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MKUltra · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Destroy. Welcome to Conspiracy the Show with your hosts Adam
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Todd Brown and Connor mixed Pattern.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm Adam Todd Brown,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I'm Connor mcsped.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: My mouth is.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Still on fire. You're gonna hear me say that at
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: the beginning of every episode this month.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: This is after Adam took like seven to one hitter rips.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: So I am I'm smoking the sleepy weed during the
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: day because it has more painkilling properties. And I took
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: a bunch of vibue profen and we are powering through.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny is UH is one of the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: best life acts. A lot of every life act I've
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: ever heard is dumb, except for one of them. If
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: you're what about forgetting something in the morning, put it
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: in your shoes? Great life act.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: That is great.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: You're not even though your shoes. The other one, Ramsey
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: with Dowie, who I told you about the toothache last episode,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: told me if you're too high, take some ibuprofen sobers up.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know that it does. Yeah. So if
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: you if UH, and if your guy like me, I
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: don't smoke, weat often, but I'll do that Gateway show
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: where you gonna have to get high into a set,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: just because it's such a wonderful show. Benny Anderson is
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: a buddy of mine. I like him, I like doing it.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I always get too high, take a couple of ibuprofen,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and then I'm back down to earth.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: So welcome back to mind Control month, week number two. Yeah,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: we're talking about the mind Control program.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: The Toyota than if not trusting the government.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: We're talking about MK Ultra today.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Ooh, the fucking man. This this is like the the
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: the rolling Stones of the Beatles of Mine. This is
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: just a business like Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talked.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised we haven't done an episode about this yet.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: It's just it's just been a lot. It's been so
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: many cameo appearing. It's finally got a slow movie, you know.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's one of those things where we talk about
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: it a lot, and there's a lot of information about it,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: but there's also not a lot of information about it.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll get to why that is later. But
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: it's like one of these things where it's like you
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: can look when you're looking at an exo planet, you
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: have to look at how it's gravity affects the sun,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and you got to look at and you got to
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: dissect the light that comes like that when it passes
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: in front of that that sun at orbits around, and
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: you got to dissect the light and see how it
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: affects those properties and tease out information from that data.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: It's like you almost learn more about it from just like, oh,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: what's what was going on in the jungles of Cuba
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: in the seventies, Like, you know, you kind of you
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: kind of get information about it thirdhand and through it's
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: it's the impressions and little other things.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and uh so, yeah, we're going to just
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: go through the history of mk Ultra and some of
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: the experiments, and then next week we're going to do
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: an episode about Wormwood, which is a documentary about I
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: think the craziest moment in well, I don't know.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: That's the thing.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: You hear like that one seems crazy. The stuff depicted
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: in the Wormwood documentary is crazy, But then you hear
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: about some of the other stuff in here, and you're like,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: i'd watch documentary about that. Yeah, I mean, but Wormwood
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: is the one that there's a lot of information to
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: make a whole documentary and it's it's creepy, but sos
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: mk Ultra, let's go through it. Wormwood also the name
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: of like every shitty shop teacher in high school. Yeah,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: it's I still any kind of wood nat like I
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: had them as greenwood that just like yeah sucks. You know,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: is wormwood? Does that pertain to absinthe in some way?
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Oh? I think so? Yeah.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like wormwood is where the active ingredient in
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: old timey absinthe comes from.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Old time Todd Brad's old tay as.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Like the cool absinthe that makes you hallucinate and do
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: knife tricks, not the bullshit you can buy in liquor
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: stores now that has.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Not the vodka with the you know, fucking anti freeze. Yeah.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think wormwood related, Like I've watched this
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: documentary before and I have to watch it again so
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: we can do this episode. But I still never really
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: caught why they call it wormwood. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: they mentioned it, but I just didn't pay attention. I
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: don't think i've gotten there either, But uh yeah, First
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: we're going to talk about mk Ultra, which spawns the
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: events that become the documentary Wormwood. It's the code name
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: given to a program of experiments conducted on human subjects,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: mostly illegal and carried out by the CIA. CIA MK
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: means it was sponsored by the CIA's Technical Services staff.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Ultra was chosen as the second word because it had
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: been previously used to designate the most secret classification of
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: World War two intelligence.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Just the cool ass name, too cool name.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: Definitely the kind of thing you want to keep secret,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: so all of that tracks.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: It's kind of it's kind of like Info Wars, where
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: it's the coolest fucking name for anything. It really is,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: but it's just the most evil actual thing.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It was headed by Sidney Gottlieb, who will come up
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: a lot more in the Wormwood episode, and started on
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: orders of CIA director Alan Dollas on April thirteenth, nineteen
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: fifty three. Depending on who you believe, the intent was
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: either to develop mind control techniques or just so we
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: could become better at torture and interrogation. There are some
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: who assert that the goal was to create a Manchurian candidate.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Shout out to last episode. I don't know that just
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: became the last episode reference. Yeah, danger, the fucking callback hack.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: We don't argue enough for me to use it as
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: intensity eagle, which is its Yeah, it's preferred method. It's
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: when an argument breaks out, intensity eagle flies through the room.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: But it's ten o'clock in the morning. What the fuck
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: are we going to argue about? Man, that are on
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: the same page about most things.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Don't diet soda is probably the most heated debate that's
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: ever happened. So, yeah, it's the callback hawk.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Uh So. Mk Ulture was organized through the Scientific Intelligence
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Division of the CIA and coordinated with the Special Operations
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Division of the US Army's Chemical Core, which that's a thing.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: That's a that's a cool ass that it's like a
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Dead Kennedy song. Chemical Core. They I looked it up.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: They're they're the ones who are just what it sounds like,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: defending us from chemical attacks but also nuclear attacks, because
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I suppose that's radiation is a chemical of sorts.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: No, it's not not not even that science doesn't add up. Man,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: this is the world's most trusted podcast, Huh isn't that?
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And we have that in Latin underneath the Iron Giant.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I need to figure that out in Latin and put
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: that's a good idea. Hey, I'm gonna change that ship
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to Latin.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah that would be fine. Yeah, that'd be dope, all right, Yeah,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: well fucking that'll.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Be a T shirt.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: So the programs used various means to manipulate subject's mental state,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: sometimes and often unwittingly. The methods included surreptitious administration of
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: drugs or other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal abuse,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: and other forms of psychological torture.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Just everything you can do to break somebody down.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everything you'll experience if you join a cult, become
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: a comic, Yeah, join a cult.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Any sensory deprivation when you start hanging out with Joe Rogan.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, moved to Los Angeles, Yeah, any of those things,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Like we said, it began in the early fifties, officially sanctioned.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Inviting people to like your fan page. I think that
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: could break somebody down quicker than LSD and fucking you
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: know whippings.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, getting those invites also, No, Yeah, and you're just
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: like O budd, I like when I get invites to shows.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: In New York. Oh yeah that's fine. Yeah, you moved.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Be mindful of who you're inviting or just like the
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: dude who somehow gets your number and text you a
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: horribly photo shopp flyer for like an urban singles event
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: at a bar that's seventy five miles away from you.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Always fun. Yeah, that's welcome to comedy everybody.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: So it began in the early fifties, officially sanctioned in
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: fifty three, reduced in scope in nineteen sixty four, more
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: so in nineteen sixty seven, than finally halted, and seventy three.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Allegedly like it was, it was halted.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Basically that's when Watergate was at its height, and it
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: wasn't so much halted. It was just everyone in the
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: government doing shady shit all at one time.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Was like, shred everything, destroy it.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: People are paying attention now, chill the fucking mom's coming over,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: clean up the apartment, put away the bong. You know.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that kind of was the country in the seventies.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yea yeah.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Once Watergate hit, like co Intel Pro came out, mkulture
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: came out, we were like, goddamn, we need to be
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: protected from the government.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And now all these years later we're like, nah,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: We're just like, yeah, they cleaned, werena have another watergates?
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: So no, yeah, it would never happen. So the scope
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: of this program is so fucking huge. It included forty
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: four colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons, and
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: pharmaceutical companies. This is a quote from a US Supreme
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Court case involving mk ULTRA. The program was quote concerned
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: with the research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: The program consisted of some one hundred and forty nine
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: sub projects, which the agency contracted out to various universities,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: research foundations, and similar institutions. At least eighty institutions and
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty five private researchers participated. Because the
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: agency funded mk ULTRA indirectly, many of the participating individuals
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: were unaware that they were dealing with the CIA.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They kind of just like, it's almost like money laundering.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: But they're just like, ah, let's just break it down
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: into t me little pieces. You can't get all.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: They set up a bunch of front companies basically and
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: approached all of these different universities saying, hey, we just
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I guess kind of want to use your resources to
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: do this testing. We just don't have scientists or labs.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: We just have the desire to know what happens if
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: you lock someone in a completely black box for twelve
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: hours and then spit on them.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like the size of this thing is so
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And this is one of the things I always point
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: to when people like the most One of the most
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: common things people say to refute conspiracy theory is, oh,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: so all these people would have to keep the secret
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: for this long. Yeah, this shit went on from fifty
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: three to seventy three at the minimum without anyone fucking knowing. Yeah,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't like it was happening at one place.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: It was happening all around the country, and as we'll
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: find out, all around the world.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: It was so decentralized. Yeah, And it's just like if
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: you it's like that scene and the whole elephant thing,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: where it's just like you just see a little teeny
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: piece of it and you're like, why why are we
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: testing this guy's blood? I don't know, you came in
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: from Georgia and think people in Georgia are like, Yeah,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: why are we giving this guy these pills and doing
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: a sleep study where he's got to be alone with
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: this black bot and then you know, they just like
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: they just piece it out so you can't tell what's
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: going on.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, yeah, they did a really great job of
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: spreading it out, but it was it's it's just blows
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: my mind how vast it was and how nothing ever
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: got out about it.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: So it's it's a great thing to point to. And also,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think if you're working on this and
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: you do see and you are one of the guys
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: that actually has to pull the trigger on some of
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: the fucked up shit, you're like, well, I'm I'm not
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: fucking with these guys, you know, like yeah, and it's
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: like there are still people.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like there are still people who would hear
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: about this, and even with all the documentation that's available,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: would just kind of be like, h I'm sure it
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: was nothing though.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. Like this well, and like the thing,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: it's one of these things that, like you were talking about
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: with the Trump stuff last episode, it's.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Like it's so outrageous it sounds like it has to
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: be fake. Like experimenting on prisoners and prostitutes and homeless
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: people is an anime plot line that is that is.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Something that happens in full metal alchemists. Like that is
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: not that happened in America in the twentiethcent Like what.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very recently. Yeah, well my mom was alive.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, your parents might have been part of this, sure, Yeah,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: your parents took acid in the sixties.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: It might have been a government program. Every time my
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: mom sees a bluebird, she tries to choke me. So,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I mean this could have been Maybe that's what those
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: flute lessons really were.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: This is a we won't read all of these, but
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: there are some crazy things on this list. This is
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: from a nineteen fifty five document, one of the few
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: documents about MK Ultra that eventually got out.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: And we'll talk about how that happened in a bit.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the like the fucking az Tech libraries,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Like we have like two books.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is a list of mind altering substances
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: that were studied under the mk Ultra program.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Substances which will.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Promote illogical thinking and impulsiveness to the point where the
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: recipient would be discredited in public.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Aka the Tom guss Here.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Substances which increase the efficiency of menation and perception. Materials
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: which cause the victim to age faster or slower immaturity
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: materials which will promote the intoxicating effect of alcohol. So
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: it seems like the list is losing steam at that point.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Like okay, you're trying to get people drunker,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: take a zole off like whatever. And now then.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Here comes this materials which will produce the signs and
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: symptoms of recognized diseases in a reversible way.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: So they may be used for ma lingering, et cetera.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: So that's basically they're looking for a pill they can
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: slip you where a week later they'll go.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Mmm, you have aids. Yeah, and then it turns out
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: it turns out you don't from high school exactly exactly,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah yeah yeah. I was like, wait,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: we weren't arguing, would you were like, leave my friend
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: out of this after you brought her up.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Materials which will cause temporary permanent brain damage and loss
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: of memory, temporary or permanent brain damage, Substances which will
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: enhance the ability of individuals to withstand privation, torture, and
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: coercion during interrogation, and so called brainwashing.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So they're trying to make like a firewall against somebody
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: else doing this yeah. Yeah.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: That was a big part of this program, was not
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: only to find out if we could get our soldiers
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: and people to do crazy things under drugs, but could
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: the enemy get our people to do things all?
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: And we got to feed them some psychological weedies in case. Yeah,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: fucking soviets get a hold of them. Uh.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Material materials and physical methods which will produce amnesia for
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: events preceding and during their use.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Yikes.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Yep, physical methods of producing.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: In black flashlight basically pretty much physical methods of producing
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: shock and confusion over extended periods of time, and capable
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: of surreptitious use. Substances which produce physical disablements such as
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: paralysis of the legs, acute anemia, et cetera. Substances which
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: will produce a chemical that can cause blisters. Here comes
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: another crazy one. Substances which alter personality structure in such
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: a way the tendency of the recipient to become dependent
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: upon another person is enhanced.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Ooh, some of my girlfriends took that one. He in
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: all seriousness, that is horrifying.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's terrifying.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe they did, just like it turns you
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: into a fucking mother duck, you know.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Where they just like a material which will cause mental
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: confusion of such a type, the individual under its influence
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: will find it difficult to maintain a fabrication under questioning.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: So truth serum.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Substances which will lower the ambition and general working
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: efficiency of men when administered in undetectable amounts.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: It's called porn.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called porn or pesticides probably, Yeah, corner weed.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Let's look into what we're spraying in Guatemala before we
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: write that one off. Substances which promote weakness or disorder,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: distortion of the eye, sight or hearing faculties, preferably without
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: permanent effects. Because you don't want to be cruel, No,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: you want to be ethical when you're dosing your population
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: with drugs.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: They don't know about it, and I mean it's not
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: like to find a temporary drug for this. You might
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: cause some permanent damage on some homeless prostitutes.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: But yeah, a knockout pill which can be surreptitiously administered
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: in drinks, food cigarettes, as an aerosol, et cetera, which
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: will be safe to use, provide a maximum of amnesia,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: and be suitable for use by agent types on an
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: ad hoc basis, so cosby shit, yeah, you want coludes.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I want to you know, I want a Listerine strip
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that like roofies you for a week.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: A material which can be this is the last one.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: A material which can be surreptitiously administered by the above
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: roots and which in very small amounts will make it
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: impossible for a person to perform physical.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Activity AKA that good good am I right? Right?
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Indicate So this isn't even a conspiracy theory, like this
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: is just a thing that happened.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: This was their shopping list for yeah technology, this is
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: what they're looking for.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: And this was just to drive home how much of
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: a conspiracy theory mk ULTRA is not.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: It's a matter of fact.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: This was the conclusion of that Supreme Court case that
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier. Between nineteen fifty three and nineteen sixty six,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: the Central Intelligence Agency financed a wide ranging project code
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: named mk ultra, concerned with the research and development of chemical, biological,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: control human behavior. And the reason that case happened was
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: so they could set a precedent so other people involved
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: in this could sue the government for things that happened
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: during MK Ultra. So this unlike a lot of our episodes,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: this isn't even one where we have to wonder is
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: this real?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like yeah, the Supreme Court, Yeah this
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: is wead in and said, yeah this happened.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: We gotta you know, Yeah, this is, like I said,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: the example I always point to when people are so
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: quick to dismiss that anything this crazy could happen without
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: someone finding out.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Like people probably.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Found out and they as we'll learn in the Wormwood
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: documentary fell Out Windows, I did some are quotes around
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: fell Yeah, it's a crazy fucking story.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: And again, I mean this mine sounds stupid on the
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: conspiracy podcast, But I don't think I'm a like the
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: strong enough guy to be like, I'm just like, you know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I gotta go tell the truth. I would just be like, hey,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I like my house, Should I like to tell these jokes? Yeah,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: It's like I would just I don't know if I
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: don't know if i'd be the guy to be like, Okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I gotta send this to Assange, I gotta go to a.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Wese or whatever tend to write these people off.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: It's crazy, but it takes a lot of courage to
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, come out, and especially if you're someone like
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: we'll do We're gonna do an episode about Harp coming
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: up soon. And you know, there's this guy who worked
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: on harp for all these years and then just finally
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: one day was like, Oh, I get what's happening. Yeah,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: and like started telling people and like even if that
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: guy dies, if that guy gets murdered at some point,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: like most of the country would just be like, oh,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: it was probably a coincidence.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's always a chance. And it's like like
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: that level of exposure and criticism will break you down.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Like maybe once or twice a month from podcasting or
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, somebody calls me an asshole on Twitter,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: and I'm like I'm always I'm just like kind of
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: bu it's kind of upset. I'm like I don't think
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: they understand me, and I feel bit and like.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: I just miscommunicated, and uh it stresses me out a
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: little bit, you know, and then I think, like, what
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: if that happened times a thousand every day, like one
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: of these people.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that that same thing happens with me with comments
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: like on pay Treon, Like I sometimes get to a
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: point where I just can't read them.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're mostly nice, but it'll be almost two
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: where it's just like, oh, I want to say so
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: much to you right now, and yeah, and it's just
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: pay attention.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Gets under your skin, and it's like if I, if I,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: if I just you compile all those and just read
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: them to me, like back to back and then try
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: to have a conversation with me about something that's very
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: important to me, it'd be like I'd probably look a
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: little crazy. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Uh So, let's talk about some of the experiments that
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: happened under mk ultra. Let's talk about the early LSD experiments.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: LSD was the main drug for most of the programs
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: that happened under MK Ultra.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was really like like what George Washington Carver
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: did for peanuts, they did LSD. They were just like,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: all right, what if we make them into a butter
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: or an oiler.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they were really interested in this shit.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Their first aim was to determine if Soviet spies could
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: be made to defect against their will, and like we
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, if the Soviets could do the same thing
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: to spies. And at first they were just administering LSD
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: to mental patients, prisoners, drug addicts, and prostitutes. And I
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: say at first, as if that's the part where it
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: was ethical, and then it goes off the rails like
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: it was bad from the beginning, Like that's all bad
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: because they were administering it in most cases without people knowing,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Like that's it would be one thing if this happened
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: and we were just like, holy shit, that many Americans
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: went along with this shit and agreed to be involved
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: in these But no, it was.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: A lot of people just thought they just organically went crazy. Yeah,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: it was just it was literally horrifying. It was human experiments. Yeah,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: it's Nazi shit. If you took LSD and didn't know
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: that you took it, like and just how your reaction, Like, well,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: how fucking awful would that be? Like having a nightmare
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: while you were awake? Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And one of the this is a quote from one
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: of the documents that was uncovered, One CIA agent referred
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: to the people they were doing testing on as quote,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: people who could not fight back. They also administered LSD
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: to CIA employees, military personnel, doctors, other government agents, and
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: members of the general public.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: So we could have just said everybody.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just about everybody.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Everybody got LSD from the CIA. This was often done
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: without informed consent of the subjects, a violation of the
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Nuremberg Code, which we agreed to follow after World War Two.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: So we basically went from that to like, but what
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: if we don't?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that? Nine years later?
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're just like, ah, it's been long enough, you know.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: And the crazy thing is the patients who did know
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: about it, who went along with it willingly ended up
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: getting more extreme experiments done on them. In one instance,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: seven willing subjects in Kentucky, we're all given LSD for
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: seventy seven consecutive days.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: God, that sounds a good nightmare.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I even take a day off from smoking weed every
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: once in a while. Oh yeah, Like seventy seven days
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: in a row is a lot for Like, if you
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: jog seventy seven days in a row, you'll probably die. Yeah, man,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do I'm sort of like sleeping
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: and even sleeping, yeah, like I don't want to do
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: anything alters my conscious that much for seventy seven days.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: In a row.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fucking nuts.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I don't want to drink a thermos of iced coffee
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: for seventy seven days in a row.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: So those were the early experiments. Then Sydney Gottlieb gets involved. Yeah,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Sydney Gottlieb, Oh, I get what you're doing there.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: It's nothing.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: He was the head chemist on MK Ultra, and he
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: felt that using LSD just for interrogations was a little
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: too limited. Maybe you could use it on covert operations also, Yeah,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: So in order to test this, he launched a bunch
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: of experiments that mostly revolved around him just giving people
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: LSD in public settings without their knowledge.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Hello, would you like a complimentary bag of nothing to
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: see here? Heavily buttered, weirdly spicy popcorn? You know, just
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: like what is how was he doing this? Was he?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Is there? Just a dude with a crew cut haircut
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and really broad shoulders. It suddenly gets a job in
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: an ice cream parlor. He's just like here you go,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: a little girl like you know.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like they say in one of the articles
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: we read for this that it basically at one point
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: just became an operational hazard of working in the CIA
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: for a few years, that you might just end up
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: getting dosed with LSD at some point.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you'll be in me. I'm making my own
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing my own coffee from home, you know.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: And it's like, and that's how one of them had
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: they there's a story about a CIA operative, not even
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: an agent, just like a dude who was there to
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: help and comes to CIA headquarters and they spike his
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: coffee with LSD and he ends up running naked out
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: the building and yelling at the cars because there's monsters
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: in them. Like this was the most unethical ship imaginable.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And it's not like I feel like, because it didn't
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: involve cutting people up, there's some sense that it maybe
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: wasn't as bad.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: But yeah, people died from this a lot. I mean died.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Fucking with your brain is one of the I mean
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: it's it's you can kind of fix a back or
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: a foot, like if you're if you're fucking someone's body.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know, like that's a greater prison
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: to have your mind, like irreica be altered.
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and irrevocably, irrevocably. Yeah, there it is, irrevocably.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got it, we got it. We'll make that
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: a sound bite on the on the board. So Sidney Gottlieb.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: He's gonna come up a lot in the Wormwood documentary
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: because that involves the case of a man named doctor
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Frank Olson, who is definitely worth I mean, there's a
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: six part documentary about his case, so obviously there's a
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: lot of details to get into. But the short story
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: is Sydney Gottlieb at one point doses Frank Olsen with
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: LSD and it sends this guy into a depression that
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: ends with him allegedly jumping out a hotel window to
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: his death. But whether that was a suicide or not is,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I guess open for debate, But it's not really open
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: for debate. He did not fucking commit suicide. He got
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: goddamn murdered.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, at least they picked a like, oh
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: you're tripping on acid, you'll jump out of a window.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: They picked an appropriate suicide for him, you know. Yeah, Yeah,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: that was a good Sometimes sometimes with these fake suicides,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I feel like they just don't match the person.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, you know, yeah, Like we did that episode
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: about crazy suicides and there was the Oklahoma City guy
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: who remember he like just went on lit his wrists
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: and basically stabbed himself in his car and then traversed
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: a mile of rough terrain to shoot himself in the
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: woods with a gun that was found fifty feet away,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: but not until the FBI showed up in a helicopter.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: That was there was so much but yeah, we're.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: The crazy ones for thinking maybe the government does some
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: of this ship sometimes.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that one was just a very sloppy. They
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: had two guys with a very different vision for the band,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and one was like, he's a stabber, all right, he's
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a stabbing type. This guy's a gunshot type. And he's like, oh,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: you shot him. Throw the guy. Let's get out, you know, yeah,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I can tripping on acid, I can't do this right now.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I kind of feel like whoever pulled off the first
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: thing assumed that they had killed him, and somehow word
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: got out that.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: No, he's he's he's we gotta move there, we gotta
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: move her. This guy's fighting.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: There was a blood trail going from that car to
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: the woods.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, does he have a gun? No, all right, we'll
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: go go to the gun falsify some records. So let's
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: talk about drop a big magnet on the security tape
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: so it fucking erases all of them.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about Operation Midnight Climax. This is the most
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: CIA fucking thing.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: This ever happens. Is a leisure midnight climax. Shut up,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: you fucking night ranger song. Yeah.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: If that sounds like porn shit, it's because it's some
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: porn shit. M Basically the Settlemadam, basically the CIA. This
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: is another Sydney Gottlieb joint. Uh, basically the CIA. They
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: had all these safe houses around San Francisco, which is
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: always such a thrilling thought to me because you know
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: that's the case in like every moderately decent sized town.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's probably a CIA safe house, and I
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: love that.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: We're probably at most a mile away from one.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's probably a CIA safe apartment.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: There's probably a c I safe house underneath us. Yeah,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: like there's probably one in the sewers. Yeah.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: There are all those crazy tunnels under downtown La.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on down there.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Uh So the Operation Midnight Climax, they have all these
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: safe houses around San Francisco and they set.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Up brothels in them.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And these brothels each room has a one way mirror
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: and they're basically attracting people to these brothels because they're
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: looking for test subjects who will be too embarrassed to
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: talk about what happened to them, which not a bad
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: strategy and.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Find at all. I mean, yeah, you're not gonna oh
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: oh honey, I had the craziest day.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: You know, you won't believe what happened when I fucked
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: this prostitute.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: After works turns out Cthulu the fuck.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: So the uh the idea there, yeah, was to round
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: up subjects who'd be too embarrassed. They dosed the men
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: who came to this brothel with LSD and then just
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: use the one way mirrors to film and document everything
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: that was happening. In some cases, the subjects were interrogated
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: after under bright lights and told their trips would be
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: extended if they didn't give up all of their secrets.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: And this included CIA employees, US military personnel agents suspect,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: and agents suspected of working for the other side in
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the Cold War. How were they advertising these brothels?
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is did they just drop did they just
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: like is it like a bullets you know, just like
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I go ahead, go ahead.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Mcgilly's car. Yeah, that I don't really understand that part.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: How they got all of this one particular subset of
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: people to show up at these brothels.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Weird. Yeah, so at once. I mean, I just want
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: to know, as a live events promoter and marketing guy,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, how do I I'm trying to get people
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to the North Bar in Chicago. I mean, if you're
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: getting CIA agents to a brothel, you know something I
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, the Drink Special or.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: North Bar is so fucking great. Yeah, you're gonna love
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: that place.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: No, thanks for the tip. Yeah, yeah, we're going there.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: We're excited. Yeah.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: I recorded my album there.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Uh accidentally a fan showed up and just bootlegs and
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that sounds really good. I'm gonna
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: put that out. Yeah, and uh yeah, we've done like
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: three or four shows there, always good times.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: We'll be back. I think we'll be back there in May.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Oh you and Shid, Yeah, I think that's one of
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: the next shows we're going to try and book. Oh yeah, guys,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: fucking stay on top of that because uh, I'm so
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: excited to go out there. Anyway. Yeah, we find the
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: CIA safe house to the Walking Tour, you know.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, get dosed with LSD before my set. I
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: did a show on mushrooms once and I was funny
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: as fuck.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe that it was.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: It was so I was just like, I'm not gonna
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: tell jokes, I'm just gonna go up and I killed
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: and I almost never do that.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that that is a It really
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: really spoils you when you just pull something great out
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: of your eyes, like I don't have to try ever,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: and then you go to the next time you're like, oh,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: maybe I do.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: And then you're like, oh, that was the drugs. I
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: get it now.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just ate a bacon flavored cupcake on stage
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: and called everybody Hillbillies for like forty five minutes in
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Oklahoma the other week and crush and I was just like, oh, yeah,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I could just do this, I could just be I'll
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: just make up the whole new show. And then the
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: next night I just got my dick kicked in and
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, the magic isn't always there.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's talk about the Canadian experiments, because at
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: one point we take this shit across the border because
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: the CIA.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Canadians are too polite to fucking protest being drugged exactly.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: You know, the CIA at one point recruits Scottish psychiatrist
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Donald Ewen Cameron, who was the creator of the psychic
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: driving concept. Yeah, psychic driving involved putting patients into a
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: drug induced coma for extended amounts of time, in one
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: case three months, and playing tape loops of noise or
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: simple repetitive phrases intended to alter the patient's behavior.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: That's straight up what they do in Brave New World. Yeah.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the clockwork Orange. It's all the dystopian
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: shit you've ever heard about.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like Delta's love to wear brown khaki
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and do menial grunt work. Yeah.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: And at one point a psychiatrist was like, yeah, maybe
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: that won't work onto something, and the CIA was like, yeah.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Maybe it will.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I just do like that. The pitch process for the
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: ideas is just like what if we did the most
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: obvious ass shit. It's like when you're a kid and
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: you're like, maybe I can make a rocket if I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: put a bunch of sparklers on my bike. You know,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: He's like, maybe I can make a fucking brainwashed mind
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: slave if I give him acid and have a guy
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: say kill the president over and over. You know, it's
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: just like it's just it's just the first thing you
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: think of, and they're like, well, let's just do that
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: to two thousand prostitutes. You know.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were, we were a crazy bunch in the sixties.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what's going on now. There's probably
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: there's probably a dude where they just j facebook into
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: his dick and we're just going to read about him someday,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: so our children will be podcasting about him from the moon.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: It'll be Mars. There's monsters on the moon.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so he uh, oh, Nazis I mean am I right? Yeah?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Nazi monsters, Yeah, nonsters.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Over the course of seven years or so, he was
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: paid sixty nine thousand dollars, which doesn't sound like a
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: lot of as, right, But that's more than six.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: The pussy crow. Let me let me hear pussy crow
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: really quick. Yeah, it's the pussy craw.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: That's more than six hundred thousand dollars adjusted for inflation.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: And he was paid this money to carry out MK
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: ultra experiments in Canada. And that's interesting because that when
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: you hear six hundred thousand, that's a lot of money,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: but spread out over seven years. That makes it easier
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: to hide.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's because that's that's the sale, an annual budget
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: each time, and one hundred thousand is a drop in
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: the bucket.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: No, totally, that's like that's like a a CPA or something,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And when he teamed up with mk Ultra, he
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: added a new layer to his technique called depattering or deppatterning.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: This involved using electroconvulsive therapy at way higher levels than recommended,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: combined with LSD in equally high levels, in an attempt
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: to break down the subject's personality so then the psychic
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: driving half of the operation would be a little more
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: it's more of a slate.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like ego death. If you do
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of drugs, people say you get ego death
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: where you lose your concept of self.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And they were trying to speed that process along
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: because I've felt that before.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when I smoked weed when I was a kid,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: and I think it might have been laced with something
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: which is scary, like a PC pierce, because it was
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: very very intense experience where I just lost, you know,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: sense of myself as an individual and I filled one
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: with the universe or whatever in a very very strange
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: way that I'll always remember. Yeah, and if this was happening, well,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: it's ape loop telling me to kill the president was playing,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, probably killed the place. Yeah yeah, I'm the
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: guy that kills the president. Yeah, like that's what I
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: That's what I am.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: You know, Connor's gonna get brainwashed to kill the presidents
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: and said that probably.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're gonna be like Bell.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Just went off somewhere at the CIA. They're like, we
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: got one.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: The Alexa two apartments over was just like noted.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: So many of these experiments were carried out on subjects
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: at the Allen Memorial Institute of McGill University in Montreal,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: and most of them had entered the institution for minor
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: issues like anxiety disorders or postpartum depression.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: They're like, we'll fix you up.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we got just the thing.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Treatment often resulted in subjects in continence, amnesia, forgetting how
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: to walk, forgetting their parents, or thinking their interrogators were
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: their parents.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Holy shit, seven years happened.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Where you just literally get to that that baby duck
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: mode where you're like, I don't know, you seem to
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: be in charge here, because ever since I saw you,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I've lost my entire identity to this chemical? Are you
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: my dad? Like?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: That's so haunting that is and as horrifying as that is,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: this just gets We have four more notes on this
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: thing to go through, and it just gets so much scarier.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, For one thing, these experiments were duplicated in
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: England by British psychiatrist William Sargent, who was also involved
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: with intelligence services and also experimented without patient consent. So
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: we took this shit international at one point. Yeah, so
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: that's creepy.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: It was like, hey, buds, even do you have any
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: luck with this? And this is the international? Can I
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: borrow a cup of sugar? Sugar from the neighbor. It's
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: just like, have you gotten these homeless prostitutes to start
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: shooting people yet? Have you figured out? And that's the.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Thing when people are like, okay, yeah, we did it,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: but the government said nothing ever came from it, so
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: they just gave.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: It up, did they?
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they have read everything or would they have gone
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: to England and been like you gotta try this again?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm of two minds where I'm like,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: you know what government is great at wasting money, yeah,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, uh, they didn't really earn
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: the money, they just kind of get it right, and
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: because of that, you just sort of fuck off with it.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: It's like when I do a big stand up gig
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: like a college or something, I'm just like, this is
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I would have done this. It's so easy, Like I
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: just I don't, I don't know, I just fucking blow
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: it out to It's the same way. It's just a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: massive scal So maybe maybe they would spend twenty years
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: fucking with this stuff and not really getting anything and
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: just keep doing it. Maybe they're still doing it and
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: maybe they're still getting Yeah, I have no idea.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: But in the same way with stand up money, whenever I
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: get paid to do stand up I'm like, oh, party money.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: Like I've done like something, see this coming dumb paid
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: for comedy.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Like dumb corporate gigs or something where it's just like
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: too much money, like I either make not enough at
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: all or way too much at one time, and I'm yeah,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: when I want to get one of those where I'm
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: just like, I don't fucking no, I guess I'm getting
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: the hats. I mean, I don't even wear them. But
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I got hats now.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, yeah, I've done show like you do twenty
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: minutes and get like one hundred and fifty dollars.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: It's like, I don't deserve this. Yeah, what am I
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: gonna do it?
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: I am going to waste this money.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: I remember sure, I remember being I remember being like
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: nineteen or twenty and I did this gig and I
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: was getting like two fifty for the gig and then
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I sold like ten T shirts and I just had
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: like five hundred dollars in my wallet and I'm twenty.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: I was just like, what this is like a month
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: at ross?
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: And I'm just gonna be my life now, dude.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just I'm getting so I'm getting like an unnecessary
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: amount of Popeyes, all right, Like so I don't I
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what they uh yeah, I
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: mean I obviously think they fucking run it something.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that part is terrifying. This part's even worse.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: During this time, Cameron became the first Chairman of the
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: World Psychiatric Association as well as President of the American
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: and Canadian Psychiatric Associations, which we have reached a islestone
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: in my life where for the first time I'm like,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: maybe those scientologists are onto something. Yeah, because psychiatry is
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: like their main enemy. Yeah, They're like that's a fucking
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: government tool to keep you controlled.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I yeah, I kind of.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: And I've always been like, ah, shut the fuck up.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: And now I hear that this guy became the head
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: of the American Psychiatric Association.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and You're like, oh, okay, right o Ron, Yeah,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: there's life out there in the boat man, like that seems.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: You got any jobs, you know, like floors I can
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: scrub for no money.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Well, I work my way up through the levels. Yeah.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Can I do like a I can flatten that button? Yeah?
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Can I do it like a college like like like
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: work through school thing where I just like sell like
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: scantrons at the student store so I can get a
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: discount on my fucking electro shock that like tests and
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: courses or whatever.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's crazy. I didn't look into how long
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: he held that job. But this guy is that's like
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: the the you know, like that's the organization that's.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Like being gay is a disease or whatever, you know,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: like they make all those like classifications on what isn't
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: isn't illness, and like you.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Know, in her book The Shock Doctrine, Naomi Klein argues
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: that Cameron's research wasn't about mind controller brainwashing, but rather
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: about designing quote a scientifically based system for extracting information
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: from resistant sources, in other words, torture.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's also horrifying resistant sources. Yeah, and yeah,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: and I do like that, Like all this stuff goes
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: on and then you know, you hear about Guantanamo and
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, we turn it turns out just diseases
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: to make them sit on a pyramid while we played
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: justin Bieber songs, you know, I'm like, yeah, it turns
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: out we didn't have to completely atomize their brains with chemicals.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: We could just make them sit on a pyramid and
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: listen to music really loud. Yeah. Have you seen that ship.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: With those pyramids they had to sit on that Just
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: tear your asshole open, just them sit on top of like.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: A fucking big metal pyramid. Ah.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I guess that's a but like it
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: can't have taken m. K Ultra to come up with that.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: That's the thing.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: It's like, you can probably dooglyphics.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: And it didn't work, and you just like just went
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: to like, yeah, it turns out we give them a
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: bad chair and hurt their ears.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: It. I like to picture that there's like a shark
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: tank for CIA torture stuff where there's just like four
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: men in black walks and he's like, I call it
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: the pyramid, like yeah, we're in.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking for investing. I'm looking for forty thousand
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: men with families that were in the wrong place at
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: the wrong time, if you're willing to invest.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: This is another quote about this maybe being a means
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: of developing torture techniques stripped of its bizarre excesses. Doctor
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Cameron's experiments, building upon Donald O. Hebb's earlier breakthrough, laid
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: the scientific foundation for the CIA's two stage psychological torture method.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: That's a quote from Alfred W. McCoy, history professor at UW.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Madison that that's the good one, folks.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Dude, I've performed with that school. I love.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I mean I lived in Madison for six years. Yeah, yeah,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Madison's fucking great now. R W. Madison is the There's
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of University of Wisconsin's, but there's only one
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: that most of the people didn't vote for Trump.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I guess that would be the Uh yeah,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: that's like when I went to Kentucky and they're like,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: build a wall around Louisville please, you know.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about the Church committee. This is how
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: this finally comes out. In nineteen seventy three, CIA director
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Richard Helms ordered all MK ultra files to be destroyed.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just taking up so much space in
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: the Yeah, I mean, we just got to do something
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: with them.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: No, we don't want to waste your money. I mean
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: we're gonna waste six hundred thousand dollars a year turning
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Canadians into fucking evil fuck slaves. But I mean, you know,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: I mean we can't. That's a lot of rents on
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: that building's very high. We got to keep all the
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: other all the new torture records somewhere. Yeah. Yeah.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: The thing about MK Ultra we haven't even done, Like
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: what we're covering today is the information that's easy to find.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are books out there.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I still keep teasing the Courtney Love conspiracy theory episode
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: that we're gonna do at some point.
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that during Courtney Love month, and there is
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: a whole month.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: We could do a court I really think there was.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: It would be a little bit of a stretch, but
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: not that much of a stretch. We could make it work.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: But there is a book out there that alleges that
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: she was not only part of one of the people
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: who has experimented on during MK Ultra, but that she
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: was cultivated as a CIA operative after that.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: So dope, that's It's such an exciting theory.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I love the truth. Dude. It's fun too.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: It's out there and you just grab it and it
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: feels so good.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like finding a chunk of iron ore.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: You're like, I can bring this home and fashion it
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: into a podcast and feed my dog. It's just very rewarding.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: So they shred all these documents because the entire government's
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: doing that at this point. But because the government isn't
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: perfect surprise, they had accidentally stored about twenty thousand documents
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: in a financial records building on accident.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Bro, Thank you bureaucracy. Wow. You don't say it, you
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: don't say it often, but sometimes God love you fucking
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: the government waste.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, these documents were discovered after a nineteen seventy seven
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Freedom of Information Act requests.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Oh I forgot I signed up for Ashley Madison on
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: our couple's email address, Like, you know, it's the same shit.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I'm curious how that Freedom of Information Act request worked.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Did someone just send a request and go, hey, look
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: into every building and see if there's any mk ultra
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: stuff or did someone find it at one point and
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: was just like, oh, I hope no one finds out
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: we got this.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Maybe some number cruncher was like, uh, boss, you know,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and then I don't know, maybe there's just a couple
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: good hearted bureaucrats who're like, well, yeah, I mean, we
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: should give this back to the people. We Yeah, you know.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: Boss was probably like women don't ask questions.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: She was like, all right, freedom of Information Act request
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: and here we are.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: So that's basically how this was confirmed. But before that,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: there had been the Church Committee. In December nineteen seventy four,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: The New York Times alleged that the CIA had conducted
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: illegal domestic activities, including experiments on US citizens, during the sixties.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: So this first comes out as.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: A New York Times story in nineteen seventy four. Yeah,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: and it reminds me of now The New York Times
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: just did this story about the government pumping all this
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: money into UFO research, like including videos of what the
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: government is like, and the government's like, hey, we don't
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: know either, and no one cared. Like it wasn't like
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: when this came out in the seventies, people are like what,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: like it was huge news, and now it's just there's
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: so much like yeah, but there's also this gift of
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: a cat trying to put on a tie, you know,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: and it's just Yeah, there's I think among I think
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: the majority of people in this country, there's just this
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: sense that like when it comes to aliens or conspiracies
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: or anything like that, their mind is never gonna be changed. Yeah,
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: it's gonna have to be an alien comes and sits
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: in front of you, and even then they're gonna be like,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: oh whatever, it's just an animal that is not native
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: to this area, is.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and like it's a swamp guess to the
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: form of a man that raped you.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: And it just feels like there's been a shift in
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: this country somehow toward really trusting the government.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Insane because we have so much evidence to the contrary.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah that says we shouldn't trust the government.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, like I find it. I find myself
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: struggling to give a shit sometimes, you know, I don't
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: know what it is about our culture and the way
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: we consume information in news that has goddness to this place.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Is it? Is it fucking zoloft in the water supply
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: making everybody passive? I don't know, Or have we all
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: just given up?
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: We all just like, yeah, whatever, the government's gonna win,
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: no matter what.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're just like I don't know, Yeah,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: we could all just form a militia, but they'd probably
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: stop us from buying stuff and smoke us out, and
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: just like, what the fuck are we gonna do? Like, who,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: what do we do? What is there to be done? Yeah,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: it's all it's like already like some nineteen eighty four
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: ass shit. I mean, they just you know, they're chill
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: with you doing a podcast as long as you don't
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: get too any listeners.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the thing, And that's how a lot
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: of authoritarian governments work.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: It's like, what if they're just like, yeah, Winston Smith,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: start a radio show or or write a book. We
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: don't care, no one's gonna read it. Yeah. The two
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: thousand people are gonna like it. Everybody, you know, like
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: who cares?
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's kind of how like there's never i
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: mean in rare cases, but there's never really a dictator
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: or an authoritarian regime in the modern age.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: That just shuts down everything.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like they let minor shit get the Like I
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: feel like we've said it before, like this network is
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: in a really nice pocket where we're just kind of
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: big enough that we can make a little money.
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: But always you know, we got a nice studio, we
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: got the people send us fun trinkets and all that,
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: and it's great.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the minute this blows up, I'm gonna be
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: like fuck, yeah, we're all gonna get murdered.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Now. Well, it's just like it's like a it's like
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: a bad guy and like a like a cartoon that's
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: so strong. It's just like, yeah, go ahead and punch me.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: It's not going to do anything. Yeah. So yeah, we're
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: taking swings, but I mean unscathed. Yeah you know, so
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: yeah that's mk ultra.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: After after that New York Times article, the Church Committee convenes,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: and also the Rockefeller Committee, which was the president. There
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: were Congress and the Executive branch. Both launched their own
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: committees to look into CIA activities. And what's crazy is
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: at one point, Gerald Ford issues an executive order that says,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: all right, no, uh no using drugs on humans during
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: experiments without their knowledge, and you would think that would
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: be the end of it, but then at some point
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Reagan had to update it and go, hey, no human
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: experiments at all, which leads me to believe the CIA
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: was just like, no drugs, got cool.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: We just went out with like micro beatles.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's just like sound waves and ship Yeah,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: oh for sure, for sure.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: They're just like, oh, I'm not touching you.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not touching.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: You, you know, like, and even Reagan had to step
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: there to be like, it's.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Not a drug. He's technically a poison. Okay, that's not
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: drugs are supposed to affect you positively.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: This is yeah, but please tell me more about how
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: this definitely stopped in seventy three.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: No, probably not, but that's mk ultra.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: And next week we're going to dive into one specific
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: incident from MK ULTRA, which is the death of Frank
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Olsen Ash covered on the documentary Wormwood.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe you want to watch Wormwood first.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're definitely going to spoil them proud of
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: it for you.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: You got a whole week, guys.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're we're gonna spoil that for you on next
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: week's episode, so you better get it watched.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Uh, he dies at the end. We'll spoil that part
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: for you right now. You can tell actually he dies
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: about a quarter of the way. Yeah.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can tell us too early in the morning,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: because you better get it watched.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: It is, get it doing all right?
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: What do we have to.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: Plug or do you have to get out of here?
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: I know you're in a hurry.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta bail pretty quick. But yeah, we're
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: going on tour all over the rest belt in the
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: East Coast, Chicago, fucking Milwaukee, UH, Philly, Pittsburgh, d C, Detroit,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: New York City, uh all in the month of April.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Take us on me boys, plug guess dot com. If
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: the ticket link isn't up yet because we're waiting on
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: the downb venue to put it on the website. Get
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: on the email list. You be the first to know,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and ditto for me and chat Wilde. In May, we're
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: gonna go out and do some tour. Yeah, tour and
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: some tur and some turn and uh turing tests.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: I have dates up for that soon. I know we're
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: starting in beautiful Iowa.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Ooh Des Moines.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: No, uh fuck, where are we.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: We're close to a small town. We're doing a really
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: small town. Okay, but it's uh, it's gonna be fun
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: because I know.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: There's an Unpops mean boys go that tweets us up
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: from out on Des Moines. Yeah.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: We did Iowa City where Portugal Man's tour bus just
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: caught on fire. Oh shout out to the I'm glad
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: they were safe.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we did Iowa City and it was fun.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Okay. I fucking liked those little towns, man.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was. We were on the campus of that's
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: University of Iowa. I believe it is in Iowa City. Yeah,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: we were on campus.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: There. Great record stores I bought.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: I bought a copy of Only Built for Cuban Links
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: on purple translucent vinyl. Nice in Iowa. That's what I
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: do when I tour. I just go to record stores.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, record those little ones are fucking great.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: There's one up in a baker's field that had the
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: best shit. I was in there one time.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I was looking at just this seven inch from like
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: a shitty punk band, and they had like the members
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: all had punk names, and one of the guys are
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: the same punk name I had when I was fourteen,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: which was vast deference, which a great punk rock name.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: It was pretty goddamn it. Someone who Baker's Field had
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: the same idea. It wasn't that good.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: All right, Let's get the funk out of here. Connor
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: say goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, everybody.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: We love it.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: People of the Gympanics has to be destroyed.