Latest / Finding New Waters / The Transformative Power of Adventure Recovery with Tim Walsh

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The Transformative Power of Adventure Recovery with Tim Walsh · Finding New Waters

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Let us give them the experience as an experience not as a
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clinical thing. It's like and yes we have
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clinical support, we have you know clinicians on our team.
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We have you know we we say we're a clinically informed outdoor
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education program, right. And we take it very seriously
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and we, we work with some pretty complicated clients.
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The client I'm going to Maine with is on the spectrum and is,
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you know, has been in and out of, you know, some significant
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hospitalizations. Yeah.
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And they keep coming back to me saying I want more.
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All right. Well, let's go.
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Good afternoon. My name is Graham Durge and I'm
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the Founder and CEO of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, NC.
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Welcome to our weekly podcast, Finding New Waters.
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Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource
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for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a
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loved 1, struggling with substance use, or mental health.
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When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most
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people have no idea where to turn, we hope to shed some light
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into what is often the darkest hour for many families.
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I'm joined here today by our Executive Director, Justin
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McClendon and Tim Walsh, who is the founder of Adventure
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Recovery. Tim is an outdoor educator and
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recovery coach trainer who specializes in guiding people
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through the external and internal wilderness.
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Over the last 25 years, he's founded and LED numerous
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programs and institutions and youth development in the
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addictions, recovery and prevention fields.
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He offers individualized support for those seeking purpose and
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spiritual development. Tim advises and develops
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experiential education, adventure therapy and substance
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misuse awareness programs for private schools, youth
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development programs, treatment centers, and national
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conferences. He's a pioneer in the field of
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adventure based counseling AS and was one of the founding team
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members of the Mountainside Treatment Center and served as
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Executive Director for Newport Academy.
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Tim has earned instructor trainer levels of certification
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in ACA, Whitewater Canoe Pro, Rescue, Rescuer, First Aid and
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CPR. And lifeguarding as well as
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certifications in advanced Swift water rescue and whitewater
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kayak instruction, Willingness first responder recovery
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coaching, and adventure based counseling.
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He studies various wisdom, traditions, healing rights, and
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practical tools from elders and practitioners from both Western
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and Eastern disciplines. With reverence and respect for
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ceremony and ritual. Tim crafts a tailored approach
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to the personal transformative process, creating healing
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experiences for individuals of all ages.
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Tim, welcome and thanks for being with us today.
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Thank you Grandpa. Thanks Justin for inviting me.
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It's really exciting to be part of this podcast and what you
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guys are doing. Absolutely, man.
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Well you know I wanted to start out today obviously Tim and and
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I actually go back a little ways and and I'll just kind of kind
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of qualify here for a little bit.
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And you know I've had some first hand experience with his work.
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I had a family member back in the day a couple years ago.
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Where you know we were connected with Tim through some people and
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he was able to step in and and do some work with his family
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member and really just had a profound experience.
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And for me in particular this is a super I'm, I'm super
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passionate about this topic in, in general right.
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And I think that, you know, in my story, in my kind of
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recovery, you know, being out in in wilderness, being in nature
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has been. Probably like the most important
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thing that I do on a daily basis, whether it's exercise,
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movement, you know, when I was living in Florida, I was fly
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fishing on a daily basis. So I really, really, you know, I
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love the the power of that and I love what you're doing.
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And maybe just tell us a little bit about adventure recovery and
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the work that you do and we can kind of go from there.
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Absolutely. First of all, the apologies for
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the mouthful of the bio. No, I always, I always feel like
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that that's kind of a little bit too much information.
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But it's all it's all great information.
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To them, yeah, it's all good information.
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It is. It is great information to know,
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yeah, I'm proud of the work I've been allowed to do and you know
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and the certainly the people I've been gifted the opportunity
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to work with and to help along their journey.
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So it means a lot and you know you just mentioning my
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relationship with your family and and as a as a dad, as a
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husband, as a brother, as an uncle, as a son, you know keep
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checking all those family titles.
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Anytime a family reaches out or a professional reaches out to
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refer a family to me and and AR it's it's overwhelming quite
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frankly and I'm sure you guys relate to that tremendously.
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In fact I know you do that it's it's such a gift to to be part
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of the journey at any point And so for that I thank you and and
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you know knowing that it is is an ongoing process right for
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everybody and you never know when people are going to reach
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out and need a little bit more support, ourselves included.
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Right. So, so adventure, recovery.
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And you know, all the accolades there.
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Whatever the credentials I've earned, I I leave one out of
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that bio, which is the one that's most important to me,
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which is my most important credential is that I'm a
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professional adolescent. So I've never grown up and a lot
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of my friends consider me the ultimate version of Peter Pan.
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I may look old and grizzled. That's just the mileage, you
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know, showing. It's I I truly have embraced my
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own recovery journey from day one as a gift.
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And I'm not going to waste any time.
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I'm not going to waste any of it sitting around and I'm, I'm just
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going to go after it. So for me, this process, you
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know, really began as a kid. I was the kid who you just
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couldn't, it couldn't sit still. This is, you know, I'm 53 years
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old. So growing up in a, you know,
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suburban community, right on the edge of a urban community, being
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in that very interesting, you know, blue collar lifestyle
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surrounded by all the different inequities if you will, people
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super, super wealthy on one side of town, people super, super,
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you know, poor on the other side of town and you know, kind of
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being rights back in the middle. And for me, every little pocket
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of woods in the neighborhood, you know, or the surrounding
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neighborhoods was vital. I grew up on the coast of
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Connecticut down at Fairfield County and you know, getting to
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jump into the into the Long Island Sound, you know, take off
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onto the Norwalk Islands and camp out.
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These were these were just easy escapes, you know, that I got to
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have as a kid and then I went through some traumatic
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experiences with some loss. I had a very dear family member
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passed away suicide and it impacted me very, very
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powerfully and it was literally like a switch went off at me
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where I went from being a pretty straightforward, good, good kid
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kind of thing, you know, doing what I was told to, all bets are
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off. It was, yeah.
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I was raised in an Irish Catholic household, went to
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church every Sunday. It coincided the same time of
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having, you know, gone through my confirmation and my dad said
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it's your choice now and it's like, alright, peace, no more
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church for me. And then my my cousin dying by
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suicide was, you know the true nail in the coffin of I'm done
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with this religious thing and you know this is all you know,
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baloney. And it was very soon after that
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that I was, you know, given the opportunity to start using
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substances and the 1st and and up to that point where my cousin
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passed away, I had an adamant perspective of what substance
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use disorder looks like. Alcoholism, drug addiction.
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But my family's riddled with it. And you know, I'm one of four
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siblings. I'm the only one that's
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thankfully who's, you know, lucky enough to carry the flag.
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But they, the, the surrounding family members of both sides
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were just, you know, a lot of struggle, a lot of stress
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involved. And when, when my cousin died,
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it was just like, well, whatever, all the rules don't
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apply anymore, you know, this is, this isn't cool.
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I'm not. I'm not with it.
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So the next opportunity to, you know, use substances, it was
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alcohol, marijuana and boom, off to the races.
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And for me, it was a very profound impact.
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The way substances affected me. I was overwhelmed with a sense
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of peace and ease and soon with a sense of overwhelming sense
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that I'm going to puke my guts up.
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But but didn't remember that. Right.
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That part just, yeah. Magic.
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Beautiful. Compartmentalization.
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Yes, yes. The, you know, the
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compartmentalization, the euphoric recall of, oh, I don't
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remember getting sick. So from 11 years old to 20
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years, two years old, that was it.
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That was my entire purview and nothing else mattered.
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And I just just like right off the edge and full bore head in,
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you know, I'm going and like so many stories we hear of the
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impacts of untreated mental illness and untreated substance
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use disorder, I was a train wreck, you know, And then I just
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affected everything and everyone around me negatively.
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There was very little positive reinforcement going on, not for
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lack of people trying. You know, my family did what
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they could with what they knew. The school system did what they
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could with with what they knew. The legal system did what they
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could with what they knew. And ultimately, at 22 years old,
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that landed on the doorstep of High Watch Farm, which we were
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talking about before we kicked off.
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And yeah, I couldn't imagine it being in a any better place at
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22 because that place was simple.
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Make your bed. Do your chore, go to 312 step
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meetings a day, stay away from the opposite sex, and Oh yeah,
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don't drink or use drugs. And there's a lot of history at
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high Watch as well. You know, when that's right, the
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founders of Alcoholics Anonymous and and all that.
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You want to touch on that? Yeah, I I used to joke and say I
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went straight to the Colombians for my cocaine, so why not go
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straight to high watch for my recovery, right.
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Yeah, the Highwatch Farm is is credited with the factually and
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and historically accurate. But the first place that was
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using the 12 steps as a form of treatment and it was done so by
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people using the 12 steps as a form of their own personal
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recovery. So it's a true retreat model
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first of its kind in that sense where Alcoholics Anonymous and
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the Cope and the founders basically Bill Wilson and Marty
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Mann is considered to be the first woman in a a were were
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presented the the the farm that was called Hope Farm and the
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ministry of the high Watch as as a gift and and at that point
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actually they knew they can't a a shouldn't own property so they
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said no no no we're we're not going to do that but you're
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welcome to use this model and it's been active since and that
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that's me and and what we were sharing earlier so that catch
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the the viewers or the listeners up is yesterday I got to present
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the topic of nature as healer and the and the science behind
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how nature heals and how being outdoors and how outdoor
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activities now and outdoor skills development is a healing
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path for mental illness and and substance use disorders and and
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to do that in a room full of clinicians right.
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And or getting credit for being there and I'm standing up there
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literally in my bare feet because that's how I present.
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Yeah. And and and just being
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overwhelmed. This is this is where it
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started. You know, I got to walk out the
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door every day and go down to the Kent Falls and exhaust
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myself physically. I'd run down through the woods
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down to the falls, back to the top.
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And I'd sit at the top of the falls and I'd listen and I'd
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watch and I'd look around and I got this a full year cycle of
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change. I wasn't seeing it in me.
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You know, I'm not nearly as clearly as I saw it around me.
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So it really affected me that way to be witness to the fact
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that oh, right. Nature doesn't really, you know,
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it's not waiting for you to, you know then that the world is
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moving forward and what are you going to do, you know?
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And I got to stay there for 364 days because at the third week,
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which was gifted, by the way, in my third week was gifted to me
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by an anonymous person who paid for my extension of three weeks.
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And in that third week, one of the cooks got drunk and the guy
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around the kitchen said, hey, you're a cook, here's an apron,
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you know, and they put me, they put me on the payroll as a cook,
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you know, And for 364 days I got to be in protective custody, you
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know, live in. And and that was the coolest
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thing about it back then is you lived with the clock, you know,
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with the residents. And the only difference was, you
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know, if I wasn't in a meeting, I was, I was in the kitchen or,
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you know, run around the woods. Some pretty good accountability.
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Yeah. Yeah, I was.
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It was. And it was so simple, right?
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You know, it was, it was so. And I needed that.
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You know, I know there's a lot of advancements that have
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happened in the field of mental health.
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And what you guys are doing particularly just blows my mind.
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And I love it. For me, at that moment in my
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life, man, it's just like, in fact when they handed me the big
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book of a a big the Alcoholics Anonymous, they're like read
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this, cracked it open, you know, and what?
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Yeah. And luckily for me, it was a
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third edition and one of the guys just flipped towards the
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back and there was a story in there called Join the Tribe.
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And it's a story of a Mick Mack Indian or Native American who
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it's it's written in broken English, you know that I'm son
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of big chief, you know. And and it it's this really
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simple. I think it's literally the three
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pages and I haven't read it in a long time it's no longer in the
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new 4th edition. But and it turns out this guy is
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like a local legend too. Right.
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And recovery space in the 12 step rooms and I've actually
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been sponsored by guys who sponsored or he's sponsored.
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Correct. So yeah.
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But it was it was like oh I can read this you know it's simple.
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It's 3 pages and it was a story of, you know, recovery.
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And it just so happened to be as even as a kid, like I had always
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been attracted to what I didn't know that.
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But now, now, now now is, you know, indigenous wisdom,
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Indigenous healing practices and Indigenous spirituality.
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So it just like all that for that first year was just magic.
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And the other piece that's really important, why this is
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all leading up to why Essential recovery.
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My first sponsor in NAA was an outdoor guy.
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Now he, he actually was a ranch hand in Montana for decades
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sober. And then he came back east to be
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a cart, you know, to go back to carpentry.
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And he was actually working at, you know, high watch, doing a
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remodeling job. And, you know, he'd sit in the
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kitchen every morning, have coffee with me and talk about
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recovery. And then he was like, hey, yeah,
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you're 22. There's no way you're going to
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make it if you know you're stuck in church basements for the rest
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of your life. So let's go do some fun shit.
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Yeah. And he's a guy who said, let's
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go mountain biking. All right, cool.
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Let's go rock climbing. All right, cool.
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Let's go whitewater kayaking. All right, cool.
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And let's go skydiving. Yep.
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Hell, yeah. You know, and it just, that was
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that was our relationship. Yeah.
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Yeah. If to get connected with
17:15
somebody think that at that point, I mean it's, you know,
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I've shared with you personally how my, you know, my story.
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You know, I had that awareness pretty while I was in treatment.
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I just, I had this, you know, this gift, you know, that was, I
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feel like was given to me, you know, by God or some sort of
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spiritual entity. And you know, I just had the
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awareness that like life is not over because I can't get high
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anymore and look at all the amazing shit that I can do now.
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And you know, that was it for me.
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It was like picking up a fly rod going, you know, now I, you
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know, mountain bike a ton and and just every morning try to
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get out in the woods first thing.
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You know, we've got some great, you know, kind of trails around
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our house so I can go do some trail running that right out the
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door. And I mean that's just magic
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starting your day like that is there's just no better way.
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So, but not everybody has that. Has that connection while
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they're in treatment, you know, and especially young adults,
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which I think primarily don't, you know, you're working with a
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lot of young adults and it's hard to crack through that shell
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sometimes. Yeah, it's tough.
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I mean, I think there could be a lot of, you know, just lack of
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insight or not. It just, you know, especially
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young young guys and and girls just, you know, not even knowing
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what they want, right. I mean, not even having any idea
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who they are, who they want to be, what they like, what their
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interests are. So it could be really difficult
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I think and. You know, I think if if some, a
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young person in recovery has the opportunity to to have some of
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those experiences in an early recovery, I mean that can be
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huge because it can hopefully open them up to some ideas that
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they haven't even, you know, pondered for their self.
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Yeah, Tim, I have. I'm just wondering, I don't want
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to maybe jump too far ahead of your story or maybe you're
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getting to this, but you're talking about you know that year
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and and your opportunities to be able to have these experiences.
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You mentioned, you know, sitting at the top of that waterfall and
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just noticing things change. And I guess my question for you
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is, I'm sure it was a collection of a lot of things, but what do
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you feel like? What was it the essence of made?
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Made that shift for you or helped you make that shift for
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yourself? Ah man.
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I think ultimately the the greatest gift of that overall
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experience was just guide, clean house, help others.
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For lack of a better term, it was it was literally embedded in
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my daily practice, right, My daily routine.
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I had, you know, talk about that, that deep seated
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resentment that I had against this concept of a higher power,
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specifically with what happened with my cousin and that actually
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healed in like like a very a beautiful moment.
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I was locking up the place at night.
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One night is literally walking through and turning off all the
20:02
lights and the whole facility and you know, walking from
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building to building. And I decided it was a brilliant
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night. Stars were full force.
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And I sat in a lawn chair and I was just looking up and I had
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this just out of nowhere. I thought, you know, I realized
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my cousin, you know, died of suicide because he was suffering
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and he didn't know there was any other way out.
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And that was his. That was his moment, right?
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And I I just had this overwhelming sense of, like,
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that resentment that I carried against him, against God,
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against the world. It just, like, left me.
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And you know, this the kind of shit I tell people all the time.
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You can't believe any of this when it comes out of my mouth,
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until it happens to you. And the only what's going to
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happen to you is if you go outside of what happened
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literally in that moment as I had that you know exhale of it's
21:00
good like falling off of me, a shooting star lit up this guy
21:05
across the entire like just right just to rise in line to
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horizon line. And I was like alright at that
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point I'd yeah I had a few of those experiences happen where
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yeah I just just this kind of do what you're told mentality like
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you know do this kid, do this kid, do this and that.
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That's what I got it there. It's just this try this, try
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this try this. And and then in my free time
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knowing like I can't sit still. I'm not you know I'm not going
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to go read in the corner. I I'm I'm going.
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So I just that exhausting my body to sit and let my brain
21:44
absorb so that that when I'm getting out is the trust God
21:49
component came really quickly for me because it I had these
21:54
monumental shifts occur around perception of what that is
21:58
right. And then the the clean house
22:01
part also became very clear because my family started to you
22:05
know creep back in and trust me. And because I was, you know,
22:11
beginning to earn that trust back, right.
22:13
Getting keys to churches, to be a coffee maker and then a
22:17
meeting, You know, there were, there were these really cool
22:21
moments where I began to realize, oh, it's because I'm
22:24
cleaning up here. You know, I'm, I'm not making a
22:27
mess anymore. And I'm starting to own the mess
22:29
that I made in the past and then the helping others.
22:32
That was daily routine. My job every morning was to make
22:35
breakfast and every and it was, it was short order, cook style
22:38
and you come to the window and hey, man, good morning.
22:41
What can I get you for breakfast, right.
22:43
And what a gift. You know, to be able to just
22:45
look people in the eye who are literally shaken.
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Yeah, I would have to bring people their place.
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I had to feed one guy one time and to feed him and his peas
22:54
were going all out of place and it just like.
22:58
So those three, you know, attributes just, you know,
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testaments of recovery were just embedded in my daily life and
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and they weren't forced, right. None of it was forced.
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It was just like, here's your opportunity, man.
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You know, silver platter, go for it.
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It's cool. Yeah, it's amazing.
23:17
And you know we actually were, I was just talking with a client
23:20
about this this morning as well and it like what what kind of I
23:24
got from from what you just shared was like the simplicity,
23:27
simplicity of what you were doing right and and really just
23:30
slowing down you know and just focusing on these simple tasks
23:35
at hand, getting into that routine.
23:38
But also the humility of you know, being a shorter cook and
23:42
and doing something you've never done before and servicing people
23:45
and being there to do that is just so powerful.
23:47
And I mean that's the magic of of the program in a A at the end
23:51
of the day, right is is being of service and giving back to
23:54
others you know and and it's a lot of a lot of times hard for
23:57
people to like get to that that place thinking there's so much
23:59
to do before you kind of get there.
24:01
But yeah, it's so powerful and and such an important part of
24:05
this early process, you know? Yeah.
24:09
What's wild too is I actually left there almost a pastry chef
24:13
to make like, you know, like that.
24:15
It was, it was like, I know how I know how to run a grill.
24:17
I know how to run a line. I know, you know, I grew up in
24:20
restaurants, basically. And so I was like, what's the
24:23
one thing I never did? And I I never did desserts.
24:25
So that was like my thing. I just like jumped into making
24:29
desserts because I do breakfast and I kind of take a break to
24:31
lunch, serve lunch and then take a break and then come back to
24:34
cook dinner. But it's, you know the the get
24:40
that, you know, I want to get back to you.
24:42
Also the fact that I had the sponsor who's like let's go do
24:45
fun shit, you know, in fact that's our that's our pitch to
24:48
all our clients. You know anybody who reaches out
24:52
to they are especially the the younger adults, right, or the OR
24:57
the adolescents even, they're often like you know who's this?
25:02
Yeah, I'm 6 to 220 pounds and when you see me coming, you
25:07
know, it can be intimidating, right?
25:10
You're a teenager and you've heard all the stories about
25:12
gooning and you know, people get snatched out of their beds.
25:16
So I just, you know, I walk up and say, hey man, I'm going to
25:19
go do some fun shit you want to come with?
25:22
It's not, it's an invitation. It's not an obligation.
25:27
And yeah, and that's, I mean that's everybody on the team is
25:31
literally trained that way. That's our invitation.
25:33
Everybody like we're going no matter what.
25:35
And if it can't, if there's a cancellation last minute or
25:38
client changes their mind or client drives the bus, if they
25:41
don't want to do what we said we're going to do, that's OK.
25:43
We'll do something else, you know, And that flexibility is
25:47
really, really important in that early recovery.
25:49
But once the decision's made, let's go right let's let's stick
25:52
to the commitment until nature dictates otherwise.
25:57
And that's really amazing, because nature, right, is
26:00
neutral. I tell you all time, nature
26:03
cares very, very deeply about us being successful.
26:05
That's the that is the objective of nature.
26:08
To succeed in life. That's the objective of nature.
26:12
And at the same time, it doesn't give a shit about you.
26:15
It doesn't care how you feel, what you think, how tired you
26:19
are, how cold you are, wet, you know, and just go, right.
26:23
Either go or stop. It's it's pretty clear in those
26:26
moments, right. So the the, you know, getting
26:30
back to that sponsor and him saying like let's go, let's not
26:34
sit around, you know, let's not wait for someone to hand you any
26:37
of this stuff. Let's not get trapped in in the
26:41
mindset right let's let's get into action and let's let's
26:47
build a life right. Worse.
26:48
Never. There's no reason to go back if
26:53
you know how to go forward and if you have something that to go
26:57
forward for. So for me, the first thing was
27:00
snowboarding. Like that was the first thing.
27:02
I just was like, this is it. I love this.
27:04
I'm going to do this. I'm going to, in fact, I was
27:06
going like going for pro actually as a yeah, as a border
27:11
crosser. And I got and I got hurt of
27:13
course, because that's, you know, the other part.
27:16
I have no off switch, so you know, but but the experience
27:21
with just it brought me into outdoor leadership.
27:24
That's how I got Bridge the Gap. So when I left High Watch, I
27:27
went into a snowboard shop. I was actually a ski shop.
27:30
That was just first year ever, you know, first you shop in town
27:34
selling snowboard and I went, you know, I went home and got to
27:38
stay at home for a couple months before I moved into a house with
27:41
a bunch of silver guys, right. And that was my first job out
27:45
outside of high Watch, where I got to, you know, sell
27:48
snowboards. Yeah, we built a snowboard shop
27:51
in this really cool sport shop. And then all these others, just
27:55
that they sold everything. Kayaks, you know, climbing gear,
27:58
camping gear. And so anytime there wasn't
28:01
anybody interested in snowboard, I'd be wandering around the
28:04
store bugging all the guys, you know, the counters.
28:06
Like, yeah, let me see this. What's this thing?
28:09
Picking up a cab, You know, try a cab like, oh, this is cool.
28:11
What do you do with this? You know, you stick it in the
28:13
crack in the rock. Why do you do that?
28:16
Because when you fall, it holds you.
28:18
And that's a that's a good job for a gearhead like you, I would
28:21
assume too right. You got it.
28:24
Yeah. That we've warned all the guides
28:26
you know our specializations training people in recovery to
28:30
come. Outdoor leaders, right.
28:32
That's that's the foundation of our model is because most of the
28:37
big name outdoor leadership schools won't accept someone in
28:40
an early recovery for good reason.
28:44
You know they're not set up for it, right.
28:46
And I would also and still do caution people who are in
28:50
recovery, no matter how long they're in recovery.
28:53
If you're going to go apply for a Knowles or Outward Bound
28:56
instructor or you know semester program, be honest in your
29:01
application because there's a reason they don't specialize in
29:06
our population because we we're we're different.
29:11
Fundamentally when it comes to socialization and it comes to,
29:14
you know, social anxieties and what's great about recovery
29:19
communities is you realize very quickly I'm safe, safe space,
29:24
right. I'm, I'm, I'm welcome here, Dan.
29:27
And everyone here speaking my language understands me.
29:30
You get into these outdoor leadership schools and these
29:32
people are charging their whole lives.
29:33
They haven't hiccup at all. Right.
29:35
Right. And a lot of cases, not all the
29:37
cases, but in a lot of cases and then all of a sudden you're
29:40
like, Oh well, I got what hell. And do I belong here.
29:44
And skills wise, you could be just going right right up top to
29:48
the top of the class, but you're not getting that daily check in,
29:52
right? You're not getting that
29:53
community. You're missing out on that
29:55
piece. And then if you're a young
29:58
person and you're already working with the identity crisis
30:00
and the identity issues associated with early recovery
30:03
and where you fit and what you've lost and what you're, you
30:06
know, where are you, it, it takes its toll.
30:10
So ultimately, having watched people coming in and out of
30:14
those schools and struggle when they leave with that whole
30:19
experience, not all will the opposite.
30:22
People just thrive and keep going.
30:23
But it's what really got me, you know charged up to do something
30:28
different and and you know, and I get people from those
30:32
communities saying like wait a minute you're training people
30:35
like straight out of treatment. Like I was like I trained people
30:38
who are in treatment. You know I don't give a shit if
30:41
they're interested, I'm going to take them, you know.
30:43
And it's it's like just like a client.
30:46
The only rule I have around substance use is you can't go
30:48
out hide because it's a risk management issue.
30:51
You know you can't be under the influence.
30:54
So so your reason I'm meeting? Really.
30:57
Where they're at, right. And for us, it's not a saying,
31:01
right? Yeah, it's not just the saying.
31:03
It's not a tagline for the website.
31:04
Right. It's rich.
31:05
For real, Yeah. And what's what's most important
31:09
for me is that if I say it's Jedi training, which is taking
31:12
you from the dark side to the light side, you've got all these
31:15
skills, man. There's no point in not using
31:17
them. You are.
31:18
You worked really hard to, you know, to to work over, you know,
31:23
yourself, right? Let alone everybody else around
31:26
you. Let's put that to good use.
31:28
So what happens if it's a miracle?
31:30
I believe truly it's like this miracle of awareness that some
31:34
of the best risk managers I've ever worked with are people with
31:38
the most horrific stories because they are.
31:43
They see so many angles that like the quote UN quote normal
31:48
person who hasn't had a lot of stress in their life.
31:51
Vigilant. Yep, just yeah, exactly.
31:54
The hyper vigilance comes in then, and it's wild.
31:58
It's interesting because we actually, we've got a staff
32:00
member here too that you mentioned that and Andy, that
32:02
word detox. Obviously you've got people that
32:04
are you know always trying to sneak things in substances and
32:08
and whatnot and and you know it's it's not that often but
32:12
whenever it happens we have this one staff member that he and
32:15
he's he's got a a long history we'll say right.
32:19
But he always knows like the minute something's up.
32:23
Yeah, you're right. His hyper vigilance is just
32:26
incredible and he's like something's off and and like 99%
32:30
of the time he's correct, right? And so forth.
32:34
Usually long before. 100% Yeah. So yeah, that's funny, is what?
32:40
Having those people who've had that, that, that experience,
32:44
right? Yeah, right.
32:46
Lived experience is to me, it's not the most important thing,
32:50
right? It's not the most important
32:52
thing, but man, it's pretty important, right?
32:56
For a person who's brand new to earn trust, to gain trust, right
33:01
to gather trust to to to truly be affected profoundly.
33:07
And we know this right We have very small windows of
33:09
opportunity to capture someone's attention who is struggling with
33:15
a mental health or substance use crisis.
33:18
So it's got to be compelling, right?
33:21
That window of action's got to be compelling.
33:25
And that's again, for me, like very selfishly, I I, you know, I
33:30
need to do this. This is my medicine.
33:32
This is my healing path. I have to do this.
33:35
It's not, it's not like I've tried the other way.
33:38
I've tried the you know administrative role and you know
33:43
you know C-Suite stuff and like no, you know like it's I joke
33:47
all the time. I'm the CEO and founder of AR
33:49
which I have no idea what CEO stands for in this case.
33:55
Right. Chief experiential officer maybe
33:57
I don't know. But I'm like, I'm just I am
34:00
outside every day for my own mental health and and then what
34:08
we did and the other thing that we, you know, cover a lot is, is
34:11
the skill is what's really important and don't want it.
34:14
And most people are like nature and beauty and awe, great stuff,
34:18
not knocking it all about it but the skills are what gets you
34:23
there. Skills are in this in the need
34:26
to drive like that just fundamental human condition to
34:29
become a better version of myself.
34:33
That's where the skills come in, right.
34:36
Graham, you and I were talking yesterday about this, you know,
34:40
opportunity to jump on the podcast and I'm like, I don't
34:43
know, dude, I, you know, there's 8 foot swell going off, right?
34:46
You know, Rhode Island Hurricane Lee is doing its thing and you
34:54
know, it's a it's a hard decision to make for me.
34:57
It really is to say no to that, yes to this.
35:01
And this is a huge opportunity for many, many reasons right.
35:05
To get to know you guys better and you guys get to know me
35:07
better. To you know get to know your
35:10
audience in a sense and then get to know if me and AR.
35:13
But but that swell is just so powerful for the opportunity to
35:20
present. And the beauty of it is by
35:23
saying no. Guess what new tropical
35:26
depression just popped up this morning.
35:28
It's going to be coming right up the line, right right behind Lee
35:32
and as I'm coming back from the five day with a client awesome
35:37
from Acadia, I'm going to be literally driving to coast back
35:41
and I'm going to hit every spot on the way.
35:43
That's awesome. So, so tell us a little bit
35:46
about maybe what some of the actual you know events look like
35:51
with Adventure Recovery. So you know it's, I know it's
35:53
very tailored to the clients and you know as far as length and
35:57
and kind of what you're doing and their skill set and all that
36:00
because it is it's. You know, I was, I worked with a
36:02
facility called Voyage Recovery, you know, before starting New
36:06
Waters. And you know, we did a ton of
36:08
experiential work there and we got the guys out in the water,
36:10
you know, two to three times a week and free diving and spear
36:13
fishing and all sorts of cool stuff.
36:15
And it was always interesting when you had, you know, a kid
36:18
from Manhattan, right, who had lived in a city his entire life
36:23
and had never experienced anything like that, right?
36:26
And you know, we were doing some shark diving and some kind of
36:29
out outlandish things at that time.
36:31
And I don't believe that they're doing that anymore.
36:33
But you know, obviously that's a pretty, that's a pretty big fear
36:36
factor for a lot of people. And for me, it's always been
36:39
really like the experiential stuff I think is so powerful
36:42
because it gives you creates that opportunity to like walk
36:45
through that fear, right? And then coming into the
36:47
clinical setting after and really processing that and and
36:51
and you know seeing yourself work through that and being like
36:53
wow that wasn't that bad. I, you know, I'm, I'm faced with
36:56
fear on a daily basis, but like, it's a totally fictitious,
37:00
made-up thing that, you know, we we create in our mind, right?
37:04
So. I just feel like it's so
37:06
powerful for, you know, experiential just creates these
37:10
awesome opportunities to like work on all those skills and
37:12
those tools and a beautiful setting and and build
37:15
confidence, right. And and you know, given given
37:18
that new level of confidence that they probably haven't had
37:21
ever. Absolutely, absolutely And and
37:26
regain right, regain confidence that they that they've lost
37:29
right, 100%. So, yeah, So we, we
37:32
fundamentally dropped 3 buckets, right?
37:35
We have 3 buckets of of what we offer in the world, if you will.
37:39
So one is the training, and we talked about that.
37:42
You know, we train people in recovery.
37:44
And by the way, we tell everyone, if you're not in
37:46
recovery, you're still qualified to come to an AR training.
37:49
Just be warned, our disclaimer is you'll be in recovery by the
37:52
time to leave. You'll realize, you'll realize
37:56
you have a recovery story. It's what drew you to this
37:58
training in the 1st place, right.
38:00
So that's that's our our training model and what we do is
38:03
we have a a venture recovery coach.
38:05
We have an adventure recovery guide and that we're about to
38:08
launch an adventure recovery clinician training, which is
38:13
really exciting. So that that whole thing is.
38:16
Yeah, yeah, there you go. Right.
38:18
So it's the whole thing is based on nature's healer with
38:23
technical skills development. And the technical skills again
38:26
get you further. They get you deeper, they get
38:29
you. They gave you the the, the
38:32
passion to go into the true wild right.
38:36
Which there's arguments that that doesn't exist because we've
38:39
got our fingers and our footprints everywhere.
38:42
But I I can tell you there's some places left on this planet
38:45
that are close to home that are feel real wild when you get in
38:49
there, you know, and but it takes skill to get in and get
38:51
out safely. So.
38:53
So that's our training component.
38:55
And then and that was the foundation of the whole model
38:58
and I was just like, that's what I want to do, right, with my
39:01
career experience and my personal professional
39:03
development and I want to do that.
39:06
Then, you know, those folks from that first cohort turned around
39:09
and said, OK, coach, you know, put us in And I'm like, no, no,
39:11
no, I'm not running a guide service guys.
39:13
I'm just training, you know, and they're like, well, tough.
39:15
We want, we want a job. And that's when the phone
39:19
started ringing because I'd always done this individual work
39:22
as a mentor, right, with people who were in recovery, who wanted
39:26
to become outdoor educators. So it was a natural progression
39:29
of being just taking guys out and teaching skills and, you
39:32
know, helping them to bolster skills they were learning else
39:35
elsewhere. So, you know, I was like the
39:39
phone starts ringing, you know, and this is again where I tell
39:42
people all the time, we run our entire organization based on the
39:46
principles of nature. That's a regenerative,
39:49
regenerative force in the universe on this planet that
39:54
keeps bringing forth life and opportunity in abundance.
39:57
So that's how we do it, right. So OK, phone's ringing, I guess,
40:01
like I need you now. So I can't say no.
40:04
So we put those people to work, right?
40:06
And that individual model is now like that, like that's our core,
40:10
right. That's where.
40:12
Practitioners, institutions, schools, you name it.
40:16
All these different folks out there who are working with
40:19
people who are in this process of, you know, seeking support
40:25
for their mental health and substance use, we step in as a
40:31
bolt on to any other treatment modality.
40:35
That's the coolest thing about it.
40:36
We don't conflict, right. It's like it's it's a true
40:40
complementary pathway and for some it's the only pathway.
40:44
But most they come to us from some other source and and that
40:49
one to one model is you, you connect the client to a coach or
40:54
guide. And the difference between coach
40:56
and guide as a coach is fundamental and foundational in
41:00
their skill set of navigation of the internal and external right.
41:04
So they know how to get in and out.
41:06
They know how they know the cool spots and they know how to to
41:10
enter you into that natural healer, self right.
41:14
The healer. And by the way, the nature's
41:15
healer is here as well as out there.
41:17
It's not the staff member, it's not the coach doing the healing
41:21
right. They're just got, they're just
41:23
getting in there and then and helping you see it right.
41:27
A guide steps in when it's a technical experience.
41:30
So you know the the client says I want to learn to rock climb.
41:34
I want to learn to whitewater kayak.
41:35
I want to learn to you know, Mountaineer.
41:37
I want to learn to surf. I want to learn to snowboard.
41:39
I want you know, or I want to get it back.
41:42
And that's a lot of times, right.
41:44
They they'd lost it. They had it and they lost it or
41:47
they just like, you know, I've always wanted to but been scared
41:51
to or the social anxiety component of starting something
41:54
new with a bunch of strangers. Right.
41:56
So that's the the quote UN quote core of what we're all doing in
42:02
a sense. You know pretty much every
42:03
single guide and coach on the roster is out there with
42:06
individual clients that you know some level, some that's all
42:10
they're doing and you know most of at least one and then the the
42:14
other bucket is institutional clients as we call.
42:19
So it's the same model as the individual which is choose your
42:23
own what you know, choose what you want to do.
42:24
We say how hard, how far, how long and how much, right.
42:29
So how hard do you want to work at this, right?
42:31
How far do you want to go with this?
42:34
How long do you want to go with us, you know, supporting you and
42:38
then how much you want to invest in the process.
42:40
So with an institutional client, it's the same exact pitch, which
42:45
is you want to build your own thing and you want us to
42:48
consult. Great.
42:50
I'll give you the key. If you're if you're CEO you know
42:54
executive director I'll say let's do the math 1st right.
42:57
Let's start there. You know what's the budget and
43:00
by the way what's your long term five year plan.
43:02
Not how you're going to retain the dirt bag who you're going to
43:04
want hiring, who I train who's not going to want to work for
43:06
you after he's you know burnt out for a year because he's
43:10
going to want my lifestyle not not the lifestyle of the the
43:14
closed in system that is a treatment organization or school
43:18
right. So we we do that math up front
43:21
just to help, you know, decision makers understand that the long
43:25
term investment of hiring us as a guide service as a outside
43:28
contractor pays dividends over and over and over again in a
43:32
statute because of the insurance.
43:34
It's not just because of the training, such because of the
43:36
supervisions, because the people who are best at this work are
43:40
transient by nature because like me, they got to go get their
43:43
medicine, right? Yeah.
43:45
What do you tell the guy who's a who's just a radical surfer when
43:51
you know Hurricane Lee is spinning off the coast kicking
43:53
up 8 to 12 foot swells? No, you can't go.
43:55
Right. Doesn't work.
43:57
Right. No no you.
43:58
Yeah you. Yeah 5 fact yesterday I told one
44:01
of that exact guy you should better go and he's like no no no
44:06
dude. There's this other storm coming
44:07
next week and I got this individual client and he's he
44:09
wants to go. I was like, I never mind.
44:14
So, so that that is, you know, the that side of that pitch.
44:19
But the the more important part for us with the institutional
44:22
clients is they're coming to us because you know, we're the
44:25
quote, UN quote experts, right. You know, you you hire a
44:29
clinician who specializes DBT, you hire a clinic specializes
44:33
the MDR, you hire a clinician who specializes in, you know,
44:37
attachment theory, right. So we're we're the outdoor guys,
44:41
right. And gals and we're the folks who
44:43
live this life practice these skills.
44:47
We have to maintain credentials the the requirements to maintain
44:52
outdoor credentials or move far more stringent than a lot of
44:55
other professional requirements. And people don't realize that Oh
45:00
yeah, you've got to be up to date within a year or two Max
45:03
where you have to recertify, right.
45:05
So you've got to really beyond your game.
45:09
So these are the things again that from institutional, you
45:13
know partnerships, we take care of all that and then we get to
45:17
focus on the client experience. And there's also another part of
45:21
that that's really important which is we're an outside
45:24
provider. So therefore we're a neutral
45:26
party to the client. And as you know, you guys both
45:29
know haven't been in this field and and seeing it all, there's
45:33
nothing worse than a client being told that they have to do
45:36
it or else, right. And again, this, this model
45:41
still there for us. You know, the band shows up and
45:44
they'll pour out. I'm not doing this.
45:46
That's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
45:49
You don't have to do anything but the chances you really want
45:52
to sit in the van. And and I would say probably you
45:54
really want to and no they they don't sit in the van.
45:59
All right man. I'll you know I just I'm not
46:01
climbing. All right.
46:02
Cool. Don't worry.
46:03
Just cut. Just come to the.
46:04
Rocks. Yeah, yeah.
46:06
And then they end up getting on the rocks, yeah.
46:07
They see their buddies doing it. They see their buddies get in
46:09
the water and they're like and it doesn't look like that.
46:12
That you know and and and and that that those are the real
46:15
breakthrough clients, right. I mean if you can get that right
46:19
to engage in that. So that's magic.
46:21
I had a 15 year old girl who was, you know, straight up,
46:27
tough as nails, like she got out of the band like right Came at
46:31
me. You know, I'm not doing this,
46:35
and I'm like, I I don't think you are right.
46:40
But do me a favor. Carry this rope, You know, not
46:44
doing it. It's cool.
46:45
You know, get to the rocks. Everybody put on a harness.
46:48
I'm told you I'm not doing it. I know, but I just, you know, I
46:51
need everybody to be in a harness just because there's
46:53
some points that we might have to just kind of, you know, rope
46:55
you up. All right, fine.
46:57
But I'm not doing it. That's cool.
46:59
All right. You know, you know, helmets on.
47:01
I'm not doing it. It's cool.
47:02
But, you know, rocks fall. Let's go.
47:05
Hey, do me a favor. That rope you carried, follow
47:07
me. Climb up, you know, walk around
47:09
with cliffs to the top, you know, What are we doing?
47:12
I'm like, you're just going to help me set this up?
47:14
I told you, I'm not doing it. I'm like, you're not doing it.
47:16
You're helping me set it up. It's a totally different thing.
47:18
You're cool. All right, cool.
47:19
What are you doing? Like, I'll just tie this knot.
47:21
Tie this knot. Check this out.
47:22
Check that out. Be secure.
47:25
Next thing you know, I'm like, hey, do me a favor, just kind of
47:27
lean back a little bit. Why?
47:28
I'm like, because you're in my way.
47:29
Just lean back. She sits back, like, no problem.
47:33
In her harness, right. She's hanging out in the
47:34
harness. I was like, hey, you see that
47:36
thing that you're old. Not too.
47:37
So yeah, I'm, like just kind of let the rope go through it.
47:40
What? Like this?
47:41
I'm like, yeah, like, cool. So what are what are you doing?
47:44
I'm like, got that? But you're repelling right now.
47:49
You're she's like, what? And she's literally like 6 feet
47:51
below me down the Cliff looking at me.
47:53
She's like, you mother. I told you that.
47:55
I was like, yeah, but you're doing it, you know?
47:58
And she gets to the bottom. She's like, can I do it again?
48:00
That's awesome. And that's what it's all about
48:04
and you're not going to get that clinical setting you know a lot
48:06
of times and it's like you can only do so much talk therapy,
48:10
right. You got to get these young guys
48:12
out in the field and anybody really it's true, right.
48:15
And you give them something to talk about too.
48:17
That's what we'd say in the in the institutional settings,
48:20
right. It's let us give them the
48:22
experience as an experience not as a clinical thing.
48:27
It's like and yes we have clinical support, we have you
48:30
know clinicians on our team. We have you know we we say we're
48:33
clinically informed outdoor education program, right.
48:37
And we take it very seriously and we, we work with some pretty
48:41
complicated clients. The client I'm going to Maine
48:43
with is on the spectrum and is you know has been in and out of
48:48
you know some significant hospitalizations and they keep
48:52
coming back to me saying I want more.
48:54
All right, well let's go, what's our safe space, right, Let's
48:57
define it ahead of time, right. What are and that's one of the
48:59
things about risk management One O 1 is know you're out.
49:03
So. So with these institutional
49:05
relationships we get to set that whole thing up as like this is a
49:09
life experience. This isn't because you're in
49:11
treatment. You know this is the you get to
49:14
live your life today. You get to be here.
49:16
You get to be fully embodied. Your diagnosis are irrelevant
49:20
right now. You're just here, you know, and
49:23
you're climbing and you're surfing and you're kayaking and
49:26
you're rafting and you're watching Eagles, you know, pop
49:29
up and you're, you're just seeing the coolest thing ever.
49:32
And guess what? The whole time we've been out
49:34
there, whether it's 1/2 day, full day, multi day, you're just
49:38
getting deeper and deeper into this realization that, oh right,
49:42
I don't have to think about all that other stuff while I'm out
49:45
here, right? And it's not an avoidance
49:48
therapy. It's it's actually an immersive
49:51
therapy. It's like, I get to be OK.
49:55
I get to be safe in my own skin, right?
49:58
Yeah. So yeah.
50:00
So that's the that's how we work.
50:01
Yeah, it's. Awesome.
50:03
So if let's say a family member or a client wanted to reach out
50:07
to you, So what does that process look like?
50:09
Do they just call you guys directly or like what do those
50:11
conversations look like? So for most of our individual
50:16
clients come straight through a practitioner of some kind,
50:19
right. So that's a it's a direct link
50:21
cuz we have these great working relationships.
50:25
So that's not the only way but that's vast majority of codes
50:29
because we don't do any kind of like big advertising or anything
50:31
like that. And it's important to us too
50:35
because we bought the individual client to be able to tell their
50:38
own story to their guide right as they see fit.
50:43
And but at the same time, it's important to have some of the
50:45
background information, right, to make, you know a good
50:49
assessment of what is the best first step.
50:52
So most people will speak to Josh Flaherty, our Executive
50:56
Director and he's also a partner in AR and also former client of
51:00
AR he and he's in LMSW and he typically does for most East
51:09
Coast clients. He does the initial assessment,
51:12
which is a walk in the woods and right.
51:16
And that's and it's designed that way so that the client
51:18
understands from very first interaction that they get to
51:21
choose where they go and how they're going to get there.
51:25
So here's the map, where do you want to go on the map, how which
51:27
trilogies you want to take. And at every intersection they
51:30
look at us and go which way. You know, I don't know, you got
51:32
the map, map. It's your journey first long for
51:35
the walk, right. So that that's that experience.
51:39
And then and then out Outlast it's either Seth or Nate who are
51:43
two kind of be guys out there in Colorado.
51:47
They do that same initial assessment and we're actually in
51:51
the process of training up some folks to start doing more of
51:54
them in New England because we're just expanding this
51:56
concentric circle out of where we are here.
51:59
And and then from that the client has to answer those
52:02
questions how you know, how hard, how far, how long and what
52:05
we say to them is what skill, right.
52:07
So what's the focus the skill they want to they get into some
52:11
clients opt for just individual therapy with Josh and that's why
52:16
we started this you know clinical pathway that we're
52:19
working on is we see the great need where clients don't want to
52:23
go sit in an office to do therapy and they don't
52:26
necessarily want to start climbing either because they're
52:28
a little still little bit like weary that the technical skills
52:32
too big a week. So they start doing one-on-one
52:36
walk and talk, right, same ideas that that assessment.
52:40
But now it's a it's a conversation shoulder to
52:42
shoulder walking through the through the woods that sort of
52:45
thing. And sometimes paddle boarding
52:46
because that's a very low barrier of entry experience and
52:50
and not that it's a low skill set for the guides and you know
52:55
Josh and and the other clinicians that we're bringing
52:59
on boards. But it's an easy one to train
53:02
and get people in and you can control the environmental bit a
53:05
little bit easier. So, but the idea is, as you guys
53:08
know, right, the bilateral movement of walking, bilateral
53:11
movement of paddling, the bilateral experience of the
53:13
brain just having to be occupied a little bit, just that tiny
53:16
bit, right. Helps people just kind of
53:18
realize they're in. In the path, by the way, is
53:21
another piece that science is figuring out, like the the end,
53:24
the need to not have to be overwhelmed with all the extra
53:28
stimulus, right. And that's the idea behind a
53:33
clinical office, by the way, right?
53:35
Yeah, like a clinician's office should be uncluttered.
53:38
It should be clean. It should be, right.
53:40
So. But a lot of people would rather
53:43
move and talk than sit and talk. And then there's also that power
53:47
struggle, A hierarchy thing of like, I'm the therapist, you're
53:50
the client. But when you're shoulder to
53:52
shoulder walking through the woods and you're like, oh, damn,
53:54
we just got bit by mosquito, yeah, you're you're experiencing
53:58
the same experience while having this deeper conversation.
54:03
Yeah. So, so that's how we engage.
54:07
And then the cool part is to how far and how long is all
54:11
determined by the client. We want you to move beyond our
54:15
services. We want you to go to the next
54:19
level. And I tell people the best phone
54:21
call I get is 2 years, three years, five years, 10 years down
54:25
the line when they say, hey Tim, guess what, I'm going to run the
54:29
Grand Canyon. You want to come?
54:31
Hell yeah. Are you kidding me?
54:33
When are you going? I believe in tomorrow, dude.
54:36
Come on. From really Tomorrow.
54:39
You did this on purpose, right? Of course I am.
54:42
Yeah. So that's.
54:44
And then. And then there's the flip side
54:46
of that, right? Same time, Grant.
54:48
Like five years, 10 or whatever. Dude, I'm struggling.
54:51
I'm telling like, it's been a while.
54:52
I haven't talked to you. I'm having a hard time right
54:54
now. I'm.
54:55
I'm a dad. I got kids.
54:56
I got a job. I got.
54:58
I got life stuff, right? Life is getting a lifey.
55:01
Am I right? Cool.
55:03
When's the last time you went climbing?
55:04
Because that's the thing we did together, right?
55:06
Yeah. Well, you know, I haven't had
55:07
the chance. I mean, you know, it's been.
55:09
I've been. So I just told you like these
55:10
things. OK, hold on.
55:12
Click and hang up on them. Literally, I hang right up on
55:15
them. And they go, like, what?
55:18
I can't believe you just hung up on me.
55:19
And so of course they call back, right?
55:21
And if they don't, of course, I call them back.
55:23
And by the way, this is an old day sponsor trick, right?
55:26
Hey, you know. Hey.
55:27
Hey, sponsor. Hey, Tim.
55:28
What's how's it going, Goodman? Hey, Tim, Did you read your
55:31
step? You want to talk about step one?
55:33
Well, actually, you know, I forgot and I didn't click.
55:38
Don't. If you're not putting the time
55:39
in, I'm not putting the message. The message was don't.
55:43
It's not, don't waste my time, right?
55:45
And then it's not even like, don't waste your time, don't
55:47
waste the other guy's time, don't waste the next guy's time,
55:51
right? Who really, really wants to and
55:55
wants to, needs to and is going to do it.
55:57
So. And I get those calls.
56:00
Like, yeah, they click. And then he called back like, oh
56:02
man, I'm like, you know what I'm going to say next, right?
56:04
And they're like, what? Go, go climbing.
56:08
Go Kayaki, go out, go do the thing that we did and then call
56:12
me back, right. Participate in your own rescue,
56:15
dude. Go and call me back.
56:17
And of course they call back every time.
56:19
Like, dude, how? How?
56:20
Like, like, I'm like, what? You feel better, don't you?
56:23
But it can't be that simple. Yeah, it is, man.
56:25
It is. It really is.
56:28
You forgot your medicine. You know, you stopped taking
56:31
your medicine. So get back to it.
56:33
And then and then we have something to talk about.
56:35
Right now, we can actually talk about why this is so hard,
56:40
whatever this is. Right.
56:42
And oh, by the way, if you're, you know, if we can make it work
56:46
depending on where we are in the world, let's get out together as
56:49
soon as possible, You know, let's, let's get back to it.
56:52
And at that stage, that's just a climbing buddy.
56:56
You know, that's just a kayaking buddy, right?
56:58
That's that's like for fun and for free, as we say, unless it's
57:04
an immersive experience, right? Where it's going to require our
57:06
time to be really committed, right outside of that, our own
57:10
medicine component, you know? But it's all very upfront.
57:14
You know how, how do you want to do it?
57:16
How do you How much do you want this medicine, and how much do
57:19
you want our support in getting it?
57:22
Yeah. It's interesting because when
57:24
you were talking about that, I was just thinking about how we
57:28
are just like woefully unprepared for life, you know,
57:32
with with society the way that it is, right?
57:35
And you know, like what an amazing skill set or thing to
57:39
teach our children at a very young age.
57:41
Like all of these principles, right?
57:43
And you know, it is that simple. Get out there, get outside on a
57:46
daily basis, get in the sun, get some vitamin D, All these things
57:50
that we, you know, now we're kind of becoming aware to a lot
57:52
more. I feel like there's a lot more
57:54
conversation about these things, certainly, but it's just it's
57:57
amazing to me that, you know, it takes what it takes to have that
58:01
awareness, you know, to go to these deep dark places to wake
58:05
up to that is is really unfortunate, you know, and and
58:08
it's just like we need to be doing a better job with our
58:10
kids, you know, they really. Yeah, I completely agree.
58:14
Yeah, it's true. I mean, you mentioned, I think
58:15
our society now. I mean, it's like, you know,
58:17
especially with the kids. I have young kids, two young
58:19
boys and like. Thank goodness I'm a little
58:22
blessed. They do like being outside.
58:24
They like camping. They like that kind of stuff.
58:25
But you know them sometimes and also like looking at their
58:29
friends. I mean, it's like, it's video
58:31
games, it's, you know, you're on the computer, you're watching
58:33
YouTube, like all this kind of stuff.
58:35
And like it's it's tough, man. Isolation and it's and it's just
58:40
like it's an addiction. An Addiction 100%.
58:43
And it's, you know, it's firing their brain off and just
58:45
dopamine surges all day long and you know, dopamines with
58:49
dopamine, dopamine, dopamine. Yeah.
58:52
And you know, and it's like and it's the opposite, you know when
58:55
you were first talking about you know the first thing that.
58:59
What came up to me was like connection, right?
59:00
It's all about, you know, recovering is connection in my
59:03
opinion and you know, getting out there connecting with
59:06
another human and getting out in the woods doing that.
59:09
And we're in the kids these days are just not doing that.
59:11
And it's it's we're going to be obviously dealing with I think a
59:14
lot of issues moving forward with this generation coming up.
59:18
So you know, having guys like you that can step in and really
59:23
get him out of that, that void, you know?
59:26
Even, I mean, we actually had a conversation yesterday with a
59:30
outdoor leadership program leader or a boarding school.
59:38
So that's his, that's his job, right.
59:39
He's there to run out to our leadership programming for this,
59:42
you know, boarding school. We're going to take his prefix
59:47
because he's also in charge of prefix this year on a retreat
59:53
where he's not even you know facilitating.
59:56
He's just coming with so that they can get off campus out of
1:00:01
the chaos that's already the week three that they're dealing
1:00:04
with on right. They're under prepared for just
1:00:08
how much stress these kids are under and this isn't a
1:00:11
therapeutic boarding environment.
1:00:12
This is a very high tier you know very very high tier program
1:00:18
and he he yeah. We we have this relationship
1:00:22
where we do these different skills based experiences for for
1:00:26
them, but this was really specific conversation, right?
1:00:29
He said. You guys know this stuff.
1:00:31
We don't, I don't know this stuff.
1:00:33
You guys know this stuff. So we're we're coming to base
1:00:35
camp and we're we're going to you guys take, you know, you
1:00:38
take care of them, you know, kind of like take care of us.
1:00:41
And I said, well, then you understand then what that's
1:00:45
going to be is a lot less and a lot a lot less is more.
1:00:49
So we're going to just kind of do camp.
1:00:51
We're just going to chill. We're going to be, you know,
1:00:54
making fire, cooking food. Connecting you know looking at
1:00:58
stars, you know, like we're not this isn't going to be a high
1:01:02
you know, energy experience is going to be a real you know,
1:01:06
slow and low like a BBQ, right. We were going to go really easy
1:01:11
and and and but this is what we're seeing right is now we
1:01:14
have the opportunity to infiltrate the systems that have
1:01:21
created the problem right. So I I tell people all the time
1:01:24
my kids aren't well that's not true.
1:01:26
My daughter is very much in the team sports.
1:01:28
My son not so much he's my son's actually a junior guide at AR he
1:01:32
actually he's he's helping Co facilitate at his school and
1:01:38
yeah it's it's you know beyond my wildest dreams and I didn't
1:01:40
set it up. He did you know he he made it
1:01:43
happen So you know so the the idea that is kids this is my new
1:01:49
thing kids don't want to use drugs they're smarter than
1:01:51
they've ever been. They actually have more They
1:01:53
have literally the keys to the universe in their pocket and
1:01:56
they know it. Right.
1:01:58
They know it. They're trapped in it because of
1:02:01
you know all the bastards who are making the algorithms right
1:02:04
and making the money and we know that for a fact but but they
1:02:09
know how dangerous it is. Yeah, and they've never, never
1:02:13
been more exposed to the true danger of substance use, right?
1:02:19
They don't want to use drugs. But guess what?
1:02:22
They still want to get high. Yep, Yep.
1:02:27
They really want to get high. And then our systems that we
1:02:30
give them as alternatives, Let's face it guys, they suck.
1:02:34
Because if they were good, right?
1:02:36
Yeah, the kids wouldn't, The kids wouldn't be using drugs,
1:02:39
They'd be doing those things right.
1:02:41
Yeah, right. So we we contrive all this crap
1:02:44
around their lives and we build their lives around all this
1:02:47
contrived. You know, one up.
1:02:49
You know 1 upsmanship and might might then get against team
1:02:52
sports like me. You put me in a team.
1:02:54
I'm going to play my heart out and then we're going to win.
1:02:57
And if we don't win, I'm going to just go off the freaking deep
1:03:00
end because that's when I was trained, right?
1:03:03
That's the point, right? We're here to win.
1:03:06
You ever go surfing? You ever go skateboard and you
1:03:08
ever go snowboard and you ever, like, you don't do any of these
1:03:12
things with a bunch of dudes or a bunch of gals or a bunch of
1:03:15
dudes and gals, and everybody's just doing it right.
1:03:18
And the person who is just doing it the hardest, right,
1:03:23
Everybody's going. Right, right.
1:03:26
Yep. Shearing the stove and the dude
1:03:30
is on the struggle bus who's just doing it.
1:03:32
The heart, like really just struggling.
1:03:34
Everybody's like go, you got this right and everything in
1:03:40
between. So my my, like real true life
1:03:43
mission here is we are in the state we're in.
1:03:46
You know, causation, correlation, all that crap.
1:03:49
No, no, where we are, we are with youth, mental health.
1:03:52
Forget just the kids, man. We're all screwed, right?
1:03:54
Absolutely everybody is struggling because we have moved
1:04:00
out of nature, period. Full stop.
1:04:04
We've moved inside square wall, square boxes.
1:04:07
We're in a controlled environment, and believe me,
1:04:11
people are controlling this environment.
1:04:13
We're making a lot of money, right?
1:04:16
What was it like? Amazon doubled during COVID.
1:04:21
Everybody went inside and went shopping on Amazon.
1:04:23
It's not an accident, Right, Right.
1:04:26
It's not an accident. This isn't an engineer.
1:04:28
I'm not saying it's, you know, the virus.
1:04:30
Oh, that shit's engineered. But I'm saying this is an
1:04:33
engineered system that we have of creating people who were
1:04:38
trapped in their dis ease and they're trapped within four
1:04:43
walls and then screens, we have their attention.
1:04:46
So let's maximize the value of that.
1:04:49
So I my, my true mission is screwed.
1:04:53
All this good outside and let's use these tools.
1:04:57
Let's use these tools by the way, out there.
1:05:00
Yeah. You know, we show like we have
1:05:02
a, we all have dedicated pages on our phones with outdoor apps
1:05:06
and we use it in training. We show people in training, like
1:05:08
use this app for this, use this app for this, use this app for
1:05:11
this. And we're.
1:05:12
And just remember, it's going to break down, right.
1:05:15
Technology breaks down, right. So be prepared to, you know, put
1:05:19
it away so good because it's going to break down anyway.
1:05:23
Yeah. And and so for me.
1:05:25
And then the last thing I'll say is, who better in the world
1:05:27
right now to train the rest of the planet around healthy
1:05:32
ecology, right? Who better in this world right
1:05:35
now to train other human beings to teach, to, to model what it
1:05:40
means to live a sustainable, regenerative lifestyle than a
1:05:44
person in recovery? A person who's already who's
1:05:47
already blown it up, man, Right. A person who's already come so
1:05:50
close to death by overconsumption, right.
1:05:54
Who better than that community to step up and say now, man we
1:05:59
don't have to live this way. We can we can take less and do
1:06:02
more. OK.
1:06:04
So I can't thank you guys enough for like giving me a chance to
1:06:08
you know spread that message if you will and and what we're
1:06:12
doing the fact that and I can't emphasize enough how impressed I
1:06:15
am with what you guys are doing and you know the the need for
1:06:20
really you know well thought thought out really thoughtful
1:06:26
really kind really generous time and effort towards a person's
1:06:30
earliest stage of their recovery is so vital right.
1:06:34
Really is right we we we all everybody deserves what you guys
1:06:38
are offering and and I know and I know you know Graham enough
1:06:42
and then getting to know you Justin that yeah you guys are
1:06:46
just getting started here So I I look forward to how much you
1:06:49
guys are going to continue to impact lives and and you know
1:06:53
thank you. Thank you, Tim.
1:06:55
I appreciate it, Tim. We got to we.
1:06:57
I feel like we should get together and go camping or
1:06:58
something. Let's go.
1:07:00
Let's go, man. We're down, let's do Asheville.
1:07:04
So is there anything far, how long and how much those
1:07:08
questions and let's go let's. Do so now.
1:07:11
Is there anything that you want to plug?
1:07:12
Maybe your website? At the least, let everybody know
1:07:15
where to find you. Absolutely.
1:07:17
Yeah, adventurerecovery.com. A lot of people love our
1:07:21
Instagram and all that stuff. So at Adventure Recovery I guess
1:07:26
is how you get to all those things.
1:07:28
Perfect People often ask, you know.
1:07:31
And I have like my own professional pages like Tim
1:07:34
Walsh. None of it's me by the way.
1:07:35
It's it's all my stuff in the sense I got it, it's we're doing
1:07:39
it. Area where this isn't stock
1:07:41
stuff like weird. This is all of our content is
1:07:43
us. It's awesome.
1:07:46
It's what we this little life we're living.
1:07:48
But it's not, you know, I'm not the one posted.
1:07:50
People always reach out directly and not like, you know why Don't
1:07:53
stop me. Someone else's?
1:07:55
Yeah. You're out.
1:07:56
You're out surface. So you you're not checking in.
1:07:59
In fact this morning, this morning the the ticks all went
1:08:03
out from this thing we did yesterday and my phone was on on
1:08:07
the table and the person who does this picks up the phone and
1:08:10
goes, this is the shot, this is the shot.
1:08:16
Why was it this, you know, I was like, yeah, I don't.
1:08:19
I'm. I'm not doing it, man.
1:08:20
I take the pictures. I don't know what happens for
1:08:22
bear. They're in the cloud.
1:08:24
Yeah, they're in the cloud. Well, thanks so much for being
1:08:27
with us today, man. This is, this has been fun to
1:08:29
catch up with you and you know we're we're talking about doing
1:08:32
a lot of work together moving forward.
1:08:33
So I'm I'm just excited for that.
1:08:35
So looking forward to getting our clients engaged with a
1:08:38
venture recovery and and really taking it to the next level.
1:08:42
Thanks brother. Thank you.
1:08:44
You guys both keep doing the great work you're doing.