Latest / SEA of Startups / 🎙️ EP 11: The Trust Equation: Why Corporate VCs Aren't the Villain in Your Startup Story

Transcript

🎙️ EP 11: The Trust Equation: Why Corporate VCs Aren't the Villain in Your Startup Story · SEA of Startups

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are,
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Kimyo,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: sea of startups,
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: and this time we are not in a studio and not with the perfect acoustics,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: but smack in the middle of a room in Bangkok doing it live.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's exciting.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's what we call it, bootstrap podcasting.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Taking it to the next level with this whole podcasting journey.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is what it really looks like,
• 0:26
  stripping everything off and just really focusing on what we're
• 0:30
  trying to create
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: and what we're trying to put out there.
• 0:34
  And today I'm joined by someone who has navigated both
• 0:38
  corporate bureaucracy and founder chaos.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he survived it all and lived to tell the tale.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Pavel Wozellowski isn't just another strategist.
• 0:51
  He's one of the rare few who actually knows how innovation
• 0:55
  moves inside the machine
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: and how not to get eaten alive by it.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he survived.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: So in this exciting one,
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: this real and raw one,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: we talk zombie projects,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: founder fears,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: and how Southeast Asia is rewriting the corporate VC playbook.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not copying it.
• 1:18
  It's sharp,
• 1:19
  it's personal,
• 1:20
  and yes,
• 1:21
  that's just a bit of a spicy food in it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: It goes...
• 1:28
  So if you've ever wondered whether corporate venture capital is
• 1:33
  a golden bridge or
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: a gilded cage,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: this one's for you.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I am with Pavel Wyselowski.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: A good friend of mine and a seasoned corporate venture strategist.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Today, we are doing something different.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: We are live in Bangkok.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: First time doing it ever live.
• 2:05
  And so we're kind of in the middle of a room and we're doing
• 2:08
  bootstrap podcasting.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So what that means is everything is self-funded, self-set up.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're here.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you see us,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: just a heads up though,
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: when you're looking at us,
• 2:21
  we're actually speaking to each other because we're in the room
• 2:23
  number one,
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: number two.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to have a conversation to make it more personable.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: You see our eyes moving to each other just to talk,
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: to have a more authentic conversation like now,
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: See, check.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So Pavel Veselovsky,
• 2:37
  one of the most insightful people I know when it comes to
• 2:41
  understanding how big
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: corporates actually think about innovation.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, just some background story though.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Pavel and I first met at Slush Penang back in May this year.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And let me tell you,
• 2:54
  nothing beats bonding over Scottish Nyonya food while debating
• 2:59
  whether Thai banks
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: or Singaporean GLCs have better venture strategies.
• 3:04
  And you know what's funnier is because when someone who has
• 3:07
  been so kind enough to
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: say yes to do this post-striping podcast,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: you really can't say no.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: You just can't.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: But we're in for a good conversation that's coming up in a bit.
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  And one thing about this is that what made it even more fun was
• 3:24
  discovering that we
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: are both PwC alumni.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something about that shared experience of navigating corporate
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: innovation from the inside that just clicks.
• 3:35
  you know and we have you know more fascinating more fascinating
• 3:38
  conversations since
• 3:39
  then and i knew i had to get him on the show one thing that
• 3:43
  doesn't leave me is
• 3:45
  that phase when pavel was having the really spicy nyonya food
• 3:49
  and i can't erase
• 3:50
  that off my memory i don't know why he's not laughing but yeah
• 3:53
  kidding so anyway
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: let's get this started pavel how are you feeling today
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, everyone.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me here.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really excited to be here.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And Kim, welcome to Bangkok.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: So long time mercy since we met first time in Penang during SlashD.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was really incredible conference.
• 4:19
  And yeah,
• 4:21
  food is spicy,
• 4:22
  weather is hot in Bangkok and innovation is more hotter.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, discovering we were both BWC alumni was such a great moment.
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  SPEAKER_03: We had a lot of mutual things to discuss.
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  SPEAKER_03: And today I'm feeling really,
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  really energized to discuss and share my experience and ready
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  to dive to this
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  SPEAKER_03: wonderful topic.
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  SPEAKER_00: We are going to get into some spicy territory today.
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  And given that we're in Bangkok,
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  like what Pavel said,
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  it's going to get even spicier.
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  SPEAKER_00: And before we jump in, let me set the stage for our listeners.
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  SPEAKER_00: We are talking about corporate venture capital,
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  SPEAKER_00: essentially when big companies invest in startups.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this isn't some niche Silicon Valley trend anymore.
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  We are talking about nearly one third of all ventures backed
• 5:13
  company globally
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  SPEAKER_00: having at least one corporate investor.
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  SPEAKER_00: In C specifically,
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  SPEAKER_00: we are seeing an absolute explosion of CBC activity,
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  SPEAKER_00: especially here in Thailand,
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  SPEAKER_00: where we are recording today.
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  We've been on both sides of this equation,
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  inside the corporate machine at PwC,
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  and now
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  Do your own thing,
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  now advising startups on how to navigate these relationships.
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  So let's start with this fundamentals about what people are
• 5:40
  getting wrong.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: Could you please share maybe a question or a particular situation?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sorry.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so here's what fascinates me, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: I think this connects to software eating the ball.
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  Everyone assumes corporate VCs are just slow,
• 6:00
  bureaucratic versions of Sand Hill Road.
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  SPEAKER_00: But you've seen inside both walls.
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  SPEAKER_00: What's the real difference in how these entities actually think?
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  SPEAKER_03: So, I would say that when we are talking about general venture capital,
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  SPEAKER_03: founders just have to have only one yes.
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  So if they have a yes from a particular venture fund or an
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  angel investor,
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  SPEAKER_03: so that's a way to success.
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  SPEAKER_03: Vice versa,
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  SPEAKER_03: on the other hand,
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  SPEAKER_03: in a corporate world,
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  SPEAKER_03: in case of an internal innovator or external startup who want to
• 6:50
  agree on a pilot project,
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  some meaningful collaboration with the top managers.
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  SPEAKER_03: It's just one no from legal security or board member,
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  SPEAKER_03: just one no that could lead to one success.
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  SPEAKER_03: So one yes versus one no.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pretty much a 50-50 then.
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  So you're saying that,
• 7:16
  you know,
• 7:16
  you're talking about speed and disruption.
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  SPEAKER_00: Traditional VCs live in that world.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you're optimizing at 3, 10 times returns with a fun timeline.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's pure financial velocity.
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  And like you said,
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  you know,
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  you guys are playing a completely different game.
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  SPEAKER_00: And...
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  I'm just trying to highlight the difference between like a
• 7:38
  general traditional
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  venture capital when a founder's teaching venture funds and
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  spending a lot of time
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  SPEAKER_03: to pursue and...
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  SPEAKER_03: If they have only one yes, like, I believe in your idea.
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  SPEAKER_03: And they got funded.
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  SPEAKER_03: So just one yes can open the way to success.
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  SPEAKER_03: And in the corporate world, so different, it works differently.
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  SPEAKER_03: So only one no from a person from corporate side,
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  SPEAKER_03: like from cybersecurity department,
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  SPEAKER_03: IT department,
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  SPEAKER_03: or
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  procurement department could stop the POC or could end up a
• 8:27
  corporationist.
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  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, got it now.
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  SPEAKER_00: So in a way,
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  SPEAKER_00: to a certain extent,
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  what I'm hearing is that it's pretty much defensive innovation
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  versus offensive
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  SPEAKER_00: disruption.
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  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Or are we on the same line?
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  SPEAKER_00: And honestly,
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  it reminds me that what you're seeing with companies with
• 8:43
  Google and Apple,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: they didn't just build everything in the house.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like I said,
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  SPEAKER_00: Google Ventures has invested in everything from Uber to 23andMe,
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  SPEAKER_00: but here's my question.
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  Does that defensive mindset actually work or does it create
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  corporate zombies that
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: are too slow to innovate?
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  Because we were saying earlier,
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  like the one yes and one no,
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  how does that play out?
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  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
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  SPEAKER_03: it's a very interesting question,
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  especially in terms of how corporate VCs allocate budget for
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  innovation department.
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  Some of corporates look very much on their revenue is under
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  pressure in their
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  SPEAKER_03: operation and which market segments they want to
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  target currently or in the future of which divisions have like
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  a fresh road for
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  SPEAKER_03: innovation activities.
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  SPEAKER_03: So,
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  SPEAKER_03: and they,
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  every time they look how much it will cost to defend their
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  current revenue or how
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  SPEAKER_03: much
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  SPEAKER_03: cost of defense that driving you under pressure.
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  So that could define the portfolio of innovation projects for
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  the next year,
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  SPEAKER_03: in other three years.
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  SPEAKER_03: So,
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  SPEAKER_03: and using this,
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  SPEAKER_03: how to say,
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  SPEAKER_03: let it be historical performance data,
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  SPEAKER_03: corporates can establish how much they're going to invest in
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  innovation so and that companies that you mentioned so they for
• 10:30
  sure implement the
• 10:31
  same approach oh that's interesting so the difference that that
• 10:36
  you're looking at
• 10:37
  is between reacting from fear versus acting from vision is that
• 10:42
  right is that what
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  SPEAKER_00: you're essentially saying
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  SPEAKER_03: And yes and no.
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  So we discussed previously before recording,
• 10:53
  so this stuff about corporate zombies.
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  SPEAKER_03: So I really love this metaphor, corporate zombies.
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  SPEAKER_03: I love that phrase.
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  So because sometimes it's hard funding some initiative,
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  but it's harder to stop funding.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's harder to stop funding.
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  SPEAKER_03: Harder.
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  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's to stop funding.
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  SPEAKER_03: Because we spent so much money.
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  SPEAKER_03: So we've been funding these particular initiatives for like five years.
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  SPEAKER_03: And it could be not easy to...
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Say, oh, it's not viable anymore.
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  SPEAKER_03: So the market has rapidly changed.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: So we don't need this initiative anymore.
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  SPEAKER_03: And so on and so forth.
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  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes these projects become like corporate zombies.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now I see it now.
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  Because that's actually a quite new insight for me because I'm
• 11:55
  not really...
• 11:56
  see that but now that you put it into perspective where
• 11:58
  corporates are like just
• 11:59
  literally doing this so that kind of makes sense now that there
• 12:04
  will be corporate
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  zombies so moving on from there the best corporate BCs I've
• 12:09
  seen aren't scared of
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: being disrupted and they're excited about being part of that disruption
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And let's tackle that elephant in the room, speed.
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  SPEAKER_00: Every founder that I know has this story,
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  SPEAKER_00: oh God,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  this corporate investor took six months to decide and then
• 12:25
  wanted to control
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: everything.
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  SPEAKER_00: Given that it's hard to stop funding, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Is this still true?
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  SPEAKER_00: Or this is just outdated Silicon Valley bias?
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  SPEAKER_00: Or is it relevant even in Southeast Asia based on your experience?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Great that you mentioned that, like Silicon Valley bias.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: I had so many conversations with great innovators from...
• 12:52
  Europe,
• 12:53
  Africa,
• 12:53
  Southeast Asia,
• 12:55
  and sometimes they have their own way to be innovative.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: So necessary to copy Silicon Valley practices.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: not just a coffee, to clone, to make up the cats.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: And we really made a great ecosystem that really worked.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Corporate VC is changing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: During my time running innovation programs,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: we dedicated particular funds and trying to make the process super fast,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: super lean.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: And the startup have a make
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: fit with our portfolio, with our strategy.
• 13:41
  We always say yes to make a POC,
• 13:46
  to make a quick decision in terms of go or not go.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: with this technology or with that technology.
• 13:55
  The crucial stuff is a value proposition,
• 13:58
  also value proposition for startups.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: So why companies should choose your corporation and not your competitor.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, and that's a really interesting question.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: So how to make...
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: your brand really attractive for founders, for talent in general.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that's another really big question.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 14:29
  And that's such an important distinction that you have made
• 14:31
  because I hate to say
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: it,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm just going to throw in one life nugget here.
• 14:36
  It's like the difference between getting married and building a
• 14:39
  life together.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: One can happen so quickly, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: The other is a longer process.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, this reminds me of how Amazon operates.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: They'll move fast on strategic investments.
• 14:49
  But integrating those technologies into their core platform is
• 14:53
  a very methodical,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: long-term process.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Seems like what you're trying to say, is it right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: The best practices show that companies should be really agile and agile.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: in terms of how to work with startups, how to make a decision.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: And actually what I did at PwC with our clients and for internal.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: So my role was very similar to like a connector to a facilitator.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: between board leaders,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: their speed in their agenda,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: and founders speed,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: and how to synchronize,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: how to connect,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: like agility,
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: super agility,
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: and corporate world is super,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: super hard.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Not easy, yeah, and we, so...
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds like very simple right now,
• 15:59
  but we implemented like a different approach is agile to
• 16:06
  holistic methodology with
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: a hundred thousand different artifacts,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: how to manage all of this.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: So not really an easy task.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's why
• 16:21
  There are not so many actually companies in the world that
• 16:27
  really succeed in
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: corporate innovation because it's really,
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: really hard.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go to founders first.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And now that I think you're doing something on your own,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think you could empathize more from that perspective as well.
• 16:41
  Because I think there are some deep misconceptions here that
• 16:44
  are costing people opportunities.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get real about founder psychology for a moment.
• 16:50
  I've seen brilliant founders turn down corporate money because
• 16:53
  they're terrified of
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: losing independence.
• 16:55
  I think this is playing out pretty much in the AI world right
• 16:58
  now where Mark
• 17:01
  Zuckerberg is trying to buy over some open AI engineers and no
• 17:04
  one wants that.
• 17:05
  Or they think that taking money from one big player will block
• 17:08
  them from working
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: with competitors.
• 17:10
  Are these fears rational or are we dealing with startup urban
• 17:16
  legends here?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: Brought up a very sensitive question.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Actually,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: actually,
• 17:26
  there are cases you can read on a Forbes or other prominent
• 17:32
  media about how to say
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: non-ethic conditions.
• 17:40
  On the other hand,
• 17:41
  from my experience,
• 17:42
  it's most of the time a myth and a biased approach.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: So from my side,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: it's really a myth that Big Brother will steal your IT,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: copy and make the same product with their own resources.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 18:09
  Most of the time,
• 18:10
  the corporates are not capable to do the same because...
• 18:17
  So they can spend one year discussing which color of them
• 18:23
  should be,
• 18:24
  et cetera,
• 18:25
  et cetera.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: So from my side,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: from my point of view,
• 18:29
  it's really a myth that corporates will easily attack an idea
• 18:36
  and make the same.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: So in real life, founders should...
• 18:42
  rely on the corporate process and build trustworth
• 18:50
  relationships with innovation
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: managers,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: with business unit leaders.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a two-way road.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: So corporates also struggle.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Startup can steal their internal data.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: But there is a lot of stories around this topic.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: And some of them are like horror stories.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: But if both sides make everything properly,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: so that should reduce risk for the both sides significantly.
• 19:26
  And at the end of the day,
• 19:30
  the goal is to make mutually beneficial decisions
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: projects, mutually beneficial opportunities.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why if there is no trust, how to make it?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And trust, we're back to the topic of trust again, again and again.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Last week, we talked about trust as well.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this week is about corporates and partners.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what I'm hearing as well,
• 19:54
  you're saying that it's hard to have corporates to copy
• 19:58
  startups' ideas because
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: they move so slowly.
• 20:00
  To make a decision,
• 20:02
  it takes such a long time to get to where they want to be.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other hand,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: because of the wall that they have signed onto the terms with corporates,
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: it's hard for them to get accessed into companies.
• 20:12
  corporate side of things right so essentially where we are
• 20:14
  coming we are looking at
• 20:15
  is it comes down to imposter syndrome and information asymmetry
• 20:19
  and you know
• 20:19
  founders see this giant corporation assume that it would weaker
• 20:22
  party but if that
• 20:24
  corporate is investing is because they need what the startup
• 20:27
  has so you're kind of
• 20:29
  debunking these myths right now which is pretty good and i
• 20:34
  think it's also a bit
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: like
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: dating, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you go in desperate, you'll accept terrible terms.
• 20:42
  And if you go in knowing your worth,
• 20:44
  confidence,
• 20:44
  you can create genuine partnerships.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I guess the trust really builds up.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly,
• 20:50
  this reminds me of how Reid Hoffman talks about building
• 20:53
  relationships in Silicon
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Valley.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's about mutual value creation, like you said, not power dynamics.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this rings true again,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: not just within friendships,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: relationships,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: or even corporate partnerships.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty much everywhere across the board.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And now let's talk about what makes Southeast Asia unique in this space.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned earlier that Thailand is becoming a real CVC hub, right?
• 21:18
  great and which honestly surprises a lot of people who still
• 21:21
  think Singapore is the
• 21:23
  only game in town that's driving the shift finally someone's
• 21:26
  working for time so
• 21:30
  yeah according to many reports and according to reality yes so
• 21:44
  most of the money in
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: venture capital comes from corporates in Thailand and
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Particularly so, and there's many reasons why.
• 21:54
  And as for,
• 21:57
  so Singapore,
• 21:58
  yeah,
• 22:00
  still the regional largest hub for many funds.
• 22:07
  Singapore is the number one in terms of amount of deals and
• 22:11
  amount of funds.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: It has incredibly supported by government.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: as well.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia still on their way to the top ranks.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: So however, these markets obviously
• 22:31
  developing rapidly so and i could mention that vietnam as well
• 22:36
  that's also booming
• 22:38
  and if i look at different sectors in thailand i can mention a
• 22:43
  few examples that i
• 22:46
  recently attacked so summit yeah one month ago so banks k-bank
• 22:52
  cbx krungsifin away
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: there so in the so they presented
• 22:58
  a lot of dozens of different internal projects,
• 23:03
  product that they have developed.
• 23:06
  last year to make user experience more seamless,
• 23:10
  more fast,
• 23:12
  and so on and so forth.
• 23:14
  Also retail sector,
• 23:16
  Lotus CP Group,
• 23:18
  Lotus Macro also shared wonderful cases.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Also energy companies, so in Thailand like Big Rim and Benpool.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I admire, really admire what they achieved so far.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: and the approach of corporate innovation.
• 23:40
  And that's a really great example of how Silicon Valley
• 23:45
  approach and best local
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: practices,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: local context could be mixed together for real tangible results.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: when you combine them.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said,
• 23:59
  you have seen deals where CVC co-invests with the corporates
• 24:04
  here and the startups
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: here and the startup gets the best of both worlds.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: that's the future right here.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not about East versus West, right?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's about integrated global innovation networks.
• 24:21
  And I think this ties into something important about how we
• 24:26
  think about competitive
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: advantage in the bottom world.
• 24:29
  And in terms of getting specific about where this money is
• 24:33
  actually flowing,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: and like you said,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Singapore is still the hub,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: but the neighboring countries are catching up.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I read recently that the AI startups have captured
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: about 37% of all CVC-backed funding globally.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Are we seeing similar patterns here in Southeast Asia, you think?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: like you were mentioning earlier,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: when you were at the Texas Summit,
• 24:55
  you were saying that AI startups are coming up quick and are
• 24:59
  corporates focusing on
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: different opportunities then?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: So AI is absolutely a new buzzword today.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: And Southeast Asia as well.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: So not an exception.
• 25:16
  Corporate receives here,
• 25:17
  of course,
• 25:18
  very careful on this topic and chasing people.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: different interesting companies as well.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: by the way,
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thailand last year introduced its own LLM,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: large language model for Thai language.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that is backed by one of the largest banks.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: The project?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Typhoon.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Typhoon.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: Typhoon, the name of this firm.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, wow.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: So that's it.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, of course, AI is all of this genetic stuff and language models.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: of course,
• 26:07
  corporate follow this trend and trying to adopt different
• 26:15
  cutting edge technologies
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: around it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: The most interesting cases that I've seen came from Telco.
• 26:28
  e-commerce platforms and retail sector and connected with
• 26:34
  operational efficiency.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Let it be AI for operational efficiency.
• 26:42
  For example,
• 26:43
  call centers,
• 26:44
  warehouses,
• 26:46
  matchmaking,
• 26:48
  and so on and so forth.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the way they're doing it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so Thailand has its own version of literally,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: no pun intended,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: AI being a typhoon picking up stuff in Thailand.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 27:04
  It's like you're playing chess while everyone else is playing
• 27:06
  chess again.
• 27:07
  And honestly,
• 27:08
  this reminds me of how Warren Buffet just doesn't buy stocks.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: He buys pieces of an interconnected business empire.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's very similar to that one, how things are playing together.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And here's something I'm really curious about.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: When traditional VCs and corporate VCs co-invest...
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's that dynamic actually like?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is it collaborative or is there tension between control and vision?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because on one hand,
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:32
  traditional VCs can get all creative and loud and just they
• 27:36
  want to do what they
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: want to do.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas corporates are like, okay, we have steps to follow.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: What is that like?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: How do you join creativity and structure?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really tough question.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Great question.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's involved.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: So when we're talking about like different models,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: there are different types of collaborations,
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: mechanics,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: outputs,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: matchmaking platforms,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: intelligence charge tools,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: passive or active venture capital arms.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's consulting firms as well.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll do that.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: So different tools that help navigate this landscape and really active
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: collaboration frameworks.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: are under look most of the times.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: and when I started to work with a client or a corporate venture team,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: I always suggest to have five elements in a focus.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: First one is strategy.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: So what's our mission?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: So what's our vision?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: how we want to be presented on the venture market.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: So what's our principles?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: What's our alignment core leadership team?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: So second one is people.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: So do we hire right people with the right mindset,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: with the right background to run all of these innovation activities?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: How we recognize what's the skillset that they're required?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: how we obscure them.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: So very interesting questions.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: Third...
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Third aspect, third pillar is formal structure, organization.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: So how we should make our fund structured,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: how we can connect our firm to the networks in the VC world.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: So then fourth is operation.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: What process should be inside?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Method, tools, decision-making mechanics, and the cadence speed.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: et cetera.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: And the fifth element, the last but not least, is a matrix.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: So how we measure the performance, how we do reporting, et cetera.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: So in case all of these five elements are well-developed,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think it could lead to a really meaningful collaboration activities.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah,
• 30:36
  we've seen a lot of great examples here in Thailand and other
• 30:42
  countries when this
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: approach implemented,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: they could have a really tangible results.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: it sounds to me like as you were describing the five elements,
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking about a few dances.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was it ballroom dance?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Was it tango dance?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Was it any other dance?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because it seems like it had all the five elements as well.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more like towards competitive dance.
• 31:04
  And it kind of makes sense because you're talking about
• 31:06
  competing on an international scale.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're just thinking about that,
• 31:10
  I think that's how you kind of get the flow going about how it
• 31:13
  relates to dances.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you have the vision.
• 31:15
  So two people have to have the same big picture about how they
• 31:18
  want this dance to be in.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: The people, do they have dancing background?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third one was what again?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, the third one.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: The third one was... Sorry, the fourth one was organization.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: The fifth one was metrics.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: The third one was... So strategy, people, organization...
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: operational and metrics.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, I was just thinking about it, how it all connects the dots.
• 31:43
  But anyway,
• 31:44
  again,
• 31:44
  I'm drifting off a bit and let's not get me drifting off.
• 31:47
  Let's come back to Pavel again because he's the main guest star
• 31:52
  of the show.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, let's get personal for a bit.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Your journey is fascinating.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Russian engineer,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: that itself is interesting,
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: to startup accelerator director,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: to EWZ's venture program,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: to Cornell,
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: and now advising across Southeast Asia.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: What drove this transition?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure people have heard that you've shared your expertise here,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: but I think this sheds some light about who you are as a person.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: At the end, maybe you're all human beings.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let us know, who is Papel?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for that question.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: So actually, I have a very traditional computer science education.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I graduated from very traditional faculty.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I had to grow to the idea that most of...
• 32:58
  issues and problems I faced during my engineering career was
• 33:04
  connected with the
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: people side of business,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: so with the project management side,
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: marketing,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: people management questions,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: and so on and so forth.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I switched
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: more business-related tasks, business-related projects.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I joined a venture firm.
• 33:38
  So we organized a lot of startup events,
• 33:41
  explorators across European countries.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I witnessed a lot of founders and their transformer ideas.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: And the venture capital sector became really attractive.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: So, and...
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Another reason why I'm here,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: so why I joined this career path,
• 34:04
  because venture capital may be one of the tools how to predict
• 34:14
  the future,
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: how to know what happened in 10 years,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: 20 years,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: 50 years,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: 100 years.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: So after moving to Southeast Asia, two adventures.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I had a privilege and pleasure to experience two adventures.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: So venture capital and being across Southeast Asian countries.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's my... You decided to end today while you're here.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good way to put it.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And how long has it been that you've been in Southeast Asia now?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Three years for now.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's a pretty good time to be in.
• 35:04
  And like you were saying,
• 35:05
  you got the best two ventures,
• 35:07
  like personal and also corporate.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And how has it been for you on a personal level?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get to know a bit about.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so, uh,
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's challenging, challenging.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a new experience for me.
• 35:26
  And I try to bring my knowledge,
• 35:29
  my experience to the new advisory projects as well.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I see that I can bring value to corporate, to startup teams as well.
• 35:46
  uh especially when it comes to bridging two worlds europe yes
• 35:51
  southeast asia so and
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: i currently try to help uh founders and uh
• 35:59
  corporate to navigate all of this complexity in a safe way with
• 36:06
  integrity and with
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: a high level of trust.
• 36:09
  I'm hearing that you're trying to bring over whatever you
• 36:12
  learned from corporate to
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: integrate it in your life in some way or another.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: But what keeps you grounded?
• 36:22
  I'm aligned with you on how being venture capital means you're
• 36:25
  at the forefront of technology.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes...
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: When you think of VC, things can get a bit idealistic, right?
• 36:32
  Things can get a bit too far ahead,
• 36:34
  like 50 years,
• 36:35
  30 years,
• 36:36
  50 years,
• 36:36
  100 years.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: What keeps you grounded?
• 36:39
  Can you imagine it's easy to get caught up with all the hype
• 36:42
  and the big numbers?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's more...
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: Philosophical equation, not practical.
• 36:52
  I would say that my natural curiosity gave me an opportunity to
• 36:59
  stay humble around
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: all of this hype.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I've seen a lot of startup stories,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: failed stories,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: like 90% of them are failed stories,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: 10% success stories.
• 37:24
  And all of these stories taught me a lot about passion,
• 37:33
  about right timing,
• 37:35
  about
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: importance of deep understanding of stakeholders,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: right,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: project and product management techniques.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: To be honest, all of these, let me stay curious about venture capital.
• 37:57
  So I'm really passionate about working with founders and what's
• 38:03
  happened,
• 38:04
  what will happen in
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: next five or 10 years.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that's made me wake up in the morning.
• 38:14
  I don't know whether this is for you,
• 38:16
  but I think ultimately it's how you feel about it.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: In a way that being in VC,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: not only does it mean that you're the forefront of tech,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: you're also working a lot with founders.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that means that you have a lot of empathy for that.
• 38:29
  And I think being in a founder-led industry as well means that
• 38:33
  you're more open to authenticity.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're more open to what failures are.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a very human experience.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: At least that's my...
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: perspective about how being in VC has been for me.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I find it very grounding.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I find it very humbling to a certain extent.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you just said as well,
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 38:50
  you talk about authenticity often comes from vulnerability and
• 38:53
  being willing to
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: admit that when things don't work,
• 38:56
  which is primarily how founders do because things don't always
• 38:59
  work the first time.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly,
• 39:01
  that failure story has probably taught you more about corporate
• 39:04
  startup dynamics
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: than a dozen successful projects.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really true because I feel that same way as well.
• 39:11
  Even coming up with this podcast as well,
• 39:13
  there's always one way to solve a problem.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's always 10,000 ways.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, not one way.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Totally aligned with that mindset.
• 39:20
  And I really appreciate you coming on,
• 39:21
  especially with this kind of mindset.
• 39:23
  And the more curious we are,
• 39:25
  I think the more conversations like this will happen.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: More authenticity will come in.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's just do some rapid fire.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to throw a few questions at you.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Most unrated, unfortunately, take
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: Climate tech and energy tech in Southeast Asia as well.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so climate and energy.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's a climate in Thailand right now.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kidding.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so what is your advice for founders considering current money?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Find a right stakeholder.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite figure?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is humanizing current.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: The favorite failure that taught me something.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: Good numbers is not enough.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: So a good presentation sometimes is better than just the good numbers.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of the next ideas, let's create a DJI podcast so it looks like.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: What have you changed about cooperation in Southeast Asia?
• 40:25
  I hope we'll see more big exits and IPOs since it's a really
• 40:32
  good traction.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: So as far as I remember, five unicorns currently in Thailand.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: Five that came from Thailand.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I hope we'll see more major acquisitions as well where corporate
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: investors played a crucial role for an early stage start, etc.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: I hope we'll see more Thai founders and founders from other countries,
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: from other Southeast Asian countries that succeed in U.S.,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Econ Valley,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: and other parts of the world as well.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's one idea.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: And sell for the corporate.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm with you on that one.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, seriously.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not kidding, sorry.
• 41:23
  I'm kidding in the way I'm saying it,
• 41:25
  but I'm serious about content on it.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's a good distinction to have.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: But this example where someone can have a real value
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's true.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, one more thing.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my final question before we press stop.
• 41:50
  If you could give one piece of life advice to young
• 41:52
  professionals who want to have
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: the kind of impact they're having,
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: what would that be?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: Continue learning something new.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: Continuous learning, isn't it?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: Good stuff.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: And stay curious.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: And stay curious.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And wow.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea of being like what you've done so far,
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: the idea of being a translator between two worlds,
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's exactly what the innovation economy needs more of.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: So for all, this was absolutely fantastic.
• 42:21
  I feel like covered a lot of corporate psychology to founder
• 42:24
  strategy to regional
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: lives with some great personal insights along the way.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing and being of yourself.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's important to be here.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And for listeners who want to dive deeper into this space,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: what should they be reading,
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: watching,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: or following?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: I would say like,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: so actually I can't name the very,
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: very specific,
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: very specific source.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, um, yeah.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: So great.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're the director of Kabel, he's from my name.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Kabel is a and I highly recommend you can be found and solve any new
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: conferences in Southeast Asia, he'll be there.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Zohim Panang, there's a high chance he'll be in Thailand.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know when it's going to be, but stay tuned to LinkedIn.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: And before we wrap up, I want to leave you with this.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Cooper Venture Capital isn't just about big companies.
• 43:38
  writing checks to startups it's about fundamentally reimagining
• 43:43
  how innovation
• 43:43
  happens when you combine corporate resources with corporate
• 43:48
  resources with startup
• 43:49
  agility and here in southeast asia we are not just copying
• 43:53
  silicon valley playbooks
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: like it's it's refreshing to hear that and we are writing our own
• 44:00
  So whether you're a founder considering corporate investors or
• 44:03
  corporate executive
• 44:03
  thinking about venture strategy or just someone fascinated by
• 44:08
  how innovation
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: actually spreads through economies,
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: I hope this conversation gave you some new frameworks to think with.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or reach out to Pavel.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's happy to connect.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's a connector of all worlds anyway, right?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you again, Pavel, for your time and for welcoming me to Bangkok.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's been such a pleasure being here with you.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it has been the last.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if anyone wants to continue this conversation over Laksa, hit us up.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in Penang.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a wrap on this episode.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Kim.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: And remember,
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: in a world full of noise,
• 44:43
  sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is just be real
• 44:47
  about what's actually
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: working.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep building, keep questioning, and keep it unfiltered.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Look, here's the thing.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Innovation isn't just about speed or strategy that acts.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's about trust, again.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: The invisible kind,
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 45:24
  the kind that you feel in a room before a term sheet is signed
• 45:29
  or maybe the safety
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: that you feel when you are with a loved one.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's trust too.
• 45:38
  Unwavering silence,
• 45:40
  that's something that you can feel safe in,
• 45:42
  is what I'm saying.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: One yes can open doors that you didn't know even existed.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: And on the other hand,
• 45:52
  one no from the wrong person at the wrong time can kill the
• 45:59
  dream before it even
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: starts.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's the dance between corporates and startups.
• 46:05
  And it's not always elegant,
• 46:07
  but when it works,
• 46:09
  it's electric or rather electrifying.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode gave you something to chew on,
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: tag a friend,
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: send it to that one exec who always says we should do more with startups,
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: or just share it with someone curious like you,
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: maybe on Spotify,
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Apple Podcasts,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: and LinkedIn,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: and YouTube too.
• 46:35
  And just a quick heads up,
• 46:37
  everything shared here is for informational purposes only.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't treat this as a financial and investment advice.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know the drill.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're just talking.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hanging out.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just two of us hanging out.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Kim.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the Sea of Startups.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in a world full of,
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: in a world chasing the next unicorn,
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: maybe being real is the only age that matters.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: See you in the next one.