no
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but no, no, no kind of plot really, and it's
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it is about what do they call it? Kind of
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the consciousness? Is that the yeah? Yeah, so which? And
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then looking into Virginia Wolf, I saw that she did
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used to sit around and just think of her thoughts
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because she had like a few mental health problems, so
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it was just her really kind of reeling off these thoughts,
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which people can do.
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Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that I could write like Virginia Wolf,
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but that stream of consciousness, I suppose back in the
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day was unusual when women couldn't really give their emotions
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and their thoughts freely. So possibly that's where she became
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a famous writer. Yes, so soup, what can you add
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to any of that?
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Speaker 3: Well? I would agree with you on that I felt
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that there was a lot of the author in this book,
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for example, the same number of siblings, and I think
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that with the depth of analysis and other conclusions, I
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felt a lot of her was coming through. I thought
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that it was possibly because all the characters found it
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hard to speak out loud about their feelings, and they
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reflected inwardly about their feelings, and I think that was
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an indicator of how people in that society behaved and
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how society has changed in what we allow ourselves to
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think and do with parts of it. I trant that
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I was guilty that I was trespassing into someone's mind
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or a stranger with a little knowledge of their world,
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reading their diaries, and I felt I had to do
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a lot of reading between the lines, yes, before I
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could start enjoying it more.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely well, when I was explaining it to somebody, they said, briefly,
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what's it about? And I thought, hmm, okay, James couldn't
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go to the lighthouse exactly, yeah, and he laughed as well.
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And then he does go in the end, and yeah,
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I get it that, you know, he's kind of given
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his father in the end for giving him that big disappointment.
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But I just think, you know, build a bridge, get
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over it, Barry.
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Speaker 4: There's a danger of oversimplifying it. I think, I think
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it's an interesting study.
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Speaker 5: I think.
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Speaker 4: I mean, obviously, it takes a single episode, which is
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the day at the start off where everybody's on holiday
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and the son, James, who is about seven years old,
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wants to go to the lighthouse, and his mum says
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that they will be able to go to the lighthouse,
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but the father knows that they won't be able to
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go with the lighthouse because the weather won't be any
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good the next day, and it does sort of that
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first part of the book is about that, and then
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the last part of the book is about the de
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nument of that in light of the fact that James's
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mother has died and one of his sisters has died
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in childbirth, and one of his brothers has died.
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Speaker 5: In the war.
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Speaker 4: So there's there's quite a lot of baggage in between
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the two. And why that particular episode is chosen in
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order to illustrate that relationship with the father is probably
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fairly convoluted. But nonetheless, you know that first section of
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the book, I mean, in books that we've read before,
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like they say the Heart of Darkness and what have
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you were you know, there's a narrator and it's done
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in the first person and what have you, and we're
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getting that story. This is a different book altogether in
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that it actually sort of goes to each person, so
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you see what's inside each person's mind rather than an
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external narrator, which is an interesting concept, I think, you know,
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and I think that and obviously confusing for the for
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the readers, as it has you know, for confused the
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three of us. But nonetheless that the concept it's like
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conceptual art if you like, it's that sort of thing
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where you think, well, I could have done that, but
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you couldn't. Yeah, right, it's like and it's and that's
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the point. And I think that that's it is the
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same with conceptual visual art. It's that it's that idea
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and it's that whole principle and where it's set. I mean,
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there are certainly, for me far easier books to read
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in that time period. But nonetheless I thought it was
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valuable and an interesting an interesting thing to read, and
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I felt, like I said before, basically felt better for
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having read it afterwards.
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Speaker 2: So I absolutely agree with you, Barry. I do I'm
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glad that I've read it, and and I and I
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get it. I get that what she's trying to do.
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I just didn't think it was that interesting for me.
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And also there was one part of the book that's
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you know, I did read up on what the people
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have thought about the book, and a lot of people
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were saying, you know, in the first part, it's traumatic
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when one of the guests asked for some more soup. Yes,
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And I really didn't get. I don't get things like that,
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but I do put it in its contexts. That was
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like the nineteen hundreds of the early nineteen hundreds. I
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also looked up Virginia Wolf and I thought she had
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a very interesting life and she was lucky because she
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was educated and she was able to write books. So
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that to me was like an important part of it too,
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like just writing her thoughts.
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Speaker 3: So what do you think, Yeah, i'd agree with that.
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I mean, she did say, oh, one needs to be
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a writer. There's two hundred pounds in a really one zone. Well,
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when she was born, two hundred pounds would be a
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working man's way for a year, So it's not blindly
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that easy in those days to be a writer. Well,
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I think with the book, I've got a sense of
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the characters being settled within the world, yet unsettled because
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the world wasn't giving them what they needed completely what
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they needed. I do think as well that I found
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some of it rambling, I have to say, And I
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also do think that I did become quite impatient with
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the narrative and the characters. What views just said Kristen,
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thinking are they nothing better to do than think of
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the alphabet? And I know the alphabet had a significance
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for mister Ramsey, but it was self indulgent to me
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in that sense, but it did make me think about
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their in the thoughts and sometimes my own response to that,
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I noted that there was very little dialogue in the
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book and very little happens. But I also think it's
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interesting that neither Missus Ramby's first name nor husband's has
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actually mentioned, and Lashney de Marier did with the Emmy
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Beca with a second Missus de Winters, she never had
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a first name. She was always Missus de Winter's, where
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his first wife was always known as Rebecca. And it's
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really making these characters more anonymous, yes, by not giving
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them a first name. So and obviously this was before
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before Rebecca was written. I did find that's interesting, and
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there is referred to the tragedy that hit the family.
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But I also found interesting that significant moments almost passed
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by unnoticed, such as the death of Missus Ramsey and
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Andrew in the war and through were so much attension
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and thought was given to comparative nothingness.
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Speaker 2: You're right, so, and actually that does remind me of
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right nowadays, when you watch a film, for me, there's
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too much attention on the special effects and the action,
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and so this is kind of the opposite way. There's
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no not much attention on what's actually happening. It is
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just thought. So that's actually actually quite an interesting point, Barry.
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Speaker 5: I think that.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I take issue a little bit with the
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characterization because I think that the Missus Ramsey character is
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a very strong character, and I think that I'm not
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sure that she misses out that you miss out by
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not knowing her name, and that I'd probably have forgotten
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it anyway, to be honest, because there's so many different names,
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you know that, And so the idea that it's Missus
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Ramsey sort of fixed it in my mind because there
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was only one if you know what I mean, missus
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so but in terms of her characterization, we're looking at
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a time here which was like sort of just.
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Speaker 5: Post Edwardy and I suppose like post Victorian.
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Speaker 4: Really, I mean, I think that the image of mister
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Ramsey was was a sort of typical Martinette type Victorian character,
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and he was as a lot of people were at
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that time. He was taken with philosophy and you know,
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sort of esoteric sort of issues and what have you.
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And I thought that Missus Ramsey had the total measure
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of him, because he was a very sort of fickle man,
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and he was quite vain, and he needed her to
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support him, and she knew that, and she played that game.
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And at the same time, she was like HARKing back
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to the past a little bit where she wanted the
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other Lily Briscoe. She she has sort of had her
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matched up to another guy who was an older guy.
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I think that she felt that that order of things
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was the right order of things and the way it
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should go. I think at this at the end once,
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I mean, because because it was only like one day
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or twenty four hours, that you couldn't really cover the
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death of Missus Ramsey any better, inasmuch as I say
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that central bit where time passes actually covers all that
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and throws in lots of things, including the house fallen
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into disrepair and the cleaner coming and you know, and
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getting it back to you know, and I say, Andrew
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dying and the girl dying in childbirth, so that when
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you come to the second part, the characterization of Lily
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brisco is even stronger because mister Ramsey wants the same
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sort of reassurance of her, but she is a far
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more independent woman and she is like, what she wants
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to do is to complete her painting, because that's her
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goal in life.
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Speaker 5: And I think that.
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Speaker 4: I think that Virginia Wolf is using that like that allegorically,
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you know, to actually show that independence from men. And
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I felt that quite strongly was carried out very well.
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Speaker 2: I thought, yeah, that's a good point as well. The
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novel kind of looks on relationships as well, doesn't it.
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That's part of the novel's main kind of characteristics. But
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I find that the relationships were not that interesting. I
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didn't find any of the characters that interesting really. However,
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the ends that Lily Briscoe is she the artist, She's
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the artist and she I liked the end when she
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realized it was more about I think, the journey than
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the actual destination. That's what that was my interpretation. She'd
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finished the painting, but she realized it was about you know,
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just actually wanting to do it. So I thought that
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was quite good. That was that was the best part
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for me, really at the very end when she said
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that anything else you can add, Sue.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think with Missus Ramsey, I wanted more about
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her demise because I felt she was really the only
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interesting character in the book, and I didn't like the
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fact that it was Missus Ramsey's dread full stop. I
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wanted to know more because she was the one character
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that actually engaged me. Yeah, and I think that's why
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I felt it's just been a pushed out of the plot.
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And as I said, right at the beginning, there was
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a point where I was thinking, thank God for Missus Ramsey,
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because otherwise I think I'd have to put this book down.
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You know, it's that kind of She was the only
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when I had an affection for, so I felt quite
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a hurt when she was just missed.
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Speaker 2: Well, I agree, because like the major things that happened
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were one of the ladies lost her engagement ring on
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the beach, didn't she? And that was a major event,
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and you know, that's that, to me is kind of
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something that happens. It's not very nice, but that does happen.
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And then the soup bit, that's the thing that's laughable.
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She complains because he asks for some more soup. The
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lighthouse visits disappointed. What other points were there, Barry? Can
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you think of any other kind of specific points in
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the book. Or they get engaged as well, don't they?
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Speaker 3: Yeah?
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Speaker 4: Right, I think I think you're being a bit more
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kind to it. Really, I think that, you know, I
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read different things into it, and I don't. I don't
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honestly think that Missus Ramsey was whitewashed out of it.
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Speaker 5: I think she is the focus.
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Speaker 4: She's the focal point of the last bit because the
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Lily Briscoe is painting an image of Missus Ramsey and
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that's when she gets it, you know.
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Speaker 5: And so there's this.
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Speaker 4: I suppose a conflict between what was the Victorian time
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and this, I mean, in so many of the books
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that we've read with the period novels and you talk
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about the characters and most of the time all they
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do is sit at home and knit, you know. So
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so to actually find in this one, you know, that
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that that that you know, the characters weren't weren't characterized,
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I think is a bit unfair. Early, I think that
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that she was missus Ramsey was very much an example
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of a strong woman in that Victorian time, and and
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it was it's that change over to what Lily Briscoe
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was at the end, which is one of the key
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aspects of the book, you know, and in as much
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as Virginia Wolf, you know, the idea of that Lily
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brisco I think is a cyst of Vanessa.
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Speaker 5: But I think that's the I think that's a given,
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you know. And I think that.
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Speaker 4: The whole lifestyle was a very modernist lifestyle. You know,
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they were part of the Bloombery set. They sort of
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rebelled against the BOURGEOISI although to be honest, they were
19:24
probably fairly bourgeois themselves, but you know, they had like
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men and men quad for the time. They were very
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sort of risky groups of people and so not you know,
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the whole persona was them of being very modern thinking
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and and and this particular novel, you know, illustrates it
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if you like and tell us that tells that tale.
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And I think it does it very succinctly, you know,
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with that stream of consciousness, notwithstanding the fact that I
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had to go back and reread bits in order to
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understand that.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, it was it. It was like a diary,
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and it reminded me of things that maybe somebody would
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write in your diary, like, for example, you know, I
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had chicken for dinner and it was lovely, that kind
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of thing, which does anybody else really want to know?
20:13
I'm not knocking it in that way that I just think, Yeah,
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at the end, there was a poignant point with basically
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enjoying the moment. That's what I got from it. Yes, Sue,
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can you add something?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I do. I agree that it's sort
20:28
of a novel about change and particularly the role of
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women changing. I also like the way that missus Rams's
20:38
intelligence is brought before that she's not just this Victorian
20:44
stokeh Edwardian, you know housewife. I mean, on page thirty four,
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I think her husband thinks of her, that her simplicity
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fathomed what clever people falsified, which shows the depth to
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her character. And I mean I did enjoy reading the
21:04
book because I've always wanted to read some of them
21:07
Jinia Woolf. So I felt that it was it was
21:11
worthwhile reading. I'm not sure that I would tackle another
21:15
one unless there is picked one for the next reading.
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Speaker 2: We have no choice what.
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Speaker 3: Probably do that? And I felt it led me into
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another style of writing, which for me required another style
21:35
of reading.
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Speaker 2: That's very true. It's very true, and I suppose it
21:39
is it's dated because back in the day, I suppose
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it would have been quite unusual to have this woman
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painting and to have those thoughts and yeah, to think of.
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Speaker 4: Because they do have the guy there was the guy
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whose name is it Tansley? I can't I can't remember
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all the names. Tansley who was a big admirer of
21:57
of mister Ramsey the philosopher and has written as own things,
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but who was basically, you know, our women can't paint,
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you know, I mean, so, so there was that sort
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of you know, you could you could see that there
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was a you know, there was there was a conflict
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there in the fighting against the you know, the old
22:14
world and the new world if you like.
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Speaker 2: At this time, it was.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think that at the end of the day.
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Speaker 4: You know that, you know that her one of her conclusions,
22:26
because there's I think there's quite a few there is
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that you know that, like Chris has said, you know
22:31
that the part of it is the journey, you know,
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and part of it is doing is like it's like
22:36
polonious thing you know, to your own self, be true,
22:39
you know. And I think that that was what you
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know that there's certainly values out of that because you know,
22:44
it was the social morase was for them to do
22:46
very much different things like I say, I mean, I
22:50
would stress that bit really, which I do think is
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worth you know, sort of looking at again, which is
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that mister Ramsey sort of makes stops to make small
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talk with with Lily Brisco and she knows what he
23:03
wants her to say and she won't say it. And
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I think that's like a really critical bit, you know,
23:09
like a sort of a wow bit if you like
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you know, absolutely.
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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, not a burying anymore.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely yeah.
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Speaker 2: So can you add anything?
23:21
Speaker 3: I was just I think no, I don't think I can.
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I was just wondering there was a film of this,
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which obviously I've not watched. I just wondered if if
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you two.
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Speaker 2: I tried to find the film. I have been told
23:35
I had been told the film was as as boring
23:38
as the book. But I tried. I tried to find
23:41
it on YouTube and I couldn't. I couldn't get it.
23:43
There was only I managed to get something, and it
23:46
was a Chinese translation of the book an audio, and
23:50
I don't speak Mandarin. I did want to look and
23:53
watch the film because I heard there was I mean,
23:54
you do speak Cantonese absolutely, but anyway, need how, yeah,
24:02
I just I did try. Really, if I watched the film,
24:06
it might give me more insight. I do think it was,
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you know, like with James forgiving his father at the end,
24:13
and I think maybe you can look into that and
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maybe that's what she wanted, was the thing that you know,
24:18
as time passes, you do forgive, you get mature. But really, yeah,
24:23
there wasn't There wasn't much in it for me. But
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but also just I'll just talk about Virginia Wolf and
24:30
her She had a very interesting life, didn't she as well?
24:34
She was quite unique in the way she explored her sexuality,
24:39
and she married, but was also quite mentally unstable, and
24:44
there was a thing saying I think it was about her.
24:47
Our artists are not looking at Barry that are you
24:51
more fulfilled in your art work if you do have
24:54
some mental health kind of not problems, but issues, maybe
24:58
that was a hell thing when I was.
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Speaker 5: Reading trying to develop some all my life.
25:03
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's true. Okay, So we're just moving on
25:08
there because Sue, you've got some things you want to announce,
25:10
haven't you about an event? I hope it's not too
25:13
late to announce them, because then we are two weeks
25:17
late from what we're going to.
25:19
Speaker 3: Do the show. Yes, it's well, I'll do the events
25:23
first and then do you want me to do the
25:25
poetry the tribute?
25:26
Speaker 2: I would love you to love you to.
25:28
Speaker 3: Do that, so I'll just the first event. It's it's
25:34
shamelessly self publicity here, I'm afraid. But it's an exhibition
25:41
of concrete poetry, which is where the poems, the subjects
25:46
of the poems are not just represented about the words,
25:49
but by the shape in which they're presented. So the
25:53
poem of the cross is in the shape of the cross. Yes,
25:57
So so it's it's my exhibition, it's my concrete poetry,
26:03
and it's going to be at Sint Helens Bookstop in
26:07
Bridge Street and it's from under the twenty seventh of
26:12
July until Saturday, the first of August. It does reflect
26:17
a lot about Saint Helens in it's just working there
26:23
representing light because our motto is sex Herouism. Out of
26:27
the earth can light and then glass because of the
26:30
glass industry. And there's a bell Robby who was hanged
26:34
with the Lancashire Riches, the Stimpson Helens. So but there
26:38
are other general poems in there. And I'm actually going
26:43
to be at the bookstop on Saturday the first of
26:46
August from eleven to one with a poetry reading at
26:51
eleven thirty. Now this is free but ticketed and you
26:58
can go online line for tickets at h G T
27:03
p S call on slash slash w w W dot
27:08
tickets dot com, slash slash Booking, slash t dash X
27:12
d G A b J. But well do Christos. I
27:16
shall send those details to yes short and you'll never
27:20
get those.
27:20
Speaker 2: Down the first three digits.
27:23
Speaker 3: Yes, so if I send them, send that through to Chrystal.
27:28
Speaker 2: Yes.
27:29
Speaker 3: You can go on their Instagram account Addison Towns Bookstop so.
27:33
Speaker 2: You can find it on the same talent's book.
27:35
Speaker 3: You find it on the short talents bookstop as well.
27:38
Speaker 2: Bookstop is it bookstop shot.
27:41
Speaker 3: Stop as in the book stops here?
27:43
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, that's great, that's good, and.
27:46
Speaker 3: It's yeah, so you go to the their biography and
27:51
then event tickets, so that might be a short way
27:55
fall else sales. You can just give them a rain
28:00
ants and tellings one seven four four nine o two
28:04
seven sixth eight.
28:05
Speaker 2: Yes, so it's the book stop, Saint Helen's book stop.
28:08
That's the easiest for me to have a look at that. Yes,
28:11
just repack the phone number as well.
28:13
Speaker 3: The phone number is one seven four four nine oh
28:19
two seven sixth eight.
28:21
Speaker 2: Okay, and that's your poem, sue.
28:24
Speaker 3: That you're reading my poet, Yes, my poetry. So there's
28:27
an exhibition and then we've just opened a second story
28:32
to this. It's actually called the second Story and it's
28:36
one of the first events to be on the still
28:39
feel very honored.
28:40
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, that's amazing.
28:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm selected.
28:45
Speaker 2: Come on, you've done a lot of stuff and a
28:47
lot of stuff for Saint Helen's too, haven't you.
28:49
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I haven't. And that leads me on to
28:52
this the second event which is a fund raising event.
28:56
There is a magazine in Saint Helens and when I
28:59
see you pass one of these onto you, it's Glass
29:02
Eye and it reflects the past as Sint Tennis for
29:05
the recent past as well, you know, the eighties and nineties,
29:09
and it also looks at future plans for some talents.
29:14
What's happening now. It's a community magazine, but it's completely unfunded.
29:19
So this is a fundraiser and it showcases some writers
29:23
and contributors of which I'm one. So I'm doing some
29:28
poetry about St Helens and about the area, about the
29:32
whole you know, Nursey Side area. And again that's at
29:36
the bookstop. Okay, but it's actually on Saturday, twenty fifth
29:40
of July and it starts at one thirty.
29:45
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, cool, But tickets a.
29:48
Speaker 3: Ten pounds for that. As I say, it's a fundraiser
29:51
and if a penny goes to the magazine and if
29:55
you go to We've got tickets dot com you will
29:58
find them there.
30:00
Speaker 2: Okay, cool? So what what what's the website that you
30:03
find the tickets on? Again?
30:04
Speaker 3: Can you repeat h two two ps colon slash slash
30:09
We've got tickets Okay, we got tickets dot com.
30:12
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, cool. Well yeah there, so.
30:17
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of just permanently moving into the bookstock.
30:20
Speaker 2: I don't blame you. Might be a bit cooler in there.
30:24
Speaker 3: I'm living there.
30:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think that suits you well. The books,
30:31
the bookstop.
30:33
Speaker 3: Yes, fabulous place, Christen you I'll have to take you in.
30:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, please do that's great.
30:39
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I'm a fabulous place.
30:41
Speaker 2: I'm planning a visit soon. So and we're eager to
30:44
listen to your poems now, all right.
30:47
Speaker 3: So these poems are They were originally to commemorate the
30:53
Bet of the Song, which was years on the first
30:58
of July, which was fought until the eighteenth of November
31:02
nineteen sixteen. I've had more than a million casualties.
31:07
Speaker 1: Wow.
31:07
Speaker 3: There was a second Battle of the Song which was
31:10
nineteen eighteen March through to April, but on the first
31:14
day sixty thousand casualties, twenty thousand killed in action and
31:20
it was the heavy space loss for the British Army.
31:25
A lot of people meant from Saint Helens went there
31:29
and my grandady survived, but he was a stretcher bearer.
31:34
So since Hellings Pals were very actively engaged at the
31:40
Battle of the Song, but one hundred and one thousand
31:45
and seven men signed up, but by the time nineteen
31:48
seventeen came there was only thirteen.
31:51
Speaker 2: Left from Saint Helens.
31:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was really you know, and a lot
31:58
of them left and went to the Lancashire fusionally and
32:01
so it's quite devastating. And then also Liddlepool had one
32:06
of the largest Pals battalions and on the first day
32:12
of the Song two hundreds of them were killed. At
32:17
the end of the war, twenty percent of the volunteers
32:20
have been killed and a further less fifty been injured.
32:24
So it's heartbreaking really in memory of the song, but
32:28
also everyone else who fought in the Great War and
32:33
other worlds as well, because I think the feelings run
32:36
through the same crystal. You know, the mode of fighting
32:40
might change, but I think the loss and sacrifice remains
32:44
the same.
32:44
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
32:45
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to take you back to when men
32:49
enlisted with this one and it's called Mammy, Mammy, Mammy, Mammy.
32:54
What's that sound? What's that sound? Mammy? The drums are
32:58
playing house up, playing church Bell's ring, and people sing
33:04
Mammy Mammy, where's our billy's colt? Where's our billy's court? Mammy,
33:08
Mammy mammy. Where are the boys going? Where the boy's going? Mammy?
33:13
I hear their boots, see their suits? I hear them talking,
33:16
watch them walking? Mammy mammy. Where's our billy's cat? Where's
33:21
our Billy's cat? Mammy? Mary Mammy? Can I go and see?
33:25
Can I go? See? Mammy? I'm only small, but I
33:28
won't fall? Is it a special day this Saturday? Mammy Mammy.
33:33
Where's our by's boots? Where's our Billy's boots? Mammy Mammy mammy.
33:38
Why do you cry? Where do you cry? Mammy? Is
33:42
it the rent money I'll spend? Is it the mine?
33:45
Is father si? Mammy Mammy? Where's our billy going? Where's
33:50
our bury going? Mammy mammy Mammy? Why did Billy hug me?
33:55
Why did Billy hug me? Mammy? He's going away to
33:59
fight that play. He's going to France to join the dance.
34:02
Mammy Mammy. Will he come back? Will he come back? Mammy? Oh?
34:10
Speaker 2: That's really amosic, that's really emosic.
34:13
Speaker 3: And the second one is do you remember, mate, Do
34:18
you remember mate, when you used to climb the gate
34:20
over our garden. We'd stand by the wall, little men,
34:24
standing tall. We'd climbed the jackets like bricks and sometimes fall.
34:29
Six years old with short pants and holes in our shoes.
34:33
With our best toy guns in hands, we could not lose,
34:37
and as we grew we would chalk our height with pride.
34:40
We knew we would go through life side by side.
34:44
Do you remember, mate, Ai? Do you remember, mate, standing
34:48
by the school wall by the rusting gate, watching all
34:51
the giggling girls walk by, never understanding why they made
34:55
those clever older boys side. Instead we would write our
34:59
name tie up on the bricks. One was here, so
35:03
was James. Do you remember, mat? Do you remember mate,
35:07
that August morning by the wall, by the gate of
35:11
the church hall. We were going to fight in France
35:14
and through the Great War the then a merry dance.
35:17
Church bells rang loud as the town came to enlissed.
35:21
This chance to travel the world could not be missed,
35:24
This chance to leave hunger behind, mines and grime, to
35:29
be a town par and do our bit and have
35:31
a great time. Do you remember, mate, Do you remember mate,
35:37
that horrific jewy day by the trench gate? Waiting for
35:41
the whistle signal to break through. We went forward, but
35:45
we were caught so few against so many guns. Over
35:48
the top dropped down, drowned in mud, soaked in blood.
35:52
Courageous pals fell down. Do you remember, mate, Hey? Do
35:58
you remember? Mate? Stood against the gate, facing our fate.
36:02
Placed roughly against the blood wet wall, we stir silently
36:06
as we stand ready to face our share of German fire.
36:10
They'll face down on the ground to depart. The fair
36:14
crumpled without the sound. Do you remember, mate? Oh?
36:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, really powerful?
36:23
Speaker 3: And this one is on the long road back, on
36:29
the long road back from hell. A mother stopped and asked,
36:32
in a quiet, calm voice, the tone of which I
36:35
knew so well, have you seen my son? Which son?
36:39
I asked? Which son? Now? To the thousands of suns
36:43
who have passed before me on this road, If it's
36:46
the sun I carried on who disappeared to Luana jeered
36:51
and speared amidst the howls of red coats covered in blood,
36:55
killed on that hot remorse as January day, when the
36:59
moon covered the sun and the sun died. Is it
37:02
he who lies half forgotten under the crumbling white cane
37:07
their vacant eyes looked at me. Have you seen my son?
37:12
She asked, despair forming in those neutral words. Is this
37:17
the sun? I said, you brought his lot at Spangkok,
37:21
now buried forgotten in a narrow, shallow trench carved out
37:25
of rock. Is it he who lies tangled and mangled
37:29
with his friends under that named the soldiers? She stared
37:33
at me, not seeing, not hearing. Have you seen my son,
37:38
she asked, the terror carved out these words? Is here
37:42
the sun who lay at the song, fear foaming on
37:45
the lips, mud filled lungs, choking his last words before
37:49
they had left his mouth? Is this the Sun whose
37:52
blackened body lies buried there? She looked at me with
37:57
unblinking eyes. Have you seen my son, she asked. I lodded,
38:02
but then I understood I had seen all her sons.
38:08
Speaker 2: Sue, that is so powerful. It just it just sums
38:13
up you know what those poor mothers had to go
38:16
through as well, you know, just sending your children off.
38:20
Speaker 3: It's always moves me. And I read it. You know,
38:24
it's yeah, so, And I think, as you say, it's
38:29
not just so too are lost. It's everybody that news
38:34
them is touched.
38:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just why you know, that's it's it's the thing,
38:39
isn't it. Why why do we have to have that
38:41
these mass murders, isn't it mass murderers?
38:45
Speaker 3: And it's so sad and it goes on today.
38:48
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely not good, not good at all. Well, that
38:53
was Thank you very much for reading those because that
38:55
was really really powerful, really powerful poetry.
39:00
Speaker 3: Thank you for giving me the opportunity as well.
39:02
Speaker 2: Anytime, anytimes. That's Sue Gerrard from Saint Helen's. That's your poems,
39:07
and we'll get some more, hopely next time. So let's
39:10
get back onto this. So Virginia Wolf to the Lighthouse
39:16
out of ten, Barry, what would you give it?
39:20
Speaker 5: Ooh?
39:23
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to go for nine, No way
39:26
out of ten. I'm shocked you're joking on you?
39:31
Speaker 4: Have you not been able to tell from the way
39:33
I've been talking about her that I thought that it
39:36
was pretty special?
39:37
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad you did, because obviously a lot of
39:40
people do as well. It's a very popular book.
39:43
Speaker 1: Sue.
39:45
Speaker 3: Oh, dear gosh, I sound like Claire level Heart was here.
39:50
Speaker 2: Six. Okay, guess what I'm going to give it two
39:56
and a half two and a half. I'm sorry, like.
40:03
Speaker 3: Half.
40:04
Speaker 2: Well, I only did that because I saw Barry's face
40:06
and I thought i'd better give it a half an
40:07
extra half.
40:09
Speaker 5: The difference.
40:13
Speaker 2: I get it, I do get it, and I think, yeah,
40:16
I understand what she was doing, but it's not really
40:19
the kind of novel that I would read usually. But
40:23
then we're all different, aren't we? And now what the
40:26
is the exciting time of with we have the tambourine
40:30
with our three book requests here. So let's say I'm
40:34
going to get Barry to pick out I.
40:36
Speaker 5: Chose last time, and I don't know what you were
40:38
awfully unhappy, So youtoe Barry.
40:43
Speaker 2: We were happy to have read the book, to have
40:45
read Virginia. Okay, got to keep my eyes closed. Let's
40:48
see who this is?
40:49
Speaker 3: Who is this?
40:50
Speaker 2: This is Gabriel's Moon, William Boyd. That's that's great, Yes,
40:57
so Gabriel's Moon William. We have read a William Boyd, haven't.
41:02
Speaker 3: We have it? Every heart matters, every heart matters.
41:07
Speaker 1: Not.
41:08
Speaker 2: It's quite a modern author, Am I right? He's not
41:10
an old Yes?
41:11
Speaker 3: That's right, Yes it is.
41:12
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh that'll be good. Yes, So I will just
41:15
briefly remind me of what the other book was about it.
41:19
Speaker 3: It's where it's all of the fortunes as one man,
41:23
really in diary like style, and it was looking at
41:26
the events of the twentieth century. Oh, yes, events and
41:31
his eyes.
41:32
Speaker 2: Oh I loved that. I did love that.
41:35
Speaker 3: That's why I've chose another one of his, because I
41:37
floughly enjoyed it. But I can't put it down. Compelling writing.
41:45
Speaker 2: It's called Gabriel's Move by William Boyd. Excuse me, well,
41:51
that's exciting. So we'll arrange off when we have another meeting,
41:55
but hopefully in a month. And everyone who's listening, I
41:58
just want to say if anybody he wants to come
42:00
to the radio and be part of our monthly reading room,
42:04
you are very welcome. You can call Liverpool Community Radio
42:09
on oh seven seven six one nine oh eight o
42:14
six three. I'll just repeat that number, so it's oh
42:18
seven seven six one nine oh eight oh six three.
42:24
You're welcome to come on the radio, read the book
42:26
and come on and talk about the book. Or you
42:29
can read the book at home and you could phone in,
42:32
or you could just read the book and listen to
42:34
our comments and see what you think. So everyone's welcome,
42:37
and I'll just remind you that the next book is
42:41
Gabriel's Moon William Boyd. So anything you want to add
42:47
from today's reading room.
42:49
Speaker 3: No, I think it's no. Thank you very much, christ Yeah.
42:53
Speaker 2: And Barry. Honestly, even though I didn't like the book,
42:55
as we said, I'm glad that I've read A Virginia
42:58
Wolf because it's it's a culture or thing, isn't it,
43:00
you know, And it's a different style of writing. And
43:03
we like to do that because I mean, for years
43:06
I just read all well and so it's nice to
43:09
be kind of veering off the path and discovering new
43:13
styles and new writers. Okay, so we'll meet again. Us
43:19
three will meet again in a month, Happy Thursday, and
43:25
speak to you soon.
43:27
Speaker 3: Bye bye bye