Latest / She Speaks to Scale / 16. An Actor's Approach to Breath, Body and Being Heard, with Hannah Douglas
Transcript
- Sarah Collins: My guest today is Hannah Douglas, Thank you for listening to this episode of She Speaks to Scale. If you liked the episode or you think it will be useful for someone else, please follow and leave a review. If you've got any questions, do let me know via the social handles in the show notes. And remember to speak with intention, not hesitation, and let your voice be heard. Hannah, thank you so much joining me today. ⁓ who is an award-winning actress ⁓ and founder of Loud Her Coaching. Her work spans British independent film, international TV dramas, and theatre from Shakespeare to new writing in London and around the world, as well as performance capture. Her role is Sigrid in Norse Oath of Blood, a video game now available across all major gaming platforms. Hannah Douglas: Thank you for having me. Sarah Collins: Now, Hannah and I met whilst we were performing in amateur dramatics. It was a company in Southwest London, and it was, dare I say, probably over 20 years ago that we actually first met. It was Jesus Christ Superstar, wasn't it? That was our first show that we did together. Hello and welcome to She Speaks to Scale with me, Sarah Collins. The podcast that empowers women in business to own their voice, be heard and create impact, one communication insight at a time. I'm a media trainer and communication coach and a former senior television producer. It's my mission to bring the communication skills we need to thrive in today's world of business to the generation of women who simply weren't taught them. Let's get into the conversation. Hannah Douglas: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And quite interesting when you look back and think I was, I think 15 or 16. And we were, I don't know if you, were we were Herod's girls or I was? You were. Okay, I was Herod's girls and a leper, of course. And I just remember that I was wearing like a PVC apron and pants and heels, which is quite wrong when you look back and think I was. Sarah Collins: Alongside acting, Hannah founded Loud Her, offering public speaking and voice coaching for women and teams. Loud Her brings actor-based tools into the workplace, helping women feel grounded under pressure, speak with clarity and confidence, and discover the power of their voice. I wasn't, I wasn't actually. Whether it's scaling your voice to step into thought leadership in a media interview, speaking with confidence on camera, on stage and beyond, or scaling the way you communicate when it really counts. This podcast will help you use your voice to be heard in the moments that matter. Hannah Douglas: I'm pretty quite young. Sarah Collins: I didn't quite realize how young you were at that time, actually. what we're going to about today, obviously your studies and your career and going into your business that you now own. ⁓ I knew you way back before any of that existed, is amazing. So Hannah, I begin every guest episode by asking, ⁓ After becoming a mum, Hannah met so many brilliant women who felt unheard or anxious returning to work, and Loudher was created to change that. Hannah Douglas: ⁓ Yeah. Sarah Collins: When was the kind of pivotal moment that you realized that your voice truly mattered? Hannah Douglas: was having a think about this. And interestingly, even I went to drama school ⁓ and been an actor for a long time, ⁓ I think the moment when I really realised it mattered was when I had my little boy and I became a mum, ⁓ because suddenly realised that my voice mattered a lot in terms of talking to him and how I raise him and how I choose to speak to him. especially with him being a little boy, it suddenly became really, really important to me that I'm careful with my words, with, you know, I think a lot about how I speak with him and to him and also about myself and to myself. So that was really the moment because interestingly before that, even though I've always been an actor, I didn't love speaking as myself. I liked being a character. But when I had Leo, ⁓ realised I wanted him to see me speak with confidence and speak as myself so that he ⁓ can that my voice matters and also that women's voices matter as well. So it was really that moment, I think. ⁓ Sarah Collins: That's fascinating because that's quite far into your career then, isn't it? Actually. And I want to delve into all those years. You mentioned so many things there that I know we're going to talk about and address. When we go back, what really led you to go into acting? suppose, specifically if you found talking as yourself quite challenging. Hannah Douglas: well, when I was a kid, I think I was a lot more confident and I don't really remember the decision to go into acting. It just happened. I've done it since I was a kid. I've always loved performing. I think I just came out of the womb dancing, ⁓ unfortunately my mum. And yeah, I don't really remember the decision. I always did, you know, shows, did amateur dramatics, did dancing, I did singing. ⁓ I always loved it. I did a bit of professional stuff when I was a kid and a teenager. So it just seemed like the natural thing to want to go to drama school. I loved becoming ⁓ a character. I kind of fully immersing myself in the story. So I suppose reading it wasn't enough for me. It was, I really wanted to be in that story. So ⁓ yeah, I that just always there. And then I went to drama school and still loved it. ⁓ it just kind of continued, but ⁓ never really remember a specific moment of going, ⁓ that's what I want to do. Cause it just always seemed to be there. Sarah Collins: You're obviously following your passion, which is amazing to be able to do that, isn't it? Hannah Douglas: Yeah Yeah, and it's a very hard passion to follow. Because it's so much, I still love it when you're doing it. The hardest bit about being an actor is when you're not acting, of which there are plenty of times when you're not doing it. So it's a difficult passion to follow because, it's a really tough industry and it's very competitive and, Sarah Collins: you Hannah Douglas: doesn't have as much funding as it should, especially at the moment. So it's a tricky one to pursue. ⁓ But do think was lucky in that I always had this passion and I always knew what I wanted to do. Whereas I know a lot of people don't have that. Sarah Collins: What was it about that element of using your voice as different characters? What was it that kind of drew you to that so much? Hannah Douglas: in the beginning, I suppose it really fun. I always loved accents and still do. So I'd always play around with accents. think ⁓ also there's a big age between my and I. So there's 12 years between us. So I had a lot of time ⁓ on my own when I was a kid. I often made up stories and did radio shows and myself and my friend Holly, who you knew also did shows as well. We'd make up loads of radio shows and become all the characters. And I think there was just something really fun in giving each character a different voice or trying to imitate people. I used to do that quite a lot as well. So really, it was just kind of a joy of exploring these different voices and how they sounded different. Also, interestingly, my family are from, my mum's family from Manchester ⁓ and my was originally from Scotland, though he moved from there when he was about four. So he never had a Scottish accent. But whenever he met a Scottish person, he suddenly had a Scottish accent. It was really embarrassing. But when I used to go up to Manchester and I used to play with the kids who lived near my nana. I hated them calling me posh because I had a London accent and I hated it so much so I just used to put on a Manchester accent. ⁓ I think some of it was also kind of trying to become someone else and maybe hide a little bit from who I was. Other accents seemed far more interesting and far more exciting so I'd kind of, yeah, imitate them. ⁓ Sarah Collins: That's really fascinating. And there's someone who cannot do accents whatsoever. Hannah Douglas: You can, I've things I can't do, I expect. Sarah Collins: I wouldn't even like to cry, Hannah, tell us about your career then. So you went to drama school. ⁓ How was that? And you're an award-winning Tell us more about the work you've done since then. Hannah Douglas: Yeah. I studied at school for three years and I had a great time. We did all these mad, wonderful voice movement exercises, which I kind of now realize it was all about figuring out and sort of stripping away your own ⁓ habits and where you hold the and things like that, so that then you could become a character more freely. if you were to... ⁓ like beer flower on the wall, a drama score. It looks mad. Bonkers. I think I spent an entire month at one point in animal studies being a Komodo dragon, which is quite hard actually, because it's like a permanent press up. So yeah, there were moments where you're like, what am I doing? But it was great. Sarah Collins: HMMMM Hannah Douglas: when I left, did ⁓ lot of theatre. I kind of toured ⁓ all over the UK. I internationally as well. Everything really from Shakespeare new writing, comedy, ⁓ darker stuff, family shows, all of things. And I did a little bit film here and there. and then knew that was something I always have loved is ⁓ the film of things and TV side of things. So I ⁓ slowly got little bit more into that. And then I up getting cast in a called Lapwing, which was my first lead in a feature film, which came out a few years ago. And it was this beautiful, very, very dark. beautifully brutal, we'll say film that's in the 1500s. And about a woman who was with a stammer, which at that time ⁓ was accepted at all. So she's much kind of an outcast of society. And ⁓ she ⁓ selective So she kind of held quite a lot of power, even though ⁓ didn't use voice very much apart from singing. it was a really interesting one, especially now going more into voice side of things. Interesting that ⁓ part, ⁓ which the I won an award for, was one where she really speak. So it was an incredible, incredible experience. amazing, beautiful film. something I'm really, really proud of. So after that, I kind of went a bit more into doing the film side of things. So did a couple of other films and then ⁓ my little So ⁓ it's slightly acting wise since having a baby, but starting to pick up ⁓ a little bit now. And I've done a couple of jobs with him as well. ⁓ Sarah Collins: ⁓ lovely. Hannah Douglas: Really nice. last year, I did a couple of filming jobs and he came to set with me. One of the films he's got a cameo in starting him So that was really nice to kind of have him see what I do and be part of that ⁓ was really exciting. Sarah Collins: ⁓ that's incredible. And I just want to go back to that character that you spoke about because, passion is all about effective communication and I'm fascinated by you played this character that was essentially mute throughout the film. one of the things we about obviously is using your body, isn't it? Nonverbal communication being equally as important about what you say. ⁓ Hannah Douglas: Yeah. Sarah Collins: So how did you portray that character through your body, if you couldn't use your voice? I don't know, tell me a little bit more about that. Hannah Douglas: We shot the entire film, an entire feature film in, I think, days, which is insane. It was very, very intense. I had an idea at the beginning that I was to ⁓ not speak for the entire thing. think I did three days ⁓ of not speaking, which was quite long time for me. ⁓ And that actually was enough. Sarah Collins: Wow. Hannah Douglas: to be able to feel what it feels like when you're around people and you can't use your voice as you would like to. How do you communicate? So at the beginning, we were filming kind of behind the scenes, trying to get to know some of my co-stars, we were using a board, ⁓ so I was writing things ⁓ But actually you kind of realize how after a while it does just become easier to just take a step back It was really hard trying to communicate with people ⁓ and interesting that people started talking me or actually wouldn't ask me certain things. ⁓ And some of the runners, I people kind of at one point were like, ⁓ Sarah Collins: Mm. Hannah Douglas: almost a bit tentative around me because they knew I wasn't speaking. it was very, very interesting watching how other people changed towards me as well as kind of the frustrations I felt within myself. But I did really get from it was, the power. because I think something that we are all so frightened of when we speak is silence and using pauses. Like we always rush to build silences. And, I'm sure that's something you speak about a lot, ⁓ I about a lot. So actually really leaning into it and feeling the power that that gives you was so fascinating. And myself and Emmett, he was my co-star, ⁓ he commented ⁓ certain scenes that we filmed, he was like, Oh God, it felt quite unnerving and quite unsettling and threw him a little bit. Because I just often had to use like the power of eye contact, whether you're looking away or looking at someone. And really feeling everything in your body. Sarah Collins: Yeah. Hannah Douglas: was quite freeing in a way actually and quite powerful. Sarah Collins: That's really interesting. ⁓ before we go to speak about what you do now, ⁓ something that I know listeners be thinking, and you referenced it at the start, was ⁓ having that lack of confidence. listening were probably thinking, well, surely actors ⁓ are confident ⁓ because, they get up on I know performed to really large theaters. ⁓ Hannah Douglas: Okay. Sarah Collins: big audiences, what would you say to that? Hannah Douglas: It's such a myth. always thinks that if you're an actor, you must be really, really confident. ⁓ And actors are some of the least confident people. As I at the start, I loved playing a character. I loved being other people. I didn't really want to be me. ⁓ I was, yeah, of it is hiding behind ⁓ a character. ⁓ whenever we any kind of public speaking, ⁓ any family like if someone needed to make a speech, my sister was always and still is the person who will give a speech. I kind of had to do a bit of digging to figure out where this came from. And I think a lot of it comes from school for me came from ⁓ secondary school because I think teenagers can be incredibly brutal. I such an enthusiastic kid who just loved ⁓ And I started being given labels of being a too much or a bit too ⁓ confident or, full of myself. So that was just horrendous to me that I just shrunk myself to fit in. And I think it's interesting that some of those labels, they're given more to girls than they are to boys. ⁓ So I think lot of it, came from school. But I don't think it was really ⁓ I became a mum that I found the confidence speaking as me ⁓ in of, big groups of people. I could talk for England in front of like smaller groups of people. But I think it was really becoming a mum that gave me more of a sense who I was and ⁓ allowing myself. to speak confidently and realizing that that's okay, that I don't have to apologize for who I am and I don't have to apologize for speaking a certain way. Sarah Collins: Mm. Hmm. I'm sorry you experienced that. I've got two girls, both at secondary school and, particularly one of them. Hannah Douglas: And. Sarah Collins: isn't phased yet as to what other people think. And I just really hope that stays because I hear so many stories like what you've just said about just little things that people have said that make you shrink, make your voice shrink, make you shrink as a person. And that does stay with us, doesn't it? Hannah Douglas: Yeah. It really does. It really does. And it really stays in your body, I think, as well. And that's something that I'm learning more and more. Sarah Collins: in your notes, you said about the connection between the voice and the body. And I'm sure this is ⁓ part of the work that do, but what do you mean when you say that? Hannah Douglas: So when we experience any ⁓ form kind of trauma, whether that's like big trauma, ⁓ horrible happening to us, or small trauma, such as people giving you labels at schools, one person's commenting on something, we often ourselves off from breathing more fully. And that's... can then mean that we get used to breathing a bit more shallow, kind of up in your chest. So we sort of lose connection with allowing ourselves to breathe fully. And if we're not breathing fully and we don't have that full support system, then that affects our voice because it makes you feel like you can't use your voice properly. You can't the volume or the clarity that you want. which then affects your confidence how are you supposed to confidently stand in front of people and speak if you don't have that breath support system working for you. So just as, any movement physio people will tell you things that happened to you in life, sit in your body, you tension you're breathing, that is a sign of ⁓ that have happened in your life as well. Sarah Collins: I can tell you're really passionate about it. This passion obviously you to start your own business. So tell us a little bit more about that inspiration doing that. Hannah Douglas: Yes. yeah, as said, when I became a mum, ⁓ I met many ⁓ incredible women ⁓ for some felt like they weren't being heard properly at work, but not just at work ⁓ in life. ⁓ I think if you're kind of going back into the workplace for whatever reason, whether it's because you've had a baby or because you've been off for a while, it can often feel really, daunting and you feel like you've lost your voice and you feel like you're not kind of using it in the way that you want to. I suppose speaking to so many wonderful people who felt like this and felt like they were apologizing for themselves all the time and didn't have that confidence spurred me on ⁓ start Loudher. So Loudher I public speaking and voice coaching. And it's predominantly for women, but I also do work with men sometimes as well. ⁓ And with that, I really wanted to explore the holistic side ⁓ of and public speaking coaching. Because as I'm sure you know, ⁓ often when think of it, they think of kind of standing in a room and doing a power pose and owning the room. And then it kind of ends there. ⁓ So. ⁓ Sarah Collins: You Hannah Douglas: What I really wanted to do was use my actor training and things I learned at drama school with all those mad voice exercises that I mentioned earlier, they were so helpful and it's so fascinating when you look into ⁓ you have the fears that you do about public speaking, why voice struggles ⁓ or why feel like you run out of breath in a certain situation. So looking at it more from that perspective. and how we can build from that and build confidence from there. I think a lot of people think that you're either confident or you're not. ⁓ confidence isn't a personality trait. It's something that can be nurtured and built upon. So would say like everything comes to the breath. Breath is first. If you can get that breath first, then your voice and the confidence can follow. ⁓ So yes, through LoudHer, I offer ⁓ coaching both one-to-one and for corporate networks and teams. So go into places or do it online. And we look at how people can feel. ⁓ more heard and how people can use their own voice and not feel like they have to put someone else's voice or not sound more masculine, but feel like they can use their own voice and feel like they are getting their message across more clearly. Sarah Collins: Brilliant. And work that is so needed. And this is why I love speaking to people who are, doing a similar thing in the speaking space. ⁓ Because not only do I ⁓ something every time I speak a different guest, ⁓ but actually it just reaffirms important this work is. ⁓ And, there are spaces for of obviously you focusing on breath work and public speaking, and I'm focusing on more media interviews. But actually that element of the breath is so important, isn't it? And just slowing that breath down and having control of that breath in that situation, which can feel like quite a nerve wracking, heightened situation for many, many people. Hannah Douglas: Yeah, definitely. think whatever situation you're in, taking a breath, allowing yourself, giving yourself a moment to take a breath is always going to be helpful. Whether you are giving a presentation, whether you're in an interview, whether you are having a difficult conversation with somebody, not just in the workplace, you know, that could be a difficult conversation with a partner, arguments with someone. or dealing with a toddler. Sarah Collins: Very handy then, comes in very handy. Hannah Douglas: Yeah, really, really does. I often have to use my own advice there. a second and just taking that breath not only ⁓ ⁓ your body, but also just gives you that moment of mental clarity to go, how do I want to ⁓ here? I say confidence ⁓ is on three pinnacles, suppose. ⁓ permission and choice. So we've talked about the breath. if you take deep breaths, it signals to your body that you're safe. So not only does it give you that support system for your voice, it also tells you that you're not under attack. Permission is, you feel like you're in a safe enough place to say what it is you really want to say? ⁓ And how can you that permission to yourself? And then once you've got those things, you can choose your words so you can choose what it is you want to say because often if we don't take a breath we end up rushing and we just go and everything comes out and sometimes things come out that you didn't want to say so if you can give yourself a moment to take a breath then you can choose your words more carefully and also do things like stop talking at the end of a sentence and not feel like you then have to backtrack or fill it or apologize or Go. Yeah, same. Whatever it is at the end. Sarah Collins: I think it's such a skill to learn, isn't it? It's such a skill to learn that, but it's so important when you're in that situation that actually, even just things like filler words is where you're speaking too quickly for your brain to catch up, isn't it? So just actually taking a breath in that moment is so important and useful as well. if ⁓ listening to this podcast then is quite early on in their speaking journey, ⁓ Hannah Douglas: Yeah. Sarah Collins: And they're thinking, okay, taking a breath in those moments. Yeah, I can do that, but is there something that they should be doing in particular or what do you use? What was kind of a strategy that you use before ⁓ you a speaking event? Hannah Douglas: So yeah, often if you don't have very much time before any kind of speaking, ⁓ think a of the best things that I think are great to do. If ⁓ a exercise, making sure whether you're sitting down or standing, making sure that your feet ⁓ are on the floor. Like if you can take your shoes off even better, but if you can't, don't worry, but making sure those feet are really grounded on the floor. Sarah Collins: Mm-hmm. Hannah Douglas: I know barefoot isn't for everyone. And doing something called balloon breathing, which is ⁓ want to kind of imagine a balloon expanding in your torso, and then you kind of push all the air back out. ⁓ it's breathing in through your nose and kind of holding on to your ⁓ cage, because you want to breathe in to here rather than Sarah Collins: Mm. Hannah Douglas: up here. So if you get your hands on your ribs, you can kind of feel where it is you're meant to be breathing into. So taking a deep breath in through your nose and then you blow everything out on a sound and you really imagine kind of squeezing all the air out. Doing three to five of those before you start. ⁓ Again, calms you down. It signals that you're safe. Sarah Collins: Mm. Hannah Douglas: But also I think because you then start thinking about your posture, you think about where any tension is, it just helps you feel grounded and present in the moment rather than kind of letting your thoughts race away with you. It just keeps you where you are and grounds you. So that's a great breathing exercise that you can do quite quickly. And then the other thing, something that actors do all the time is humming. that's humming a little tune or whether it's just going, ⁓ ⁓ You'll always hear actors just kind of like ⁓ their voice, ⁓ glides up and down. And again, ⁓ warming up your voice, but humming also your vagus nerve, which tells you that you're safe. So it's something that you can do just beforehand, ⁓ mmm, mmm, do like, brrrr, anything like that. Sarah Collins: Mmm. Hannah Douglas: where you just get your voice involved, really help you just feel a little bit more ready, I suppose, to speak. So breathing exercise and humming, ⁓ those would be my two absolute yeses to do beforehand. Sarah Collins: Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing those with us. Definitely going to be using those going forwards as well. Something that you said a couple of times that I want to pick up on, because I feel quite passionate about this as well, is that people don't need to apologize for what they're saying. And ⁓ I hate it when people say, ⁓ I'm so sorry, but, ⁓ and and I'm always the first to go, don't apologize. women especially should never apologize for saying something that they think, might not be appropriate at that or what, what was kind of your take on that? Hannah Douglas: 100 % agree with you. And I think it's something that I used to do a lot. I think a lot of us do. And as you say, it seems to be more ⁓ in women ⁓ than men. ⁓ I suppose it's because if you look at our history, ⁓ been encouraged to keep ourselves small. ⁓ not that long ago that got the vote here. There's still lots of countries where women don't have the vote. we haven't been encouraged to use our voices confidently. And when we do, we often get given labels such as being bossy or mouthy or loud or overconfident that I think often men don't get. So no wonder a lot of us feel like if we express a view, we feel like we have to apologize for it. And it's something I always think you kind of have to... notice it first, notice when you're doing it and be curious about it rather than judgmental with yourself because there's a clear reason why you're doing it, it's not a fault of yours. So being curious about it ⁓ recognising when it's happening and just those small changes of starting your sentence, take a breath. instead of saying, sorry, I just want to, or at the end of your sentence, stopping what you're saying, taking a breath. Sarah Collins: Yeah. Hannah Douglas: and allowing that silence to land rather than feeling really awkward about it and then feeling like you have to say, yeah, so sorry. But yeah, I mean, I didn't really mean and then explaining backtracking. So it's it's kind of just finding those moments where you can start to make small changes. And it's a habit, isn't it? it's one that I'm still learning. I'm still ⁓ getting at. It takes time. Sarah Collins: Yeah. Hmm. I think that's a huge key thing ⁓ that certainly I with women ⁓ and that element learning not to have to apologize and actually being able to take up space, being able to have an opinion, being able to say ⁓ what you think. And I think all boils down, doesn't it? To being comfortable with kind of who you are. What's been your biggest change you said about? Hannah Douglas: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Collins: having to learn how to be okay with speaking as you. ⁓ What was biggest takeaway in that change? Hannah Douglas: think that ⁓ was always and still am a massive people pleaser. ⁓ I think when you, ⁓ you've lived a lot of your life as a people pleaser, you sometimes, and I think a lot of people feel the same way, you do lose touch with what it is you really want. Cause sometimes you then like, ⁓ how do I, how do I feel about that? Actually? How do, what do I really want? ⁓ I don't know. Perhaps it's just because I'm so sleep deprived now. I have lot less patience. Or no, seriously, think just speaking to so many women and as I said before, I really want my little boy to grow up knowing that women's voices are important and my voice is important as his is. yeah. forcing myself to come back into my body, to listen to my body and listen to how I'm responding to a certain situation to then go, what is it I really want here? How do I really feel about this? And how I feel about it is okay. What I want is okay. I'm allowed to say it and I don't have to apologize for it. So that's been the biggest takeaway really. Sarah Collins: Mm. ⁓ that's lovely. I'm so glad that you've got to that point. It's really brilliant. Hannah, where can people find you or learn more about what you do? ⁓ Hannah Douglas: So if you're interested in learning more about LoudHer, then you can find me on Instagram at LoudHerVoiceCoaching, or you can check out my website, which is LoudHerVoiceCoaching.com. I'm also on Instagram as Hannah Douglas, if you wanna know more about the acting side of things as well. Sarah Collins: Brilliant. So to wrap up the episode, I'd to ask my guests to complete the blank. If you could encourage listeners to speak with and then add a word or a phrase, what would that be and why? Hannah Douglas: I would say speak with the breath. And the reason is everything comes back to the breath. As I said before, there's no situation where getting back in touch with your breath and giving yourself a moment to take a breath doesn't help. So I would say rather than saying, you know, speak with authority or speak with impact or speak with confidence, take it right back. to the basics, speak with the breath. Sarah Collins: Beautiful and sums up what we spoke about today in a really incredible way. Thank you so much, Hannah. It's been lovely to speak to you. Hannah Douglas: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been lovely.