Latest / Moser, Lombardi and Kane / 9-23-26 Hour 1 - Broncos moral victories?/Sean Payton beefin' with Mike McDonald/Seth Wickersham

Transcript

9-23-26 Hour 1 - Broncos moral victories?/Sean Payton beefin' with Mike McDonald/Seth Wickersham · Moser, Lombardi and Kane

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This is Mosher Lombardi and Kane On Demand. Listen live
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: every weekday morning from 7 to 10 on Altitude Sports
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Radio 92.5 and on the Altitude Sports Radio app.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Seth Wickersham will join the program at 740 this morning.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: We get some more insights from Seth. He's in town.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: I believe he's signing books. around town over the next
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: couple of days.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: So he'll talk to us at 7.40 this morning.
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: He's also going to appear at the Tattered Cover on
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: Colfax tonight with me.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be interviewing.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Seth for a crowd that shows up tonight and you
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: get a chance to preview his new book, Beyond That Hill.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Why are you grabbing microphones for every person that stops
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: in town?
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: What's going on with you? I'm very important. Mr. Bocelli
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: and Seth Wickersham.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: He asked me if I would do it. And I'm
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: a nice guy. And I said, yes, I will do it.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: In exchange, will you come on our show a couple
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: times when we ask you?
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  Speaker 3: So I do it for value. And the value is
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: we have a guest on our show today. He asked
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: me first. I turned it down. I also turned it down.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: We'll ask him. He'll join us at 740.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, sounds good.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So, listen.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I have a thought, and it's a good problem to have.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: But you know when the Avs or Nuggets lose a
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: couple of games, and it does kind of feel like
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: the fan base is spiraling out of control because they've
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: been so used to winning that losing is so foreign.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: It's a hard thing to get your mind wrapped around.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: And it feels like the Broncos fan base has entered
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: that realm now. And I'll be honest, I think I'm
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: as guilty as anybody. But when you go a full
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: calendar year and some change with really just three losses
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: on the table, because if you want to count the
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: AFC championship game, you can, but I think that's one
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: of those games that we all kind of understood the
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: circumstances going in with a backup quarterback.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: You've lost like three or four football games, really.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And the start to this year has been so tough
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: from a schedule standpoint. It's hard not to ride the wave.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: But let me ask this. You're facing a favorite to
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: win the Super Bowl this weekend with a chance, a
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: real chance to go one and two. Do you think
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: there should be perspective being held if the Broncos lose
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: this weekend? Or does it still feel like, hey, you're
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: a good football team.
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  Speaker 3: You should win. What is it? What do you mean
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  Speaker 3: perspective being held?
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  Speaker 2: If you lose to the Rams, a lot of teams
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: lose to the Rams.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess it all depends on how you feel
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: they stack up in the NFL. When you did your
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: little preseason ranking things, where did the Broncos, where did
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: they come out?
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  Speaker 3: Where were they? Were they in the top five? Yeah,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: they were like third or fourth, I think. I can't remember.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, well then, so then you should be right there.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: So then your expectation should be they should take care
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: of business against the Rams on the home court.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Do I expect the Broncos to win? I don't know.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Would I be surprised if they win?
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: No.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Why not?
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: Why is that asking too much? Are you soft-pedaling this?
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: Are you already preparing people for a loss? No, I'll
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: tell you where my mind's at, and I don't know
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: why this is.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I can't remember the last time I went into a
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: football game thinking the Broncos are going to lose, but
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I kind of have that feeling this week, which is
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a weird thing for me. And What I'm asking is,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: if you think the Broncos are Super Bowl contenders, should
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: you ever have that feeling going into a football game?
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  Speaker 5: No.
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  Speaker 3: That's the weird thing, right? Let me flip it around
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  Speaker 3: for you.
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  Speaker 5: Do Buffalo Bills fans go into any game thinking, our
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: team should probably lose this game?
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  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
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  Speaker 6: No.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think so either. Then what's our problem?
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  Speaker 3: Hey, do the Rams go into games thinking they should lose?
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  Speaker 3: Not at all.
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  Speaker 6: No.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 5: I think their fan base probably goes, we should win
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: every game.
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  Speaker 4: So I think what we've unearthed here is a sense
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: of insecurity still that is deep in the cavities of
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: your brain.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, Vic. That's what I was looking for.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't know what that is because the Broncos
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: have won almost all of the football games they played
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: for the last year.
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  Speaker 3: They really have.
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  Speaker 2: So why do I feel that way about this week?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And I've been trying to dive deeper into it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Well, logic tells you one thing. Logic tells you one thing.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: and your heart starts talking to you about something else, about, oh, God,
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  Speaker 5: Rams are good. But logic would say, hey, look, if
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: you're considered one of the best teams in the league,
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: why do you have any trepidation going into this contest whatsoever?
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  Speaker 3: Here's why.
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  Speaker 2: It's because I think maybe the Rams are the only
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  Speaker 2: team in the league I can say this about.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: If I put the two teams on paper, I think
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  Speaker 3: they have more talent than you. It's not a lot.
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  Speaker 3: But they have more. They have more. And the bigger
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: fear in that, the potency of that offense.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Leads to a discussion about, you said it, Vic, they
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  Speaker 2: got to score 24 points at least this week to
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: have a shot, right?
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: We all kind of think that way.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if the Broncos are going to do
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  Speaker 2: that because it's the one thing that I'm not sure
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: of week to week. I know the defense will show
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: up and play well. I know they'll give them a
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: shot to win. But I don't know... if they're going
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: to be consistent enough against teams like this, where they
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: can be in it at the end of a game. Like,
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  Speaker 2: I think the Rams are one of the few teams
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  Speaker 2: in the league that can do what Kansas City did
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  Speaker 2: in the first week, which is if you have a
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: lull in the middle of that game offensively, they can
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: turn a close game into a three-score game in a snap.
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, the Rams have already lost a game,
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: so they're not without their own issues.
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  Speaker 3: Sure.
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  Speaker 4: They've proven they can lose. I guess I'm having trouble understanding.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: If you believe your team is a really good team,
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: this is the National Football League.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Any team can lose, right? Any team can win. I
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: expect the Broncos to win on Sunday night. They're home.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Rams have a couple injury situations to deal with.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: The Broncos, by the way, I think it was Raj
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: who came up with this.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Do you know what the longest....
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: Loss drought is for the Denver Broncos organization.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: The last time they beat a team, the longest back
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: is the Rams. Really? Yeah, look that up.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: The last time the Broncos beat the Rams, Raj told
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  Speaker 4: me this, and you got to go way back, way, way, way, way, way,
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  Speaker 4: way back.
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  Speaker 3: Now, they don't play too often. Like how way? How way?
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: It says 2002. Okay, so 24 years back.
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  Speaker 5: 24 years, okay. It's a pretty long way back. But
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  Speaker 5: I thought when you're saying way back, I'm thinking like, what, 89?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, guys, they did beat the Rams 41 to
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: nothing in 2023 preseason.
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  Speaker 3: Does that count? But yeah, it's 2022. Or sorry, 2002
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  Speaker 3: was the last time. That's a long run. That's a
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  Speaker 3: long run having not beaten the Rams.
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  Speaker 4: And again, it's a good team. I'm not ready to
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: call the Rams a great team yet. They've got to
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: prove it during the regular season.
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: I'll tell you what's interesting about this, though.
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  Speaker 2: They were in the NFC Championship game last year.
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  Speaker 3: We'll see.
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  Speaker 5: They're loaded with talent, though, Vic. And again, when Miles
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: Garrett gets back, thank goodness he's hurt right now. But
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: I'll tell you what's interesting to me. So, in the
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: first four games of the season for the Denver Broncos,
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: is there any doubt in your mind that they're going
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: to be... Right now, they're a dog, correct? They're a
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: home dog? Yes. Am I right about that? The following week,
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: they're at San Francisco. You think they'll be a dog
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  Speaker 5: on the road in San Fran?
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  Speaker 3: Depends on what happens this week. If they win, maybe not.
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  Speaker 3: I guess, okay. Let me read a text.
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: And I'm not sure if brains are microwaved this early
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  Speaker 4: in the morning, but whoever 6760 is, this is for you.
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: This person writes in, this is a complete 180 from
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: Vic compared to the Chiefs game, constantly contradicting himself. I
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: believe the Broncos were going to struggle at Arrowhead in
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: the opener.
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  Speaker 3: That's what I believed.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: And I believe Sunday night they have every chance to
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  Speaker 4: win this game. They're home against the Rams. Is that
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: a contradiction or a prediction? Do you know the definition
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: of contradiction? Do you know what a contradiction is? That's
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: called a prediction. That's called a feeling. That's called an
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: understanding of where the team stands. That's not a contradiction.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: Just because I don't go where you go doesn't make
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  Speaker 4: me a contradictory person. I'm just telling you, I felt
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: all along the opener in Kansas City was going to be.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: Tough for whatever reasons. And I believe... The Broncos should
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: win Sunday night. I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Okay.
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: Let me finish up then, though. They were a dog
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: at the Chiefs. They were a favorite at home against
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: the Jags. They're a dog right now against the Rams
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: at home. And I'm thinking they're going to be a
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: dog on the road at San Fran. Would the Buffalo
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: Bills be a dog in three of those first four.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Games if they played the exact same schedule?
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: I don't know that. But, again, that's where, Brett, I
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: guess that's where I'm trying to juxtapose, okay, how do
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: I feel about this team versus, man, they're a dog
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: in three of their first four games, and, you know,
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: two of those are at home.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Whatever. Your mind goes where the QB goes. I know
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: what you're saying. Yeah, it does.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Josh Allen gives you that different mindset, that confidence level.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: And that's where we are. And I think that's what
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: you're fighting right now, Brett. You're fighting that.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: You're probably right. How about this, man?
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: If you want to put it as simply as possible,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I know what Stafford's going to do. Stafford's going to
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: come in here, and he's going to make some big-time throws,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: and he's going to put up touchdowns, and he's going
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: to give his team a shot.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: And I don't know if Bo Nix is going to
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: do that week to week.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: Well, again, if you want to be a big-boy team,
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: and you want to call yourself among the NFL's elite,
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  Speaker 4: here's your chance to show it.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Here's your chance. Sunday night. It's home. Being at home, actually,
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's a big deal. It's a huge deal
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: that Broncos are better at home. We saw it last week.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: They just are. Vic, you're totally right about that.
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: I mean, again, I thought if you want to be
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: a big boy team, take care of the Jags at home,
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: a team that punked you on your home field last year,
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: and they did that.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: And so I guess....
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: Brett, do we need constant reassurance week to week that
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: this is a big boy team?
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Well, no. Here's the thing, man. I know this team
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: is really good.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I know that this defense is going to win this
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: team a bunch of games. But when you're talking about
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: the elite of the elite of the NFL, which is
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: the beginning of this schedule, that's where you run into problems. Like, Moj,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: last year, I know it didn't result in the Stanley Cup,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: but it didn't matter who the Avs played. If you
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: asked me are the Avs going to win, I'd say yes. Like,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: they're going to win. And I don't care who's in
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: front of them. I think they're that good. When the
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Nuggets won the championship in 2023, no matter who they
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: had in the playoffs that year, are they going to win? Yeah,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I just think they're the best team in the league.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: The Broncos are up there, but there are a couple
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: of teams that I would say, yeah, maybe I would
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: have these teams slightly above them. And I think it's
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: what Vic's talking about. It's it's why it's so funny, man,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: because after the Chiefs game, my thought was that wasn't
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: as bad as the game seemed like it was. That
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: was my thought is that, hey, man, you clean up
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: some tackling. All of a sudden, that game could be
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: a winnable game. It was a fluke game in the
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: tackling department.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, yeah. It's not going to happen.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is that game wasn't as bad
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: as it looked. The Jags game wasn't as good as
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: it finished. And so it's somewhere in between. But because
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: of that inconsistency, it's hard when I'm looking at a
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: team like the Rams where I'm like, I don't know
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: which version I'm getting.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Brett, you just described every game last season. Exactly.
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Which is why this team still is.
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: Which is why I said on Monday, maybe we're just
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: going to have to accept the fact that this is
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: who they are. They're the same team as last year.
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: Although the Waddle thing certainly adds a spice to it.
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: The way the games progress themselves, it looked very, very
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: similar to last season.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: They are who we thought they were.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: But there's one difference here. What caveat?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: This is not me denigrating anything that happened last season.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: You got what you got.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: They didn't have the Rams on the schedule last year,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: or the Niners, or... the defending Super Bowl champion Seahawks.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: And so you can play that game when it's like
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: we're playing the Giants. Okay, we can come back. We
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: can play this style and still find a way to win. Hey,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: we're playing against Vegas. We can play this style and
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: find a way to win. We're playing against Washington. How
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: many backup quarterbacks did they play last year?
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Again, not taking anything.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Away, but can you play that way, that style, and
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: beat teams like the Rams doing it?
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: If that's who they are, Moj.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Is that sustainable against this level of competition?
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: That's my question.
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Well, they did it against the Jags, depending on how
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: good you think the Jaguars are.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: They did it against the Jags.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: But last year, they didn't because the Jags made you
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: pay for it.
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: But I guess we all agree the Rams are a
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: step above the Jaguars. Yes. That first week, I kind
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: of just want to throw that out for the Rams
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: because the extenuating circumstances.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: I would do it for both teams in this game.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I'd throw both of their first weeks out the window.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: Agreed.
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: So now we'll get a much better look and idea
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: of who they both really are coming up on Sunday night.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: If they go out and they beat the Rams this weekend,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I'm just telling you, it would do a lot to just.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Calm my angst of each week-to-week thing with them.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: See, I think I come at this from a different approach.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: I think the league still remains week-to-week. The Denver Broncos
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: could very well beat the Rams Sunday night and lose
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: to a lesser opponent on a different night. I mean,
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: that's just the way the league operates.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: That's how it works.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: The Broncos have been pretty good over the last couple years, though.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: If they're better than a team, they beat them. They've
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: been pretty good in that department. You mentioned Seattle. They
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: are going to play Seattle.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: I cannot wait to dive into this whole Mike McDonald thing.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to do that next.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: And I'm glad that we have Seth Wickersham. who authored
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: that fantastic piece he spent embedded with Sean Payton two
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: weeks during the playoff run last year, following Sean Payton's
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: every move. And I think he has a good understanding
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: of what makes Sean Payton tick and perhaps why other
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: coaches dislike him. This whole Mike McDonald thing to me,
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: He just doesn't like Sean.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: Well, we'll get to that audio in just a second.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: You can kick off your football weekend with Altitude Sports
• 15:00
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• 15:04
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• 15:10
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• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Back after this.
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: No.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: No.
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: You can't do this, Nelly. You can't do it. You
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: can't do it.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: You know why?
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: Because every single time, Brett, we do this.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's the problem, though. You got two guys on
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: a delay. You're way off. You got two guys on
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: a delay. You can't do it. Moj, you're on, like,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: twice the delay I'm on. Yeah. You're late.
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: I had somebody come to the house today. I had
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: to do the show from home. I apologize.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: It's okay, but the delay makes it impossible.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: We can't stay in tune.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: See? Way off.
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: Um.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Well, we're playing Michael McDonald because, and I got to
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: be honest, man, this is.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: I'm with you. I know where you're going with this.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: This guy bothers me.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I'm actually not. No, you misread my angst here. I
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: think this is so stupid. I think it's so dumb.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: But here's Michael McDonald. He was talking to Graham Bensinger.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: First of all, when you say he was talking to him,
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: The interview was not taking place at this point. The
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: cameras were up, they were seated, but this was not
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: part of the interview.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Right. So, I'm struggling to understand how this got out.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think he would do that without Michael McDonald's okay, right?
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Or Mike McDonald's, sorry.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: Well, if I'm sitting down for an interview with somebody...
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: and they publish anything that's not part of the official interview,
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: if we're just shooting the breeze behind the scenes or whatever.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: I'm going to flame them.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Without my permission, I am going to absolutely destroy them.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: You probably aren't talking to anybody ever again of substance.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's got to be some understanding.
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: This is why I believe that Michael McDonald, Mike McDonald,
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: knew that this was free game. That he probably told
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: Graham Bensinger.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, go ahead.
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: Use it.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: So here's the audio if you guys missed it. It's
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Mike McDonald talking about 2024. Remember, Bo Nix's first game
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: as a Bronco. They went to Seattle, and the score,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the final score was close. They got their butts kicked.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Bo threw like 49 passes for 150 yards.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: It was bad. But this is what happened, I guess,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: after the game, according to Mike McDonald.
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: So our first year, and so we played in our
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: first game.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: Uh-huh.
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: You know, fans will, like, tape or, like, post plays
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: from training camp on Twitter. And so it's, like, public.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: So we took, like, 100 plays from their training camp.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Good for you.
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: We're, like, scouting them, you know. And, like, anyways, he
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: got wind of it. And he, like, lost them. It's, like,
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: middle of the season. And we won the game. And
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: we were in the fight, like, our first year. And
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: so he called Johnny, basically, like, threatened to come out
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: publicly and do, like, a whole Patriot, like, Spygate type
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: of thing. He thought it was a Michigan thing where
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: we had a plant and the whole thing. So we
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: had to counter with him to say, hey, look, if
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: you come out of this, we're going to sue you
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: because it's not true.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: If what Michael McDonald said right there is true, and
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: there's no other things in the story, that they didn't
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: have some Connor Stallions that was in the crowd or whatever.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: If that's true, that they just took video from what
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: fans did, and.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: If you guys remember... I know you feel the same
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: way I do.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: When I check a text when we're doing shows from
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: training camp, I feel like there's a red dot on
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: my forehead, okay? And somebody's going to take me out.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I went to the bleachers this year. My wife and
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: baby Jamal Cale came to watch practice one day. And
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: there are a hundred signs saying, put your damn phones away,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: no phones. If you think you lost the football game
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: because people took grainy Twitter video from a training camp,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I think that's pretty loser behavior.
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: Well, I just wonder, what is considered fair play? At
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: what point is it fair play? Are you allowed to
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: take stuff that occurs in practice in front of your
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: own fans and break it down?
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Well, how do you know every fan in attendance there
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: is a Broncos fan? Right. How do you know someone's
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: not planted? Right.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: What gets me, and I know what gets you guys,
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: what grinds your gears, is how much the rules have
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: changed regarding what you can report on, what you can say. John,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: Just so you guys know, Sean Payton has hit the
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: brakes on everything regarding the Denver Broncos.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: You can't even.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: speak a word about practice until after he speaks of practice.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: It's changed everything. You can't talk about alignments. You can't
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: do this. You can't.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: And now you know why he's so paranoid. And again,
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: we'll get into this with Seth Wickersham when he joins us,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: who knows him very well. The paranoia is real, and
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's just him.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I think it's every NFL coach. So when Mike McDonald
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: brags that he had.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: A bunch of geeks on his staff comb through social
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: media to find Broncos plays and then laughs about it,
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: all he's doing is endangering his own profession. He's just
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: making it tough. He's muddying the waters for his own profession.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: Because if you don't think the Broncos are trying to
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: do the same thing, you're dumb. Every team's trying to
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: do the same thing.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: But, but, but. This isn't a secret. We all thought it.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: When we were told we couldn't film and then we
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: looked at the hill and there's 100 phones out, we're like,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: what's the difference?
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: There is no difference. Yeah. Yeah, it's public.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: Public consumption is public consumption. If somebody's out there with
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: a phone practicing or showing practice, it's going to get
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: out there somewhere. And I'm not sure why coaches didn't
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: put one and one together. I mean, did Sean Payton
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: think that Joe Phan's video wasn't going to become available?
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: Did they really believe that? Or are they just mad?
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: Is he just mad that Seattle... took advantage of a
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: loophole that exists for every team. Because every team, you
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: could go to their practice and start doing this.
• 21:12
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Every team.
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: So, do you think every... Well, not their practice, but
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: their training camp. Their training camp. Yeah.
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: But it's camp.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: It's not the week leading up to the game. Understood.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Working on it, installing a game plan and that sort
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: of thing.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: What I'm saying is, Bronco coaches could have done the
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: same thing for Seattle camp. Seattle camp had fans taking videos.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: They could have gone through their Twitter history and and
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: gone through all the video.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: It's just stupid.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: It's stupid that– coaches are crazy.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: These guys will do anything to win. They will comb
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: random social media sites. I mean, think about this for
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: a second. Think about how far.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: This guy took it. Oh, yeah, we got 100 videos.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: And he's bragging about that, like, oh, yeah, look at us.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: What are you doing? Coach your team. When I first
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: saw that, though, Vic... Coach your team, Mike McDonald. Oh, boy,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: look at you, boy.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: You went through and found these videos, and you had
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: all these geeks on your staff find them.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Wow. You should be so proud.
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: Well, that's why I thought.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: I thought, Brett, I would hate to have that job.
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: Okay, your job is to go through and comb through
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: Twitter and look for every hashtag Broncos and play.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: What a pain in the ass. I mean, what a
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: laborious project that is.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: But nonetheless... All coaches are paranoid, Moj.
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: They absolutely are.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: They're paranoid at the NFL level, the collegiate level, even
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: the high school level.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: They're paranoid. They don't want secrets.
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: Vic, if you recall Dove Valley back in the day,
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: and I saw some video the other day, which is
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: amazing to me. It was John Elway. John Elway, Jesus.
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: John Daly kicking.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: A field goal at Broncos camp, right? It was amazing.
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: But remember, there was just that dirt berm around the
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: outside of Dove Valley, just a dirt berm. See, but
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: here's the thing. With some pine trees. And Shani's like, no,
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: we need a wall. And so they put a wall up.
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: I mean, and then it becomes more and more Fort
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: Knox as time goes on.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing, though.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's weird for Michael McDonald to almost be
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: braggadocious about, yeah, we combed through Twitter videos and we
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: got 100 plays from camp. It's like, what did you
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: really glean from that, number one? Number two, I think
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: it's also pretty loser behavior to be like, I'm going
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: to report you to the authorities for watching a training camp.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Well, it's all a joke. It's all ridiculous. It's like
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: all of it. It's all ridiculous.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's loser behavior to say this on a
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: national show. It's loser behavior to spill those beans.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Why would he do that?
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: Let me ask you, what's motivating Mike McDonald to share
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: that story? Because normally coaches don't speak on other coaches
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: You know that. So why is he doing that? I
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: don't know. They must not like each other. I have
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: no idea, Vic. I don't know why. You didn't finish
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: the interview. He didn't? He goes on to say. We
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: have the rest of it. I want you to hear
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: what he said about.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: Running into Sean Payton in an elevator at the NFL Combine.
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: And tell me how you interpret this portion of the interview, please.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Nellie's going to get it in just a second. Are
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: you saying interpret it from McDonald's standpoint or from Payton?
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: From McDonald's standpoint. Okay.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: And it may provide a little more motivation as to
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: why would he share that story? Why go on a
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: national show? First of all, he didn't share it on
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: the show. This was done behind the scenes. But I
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: figure that at some point he gave the thumbs up.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, go ahead. I don't care. Run with it. Yeah.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: And I think it's the product of Super Bowl hubris.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: This guy just won the Super Bowl. He's flexing his muscle.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever. I'm the guy now. I'm the dog. Probably.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, not only did he win the Super Bowl,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: his team continues to win. Backup quarterback doesn't matter. Rattling
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: off W after W.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Dude, coaches are just wired differently.
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: I went to my nephew's. My nephew had an eight-year-old
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: flag football game. I saw the opposing coaches with iPads.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Did you hear what I just said? Driving tape in
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: the middle of the game?
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: I honestly said that I was angry. I was angry
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: for two hours. That made me angry.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: We'll talk to Wickersham at 740, but here's the rest
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: of that back and forth.
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: Anyway, so the season ends, and he let it go.
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: But it was like the Cold War. He was like,
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: I'm going to hit the button. I'm going to hit
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: the button. We're going to hit the button. So none
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: of us hit the button. And so then I went
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: for a run at the Combine, and so I'm literally
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: getting out of the elevator at the Marriott there in Indy. And, like,
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: sure as f * * *, as soon as I
• 25:44
  Speaker 6: open the door, like, at the floor that I'm at, like,
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: here he comes in. And, like, I was kind of, like,
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: you know, like, over him. And he's like, hey, coach,
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: you know, and totally, totally backed out in that moment.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, did he?
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: I was like, oh, man.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Saying that he big-dogged him?
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what's he saying?
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh. That comment right there, that sold it
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: That sold it for me.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: This guy's a little high on himself right now. He
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: is smelling his own farts. Yeah.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this guy won the Super Bowl. Why don't you
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: settle down, Mike McDonald? Let me tell you something. You
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: might be on top of the world right now. And
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: I'm not trying to defend Sean Payton because I think
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Sean Payton is paranoid in a lot of different ways.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: But his resume versus Mike McDonald's? Shut up, Mike McDonald.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: You haven't done anything yet. It's just, I think.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Both sides of this. Now, this is just from McDonald's perspective.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: We don't know what Peyton has to say about this.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: First of all, I just think the crux of all
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: of this is incredibly stupid. I don't care if somebody
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: took Twitter videos from a training camp and used them
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: as a.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Film for preparing for a game, number one. Number two. What?
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: You flexed on Sean Payton and he turned into a
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: puppy at the combine in an elevator?
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Are you serious?
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I went for a run and I'm just, I'm leering,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: I'm standing over him in the elevator.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: And, you know, he backed down. Yeah, I had my,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: I had my creatine.
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: And I had a protein shake. And I said, hey,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: you little B. What floor are you going to? And
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: then I hit all the buttons in the elevator.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there are a lot of people taking shots at you.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: There are a lot of people taking shots at Peyton. Yeah,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: Sean Peyton was suspended for a season. We know that
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: he comes with his peccadillos.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: We know this. This is not a surprise. We understand.
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: We understand who Sean Peyton is. Nobody's saying that he
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: is free and clear here. I'm just trying to understand
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: the motivation behind Mike McDonald's story. And I know it
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: was done off.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: The record, supposedly. But why even entertain that story? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: But then I was like, give me your lunch money.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: And he gave it to me. Graham, you got to
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: know something about me, dude. I... Stick my chest out
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: in elevators. I don't let anybody. Shut up, dude.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: It's almost like it's like this.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You asked me where the gym was and I said, coach,
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: it's over there. Yeah.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: You ever seen that Chappelle skit where it was like
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Rick James?
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I punched him right in his forehead and the
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Super Bowl ring made an imprint, man.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: What is the reason for going to that story during
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: this interview?
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: The interview is about you. Why would you?
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: Why?
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Hubris, self-indulgence, arrogance. I thought differently of Mike.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: I watched Hard Knocks and I really got to like him.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: That whole exchange, that changes things for me.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Personally.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: There's no reason to do that.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: 303-504-0925. Seth Wickersham is going to join us here in
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: just a few minutes.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: We'll get his thoughts on more detail into Sean Payton
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: and maybe a little bit on this story, but Arvada,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Nate and Andy are coming your way. Join them live
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: from 3 to 6 for a Bud Light Football Friday
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: with great Bud Light in neutral specials. Plus, your chance
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: to win two tickets to Broncos Rams and two Bud
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Light VIP tailgate passes. It's this Friday with Altitude Sports
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Radio 92.5. So go say hi to.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Nate and Andy. from 3 to 6 Friday in Arvada.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: So, Seth Wickersham is going to join us in just
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: a couple of minutes.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Stick around. Let's head back out to the Ramos Law hotline.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Car accident, you need Ramos Law medical doctor and attorney, RamosLaw.com.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Happy to be joined again by Seth Wickersham. Seth, thanks
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: for the time this morning.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: How you doing?
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: I'm great. How are you guys?
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Doing well.
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: Hey, Seth, before we start, I want to apologize that
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: Brett and I couldn't make it tonight. I know you
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: asked Brett first and then me second, and you had
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: to settle on Vic for the thing at the Tattered
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: Cover tonight. So we apologize, and I'm glad at least
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: you got one of us.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Thanks, buddy.
• 29:47
  Speaker 7: I hope that the show can go on.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll try.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: Six o'clock tonight at the Tattered Cover bookstore, and I'm looking.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: Forward to it.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: The Tattered Cover is a piece of history, and here's
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: the book he's referring to, Be On That Hill. I
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: just finished reading it last night. It's a collection of
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: some of your best stories. And my apologies for my co-hosts, Seth.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: They're incapable of getting through one of your stories because
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: they're not in like bold print and there's not a
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: coloring book next to it. They can't get through it.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: They couldn't get through the Sean Payton one. It took
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: them a week to get through that one. So, you know,
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: we'll just have an adult conversation here as they listen on.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: First question. The Sean Payton, the latest controversy with Mike McDonald.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Did you hear any whispers of that before it came out?
• 30:29
  Speaker 7: A little bit. Obviously, I didn't know that, you know,
• 30:33
  Speaker 7: it escalated, you know, it got as heated as it did. But,
• 30:40
  Speaker 7: you know, it was kind of funny how it came
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: out and the way that Coach McDonald talked about it. But,
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: you know, I do think that that came up. I
• 30:48
  Speaker 7: don't think that Sean Payton thought that They lost the
• 30:54
  Speaker 7: game in Seattle that year because of any advantage gleaned
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: from that. But it felt like a line crossed to him.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, you've been to training camp. You've been
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: to different camps. Doesn't every fan have a phone and
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: they're following camp and taking.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Pictures and videos? Is this a thing? Do all coaches
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: go steal plays from opposing teams?
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: Well, Don Van Out and I have done a lot
• 31:20
  Speaker 7: of work on that in respect to the New England
• 31:22
  Speaker 7: Patriots from about 15 years ago.
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: It's in the book. Yeah, and I think that it
• 31:29
  Speaker 7: comes back a lot to, you know, if you cut
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: your teeth under Bill Parcells, I think that even knowing
• 31:39
  Speaker 7: everything that we know now, after all the documentaries and
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: the films, and the books and the reports and the
• 31:47
  Speaker 7: discussions and podcasts, you still cannot appreciate the level of
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: paranoia that this crucible of paranoia that these guys are
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: raised under and just how ruthlessly competitive the NFL can be.
• 32:04
  Speaker 7: And I think that like that sort of, I'm not,
• 32:07
  Speaker 7: I don't want to speak for Sean cause I've never
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: like asked him about that specifically, but I think that
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: like that, It just exists in the air, and it's
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: how these guys grow up. And so if I had
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: to guess, my guess would be that Sean's reaction is
• 32:22
  Speaker 7: kind of just rooted in the fact that he's one
• 32:25
  Speaker 7: of Bill Parcells' children. And when you work under him,
• 32:29
  Speaker 7: I mean, it's just almost incomprehensible how much pressure there
• 32:35
  Speaker 7: is and how much paranoia there can be in regard
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: to a football game.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: One last one before my fellows jump in here.
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: So I just want to talk about the rules of
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: engagement here when it comes to journalism.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: So Graham Bensinger, who's a great guy. I mean, I've
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: met him. He's a great interviewer. He's doing this interview.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: The Seahawks reportedly felt this conversation was off the record,
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: even though it was on tape and cameras were rolling.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: What's the line of demarcation there?
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Is that public material? Where do you think that stands?
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: I don't know. I think that. I don't know what happened.
• 33:12
  Speaker 7: I think that Graham could speak to that because that's
• 33:15
  Speaker 7: obviously the critical fact, right? I think that it certainly
• 33:21
  Speaker 7: sounded like Graham was interviewing him with his follow-up questions. And,
• 33:26
  Speaker 7: you know, I think that like coach McDonald will probably
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: be more careful the next time he's wired up. I mean,
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: if you're on a microphone, we've seen it so many times.
• 33:34
  Speaker 7: And I think that like, there is, you know, we've
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: all been there where, you know, you just, you let
• 33:40
  Speaker 7: your guard down or you just relax a little bit. Um,
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: clearly he was relaxed in that setting and Graham's an
• 33:46
  Speaker 7: excellent interviewer. And, you know, I guess we'll find out
• 33:49
  Speaker 7: from Graham, um, you know, whether that was agreed upon
• 33:53
  Speaker 7: that that wasn't part of it or not. I have
• 33:55
  Speaker 7: no clue about that.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Seth Wickersham with us. Is there a moment that you
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: had in, in reporting?
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, when you were, you're with Sean for as
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: long as you were during the, the, the playoff run.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, Sean had to have let his guard down
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: because you were a fly on the wall. Did he
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: have like, how much approval did he have over the
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: things in your story? Nothing.
• 34:16
  Speaker 7: It was nothing. And the things that he never even
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: directly asked for anything to be off the record, except
• 34:24
  Speaker 7: maybe when we were like gossiping about job openings, you know,
• 34:28
  Speaker 7: cause it was sort of hiring and firing season at
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: the time. You know, there was times that I felt
• 34:35
  Speaker 7: like that, you know, he was interacting with a coach
• 34:41
  Speaker 7: or whatever it might be that, you know, I felt
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: like that the coach, the assistant coach shouldn't be penalized
• 34:46
  Speaker 7: for things that they might say to their boss by
• 34:49
  Speaker 7: me being there through no, you know, like, you know,
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: they didn't ask me to be there.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 34:57
  Speaker 7: I think that like the assistant coaches need to be
• 34:59
  Speaker 7: able to speak frequently about to their boss about whatever
• 35:01
  Speaker 7: it might be. And so there are things that came
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: up in that regard that I just kind of chose
• 35:05
  Speaker 7: not to put in. The only thing that, that I
• 35:08
  Speaker 7: think that they wanted me to leave out were stuff
• 35:13
  Speaker 7: about game planning and timeout management and usage because teams
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: could directly lift that stuff. And, you know, they put
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: a lot of thought into that stuff. And there's a
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: lot of different components that I think are really interesting.
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: You know, strategy comes in, scouting comes in, personnel comes
• 35:33
  Speaker 7: into all of those decisions. And I think that they're
• 35:34
  Speaker 7: really interesting, but they're, it's the type of thing that
• 35:39
  Speaker 7: another team could just copy. And, you know, so that
• 35:43
  Speaker 7: was it really. And, but Sean, he didn't have approval
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: over it. I fact checked the story with him and
• 35:52
  Speaker 7: I reminded him of some of the things that he
• 35:54
  Speaker 7: had said, and he had no issues with anything. There
• 35:56
  Speaker 7: was no time where he was like, can you leave
• 35:58
  Speaker 7: that out or whatever? It wasn't like that.
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: You know, Seth, it's weird because this is over two
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: years ago. And part of me is going, why would
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: McDonald even bring this up now? What is the point
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: of even sharing this information? And then my brain goes to,
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: I wonder how much more of this goes on around
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: the league that we don't know about because coaches just
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: don't bring it up in interviews or it gets published
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: or whatever. Do you have any knowledge of that? Like,
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: is this kind of a widespread thing where everybody is
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: a conspiracy theorist?
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: I mean, like I said, you– We feel it, but
• 36:33
  Speaker 7: we can't appreciate it. Like Michael Lombardi, who, you know,
• 36:37
  Speaker 7: until a month ago was the GM of North Carolina,
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: been a GM, and he wrote this appreciation for the late,
• 36:44
  Speaker 7: great Ernie Accorsi, who all Denver fans should love. Yeah,
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: for sure, for sure.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: That's a John Elway. That's a John Elway trade.
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: Exactly.
• 36:53
  Speaker 7: And he had a line in there that, like, you know,
• 36:56
  Speaker 7: he used to work with Ernie, and once they weren't
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: on the same team– they weren't as close. And he said,
• 37:01
  Speaker 7: you know, friendships can't survive this game and people on
• 37:04
  Speaker 7: the outside, like don't understand it, but people on the
• 37:07
  Speaker 7: inside do. And I think that like that just sets in,
• 37:11
  Speaker 7: I mean, the level of paranoia and competitiveness, I think
• 37:15
  Speaker 7: when it comes to like free agency or perceived tampering,
• 37:20
  Speaker 7: like these types of things, it happens quite a bit.
• 37:24
  Speaker 7: And I do think that there's an element to it of,
• 37:28
  Speaker 7: the coaches might confront each other, get it out of
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: their system and then kind of mutually agree to move on,
• 37:34
  Speaker 7: but never truly forget it. And, um, you know, again,
• 37:40
  Speaker 7: it's like, I hate to say this for the, for
• 37:42
  Speaker 7: the time, but like it, it is just real and
• 37:46
  Speaker 7: you feel it when you're in the building. I mean,
• 37:48
  Speaker 7: it's one of the most competitive businesses in America, uh,
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: So Seth Wickersham is with us, and he wrote a book.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: It's called Beyond That Hill, and it's a collection of
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: some of his finest work. And as I was reading it,
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: I was taking some notes, Seth, because you wrote a
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: piece on Deion Sanders before he became the CU coach.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: This piece is back in 2010.
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: And that was when he was running that high school,
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: and he was still– that was pre-college coach Deion, and
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: he was mentoring a lot of people.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: And I'm reading this piece, and there are a lot
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: of folks in.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: This piece– that still considered back then Deion sort of
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: a scam artist.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Is that the impression you got back then?
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: Well, I didn't know, but yeah, it happened where Deion
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: Sanders was kind of trying to be a mentor to
• 38:34
  Speaker 7: the masses, you know, Des Bryant, Michael Crabtree, all of
• 38:38
  Speaker 7: these young kids. And so I wanted to try to
• 38:41
  Speaker 7: understand it. They kept on getting into trouble. Like Des
• 38:44
  Speaker 7: Bryant was in trouble at the NCAA. There was tampering
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: issues with, um, with Michael Crabtree and people wondering if
• 38:51
  Speaker 7: Dion was kind of acting as an agent. Um, and
• 38:57
  Speaker 7: then he, of course is running, you know, these youth programs.
• 39:01
  Speaker 7: And so I wanted to spend time with him to
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: try to understand if like, he was kind of blurring
• 39:06
  Speaker 7: the lines or if like, as a society, we had
• 39:09
  Speaker 7: just completely lost touch with the ability to take anything
• 39:14
  Speaker 7: at face value. Like that was kind of the question
• 39:15
  Speaker 7: that I was asking. And, um, You know, I think
• 39:19
  Speaker 7: I found Deion to be generally well-intentioned, a little careless
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: at times. But, you know, I mean, he really helped
• 39:29
  Speaker 7: some kids, especially young kids. But it was interesting because,
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: I mean, Shador Sanders was the quarterback on their youth
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: team at the time. And Shador was like seven or
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: eight years old. And the end of the story is
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: Dion ripping into Shador for fumbling.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you got that. Let me read that.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: Let me straight from the book because I actually outlined it.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: And again, this is prime coaching hard. And a lot
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: of players don't like to be coached hard. But he
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: sets the tone by coaching his own son hard. This
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: is 8-year-old Shador.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: On this team. And the boy fumbled. He walks to
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: the sideline. Quote, Sanders says to him, I give you
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: the ball and you fumbled? Are you crying? And now
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: you're crying? Sanders, you're right, doesn't coach criers. Cry on
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: the field.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: You cry in life, he believes. Shador tries to walk away,
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: but his father grabs him and pulls off his helmet.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: Face the crowd, he insists, so everyone can.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: See those wet cheeks.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: The boy is humiliated, his teammates are scared, and other
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: parents nervously watch. Is this discipline and structure, or is
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: that a form of tough love? Is this a well-intentioned
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: coach with poor methods? I think we saw the end
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: results for Shador. He became a very accomplished college coach,
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: and now he's in the NFL. But it was really
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: striking to see him handle that. for a kid that young.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: That's who he is. That's how he, I think he
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: does it the same way with college kids today.
• 40:52
  Speaker 7: Yeah. And you know, that is, this is public record,
• 40:55
  Speaker 7: but that anecdote came up in his divorce, I believe
• 40:59
  Speaker 7: in their custody hearing, you know, it was emblematic of
• 41:03
  Speaker 7: the way that he acts. And, you know, it was,
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: it was a striking scene to witness. And, you know,
• 41:11
  Speaker 7: I don't know the answers to those questions, even to
• 41:14
  Speaker 7: this day.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: Seth Wickersham with us again.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: His book, Be On That Hill. Just a couple other
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: things because you spent so much time with Sean Payton.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Just curious, how much do you think Sean Payton was
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: itching for the first six quarters of the season when
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: the offense wasn't clicking all that well?
• 41:33
  Speaker 7: I'm sure that it had to have been. I haven't
• 41:35
  Speaker 7: talked to him about it, but I'm sure that it
• 41:37
  Speaker 7: had to have been difficult. But I think that Sean,
• 41:39
  Speaker 7: you know, his record in September is kind of staggeringly low. Yes,
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: it is. Yeah, I think it's like exactly 500, something
• 41:48
  Speaker 7: like that. And it's kind of surprising. I think that
• 41:50
  Speaker 7: like he doesn't exactly know why, but I think that
• 41:52
  Speaker 7: like he's always understood that September is really a race
• 41:59
  Speaker 7: for teams to discover who they are and to improve.
• 42:03
  Speaker 7: Like you can recover quite a bit. You remember, like,
• 42:07
  Speaker 7: his first year, I think they started 0-4. And really,
• 42:11
  Speaker 7: if they beat the Patriots on Christmas Eve, they make
• 42:14
  Speaker 7: the playoffs that year somehow. And so, you know, I
• 42:18
  Speaker 7: think that, like, that's how he sees it. Now, that said,
• 42:21
  Speaker 7: I mean, you know, this is someone who takes– he
• 42:24
  Speaker 7: refers to himself as a play caller, you know, as
• 42:28
  Speaker 7: much as a head coach. And I think that, like,
• 42:30
  Speaker 7: that's part of his identity. He's definitely not used to
• 42:33
  Speaker 7: seeing– you know, an offense that really doesn't score points,
• 42:38
  Speaker 7: especially in the red area. But, you know, he, he,
• 42:43
  Speaker 7: he's an interesting guy because I think that like there's
• 42:45
  Speaker 7: things that fans would expect that he would come down
• 42:48
  Speaker 7: hard on and really lose his cool over. And in
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: those things, he can be like incredibly patient, keep the
• 42:54
  Speaker 7: big picture. And then there's other things that I think
• 42:56
  Speaker 7: that he loses his patience over that might surprise fans. But,
• 43:00
  Speaker 7: you know, he believes in Davis and, I think the
• 43:03
  Speaker 7: first game they couldn't get into any play-calling rhythm. Second
• 43:06
  Speaker 7: game in the second half, especially they were able to
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: get in some things. And I think that he has
• 43:10
  Speaker 7: to be generally happy with the run game and the
• 43:13
  Speaker 7: offensive line and that final drive where everyone knew what
• 43:17
  Speaker 7: they were trying to do and they were still able
• 43:19
  Speaker 7: to create lanes, control the clock, and win the game.
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: When you were embedded with Sean Payton that week before
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: the AFC Championship, did you hear anything about this Drew
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: Brees thing that took place?
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: No.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh.
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: When Adam reported that, I was like, how am I
• 43:34
  Speaker 7: this bad? I was like, how could I miss this?
• 43:40
  Speaker 7: And I was relieved when I read in his report
• 43:43
  Speaker 7: that they never brought the plan to Sean. I mean,
• 43:46
  Speaker 7: I never think it would have gone anywhere. You know,
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: Sean was deeply committed to Stidham. He believed in Jared.
• 43:53
  Speaker 7: But like, I was like, when I first saw that,
• 43:56
  Speaker 7: I just said to myself, like, how bad am I
• 43:59
  Speaker 7: that I missed this somehow. Like, I don't know how
• 44:01
  Speaker 7: I could have, but, you know, I understand it a
• 44:06
  Speaker 7: little bit better after I read the full context of
• 44:09
  Speaker 7: his report.
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: All right, 6 o'clock tonight, Seth Wickersham is going to
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: show folks off his new book, Beyond That Hill, and
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: it's open to the public, correct?
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: How many people are allowed in a tattered cover for
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: this thing?
• 44:21
  Speaker 7: As many as they can fit, my man. I'm really
• 44:23
  Speaker 7: looking forward to it.
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: And you and I are going to sit down, talk
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: about the book, and then hopefully you can sell a
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: few of these puppies.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: What do you want me to wear? I have a
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: good set of overalls I just bought.
• 44:32
  Speaker 7: Perfect. All right, great.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Perfect.
• 44:33
  Speaker 7: We'll look like men at work.
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: Good.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: Looking forward to it. Seth, thanks for your time.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: You do outstanding work, as always, and always good to
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: lean on you when we have stories like this.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Anytime, guys. All right, man. Appreciate it. Seth Wickersham joins
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: us on the Ramos Law Hotline. Again, you said 6
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: o'clock at Tattered Cover? 6 o'clock tonight at the Tattered Cover, yeah.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: By the way, going into break, in this read about
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Bud Light Football Friday and Nate and Andy being in Arvada,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I realized in the read, it does not say where
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: they're going to be in Arvada.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Well, Arvada, you can get across all of Arvada. You
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: can just find them. Just look for them.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I don't want to make everybody guess which of the
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: 500 bars.
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: No, downtown Arvada, dude, really, it's just like a driver
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: nine iron. I mean, just walk around. Just put your
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: nose in the air.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: You'll smell Andy. Just go down there and say, where's
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: Nate and Andy? Should I not say it? Should I
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: not say the place that they're going to be at?
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: I'm just leaving. Keep it a mystery for a little bit.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: All right, you know what we're going to do?
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I'll announce this at some point later in the show,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: but if somebody guesses it, I'll tell you this.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: If you can guess the place that they're going to be,
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: then I'll say it. Free drinks on you. Compliments of
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: Nate Nandy. Exactly right. All right, back after this.