Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Suicide or murder: Louisiana deputy found shot dead in master bedroom

Transcript

Suicide or murder: Louisiana deputy found shot dead in master bedroom · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: give them another onesie, don't give them a plastic toy
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: or god forbid, a toy gun that's just gonna end
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: up in the garage. Give them something that matters, and
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: what matters the most is protecting their child. What do
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: you love most in the world your children? What will
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: you do to protect them anything. I sat down with
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the smartest people I know in the world on matters
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crime stops here dot
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: com for a five part series with action information that
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: you can use to change your life and protect your child.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Payments starting six. Give that as a gift, not another one, esie.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Find out how to protect your child when you're out
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: of the mall or the store, or the grocery and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: the parking lot at home. Find out about protection regarding babysitters,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: in daycare, even online. I'd rather have that any day
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: of the week than a plastic toy or God forbid
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: a toy gun. Join Justice Nation, go to crime stops
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: here dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I could
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: have it as clearly shows that he committed suicide, clearly
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: shows that he was depressed, Clearly shows that he was
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: on with shrinking alcohol, clearly shows that he was taking medication. Um,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: and there's posting that they know about where he was
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: posting these suicidal doc post you're hearing from. Renowned defends
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: attorney Leo Palazzo, claiming that Sergeant Troy Smith committed suicide.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Why would a young sergeant kill himself? What's the truth
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: behind the shooting death of Sergeant Troy Smith. I'm not convinced.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: for being with us. Let's take a listen to what
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: we can learn from a hysterical nine one one call
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: my husband just sid hself an ahead twelve common lane
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: camelulate A Wagman. He's the police officer, Sir Wagman. Yes,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: give me somebody now, Okay, hold on, man, I'm gonna
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: saying them on now, ma'am, ma'am. Okay man. I need
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: you to go up to him. I need you to
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: tell me if I need to tell me if he's
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: still breathing. He's breathing fairly, preze and sorry, fleeting everywhere. Okay,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: is he conscious? Is he able to say anything? No,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Sirry you stop itself in the head. Okay, all right, man,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna stand along with you for mom along. I'm
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: gonna stand along with you for bid. Man. We need
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: you to tell me what your name is. My name
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: is Shante Shantel. Yes, and he's a police officeers, Sir,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: he's a police officer. Yeah, his name is choice Mess,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: she said, j you are hearing part of a night
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: moment call that we have obtained by Troy's wife. That's
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Chantel Wagner, who comes in to find her husband's shot
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: dead in the head. Joining me, talk show host Dave Mac,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Atlanta juvenile judge, lawyer and founder of child crime watch
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: dot Com. Ashley Wilcot, veteran forensic psychiatrist Dr Daniel Bober
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and also joining me, Professor Forensics Suggestionle State University, author
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: to Dave Mac, talk show host Dave, I want to
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: get some of the facts surrounding his shooting death. UM
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: cops go in. They find one of their own, Sergeant
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Troy Smith, dad from a gunshot wound. Tell me where
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: they were, was it at home, what room of the home,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: what time of the day, and is that the wife
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: calling in? All right? Well, first of all, that is
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the wife's calling in. Second of all, they found his
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: body on the bed in the master bedroom where the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: phone call was made number one, the one you just
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: heard that was made at about at night, the night
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: of Father's Day, by the way, Okay, hold on, hold on,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: let me take this in. So Father's Day night, almost midnight.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: What you know, I've told a million juries. Nothing good
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: happens after midnight. If you're out on the street, if
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: you're driving around, get ready, trouble's gonna happen. So it's
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Father's Day night and it's almost midnight. He's in the
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: family home, in the master bedroom, on the bed, and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: he's shot in the head. To Ashley Wilcott, juvenhaw judge
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and trial lawyer, Ashley, he's found on Father's Day night.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Have you noticed it's so often UM suicides and homicides
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: occur on holidays, in weekends. I think it's because people
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: are off and they're not at work, and they familiarity
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: breeds contempt. The more you're around somebody that irritates you,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: the more likely tempers are to flare. I think it's that,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and I think often on holidays and times off, people
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: are drinking or celebrating and doing things that make them
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: in a different state of mind. Sometimes no excuse, so
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: it happens. So Sergeant Troy Smith allegedly Dave MC talk
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: show host was posting quote dark suicidal messages. What were
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: some of the messages he was posting. I didn't see
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: any Nancy, the ones that that guy was talking about.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't see any of those postings. All I've heard
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: from them when I was looking over everything in this
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: on the articles that are available from the police right
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: now and in the press, I didn't see anything that
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: he actually said. You know, Dave Matt, we have investigated
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: this very thoroughly, and contrary to what the lawyer was stating,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I haven't been able to find any such postings. As
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: a matter of fact, all of his friends, Troy Smiths
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: were in disbelief in a long time friend of former
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: classmate there at Saint Augustine High School in New Orleans
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: said None of this sat right with his friends, and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: they were all skeptics regarding a suicide because he had
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: everything before him, He had everything to live for. Two
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. Dr Bober. On the other hand,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I recall a very very dear friend of mine committed
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: suicide and he had everything to live for. He was
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: a health nut as a matter of fact, Dr Bober,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: his name is Bob c Feld, was Bob c Feld,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: and I forgot exactly how oh hell he's in the
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: cable industry, and I met him when I was working
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: at Court TV in Manhattan. He was such a health
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: nut that instead of eating the snacks on a plane,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: he would bring a bag of organic of course, let
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: us that he had personally washed every leaf and he
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: would sit there like we would eat peanuts or popcorn
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and eat his lettuce on the plane. And no, he
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: was not a nut, he was not. In fact, he
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: was brilliant. And when I learned he had walked out
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: into the San Francisco Bay and never came back, it's
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: still shocks me and it makes me grieve. I still
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: can't take it in. He would take his own life,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: so just because all of his friends say, oh, Sergeant
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Troy Smith would never commit suicide. We don't know what
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: anybody would do. Dr Bober. And see, I can't tell
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: you how many times I've had patients sit in front
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: of me and tell them that they were telling me
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: that they were feeling fine, and then the next day
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: they go off and jump off the top of a
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: parking garage. So the bottom line is with people, you
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: only see what they want to show you and if
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: there hell bent on keeping things from you. You know,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: there are so many people in the world that are
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: suffering in quiet desperation and they just we don't know
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: what they're really struggling with or what they're going through,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: and they're only going to show you as much as
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: they want to show you. So it's not always a
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: trail of breadcrumbs like social media postings or you know,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: things they tell their spouse. Sometimes there's no warning at
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: all and it just happens because they didn't want anyone
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: to know. You know, while I've got Ashley Wilco, a
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: juvenile judge, and Dr Daniel Bober, physics psychiatrist. Dr Daniel Bober,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: what does a suicide due to the children. I know,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I'm sprinkling a lot of personal antidotes into this. But
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I remember two girls that were absolutely precious and smart
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and and wonderful mother when I was growing up in
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: rural Georgia committed suicide. And it was one of those
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: things like, uh, where I came from, people go what happened?
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: And somebody would say, oh, she committed suicide. You didn't
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: even say it out loud. And actually the whole community
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: knew her very well because there was a really great
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Collin show in the mornings on w m a Z
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: and the host slogan was Ko Ko keep on keeping
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: on and she would call in all the time and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: tell funny stories and ask questions and so so a
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: lot of people felt that they knew her, and she
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: committed suicide. I think one of the girls actually found
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: her body, and I can't recall that part, but we
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: were all I had never heard of that growing up,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: that somebody would kill themselves. Dr Bober, What does that
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: do to the children when someone commits suicide. Well, of course,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: you know, there's the immediate shock of it, and then
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: you know, the children are reflected for the rest of
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: their life. All those not just all the special occasions
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: like you know, high school graduations and weddings that you
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: know the parent won't be there for. But just the daily,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: everyday grind of life, you know, with with a parent
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: who's absent, uh, the child is never the same. I
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: mean very often there are other caregivers that can sort
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: of try to help fill in the gap. But you know, Nancy,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: you said something very interesting about whispering that it was suicide.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: And I can't tell you how many funerals I've been
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to where there's been suicides and the the the people
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: of the family will not mention that it was a
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: suicide because I think in our society there's still else
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: it's a social stigma against mental illness and suicide that
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: people feel ashamed of it. And I think that's part
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: of the reason that people are afraid to, you know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: seek help, is because of that, the fear of that
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: stigma and being judged. Ashley Willcott, in addition to what
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Dr Bober said, which of course is absolutely correct, what
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: about the feeling of guilt like mommy or Daddy did
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that because of me. It's my fault because I didn't
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: pick up my clothes, because I talked bat because whatever,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: that's what I see on the bench, Nancy is when
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: kids experienced the suicide of a caretaker or a parent,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: they always come back to what did I do wrong?
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: What could I have done differently? It's my fault. I'm
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: so sorry. That's absolutely what they think in their minds. Well,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: apparently even the wife refused to accept that it was
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: a suicide. Listen to what she was saying at the funeral.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: This is Fox eight's Natasha Robin. Smith and Wagner married
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and sixteen, and both had children from
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: previous marriages. Neighbors described them as happy, but the two
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: were facing financial troubles. Smith and Wagner filed Chapter thirteen
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: bankruptcy on June one, listing more than two hundred and
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: ninety one thousand dollars in debt. A neighbor told Fox
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Sat she attended the funeral. She says at the funeral,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Wagner approached her and told her that Sergeant Troy Smith
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: didn't commit suicide. She said it was an accident. Well,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: she he did. From my understanding, he did shoot himself,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: and she doesn't know if it was actually supposed to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: be suicide, our accident because when he pulled the gun
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: up the gun went off. My husband just sun uping
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: ahead twelve common lane camereu lane. A wagman. He's the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: police officers are wagonman? Yes, give me somebody now, Okay,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: hold on, man, I'm gonna saying them on now, ma'am, ma'am. Okay, man,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: I need you to go up to him. I need
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: you to tell me if I need to tell me
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: if he's still breathing. He's breathing barely, prez and sorry,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: fleeting everywhere. Okay? Is he conscious? Is he able to
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: say anything? No, sirry you stop yourself in the head. Okay,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: all right, man, I'm gonna stand along with you for
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: mom along. I'm gonna stand along with you for a bit. Man.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: We need you to tell me what your name is.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: My name is Shante Shantel. Yes, and he's a police officers, Sir,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: he's a police officer. Yeah, it's his name is choice
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: mess he said, Okay, Uh, that's disturbing me in a
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: way with me? Is Dave Max, syndicated talk show host,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, judge lawyer, founder child crime watch dot com.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober forensic psychiatrist, and Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: expert author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Ashley,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: did you hear the hysterical crying? Now? I'm okay with that.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I'm okay with hysterics, because you know, when I have
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: been faced with life and death, I feel hysterical on
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: the inside. I get really quiet, no tears, no yelling,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: no nothing like that. But I feel hysterical on the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: inside when faced with life or death. Um, she let
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: it out. But what's bothering me is when he said,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: what's your name? She goes chantel. He's a police officer.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Suddenly everything is cleared up. The crying, the hysterics. It
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: reminds me a tiny bit. Do you remember the black
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: widow in Florida? The former escore that what what was
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: her name? Alan Duke and Royce Layton Actually, oh my good, Dippolito.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: How could I forget that name? And they act she
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: tried to kill her husband with poison, allegedly and hy ty,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: and then that didn't work, and so she ordered a
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: hit man. Of course, the hit man was an undercover agent,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: so they set up this elaborate sting and when they
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: quote told her about her husband's quote death quote, e.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: She like breaks down, bends over, double screaming the whole
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: time she had set up the hit. Okay, now, I'm
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: not saying this woman is guilty or innocent, but she
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: has the hysterics and then turns on a dime and
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: it's totally calm. What's that, Ashley? You know, Nancy, I
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: don't know, And I have to say this. We know
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: there are lots of people out there who commit crimes,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: who act hysterical at the time of only to find
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: that they actually committed the crime. The other piece of
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: that that's weird to me. It's not only did she
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden get calm. Do you know she
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: kind of dropped the fact he was law enforcement down
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the road. Like, to me, that's one of the first
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: things you say, say, oh my god, he's an officer,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: because I hate to say it, but they're going to
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: respond quickly and differently, I think potentially, but oh my god,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: he's a police officer and we have you know, he
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: shot himself in the head and I need an ambulance.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: They're just things she didn't say that make me, um
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable with her demeanor on that call. Ashley
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Willcott did you just say, oh MG, did I say what?
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: O MG? No? Oh I did I apologize? Actually, do
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: not drag him slash her into this drama? Okay? Dr
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Daniel Bobert Ashley Willcott's profanity aside. Uh Dr bober what
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: is that? Is that normal? Because before she may have
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: been just reacting to the fact her husband's shot in
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: the head and then she straightens up to give pertinent
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: information or does it strike you as unusual? I agree
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: with Ashley. I mean it seemed like, you know, when
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: people are under that level of stress and their response
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: is fairly unrestrained and they seeming consolable as it just
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: sort of snap out of it and you know, go
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: into this just the facts man mode. It definitely would
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: raise a red flag. But you know, people grieve differently,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: people deal with stress differently, so you can't say, but
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: it certainly raises a red flag. Have you ever considered
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: a feature in defense? Mark? Let's take a listen to
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: more of that. Noi'm only calls see what we can
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: figure out. Man, Is there anyone in the else No house? Now,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I've already sent the police had a while ago there
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: on their way, Okay, ma'am. And if he's still breathing.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Yea is Yeah, I was his breathing, ma'am. Okay, but
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: how is his breathing? Is it heavy? Labored? Low, shallow heavy,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: a labor. You're hearing more of the nine one call
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: and the crying has started up again. To Joe Scott Morgan,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, I have to agree with Dr Bober. Okay, Um,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you never know how someone's going to react in a
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: situation like this. You've been on a lot of death sayings,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, she's trying again. I can't say that the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: first portion of the ninmal one call we played really
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: proved anything to me. And believe me, I'm looking, but
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: that first let me just say, aberration. That didn't prove
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: anything to me. What odd behavior have you ever witnessed
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: at death scenes? Uh, you name it. I've seen people,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: you know, uh, clutching bodies, rolling around with them, doing
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: everything if they can just get access to them. And
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of this is driven, uh, driven by grief. Uh.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: This kind of primal response that people will have to
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: this sudden realization that there's loss and this horror that
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: is overcoming them. Uh and uh. But I have also
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: been on scenes where you'll have these individuals that will
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: vacillate between these extreme emotional reactions where you'll have them
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: screaming and they're incoherent and this word of thing, and
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, they've become very, very placid,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and they seem like they're lucid. It's really hard to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: judge motive fan those sorts of things in that particular moment.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: You have to kind of let the death settle after
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: a while. Do you know another parent or expecting parent.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Are you wondering what can I give them as a gift.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Don't give them another one sie, don't give them a
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: plastic toy or god forbid a toy gun that's just
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: gonna end up in the garage. Give them something that matters.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And what matters the most is protecting their child. What
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: do you love most in the world, Your children? What
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: will you do to protect them anything. I sat down
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: with the smartest people I know in the world on
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: matters of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crime stops here dot
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: com for a five part series is with action information
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that you can use to change your life and protect
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: your child. Payments starting six. Give that as a gift,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: not another one ze. Find out how to protect your
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: child when you're out of the mall or the store,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: or the grocery and the parking lot at home. Find
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: out about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. I'd
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: rather have that any day of the week than a
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: plastic toy. Our God forbid a toy gun. Join Justice Nation.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Go to crime stops here dot com Crime Stories with
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm Ramsey, i'n't want to call you. Thank
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: you for comment. I'm sorry to call you. Listen. We
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: had a report of a disturbance at your house and
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: there were shots fired as your husband, Michael, Okay, I'm
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: sorry to tell you man, he's been killed. He's been killed. Man.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Right now, we need to we need to can't you
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: want to find at killer? Okay? We need you to
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: comb up. I need you to go. Okay, you have enemies.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Is there anyone that would want to hurt Okay, who
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: want to hurt him? Said he saw a blackmail running
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: from you. I can't stand them, dam I cannot do
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: this right now. Need I need you to stay for
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the station. Don't get too upset just yet. That's Dahlia
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: di Polito and number one, her husband's not dead. At
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: number two, she hired a hitman to kill him. That
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: happened to be an undercover agent. Al right, so don't
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: be too upset when you hear the hysterical screaming. Now
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm not saying that this wife, Shuntel Wagner, is
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: guilty or innocent, but take listen to the rest of
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: her nine one one Collin man, what's that noise? Is
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: that him? Is that him? Guessing? Yeah? Ing, sir, oh yeah,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: h wow. That sounds amazingly like Dahlia di Polito. Still
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: not making a comparison. Let's talk about the actual injuries.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Now we know that he was found dead from apparently
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: self inflicted gunshot wound to the hid in his bed,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: found by his wife, Shantell Wagner. You're listening to her
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: make the name on one call. That's a heck of
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: a dispatch officer, and usually I do not have kind
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: words for them, but he actually identified in the background
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: that he could hear Sergeant Troy Smith that deceased breathing
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: his last breath, very labored breathing as the wife sat
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: by and cried to death. Investigator Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan joining us, Joe Scott, let's talk about
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: the injuries themselves. The fatal wound, what do you know?
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: This is what I do know, Nancy. Uh. The gunshot
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: wound that that this officer sustained is slightly above into
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the rear of the ear. Okay Uh. And what happens
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: is is that this round apparently has traversed from that
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: location forward uh in the head. Uh. And according to
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: what the corner is now saying, uh, it appears that
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: this round was fired at some distance. Now, I think
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the way that they've probably determined this when they get
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the body back to the more, they will have cleaned
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: off this area and they can appreciate the disbursement of gunpowder.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Are unburned gunpowder on the surface of the skin, and
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna get let's say, for instance, this is
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a tight press gunshot wound, You're not going to have
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: a disposition of zoot soot everywhere. It will be literally
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: injected into the head, and that's commonly what you see
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: with suicides. This is highly regular, it is and what
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: we would refer to as an atypical gunshot one for suicide.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: You know what. It's also confusing the fact is that
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: there was an amended autopsy report indicating the whole in
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: the top of smith skull, originally thought to be the
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: exit wound, was in fact made by surgeons operating on
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: him before he died. Now, the amended autopsy reports as
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the exit wound is the same as the entrance wound
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: on the right side of Smith's head toward the front.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: It's a tan, gentle or superficial wound that was incorporated
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: into the craniotomy incision um that was subsequently sutured and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: sewn up and stapled as well. Now that's going to
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: add confusion that there was a second autopsy report and
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: that the surgery on the top of his head was
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: confused to be the entry wound or the exit wound
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: of the original gunfire. I know, talking in legal talk
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and medical talk. The coroner's report notes that although it's
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: findings as to the wound are amended, the office still
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: cannot say whether the death was homicide or suicide because
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: the range of fire is unknown. The range of fire
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: is unknown. What does that mean, Joe Scott. Well, if
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: you've got range of fire that is unknown, what that
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: means is that there is literally no sit deposition, which
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: means that the individual would have been outside of the
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: range of potentially eighteen inches away when firing this thing.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: So hold on, let me break that down. Jo Scott
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: is talking in very technical talk. When there is no
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: range of fire, that means you don't know how far
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: away the gun was. That's what that means. If a
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: gun is within thirty six inches three ft of the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: body when fired, you will typically almost always get g
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: SR gunshot residue. They cause you can't see what the
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: naked eye when a bullet is fired. Gunshot powder as
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: fine as baby powder, goes everywhere. You can see it
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: under a microscope really well, and it leaves residues easily
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: washed off your hands or if you even move or
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: brush up against the bed shakes, it can be removed.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: But there was none. That's we know that, Joe Scott,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: because it says the range of fires unknown, so it
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: was not within three feet. Would you agree with that, Yeah,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I would. And can I just add one more thing, Nancy,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: When when when you're doing surgery on someone that has
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: sustained this kind of injury, keep in mind the surgeons
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: are not interested in forensic evidence. They would have shaved
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: his head significantly. And the fact that they used that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: point of entry as an entry area into this craniotomy
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: they performed is not uncommon. You actually see it in
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: chess wounds where people have been shot in the chest,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: so use that point to literally open up the chest.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: It's not uncommon to have this in the head. Uh.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: And if there was gunshot wound gunshot residue, then the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: shaved hair would have been removed, washed away. They'll also
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: have cleaned the skin. They may have washed it down
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: with batha and break that down place. I think what
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: you're saying is he wasn't dead yet, so they tried
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to save his life by operating on his head. And
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: if they had, they would have washed his hair and
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: shaved his scout. That would have gotten rid of all
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: gunshot residue if he had held the gun up to
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: his own head. Yes, no, Joe Scott, Yes, yes, you're
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Here's my other question what about his hand. If you
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: pull the trigger, you've got gunshot residue on your hand.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Here's the problem everything. He was moved to the hospital,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: he was raised to the hospital. That being put on
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: a guarney, being bundled up, having blankets put on you
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: taken off, you can remove gunshot residue. It's just like
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: baby powder. Well, one person is convinced, regardless of the
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: confusion in the autopsy report, that this is a suicide,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: that Sergeant Troy Smith did kill himself. His mother in law.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Here's his mother in law speaking to Fox eight reporter
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Natasha Robin. I just wish everyone would stop jumping to conclusions.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Tevin Welcher should tell Wagner's mother they were both good people.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Nobody's talking bad about Troy. We loved Troy. They were
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: both good people. They both have children, and I mean,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: this is affecting all of the kids. The incident that
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: led to Smith's death was first reported as an attempted suicide.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Investigators were called to the couple's home and Wagonman on
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: June seventeenth, Father's Day night. They found Smith in a
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: bedroom with a single gunshot wound to the head. He
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: died a week later in the hospital. He's a very uh,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: dedicated and strong willed and strong person all around, So
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: it was very it was shocking, um and the most
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: of his all of his friends thought the same way.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Smith's friends say Wagner's story of an attempted suicide never
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: added up. It was definitely a career police officer and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: and and dedicated. Um, you know, he's in military also.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: He was just that kind of guy, uh and certainly
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: not the type that you would you would think it
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: would take this route. You're hearing a former coworker saying
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: that Sergeant Troy Smith was not the type to be
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: depressed and kill himself. Speaking to Fox Site reporter Natasha Robbin,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: how does that factor in for you? Dr Daniel Bober,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist, that no friend thought that he would commit suicide,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and also that he has this strong police and military
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: background known for self discipline. Well, you know, Nancy, it's
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: not just positive. I mean, it's certainly you know, one
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: factor that goes against suicide. But you know, I have
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: to say I've worked with a lot of police officer.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I'm the psychiatrist for the Broward Sheriff's Office, and I
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: see a lot of deputies and the police officers tend
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: to actually have a higher suicide rate than the general population.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: You can make the argument whether that's, you know, their
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: individual makeup or just the stress of the job. So
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's one factor that rules against suicide, but
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: certainly not doesn't prove it one way or the other.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: But now, in a sudden twist, the case takes another
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: turn to tell Wagner wasn't dicted for second degree murder.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: That's according to her lawyer, Leo Palazzo, as the d
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: a year in Jefferson Parish alleges that she shot and
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: killed her husband, jps OH Sergeant Troy Smith, and then
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: tried to cover it up. Now Wagner was arrested. She
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: has not been able to make bond. If you were
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: hearing from w DSc reporter Traver's Maco reporting the Wye
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Shante Wagner has now been taken into custody. Straight out
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: to Dave mac talk show host, what happened? What changed
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to make them arrest his wife? Well, what led them
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: to arrest his wife was that they actually the forensically
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: determined that the gunshot came from the back of his
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: head and that the gun was two to three feet away.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: That's what ultimately was what we're reading and what we're
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: seeing from the police. It was all forensically. It took
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: some time, but they knew right away. You don't get
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: shot in the back of the head when you're shooting yourself.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to make wide a suicide by
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: any stretch of the imagination. But you know, going back
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: to that nine one one called Nancy, did you notice
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: how when she was talking to the nine one one operator,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: she was getting that sir, sir, that kind of calm
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: thing that people do when they're guilty of something but
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: they're trying to act right with somebody they see as
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a law enforcement official. It happens on if you ever
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: watch interactions with police officers and criminals, they'll always say, sir, sir,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't do anything, sir, I'm innocent, and it's like,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: that's what she was doing on that nine one one call.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: It caught my attention and it scares the crap out
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: of me because she was such a good actress. Well,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: let's take a listen to that, especially the initial part
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: of the nine o one call. Listen, Well, my husband
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: just start herself in Ahead twelve. Communion Lane, Communu Lane,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: A wagman. He's the police officers are commedia Lane and wagonman. Yes,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: give me somebody else. Okay, hold on, man, I'm gonna
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: shame them on now, ma'am, ma'am. Okay, man, I need
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: you to go up to him. I need you to
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: tell me if I need to tell me if he's
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: still breathing, he's sorry, cleaning everywhere? Okay? Is he conscious?
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Is he able to say anything? No, Sirry you started
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: up in the head. Okay, all right, man, I'm gonna
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: stand along with you for mom along. I'm gonna stand
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: along with you for a bit. Man. We need you
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: to tell me what your name is? No, Na, Miss
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Santell Chantel. Yes, and he's a police officers there, he's
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a police officer. Yeah, it's his man's choice. Mess she said,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: j P. There you are hearing exactly what Dave mac
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: talks to your host is talking about. I want to
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: talk about that and the forensics to Dr Daniel Boberge.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: What do you make of Dave Dave Max observation. I mean,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: you know it. Listen, there's not I don't think there's
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: been a scientific study that would support that, but you know,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: people behave differently under different situations, and I don't there's
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: very few you know, a lot of people talk about this.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: You know, you can tell by someone's blink rate there
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: if they're lying, And there's really never been a reliable
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: test that shows that someone's being deceiving. And there are
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: certainly signs, but there's nothing that proves it definitively, which
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: is also why polygraphs aren't inmissible in court. So it's
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: just very difficult to know for sure. To Joseph's got
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Morgan death investigator, I want to talk about the forensics.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: The wound. Yes, as you accurately pointed out, all potential
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: gunshot residue was removed when the hospital surgeons were trying
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: to save his life. But what about the wound itself, Well,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the wound itself, Nancy would whist to it, and there's
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: not gonna be a lot of disruption, there's not any
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: gas passing through, it's not gonna be blown apart, and
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: it's going to give a very fixed position as to
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: where the individual was oriented that fired the weapon into
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: this man's head. Apparently the individual was certainly above them,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: uh to the rear of them and and fired downward
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: at this Indiley didn't kill him initially because we could
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: hear those agonal respirations, which means that the primal brain
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: wasn't clipped at that point in time. It just kind
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: of passes through. You had mentioned this tangential gunshot wound.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: It passes through almost peripherally. So's she's he's bleeding out
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: and you can hear her saying he's bleeding out. He's
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: bleeding nowt he's probably bleeding from the nose, the mouth,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: maybe the wound itself, but the primal brain at the
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: very base is keeping his heart going, is keeping the
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: respirations going, and so they're just trying to save his life.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: But this is an unrecoverable injury that he sustained to
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: actually Will caught judge, lawyer, founder child crime watch dot com.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: They were nearly three hundred thousand dollars in debt, both
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: had filed both respectively had filed for bankruptcy. Would that
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: be motive for either homicide or suicide? So homicide or suicide,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: the problem is, let's say they had a life insurance policy,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: for instance, whether it's suicide or homicide, if she's in
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: fact convicted of that, then in fact, it's not going
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: to be a financial gain to have that policy because
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be paid out. So, you know,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: is it a if? It's always a motive. Money sets
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: drugs always the motives for people to do these things.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: But I don't see how there'd be a financial gain
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: from her killing him if she's convicted of that. Here's
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: another issue, Um, we learned recently that none of the
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: wives DNA was found on the weapon. We've heard that
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: and support of a suicide claim. We've also heard that
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: based on a recreation, the bullet hole was found. A
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: bullet hole was found in the wall at the home.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: We don't know if it was made the same day
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: as the shooting. What more do we know? To Dave Max,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: syndicated talk show host Nancy, what we know is only
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: what is being reported, and they're being kind of closed
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: lift over a number of different things about the whether
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: there's DNA on the gun or what have you. I
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: go back to the real charge was aft. They investigated this,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: and they came back and they said it was based
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: on borensic evidence from the gunshot wound, and you got
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: it back on blood spatter too. She could have washed
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: her hands, she could have stopped the gun, and she
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: could have done any number of things to cover this up.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: She also she's not an idiot. She's been married to
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: him for a few years. And by the way, I
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: want to go back to one thing you were talking
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: about with bankruptcy, just so you know, when people get
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: a Chapter thirteen, they don't lose anything. That's just a
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: reorganization so that they can make all their payments into
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: a lower lump sum, and it actually gives them some
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: breathing room. So somebody who was stressed out on financial
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: issues actually gets a rebirth under Chapter thirteen. That wouldn't
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: be a reason to go and take a gun to
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: your head. It actually would be a reason to go
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: out and have dinner because you would have a little
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: extra money to do that. Good point. Right now, we
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. We know that the wife, Chantel
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Wagner has had her bail lowered and has now been
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: reset at three hundred thousand dollars. That's lower than the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: five hundred thousand that was typically set for that kind
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: of case. That means she's got to come up with
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars cash or Collateral Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: signing off goodbye, friend one,