Latest / Own It with Angie Hicks / Your Outdoor Space Shouldn’t be Last with Sara Bendrick.

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Your Outdoor Space Shouldn’t be Last with Sara Bendrick. · Own It with Angie Hicks

• 0:00
  - Your kitchen reno usually steals all the budget.
• 0:03
  And your dream bathroom,
• 0:05
  it gets all the love on your Pinterest board.
• 0:07
  But the first thing people see
• 0:08
  when they pull up to your house,
• 0:10
  is neither one of those things.
• 0:12
  My guest today thinks that your yard
• 0:14
  should get the same amount of planning
• 0:16
  as any room inside your house.
• 0:18
  And she's going to tell you why
• 0:20
  you keep running out of money before you ever get there.
• 0:23
  Sara Bendrick is a landscape designer,
• 0:26
  contractor, and TV host.
• 0:29
  She spent her career helping homeowners determine
• 0:31
  what an outdoor space actually costs,
• 0:34
  what it actually takes to design one,
• 0:36
  and how to make it work for the life you're actually living.
• 0:39
  Welcome back to "Own It."
• 0:40
  I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie.
• 0:43
  And on this show, we talk about what it really takes
• 0:45
  to own your home without it owning you.
• 0:48
  In today's episode, why your yard budget keeps running out,
• 0:52
  what you're paying for that you'll never see,
• 0:54
  and the one question Sara asks every client
• 0:57
  before a single plant goes in the ground.
• 1:00
  Here's my conversation with Sara Bendrick.
• 1:03
  Hey Sara, how are you?
• 1:05
  - Hey, I'm good. I'm so glad to be here with you.
• 1:07
  - I'm very excited about this.
• 1:09
  I have to admit that when asked what my hobbies are,
• 1:13
  oftentimes kind of working in my yard
• 1:17
  and gardening top the list, but I am all amateur.
• 1:22
  So I am sure I will have lots of questions for you.
• 1:25
  My pride and joy right now is growing sunflowers.
• 1:31
  I have a contest with some friends of mine.
• 1:33
  We have a sunflower contest and I won last year,
• 1:38
  so fingers crossed.
• 1:39
  - It's amazing.
• 1:41
  - Fingers crossed.
• 1:42
  I produced some good sunflowers this year.
• 1:44
  - I'm a little jealous. I absolutely love sunflowers.
• 1:46
  And they are like an easy grow for most people.
• 1:49
  I love telling kids if they want to grow something,
• 1:51
  start with sunflowers.
• 1:52
  - So Sara, you studied landscape architecture,
• 1:54
  but what got you into the field and you were like,
• 1:57
  "I'm going to own it."
• 1:59
  - So landscape architecture in particular is a super cool
• 2:02
  profession where you can go in so many different categories.
• 2:05
  In fact, the licensure test is one of the most failed
• 2:09
  after the law exam because it is such a wide variety
• 2:12
  of things to know.
• 2:13
  So for me, I got started in residential
• 2:16
  and I was like, "I like this a lot."
• 2:18
  Like, It's very doable.
• 2:21
  You get to change the way people live in their homes.
• 2:24
  Like, it's very rewarding.
• 2:25
  So for me, I decided not to go down
• 2:28
  the landscape architecture route
• 2:30
  even though that's what my degree is in.
• 2:31
  And I went down the contracting route
• 2:33
  and now I can design build together,
• 2:35
  which is really rewarding.
• 2:38
  - Yeah, and so when you say design build, just for folks
• 2:41
  that may not be in the industry,
• 2:43
  that's just you're a landscaper.
• 2:45
  - Yes. Yeah, exactly.
• 2:46
  So design build typically means that you're going to design
• 2:50
  everything from outdoor living, plants, lawns,
• 2:54
  irrigation, drainage, all of those things
• 2:56
  is what a design build landscape contractor will tackle.
• 2:59
  - So you view your yard as an investment, you know.
• 3:03
  Sometimes people view it as the thing
• 3:06
  I have to mow once a week (laughs).
• 3:10
  But I lean toward you on this one
• 3:12
  because I do think it is your first impression of your home.
• 3:17
  So homeowners budget for kitchens, bathrooms,
• 3:20
  probably dream about.
• 3:21
  I'm like, "Oh, if I only had this kitchen."
• 3:23
  And then they get to the yard and realize
• 3:25
  they're out of money.
• 3:27
  Why does that keep happening?
• 3:29
  - Yeah, it happens a lot in our profession
• 3:31
  because people always start with the home.
• 3:33
  That's their primary focus.
• 3:34
  They want to have all those living spaces
• 3:36
  exactly how they want.
• 3:38
  We've actually partnered with the home builder locally,
• 3:41
  and this has been so fruitful for us
• 3:43
  because they also realize we create these beautiful houses
• 3:46
  and we can't photograph them when they're done
• 3:48
  because the clients have no money left for their landscape
• 3:51
  and the house doesn't look good if the landscape isn't done.
• 3:54
  So they bring us on when they start their process as well
• 3:57
  and we give them ballparks like, "Hey, we expect you
• 4:00
  to spend about this much based on the square footage
• 4:02
  and what you're asking for."
• 4:03
  So they can start making those decisions.
• 4:05
  It's not a later thing.
• 4:06
  It's like, "I have some tangible things I can actually use
• 4:09
  to decide how I want to live."
• 4:11
  And most people who renovate their exterior spaces
• 4:14
  end up using the space significantly more
• 4:17
  and just have better quality time in those outdoor spaces.
• 4:20
  And on top of that, a lot of realtors will get behind it
• 4:22
  and say almost 100% of what you invest
• 4:25
  in your outdoor spaces, if you maintain it,
• 4:26
  you're going to get that back if you decide to sell.
• 4:29
  - Yeah. It is one of the top ROI things. That is for sure.
• 4:33
  - It is. Yeah. So that's in our benefit.
• 4:36
  So part of it's just an education
• 4:37
  and if you've never done a landscape renovation,
• 4:39
  I got five, 10 grand, you're like,
• 4:41
  "Great, that will cover drainage and demo."
• 4:45
  (Sara laughs)
• 4:47
  So it's just modern, that's how it is.
• 4:50
  - Which I think is an interesting point.
• 4:52
  So, you know, I think when we think about
• 4:54
  like doing a kitchen remodel,
• 4:56
  we think about like, "Hey, it's going to cost
• 4:58
  X thousand dollars."
• 5:01
  You know, but landscaping, I've always thought about
• 5:04
  as something that can be done in phases,
• 5:06
  unlike other projects potentially.
• 5:08
  Is that something that's very common
• 5:09
  and well understood by homeowners
• 5:11
  or is that something that you're bringing to the table?
• 5:13
  - I would say at least half of our clients
• 5:16
  do some sort of phasing.
• 5:17
  Well, the nice thing about landscaping for me
• 5:19
  as a professional is the phases never really end.
• 5:22
  There's always maintenance (chuckles).
• 5:23
  But when it comes to actually installing and planning
• 5:26
  out your yard,
• 5:27
  I think the design process should be the most important
• 5:31
  thing that you spend time on because from there
• 5:32
  you can decide how many phases
• 5:34
  you might want to do to tackle that yard
• 5:36
  to make it better for the budget.
• 5:38
  Some people do it all in one go
• 5:39
  because they just want everything done
• 5:41
  and they might have the resources,
• 5:42
  but many people decide to phase it
• 5:44
  into a hardscape and softscape.
• 5:46
  When I say hardscape, I mean their patios, their pergolas,
• 5:50
  anything that's built in, get that done
• 5:51
  and then do the softscape later.
• 5:54
  But the most important thing that the design
• 5:56
  really helps dictate is where all your drainage,
• 5:59
  where all your irrigation lines need to go,
• 6:01
  do we need to run a gas line?
• 6:02
  All those things need to be thought out before
• 6:04
  say that concrete patio goes in.
• 6:06
  - You said half of what you pay in a yard renovation
• 6:09
  you never see.
• 6:10
  - It's drainage, it's irrigation, it's demo.
• 6:13
  - And I'm probably being a little dramatic.
• 6:14
  It's probably not half, but it's a lot of money
• 6:17
  that people spend that they're like,
• 6:18
  "What did I actually get from this?
• 6:20
  I don't see the added benefit at the end."
• 6:24
  But a lot of that is...
• 6:26
  Like, for example, many people have fire pits
• 6:29
  and you can have a wood fire pit and that's fine.
• 6:31
  Actually in California you can't,
• 6:32
  but in most of the areas
• 6:34
  that's like the most low maintenance way to have fire.
• 6:37
  And I always tell my clients,
• 6:38
  if you can afford to have your gas run out to your fire pit,
• 6:41
  you're going to use it more.
• 6:42
  It's going to be lower maintenance
• 6:43
  and you're going to enjoy the space more.
• 6:45
  - Right.
• 6:46
  - But that's going to cost you $2,500 more
• 6:48
  to trench a two-foot hole from your gas meter to there.
• 6:53
  It's those conversations.
• 6:54
  But then there's things you can't get around
• 6:55
  like the drainage and the irrigation,
• 6:57
  all those need to be trenched.
• 6:58
  Sometimes demolition, there's unexpected things.
• 7:03
  It's happened more than a few times where we pull up a patio
• 7:05
  and we're like, "Oh, guess what?
• 7:06
  They poured it on top of another patio," so.
• 7:10
  (Sara laughs)
• 7:11
  - Was it just pavers?
• 7:12
  It's pavers and concrete.
• 7:13
  - There's been a few yards, not very often
• 7:14
  where it's been like a $20,000 demo because the access,
• 7:19
  the amount of concrete and hard things
• 7:21
  and difficult things to pull out.
• 7:23
  That's not average. California prices,
• 7:26
  it could be two to 3,000, five to 7,000 usually
• 7:30
  is what we're seeing.
• 7:31
  It's not the fun money to spend.
• 7:33
  Demo is actually fun to see though because it's like a great
• 7:35
  before and after, but then after that it's like,
• 7:37
  oh, how many more pipes are we going to put in the ground?
• 7:39
  That's kind of boring (laughs).
• 7:42
  - All right, so while we're on demo, let's talk homeowners
• 7:45
  that change their minds.
• 7:47
  - Oh yeah (laughs).
• 7:49
  - That never happens, right?
• 7:50
  - No.
• 7:51
  - Maybe I'm one of those people right now.
• 7:53
  So let's use the one we saw.
• 7:55
  So during COVID, everyone instantly wanted a swimming pool
• 8:01
  and we're like, "That's a big project.
• 8:02
  You're not going to get a swimming pool next month."
• 8:05
  You know, so now all of us have swimming pools.
• 8:09
  Maybe I have swimming pool remorse (laughs)
• 8:11
  (Sara laughs)
• 8:13
  Am I crazy to dream that I should pull the swimming pool out
• 8:18
  or should I just keep going with it, you know?
• 8:20
  It's like the old adage, a swimming pool is,
• 8:23
  the cost is not the cost of putting it in,
• 8:26
  it's the cost of maintaining it over time.
• 8:28
  - Since it's a new pool, you're not going to have
• 8:30
  that extreme maintenance for a long time.
• 8:33
  But if it is a forever home,
• 8:34
  then maybe you think about it a little differently.
• 8:36
  I'd probably let it go until it needs a major renovation.
• 8:39
  We often get people asking for hot tubs
• 8:42
  and it's very few of them that actually use it regularly.
• 8:45
  So I feel like it's one of those items
• 8:47
  that I sometimes talk people out of.
• 8:49
  I'm like, "Yeah, sounds great on paper, but for the cost
• 8:52
  and actually using it," if you interview a bunch of people
• 8:56
  after they get their landscape renovations,
• 8:59
  I would say the majority don't use it regularly.
• 9:01
  - Yeah. It seemed like a good idea.
• 9:02
  You're like, "Yes, I can." But it's one of those like,
• 9:05
  "I can, so therefore I'll do it tomorrow."
• 9:07
  - And that's why it's important to work with a designer
• 9:09
  that's willing to ask you hard questions (laughs).
• 9:12
  - So what is the most popular feature
• 9:14
  when you're thinking about kind of more the hardscape stuff
• 9:17
  that people are putting in these days?
• 9:19
  What is the latest?
• 9:20
  - Outdoor kitchens.
• 9:21
  And there's a lot of prefab kits that are great.
• 9:24
  Most people are going custom built,
• 9:25
  and I think that's probably driven by the contractors
• 9:28
  because they like to build what they know how to build.
• 9:30
  But there's great prefabs out there
• 9:32
  that could save you some money.
• 9:33
  Some of them are more expensive too, depending on the brand.
• 9:37
  And then of course you always have the go to Costco
• 9:40
  and get a rollaway barbecue,
• 9:42
  but people are wanting the built-ins,
• 9:45
  and I do think they really help with the ROI.
• 9:47
  I do think they help people spend more time outside
• 9:49
  and eat outside, and I think that's a general benefit
• 9:51
  to most people, so I'm all for it.
• 9:53
  - Yeah. I mean, it was interesting.
• 9:56
  We just did our international homeowners survey
• 9:58
  and one thing that was universal for all the countries
• 10:03
  was that they loved their outdoor space.
• 10:06
  - Yeah. And I totally believe that.
• 10:09
  I will say there's still, from a professional standpoint,
• 10:12
  sometimes a disconnect between what they want
• 10:16
  and what they think it costs (laughs).
• 10:18
  Yeah. Which is probably true for many professions, so.
• 10:23
  - Can go buy a grill for a thousand bucks.
• 10:24
  You mean I can't have a outdoor kitchen for 1,500?
• 10:28
  - Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:29
  So part of it is the education point,
• 10:32
  but also I think it's super helpful to talk budget
• 10:35
  with clients early on.
• 10:36
  If they're not comfortable with it, that's fine.
• 10:40
  But I think it's helpful to know,
• 10:43
  like are we dealing with a $20,000 budget
• 10:46
  because that's a very different landscape design
• 10:48
  than a 50 or $100,000.
• 10:51
  - Yeah. 20, you're not getting
• 10:52
  any hardscape probably I'm guessing.
• 10:54
  - And most people who do it right
• 10:56
  have talked to a few people
• 10:57
  and they are at least in the right ballpark
• 10:58
  and then you can just start moving.
• 11:01
  So it's that initial kind of exposing yourself.
• 11:04
  That's where I think the most education probably needs to go
• 11:08
  to happen, I guess.
• 11:10
  - So what are you finding as far as materials
• 11:12
  in the hardscape space?
• 11:13
  Like, what are people using?
• 11:15
  Concrete of some sort, fancy patio?
• 11:18
  Are they doing pavers?
• 11:22
  Are they doing decks? What are you seeing most right now?
• 11:25
  - Concrete is usually one of the more affordable ways
• 11:28
  to achieve a clean new look,
• 11:29
  so I don't think they'll ever go out of fashion.
• 11:31
  I do think the stamped concrete is not nearly as popular
• 11:35
  as it used to be.
• 11:36
  Concrete with a TOP-CAST finish,
• 11:38
  which is that sanding finish you put an acid on it
• 11:41
  is very popular.
• 11:42
  It's a very clean look.
• 11:43
  Pavers will never go out of style
• 11:44
  because it's just functionally.
• 11:46
  There's nothing that beats it.
• 11:47
  Like, if there's movement from a tree root,
• 11:49
  you just pick them up, cut the tree root out,
• 11:51
  put them back, and it's the longest lasting.
• 11:53
  It costs more, but I think it's, yes, it's a great patio.
• 11:56
  Porcelain is becoming more and more popular.
• 11:59
  - Oh, Interesting.
• 12:00
  I would think that would be slippery.
• 12:01
  - So they make porcelain specifically for outdoor spaces.
• 12:06
  The Belgard brand has a good one.
• 12:07
  There's hardscapes.com has some more affordable ones too.
• 12:11
  I mean, there's a lot of different brands out there
• 12:13
  creating these porcelain pavers or slabs
• 12:17
  that you can use in the outdoor space.
• 12:18
  Some of them look like natural stones, some of them don't.
• 12:21
  It just depends on the intention,
• 12:22
  but they have a gritty finish,
• 12:24
  something that they could be put around a pool.
• 12:27
  But again, it's very expensive
• 12:28
  because you could dry set some of them
• 12:31
  if they're thick enough,
• 12:33
  but most people are pouring concrete
• 12:34
  and thin setting them on.
• 12:36
  So it's a lot of work to achieve that look.
• 12:39
  - So you hosted "I Hate My Yard,"
• 12:41
  and you've been honest that the budgets on TV
• 12:44
  aren't the full picture.
• 12:45
  What do homeowners need to actually budget
• 12:47
  for a yard renovation right now?
• 12:49
  - With "I Hate My Yard" in particular,
• 12:51
  we had about a $20,000 budget
• 12:53
  and we would do full renovations in an outdoor space
• 12:56
  and we would do it for that amount.
• 12:58
  Sometimes the homeowners would kick in five grand,
• 13:00
  so maybe our budget was 25,000
• 13:02
  and we truly did the work for what we advertised it.
• 13:05
  But what's not really reality is the 12-hour days
• 13:09
  we were putting in,
• 13:10
  the production team behind that to make sure everything
• 13:12
  was done on a timely schedule and the contractors
• 13:15
  putting in those extra hours
• 13:16
  knowing that they're just going to work for two weeks
• 13:18
  for a set amount of time, that doesn't reflect real life.
• 13:21
  And then of course, we would occasionally get donations
• 13:24
  or sometimes sponsorships.
• 13:25
  So back in the day, I used to tell my clients,
• 13:27
  "Yeah, we did it for 20, 25,000.
• 13:30
  You need to add another 10, 15, or 20,
• 13:33
  to achieve the same thing to get that result."
• 13:35
  Nowadays, I would say before COVID,
• 13:39
  our average landscape renovation front and back
• 13:42
  was somewhere between 65,000 to 100,000.
• 13:45
  And I would say now that's more like 100 to 150,000
• 13:49
  for a front yard backyard renovation.
• 13:51
  These are California prices,
• 13:53
  so obviously our prices are a lot higher than other places
• 13:56
  in the country, but you can see
• 13:59
  that there'd been a significant increase.
• 14:01
  But the other thing I would like to attribute that to,
• 14:05
  is people also have higher expectations of what they want
• 14:09
  and what they expect for their outdoor living spaces.
• 14:11
  - Okay, so you gave California prices.
• 14:13
  So here in Indiana, I assume I can cut those prices in half.
• 14:18
  (Sara laughs)
• 14:19
  - Yes, probably.
• 14:20
  Although I will say fairly regularly,
• 14:24
  I'm seeing $250,000 landscape renovations
• 14:27
  here in Southern California.
• 14:28
  It is a little wild to be talking about those prices,
• 14:30
  but that's the cost of labor, it's the cost of material,
• 14:33
  it's the cost of everything.
• 14:35
  - How do you go to someone and say like,
• 14:37
  "Hey, I know you want a beautiful backyard
• 14:40
  and I understand this is your budget.
• 14:42
  These are the elements I would include
• 14:43
  and I think you'll be happy."
• 14:45
  - Yeah, so the way we set up my business in particular
• 14:48
  is we have a few different checkpoints
• 14:50
  of buying in on our services.
• 14:52
  And the first is a paid consultation where we go out there
• 14:55
  and we just talk to them about things.
• 14:56
  This can be great for DIYers who don't intend on hiring us
• 14:59
  for other services, but they're like,
• 15:00
  "Hey, can I run some ideas by you?"
• 15:03
  Yeah. Give me my opinion and help me with some resources.
• 15:06
  I don't have the budget to pay you, but, you know.
• 15:09
  And I'm happy to do that because we're compensated
• 15:11
  for our time to go out there and they get the value
• 15:14
  that they needed out of that.
• 15:15
  And then after that, we give them a design proposal.
• 15:19
  And so that's the next phase.
• 15:20
  So I recommend if you can afford it,
• 15:22
  whether you're DIY or not, to do a design.
• 15:25
  And then that design can really help inform the space.
• 15:28
  So we like to put together the concepts and then
• 15:32
  if we ballpark like, "Ooh, we think we're going to be
• 15:35
  kind of out of your budget," we can value engineer.
• 15:37
  Hey, I know we want to do concrete
• 15:39
  for that secondary patio, but let's make it gravel
• 15:41
  and that's going to cut the cost down significantly
• 15:43
  or phase it out.
• 15:45
  So that allows us to have conversations
• 15:47
  during the design phase that can kind of help guide that,
• 15:51
  because the last thing we want to do
• 15:52
  is to scare people away with cost.
• 15:53
  And the cool thing about landscaping too, of course,
• 15:55
  like, I want people to hire me, I can do it for them,
• 15:58
  but there is an aspect that is DIY as well.
• 16:00
  So if you don't have that $50,000 budget
• 16:03
  or $100,000 budget for that dream yard,
• 16:06
  there are a lot of things
• 16:06
  that you can tackle yourself as well.
• 16:09
  - I would love to get your opinion on how a homeowner
• 16:12
  should think about that.
• 16:13
  They paid for a design and they're like, "I can tackle
• 16:16
  these three things, but I certainly can't lay a paver
• 16:19
  patio or whatever it is."
• 16:21
  Like, how do you balance that and help guide a homeowner?
• 16:25
  - Well, here's a tip on how to approach it
• 16:26
  because a lot of contractors are not going to like
• 16:28
  that relationship where it's like,
• 16:29
  "Hey, I'm going to do this, you do that."
• 16:31
  So you might scare some people away.
• 16:33
  So first of all, take the quote from the contractor
• 16:37
  and be honest and be like, oh, I might not have enough
• 16:39
  budget to do all of this and ask their suggestions.
• 16:41
  Are there any items here
• 16:44
  that I might be able to do on my own?
• 16:46
  In my experience,
• 16:48
  demo doesn't need a lot of skilled labor typically.
• 16:51
  That's often something that you might be able to do
• 16:54
  a little cheaper, and it doesn't interfere with the process
• 16:56
  because then the contractor can pick up from there and go.
• 16:58
  That's not going to affect their warranty
• 17:00
  because they still redo the grades and stuff like that.
• 17:03
  So where it gets a little difficult with contractors
• 17:05
  is they're expected to warranty the work.
• 17:07
  So if you're like, "Hey, I'm going to dig all the irrigation
• 17:09
  and put in the pipes and you connect from here.
• 17:11
  Well, if you're going to call me six months
• 17:14
  after the project and you're like, it's leaking,
• 17:16
  you're still going to hold me accountable."
• 17:18
  So there's some things that don't make any sense
• 17:22
  to collaborate on,
• 17:23
  but some things if they're an isolated thing
• 17:25
  that can be done separately,
• 17:28
  then I think those are good items to pick up
• 17:29
  and usually less demo or sometimes lighting for landscaping
• 17:34
  or mulching or putting rock down.
• 17:37
  So it's usually the beginning things or the end things.
• 17:39
  The middle things, it gets a little too hard
• 17:41
  and the contractors might walk if it feels too convoluted.
• 17:45
  - I love this part, you always start by asking clients
• 17:48
  how they actually use their space.
• 17:50
  Why does it have to come before anything about the design?
• 17:53
  What are you looking for there?
• 17:54
  - Everybody is different and we all interpret things
• 17:57
  differently as well.
• 17:58
  And that's probably one of the biggest things to learn
• 18:00
  as a designer is all the time have people say,
• 18:03
  I want a native garden. I want native this and that.
• 18:06
  And then I'm like, based on my experience, you don't,
• 18:09
  but (laughs) let me show you what that looks like,
• 18:13
  but let's do a combination
• 18:15
  because you need to read between the lines a little bit.
• 18:18
  They're like, "Yeah, I want a native thing,"
• 18:19
  but then they list off 10 plants
• 18:20
  that aren't native and you're like.
• 18:22
  - But I love hydrangeas
• 18:24
  and they don't grow in Southern California, right?
• 18:26
  Or whatever.
• 18:27
  - Yeah, so it's very important
• 18:29
  to have a discussion and get a feel.
• 18:31
  And I love it when they can provide me with photos.
• 18:33
  And now people are starting to use AI
• 18:35
  and they're taking their own photos
• 18:36
  and being like, "Hey, this is what AI put together."
• 18:37
  I'm like, "That's great inspiration.
• 18:40
  Now let's talk about reality."
• 18:42
  But it is helpful to inform how you tackle the space
• 18:49
  and what's normal to them.
• 18:49
  - How do you handle the conversation,
• 18:51
  because you brought it up,
• 18:52
  is, you know, the maintenance of your landscaping.
• 18:55
  There's a bit of a kind of like, "Hey, how much effort
• 18:57
  do you want to put into this or how much money
• 18:59
  do you want to put into maintaining this?"
• 19:02
  So I'm just curious how you handle that conversation.
• 19:05
  - Yes, it's a very interesting conversation.
• 19:08
  Most people, the majority of our clients are asking
• 19:11
  for low maintenance and low water.
• 19:13
  That is the biggest driving factor oftentimes
• 19:15
  with doing the renovations.
• 19:17
  So that means increased patio spaces,
• 19:19
  increase low maintenance areas.
• 19:21
  And then it's our job to tell them
• 19:23
  that you don't want to cover your yard and concrete.
• 19:26
  That's not going to help with ROI.
• 19:28
  There'll be way less maintenance.
• 19:29
  - I'll be honest, Sara, I will be 100% honest.
• 19:31
  The very first house we lived in,
• 19:32
  we ended up converting at least two thirds of the backyard
• 19:36
  into mulch, I would also not recommend that.
• 19:39
  It's not a great look (laughs)
• 19:40
  (Sara laughs)
• 19:42
  - Yes, so I mean, there's the understanding
• 19:45
  of lifestyle too, right?
• 19:46
  So if it's like a mom with four kids,
• 19:48
  that might drive you a little bit different
• 19:50
  than a retired couple who's like, I actually like to garden.
• 19:54
  So their levels and expectations of maintenance
• 19:56
  are going to be different too.
• 19:58
  But I think the important thing is, is that everything
• 20:02
  in the landscape will always change
• 20:04
  and that I try to encourage people
• 20:06
  instead of worrying about it on a monthly basis,
• 20:09
  think about it two times a year.
• 20:10
  Spend two weekends of the year going out there
• 20:12
  and doing a deep clean, getting on top of things.
• 20:14
  So it doesn't feel like, oh, every month
• 20:17
  I gotta go do this or that.
• 20:19
  With any new established landscape,
• 20:21
  you're going to have more weeds initially.
• 20:22
  So the first few months after I'm like,
• 20:24
  stay on top of it, get the weeds,
• 20:26
  don't let them spread seeds if they do come.
• 20:28
  After that, once you're into a set landscape,
• 20:31
  like it's established itself,
• 20:33
  do deep cleans a few times a year.
• 20:35
  And you can do that yourself or you could hire somebody
• 20:37
  for a day or two just to cut everything back, clean it up,
• 20:41
  redo the mulch, check the irrigation lines.
• 20:43
  I would say that should be the baseline,
• 20:45
  but most people think about it
• 20:47
  like I need to do something every month.
• 20:48
  And I think that's daunting to them.
• 20:50
  - Yeah, so here I am, I'm in my 50s now
• 20:54
  and I look at my landscaping and I'm kind of like,
• 20:57
  we're going to reduce the size of this flower bed.
• 21:00
  We're going to plant grass.
• 21:01
  We're going to reduce the size of this one.
• 21:05
  I mean, is this a normal kind of cycle people go through
• 21:07
  because I'm just like,
• 21:08
  I'm tired of the upkeep sometimes.
• 21:11
  - Sure, yeah and I think some of it
• 21:14
  is doing it systematically and just it's more when people
• 21:18
  skip the regular maintenance
• 21:20
  that it becomes really unmanageable.
• 21:22
  So that's one.
• 21:23
  But also if it's not bringing you joy,
• 21:24
  then maybe that wasn't the best layout for you to do that.
• 21:28
  But yes, it depends on the family.
• 21:31
  I think the people who want the least amount of maintenance
• 21:34
  that I've run into over my career
• 21:35
  are the parents with young kids.
• 21:38
  - Yeah.
• 21:39
  - They're the ones who feel the most overwhelmed.
• 21:41
  - If we can get the yard mowed, we're doing well.
• 21:43
  - Yeah, yeah.
• 21:44
  And then you mentioned like, oh, let's add more grass.
• 21:46
  And this is kind of controversial out in California
• 21:49
  because everyone's like, take out the grass.
• 21:50
  We don't have water, and that's true to an extent,
• 21:53
  but there's nothing quite like grass
• 21:55
  when it comes to open space that is versatile for kids,
• 21:59
  dogs and play.
• 22:01
  There are wonderful alternatives,
• 22:03
  but that doesn't mean it fits everybody's need.
• 22:06
  So I am not anti-grass. Use it with intention.
• 22:08
  Like, don't put it in your parkway strip,
• 22:10
  but if it's going to create a bigger space for you
• 22:13
  to throw a ball with your grandkid
• 22:15
  and, you know, mowing it is a lot more manageable
• 22:19
  to somebody or to hire that out
• 22:21
  than having giant garden beds,
• 22:23
  then do what makes sense for you.
• 22:25
  - Are there any ground covers that you're actually finding
• 22:27
  as alternatives that thrive in just a drier climate?
• 22:31
  - Yes. So there are...
• 22:33
  And there's been tons of people researching this.
• 22:35
  There are certain types of grasses in particular
• 22:37
  that are more drought tolerant.
• 22:39
  So instead of a fescue, you could use like
• 22:41
  a St. Augustine or a Bermuda,
• 22:43
  that's going to use significantly less water.
• 22:45
  And then also people are coming up
• 22:46
  with different hybrids depending on what region you live in
• 22:49
  to do that.
• 22:50
  But using other plants in particular,
• 22:52
  we use this plant called Ruschia a lot,
• 22:55
  and it's like a tiny little succulent
• 22:57
  that covers the ground pretty evenly.
• 22:59
  It takes significantly less water,
• 23:01
  so you get that green look.
• 23:02
  You can walk on it if you want,
• 23:04
  but you're not going to play football on it.
• 23:06
  And your grandkids are probably,
• 23:08
  or your kids or your toddlers, they'll walk on it,
• 23:11
  but it's not comfortable like grass.
• 23:14
  And there's softer varieties, but my experience,
• 23:17
  a lot of the lawn alternatives don't take wear and tear
• 23:20
  the way a lawn does.
• 23:22
  And so I think there's appropriate uses
• 23:25
  for them in different settings.
• 23:26
  Oh, you just need a lawn to go from your house to your shed?
• 23:30
  Let's do that and we'll put a few stepping stones
• 23:32
  and we'll use this type of succulent
• 23:34
  or we'll use this ground cover
• 23:35
  and that will be wonderful.
• 23:36
  - Right, oh, I love the creativity in that.
• 23:40
  Because it is.
• 23:41
  I mean, it's always like, what's the next.
• 23:43
  I think some of what the latest trends
• 23:44
  are is super important.
• 23:45
  So I go and put, you know, my plants in, et cetera.
• 23:49
  And how long should I expect this to last? What's the cycle?
• 23:53
  Is this a seven year, 10 year, 20 year kind of cycle
• 23:57
  as you're thinking about these plants?
• 24:00
  - Well, if you're in California,
• 24:01
  it's every time a new homeowner buys a home (laughs).
• 24:04
  - I need a whole new one.
• 24:06
  - Honestly, that is a little disheartening sometimes
• 24:09
  as part of the industry is sometimes you're taking out
• 24:11
  very nice landscapes
• 24:12
  because somebody just has a different opinion
• 24:14
  on what nice is.
• 24:15
  So that's a separate idea altogether.
• 24:17
  But generally, yeah,
• 24:18
  20 years a landscape should absolutely last.
• 24:21
  Your hardscape should last, your pergola should last,
• 24:23
  your plantings should last,
• 24:24
  and that's depending on what kind of plants they are
• 24:27
  and what intention.
• 24:28
  So most of your trees and evergreens and shrubs, no problem.
• 24:31
  But some plants, especially plants that flower a lot,
• 24:35
  for example, like the purple plum tree,
• 24:37
  that's super, super popular,
• 24:38
  those don't really look good after 15 years.
• 24:41
  And the way I explain it to people
• 24:42
  is they've put so much effort and energy into blooming
• 24:46
  - And being beautiful.
• 24:47
  - Yeah, and being beautiful
• 24:48
  that they just putter out sooner (chuckles).
• 24:52
  So there's some trees that maybe don't have
• 24:54
  as much longevity, but you should minimally be expecting,
• 24:59
  you know, 15, 20 years out of your landscape.
• 25:02
  But that also is like you didn't ignore it for five years
• 25:04
  and let the weeds take it over.
• 25:06
  - Oh, okay. Fine.
• 25:07
  - But, you know, that happens is even with people
• 25:10
  who are like, "I want the lowest maintenance things
• 25:12
  put in concrete and then put in artificial turf,"
• 25:16
  and they think it's going to solve all their problems.
• 25:18
  I'm like, "Anything you ignore
• 25:19
  is just going to take a little bit longer.
• 25:21
  It's going to be taken over by nature."
• 25:22
  - Right.
• 25:23
  - Doesn't matter what you do, it just is a matter of time.
• 25:26
  So anything in the landscape needs some checking in on.
• 25:30
  - So, for a homeowner staring at their yard right now
• 25:35
  thinking, "I don't even know where to start.
• 25:38
  I'm overwhelmed."
• 25:39
  What's the first thing you need to think about?
• 25:41
  - The hard thing about landscaping is there's not four walls
• 25:44
  to build inside of usually.
• 25:47
  Oftentimes we have fences,
• 25:48
  but there's so many different spaces that we want to create.
• 25:51
  So comparing it to a house where you're like,
• 25:53
  "I have one bedroom to tackle in these four walls,"
• 25:56
  you're like, "I can pick a paint color. I can pick a bed."
• 25:58
  But in the landscape, you're like,
• 25:59
  "I have to put a pool or I have to put a kid's play area.
• 26:03
  I have to put all these things and where do I divide it?"
• 26:06
  So, if you have the time and not to rush into it,
• 26:09
  I think it's best for people to live in this space
• 26:10
  for a little bit.
• 26:11
  Notice where the sun patterns go.
• 26:13
  For example, we had somebody that worked on our property.
• 26:17
  We had a tall deck and it was 16 feet in the air,
• 26:19
  so it's not something that we were building.
• 26:21
  And the contractor suggested to my husband and I,
• 26:24
  hey, we should put a pergola there because it's hot.
• 26:27
  And I've been in the space long enough to be like,
• 26:29
  "It's shaded by 2:00 PM by the house.
• 26:33
  I'm not going to spend that money to do that."
• 26:35
  So knowing those things can save you money
• 26:36
  and also help you design intentionally.
• 26:40
  So be in the space, clear out the space,
• 26:44
  because you'll be able to envision it better.
• 26:46
  If you know that dead tree in the center of your yard
• 26:48
  is going anyways, get rid of it
• 26:50
  so you can start re-imagining the space
• 26:52
  and then talk to people, whether it's family or friends
• 26:55
  or you hire somebody, ask them what they think
• 26:57
  you should do with it too.
• 26:59
  - That's smart. I like it.
• 27:01
  Great. Well, this has been fun. I have enjoyed it.
• 27:03
  Thanks for humoring me on my sidetracked conversation.
• 27:08
  So I'm going to go home and rethink my yard today, I think.
• 27:12
  (Sara and Angie laugh)
• 27:13
  - Well, don't forget to enjoy it
• 27:14
  because that's a whole big piece of it.
• 27:16
  - It's exactly right.
• 27:17
  (Sara and Angie laugh)
• 27:19
  Here's what I'm taking away from my conversation with Sara.
• 27:22
  Budget for your yard from day one.
• 27:24
  Not after the kitchen's done and the bathrooms are finished
• 27:27
  and you're totally out of money.
• 27:28
  It's the first thing everyone sees,
• 27:30
  and who doesn't love being outside?
• 27:33
  Half of your budget, you're never going to actually see.
• 27:36
  The irrigation system, the drainage line, the gas line
• 27:39
  that runs to your fire pit.
• 27:41
  That's not wasted money
• 27:43
  because it's actually what makes everything work
• 27:45
  for the next 20 years.
• 27:47
  It's important to know where those gas lines need to go
• 27:49
  before you pour the concrete.
• 27:51
  Go ahead and spend the money on the design
• 27:53
  because it's going to save you twice that down the road.
• 27:56
  But here's the one that really stuck with me.
• 27:58
  Before you do anything, live in the space,
• 28:01
  go outside, determine what you like.
• 28:03
  Notice where the sun is at 5:00 PM.
• 28:06
  Pay attention to where your kids are playing.
• 28:08
  Figure out what part of the yard you're using
• 28:11
  and what part you're ignoring.
• 28:12
  Don't design over that, design from that.
• 28:16
  And that's it for "Own It" today."
• 28:17
  A big thanks to Sara for joining us.
• 28:19
  And thanks for listening.
• 28:21
  And if you enjoyed the show,
• 28:22
  please subscribe and share it with someone
• 28:24
  who might be just staring at their yard
• 28:27
  wondering what they should do.
• 28:28
  And as Sara said, live in it first. The design will follow.
• 28:33
  I'm Angie Hicks and I'll see you next time.