Latest / Father's Refuge / The Man I Became: Fatherhood, Loss, and Rebuilding After Trauma- Lorenza Cola

Transcript

The Man I Became: Fatherhood, Loss, and Rebuilding After Trauma- Lorenza Cola · Father's Refuge

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: What would you want another father experiencing pregnancy or infant loss to know?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Lost is lost.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I want everyone to understand that.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I understand it's hard to stand in there.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to be in there.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to be strong.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Strong for your life.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Strong for people you have close to you.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: When I think, it's very hard.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: When I think and I go back and I want these people to stay with a grief.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it's not payful.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't say it's not a grief.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's a grief.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that child, it's more happy to see you're doing well every day.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe yes or maybe not, but I'll put that in that way.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: One day you're going to meet that child.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Live your life, leave it for that.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Not only for you.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And even you don't have a child, go to the park, do things.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: A father is often expected to be the strong one.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: To hold his family together, to keep moving forward, even when part of his world has fallen apart.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: After losing his daughter Jessica to cancer, James Moffitt discovered how few places existed for grieving fathers, and how many men were carrying in their pain in silence.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: The Father's Refuge podcast was created to give those fathers a place to be seen, heard, and reminded that they don't have to walk through grief alone.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Through honest conversations, personal stories, and faith-rooted encouragement, James explores the realities of loss, trauma, emotional healing, and rebuilding life after the unimaginable.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Grief may change a father forever, but it doesn't have to destroy his faith or take away his hope.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Father's Refuge Podcast, a place for grieving fathers to find understanding, healing, and refuge.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Father's Refuge Podcast.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: My name is James Moffitt, and I'll be your host.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So Father's Refuge Podcast is a place for honest conversations about fatherhood, the challenges men carry, and the work of becoming more present and grounded.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is Lorenzo Cola.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing, sir?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Doing good.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me here.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, brother.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you being here.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Lorenzo's story spans a childhood in Albania, building a life across different places, becoming a father, experiencing profound loss and finding his way through a painful period by seeking help, reflecting honestly, and beginning to rebuild.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: One part of his story stays with me.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Lorenzo says his children don't need a perfect man.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: They need a present man who is willing to learn, apologize, and keep going.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: We'll talk about what that looks like when life becomes complicated and a father is struggling too.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Lorenzo, welcome to Father's Refuge.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for trusting us with your story.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me here, James.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a pleasure to be with you here.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: So Lorenzo was born in 1978 in Albania during the communist era.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: He grew up with limited material things, but describes his home as rich in love.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: He later built a life across different countries and experiences and became a father whose children remained central to his choices and his hopes.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: His book, The Man I Became, The Man I Become, grew out of revisiting those experiences, not to take revenge, but to make sense of them and perhaps help another man who feels lost or alone.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Lorenza, I'd like to begin with the values you carried from childhood into fatherhood, and just to throw away the resume and let people know who you are.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, my name you did already the presentation.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was born on a I was gonna say in a tough spot, maybe on a wrong moment, on the wrong place, but I'll keep that like shaping or teaching me.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in uh in Albania, I was I gonna say under on the on the red flag because I represent the companies that makes it like a red flag.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was a tough moment if if I go back and think in these days was there were so many things.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Even think about how the communism works, it's it's crazy.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because you c you're not able to say what you feel.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: You are not able to do things you want to do.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like my grandfather, he got killed because he opened American schools in Albania.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: My father's side, they get killed because they are rich people.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you wake up one day, one morning, government confiscated everything from you, and you have nothing.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Zero.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not only that, just conf confiscated everything from you.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: My grandfather got killed in both sides.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up on a camp, like when we say concentration camp, it's it's exact.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's workforce band.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: When you're a kid, you see things.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I wish any kid see these kind of things.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's a trauma you you bring all over with you.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: They stay with you every time.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Living in communism is the hardest part.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Many people can understand.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: But except one thing.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: We had nothing, but we had love.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was one of the most beautiful things even communism can take, even government can confiscate that.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: The love.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up with the love.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was something grateful I learned in my life.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: To receive love.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And when you receive love, and this is one of the most beautiful things, because money cannot buy it.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Government can confiscate that.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that stays with you forever.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you tell a story about giving your rain jacket to another child and walking home soaked.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: What do you remember about that moment?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you see it now?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: When I see it now, I see it grateful now because that teach me something, teach me the man I'm right now.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I remember for somewhere my parents found that raining jacket, and that raining jacket became like a symbol to me.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I will see other kids walking through they have nothing because in that moment in Albania nobody had nothing.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: One thing we're equal because nobody had nothing.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll feel bad to see other kids going under the rain, and I'll feel privileged having that jacket, and I used to give to that jacket.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say to the kids, please just wave your hair for me.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take the first kid, second kid, so the whole class, and I'll arrive home.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see myself suck it.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom used to beat me up for that.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: We found you a rain in jacket.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: How'd that come?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You come suck it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I couldn't tell to my mother because I will be in a pony.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: She will punish me for that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I used to bring everybody dry except myself.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the beautiful things I do believe I done in my life.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because that teached me one thing.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Share everything you have.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's things you're going to remind in your life, and that's things I'm going to remind my life.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I went out from Albania, I built success, I become a businessman, I become a very successful person.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Did that remind me?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: But every time I think about that reining jacket, it's something that stays very nice in my heart.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Make me feel so proud.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that a lot of people that are in a country like that, I can't even imagine because I've been in a you know an American for so long.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was uh adopted in an orphanage in Germany by a military family, my sister and I are both, and uh we were like one and two years old, so I don't remember any of it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they brought us to America, and I'm very thankful that that I didn't have to grow up in that orphanage.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I know life could have been so much tougher on us, my sister and I.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm very, very thankful that they brought us to, you know, back to the United States and that I have experienced freedom and liberty and you know I haven't wanted for anything, right?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I can looking f from the lens that I'm looking through back to where you were raised and what you you know, the the government confiscating everything y'all owned and loss of your parent, you know, father and grandfather.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I can imagine that that because you have so little that you would cling to, you know, something simple like a rain jacket.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and what little you did have, you probably were very possessive of it, which is, you know, I think a natural thing.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so the fact that you actually gave your rain jacket up to another child, that you found it within yourself to to give, even though you had so little, I mean, I think that's a that's a lesson that a lot of Americans, you know, could learn.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're we live in a capitalistic society and you know, everything goes and you know, you can you can we don't want for anything, you know, compared to a third world country.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're rich beyond our wildest imagination.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there are times in my life when I I go, you know, I'll be like, you know, four days to payday and broke, you know, but I got a roof over my head, I got food that I can eat, got running water and electricity and a TV to watch and high speed.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: You see what I'm saying?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, even even when you're four or five days from payday and you're s you're broke and you don't have any money in the account, you're still richer than you know, sixty percent of the the population on the globe.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's let me tell you a story.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was a child.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: So Dudos is by the sea.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're very close to Italy.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So one time playing by the by the beach, I found a bottle of Coca-Cola.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was wondering what's in there.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was wondering, what's that?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or it looked to me like something coming from, I don't know, coming from different planet.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a plastic bottle of Coca-Cola.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was wondering, what is in there?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: You you probably hadn't You never had a Coca-Cola, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: At that point.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point we didn't have anything.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: To be honest with you, I remember my childhood.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I can have a piece of bread with a little bit of olive oil on the top and salt, and I will go out, I'll take a bite, give it to another kid, give it to another kid, give it to another kid, give it to another kid.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So by then, one bite for everybody.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a beautiful thing.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know why it was a beautiful thing?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: We share.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have, but we share.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: You learn how to share, you learn how to love.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing I do believe while Albanian people, whatever they go, they become very successful.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's because they had nothing.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: They had nothing to lose.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And life teaches you to be grateful, to share success.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me personally, the best success for me, it's what person you grew up.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: That is the most successful for me.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Money meant nothing to me, never been nothing.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I live with so much money, I live without money.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we know we come and we go.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: One thing we take with us, it's the growth.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of person we bring in our life.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, Lorenzo, you've had to start over in different ways in your life.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: How did becoming a father change the way you thought about responsibility and the decisions you make or made?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: To me, being father was one of the most beautiful things ever can happen in my life.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I couldn't imagine with myself I can be such a good father.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't imagine with myself I couldn't be such a cary father, such a protective father.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't imagine that.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Being a father is the best thing that happened ever in my life.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: No money can buy that, no anything can buy that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's the best thing ever happened to my life.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's being father.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really say that to everybody.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid to have a kid.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid to be the father.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful thing.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's to be a father.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that was when I see my kids, I see I become unstoppable.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: When I see my kids, nothing mattered to me.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: When I see my kids, I feel I'm the most blessed person on earth.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you're right that your children needed stability, protection, and a father who showed up.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: What did showing up mean to you in the everyday moments?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I went through in some things.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say, okay, my marriage was going in a bad way.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Me and my wife was going through the divorce.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: We had no anymore life, and because of my between my wife, everything's going bad for several years, and we agree everybody had his life, and I date somebody else.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I learned one thing.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is a woman, I don't care it's anything else.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I never will put anything in front of my kids.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: I had to go through in so many things, but my kids will come first.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, what did showing up mean to you in the everyday moments for your kids?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Kids don't need many things.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Kid needs you to be there to say, good morning, my son.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: How's your beautiful day?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's anything daddy can do better for you.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: What I can do better like a dad.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad when I heard my kids, actually, my daughter say, You're the most beautiful dad.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so proud to have you, my dad.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's show up every day.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Simple things.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Take your kids, go to the park, simple things.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do the simple things.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: They are kids.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: They don't earn big things.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Kids don't know about money.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Kids don't know about rich.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Kids don't know anything about that.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Present it's to be there.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Every single day.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Present.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to them when they need you.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Make them comfort.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's a father job.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: To make your kids comfort.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to them.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, not because they are kids, we have to say, no, stop doing that.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, it's a reason.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Explain to your kids why not, why they have to do it and there why they don't have to do that.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's a father work.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Being a father is not just correct.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes it's like we have to correct our kids.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, we have to give example to our kids.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: When you were present with your kids, the kids need simple things that like we do every single day.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So your story also holds a painful loss that you want fathers to understand the loss of a child before birth.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's a grief.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's it's a grief.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So for me it was a heart because I chose to see it, even though it was a was a nothing.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was just when I I can close my eyes, I can imagine that, and I have it that every single in my day because I asked the doctor to see that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I said it's a part of my body.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see it, I'm not afraid.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a painful.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Many people may say it's a kid because you never see it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not true.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Loss is a loss.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: When you lose something because why it's a pain?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because you dream it.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the moment that creatures starts developing inside, you start to dream.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: You start to hope.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just a kid, your hope, your dream and expectation, how this kid is going to become.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And when you lose that, it's to me, it's like I lost one of my child.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And every day, what I can say to every father, it's it's you have to keep going.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: You have to keep going.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think I don't think about I think every day.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I pray every single night, every single morning.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I put my hands in stirring wheels.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had to drive to go to work.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I say, God, tell to that kid, one day I'm going to make that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not now, but I'm going.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: When I see my son, I see him.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: When I see my daughter, maybe I see her.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to meet that one day.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: What they want for us, even they can see us, I do believe that.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: They can see us.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: They want us to be happy here.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: That kid on me to be happy here.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: That kid wants me to spend time with my son or my daughter.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's I do believe in that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Even sometimes it's it's emotional to me.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It will hit me.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Even right now, it's hitting me in an emotional way because it's the hope I built in that kid.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's the dream.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So you write that grief made you feel for a time that you had failed, even though you understand now that neither of you caused loss.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: What would you want another father experiencing pregnancy or infant loss to know?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Lost is lost.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I want everyone to understand that.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I understand it's hard to stand in there.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to be in there.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to be strong.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Strong for your life, strong for people you have close to you.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: When I think, it's very hard.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: When I think and I go back and I want these people to stay with a grief.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it's not payful.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't say it's not a grief.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a grief.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: But that child, it's more happy to see you're doing well every day.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe yes, or maybe not, but I'll put that in that way.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: One day you go in to meet that child.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Live your life, live it for them, not only for you.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And even you don't have a child, go to the park, do things.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know in the beginning I used to do?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I used to take my kids and do things, and I say, today, I put an imaginary name.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'll call him Aurelio.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll bring I'll bring Aurelio today to the park.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take my son and daughter, and I'll do it for him.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Even he was not there present, but keep doing things.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you in your head, you put things, I'll do that to make that child happy.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Even it's not here.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you live on a depressed mode, you're not going to bring that child back ever.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that and we have to accept it reality.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's to do things to make that to make that kid happy.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Just put in your mind, I'll do that for you.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll wake up for you, I'll smile for you.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And everything I do, I'll do it in your neck.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: You make clear that a child the world never got to meet can still be deeply loved and deeply missed.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to talk about the pressures that were building around you during that time.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: You describe carrying financial work, family, court, and health pressures while trying to keep functioning.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: From the outside, you were still going to work and handling responsibilities.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: What was happening inside the people around you may not have seen?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you start doubting yourself, when you actually gonna start in this way.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: When you're in a toxic relationship, when you were on uh gaslighting and you start self-blaming yourself.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't see myself anymore.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I was waking up in the morning and I'll continue to say, What's wrong with me?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm not enough.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'll start doubting myself, and the worst thing is when you leave doubting yourself.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're I'll start doubt I was failing like a father and failing like a partner, failing like like anything.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: You continue, you become I was becoming like a robot, like a muscle memory.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know I have to go to work, I know I have to be present for my kids.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of career, a lot of pain.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the the hard part, I I had no anyone to speak.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't call my family natively and explain to them, listen, here is my problem.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't call even therapists because the way they manipulated you, you're not able to see that.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: You just become you become like a crazy person because with it's like an addiction.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: You wanna like it like the drugs.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: You wanna be on the you know, being the drugs is not because you like the drugs, it's because it's the addiction.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was repeating that pattern so much, and people will see me, my co-orkers will see me and keep saying to me, or they were not saying anything, but they were keeping saying, What happened to this guy?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: He used to smile, this guy being positive every single day, this guy laughing, joking, why this guy doesn't exist anymore.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was one of the things nobody couldn't s they couldn't see, but they were not seeing exactly the amount of pain, house caring inside of me.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Going through, it's it it's when you say to the people stop, when I say the person I love so much, stop, you're hurting me.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I will come to accusation, accusation and that when they I start on the point, I s I said there are three things I have to do.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna start to raise my voice and speak publicly, or I'm going to finish in suicide, or I'm going to finish on the jail because there are no choices more in you.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because what these people can deliver to you is that you're not enough and you're doubt yourself.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And having that, I have to deal with that, with that fear.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to bring you to the court for talking publicly for what you feel.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, do you know what I feel in that moment?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh my god, I went back to communism, so you're not able to have that freedom of speech, and that's the worst part of the deal.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you recall telling your children that you had found another home, your son held your hand and begged you not to leave, your daughter was also trying to think about your handy happiness while she was hurting.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: What did those moments teach you about how much children notice and carry?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: I will say that it's a message actually to deliver to every father or mother there outside.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: You ever put anything ever in front of your child.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter you can love that person.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter that can be the person who can deliver to you the m most happiness.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's one thing I feel very badly for hurt my son.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I see my son, I apologize to him every time.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I keep telling him, every time we have a moment we sit together, I say to you, sorry son, you didn't deserve that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the first thing I blame myself so much.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't give at least my kid time.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I should give him the time because that may make me feel the doubt and believe I'm not a good father for doing that.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And even I have my son in these days to tell me, Dad, you're you're such a good dad.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Don't say that to yourself.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Even my son is only nine years old, and I have to have an adult conversation.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Dad, don't say that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're not a bad dad.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: You show up every day, you will come, you'll be present for me.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it's something I'm not never I'm going to forgive myself for doing that.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you describe a period when fear became a strong voice in your life.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: You kept trying harder, giving more, sacrificing more, and trying to make everything peaceful.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: How did fear affect the way you made decisions?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a good question.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Fear affects everything.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can make Decision in fear.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when you make decision in fear, affect you in ever.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one thing I clearly can't deliver in this speech.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Love is not a fear.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: When someone is loving you and it's trying to teach you you have to be constantly in fear because it's the way the wor that works.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a manipulation.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is a pure manipulation.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to tell you a story about I discovered yesterday I had a lot of problems with CPS.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Someone my neighbors called about my kids.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: A state was not true.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to prove that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, until you prove that, you leave.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: I leave six months a hell.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know that means your daughter will cry to you and say, Dad, they're gonna take me away.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you have the police to show up because somebody presently is calling and saying you're abandon for abandoning your kids.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I had to prove myself hard.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have to go through a lawyer.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have to go through the investigator to prove that I was not wrong.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you have the other person I was together, say your ex-wife is calling CPS.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, listen, she can be had problems with me and it's okay, but she's a good mother.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: You can take to the person thinks they are good and thinks they have problems.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: If I have a broad problem with her, it's between me and her.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: But we love the kids.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So in that time, that person was pressuring me so much.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: When I say so much, so much.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I want to see the person you love, the person you had the kid together, even I lost the kid with her.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: But with the person, I said it's a chosen person.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: So she will call me and give me a help because I was not present for her.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because in that moment, I had to be present for my kids, no matter fact.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And she will call me one day and say, You wanna break with me, you wanna break with me?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, in that moment is the last thing you want to hear.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're going through in your own problems and your person, you you you trust is putting you on the corner and say, You wanna break And you just I said no choice.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you wanna break, break.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: After two months, that person comes back and saying, Wow, you ghost me.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: You ghost me, you abandoned me.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not fair, you didn't be there for me.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: To be honest, when you're a good person, you have a and when you're an innocent person, I apologize to her.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm really sorry, I'm through, I'm sorry for ghosting you, and everything I done, I'm really sorry and I'm wrong.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was not wrong because she won a breakup with me, because she won a date with somebody else, but it's okay.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: When they put that pressure on you, you hand up to believe, you and ha hand up to apologize, and you end up to be the villain of the story.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: You end up to be the guy who's wrong, and that person hand up to be the victim.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And yesterday, you know, one thing, the truth may take a time, but all come out.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: No matter fact will come out.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yesterday I see a person who said to me, Oh wow, you guys not anymore together, right?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I said, yes, we're not together from three, four months now, even more, six months not anymore together.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And she said to me, I mean he, she, doesn't matter, said to me, Wow, but I know you guys you're not together for summer 2025 because I saw her dating different people.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Wow, I had to apologize because I couldn't see that moment because I couldn't see it, because that they do when you're self-doubting yourself.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot see anything.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: You live on a dark.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're in the dark, you can see anything, and you keep it's like motivating you, keep going, you keep going, you have to do better, you have to do better.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, Wow, I apologize for ghosting her when she ghosted me.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the bigger manipulation I had to go through in my life and to believe that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that it's even I can be a smart guy, you can be a smart person, even I speak seven languages.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: When they put you in that corner, it doesn't matter how strong you are, they are artists.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: They can win with you because it's a territory you you don't know.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when you go in the territories like you go in uh areas, you get lost because you don't know where you are.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the hardest things for me to understand.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you eventually reached a point where you recognize you needed help.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: You describe therapy as giving you language for things you hadn't understood while you were living through them.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So what helped you to decide to seek therapy?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: You get on the point when you say enough.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: You get on the point and you said, I need help.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: You get on the point, you look up to the sky and say, God help me.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I get to that point.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: God helped me to find my way.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: God helped me to seek the light.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: One day I had that in my mind, I have to call the therapist.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's I went through to my insurance, I booked a therapy, and I spoke the first day.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: That person, you know, I was not comfortable because I never done therapy.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I never was like, it was hard for me to open with her.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I did one, two, three.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she said to me, but you need to talk more.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: She will ask me, and she, you know, therapists, they're professional.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: They know when you stop.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're not able to talk, something is blocking you.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she said to me, Lorenzo, do me a favor.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not able to talk with me, can you write down everything?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you can help me and I can help you to understand to help each other.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you you help me to understand what's wrong with you, and that is going to help me what's wrong in your life.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So how can I help you?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I write down in three weeks so much, and it was easy for me to write down everything.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: One day I said, Bridget, I'm going to send you.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Can you put at least on PDF on work or something?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: I put her everything on PDF.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: She wrote, and I I I thanked her in public many times.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: She wrote all the story in one night.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't go to sleep.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Next day I had a therapy and what she done, she said to me, Do you know you were emotionally abused?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know you've been living with a narcissist person?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: To be honest with you, I didn't know what emotional abuse means, right?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I never had to go through in my life.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I study philosophy, but I and I know narcissist people, I mean narcissism, but I never went deep because when you don't leave, you you don't have that experience.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't have that experience.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I start looking to patterns.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And she will ask me in therapy and continue.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, tell me, has she done that?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll explain.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be what's wrong with and I start to understand how you can love someone so deeply and that can do that to you.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: How the person, you choose to you choose the person you love can abuse with you.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And one day she said to me, Do you know what?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to write a book.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I want this one to be published.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't think so.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Yes, I want you to publish that because this is a real story that people need.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: That people aren't at least.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: People don't like polished things, people don't like anymore things they are made by AI, things they are made by by fix it.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: People aren't love to hear to hear the real unfected stories.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Things that come from your heart.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: She said it, I published.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you you certainly have a very powerful story, and I you know, I know that when you and I talked the first time before we decided to actually do a recording for the interview, I knew that you had a I knew that you had a powerful story to tell.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm happy that I gave you the opportunity to actu ac opportunity to share that with me in writing.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And uh when I read that story, I was like, wow, this this is a powerful story, and you uh shared a lot of a lot of things.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I wanted to have you on the show that you could share it with the listening audience, and uh I really I understand that there's a difference between speaking live on camera versus writing.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: When you're writing, you can you can just kind of let it all hang out, you know, and you can kind of just really put down your thoughts and your feelings and your fears and your insecurities and talk about the abuse and talk about what it means to be a father and all of those things.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you you are a very accomplished writer.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't read your book yet, but that that story that you put together for me after you me giving you some prompting was beautiful and it was very well written.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I appreciate you doing that because it helped to give me kind of a story arc to where I could actually talk to you on camera.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I I recognize that some of those things are hard to talk about because it it brings up a lot of emotions and it brings up a lot of memories.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I appreciate you being real and and sharing your heart uh with us.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so thank you for doing that.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for having me here.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: That was a pleasure and privilege to be here with you.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about the man I become.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: What made you decide to write the man I become?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: I know you just said that your therapist told you that you had a powerful story and that you should write a book.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: So what what what what was inside you that decided to go ahead and go for it?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going uh when I wrote the book because uh that was early in therapy, I was I fight with that person, so we're going back and forth, and to be honest, it was more that book was self-criticizing because I said maybe I did the things wrong.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't blame anyone in that book.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, if in that book I blamed someone, it was me.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I wrote how I couldn't handle better, how I can be a better partner, how the communication is very important on a relationship, why we have to communicate it, how the love should work.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it was all the feeling I had inside of me, and I was very happy to share that with the audience.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was because I said and I wrote that even on the book, it doesn't matter if I if I save one person, one couple for not fighting.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was my goal actually to write that book.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not dividing, it was like to make together a couple.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: So don't fight.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because f and I have some thoughts in that book that say sometimes when we fight is like tornado.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Tornado can have five minutes, but that five minutes can leave behind a lifetime damage.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: We have to think before we we go to a uh to fight.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Fighting is the easy way.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, most easy way if you say that way, it's to destroy.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: But to put together is the hard part.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: You build a house or you build a building, take time.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: But you can destroy it in one day, actually in few words, because I believe it and I had people who actually a person who wrote a comment in there.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I see even the people from outside recognize that, wow, and I had a comment on Amazon, that person commenting, wow, that is self-blaming.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And saying, and that person would probably was a I gonna say was a psychologist because giving that kind of without knowing me, giving that kind of review and saying you love that person more than herself.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a here's a real PTSD.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So giving all that diagnosis, I I said should begin and psychologist.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that book has the meaning, save a couple.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm putting down a second book.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that's going to be more powerful because it's people have to recognize patterns of narcissism or emotional abusing.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, one of the worst that can happen to human beings, it's the emotional abusing.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because you may say to yours or may ask ourselves and say, why I feel lost or why I feel in darkness.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's a very simple question.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: You open the door of your heart to the wrong person.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the person you open opened the door, that person took you for the hand and brought you somewhere in the dark, not you.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd how that comes because we trust them.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: They are artists.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: They are very smart.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have to admit that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: When you deal with these people, they know exactly what they do.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one thing my therapist laughs with me and she said, You already buy steak to this person.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: When they see a person like you, they are predators.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: A predator know exactly what they'll do to get what they want to eat.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: So for a father listening who's in a painful season and feels he has lost his way, what is one small step he could take today?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Have a faith in God.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Don't lose your faith in God.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Listen around you.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Have a fa first have faith in God.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Second, don't ignore your instinct.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: If instinct was telling you something, listen.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Don't ignore that.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because my instinct was telling me the truth, or showing me the red flags, or showing me things I'm doing wrong.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: How's ignoring that?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to your instinct.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: And have faith and trust yourself.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: If yourself was talking to you or telling you something it's wrong, listen to that.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Work hard with yourself.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Love yourself and motivated yourself.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: When I wake up in the morning in these pain days, I'm gonna show you a story.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: I wake up in the morning, I sit down on a balcony, having that cold air from the Hudson River in my face.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I said, instead, stay here and cry.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm doing, crying, bring me crying, bring me down.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know what?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's my daughter's dream?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter's dream is to be a designer.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: I opened a company for my daughter.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I said to her, Love, come on here.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me how you want to design things you want to have.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I designed it.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: We designed it together.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I help her to find the suppliers, the materials, and everything.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked her, what you want to do?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me about our dream.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Has our dream has to lie.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: She said, okay, we need to design in this way.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: We have to do these things.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Did you think about how you'll call your company?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And she said to me, I will call family.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I said, What do you mean you call family?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And she said to me, actually, I'm going to give to my brother's name.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And she called it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, I'm going to call Massimo di Bergamo.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Why are you going to call Massimo di Bergamo?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Massimo is my brother.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And Bergamo is city you grew up in Italy.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the two things I love more.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: I give a hope to my daughter.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: My hop my daughter's hope become the big strength to make me strong.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: That I will tell every thought.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Don't give up.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, Lorenzo, thank you for sharing your story with us.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: You've spoken about a loss that deserves to be seen, about the pressure men can hide while still appearing to function, and about the hard work of looking honestly at your own choices and asking for help.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: You reminded us that love can include grief, that forgiveness doesn't require pretending the pain never happened, and that being a good father doesn't mean being perfect.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: It means continuing to show up, learn, and become.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining us on Father's Refuge, and thank you for the care you've taken in telling the story.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: To everyone listening, thank you for the privilege of your of your time.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: If Lorenzo's conversation brought up something difficult for you, consider reaching out to someone you trust or to a qualified professional.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to carry everything by yourself.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: This has been Father's Refuge.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, take care of yourself and the people who count on you.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: And thanks again, Lorenzo, for your telling your story.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for having me here, James.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Amen, brother.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure for me and privilege.