Latest / Bards and Barrels / S1 Ep. 15 - Mailbag Time Again

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S1 Ep. 15 - Mailbag Time Again · Bards and Barrels

0:02
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Bards and Barrels, the podcast for Dungeons and Dragons players new and old.
0:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm Ron Struce, and I'm joined by my friends and co-hosts Brett Miller and Phil Boone.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: We'll be exploring the world of Dungeons and Dragons in each episode, sharing our experiences, offering tips and advice for those who play and run this classic game.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: So whether you're a new player just starting out or a seasoned veteran looking to get a new perspective on things, Bards and Barrels has something for everyone.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: So sit back, grab a drink, and join us as we roll for initiative and embark on an epic adventure.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: And there's the opening crack.
0:36
SPEAKER_02: It is time for another episode of Bards and Barrels.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm Ross, along with me for the ride as always, Phil and Bright.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: How are we doing this evening, gentlemen?
0:43
SPEAKER_02: Woo! I'm ready for this one.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Glad to be back in the rule chair.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: It's a good one over there.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: It's a nice lumbar through it, right?
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we are gonna do another mailbag tonight, and this one should be a fun one.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: So I think uh we'll just jump right into this, guys.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, here we go.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: Which class is useless when it's improperly equipped?
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I got a story for this one.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh I would say from personal experience experience, um, when you have a warlock that does not have Eldritch Blast equipped or any spells, they can't do much.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in in DD Beyond, like you're going through making your character, and it's like a separate tab along the way that you have to equip spells.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And ding dong me forgot to go into that tab and equip spells, and so we start getting into this campaign.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: It's I have nothing to do.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: I have a short bow, and we almost got wiped.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that can uh that can hit you like in almost any of the spellcasting classes if you want to careful.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: So nothing like being uh non-equipped with spells.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: I think uh on the flip side of that too.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: I I see like um I honestly, I think the one that comes to mind for me really is like a paladin, not maybe understanding fully what they're doing, like not understanding how their smites work and what their like weapon proficiencies are, because if it's not equipped appropriately, I mean paladin's not I mean they've got some things, but not going to be able to do what a paladin should be doing for your party.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: So no, I I wholeheartedly agree with that.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: And if we're going along those lines, I think the first time you play a character in any campaign at level one, you're pretty useless for probably most of the first session until you get a handle on what you're doing.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: So well, and then so many of the classes, their core features don't kick in until level two, level three.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so level one sucks.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: All right, and but hopefully I would I would add you're not gonna be in level one for more than one or two sessions.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, typically.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Normally you bump past that pretty quick, right?
2:59
SPEAKER_02: And then the whole point is that you can kind of feel out your character and get used to playing them and what what they can do, learn the ins and outs.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: So in beyond as well.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna play like a melee fighter or something along those lines, when you add your starting equipment, you also need to click that little like use button, or else you don't equip your weapons or your armor either.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: You're a beyond player, watch for that.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, this one's a fun one.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, if a druid is under the effects of it of the enlarge spell and then wild shapes into an animal, are they still under the effect of the spell?
3:32
SPEAKER_02: And is this now just a huge animal?
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: What do you say, Phil?
3:38
SPEAKER_01: I'd allow it.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the ruling is, but as a DM, I'd allow it.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: I would too.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh only I I mean, just on quick glance, neither one of those take concentration to use, so you're not breaking concentration in order to do the other one, regardless of what it is.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: So I think because of that, and the enlarged spell does not end the effects, or not uh the wild shape does not end the effects of a spell.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: So if you cast enlarge, doesn't take concentration, and then you wild shape, doesn't need concentration, and it doesn't end the effects of a prior prior spell.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: I would also rule that you could do it.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: The rules be damned.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: That's effing.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Go for the fun.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you can basically have the giant spiders from Harry Potter invading your campaign, bring it.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: And we're we were talking about Wild Shape on one of the episodes, and we were talking about how weather Trinket from Vox Machina was was uh was a familiar or something, wasn't it?
4:38
SPEAKER_02: But we were talking about like all the things you could have for your familiar and everything.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: So could could you wild shape into like a velociraptor?
4:45
SPEAKER_02: Because the Velociraptor came into that because it's yes, oh yeah, it's naughty now.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is one of the challenge ratings that you can.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: So bingo, giant velociraptor, to enlarge your velociraptor, you become a T-Rex.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Dang right.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: Except for smarter and faster.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: Works.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Do you get do you think there should be a sort of any kind of limitations on that though, other than just what your spell and the number of times you can wild shape would impose?
5:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I I would probably hit the brakes a little bit if you're doing it a lot.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Just because that probably gives you an unfair advantage.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: But I don't know if the stats necessarily change because you're bigger.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: You're not hitting any harder.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: True.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Almost there might be something that you can do with like a challenge rating multiplier limitation.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: Like if you can challenge rate, if you can wild shape into something challenge rating one, but you have to be level ten for it to scale up past that.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, or maybe if you can do a challenge rating two, but you have to be a higher level to be able to enlarge that go giant.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Okay, we're gonna move on to the next question.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, hey guys, what do you do when players are way off base, and how do you bring them back to the correct answers?
6:05
SPEAKER_01: Chugga chug-a-choo-choo, baby.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: No, not always, but uh if it comes to it, you know, you railroad them.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but find an appropriate channel as best you can, whether that's uh NPC intervention, whether that's you know, uh monster that they can't beat, turning them around, or something along those lines.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Um an you know, undiscovered clue all of a sudden they find handwritten in thieves can't that the rogue can reach, or you know, something along those lines to steer them back in.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And eventually you've gotta increase your push.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Like if they're not getting in, at some point you're just gonna have to give them a hard stop on what they're doing.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, Phil, I remember one time uh you let us like go down a tunnel, and then we were going and supposed to break through this uh trapdoor in the ceiling to get into this area.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: And we didn't know at the time, but none of that was actually in the book.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: It was just a wild goose chase.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but you let us break through this trapdoor because we had some really good roles, and in it we found like a pocket dimension with a dragon's layer hidden inside of it, that we had no reason to be in there, like we were going to get killed.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: I forgot about that.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: So that was a pretty immediate, like turn back and go the other way type of situation.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: I think this is the quintessential situation of you're the DM, have fun with it.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: Your players aren't gonna know one way or the other if you're railroading them.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: If an NPC pops up with the right answer, they find a note somewhere on a on an accurate investigation check.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Who cares?
7:48
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: And with the Phil and the dragon thing, we didn't know that that was not supposed to be a thing.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: So the entire time afterwards, we're like, why was the dragon under there?
7:58
SPEAKER_00: What are like, are we gonna have to take care of that at some point?
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Do we need to increase levels or like what I did forget about that, but you're right.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: And also, pocket dimensions are great because it's like you just go in and you go back out, right?
8:08
SPEAKER_01: You just create whatever you want.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: It's this weird little demi plane, and yeah, one way in, one way out, nothing else to do.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: Guess you should go somewhere else.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, here we go.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: So, how do you feel about reskinning spells?
8:22
SPEAKER_02: Effects would be similar as possible to the original spell, uh, but maybe a character has like a water version of fireball or rocks flying instead of the fire or something like that.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think if you can do it in a way that fits your characters, go for it.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, in our um big campaign that we just wrapped up, um, at one point I had taken taken the armor of Agatha, which is normally, I believe it's a ice or cold spell.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sounds damage.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: Um did not fit with my character.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: I was a fire genie, F ready genie.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: So we changed that to just be a fire version of that armor of Agatha spell to make it fit my character.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'll say too, so more than just even the aesthetics, right?
9:11
SPEAKER_01: If you want it to look a different way, you know, check with your DM, but they're typically not going to have an issue with it.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Um to Brett's point, you know, we were able to actually just change the damage type even.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Like reskin it that far, sure, it does the same, you know, amount of damage, a d6 to start with, or whatever it is.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: We just change it from cold to fire.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: Now that could have some impact on the campaign, so just run it by your DM.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I I'm all for reskinning things.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think uh another example of that was um at some point my my paladin in our last campaign, our descendant of Vernus campaign, um, also got Eldric Blast because I took a feat that allowed me to get some Warlock spells, and Brett would cast uh Ari, Brett's character would cast like the quintessential fireball, like the crackling bolt type thing.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: And then like because Thorns a paladin, like we switched it up so it was more like radiant damage looking, just fit the character more.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: We didn't change anything else about it, but the look was definitely different.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I would also say there are certain campaign settings too that actually tell you to reskin spells.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: So like Curse of Strahd actually says like if somebody uses mage hand, it should be like a skeletal hand versus like just a normal hand or things like that.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's cool.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's cool.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: So we haven't run like we're we're doing Curse of Strahd right now.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: We haven't run into any of that quite yet.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm sure we will as we face bigger and badder enemies that we'll we'll do some reskinning and some tweaking on stuff.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: But that's really fun for you as a DM to drop in unexpectedly for the characters to find.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so that'll be fun.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: So hey, be surprised when it happens.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh-oh.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Some of our other party members are listening to this.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: It's fine, it's fine, it'll be all good.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Don't tell.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, hey guys, noob DM question.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: What what's a good playable size for a single floor tavern?
11:01
SPEAKER_01: What?
11:02
SPEAKER_01: Read the question again.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Hold on a second.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: What's a good playable size for a single floor tavern?
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Like dimensions?
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh that that's how I read the city.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: Like number of tables?
11:14
SPEAKER_02: I I I think I think what they're trying to figure out, and and and if we don't answer this correctly, please reach out and we will try to re-answer this question for you.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: But my guess is they're trying to like figure out complexity, right?
11:27
SPEAKER_02: So it's like, this is my first tavern we're going into.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to be figuring out a massive tavern, so what's like a manageable size?
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a tough question because I almost truthfully think it depends on why you need the tavern.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Because if this is like, hey, the party's gonna meet up here and go on their adventure, you need a bartender and maybe two or three patrons that are probably gonna help push the party into whatever the adventure is supposed to be.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you have a traveling bard in there to spice up the you know descriptions of the place, but that's gonna be a totally different scenario than hey, you just got sent into Baldur's Gate, you're supposed to go to the shady, like you know, on the slum type of tavern.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: There's a bartender, a bouncer, you know, they gamble in the back room type of scenario, completely different and different setups, too.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: And if we jump out of Fate Rune and go to something more futuristic, you could have a club as a bar.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, whatever fits your campaign, if you have to go into a club and find a somebody you're supposed to meet inside the club, that could be interesting.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: I would say if this is your first tavern, like if you're real, this is why you're deep into this thought process, um, don't don't think about it too much.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: Like if even if it's big, like have the key points down.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: Who are they gonna who do they need to talk to?
12:48
SPEAKER_02: You probably need to think about the bartender because everybody goes and talks to the bartender, but otherwise, just drop people in there.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: People are drinking, people are eating, there's music playing.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Don't overthink it too much.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my kind of standard general bar that I think about going into is like two or three booths on either side of the room, and then like two tables in the middle, and that's all it is.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: So, not a large building at all.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: I default back to like a three broomsticks from Harry Potter.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: Nah.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: Like walk in and there's like eight tables on each side with a bar up front, and then that's a little bit bigger then.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Definitely a little bit bigger, yeah.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and then almost always for whatever reason, if I'm coming up with a tavern on the fly, there's always like a staircase with rooms up above.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: Like open to like you can see it.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Or in tavern in yeah, and I don't know if that's because of like watching western movies, like that's how they were typically set up, you know, kind of thing.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: But I I don't I don't know where that comes from.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: I almost spend more time.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: Yes, being part of it.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: I usually spend more times thinking of like what the names of the drinks are behind the bar as like what's actually happening in the bar.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: So that's just ale.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: You got ale.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: What else?
13:56
SPEAKER_02: Wine.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: What do you want?
13:59
SPEAKER_01: The white's wine.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: Come on, you gotta like some alliteration, man.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: I'll work on that.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: I gotta I gotta work on my creativity a little bit apparently.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, so how do you guys define murder hobos?
14:14
SPEAKER_02: I think my party might be a set of them, but I'm unsure.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: If you have to ask that question, I define them as player characters.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, well, the the character that I'm playing in the current campaign that one of our buddies is running, um, one of his character traits is shoot first, ask questions later.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: And that might be the motto of a murder hobo.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: I think that is the motto of a motto of a murder hobo.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: But my alignment doesn't push me into that every situation.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: Murder hobo, I would define murder hobos as a group of people that shows up and instead of trying anything else, they don't try to talk through a situation, they don't try to investigate a situation, they show up, they see people, and the first thing they think of is see ya.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, totally.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: Like if your first instinct is kill, kill, kill, you're murder hobos.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think typically what you'd find is it's combat-heavy parties are probably gonna lean that way a little bit.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: If you don't have a group of people who are very good in social interactions within the game, you're gonna have more of that type of stuff for sure.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay, next question.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh, wondering what you all thought about the Cragma hideout cave at the beginning of Lost Minds of Fandelver.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm getting mixed reviews with some saying that's perfect and others saying that it's too complicated for first-time players.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: And I think all of us, have you running?
15:42
SPEAKER_02: I've done that part of it.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: You've done Lost Minds, you've definitely done it, and I've done it.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: So I thought this was an appropriate question when I was going through to talk about this one.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: So repeat the question.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: It's asking if it's complicated for the player or for the DM.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was wondering the same.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: I I would say it doesn't specify, but we could probably talk about it a little bit from both aspects, I think.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you guys felt, but I as a DM, I definitely had to reread that section like several times to really kind of understand what was happening.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: Because there's like pool mechanics, there's like there's layers.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and there's like a bridge that goes across, and I think that's what gets confusing is like the route that you're supposed to go kind of zigzags, and it gets a little convoluted with being able to follow that with just the pictures in the book and then trying to explain that to the players.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: I would guess almost as a player, like uh you're probably fine if you don't really look at the map because you just kind of get what's explained to you for the most part.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: I I think it was a little bit of both.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: I think as a player, if you weren't looking at a map, it was probably fairly easy because it's straightforward, you just where you need to go, what you need to do, right?
16:57
SPEAKER_02: As a DM, I thought it was a little tricky because I also had to think because like you guys were saying, like just that setting, different layers, bridges, like having I had to be very careful with how I was explaining things, like in relation to where players were.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh and for you know, going from like 10 minutes earlier, you were having your first battle with like three goblins out on the road to now you're in this cave.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: And I think there was a bug bear, not a was it a bug bear or a goblin.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: Something was in there.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: The the main one of the first bosses is in there, yeah.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: Plus, some other like smaller people you fight, plus you gotta rescue the one guy that's in there.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so there's like there's a lot of stuff right off the bat in a Kickstarter campaign.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: It's not a super easy dungeon for a low-level character.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: That's for sure.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: There are quite a few enemies in there, several things that can go wrong.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: You can drown, like, there's a lot that can happen.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Different routes that you can go.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: So, what suggestions would you guys have for this person as far as like running it?
18:00
SPEAKER_02: Because I I I think what we're what the conclusion we're coming to is it's it's kind of a mid-level.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: It can be complex depending on how you're looking at it, but it's also a fairly simple encounter for the most part.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: So, what suggestions do you guys have?
18:13
SPEAKER_00: I would say focus on the main route that that is most likely to be taken.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Even though there are multiple routes outlined, you don't necessarily have to offer them all as a DM if you don't want to.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: If you kind of want to keep it a little more simple, easier for you and the players, just give them one choice.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: I honestly what helped me was listening to like a live play podcast that did it, and just hearing like the way that they did it was helpful as well.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: And I think that kind of goes back to a mantra, so to speak, that we've said in several episodes is like listen to other people play, watch other people play.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: Like anytime you can consume that sort of stuff, it's just gonna help you be a better DM and a better player.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: Just helps you understand the game better.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: So uh this question, a little bit more serious than some other ones that we've had tonight so far.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: But uh, what do you do if you have a player in your party that's been a DM before and is making some snide comments like, if I was the DM, I would do this.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: How do you handle that?
19:16
SPEAKER_02: That's a tough question.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: Take a deep breath.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that's step one.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Step one, yes.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Don't escalate.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and know that it doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong if you're the DM.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: This is your campaign.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you get to make the choices and you get to adjudicate the rules or ignore the rules.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: That's your choice.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: It's your world.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: And if you end up with a rules lawyer on the other side of the table, even if they're not a former DM, sometimes you might just have a rules lawyer.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you're gonna have to remind them, hey, you know, I know that's what the book says, but yeah, this is what works for this campaign, or I've decided that we're gonna play differently in this setting, or even you know what, you guys are on a roll, and I didn't want to disrupt the story.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: I I I think like if if you want something that says that to back you up in that situation, there's that paragraph right at the beginning beginning of the dungeon master's manual that basically says these books are guidelines only.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: This is your game, run it how you want to run it, your decision is the final decision.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: So it's like i even if it's just showing them that, it's like this is my game, this is how I want to run it, and that's how it's gonna be.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: The decision I make on whatever is the final decision, just the way it's gonna be.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: I will say also though, take a good look at your party because I feel like if you're in a party with friends, especially, and you respect each other, you're probably not making those kinds of comments.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: We have all DM'd, we do not make those comments to each other.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: No, Phil Brad and I.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: No, never.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: And actually, there are times in campaigns where I'll look at Phil and I'm like, does that make sense?
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Should I ask for something else in that situation?
20:56
SPEAKER_02: And then we just we trust each other and we we're good enough friends that we're just like we take each other's advice.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: And that's the ultimate goal, right?
21:03
SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to be a group storytelling game, like that is the whole point.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think as each of us have gotten into DMing, it's helped us do that.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, well, can I make this check instead?
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Of course you can, right?
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Like you're respectful about it, you're like, I can make a cake case for this.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, that makes sense, okay.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Sure, roll a religion check for that history, whatever it looks like, whatever it was.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: And I would let them like suggest things to you, like Phil said, but and not just be completely you are the DM and you're an you're a power hungry DM, but it's you with the players, so let them have some say in it as well, but in the end, you're the DM.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what, realistically, too, like if they called you on a rule and you mess it up and you want to fix it, just admit to it and be like, hey, you know what, you're right, but you know, thank you for letting me know, and I'll course.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Correct next time and go on your way.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Like that's okay to do too.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: No one's perfect.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a balance between all of those things.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do the same thing every single time.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Do a mix.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Keep it, keep it light, be open and transparent with your players too.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: When you need to be, but also hide things.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: You're there.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we're gonna stick with one more serious question before we lighten things back up.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: But but this one is kind of important, I feel like.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: And it says, hey y'all, I've been DMing the same party for about three years, and I recently had my first baby, and I don't want to shortchange my players.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: I do prepare a lot and do a ton of writing.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: I intend to continue the campaign, but now I just want to push the story along and bring it to a conclusion, and I feel bad about it.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: Help, please.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Oof.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: We have all been there.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: We've all got little ones uh and have struggled through some some droughts of playing campaigns.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, uh, when those little ones come.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: And it's okay.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh if you need to take a little bit of a step back, focus on your family first.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: But don't say never or don't say you're done.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: Because this is your new routine.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get settled into it, and you might find a balance that you can come back to it.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would you know encourage this person too to not rush their story to a conclusion.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: Don't shortchange yourself like that.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: If you put in the time and you've been writing this story, do you know what you may not have time with the newborn at home to run your sessions, but you might find yourself when you're awake in the middle of the night with that baby, with some time to write.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: So use it if you have, or if you can, and just communicate with your party.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Be open with them.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: If you guys have been playing for three years, they're gonna be understanding.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: They're invested at that point.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: They don't want you to shoot, they don't want you to conclude it either.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, so we're gonna lighten this back up a little bit.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, do you guys use milestone or XP for leveling up?
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Milestone.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Milestone.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: I think I tried to use XP once, and then as a DM, I'm like, I don't want to keep track of this crap.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's something we touch on.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh Ross, do you want to explain the difference really quick?
24:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so milestone leveling up would be like you hit a certain point in the story or something, and then your DM just says, okay, you are now at level two, and then everybody essentially advances at the same rate.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: With XP leveling up, as you do things, kill monsters, there's a certain amount of XP that's part of that, and then you divvy your DM, divvy that XP up among your party.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: So then you run into instances where certain people may level up faster than other people.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I will say, now that I've explained that, that's partially why I don't like it.
24:48
SPEAKER_02: I would much rather a party progress together than at different rates.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: The only thing that I find myself sometimes falling into if I'm not careful is forgetting to level parties up.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: And I'm guilty of that, as you guys know, I've done it before.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of your newer published works are milestone works.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: Like you'll hit a certain section, they say the players should advance to level five before proceeding to the next chapter, right?
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Like it's written in there.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: One thing that uh I find challenging about XP instead of milestone is you might think, oh, well, they defeated Challenge Rating 2 monster, they get this much XP, and yeah, it kind of works like that.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: But as soon as you start introducing like multiple monsters, you start bringing in like multipliers and things for XP, and it gets kind of messy.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: It's very hairy, like there's just a lot to it.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: There is, and social interactions don't necessarily get XP assigned to them, so you kind of have to figure that out yourself as well.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: And it milestone is just easier as a DM.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna find something to cut, cut XP tracking and just do milestone.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: I would say though that I'm not totally against having players level up at different times.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: I agree with that.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Like if it was a session or two off from some people going up a level from other people in the party, I could see that working.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think the XP is a bigger issue when um, like Phil was saying, it's mostly combat focused.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: It is, sure.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: And so you're gonna be encouraging your players to just smash things and kill things, and that kind of lends itself to certain characters more than others.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it can be a little bit of an unfair advantage and kind of railroad your style of play.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it almost pigeonholes you into like a specific kind of campaign.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: You don't get all the pillars, you just get combat.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: Right, for sure.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so as we uh reach toward the end of the episode here, um, this one's an interesting one, and it has to do with some DD lore.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if we're gonna be able to speak to the DD lore, but we can at least talk about this happening.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: And the qu the question is Has a demon ever sought redemption in DD lore?
26:57
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if there has or hasn't been something like that, but I think this is an interesting conversation for us to have really quick because having just run the descent into a vernace campaign, we actually redeemed a demon, or was she a devil?
27:10
SPEAKER_02: She was devil.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: She was an arch devil, uh, in Zariel.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: But I think this question is focusing more on like an a devil or demon like seeking it on their own.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: So let's let's just discuss this a little bit.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, uh do you think this would be a cool storyline to follow?
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Maybe how how would you work this in?
27:31
SPEAKER_02: Because it's not really something that a PC can do necessarily, player character.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: I think actually it has to be because by their nature, demons and devils, their whole purpose for life or the what they desire would never lead them to a position where they would want redemption ever.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: It would have to say take some sort of a PC catalyst or something to make that change.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Because they're innately evil characters, and I don't see that in their nature.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: And I th I think it can happen over time.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's like a one-roll thing.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: It needs to happen over multi-sessions.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, and maybe it's uh you work your way up to it.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the things that I've seen that I really like is um a podcast that we all really love, Dungeons and Daddies.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, they do a thing where they will have a social encounter and it's a way that's or it's a positive and negative.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: So you get first of five.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: If you have a positive encounter with somebody, you get a plus.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: If it goes negative, it's a minus.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: And that can have uh those can diverge, and if whichever reaches the whatever number five first is the way that person goes, and if you have that happen several times, like going in the positive for that demon, eventually maybe they can be redeemed.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: I think that would be a fun, fun way to play some things.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: That would too.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: I guess yeah, I might recant a little bit on my uh other statement too.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: So not maybe just PC interaction.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, like you could as a DM introduce deity interactions too, right?
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, try to recruit one over, you know, or something along the lines to turn the tide in the war, that kind of thing could definitely happen too.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: I I I think this could be a way where like if you wanted to play an evil character, because we talk a lot how like typically evil characters don't fit into campaigns because their motives are very different, but if you wanted to be an evil character, but your your personal arc is you are seeking redemption, and then that allows you to interact with your party a lot better and choose good instead of the evil, that could be a fun way to play it.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: That would be cool.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: So I d I don't know.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know if there are actually any demon-like like uh classes out there, are there?
29:57
SPEAKER_02: Like Tieflings are are have like infernal ancestry, yeah, and bloodlines, but they're not demons or devils like proper, proper, yeah, in that sense.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: I I think there's some fun to be had there if you wanted to try it out.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Interesting question.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, if you if you know of any DD lore storylines where uh a demon or a devil has uh sought redemption, please let us know in the comments.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: I I would love to hear about that and listen to that.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I do think that's gonna wrap up this episode of Bards and Barrels.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you can listen to past episodes of the show anywhere podcasts can be found.
30:32
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30:34
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30:40
SPEAKER_02: We'll see you soon.