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IFH 854: Why Most Indie Films Fail Before Production Even Starts with Jenna Edwards · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
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  Speaker 2: fifty four. Cinema should make You forget. You're sitting in
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  Speaker 2: a theater, Roman Polanski.
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  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
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  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we showed you how to survive
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  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
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  Speaker 1: the film biz.
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  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur
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• 1:50
  Speaker 2: today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: I have a guest who has been on Malcolm in
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: the Middle. She has been on Buffy, actually been done
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: a podcast herself. Now she's doing a lot of really
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: great stuff in the producing space with guests Jenna Edwards. Jenna,
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: how are you?
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: I'm great?
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: How are you good? Thank you? You know, I was
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: just reading your bio and that's actually really cool that you,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: you know, produced the first feature with Hulu and I
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: definitely want to get into that. But the first question
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: I have for you is is, you know, and I
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: ask everyone this, and that is, Jenna, how did you
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: find yourself in the film industry? Meaning is this something
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: you've always wanted to do or is this something that
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: you sort of just found yourself in one day.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: It's a great question. I have a two part answer
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: to that. I always knew I wanted to be in
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: the entertainment industry. I truth be told, came out to
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: LA to be an actor in television and got into
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: film producing kicking and screaming, so not really by choice,
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: but I love it and I'm so grateful to my
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: friend who kind of drug me into it. And that's
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: really the answer to that question. Kicking and screaming and
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: joyfully so.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Well, usually the kicking and screaming part I can relate to,
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: but joyfully so not so much. But no, I'm just kidding.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, I did look at your IMDb
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: and I did see you have some really awesome credits,
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: you know, as an actress. So that's why I when
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: I saw that, I said, Wow, Jenna either has tremendous
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: connections or luck or she you know, she started off
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: as an actress. And that's exactly what happened, because you know,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: you were on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries. You were
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Yes, Malcolm in the Middle,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: and I mean right there, I mean those two shows
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: right there are not even counting Unsolved Mysteries. Those two
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: shows right there are cult shows that, especially Buffy.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: I still feel like it wasn't me. So I'm like, wow,
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: that was really good.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Cool?
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: How lucky am I? Yes?
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: So, so, so you know, how did you know, you know,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: you get the job on Buffy. Did you just go
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: to a casting call or did you actually you know,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: know somebody who just you know, said hey, you know, Jenna,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: want you come to this, to this casting call, and
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: you know, we'll see what happens. I mean, so, so,
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: how did you get on the show of Buffy?
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  Speaker 4: Sure, I well, it's all started with Unsolved Mysteries. Actually,
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: I moved to Los Angeles and my neighbor was an
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: actor as well, and he was here longer than me,
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: and so he introduced me to his manager, and his
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: manager got me the audition for Unsolved Mysteries. And it
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: was I hate saying this so much because actors hate
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: me when I do. Unsolved Mysteries was my first audition
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: in Los Angeles and I booked it and I got
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: my SAG card and like people were like really, I'm
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: like yes, but I did that show. And then I
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: was able to sign with this really great agent because
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: I had my side card and I did a showcase,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: not an actor showcase traditional in the traditional format, but
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: I was in a class that had a showcase at
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: the end, and I met this agent and we met
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: and we got along really great, and I actually started
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: working for him, which I strongly suggest every actor get
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: their butts into agencies, management companies and casting and see
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: if they can intern or be an assistant, because you
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: learn so much about the other side of the table
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: that I think makes actors much more hireable. But I digress.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: So then I had an auditioned for Buffy the year
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: before its last season, and you guys, literally I was
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: the day before I got this phone call. I was like,
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: that's it. I'm done acting so hard. I'm gonna leave,
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: you know. And it was more like just a release
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: of not caring so much about the outcome of certain things,
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: like when when we're acting we get in our heads
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: and we're like so tied to getting this one role.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: And I literally the next day woke up and my
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: agent was like, you booked Buffy. And I was like,
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: I don't understand the words that you're saying because I
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: haven't auditioned for Buffy in over a year, and so
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: I feel like they've made a mistake. He's like, no,
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: they really liked your audition the year before, and I
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: was like, wooh, Buffy. And then I got the script
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: and it was just this one little seven second scene.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: And I say that with all the respect in the world,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: but at the time, you know, as an actor, you're like, oh,
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: they hired me because I can I'm sturdy and I
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: can block a punch. That's literally why I got cast
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: in that role. But then I've had so many amazing
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: experiences with it because that role. I don't know if
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: you saw it Dave's, but it was the last episode
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and and she was doing
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: this amazing speech talking about how like some guys decided
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: that there would be only one Slayer and we're deciding
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: to change all of that, and so basically anyone who
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: would be a Slayer is now going to be a
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: slayer because we need everyone to be empowered. And during
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: that montage, I blocked a punch and rose into frame
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: and inherited her power. And that seven seconds has literally
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: had a huge impact on so many people that I've
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: met that are fans of the show. I had one
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: woman say that it inspired her or empowered her to
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: leave her abusive boyfriend. And so it was this true
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: testament of there are no small rules, and you know,
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: you just have to be grateful for every opportunity that
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: you get. And now I get to say I'm a slayer.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: It's pray for your rad.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: You know, I agree with you completely, you know, because
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: I have seen, you know, some actors. They'll get a
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: you know, a role some in in in a part
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: in a in a movie or a TV show, and
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: they sort of don't like the fact that they're not
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: the star, right And and I have to you know,
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: I've had friends who are actors coming to me and
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: they say, I don't want to be in this in
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: this film because blah blah blah, And I said, are
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: you kidding me? I said, do you know any actors
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: would kill for this? Because they could turn that into
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: something else because you know what it means. It means
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: you you can you know, you take this this part,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: no matter how big or small it is, and you
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: use that to parlay into something else. And I don't
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: mean that in a bad way, like you know, but
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I mean that in a good way because you know,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: you know, look to saying Jenna in Hollywood, you're only
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: as good as your last project, and that way, you
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: could say, hey, well, hey, you know, I'm sure when
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: you went all auditions, they probably you probably said, hey,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I was in Buffy. You know, I I've done. You know,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: I've you know, I was the girl and Buffy, you know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: And again the fans that resonated with them because like
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: I said, that's a cult show and I mean you
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: know that has a pretty rabid fan base.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it does, and they're so amazing. It's it's fascinating,
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  Speaker 4: you know. That was my experience with there are no
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: small roles. You know, that's saying there are no small roles,
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: only small actors. And then the Malcolm story. I have
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: stories for everything. It's so funny. The Malcolm story was
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: like my realization of you're never auditioning for one role.
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: You're auditioning for any role because I went in there
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: the audition was for one line in the show, and
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: Brian Cranston, who is like one of the coolest people
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: you guys, he directed the episode that I was in,
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: and it was so fascinating to watch him go from
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: how the goofy dad to director. He's just brilliant. And
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: so anyway, I went into the audition to audition for
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: one line and I ended up booking a whole week's
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: worth of work. Like they they were like, oh, you
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: need to read for this other role, and I booked
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: the bigger role because I just wasn't attached, like I
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: said in the beginning to the outcome of what.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back for a word from our sponsor
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show, what's.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: Going to happen? I was just in there so excited
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: to be auditioning again because I had I had taken
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: off quite a bit of time from it, and so
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: it's it's fascinating. It's fascinating the experiences you get to
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: have when you just open yourself up to all the possibilities.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I concur and I you know, before I continue on,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I'm wanting to ask you. I just want to take
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: one step back, very quickly, tell you, tell you a
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: funny story, real quick, awesome because this is you know,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: because we're just as we were talking about unsolved mysteries
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: and Buffy. I had I had a short little story
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: I wanted to tell you, and I think you'll get
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: a kick out of this, uh one time. You know,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: I really don't act, you know, I'm more of the
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: behind the camera type of guy. And I had a
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: friend of mine who was he owns his own production company,
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: and he said to me, Hey, why don't you come
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: to this casting call we're doing. We're doing it for
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: this uh this barbecue thing. It's gonna be a national
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: wide commercial. Uh. You know, He's like, you know, and
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: he's like, I just have a feeling. I just want
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: to see you in this and try out for this role.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: And I said to him, Okay, sure, you know, I'll come,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: you know, I said, you know, if you want me to,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: I'll come out. So I went in and you know,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: there's there's the room. You know, there's the uh it's
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: not a great room, but you know it's the room.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Everyone you know, all the actors and everyone. You check
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: in and you sit down, you know, everyone's you know,
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: reading their lines, and well, as I'm sitting there, somebody
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: comes out, Uh I think it was his assistant and
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: he recognized me. Well, then everybody comes out, like the
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: from the casting like you know what I mean, Like
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: they were in there doing the auditions, so he so,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: you know, three people come out and they're all shaking
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: my hand like I'll good to see you here, Dave.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: And the funny thing is like some of the actors
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: were giving me a look like who is this guy?
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: And how the hell did we even audition? Does this
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: guy already have the role? I was trying to explain
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: to everybody like, look, I'm not anybody famous. I just
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: know the know the product guy who runs the production company,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: and I swear. I was like, there's not a shot
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: in how I'm getting this. Uh. They ended up not
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: giving it to me anyway. But you know, it was
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: funny too because afterwards they were like, hey, Dave, after
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: these auditions, why don't we go out and grab some lunch?
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, sure, why not? So, uh,
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: it's just funny because it's really like you know who
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: you know, But that just was like overkill because you know,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: it just was a funny, funny little story. But I
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: thought you'd get a kick out of it because because
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: it just it seems so redundant. But but but you know,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: uh so I didn't. I didn't get the role though,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: but uh, but it's just reminded what you were saying.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: But uh but uh, it's why.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad that you know an actor who was
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: probably you know, trying for years that you know, uh
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: at their craft, got the got the commercial spot and
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: not me just because I'm friends with somebody. But but
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: you know, so you you know, you were on Buffy
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: the Van Slayer. Now did Josh Whedon direct that episode?
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: He did?
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: So what was it like working with?
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Trip out about it? He? You know, so, first of all,
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: because I hadn't auditioned. I mean I was really young
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: when I booked that, and I had an auditioned for
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: that specific role. I literally walked around all day on
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: set thinking they had the wrong person, and that the
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: minute I meet Joss, He's going to be like, who
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: the heck is this sick that I don't know? It
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: didn't happen that way, thank goodness. But you know, like
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: Buffy was my first experience on a really like big production,
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: and it was fascinating to me. First of all, I'm
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: going to tell you two stories about Joss Whedon because
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: it just to me tells the story of who he
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: is as a person. The first is, you know, my
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: role was seven seconds, but I was being abused. That's
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: the whole point of it. Like I was a to
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: finally stand up for myself because I inherited Buffy's powers
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: and there was no way anyone was going to hit
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: me again. But because I was being abused, I talked
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: to him and I said, you know, should I be
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: crying or not? That was my question. And not only
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: did he so let me back up. Most directors would
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: probably say no and then walk away and continue to
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: do their thing. Not only did he stop and look
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: at me and acknowledge that I had a question, he
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: explained to me why I shouldn't be crying, and he
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: was like, no, because it's too much for the audience
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: in that small amount of time. And as an actor,
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: when you can get a why to the answer, it
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: makes it so much easier for you to accept it
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: and internalize it and become the character even more. You know,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: it's a different way of asking what's my quote motivation,
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: but the fact that he was like so amazing you know,
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: to and give me that attention or that time that
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: I needed was just it was for me, just incredible.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: And then so I get done and little trivia here,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: I was the last scene ever shot on the show.
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: And so when they called, you know, cut, then they
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: said that's a wrap. It was literally the last time
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: that that crew was going to hear that in this production.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: And so when they did it, you know, people started
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: crying and they were hugging, and here I am all awkward,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: like I have known you people for a total of
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: maybe two minutes now, and I'm gonna go, like I like, okay,
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna let you guys have your moment, and I'm
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: gonna leave. And my set was in this giant warehouse
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: and my my role was actually quote trailer girl, because
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: I was in the trailer. That was my set. And
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: so I'm in this like big airstream trailer and I
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: stepped down and I go to walk across this giant
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: warehouse to leave, and all of a sudden, I hear
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: Jenna wait like really loud, and I'm like, oh crap,
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: do I have you know, a microphone? But no, I
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: wasn't you know, there was no sound, and I'm having
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: all these thoughts running through my head and I turn
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: around and here's Joss Whedon sprinting across this warehouse and
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: he's like, I just wanted to say thank you. And
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: that was like, you realize you're Joss Whedon, right, Like
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: you realize that you just let me be in your
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: amazing show Buffy, and you're now thinking me. I was like,
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: shut up, I can't even handle you. And then we
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: took pictures and it was just really great. It was
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: such a fun experience. But that's the kind of guy
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: he is, you know, He's just he's just a good guy.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: And I was so grateful to have that experience.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: You know, And that's amazing to hear, because I've always
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: wanted to meet Josh. But and I've always I'm always
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: interested because when people have actually worked with him, you
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: know what he's like, his style, everything, I mean, I've
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: always heard nothing but good things. By the way, So
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: because I've never met anybody who has anything bad to
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: say about.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: Joss, I can't even imagine somebody having something bad to say.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: I just but again, that's my experience, so even if
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: you did have a bad experience, I would ignore it
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: because I love mine so much.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: So hopefully one day I will meet Joss and I
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: won't have a bad experience, because if I if I
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: did have a big experience, I'd have to call you
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: back and be like, Jenna, I had a bad experience
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: with them, and then.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: I would have to like figure out how to get
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: a hold of him again and be like, you need
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: to apologize because nobody in the world and think you
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: are not the most wonderful human.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Uh you know, so you know, after you know Buffy
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: the Vampire Slayer, you did take a break. Yes, now
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: now I know the story about what happened. Now do
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: you want to, you know, sort of fill in what
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: happened between you know Buffy and when you went back
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: to work as an actor.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: I'm a total open book, but it opens up a
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: can of worms. Are you ready?
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: I am? I am ready jee.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: So Buffy aired and I thought, as an actor, my
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: whole life was about to change and it was going
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: to be great, and my career is going to take
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: off and all of this stuff was going to happen.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Mind you, this was before social media. I believe that
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: if social media existed, it probably would have taken off,
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: and then things might have been even more complicated than
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: they were. My life did change, it changed dramatically, but
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: it wasn't because of acting. It was because I was
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: on a break at work and a man drove through
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: the farmer's market in Santa Monica and killed ten people
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: and injured over sixty of us. And he hit me,
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: they say, at about sixty miles an hour. And I
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: suffered severe post traumatic stress disorder, and I couldn't read,
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: and I started when I talked, and I forgot basic words,
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: and I didn't sleep for eight months, and I ended
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: up in the psych word where I thought my whole life,
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: let alone my career, was completely over and I just didn't. Yeah,
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: it was very devastating and obviously life altering, and it
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: took me three and a half years before I could
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: work again, and over seven years before I didn't have
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: a panic attack or a flashback.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: So how did you you know, start to sort of
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: you know, I guess you know, overcome all this. You know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: we're you know, I'm sure you know. There had to
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: be you know, building blocks, you know what I mean,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: like step by step. So so where how did you
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: start your road to recovery?
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: Well, it was, first of all, I my my family
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: has a history of addiction, and so I I refused
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: medication because I was so afraid that I would become
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: an addict. It nearly killed me because the my chemicals
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: were so off that I needed that medication to regulate
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: the chemistry and my body and be able to sleep
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: and become.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: Like I always say, I had a mental injury, not
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: a head injury or a brain injury, but a mental
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: one where just like things weren't being processed the same way.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: And so I had to accept that I would be
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: on medication. But I was very clear with my doctors
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: that I wasn't going to be on this medication for forever.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: So we needed to have a full plan in place,
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: and I needed to see that plan before it even
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: before I would do anything. And then my road to
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: recovery really started when I accepted that I needed more
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: help than I could get outside of a hospital because
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: I was trying to get the chemicals regulated at home,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: and it was a really scary process because some of
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: them were affecting me in ways that they weren't supposed
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: to be. And on top of the people dying in
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: my head every time I closed my eyes, I was
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: also really scared of what the medication was doing, and
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: so I checked myself into this psychord after a really
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: horrific episode with the medication. I won't get into that,
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: but while I was in the hospital, my recovery started,
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: I truly believe, because Drew Barrymore was sharing her story
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: at the time. And what I mean by that is
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: Drew had a history with addiction, as we most of
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: us know, and at the time, there were all of
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: these articles coming out about her coming back into her
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: career and what she was having to do and all
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: of that, and even though I couldn't read and process
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: all of them, I was like, this woman's an inspiration.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: And so in my hospital I literally put up all
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: these pictures of Drew Barrymore, just remembering her story and
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: remembering how you know, people have the ability to come
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: back from things that they don't think they can come
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: back from. And not only did that experience kind of
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: propel me towards recovery on my own, it also is
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: a really big catalyst for what I believe part of
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: my purpose on Earth is, which is sharing, Like it's
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: so important to share not just your triumphs, but your
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: struggles so that people that are struggling can see what
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: it looks like when you're done, you know, when you're
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: done struggling with whatever you're struggling with. And I also
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: attribute you probably are thinking of this if you've heard
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: any of my interviews, Dave. But I attribute Alias a
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: lot to saving my life and everybody's like, really Alias, yes,
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: Alias Injury, Like Alias is the best show. I think
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: it's the best show ever made. And it when I
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: when I got out of the hospital, they said, you
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: have to create a routine for yourself in order to
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: kind of Pavolonian train your brain to go to sleep.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: And so at the time, Alias was my favorite show.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: So I literally watched an episode every night before I
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: went to bed, and it when I would watch it,
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: it would trained my brain to start to get sleepy
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: and I started to regulate my sleep and I you know, recovered,
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: and I never thought that would happen. While it was happening,
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: I thought this was going to be my life forever.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: And so when I say that Alias saved my life.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: I'm not kidding.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: So have you ever met anyone from Alias to tell
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: tells story?
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: But I kid you not. If I do, I'm gonna
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: look like the biggest nerd. Like, how do you even
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: say that to someone? I'm sure JJ Abrams wasn't thinking
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: I'm going to create this awesome show that's gonna save
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: someone's life, Like, what do you even say?
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: JJ, thanks No, But if you know anybody, I'm happy
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: to tell them and thank them profusely for doing the
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: work that they did.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know anybody off hand, but if I ever
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: stumble upon anybody, I promise I'll tell them you have
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: to talk to Jenna.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: Oh thanks, that would be awesome. I would be so excited.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: I'd probably be I look at me, I'm even nerding
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: out now, like a grown woman is nerding out so
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: bad right now at the idea of meeting those guys.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean you never know too, because of
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: there you know there are cons, you know, the comic cons,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: and then already know so you never know where you
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: can bump into them.
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I've always wanted to go to the
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: cons and stuff, but because the crash happened right after Buffy.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: I feel like it's been way too long. But who knows.
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: You know what. The thing I've learned in my life
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: is you just never know.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very true, because there was actually Monster Mania was
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: this past weekend and had a Buffy uh wait, yeah, yeah,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I think I'm sorry they're enough Buffy reunion coming up.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: That's what it is, because I actually saw it. Yeah,
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: because it's but it's it's the Buffy the movie and
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: so with Christy Swanson. So uh so, I I but
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: I know they do Buffy the TV show as well.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I know I've I mean I've seen them all, you know,
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: all the time.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: That's awesome.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: But I mean, I mean again, you never know because
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I mean there's always so many people at these cons.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: Now they just keep getting, you know, more and more.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: And I mean, so you know, you know, as we
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: continue your story, you know, you were able to get
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: you got on the road recovery. You're able you know,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: to get back to you know, to doing what you
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: wanted to do, and you got the job you know,
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: on Malcolm in the Middle. So you know, do you
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: feel I know, this is you know, an interesting just
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: a question from an actor's standpoint, Do you feel Brian
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Cranston understood actors in a different way because he is
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: an actor?
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure he. I can't imagine him
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: not understanding actors in a different way just because of
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: who he is and how he's trained, because he's a
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: very well trained actor, you know. I guess I was
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: just really excited to be on the show and watch
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: him that I didn't even think about how he interacted
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: with me or the other actors. It was just more
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: my fascination with his ability to switch so efficiently from
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: his character to who he is as a director. That
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: I that's all I remember. I do remember one thing,
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: and I'll tell I'll tell all the actors listening this.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: So I had an insecure actor moment. We all have them, right,
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: And I went up to Brian and I said, you know,
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: is that what you wanted? And he was so gracious
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: and said, look, I'm gonna give you a piece of advice.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: He goes as a director, if I don't like something,
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: I will tell you otherwise, just as an actor, assume
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: you're doing brilliant. And I was like, that's amazing. And
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: now as a producer and watching the directors that I
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: work with direct actors, I can totally see that. So
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: any actor listening, you know, you got to kind of
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: hide that insecure actor moment and really understand that if
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: you are not getting notes, then you're doing it perfectly. Here.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: That is an excellent piece of advice. Absolutely excellent piece
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: of advice. I think that that does well too if
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: you're directing a like a like a scene where that
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: includes a lot of actors, like you're like three, four
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: or five actors, because you know, you know what I mean,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: it's hard to give adjustment to that. You know what
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I mean?
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: It was it was a big crowd kind of scene
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: that I was asking. Actually, now that you say that,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: I know, I love it. I love it. But yeah,
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: I've been so lucky to be able to work with
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: people who are really great at giving advice, and I like,
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: I'm so grateful to that, you know. I think that's
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: why I've been able to kind of move my career
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: forward whenever I choose to, because I get to be
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: surrounded by incredible people. You know, so many so many
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: people think that they're just all sharks in Hollywood, and
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: I just it's not my experience. My experience has been
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: just gracious, wonderful, creative, collaborative people, and Brian is absolutely
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: at the top of that list.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that's something I've I've found too. I mean,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: not not to deviate too much for this conversation, but
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: you know, I have a friend of mine who just
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: posted online. He's a he's a screenwriter, and he's been
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: trying to be a screenwriter for like twenty years. He can't.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: He can't get anybody to be his agent or manager.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: And when you see what he posts on Facebook, it's like,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: this is probably the reason. Very angry, very bitter, very condescending.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, I wonder how
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: he talks to ages and managers. I wonder if he
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: probably just walks in there and goes, you know what,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I'm the biggest deal in this town. You just don't
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: recognize my brilliance, you know, and you should be signed,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: you should be begging to sign me. I kind of
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: have a feeling that's what he does when he either
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: you know called mix of email, you know, sends an
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: email or green letter or anything like that. And I mean,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: you know I've had Yeah, well I'm sorry, no, I.
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: Love talking about this subject because so thank you for
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: bringing it up. And I'll let you continue and then
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: I have I have stuff to add.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after word from our sponsor. And
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: now back to the show.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, because I have one other
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: person and they actually, uh, their production deal fell apart
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: with a producer, and he actually made a post calling
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: the producer out saying, I mean, oh, I mean, just
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: just going on and on, and I'm thinking to my
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: sitting there, thinking to myself, who would want to work
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: with you after making a post like that?
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, And that's exactly it, right. So
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: I always this is mostly to actors, but really any crew.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: My whole thing is. And if you could see me now,
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: I'm raising my hand in one hand. You have to
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: be really good at your job. But guess what, guys,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: there are a lot of people really good at their jobs.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, I hate to say it, especially here, like
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: we're in Los Angeles where the cream of the crop come,
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: you know, to try and make it so it's like
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: you've got to be not only really good at your job,
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: but on the other hand, you have to be really
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: easy to work with and I'm not saying you have
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: to be a dormat that's not easy to work with,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: but you have to be like my litmus test is,
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: can you do your job? And can I spend thirty
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: days in the middle of a cornfield in Nebraska without
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: wanting to kill you. That's literally how I choose or
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: how I go through the actors because and crew, because
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: that's really what happens, like we shot, you know, I've
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: shot several movies in the middle of a cornfield Nebraska,
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: which is hard work. And you don't have all of
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: the luxuries and available items that you might need when
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: you're shooting in Los Angeles. So you've got to be
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: able to roll with the punches and still do a
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: great job and be fun. And we have to be
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: able to laugh. And people always talk about how much
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: nepotism there is in Hollywood. But here's the way I
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: look at it. I want to work with my friends,
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: you know. So I want my friends to be really
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: good at their jobs so that I can justify working
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: with them because I trust them. You know, my reputation
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: is on the line when I hire someone or when
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: I cast someone. And if you're going to make life
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: hard for everybody on my team. Then they're going to
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: come to me and they're going to be like, what
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: the f did you do? And I'm going to have
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: to justify it. So, you know, you've got to be
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: gracious and understand everybody's position. And that person that posted
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: that thing about the producer and the deal falling through,
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know the details, but I've had
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: deals fall through that I've worked tirelessly on and so
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: if somebody was going to call me out on it,
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: it would be just like, first of all, untrue, because
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: there's no way I would go into a project without
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: wanting to actually make it happen. And second of all,
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: like it just shows to me that that person making
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: that post is amateur and doesn't understand the process. And
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: so you've got to be just careful about, you know,
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: showing your hurt feelings because the producers probably hurt just
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: as much. You know, they put they work tirelessly to
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: get these these deals together, and a lot of times
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: they work tirelessly for free to get the deals together
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: and then you know, to have their reputation drug through
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: the mud because something didn't happen. It's just not fair.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I and you know this this a screenwriter. That
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: there were two diferent screenwriters, and both of them, you know,
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: always complain about not being able to find money, and
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: especially the one and the other one usually complains but
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: not being able to find representation. And I always go
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: back to, I don't think anybody wants to work with
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: you because they can tell that you are going to
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: be a huge pain in the air.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: Yes, no, it's true. Well and desperate. I mean, I
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: hate to say it, but I'm sure everybody's heard like
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: you can smell desperation. And this goes to pretty much
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: anybody but writers and actors especially, which is such a
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: great segue into one of my missions, which is empowering
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: people who feel disempowered in this industry. That writer does
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: not need representation. It is twenty sixteen. If he really
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: wanted to be a screenwriter, he would figure out how
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: to get his movie made without an agent, you know
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: what again, And so it's almost like this gut check
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: for certain people. Where do you want to do you
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: want to write because you love to write, or do
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: you want to have a career in writing? Because they're
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: very different. You know, one leads into the other, but
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: the idea of having a career means that you have
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: to treat it like a business. And if you're going
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: to treat it like a business, then you're going to
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: get off your butt and you're going to figure out
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: how to get your writing scene, whether it's by an agent,
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: whether it's by other writers. But more the way that
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: I would suggest is go out and find a producer
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: that you do work well with, and get your project made,
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: even if it's a short film, so that you can
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: show people what you've got instead of counting on them
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: to discover. It's the difference between creating your career and
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: hoping to be discovered. And I feel like it's the
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: same with writers and actors and creative people in general,
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: because nowadays you can't you know. I always used to
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: say this when we were shooting April Showers, which was
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: like two thousand and eight, you guys, so it's way
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: before social media was what it is now. But I
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: would always say, you can't talk about making a movie
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: anymore because some kid with their iPhone is recording it,
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: making it into some video and putting it up online
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: and making millions. Like you have to actually make your
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: content now, and if you've got a big, giant script
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: that is going to be, you know, the next transformer,
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: then obviously you need to write something smaller that can
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: be made as a calling card.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and I understand compleague what you mean?
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: You know, ex, back when I was crowdfunding, you know,
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: two thousand or nine, twenty ten, you know, nobody knew
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: what Indigogo was. I had to explain to so many
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: people what Indigogo was, and they were like, is this legal?
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Is this well? And I said, yes, yes, it's legal,
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: and I got I had people send me messages saying
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: that it was, uh, you know, you can't actually ask
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: for donations unless you are for you know, a charity. Yeah, yeah,
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: and he says, he said, you can't. You can't unless
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: you're that. He goes, and you can't ask for you know, money,
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: unless you know you're actually have either another actually a
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: corporation yourself. He goes, So crowdfunding is that you know,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know what this is and blah blah blah.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: And I said, listen, I said, I was, so I
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: sent back this email explain what it was. I had
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: a producer on the product one of my projects, go
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: he looked at it, and he goes, I think we
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: need to make it clear that they're not buying investment
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: in the movie. I said, it's clear on the website.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I said, it's clear as a bell. I said, I
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: don't know what more I can do. And every every
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: person that I would get aboard the project was was
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: like a baffled about crowdfunding. And you know, I hope
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: to craft on another project by the end of the year,
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: you know, but I actually want to. I'm actually gonna
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: go with any goog I mean, with Kickstarter this time.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: But but you know, I I think that I mean,
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: this is a problem I find myself, and I don't know,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe this is something that you find with
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of your clients, is that I tend to
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: write things that either are too expensive because there's a
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: location that I can't get, or I require some kind
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: of you know, explosure or whatever. And on the flip side,
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: you know, when I try to write stuff that's more
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: low key, you know, it's just it doesn't have exactly
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: that's my problem, or maybe it's a little too offbeat,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: is what I'm trying to say, because you know what
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, like it's almost like an indie film that
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: if somebody read the script without having like David Lynch
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: or somebody else you know, on the on the cover
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: or you know what I mean, like somebody who can
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: make a film for you know, four or five six
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: million dollars and you know, but but you know it's
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: going to be you know, it's a person who who
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: who's who knows what they're doing, you know what, a
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: person who because because you know what I mean that
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: they don't want to spend five million dollars on some
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: on somebody new and you know they're gonna say, well,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: what's the biggest budget you know you're to work with?
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Do you have a producing team? And you know what
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: I mean? And they don't want to at that point,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, and I still don't. I still don't have
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: a producing team that comes with me, you know what
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: I mean. It's just usually just me, just little old
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: me Jenna. And they usually you're like, hey, kid, you
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: know you're you know, you got talent, but call us
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: back when you have, you know, when you have some
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: more stuff on your belt.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: Right, Well, here's the way that if you want, I
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: would advise you specifically regarding that is create yourself a
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: business plan, like so many times to filmmakers, and they
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: have no idea what their ultimate goals are and how
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: and what the steps are to get there. So if
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: you're if you're wanting to create movies that are David
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: Lynch esque, then you make yourself the new David Lynch.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: And how do you do that? You say, Okay, my
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: ultimate David Lynch movie, David Lynch esque movie is this project?
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: What other smaller projects do I have or can I
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: write that will cost maybe, you know, under half a million.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: Let's say that I can make in order to show
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: people what I've got so that they'll give me five
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: million for my ultimate project. And so that during the
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: making of let's say there's three they could even be
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: short films, but there's three films that I'm going to
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: write or I'm going to direct, or I already have
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: in my arsenal that I can.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our Spahn, sir,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: Use as building blocks to get to this ultimate five
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: million dollar project. And along the way, I'm gonna get
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: myself a producer that I really love working with that
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: sees my vision. I'm going to get an actor that
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: I know is going to blow up because he's gonna
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: he or she is going to be the perfect lead
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: for my five million dollar project. Like you start to
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: gather your your team while you're building up to getting
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: that five million dollar movie done, and you're building your
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: team with product, right, Like we have to look at
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: our films as product in order to make some of
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: like show that you can distribute so you can make
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: the money back on this like under half a million
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: dollar project, so that when you do go to investors
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: for the five million, you can say, look, here's my
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: track record, not only in the creative sense, but in
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: the funding sense. I made you know, a ten percent
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: profit on this one. We were able to check out
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: or test out distribution models on this one, and we
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: discovered that this works and this doesn't, and this pays
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: and this doesn't. You know, like it's timed for filmmakers
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: to start thinking of their careers as true production companies
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: and businesses.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I agree, you know, there it should
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: be more of a business acromy to this. There should
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: be more of a thought about, you know, how the
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: investors were up their money back, you know, Jason Brubaker
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: who have had on the show even said, yeah, Jason's
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: a great guy. He even said, you know, hey, where
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: I get my movie in the Sundance isn't a business place? No?
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: Please?
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you see it's funny, yeah.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: Which is I've the business plan, but it's absolutely not
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: a business plan.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: And you know, I had on an inn had on
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Morgan J. Freeman. Okay, and he was an episode and
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: uh he actually won Sundance and was the first ever
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: I think what triple crown champion. And I mean he has,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: you know, an amazing story about you know, why the
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: movie was never released basically it all. I mean he
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: even admits this, so I'm not you know, not not
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: you know, spring dirt, but he even admitt it went
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: all to his head and h he he got into
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: trouble when he was blowing off meetings with Steven Spielberg,
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: whoa yeah, and but but now he works for MTV
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: and uh, I mean, you know, everything I just said
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: we went over with in the interview. But but yeah,
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: but you know, just you know that's why Sundance, you know,
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: maybe winning it isn't the you know, the the best
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: thing that could happen, because you know it doesn't you know,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: there's no guarantees in life.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Right, absolutely, And you know it's so funny because my
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: first feature, Apule Showers, like everybody behind the scenes sun
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: Dance was our goal. That was our business plan, and
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: so as somebody who made that their business plan and
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: then was sad, like, we made this amazing movie, but
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: it was about us, about the Columbine story, so not
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: the feel good movie of the year. And while we
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: were shooting, the market crashed and sun Dance started taking
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: comedies and they shifted their kind of film selection criteria
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: and they started to program differently, and our film didn't
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: get in, and so we had to then figure out
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: how we're going to pay our investors back. And we
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: did the second day and date, which was on iTunes
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: and in the theaters at the same time. And at
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: that time it was like so unheard of one other
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: film had done it, and the theaters were freaking out.
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: They called us the horsemen of the apocalypse, like like
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: you said about your indiegog campaign, Like we had to
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: explain how it wasn't going to affect the theatrical release
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: the way that they were thinking. And I kept saying,
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: I kept using the analogy of Wolfgang Puck. I'm like
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: Wolfgang Puck's restaurants didn't go under when he started to
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: serve frozen or put frozen dinners in the grocery store.
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: His profits went up. Like it wasn't. They fed into
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: each other. And so it was a lot of convincing that,
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: you know, the internet isn't actually going to kill your
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: theatrical release. It's going to be a great way for
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: people to, you know, learn about the film in different avenues.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: And it's like a Vock concert. If you want to
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: go to a concert. You want to go to a concert,
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: but you're not going to not buy the CD from
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: the band. I almost think, and this is my theory,
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: I think that theaters need to start selling digital copies
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: of the movies in the lobby. I think, after you
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: see like an X Men and you're so excited about it,
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: you want that. I bet you people would make They
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: would make so much more money if they started selling
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: digital copies. But that's just my soapbox.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: We I actually think that you know it going along
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: with that, it's what's gonna happen as e starts selling
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: like packages, like you buy a ticket, you buy a shirt,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: you buy a hat, you get a digital download when
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: that's released, and maybe some other like hard to come
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: by collectible that you know can't be three D printed
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: as readily, and you know, and you get that together
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: maybe even get to you know, it's sort of like
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: late Brad Pitt did with World War Z, because it
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: was getting all those you know, all that bad publicity
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: and then you know, he was going to mystery tours
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: around you know, people were like, oh my god, what
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: if he comes to ours? Your a uh? And I
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: think that helped it out. And but you know, it's funny.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: They're actually amount a sequel to that with David Venture directing,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: which I think is completely odd.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: Business.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I mean World Wars Z. I actually
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: I actually read the book yeah, and the movie. I
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: was like, what what is going on here? There's so
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: many times where I was like, what the hell is?
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: Why are they doing this? Like this is this is
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: my this is the part that really had me laughing.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: They're in did you have you seen what was it at? Okay,
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: So there in Jerusalem and the the Israelis have like
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: waled off the city and they're letting in everybody else
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: one by one. Well, when the I think it was
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: the Muslim started to sing suddenly that's what attracted all
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: the zombies and they said, but I'm like, what about
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: all the helicopters and people talking? And I'm like, so
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: what it like? This is this singing driving the nuts?
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: And I mean it's just I was like, what the
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: hell is going on here? Because usually I'm the guy
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: everyone asks after we see a movie, like, you know,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: they want me to explain stuff, and I go, I
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: have no idea about this one. You guys got me.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: How they the zombies can tell do throw these noises
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that? I just don't know. Uh, But
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry to get sidetracked there, but it's all good.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: I just I like action movies, so I'm very good
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: at not analyzing action movies.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: You know. But like some of that, die Hard comes
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: along and it's just like it flips everything. And I
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: mean now, because because you know that's how people pitch stuff.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: It's it's die Hard in a blank. I had a
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: friend I had a friend of mine pitched die Hard
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: in a Haunted House nice. I watched, yeah, and I
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: was like, how did this not sell? And he's like, Dave,
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: that's a question I asked myself every day, you know,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: and you know, Jen, I wanted to ask, you know,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: just to sort of continue with this this you know,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: part of the conversation. You know, what are what do
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: you think are some of the main roadblocks to getting
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: your film made?
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: I'm not having a plan. It's probably the biggest.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: So yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say, so, do
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: you think filmmakers, do you think that this this script
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: is just too much money? Like, like we were just
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: saying with me, do you think that the script maybe
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: it isn't you know, feasible. Maybe they should, you know,
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: aim sort of smaller scope, you know, make something for
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: maybe five ten, fifteen thousand, you know, and and shoot
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: that short film first that you know, costs that raise
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: that you know, crowdfund that money go from.
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: Depends on what the goal is, you know. It's it's
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: really interesting how many filmmakers and actors and people in
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: this industry will just do anything. And what I've learned
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: is until you're at a certain level, you really have
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: to focus on one thing to start. And what I
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: mean by that is like, if you really want to
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: be doing romantic comedy and that's your ultimate goal, please
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: don't make a horror movie because you think it's easier
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: to sell, because then you're dealing with distribution companies that
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: aren't in line with what you want to be doing. Ultimately,
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: you're dealing with financers aren't in line. You're dealing with
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: cast and producers, and like every single person that you're
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: putting your time and energy into developing a relationship with
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: when you're making a horror film, they're not over here.
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: They're not going to be the ones that help you
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: make your romantic comedy. Instead, start to focus on networking
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: with people in the romantic comedy space, maybe getting some
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: if you want to be a director, getting on some
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: TV shows in the more comedy space, going to film
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: festivals that focus more on romantic comedies rather than the horror. Like,
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: all of the things that you should be doing should
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: be focused in the genre that you really want to
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: be working in. And I'm not saying that you can't
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: make friends with people that are doing things outside of
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: your genre. I'm just saying be a little more strategic
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: in the choices. Let me rephrase that, being a little
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: more specific with the areas that you spend your focused
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: time on. Does that make sense?
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: And I mean it's heartbreaking to me because I've seen
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: so many filmmakers not working in the area that they
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: want to be working in, and they work for ten
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: years and then they don't have the contacts they need
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: to make the project they actually want to make. You know,
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: this whole business is all about building. It's like, you
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: have to think of it like a house. Your foundation.
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: Then you've got your walls, and you've got your drywall
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: and your paint and you know, it's it takes years
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: to build that type of career. But if you're you know,
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: working on the foundation on this one house, and then
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: you're going over and you're working on walls in a
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: different house, and then you're going over and you're painting
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: a different house, like, it doesn't make sense. So it's
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: really important to think of it as a business. Like
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: if you were in banking, you wouldn't be networking with
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: a ton of people who were in film, Like, it
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: just doesn't it doesn't make sense. And that's specific networking.
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: And I do have to say that Los Angeles is
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: built for networking. So the people that are outside of
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: LA or a really strong film community might not have
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: the opportunities to network the same way. But and they
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: also might think of it as a poor letter would.
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: And I really want you to stop that because I
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: used to think that way, Like we think, oh, you're
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: just you just want to meet me because you want
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: something or you need something. But the reality is in film,
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: everybody wants something and everybody needs something. So when you're networking,
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: it's not an icky thing. It's not like you're going
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: to come in and take advantage because you're literally like,
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: I of course want to network with directors because I'm
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: not one, so I need one, And they of course
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: want to network with me because they're not producers and
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: they need one, you know. So it's this wonderful dance
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: of needs and wants and how can we all help
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: you each other as opposed to thinking, oh, how I
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: feel gross because I'm just gonna ask for something. It's
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: a big mental shift that needs to happen for a
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: lot of people when it comes to networking and then
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: being really specific about who you're networking with and not
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: wasting your time networking with somebody you don't like. You know,
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: I've really made a deal with myself. I don't work
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: with people I don't like anymore. It's just not worth it.
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: There's too many awesome people in this industry that you know,
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: why bother and then you're wasting This is a really
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: great way to look at it for me anyway, because
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: I did really feel icky when I first came to LA.
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: But the reality is, I'm if I'm spending time with
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: someone I know I'm never gonna work with, or I
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: know I don't really like but they might be able
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: to help me, I'm wasting their time as well. And
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: that's just no good for anybody. So only spend time
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: with the people that you actually really want want to
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: work with, and you really like, and you really you're
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: aligned creatively, you know you and and energetically.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I I I know what you mean, because
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: you know, I've had friends who have had producers, you know,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: the directors, and they've had producers come on and they
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: just don't gel. And I've always said this to people too.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: If you're gonna be if you're the type of guy
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: where everything is by the book and you have to
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: be professional, you have to work with people like that.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: You know, if you hire if you hire a producer
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: who's like, you know, hey, nothing's a big deal. Let's
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: just throw everything to the wind. You know, it's it's
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: not gonna work well because you're just gonna be as
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: a mixed match of styles, and it's it's just not
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: going to work. And you know, even you know myself,
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: my own projects, I have worked with the producers and
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: and dps and actors who just aren't my style. And
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: that's you know, And and I came to the same conclusion.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: I don't want to work with these people anymore, who
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: are time and energy vampires who want to call you
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: constantly to complain about something that someone did or might do.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: For instance, I had a project one time and this
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: one guy kept calling to complain about my producer. And
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: I said, what is the problem here, Like why do
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: you guys keep freaking arguing? I was thinking to myself,
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: how much overlap do you guys even freaking have you mean, like,
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: like what do you guys like bumping into each other
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: in the supermarkets? Like you know, And he would tell me, oh,
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: the producer's condescending, And I said, listen that this producer
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: is like one of the nicest guys. I think he's
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: too nice. In fact, if you told me that, I
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: would agree with you. But you know, it's just it's
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: just stuff like that, you know what I mean. And
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: I mean some people's egos get get the the Have
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: you ever seen the movie Overnight By It focuses on
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: Troy Troy Duffy, who did The boon Dock Saints. It
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: basically follows him at the minute he gets his deal
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: to make The boon Dock Saints with Merrimax, his ego
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: goes off the freaking rails, and I mean he ends
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: up the movie gets in turnaround. Then they have to
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: they had to find funding somewhere else. And I mean
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: it's just basically about you know, guy getting his dream
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: and just destroying it because he's ow his zone worse enemy.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: And I think it's happened to a lot of people
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: in this business, is that there is there ego just
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: gets in the way.
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: No. I love that you're talking about ego because it's
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: something I I talk about immediately if I'm about to
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: go into a project, because my whole thing is we
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: have to know what we want to do with the project.
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: So what's the project's goal? Basically, is it to go theatrical,
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: Is it to go to Hulu? Is it to go
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: you know, a film festival?
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Where?
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: Like what is it? And make that decision because that's
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: the thing. Also back to your question earlier about you know,
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: what do you think the the things filmmakers don't have
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: in place? And that's part of the plan. Part of
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: the plan is what are you going to do with
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: the film once it's done? You know it like it's great.
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: If your mom thinks it's great and you want to
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: show it in the basement, more power to you. But
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: you can't raise money with a plan like that, and
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: so and you also can't make an effective movie if
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: you don't have a plan. So we sit down, my
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: whole team and I we sit down and we decide
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: this is where the project's going. This is how we're
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: getting there. If some other great opportunity comes up in
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: the meantime, we'll obviously talk about it, but this is
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: the plan, right. And then there's a whole conversation about ego,
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: because ego tends to like negative, ego tends to come
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: from insecurity and as a producer, I feel like it's
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: my job to make sure that people feel secure in
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: the process, especially the director and the creative people in
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: the project, because you have to feel secure in order
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: to create big is my thought on it. But the
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: thing is that in that creating big, if they feel secure,
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: they can remove their ego from it, understanding that everybody
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: is working towards the same goal. And so so I
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: do I flat out say there will be no ego
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: because our biggest question whenever we're having a conversation and
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: there's a difference in opinion, has to be what's best
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: for the project. And so that phrase comes out of
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: my mouth at least a thousand times on every project
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: I work on, because if you can really go, okay,
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: this issue that we're having, like you've given an opinion,
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: and you've given an opinion, but what's which opinion or
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: which plan of action is best to get us to
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: the goal at hand? What's best for the project. And
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: then that way, it doesn't matter whose opinion it is,
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: it's just what's best for the project, and all ego
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: can be removed and everybody can feel happy about it
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: and it's all good. I found that that's like literally
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: the secret to having a harmonious production.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: You know, that's a very good tip. And uh, you know,
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: the next film project I do that, that's uh, that'd
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: be something I want to talk about, you know, when
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: doing you know, getting everyone together, all those producers, especially
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: because the produce you know, because and the producers you know,
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, because I've had some producers before they've come
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: to me to figure out a problem. And I said,
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to write the project here, why are you
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: coming to me to talk to me about a problem?
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: And and me and the producer in the middle of
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: this set got into a huge screaming match. And I'm
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: a I'm a fellow ginger, Jenna, and uh and and
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: I I can outscream a lot of people, but those
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: people who you heard me on the podcast are like, nah,
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: Dave's you know, and believe me when I have like
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: that that ginger temper where I just start screaming. And
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: she actually walked off and was like, I don't know
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: why you're so angry. I said, you don't know why
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: I'm so angry, you know, it's like it's good things.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: And then and then she walks away and leaves me
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: with the problem. And then I'm like then then she
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: was later on her and I are arguing. Again, She's like, well,
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: you weren't directing the actors, and why why isn't the camera,
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: why isn't the there's equipment set up? I said, why
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: aren't you talking to my first ad? Why are you
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: talking to me about this? And and and again now
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: we're going back and it's it. So why why she
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: was telling me the problems?
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's because most people who are producers don't actually
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: understand what producers do. It's such a problem, like I
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: have to educate people on what producers do all the time.
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: And so another tip that might help is to if
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: you have multiple producers and there's no clear lead producer,
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: first if you can remedy that, if you can put
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: like a lead producer on the on the books, do it,
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: because then the buck stops there and they would be
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: more like your producing partner as a director, like they
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: would totally be your.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: Eyes and Ears in production, so that you understood is
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: going on. But then also if you have multiple producers,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: assign them something to be in charge of because oftentimes
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: they don't know where the buck stops because there's four
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: of them, for example, and they you know, there's so
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: many different duties that are going on, and they're like, well,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: who's in charge of it? And then the ball drops.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: So you have a producer in charge of the cast,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: like that's really crucial. You have a producer who's in
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: charge of locations and shaking hands and kissing babies while
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: we're on set. Crucial. You have a producer who's in
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: charge of crew and anything that goes wrong with crew,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: you know, like just making sure that there's one person
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: who's in charge of these different areas will help, I think,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: alleviate you getting bothered on set with things that aren't
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: your responsibility.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, very true. I part of the problem
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: was my my producer was supposed to be you know,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: when I'm not around, he was supposed to be the
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: lead producer. He had a crush on this one producer
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: and uh and that you know that whole thing, you know,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: So he never really wanted to admonish her or say
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: anything to her, and was always like everything she did
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: was you know, the work of you know, of a god.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: And we had a long talk about that as well,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: he and I after the production.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately after the production, right.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well because I you know, I kept saying, you know,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: why are you making excuses for this woman? And finally,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: you know, because I'm very I'm very See. I have
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: a background of business, and I'm always higher, slow, fire fast,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: And as soon as I start seeing problems, I want
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: to start firing. I'm like, I don't even want to
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: deal with this because I mean, you know what I mean.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: It's it's like going up a mountaintop and and you're
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: going up this mountain and people are trying to pull
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: you back because they want to talk to you about Hey, hey,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: what about this this base camp? We were just at you,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: we talk about this. I don't like the way we're climbing.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: Why are we in these work clothes? It's too cold
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: up here, you know? And You're like, no, if we
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: just move forward and keep rolling this police problems aren't
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: actually problems. You're a problem inventor. You know, there's a
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: problem inventors and problems spot problems spotters and problems solvers.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: And and I kept telling the producers. I was like,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: you guys are problems spotters. You don't fix problems. And
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: then you know, of course I get the whole. I
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: get the condescending applied Jenna. Well, we're not as smart
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: as you.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, here's mine too. I feel like indie
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: filmmakers do not feel empowered to fire their producers. And
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: I've been in that situation myself. You have to work
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: in a clause in your contract that you you can't
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: get stuck with people who aren't helpful.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: Yes. Uh, and that is something too, I learned because
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: when I when I went to my entertainment lawyer, I
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: was saying, you know, we won't draw up new contracts.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: I was like, I for next project, I said, I
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: want to have in English, you know, in written word,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: what happens if they get fired on day one? What
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: happens if they get fired on the last day? What
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: what rights do they still have?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: You know, you know all that all that stuff. So basically,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: by the time I'm done, Jenna, these contracts are like
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: you know, you can pull it in front of you
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: and it would be like, you know, could it could
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: not it could stop bullets, you know what I mean? Totally?
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting to go back to your five million
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: dollar project, and that is that this is you testing
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: out which producers you can bring along on that project,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: what each ones are going to actually help you get
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: that project done, so that the investor can see, Okay,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: we've worked together before. Here's the thing with investment. They're
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: not investing in the project. They're investing in you and
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: your team. So it's crucial to remember that and to
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: and to realize that the that you need to stack
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: the in your favor as far as you as the
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: filmmaker is concerned, you know, I mean, obviously they're going
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: to care about the project, but they're going to care
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: more about whether or not you can get the project
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: done effectively without any of the drama. And if you
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: can show that you've done it successfully on a couple
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: of other films, then you're more likely to be able
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: to get some money in hand.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you know, uh, as you know, as far
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: as when I go to you know, actually present some
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: of this stuff, that's right. You know, they are trying.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: They are investing in, you know, in in you and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: the production and all that and your team, and you
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: know you have to have that that short track record,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: and you know they want to make sure that you
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: know you're not you know, obviously you know what you're
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: doing and you know it's not going to be wasted
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: and you have to come back. I mean, because I've
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: had people who've crowdfund of money and they've wasted at
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: all because they didn't understand how to budget that money.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, seriously, I mean I could go on
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: and on about that. I know we're starting to run
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: out of time, Jenna, but I actually I had a
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: question come in over Twitter. Oh, I wanted to ask you,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: and this is from podcast reviews at the Hippocritics, and
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: her question was, as a producer, what is the best
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: way to present yourself on set to the cast and
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: crew without overstepping your role?
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: Ooh, good question. Right. Here's the thing I wanted to
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: actually say this before. A lot of times producers are
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: creating problems that they can solve so they can be
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: the hero on set. Here's the great thing about good producers.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: Production happens before set even exists. So a lot of
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: times what I mean by that is crew will complain like, oh,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: that producer is not doing anything except sitting behind video village.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: If they're able to sit behind video village and everything
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: is running smoothly, it means they did their job, because
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: your job as a producer is mostly in pre production now.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: To be able to be a confident producer on set,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: don't create problems that you're gonna just fix right away.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: And if there is a problem, just handle it. Not
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: everybody needs to know that you're doing your job, you know.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: Like we had a set as saying on one of
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: our sets because we had a producer like that on it,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: where we were like, it's kind of your effing job, Like,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: just do your job, you know. But the way too,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: that I've learned is the most effective way to get
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: the crew to understand kind of where you're at is
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: be completely open to if they need anything, if they
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: have questions. Never ever say no without looking into it.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: Like if somebody says, hey, I need an extra thousand
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: dollars to get this piece of equipment that we really
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: need to this shot, your your response is always let
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 4: me check on it if you and then actually check
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: on it. Don't just say it and then sit there
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: and then be like no, I've seen people do that too.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: Like it's just being a genuine human and not having
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: ego and understanding that everybody on the set is there
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: to create the same vision. And be supportive and be
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: you know, fun, And I think the people that overstep
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: when they're producing on set are the ones that are
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: feeling insecure and so their ego comes into play, Like
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: do you know who I am? I'm the producer, Like honestly,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: if you don't, if all you have to say is hey, guys,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: I'm the producer, I'm here for you. If you need something,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: let me know. Otherwise I'm going to be sitting behind
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: the video village, you know, or I'm going to be
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: over here or whatever. Just that's how I would suggest
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: not stepping on people's toes, but still being the leader
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: and if something is going wrong, feel absolutely free to
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: speak up because it is your I mean, the director
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: likes to think it's their set, but you know, creatively
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: it's absolutely one the director's set. But if you see
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: a safety issue, you go to the ad. Understand what
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: people's positions are is really important too, you know, like
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: you said about like you said Dave, about the producer
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: who is coming to you about schedule and ad stuff.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: It's like, don't bother the director with stuff that's not
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: his job. Like, I think it's this important thing to
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: understand that once you're on set. There are jobs, and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: there are our departments, and there are guidelines, and respect them.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: As much as you respect the crew, they'll respect you
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: as a producer.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very good advice. And you know, because respect
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: is a two way stream, right. So yeah, and I know, people,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: you know, can can definitely tell when you know a
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: producer has it together, and then they can also tell
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: when a prouser just doesn't give ah, and they just
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: kind of you know, And I mean I had real
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: quick to just to sort of had this side. A
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: friend of mine, he went on to set one time
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: and the there was two producers who were on just
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: sitting on crates, just playing NBA jam on their iPads,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: and he was like, what the hell, He's like, they
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: should be getting this to go, like this is the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: first day of film. Yeah, and they were just playing
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: and he said that you could tell from the get
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: go it was not going to be a good a
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: good production. Jenna, I know, Yeah, it's that that. I mean, honestly,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess the director just basically just at
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: that point just gave up at the beginning, which this.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: Never I know that we're almost out of time, but
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 4: can I comment on that really quick.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: So here's the deal with what I was saying before
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: about educating people on what producers do. Oftentimes, producers that
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: are inexperienced think that making a movie is literally just
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: making the movie, meaning shooting, getting all the things ready
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: for shooting, and then post. But the reality is a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: true producer, an indie producer, is somebody who can see
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: the entire project from start to finish. And what that
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: means is, you know, working backwards from distribution to marketing,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: to PR, to post to production, to pre production to
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: development to funding. All of those areas are the producer's job, right,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: And so those two producers who are playing freaking MBA
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: jam like I'm all mad right now, Like I would
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: have literally went up to them and been like, are
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: you serious? Do you have distribution for your movie yet?
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: Do you have a marketing plan? Do you have the
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: PR in place? What are you doing to make sure
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: that this film doesn't just die once it's finished? That's
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: the producer's job. So if you're ever on set and
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: you've done a great job, get thing was set together,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: and you think there's nothing left to do, there's so
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: much more to do, so you know, get out there
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: and do it. It's basically my this.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: And that's very good advice. Jenna, Jenna.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: Where people find you out online Jenna Edwardsmedia dot com
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: at Jenna Edwards on Twitter, Jenna Edwards Media on Facebook
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: and Instagram.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: Jenna Edwards. I want to say thank you so much
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: for coming on.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. This was really
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: really fun.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah it was. It was a total blast. And uh,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: you know what, I'll have to have you back on
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: some time we can continue to talk about because there's
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff we didn't we didn't get it
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: then mentioned we were, we went on these you know that,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: and that's you know that, that's the side a great conversation.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: So uh, Jenna, I want to say thank you and
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: I wish you the best of ute you too.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: We'll talk soon, Tell you soon, Jennay Bye bye bye.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at any from LS
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: dot forward slash eight fifty four and if you have
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: And leave a good review for the show.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: It really helps us out a lot.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: Guys.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you again so much for listening.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: INDIEFILM hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
• 1:12:26
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• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: dot com.