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If You Feel Drained Every Day, Watch This · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Welcome, dear listeners, to the Speak and Flow podcast, where we slow things down just a bit, so that we can help you communicate with clarity and confidence when it matters most.
• 0:14
  Melinda Lee: Each of our episodes are just 20 minutes, giving you practical tips to help you navigate in response to situations that are happening today within your work, at your world, within your community.
• 0:29
  Melinda Lee: Our topic is so important, because I feel like a lot of us probably have felt something like this. We might have felt exhausted, tired, unmotivated.
• 0:41
  Melinda Lee: We're talking about burnout. And so when does all this exhaustion actually turn into burnout?
• 0:48
  Melinda Lee: 55% of Americans are feeling burned out today.
• 0:52
  Melinda Lee: And so we really want to address today, how does this affect our communication, our leadership, and joining me is Dr. Radha… Dr. Radha Gupta Gupta. She is a clinical diagnostic leader. She is the VP of…
• 1:10
  Melinda Lee: Diagnostic? Wait, she's a VP of… Clinical Diagnostic at Nucleix.
• 1:16
  Melinda Lee: And then she also is so special, because she, intersects the science, leadership, and also real impact to people. And so I'm so pleased to have her on the show. Hi, Radha!
• 1:31
  Radha Duttagupta: Hi, Melinda, thanks for having me.
• 1:33
  Melinda Lee: I'm sorry about the clinical… I'm like,
• 1:37
  Radha Duttagupta: None of you got it right, so it's…
• 1:39
  Melinda Lee: Right?
• 1:39
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah, yeah, so I, I, my, my role is, so I've been in diagnostics, which is essentially building tests for
• 1:47
  Radha Duttagupta: healthcare diagnosis and treatment, pretty much throughout my career, and you know, I… the official title is Clinical Affairs, but it is to diagnostics, so you're absolutely good.
• 2:00
  Melinda Lee: And you know, there's so much research and work that you do with all this. I mean, just like I mentioned earlier, the science, but then also tying it back to how this all helps impact the people, and so we really appreciate all the work that you do behind this.
• 2:15
  Radha Duttagupta: Thank you.
• 2:16
  Melinda Lee: Or our health.
• 2:18
  Melinda Lee: And so today, we're talking about burnout, and when people, the listeners listen to this episode, what would you hope that changes in their world?
• 2:31
  Radha Duttagupta: I think, we are…
• 2:36
  Radha Duttagupta: in a… in a world that's moving really fast, and we are trying to build things, you know, quickly, and it's competitive, and it's great. But I think in that process, people take… forget to take time out, carve out time for themselves, and there is this,
• 2:53
  Radha Duttagupta: You know, there's this, you know, culture of just, you know, moving at rapid pace that's very, you know, detrimental and negative. So I think, you know, carving out time to talk about what
• 3:05
  Radha Duttagupta: healthy looks like, right? What good looks like in the workplace, and how you can, you know, invest in yourself to do better at your work. I think that's what I hope that we should be able to have a dialogue where people feel like, yes, you know, recognize if they're feeling overwhelmed, what does that look like, you know, how to…
• 3:23
  Radha Duttagupta: Have this self-awareness, how to kind of check yourself, perhaps, and then how to seek help, and how to kind of resolve it.
• 3:30
  Radha Duttagupta: So, you know, we want everybody to be healthy, happy, contributing.
• 3:35
  Radha Duttagupta: And the world is not that simple, so you need to learn how to navigate that, and I'm kind of hoping to have just a great conversation with you on that.
• 3:43
  Melinda Lee: Oh, I love that, and I appreciate your time and expertise on this, and you're right, because in our world today, we are rewarded and honored and respected when we are moving fast, and we can get things done. And if you're not one of those people, sometimes, often, we can be looked at as, there's something wrong with us, we're not good enough.
• 4:02
  Melinda Lee: And so then, it keeps…
• 4:04
  Radha Duttagupta: It'd be okay.
• 4:05
  Melinda Lee: methyl.
• 4:05
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah, I think… I think it is certainly a culture where, you know, work is rewarded, right? And work should be rewarded. But good work also comes from appropriate rest, right? So I think that's the connection, like, you… you will… it's just impossible, humanly, to keep on
• 4:23
  Radha Duttagupta: you know, moving at an unsustainable pace. You will have to take a rest. And, you know, your performance, and not just individually, your happiness, and as well as, you know, the work that you're contributing to, will be much more meaningful
• 4:37
  Radha Duttagupta: And, you know, far-reaching, and you're able to do that, you know, more long-term, if you take these many, you know, pauses to kind of reflect on where you are and recalibrate, right?
• 4:49
  Radha Duttagupta: So… so I think, and that's not something that is talked to us when we are growing up or entering the workplace, so… and I hope that for a lot of the younger listeners who are just joining in, and they may not have experienced any of this beforehand.
• 5:06
  Radha Duttagupta: You know, they take away some of these tools for themselves and just advocate for themselves on when they feel like they are overwhelmed or
• 5:15
  Radha Duttagupta: you know, it could also be triggered by being underwhelmed. I feel like burnout can be because of too much work, burnout can also be because of too little work. You're not challenged enough, you're not motivated, right? And you start to spiral. So, so I think all of those, and it is true that,
• 5:33
  Radha Duttagupta: The work culture, as you said, you know, reward is,
• 5:38
  Radha Duttagupta: again, very classically defined as progression in the career ladder, right? So I think it's also important to reflect on what is reward. Is it financial reward? Is it, like, mobility? It could also be just social rewards, right? Recognition, feeling good, feeling engaged with your peers, all of that. So… so, you know, I just hope the listeners are able to take away a little bit of, you know, maybe pearls of wisdom from at least what my
• 6:03
  Radha Duttagupta: experiences have been over the years.
• 6:04
  Melinda Lee: Yes, and I know that they will. And so, what is burnout, though? I mean, because I think many of us probably have had moments where we're tired or exhausted, but what is the definition of burnout? Yes. So, I think I want to just start by saying that.
• 6:21
  Radha Duttagupta: it is real. Burnout is a real thing, it is not an imagined condition, and it is, it is not also a disease, right? It's not like you have a burnout gene, somebody has it, somebody doesn't, and then you're susceptible, right? So everybody is, you know, capable of experiencing burnout, and, you know, when I was preparing for this call, I started to look into
• 6:46
  Radha Duttagupta: it, and I found that there's actually an official definition of burnout by the World Health Organization, which publishes these standards for, you know, disease and other medical condition, you know, definitions. And it's essentially defined as chronic stress which is experienced in the workplace, right? It's very clear that it's something that is associated with the workplace.
• 7:11
  Radha Duttagupta: And it can look like, you know, you're very negative about your work, you're not excited, you're depleted, you're, you know, kind of emotionally and energetically depleted or exhausted, and manifests itself as loss of performance.
• 7:27
  Radha Duttagupta: So, you're just not into it. So this is the official definition, and, you know, I'm glad that there is, in fact, I don't want to call it a diagnosis, but, you know, there is a term, there's a specific label that the medical professional
• 7:43
  Radha Duttagupta: Professionals are using to help, you know, help narrow it down, and then come up with, you know, how to navigate a recovery from it.
• 7:52
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, and what would communication look like for someone that is burned out?
• 7:58
  Radha Duttagupta: I think it's very, staccato, it's very… I think the first thing you feel is there's a loss of energy, right? There's a loss of cognitive capacity, and you are just not into it, so…
• 8:13
  Radha Duttagupta: It comes out as very short.
• 8:15
  Radha Duttagupta: Like, okay, alright, will do, thank you.
• 8:20
  Radha Duttagupta: And it's not like you're fully engaged that, hey, how are you? I'm really excited to do this, tell me more about it. So it's more driven by kind of a very transactional, rather than by true curiosity.
• 8:32
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 8:32
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah. Right? So it's not asking questions, it's not wanting to know how this connects to the bigger picture, right? It's just like, tell me what to do.
• 8:42
  Radha Duttagupta: you know, when does it just tell me when you need it by, I'll get it done. So… so that's one thing I've found common. I think the, the other thing I often, see, it's just… it's,
• 8:56
  Radha Duttagupta: just a little bit of a withdrawal from everything, right? Not just work, but even in your social connections, right? And it's a lot of cognitive overload as well, like losing thread of things, right? Can you tell me again what you just said? I thought it got taken care of, so not really tracking to…
• 9:14
  Radha Duttagupta: overall how things, you know, what was done, and missing… missing key details. So you're just checked out, essentially.
• 9:21
  Melinda Lee: Right, right.
• 9:22
  Radha Duttagupta: who, you know, asking repetitive questions and giving short answers, not leading with curiosity, and just kind of, like, tell me what to do, I'll get it done. You know, those are very classic symptoms of, you know, not being engaged and beginning to withdraw and, you know, experiencing that.
• 9:40
  Melinda Lee: And as an observer, it might, for me, it might seem like, oh, this person doesn't care, or this person might have other things they're taking care of, and… but what could be possibly going on underneath all of that?
• 9:56
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah, so, I mean, I think it depends, right? If somebody that you have worked with for a long time, and you kind of know a before, then you have something to compare to. And, you know, you can easily contrast that this is not normal, right? There's something going on.
• 10:11
  Radha Duttagupta: And, you know, as managers, you know, we should be looking after our teams, and it's like, okay, is this something personal, right? Do you need some time off work? Like, what would make this easier for you?
• 10:22
  Radha Duttagupta: Right? And, but it may not be something personal. It may just be too much work and constant work, never-ending work.
• 10:32
  Radha Duttagupta: And again, going back to fast cultures, we also have
• 10:36
  Radha Duttagupta: You know, a tendency to reward
• 10:38
  Radha Duttagupta: high performance with more… performance with more work, right? So work flows to the competence. So, you know, a lot of people who are high performance feel they're in a cycle, because it never ends, and in a way, they essentially normalize that for themselves. This is, you know, this is what great performance looks like. They start to mix it up with their identity and self-worth.
• 10:59
  Melinda Lee: Right? Which is where it starts getting very tricky, because then they start to deprioritize self-care.
• 11:05
  Radha Duttagupta: Over what the… all the values put in, you know, getting the work product done.
• 11:11
  Melinda Lee: Right, right. Well, I've been in work organizations where they actually are not able to take time off.
• 11:19
  Melinda Lee: They are required to continue to work, and continue to… there's… even if they said something.
• 11:26
  Melinda Lee: there's no backup, there's no… what would I do in this situation if I'm genuinely… I'm short, I'm burned out, but then there's no help?
• 11:39
  Melinda Lee: That's a difficult one.
• 11:41
  Radha Duttagupta: It's a difficult one. I think all of us kind of experience that.
• 11:46
  Radha Duttagupta: In our work life at different times, right? Sometimes, perhaps for a longer period than we would like to.
• 11:53
  Radha Duttagupta: I think it's really important to recognize that, is it short-lived, or is this what my job is always going to look like, right? So, day in, day out, it's not going to change. That is where the problem is, right? So, I think we, you know, most people who are
• 12:10
  Radha Duttagupta: In the workforce, and want to do…
• 12:15
  Radha Duttagupta: Or what to do, like, build important things, you know, do exciting stuff, you know, have some, you know, kind of value in what they are doing.
• 12:24
  Radha Duttagupta: they recognize that it's not clock in, clock out, right? Work is complex, and it will spill over at times. And that's okay, right? So, but being sure that there are some guardrails around
• 12:38
  Radha Duttagupta: you know, how much it spills over. I think that's important, and that's the conversation one has to have with one's manager. Like, look, you know, I need a break. I mean, I need to piss myself. I have other responsibilities.
• 12:51
  Radha Duttagupta: And especially, and I don't want to kind of say that if you have a family of more responsibility than versus not.
• 12:58
  Radha Duttagupta: Yes, you know, there are, you know, practical things you have to do more. You do…
• 13:03
  Radha Duttagupta: you do have… your time is more constrained, you know, other people are sharing into that time, but even with people without children, right, for example, right? They have an absolute same, you know, right to access personal time to take care of themselves. Yeah. So, I don't think it should be, you know, generalized, and for managers, that's also important to recognize, right? So, just to make sure that
• 13:27
  Radha Duttagupta: everybody's needs are different, and that they make sure that it's not overwhelming for a very, very long stretch of time. An ideal situation is that you plan so it's never overwhelming, right? But…
• 13:43
  Radha Duttagupta: work is not like that. You know, the reality of work is, yes, there will be cycles of, you know, extreme work and, you know, slightly slower work.
• 13:51
  Radha Duttagupta: And if you see it coming, so better planning, then you can prepare your personal… yourself personally as well for that, right? You know, I have, my kids are older now, but when they were young, you know, make arrangements for who's going to pick them up, who's going to give them dinner, like, all of this takes planning.
• 14:09
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah. So, you know, having work, you know, shoved at your plate at the very last minute is difficult. So, planning, it's very difficult. So, planning.
• 14:18
  Radha Duttagupta: then, you know, having a really good and open, transparent relationship with your peers, with your manager, as like, hey, I can't stay beyond this time, right? I have to do something, so can somebody pick it up?
• 14:31
  Radha Duttagupta: Or, you know, if your work allows you to do it from home, then I have to take care of this, and I will get it done later. So… but making sure that there are, you know, guardrails around how that looks like, and it's not always like that.
• 14:47
  Radha Duttagupta: And, you know, having, and you could go up to your manager and say that, look, you know, this is how I can do it, and is that okay, right? Can someone… you know, just lay it out, come up with a solution. I think that's really important, right? Come up with a solution, and talk through it.
• 15:05
  Melinda Lee: Right. I think that managers can see when, especially if it's a long… and I'm thinking about my client, who had a really long project runway. It was 3 years long, the people, they were all great employees, but they, were on the verge of burnout, or were already burned out, and they knew they had another two and a half years left, or a year and a half. And then, so, yeah, setting up the guardrails is so important, because
• 15:30
  Melinda Lee: when a leader sees you burned, they don't want you burned out. So, setting up guardrails, saying, hey, today I could do XYZ.
• 15:39
  Melinda Lee: And this is what I'm going to do. Because there's probably a million other things that are happening and need to get done, and that's why people are feeling overwhelmed, because there's so many things.
• 15:48
  Radha Duttagupta: Yes.
• 15:48
  Melinda Lee: So, if we can just be clear, what are the three things that we can get done today, and these are the guardrails that we're setting up for us. So, to protect me, to protect the project, to protect the leader, because, you know, and genuinely, this is honestly what I can get done today, and just having that honest conversation.
• 16:05
  Radha Duttagupta: Yes, I think where a leader can help you is really aligning on the priorities, right?
• 16:11
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, right.
• 16:12
  Radha Duttagupta: are the top two things. Yeah, get this done today, the rest can wait till next week. You know, it can look like that. But I'm happy if you do XYZ by end of the day today.
• 16:25
  Radha Duttagupta: And do not worry about everything, anything else. So, a leader can also help navigate that by, you know, boundaries are again linked to what is important to get done, right? So, a lot of time,
• 16:37
  Radha Duttagupta: we don't know, right, what is important. So that's where the, the alignment and having a very open discussion around, tell me the priorities.
• 16:46
  Radha Duttagupta: And, and then you kind of have your, okay, other than that, I'm not going to do anything else, right?
• 16:52
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:52
  Radha Duttagupta: everything else, like, have a, like, do not do list and say, this will have to wait till next week. I'm not going to do this today. And be very clear, right? So I think really prioritizing where you put your time to.
• 17:08
  Radha Duttagupta: And what you want to do is put your time to what is valuable for your organization and for your workplace, right? And being very clear that if the rest is delayed, that it's okay.
• 17:20
  Radha Duttagupta: So… so I think having a very open conversation around that is helpful.
• 17:26
  Radha Duttagupta: And, and…
• 17:28
  Radha Duttagupta: And if something is coming from left field all the time, then that's a problem… problematic. Which happens a lot today. Yes.
• 17:36
  Radha Duttagupta: Hmm.
• 17:37
  Melinda Lee: And what do you think people can do when that happens?
• 17:41
  Radha Duttagupta: I mean, I think, you know, you… if it's happening chronically, and you have no control over it, then you really have to think… I mean, you try and understand, right, with your managers, if it can be changed, or if you can influence it to have more, you know, control over the flow of the work, right?
• 18:00
  Radha Duttagupta: But, you know, sometimes you just don't have control over it, and that is… that is it, and maybe that's not the right place for you then.
• 18:07
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, just having these honest conversations with the manager and ourselves.
• 18:13
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah, and I would say that, look, you know, not everybody, you know, it's not so easy to just say, this is not the right place for me, and I'm going to walk away. I think, it's recognizing that you will not be able to control this, and this is what it is, right? And you can accept it.
• 18:30
  Radha Duttagupta: you are… and you need to really ask yourself, then, why are you here? Like, what are you… what are you hoping to achieve? If this is causing you so much grief in terms of work-life balance, why are you here, right? I think that's a really important question. And, you know, depending on that.
• 18:46
  Radha Duttagupta: the answers may lead you to very different directions. You may decide that this is not the way you want to work, and you're going to go do something else. Or you say, okay, this is, this is, I don't like how this is going, but
• 19:03
  Radha Duttagupta: This is the reality, I need to do this, and I'm going to find other ways to self-care so I don't feel so overwhelmed.
• 19:11
  Radha Duttagupta: Finding ways to…
• 19:13
  Radha Duttagupta: just relax, find doing things that are fun and meaningful in your life, right? You know, not tying your identity completely to that one thing, you know, finding… doing other things where people value you. I think that's really important. A lot of it, I feel, is not feeling valued. You know, burnout is… there's a physical component of it, like, there's, you know, so many hours that you can sit and do something.
• 19:36
  Melinda Lee: But it's also linked to, are you adding value, are you feeling appreciated, and all of that.
• 19:42
  Radha Duttagupta: So… so I think, you know, if you accept the situation that, you know, you can't influence any change, and you need to be in that, then find other ways of protecting your
• 19:54
  Radha Duttagupta: You know, protecting your mind, protecting your health, you know, protecting how you perceive yourself. And, you know, have… build agency over yourself.
• 20:06
  Radha Duttagupta: Right? So… and that could look like…
• 20:09
  Radha Duttagupta: finding new hobbies, or finding other things to do, which, again, you know, in a situation like this, you have no time, sounds like this is a scenario where somebody's so overworked that there is no time, but I think you can still carve out time for key conversations here and there, for self… kind of self-preservation. And you've got to make that time.
• 20:27
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 20:28
  Radha Duttagupta: Yes.
• 20:28
  Melinda Lee: Especially with the manager or with yourself, to really have that time, because if you're constantly on the go, you know, these are the moments like this, that where we need to slow things down to really break things down, you know, break things up and see what's happening, see what we can do about it, or even if you don't have all the answers, but at least
• 20:47
  Melinda Lee: You have more of awareness of what's going on versus constantly going, going, and not really aware of what's happening.
• 20:55
  Melinda Lee: But talking to other people about it so that you can have more awareness and start to have conversations.
• 21:03
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Melinda Lee: are important,
• 21:05
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah, and then, you know, so…
• 21:08
  Radha Duttagupta: there are different little toolkits and questionnaires that, you know, it's been published over the years in this field. Harvard Business Review has a really good, like, 2-minute burnout checklist, where they have, like, six kind of pillars around, like, your value, your commitment, your kind of workload, you know, how professionally connected you are to your community.
• 21:33
  Radha Duttagupta: And, you know, it really gets into the core of
• 21:37
  Radha Duttagupta: How much is your workload? Are you feeling valued, right?
• 21:41
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:41
  Radha Duttagupta: Do you feel like you have some autonomy over your situation, or you're, you know, there's just so much of micromanaging or control by others that you have zero control, right? And are you feeling rewarded? It could be financially, or it could be, you know, socially, like recognition, feeling like you're included.
• 21:58
  Radha Duttagupta: you know, part of bigger things. Are you feeling like you're going somewhere with this, right? And not all of that is financial. I think there's a lot of value, for example, I put in just learning
• 22:10
  Radha Duttagupta: gathering knowledge and being in a great place, which might be high pressure, but there are others with more experience from whom you're learning. I mean, you're not going to find this learning elsewhere. So I think you have to kind of look very critically at, you know, what you're gaining out of this.
• 22:26
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 22:27
  Radha Duttagupta: Right? And, and then, you know, and is that important to you?
• 22:31
  Melinda Lee: Right. This may not be important to everyone.
• 22:34
  Radha Duttagupta: Right. So, right? And then, I mean, do you have a community around you? It could be your colleagues, it could be people outside work that, you know, that you can talk to, that can resonate, that you can use as a, you know, the soundboard, sounding board for ideas. So, if you don't have any of this.
• 22:53
  Radha Duttagupta: Then, you know, you're in a funk, and you.
• 22:56
  Melinda Lee: You're in a burnout. I mean, I think whoever's listening to this has to really think about this, because I think when people are burned out, they can only see work. They're only thinking about work and all the things that they have to get done, and feeling so overwhelmed, and then they're completely disconnected. There's, like you said, this Harvard Business Review test, burnout test.
• 23:14
  Melinda Lee: Is actually measuring so many components that are
• 23:17
  Melinda Lee: to work, which are your values, which are your community, which are your fulfillment, and when someone's burnt out, I don't even think they're seeing any of that.
• 23:26
  Radha Duttagupta: They're not, they're not, and you know…
• 23:29
  Radha Duttagupta: it's so narrow, right? You're kind of, like, in a well, and you just don't know. And, you know, some of the way… and we talked about, you know, communication. I think the other piece is you just feel like doing anything, right? You lose interest in the things that you enjoyed doing before, right? That's the funk, right? You don't want to go to your exercise class, you don't feel like picking up a book and reading.
• 23:52
  Radha Duttagupta: don't want to cook, you know? You just want to, kind of.
• 23:55
  Radha Duttagupta: you know, you're existing in this limbo, right, where you're unable to activate yourself to do anything. So I think those are some of the symptoms, to look out for, the things that gave you joy before. Is it not giving you joy now, right? And why is that?
• 24:12
  Radha Duttagupta: I think that's a very simple.
• 24:14
  Melinda Lee: Hours at work.
• 24:15
  Radha Duttagupta: Yeah!
• 24:15
  Melinda Lee: to have a work and life at work with so much joy, as much as we can.
• 24:21
  Radha Duttagupta: And, you know, a very simple, kind of, like, my internal check is.
• 24:27
  Radha Duttagupta: try to do that thing, and if it's not giving you joy, right, then this is not stress. This is, like, you are just so chronically fatigued that you're not being able to even enjoy and, you know, get out and do all the things. So, if this was just a, you know, temporary overwork situation.
• 24:45
  Radha Duttagupta: Then you should be able to go back to doing things that, you know, give you happiness.
• 24:49
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 24:49
  Radha Duttagupta: So, right? But if you're not, then… then you… I think when you're… when you're in a funk.
• 24:55
  Radha Duttagupta: and you realize you're in a funk. Then, I think it needs some really active intervention, and I'm not saying that you have to go and see a therapist, you can do it to yourself, where you recognize it and say, I am going to make time for doing XYZ every day.
• 25:10
  Radha Duttagupta: To feel good, right?
• 25:12
  Radha Duttagupta: So… so, I think the first step is the realization, and the second step is, you know, what are you going to do about it? You know, it could go look like, you know, talk to a professional. It can go… it could look like doing something by yourself, or with people that, you know, you… you trust in your life. Could be family, could be friends, so…
• 25:34
  Radha Duttagupta: So, inter… like, taking very active intervention at that point.
• 25:38
  Melinda Lee: I love it, I love it. And so, what is the one key takeaway that you would want people to remember?
• 25:46
  Melinda Lee: I think surround yourself with people that you really admire and respect.
• 25:51
  Radha Duttagupta: And who will help you, who will genuinely help you in your journey, and you'll be okay.
• 25:57
  Radha Duttagupta: So, I think finding these people in your life, once you find them, hold onto them.
• 26:03
  Radha Duttagupta: And, you know, they can look like your grade school friend. They could look like people that you have met in your first job, right? They don't have to be people who you're currently working with.
• 26:17
  Radha Duttagupta: So, I think finding, and… but you should be look finding… I mean, I think if you can't find a single person in your current environment that meets that bill.
• 26:26
  Radha Duttagupta: That is a problem. So try and find… they exist, right? So you have to go and find them, and you have to build those relationships with them, and, you know, kind of advocate for them, you know, advocate for yourself through them, where, you know, they can help you. So if you're in a really difficult situation at work, you know, they can help.
• 26:44
  Radha Duttagupta: put in a good word, you know, you can kind of, get that groundswell of support that you need sometimes from others. So… so I think, yeah, you know, find these people, hold on to them.
• 26:57
  Radha Duttagupta: And make them your really closest confidante, believe in yourself, and, you know, take…
• 27:05
  Radha Duttagupta: you know, hear these podcasts, there are a lot of information out there. You know, kind of empower yourself with the tools. You're not alone. Other people have experienced this, and you… if you're somebody who's experiencing burnout, you will get through it. Believe in that.
• 27:19
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, surround yourself with the right people, and you will get through that.
• 27:24
  Melinda Lee: Oh, thank you so much, Dr. Rada. Dr. Rada, Vice President of Clinical Affairs at Netflix. I nailed it.
• 27:35
  Melinda Lee: Thank you so much, it was really fun.
• 27:38
  Radha Duttagupta: No, this was super fun, Melinda. Thank you so much, and I really admire your tackling all these issues. It's so relevant and so important.
• 27:45
  Melinda Lee: Thank you, thank you, and thank you, listeners, for joining. Until next time, remember, anytime you have an opportunity to speak, you also are connecting and making a positive difference in the world. Until next time, take care, bye-bye.
• 28:00
  Radha Duttagupta: Bye, everyone.
• 28:01
  Melinda Lee: Bye!
• 28:02
  Radha Duttagupta: Bye.