Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Unlocking The Secrets Of Rock Book Publishing [Episode 291]

Transcript

Unlocking The Secrets Of Rock Book Publishing [Episode 291] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Coming up on Book Down Rock Writing a rock and
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  Speaker 1: roll book, from idea to publication and everything that goes
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: on in between. You're going to get an inside look
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  Speaker 1: at the book publishing business from two guys who work
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in the business. We're totally rock and roll.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll leave you.
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  Speaker 3: You're reading Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll.
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  Speaker 1: I totally booked. Welcome back to book Don Rock and
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  Speaker 1: Eric Sanitch. Great to have you back this episode. This
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  Speaker 1: is going to be a fun when we go behind
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  Speaker 1: the scenes to get a look at how the book
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  Speaker 1: publishing business works. How do we go from an idea
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  Speaker 1: or an inspiration to write a book to getting it published,
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  Speaker 1: to getting it promoted all the stuff that goes on
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  Speaker 1: in between. With us are Dennis Pernu and Steve Roth.
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  Speaker 1: Dennis is the executive editor of Motorbooks at Quarter of
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  Speaker 1: Books Publishing. Steve is a friend of mine from a
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  Speaker 1: few years back. Now he is the senior marketing manager
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  Speaker 1: with Motorbooks. Guys, thanks so much for being.
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  Speaker 3: Here, Thanks for having us.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks Eric, good seeing you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Steve, I've known you now for I don't know
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  Speaker 1: three four years now through at least Yeah various channels
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  Speaker 1: the Van Halen world, and you've been such a huge
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  Speaker 1: help setting up so many great interviews on this podcast,
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  Speaker 1: all these great books that come out through Motorbooks. So
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  Speaker 1: it's great to have you on. Let's start with your
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  Speaker 1: backgrounds in the business of writing and publishing. Dennis will
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  Speaker 1: start with you.
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  Speaker 3: I guess my story is like a lot of other
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  Speaker 3: people in publishing. I was kind of a slacker English
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  Speaker 3: major in college in the nineties, thought I was going
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  Speaker 3: to go to grad school, decided I didn't want to
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  Speaker 3: go to school anymore when I got my bachelor's and
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  Speaker 3: thought i'd get into publishing. Actually kicked around as a
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  Speaker 3: bookseller for I don't know, two or three years at
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  Speaker 3: Borders if you remember Borders.
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  Speaker 1: Sure.
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  Speaker 3: Then I finally got into a sort of publishing, working
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  Speaker 3: on trade magazines, and then in ninety seven I got
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  Speaker 3: my foot in the door at Motor Books. I actually
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  Speaker 3: started out writing marketing copy and then I guess within
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  Speaker 3: three years I moved over to the publishing side as
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  Speaker 3: an acquisitions editor and been here ever since. What one
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  Speaker 3: failed escape attempt in twenty sixteen, but that didn't work out.
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  Speaker 3: The luckily Quardo Motorbooks welcomed me back, so Yeah, it's
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  Speaker 3: been a long ride. I can't believe I've been doing
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  Speaker 3: it for this long. It's you blink and you know
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  Speaker 3: decades are behind you.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, Steve, what about you?
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  Speaker 2: I came into the publishing world out of well necessity really. Previously,
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  Speaker 2: I was in the music business, record business for twenty
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  Speaker 2: five years, starting in college back in Connecticut actually, and
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  Speaker 2: moved out to Minneapolis as the music business grew for
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  Speaker 2: a long time, especially out here in Minneapolis, and then
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  Speaker 2: the music business was contracting with digital media and everything else.
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  Speaker 2: And I survived a really long time, long than I
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  Speaker 2: ever thought I would. In twenty eleven, last indie label
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  Speaker 2: I worked for and management company folded and I was
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  Speaker 2: looking for a gig and I saw it was then
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  Speaker 2: under a different, unpronounceable name. But I saw a gig
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  Speaker 2: doing publicity and marketing, and I knew the imprint a bit,
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  Speaker 2: and I saw they had the various imprints, and I
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  Speaker 2: saw they had music books, and I thought, I hope
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  Speaker 2: my skills can transfer. And then thirteen and a half
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  Speaker 2: years later, it's been a lot of fun, and I've
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  Speaker 2: seen I've seen the quality of our books improve and
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  Speaker 2: sure enough, Yeah, those skills are pretty transferable, and as
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  Speaker 2: a matter of fact, I was just thinking Dennis was
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  Speaker 2: possibly maybe the second or third person I met back
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  Speaker 2: in twenty eleven when I first walked into the building.
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  Speaker 2: So it's been a really fun ride. I still enjoy
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  Speaker 2: it and I still love what I do.
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  Speaker 3: Well.
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  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people listening to this right
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  Speaker 1: now they would probably have an idea for a book
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  Speaker 1: and just have no idea where to start. We've often
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  Speaker 1: heard the phrase you should write a book. Yeah, you
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  Speaker 1: got so many stories. Easier said than done, but it
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  Speaker 1: can be done. And there's a great quote that I
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  Speaker 1: read recently about when you know you should write a book,
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  Speaker 1: and the quote was it's when you have an idea
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  Speaker 1: and it won't leave you alone. I like that. So
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  Speaker 1: for those listening and watching this interview who want to
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  Speaker 1: write a book or or thinking about it, what's the
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  Speaker 1: first thing you tell them?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's kind of related to what you
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  Speaker 3: just said. You have to love what you're writing about basically, otherwise,
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  Speaker 3: you know, you're just kind of a job or punching
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  Speaker 3: a clock every morning, and it's it's gonna it's gonna
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  Speaker 3: show in the work. So I mean, I think you know,
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  Speaker 3: having a passion for whatever it is you're writing about,
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  Speaker 3: whether it's music or something else, is absolutely essential. Otherwise
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  Speaker 3: you know, you're just not going to enjoy it. I
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  Speaker 3: don't think it's gonna make it a slog instead of
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  Speaker 3: something that's enjoyable for you to do. So, yeah, that's
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  Speaker 3: that's the number one thing. I mean, you know, it's
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  Speaker 3: kind of the old cliche of following your bliss.
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  Speaker 1: But it's an interesting point because a lot of people
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  Speaker 1: can say, well, let me write a book about something
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  Speaker 1: that's popular, because that's going to sell the most copies.
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  Speaker 1: But you're gonna run out of steam if you don't
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  Speaker 1: have passion for it exactly.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, popularity this subject doesn't always translate into
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  Speaker 3: sales either. It's a bad way to approach it. I'll
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  Speaker 3: leave it at that. You just gotta love it. Otherwise
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  Speaker 3: it's it's not gonna work out for you. It might
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  Speaker 3: work out for you, but it's not going to work
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  Speaker 3: out the way you think it's going to work out.
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  Speaker 2: I've never written a book, but I know when kind
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  Speaker 2: of that passion and those ideas and those things you
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  Speaker 2: wanted to try to accomplish, they won't leave you alone.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I think probably the hardest thing to do
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  Speaker 2: is probably just to get started at it. And I
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  Speaker 2: think the whole process, and I know from working with
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  Speaker 2: so many authors, to me every one of them is
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  Speaker 2: it's so admirable to me that they actually started writing
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  Speaker 2: and completed it and followed this all to fruition because
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  Speaker 2: it is not easy, right, I mean, if it was easy,
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  Speaker 2: everybody could do it, and so many people think they can,
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  Speaker 2: but so many people can't.
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  Speaker 1: Say I've written a book about a band that I love.
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  Speaker 1: Let's just throw it out there, Van Halen, let's just
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  Speaker 1: throw it out the surprise, all right. So I want
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  Speaker 1: to hypothetical, I want to share it with the world.
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  Speaker 1: But I'm not sure if I want a self publish
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  Speaker 1: or go with a publisher. What should I be considering
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  Speaker 1: when making that decision.
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  Speaker 3: You know, this is a question that authors sometimes ask me.
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  Speaker 3: And I think the thing that people don't get when
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  Speaker 3: it comes to self publishing versus publishing with you know,
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  Speaker 3: a more traditional house is all the back room stuff
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  Speaker 3: that goes into publishing a book. Right. So you know,
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  Speaker 3: if someone looks at usually they're looking I think at
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  Speaker 3: self publishing. You know, they're they're thinking, well, you know,
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  Speaker 3: this book is a pie, and the more people have
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  Speaker 3: to share it with, the smaller my piece is going
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  Speaker 3: to get. Which is true. But if you really think
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  Speaker 3: about the process of publishing a book and selling a book, effectively,
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  Speaker 3: writing it is a part of it, sure, but once
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  Speaker 3: you get beyond that, you know there's there's you're going
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  Speaker 3: to be. If you're self publishing, you're going to want
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  Speaker 3: to hire an editor unless you can do this stuff yourself.
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  Speaker 3: And I never recommend that someone edit themselves. It kind
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  Speaker 3: of defeats the purpose. But you know, unless you have
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  Speaker 3: design shops, you're gonna have to hire someone to design
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  Speaker 3: the book. You're going to have to hire someone to
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  Speaker 3: license the photography. If it's you know, a gift illustrated
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  Speaker 3: coffee table type of book, You're going to have to
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  Speaker 3: hire someone to buy your print service. You're gonna have
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  Speaker 3: to hire someone to wearhouse it. You're gonna have to
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  Speaker 3: hire someone like Steve to promote the book. You have
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  Speaker 3: to hire someone to sell the book. You're have to
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  Speaker 3: find a place to warehouse the book, you know, in
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  Speaker 3: your mom's basement or whatever. If if you're looking in
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  Speaker 3: the garage, Yeah, you hear all kinds of stories about
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  Speaker 3: writers who have pallettes full of books in their garages
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  Speaker 3: and they can't put their car in it anymore. So
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  Speaker 3: it's all this, you know, the sort of back room
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  Speaker 3: stuff that goes into publishing a book. I kind of
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  Speaker 3: joke around sometimes and say, you know, it takes a village,
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  Speaker 3: but it's really true when it comes to books as
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  Speaker 3: well as to other things.
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  Speaker 1: And from the publisher side, somebody comes to you with
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  Speaker 1: a manuscript, an unpublished document, what are you looking for
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  Speaker 1: when determining if you want to get behind this book?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, I'll just say it. The number one
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  Speaker 3: thing that most editors, I think ask themselves is this
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  Speaker 3: book going to sell? Or people going to buy this book?
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  Speaker 3: You know that kind of takes the romanticism out of
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  Speaker 3: the whole process of writing and publishing and books selling,
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  Speaker 3: But it's really true. You know, the first thing an
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  Speaker 3: editor has to ask is this book going to sell?
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  Speaker 3: Is it going to make money? Is it going to
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  Speaker 3: lose money? Is it going to break? Even if the
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  Speaker 3: answer isn't a, it's probably not something that I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to follow through on as an editor.
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  Speaker 1: How many people are part of that decision making process.
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  Speaker 3: It's something that involves in the first instance, the editor
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  Speaker 3: bringing the project to the publisher, and the group publisher
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  Speaker 3: if they think it's worth pursuing. You know, you've got
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  Speaker 3: to kind of get the buy in from your sales staff,
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  Speaker 3: see whether they think they can sell the book. Steve
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  Speaker 3: has some input onto whether he thinks there are channels
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  Speaker 3: to promote and market the book. So I mean, you know,
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  Speaker 3: it's probably a group of oh, I don't know, eight
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  Speaker 3: to ten people that are really in on that decision
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  Speaker 3: making process.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. You ever get some books that's kind of split decision.
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  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's in those cases that's when
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  Speaker 3: it kind of really you get down to the metrics
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  Speaker 3: of the whole thing, and you know, you kind of
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  Speaker 3: really have to burrow into the history of comparable books
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  Speaker 3: that you've published in the past, and usually if you're
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  Speaker 3: on the publishing side of the equation, you're really kind
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  Speaker 3: of building a case for the book. Yeah, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: it's a process. I've been in situations where it's gotten contentious,
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  Speaker 3: I guess, But you know, I think at Quardo we've
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  Speaker 3: got a really good system and it's it's a pretty uh,
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  Speaker 3: cordial and collegial atmosphere when it comes to stuff like that.
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  Speaker 1: Have you ever had a book you took a risk on,
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  Speaker 1: you just believed in and it paid off.
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  Speaker 3: That's a great question. I mean, I think we've had
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  Speaker 3: books that we knew would do well but did even
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  Speaker 3: better than we expected. I guess I can't really think
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  Speaker 3: of a book that we've you know, kind of taken
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  Speaker 3: a flyer on and and staid you know this is
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  Speaker 3: going to do okay, and then it's just gone gangbusters.
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  Speaker 3: But you know, obviously it does happen occasionally.
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  Speaker 1: In general, How well do music books do? Because I
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  Speaker 1: know true crime when you talk about podcasting, true crime
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  Speaker 1: is the big one. I'm assuming it's the same with books.
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  Speaker 1: How how well does music do.
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  Speaker 3: As a percentage of the of the publishing industry. I'm
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  Speaker 3: not really sure you know what would how big of
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  Speaker 3: a chunk it is, But I mean I think music
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  Speaker 3: books do pretty well. And I think the anecdotal evidence
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  Speaker 3: of that is if you walk into a Barnes and
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  Speaker 3: Noble there's usually, I don't know, work full cases of
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  Speaker 3: books in any Barnes and Nobles store. There aren't a lot,
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  Speaker 3: I guess of sections that are well. There are a
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  Speaker 3: lot of sections that are bigger than that but you
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  Speaker 3: know there are a lot that are smaller than that too.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's not as big as cookbooks or you know,
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  Speaker 3: true crime or fiction, but you know it's bigger than
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  Speaker 3: a lot of other stuff.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't realize until I started this podcast. I just
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  Speaker 1: decided to do one on rock and roll books, and
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  Speaker 1: I thought, maybe I'll do one or two a month.
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  Speaker 1: I had no idea how many books came out on
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a regular basis. But I just went to Amazon, looked
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  Speaker 1: through all the recent releases, and sure enough, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: there are books coming out all the time.
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  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean we'n't have plenty of competition.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just it does seem to be a
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  Speaker 1: very popular, a popular subject. How many manuscripts do publishers
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  Speaker 1: see on a regular basis?
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  Speaker 3: Well, again, that varies from publisher to publisher. I mean
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  Speaker 3: I can speak for myself and our Motorbooks editor and
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  Speaker 3: our other acquisitions editor Zach and Jordan. You know we're
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  Speaker 3: probably looking at us. You know, we're working on probably
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  Speaker 3: sixteen to twenty manuscripts a year. We see a few
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  Speaker 3: more than that that you know, we pass on obviously,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: but kind of getting our hands on stuff and get
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: getting our hands dirty with the actual editorial work. It's
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  Speaker 3: it's about sixteen to twenty books a year.
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  Speaker 1: And Steve, I want to get to your job here,
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  Speaker 1: and we're going to get into more details about the
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: promotion and all that stuff. But so you come in
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  Speaker 1: towards the end after all those decisions are made. When
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: do you start to come in When the book is completed,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: they go to you and say, Steve, got to get
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  Speaker 1: the word out about this book.
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  Speaker 2: It really starts for me all the book is still
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: in production really very early on, about a year, almost
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a year in advance, so i'll give you a good example.
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  Speaker 2: We have meetings pretty soon to start talking and planning
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  Speaker 2: about books that are going to be coming late spring
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six and then the summer twenty twenty six,
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  Speaker 2: so that's almost a year in advance, and I will
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  Speaker 2: have seen a few pages at this point. I will
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  Speaker 2: have been building my marketing plan for these books, doing
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  Speaker 2: the research into the author. I know they're on the schedule,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I know what they're about, I know the description is written.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I have a general idea what they're about. But that's
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: when I really get started on it, and then it
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: really kicks in for me, and we can get into
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: it more later, but from six months or so to
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: the actual publication date and then beyond.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, because I usually get an email from you. I'm
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: on the email list maybe two three months ahead of
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: the book release.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: About yeah, ninety two hundred and twenty days somewhere around there. So, yeah, what.
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  Speaker 1: Are some of the more interesting or the funny or
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: the crazy manuscripts that have come your way? That Dennis
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that you just said, Wow, I can't even believe this
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: person's you.
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  Speaker 3: Know, it's I thought about that a little bit. We
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  Speaker 3: started doing music books in I don't know, I think
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  Speaker 3: our first one was two thousand and five or two
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: thousand and six. I used to work in our transportation
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  Speaker 3: subjects too, it and you know, in the music side,
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  Speaker 3: I can't say that we've really had a lot of
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: funnier off the wall proposals or manuscripts come in. But
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  Speaker 3: when I was working on the transportation side, I managed
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: our train list, and you talk about niche interests, I mean, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: you know, occasionally you'd get you'd get the manuscript about
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  Speaker 3: someone who's you know, wants to publish a book about
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  Speaker 3: the steam locomotives of Grant County, Wisconsin from eighteen seventy
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: three to eighteen ninety nine. And you know, they're they're
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  Speaker 3: just sure that there are fifty thousand people out there
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  Speaker 3: who are going to want to buy that.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Book, and you have to kind of you have fun
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: promoting that one.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to kind of disabuse them of that
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  Speaker 3: notion a little bit, but not so much in music.
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  Speaker 3: But the transportation said, whenever you get into enthusiast publishing,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: that's when you really find these people. And God bless them,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: they found something that they're interested in talking about what
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: we were mentioning earlier about following your passion. In the
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: transportation categories, there are a lot of folks like that
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: who are, you know, hyper specialized on one topic and
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: they'll follow that to the ends of the earth.
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  Speaker 1: And also, you have to step outside of yourself because
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: everybody always always, oh, I'm so funny, you know. It's
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: like the stand up comedian, I'm funny, man, I could
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: be a stand up comedian. It's like, well, you got funny, right,
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  Speaker 1: All my friends say I'm funny, you know. And it's
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: different when you're putting something out in front of the public.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: You have to think of it differently. You got to
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: think of what's in it for the audience as a whole.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: It can't be just about right. So regarding contracts, what
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: are the most common things included in a contract between
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: a writer and a publisher? Are there different variations of contracts?
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there are two really basic types of contracts.
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  Speaker 3: One is a work for hire, which is exactly what
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: it sounds like, where the publishers paying the author and
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: you know, sometimes a photographer to create and provide the
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: content which the publisher then owns. And then there's also
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: this sort of a deal structure that I think most
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: people think of when they think of book publishing, which
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: is in advance against royalty, where you really are paying
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: the author a chunk of money in advance as a
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: kind of a loan to create the book, and as
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: the book sells, that advance earns out and hopefully the
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: author gets into a situation where they're earning royalties at
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: some point down.
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  Speaker 2: The road from where I said, the latter is preferred.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, among authors, Yeah, Yeah.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Authors tend to work harder. And you just reminded me
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: not with motor books, but I've had some authors that
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: would work be hire that said, I got paid to
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: write the book. That's all I'm doing. Yeah, and they
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: won't promote it all, which is ridiculous because it's like,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: you know, just doing a little bit to help promote
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: the book, promote you and your brand, you know. Yeah, yeah,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: that's the future work down the road.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Not surprised. I would think some some have the personality
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: type that they just don't want to promote, go out
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: and promote. Is that what the reason? And they're just
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: not into doing interviews.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, there could be a bunch of different reasons.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Some authors, a lot of authors just and it's rare
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: for us, especially for motor books. I mean, I'm lucky
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: that way. We've got, you know, some very active authors.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: But I know from some of the other subjects I've covered,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: and and and just seeing how authors have changed in
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: years past. My first start to hear most authors they
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: really did not know much about self promotion, and also
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: that some of them just were not good at interviews.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: You know, but that's real. That's really has changed. More
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: and more people get it. I mean, I think you
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: really that whole thing has really evolved because it had to,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: but also because you know, it's really that's the environment. Now,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: you know, you're competing with so many people and things
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: for that attention.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I've found the best interviews are the ones that most
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: of the time, the ones that come to me and
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: want to be on because they're really excited to be on.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Every now and then, I've had a few, I'll see
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: a book I'm really interested in, can't wait to talk
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: to the author, and it's like pulling teeth to finally
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: get it scheduled, and then by the time they do it,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: they just don't want to be there. It doesn't happen
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: But in general, I mean I can see that. I mean,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: if you think about sort of the stereotypical author, they're
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: you know, cloistered away at a desk by themselves creating
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: a book. I guess those folks are kind of playing
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: to type a little bit. But you know, like it's rare.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think, you know, really obviously you're talking to
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: somebody who interviews an author or two per week, and
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: really they're all they all have something interesting to talk about,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: they all have stories to.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Tell, well a lot of them too, even if they're
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: not gonna earn a royalty or hope to earn a
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: royalty on the back end, they kind of understand that
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: they still have some skin in the game somehow, whether
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: it's promoting themselves or getting their name out there. You know,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: if they write a book, we pay them a fee.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: I work for higher fee, and the book gets them
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: on a lot of podcasts like this. They understand that
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: way someone else is going to notice me and give
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: me another book. And it's it's like Steve said, they're
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: kind of, you know, growing their brand a little bit.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Book on rock podcasts will be back after this.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Always emotion in the future.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Let's talk book titles. How important is coming up with
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: a book title and what are the dues and don'ts
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: when deciding on a title.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: I'm terrible at book titles really the first minute, you know,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: I think for the kind of publishing we do, which
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: you know is non fiction across the board, generally speaking,
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: the most obvious title is usually the best title. If
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: we're doing a book on I don't know, the albums
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: of Willy Nelson, just call it Willy Nelson all the
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: albums or something like.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: That, because the name is what selse Yeah, yeah.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Don't get way into the weeds and pull a song
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: title from an album that he recorded in nineteen seventy
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: two that no one no one knows about and think
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: that it's, you know, a clever title or something, because
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: once you bury the keywords into the subtitle, it just
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: becomes a little bit harder to find online. For one thing,
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Another thing is if Steve, when marketing in the book,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: has to explain the title, he's already starting off in
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: the hole. It's you're not doing anyone any favors. So,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess that's just the long one that
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: we have saying. I think for non fiction publishing like
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: we do, especially in the music category, most of the
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: time it's best to be obvious.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I think with podcasting, Steve, you can attest to this.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes when I come up with an episode title, I'm
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: overthinking it. Just less is more, be simple. If you're
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: talking about a famous band, put the famous band's name
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: up front. It's the first thing people see. They want that.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: That's because what I'm listening to podcasts and I'm searching through,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I see a title and I see a band like, oh, hey,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I'm in. I don't need to really know much more,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: you know, I think, yeah, what are some of the
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: best book titles you've seen or come up with during
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: your time in the business.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, I mean kind.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Of goes along with what you said, really there. Yeah,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: they don't need to get too fancy, Dennis.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I can think of a couple from back in the day.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: What was it the first two Replacements books you did
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: before my time with the company, Well, the second, the
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: second one I was here for. Excuse that.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's that's a good example of, uh, you
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: know where we did take a line from a lyric.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: We did a we did two replacement books, actually two
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: books about the Replacements, and both of them had a
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: subtitle that quoted a lyric from the band, and the
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: second one was Waxed Up Parent Painted Shoes, which you
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: know is a is a lyric from you know, one
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: of their later songs, and it kind of.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: That would be talent show off of Don't Tell a
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Soul from nineteen.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Nice, eight eight eighty nice.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I haven't loved that record, and I love that book.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: That's a great record to be a part of the
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: company then, So.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean those those were kind of fun titles.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: You know, we've got a oral history of nineties alt
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: rock coming out that's called alternative for the masses this fall.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: So I mean, you know, I guess when I think
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: about it's more like more often with narrative style books
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: that you kind of ditch the prosaic title and come
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: up with a more poetic title and then move the
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: prosaic stuff to the subtitle. So yeah, I mean, I
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: guess I'm selling myself short a little bit. The Billy
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: Gibbons book we did in two thousand and six, I
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: think that was called rock and Roll Gearhead, which was I.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Remember that one.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you read my mind, Dan, because I was thinking
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: about that one, and then the revised and updated edition
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: we did a for years.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I always thought that was a cool cover, I mean,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and a cool title too.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so, I mean occasionally you get to
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: be a little creative with titling, but yeah, I think
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: for the most part, it's best to be obvious.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Talking with Dennis Pernwe and Steve Roth of Motor Books
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: at Quota Books Publishing, it's talk call costs for a
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: publisher to put together a book in terms of materials,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: used a type of paper, color versus black and white,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Because Motor Books does a phenomenal job. I'm
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: not just saying that because you guys are here. I mean,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: these books are so well put together start to finish.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: So talk about the costs.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm not even sure where to start, yeah with
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: that question. Obviously, the costs begin when you when you
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: contract the author and you know you're paying them their fear,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: part of their fear, part of their advance or whatever.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: And pretty much the publishers is shelling out money and
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: writing checks through the whole process until the book is
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: printed and in the warehouse, and then we're shipping it
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: out and recouping that money you're paying, like I said,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: the author. Then you know, the next thing you're doing,
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: you're paying freelance editors. Then you're paying freelance designers. You're
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: paying everyone's salary along the way, or you know, part
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: of their salary on a per book basis. Then you're
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: paying the printer, you're paying the shipper, you're paying the warehouser.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: You know, on all that stuff is kind of figured
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: into we do a P and L on a book,
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: you know, when we decide, when we're deciding whether or
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: not we want to publish it, and you know, all
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: those numbers are kind of plugged into a huge sort
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: of calculation, and this machine spits out a number and
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: basically tells you if it's worth doing or not. From
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: a financial basis, there's so much money that goes into us,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: and like you said, Eric, especially you know when we're
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: doing four color printing like we do, it's a lot
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: of money that goes into creating and manufacturing a book.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna grab a few because I have
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: them here just to show people who are watching Ozzie
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: at seventy five.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: Right, I remember that book the first time.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: But you know, here's an idea for those watching, right
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: and for those who are listening, check out the episode
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. So first off, it's in a slip case beautiful.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Is this across war like once you decide to do
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: a book, it's going to get this treatment or is
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: it book to book?
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: So you know, we have kind of a state ablish
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: series and each book in the series has you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: some sort of package attributes across titles, and you know
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: that's the AD seventy five series that we started, which
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: we're in the process of changing the titling of it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: But you know, all of those books get a slip
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: case in one or two gatefolds. I think, yeah, remember
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: timeline gatefold.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Let's check it out. So here's the basically, this is
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: what it comes in, right, the book comes inside of
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: the slip cover. Actually, before we even get to the book,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: you also throw in these nice little additional I guess
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you could call it what are posters?
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: This is?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I should put this bad boy on
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: my wall. What do you say, come on, get right there? Huh, Yeah,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that's cool. So you add these nice little bonus ideas
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: where these are collector's items that you put in there,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and what else is or what's this year? Let's see
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: what else?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Do we go?
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Oh? This is cool? You got the glossy colored photo
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: of the oz Man.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a shot by Robert Robert Alford who used
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: to be a photographer for Cream.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Oh really okay, But then as you get to look
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: at the just to cover itself, you got Ozzie's sunglasses
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: and it's got this really cool material, so it's like
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: shiny where his sunglasses are, and there's Ozzie screaming like
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a madman. Yeah. But as you're now inside, it's laid
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: out so beautifully color. That's the timeline which folds out.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: So I mean I have to imagine this is quite costly,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: but well worth it on the back end when you
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: when you get because you must, I mean, you got
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: these rabid Ozzie fans that are gonna buy this book,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and so the idea is you want to give them quality.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: You want to give them something that because these are
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: books that aren't just you read. These are like you
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: put these out on a coffee table and friends are
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: coming over, and this is like it's like I always
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: a piece of the furniture, you know.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I always equated those books and being just a massive
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: music and rock bands, I am always equated, you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: those big f seventy five books. The package and all
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: that is like the equivalent of a box set, right right.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, gorgeous packaging, high quality, looks great on your shelf,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: but there's also so much stuff in there as a
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: retrospective of that artist or band's career, like a great
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: box set. I mean, when you get a cool box set,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: you're getting the booklet, you're getting the packaging, you're getting everything,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and it's something that you're going to keep for a
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: really long time.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: But it's clearly above and beyond. So anybody that buys
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: these books knows that whoever put this together and it
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: is Motorbooks, that they went above and beyond. They wanted
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: to give you something, give you the fans, something beyond,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: just something to read, which is great because there's a
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: lot of great books to read. But again, this is
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: something you put in the living room or the dining room.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You got friends come over and they see that they're
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: looking through it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: It it helps set between Dennis myself and he mentioned
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: the two other people on the Motorbooks team, Zach and Jordan.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: We're all like really huge music heads. I mean, you know,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: we love different genres. You know, maybe it might be
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: more passionate about diferent genres, but probably not a day
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: or two goes by on our internal corporate chat where
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: we're not throwing some link at each other about something
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: that we saw in consequence of sound or some other thing.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: That might mean a few hysterical comments or a few
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: things that remind you of something back in the day.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, so it helps that we're super passionate fans.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Are you inspired by other publishers from when you grew
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: up as kids or or books that you read does
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: that come into it totally.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: It was a complete book where when I was a kid,
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: you know, I played sports and stuff, but I also
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: remember spending like nice beautiful summer days in the in
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: the you know, public library and the small towns I
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: grew up in northern Minnesota. Yeah, I mean, I still,
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: you know, vividly remember illustrated books that my parents had
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: around the house as a kid, or that they would
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: buy me when I was a kid, or that I
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: would find in the library. And in some cases, you know,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I've kind of gone back and search those books out
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: on eBay just to have a copy for myself because
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: at some point my mom invariably sold it at a
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: garage sale or something. It doesn't exist anymore. But yeah,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: That's running through your mind while you're making these decisions.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I can't remember like the smell and
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: the tactile feel of some books from when I was
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: a kid.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. Cover design that's got to be really important.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: What's the process publisher goes through to come up with
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the design that everybody agrees on, and what are the challenges.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: That could be a lot of fun.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I mean we talked about contentious stuff earlier.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: For some reason, everyone feels invested in the cover, it
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: seems like.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: And everybody has an opinion.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Some people have three opinions, which.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Is welcome, You've welcomed the passion. But at some point
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: make a decision.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I mean generally, you know, the photo selection or a
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: music list at least, you know, it's kind of starts
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: with with the editor and the author choosing and bird
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: dogging photos that you know are best representative of what
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: the content of the book is going to be. I
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: will say, you know, we talked about, you know, the
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: team that goes into building a book. We have such
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: an incredible creative team at Motor Books. They work out
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: of our Massachusetts office actually, but you know, like that
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Ozzie book you held up back there, you know, the
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: laminated effect on the glasses, you know, that's stuff that
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: you know, our creative team usually comes up with, you know,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: those ideas, and then they go out and execute them.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Not just our creative team, but also our production team
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: is kind of liaises between the creative design team and
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: the printers and the pre press houses. So yeah, I mean,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I mean there's a lot that goes into a cover.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: You know, it's got to be a cover that is
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: a representative of the content, like I said, but also
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: that again Steve can can put out into the world
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: and attract interest with the cover, and that you know,
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: our sales staff can do the same with when when
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: they're out on sales calls and things like that. And
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: it also needs to look good on Amazon too, which
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: is sure. No, you know, the question is not only
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: you know, how does the book look when you're holding
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: it into your hands, but how how does it look
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: when it's as big as a thumbnail on a screen,
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: on a phone book.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: On rock podcasts. Will be back after this.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna need some flyers and uh set of thirty
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: white ball bearings. Black Fred gets here before I'm back.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: You can tell the start without me.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Hell you need ball bearings.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Come on, guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: refresher course. Hey, it's all ball bearings nowadays.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Here's a question that just came to mind. This is
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: actually something Steve I think we talked about a while
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: back when when the Van Halen at fifty book came out.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: As far as legal issues, other legal legal issues that
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: you come up with, like for the Vanhaling one. You
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: have the red, black and white stripes, but you didn't
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: have the actual van Halen logo. You had something that
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: was similar to it. So I'm assuming like with Kiss too,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: write you have to be careful there's trademark or copyright.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, so I mean you know when you when you
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: have to trademark like word marks like the you know,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: the Kiss one is a great example, unless you're titling
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: the book is the unofficial whatever history of Kiss or
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: you know something like that. You really want to stay
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: away from the famous kiss wordmark or the famous Van
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Halen logo that like you have hanging up behind you.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Eric, Yeah, otherwise you're getting a call from Gene Simmons
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: you have infringed on my copyright. Who You're a handsome,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: charming man, Stephen, But I'm assuing you people. Yeah, you
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: get Paul Stanley.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, I mean you have to kind of be careful
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: for sure, Eric, But we also put a disclaimer on
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: the copyright page of our book. You know, it's kind
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: of just to be extra safe.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I guess do you have any favorite book covers? Not
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: just for motor books, but just like you say, growing
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: up as a kid, Steve, you as well.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean when I think about motor Books
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: and Quarto again, full props for a creative department. This
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Prince Book that we just did.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: You read my mind, you read my upside downside down,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: that is that may be the best of them all.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: It's got that velvet field.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: To you know, this purple flocked cover and the gold
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: foil on the forty and then again a slip case.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: There are a couple others that we did long ago
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: under our former Voyager rest imprint, which was what we
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: were doing music books under for a long time. Does
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Beatles versus the Stones thing and I don't know if
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I can do it here, but it has a lenticular cover,
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: lenticular insect and so when you turn it it changes
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: from a photo of the Beatles to the rolling Stones.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Very cool. So that was I think that one come out.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: I think that was two thousand and nine ish.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, so that's before I was doing the show Steve otherwise,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: before I was working for the company. Yeah, Andreas Swinson
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: did that, wrote the Prince Book. It was funny.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, she's great.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: She was a great cast.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: And then maybe my favorite one is this a C
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: D C book we did. I think this was also
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: like two thousand and eight or two thousand and nine.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: But this was just kind of like a wild idea
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: that you know, I threw out there and I never
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: thought it would come to fruition. For the art director
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: for the book put a little spinner in there, so.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Very cool.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: You can spin angus on the stage.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what I remember. I interviewed the
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: guy who runs the website songfacts dot com, Carl Wiser,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: great guy from Connecticut. Small world again, but I remember
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I interviewed him and I said to him, you know,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: just pull out some books that you want to talk
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: about on the show, and that was one of them.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: And that's the first thing you said is for he goes.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: First thing I noticed was this cover. It was amazing that,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: you know, it was like a turntable the thing. So
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: it's certainly got people's attention. Steve, do you have any Yeah.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Well it's funny because Dennis reminded me a few years
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: after that. Just few years ago we did an a
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: c DC album by album and I'm a huge ac
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: DC fan, read everything about them, but that book I
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: think it was I don't have an arms reach here,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: but it was red and black.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I haven't absolutely.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I mean when I look at covers I think of
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: it reminds me of back in the day when I
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: was hanging posters and record stores, and I think that
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: would make a cool poster it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that's thought. That was just badass. Yep. The author got
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: the SG the hat he's looking down. I mean, yeah,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: that's ay a CDC at fifty. Yeah, that one in particular.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Two, Yeah, a different one.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I was thinking that's a good reminder too, because I
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: also love that one as well. Are some of my
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: absolute favorites.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look for so yeah, those point they're all bad ass.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Anything that has Angus on the cover.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those two really stood out. And you know, it's
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: funny we mentioned that Replacements book.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I remember.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I'm still mad I never kept a copy of that
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: because it's out of print and so many copies in
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: my cubicle and.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: People people are asking and seeing some money for that
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: book on eBay.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Really yeah, but it was yellow and black. It was
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: just that thing just jumped out at you.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: So it had sort of the crime tape. Yes, yeah,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: I have a copy.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I should find that while you look for that, Steve,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: what about you bucket list books, because I know you
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: love cheap trick, and there's the books out there on
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: cheap trick I know, But are there any bands that
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: you say, man, that really needs to be or a
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: singer or a specific solo artist. Oh that's the replacement when.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's coming at just swinging the man that is
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: just so badass. Again, that's those those are the covers.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: I think it just reminds me of, you know, walking
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: into a record store and just seeing these. You can
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: imagine that as a big poster hanging in a window, right,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I mean it's absolute that part.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, what about bucket list books? We'll start with you, Steve,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: a book that you said, man, how come this hasn't
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: been written yet? Man, I love to get behind.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I can get really esoteric on some stuff that would
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: never be printed, like, for instance, I would or I
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: shouldn't say, never be printed. But there's been books. But
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I would love to see our treatment on one of
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: my all time favorite bands is Y and T. I'd
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: love to see it. I'd love to see a cheap
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Trick at you know fifty five, you know, a big,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: deep dive sort of book on cheap Trick Lately, I've
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: been listening to and and and there might be one
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: out there, but I would love to see like a definitive,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: deep illustrated history on the Ramones. Lately, I just really
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: been getting into them. And I was reading a reading
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: a big Power pop encyclopedia, and there's a big which
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I can't even we didn't publish it, but there's a
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: huge chapter on the Ramones in there. So you know,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I go back and start, you know, watch Edge of
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: the Century and End of the Century, that great document. Yeah, average,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: just the last literally like last two or three days,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: that's been in my head, I got to think, I'm like, man,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: what I would give for like a big I can
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: even envision it, you know. It looks looks like a
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: gritty New York street corner, right bricks or whatever or something. Yeah,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: and you know, and just something where it's just it's
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: just this really deep illustrative dive into the Ramones in particular.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: And I back in the day I wasn't necessarily a
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: big Ramones fan. Now I certainly appreciate it, but it's
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: that history, and I don't know if there's really a
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: book like that. So just very recently that's been stuck
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: in my head.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Before we asked Dennis for his buckle list books. Just
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: so you know, a friend of the show, Tim Durling,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: self published a book on Y and T called Down
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: for the Count.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: You have Thanks to you, thanks to your podcast, I
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: have it.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: So shout out to Tim for that, because he really
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: he's self published and puts a lot of passion into
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: those bands. Like you said, there just hasn't been enough
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: on them. I think he's got one a Night Ranger
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: coming out so too. But anyway, so Dennis, what about
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: you the book that you've to get published? It you
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: really would love to.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: At the risk of giving away ideas to other publishers,
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: I'd love to see a book on all the gear
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: in Wilco's loft space in Chicago, you know, just a crazy,
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: insane collection of guitars and amplifiers and effects pedals that
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: they have. I think, I think that would be a
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: really cool book. I've been thinking more about narrative books
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: lately than than, you know, coffee table books. I'd love
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: to read an autobiography by Mike Watt, the bass player
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: of the Minutemen fire Hose. You know, I think a
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: book on its Steve Albini would be interesting.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Who sadly just recently passed.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fun to think about, you know, you know
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: what what your bucket list would be, I guess.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: But well, also what about, you know, looking into the future,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: what types of books will work, because I wonder you
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: can't go to the world too much on certain topics.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: But I think there's always an avenue you can go
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: down that hasn't You haven't gone down yet on all
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of these bands. And I'm thinking about two things. One
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: James Campion, another friend of the podcast. He's coming on
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: again soon for his He's got a book on Prince
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: but he wrote a book all about Hey Jude book,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: a whole book devoted to one song is fascinating. I
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: supposed it depends on the song. I mean, we're talking
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: about the Beatles, but you could do that. And another
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: one that I thought was interesting. This is for a
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: different publisher, but it was a book all about stories
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: from the fans of the band, the Kinks, and the
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: publisher took a risk on it because they weren't sure.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Now I don't know how well the book's done, but
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I have a feeling it's done well, only because the
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: response to the episode when I had the author on
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: the numbers are higher than so many others, and the comments,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: people commenting on it, people really getting into it, people
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: saying I'm gonna the book now that I listened to
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: this episode. So I thought, Okay, might be onto something there,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: because fans are passionate and they have great stories. I
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: mean literally stories about the basis from the Kinks back
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: in the day when they were just becoming famous. He
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: literally just showed up at one of the fan club
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: member's door one day and had tea with the with
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the It was the girl she was a fan and
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: knocks on the door and the mom's like, can I
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: help you, you know, and he just shows up because
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: she wrote a letter to him. So I just thought
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: that was cool. All those stories, you compile them, you
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: could come up with something pretty cool with any band.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody I have to tell you, tell you my
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: story of Dave Davies and Ray Davies. But yeah, that
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: might be another podcast. But I was just I was
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: just thinking, I don't know if there's ever been I've
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: really been obsessed for a long time. I wouldn't say obsessed,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: but I've really really been into like almost just digging
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: out and finding and really getting into bob Ezrin, the producer.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Bob Ezrin guys produced. You think he his production work
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: is so varied. I mean from Alice Cooper to the
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Jayhawks to you know, he's single handedly helped resurrect some
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: of Deep Purple's best output in the second half of
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: their career, with what four or five albums, and he
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: gets co writes on every record. And then there's you know,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: think of Destroyer Pink Floyd.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've just he's on some surprising records that
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: yeahn't even.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Think I would read an autobiography or biography on him,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: an oral history anything, because I just think. I just
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I buy records that I don't didn't know
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: he was a part of, just because he's a part
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: You know, do we know if he's written a book.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I don't. I'd have to look it up. I mean,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I do not know. I don't think he's.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Written I don't think so now that would be a
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: great book.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: But I love reading books on producers. I mean, what
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: was it two years ago, Tom Wrman on the Jawbone imprint,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: who we used to distribute years ago, but the Tom
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Morman book was fascinating. You know, I love hearing those.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: For me, it's always I love to hear and read
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: anything behind the proverbial curtain, you know. I love to
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: read how things were put together and behind the scenes
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: stories and things and what happened.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I'm so with you on that, Steve. There was a
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: book called Behind the Boards by Jake Brown. This is
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: going back aways now, but he interviewed all of these
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: engineers producers, and they had all these stories, the minutia,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the stuff behind the scenes. And one that always comes
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: to mind, and I tell the story so many times,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: but it was I think it was the engineer for
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Thunderstruck and acdc's Razor's Edge, and when they were doing Thunderstruck,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Angus did the entire but then little litle one take,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: one take, and there was a cigarette he lit up
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: to start and by the end the cigarette but just
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: burned down right there. But he was so focused, laser focused,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and all they had to do was just fade it
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: down and fade it up throughout the song. Mike Fraser, right,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Mike Fraser, Yeah, got it.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Those fly on the Wall type of books are, you know,
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: it's kind of what those are kind of bringing you
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: in on the creative process a little bit, which is
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: pretty interesting. There's a lot of value to that, I
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: think for music fans.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: But I'm also on the other side of this, and
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what you guys think about this.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: When you have a band where there's been so many
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: books written about them, I don't have a problem if
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: somebody writes another book on them and it's not anything
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: new or adventurous or anything. But the way I look
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: at it as somebody who loves this music and this genre,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: just the fact that they're just keeping that band's name alive.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: And there's a whole new generation of younger people that
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: really don't realize that there are a bunch of books
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: that were written about them before, and they happen to
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: see this one come up on the internet at Amazon whatever,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: and they say, oh yeah, let me buy it. Curious
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: about this band? I never you know, I don't know
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: much about them, But there are people who just they
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: just they'll criticize a book if it doesn't have anything
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: new in it. What's your position on.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: That, Well, I mean, well, let's take a Rush as
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: a good example. I think we've got a book twenty
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: one twelve that we're working on for I think next spring,
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: and that will be what's Steve, the fourth rushbook we've done. Yeah,
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: I think if you find new ways to approach a subject,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: it's fine. There's invariably going to be you know, overlap
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: among the books, especially when you include the need for
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: a big selection of photography in the books as well.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: Not only is your text gonna be a little bit
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: overlapping from title to title, but your you know, your
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: art program in the books are going to overlap a
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: little bit. But you know, to your point, Eric, I mean,
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: there is something evangelical to what we do. I guess
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: for lack of a better word, and so much as
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: we are I think putting the word out about these
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: bands and hopefully introducing rush To, not that they need
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: our help introducing rush To. You know, a new generation
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: of fans or you know, maybe even older music fans
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: who never really got into them, you know, when they
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: were teenagers in the seventies or whatever. There's always going
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: to be people out there. Social media is kind of
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: democratize things a little bit, so no everyone has a
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: soapbox that they can get on, and it's pretty difficult
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: to avoid that sort of critical reaction from readers. But
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: that's kind of is what it is. I guess the.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Example is it's a Dark Side of the Moon Pink
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Floyd how became a fan in nineteen eighty eight, you know,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: fifteen years after it came out. If I came upon
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: a book on Dark Side of the Moon in nineteen
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: eighty eight, I wouldn't have known if there were books
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: about it before that, I'd just be I would just be, oh, man,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I'm really getting into this album. A book on the
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: album I'm behind it.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly. And you know, those album books that
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: we do are kind of you know, structure to be
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: kind of I don't know, almost listening companions in a way.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: So you know, we felt that was with that album series,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: you know, which the Purple Rain Book is obviously a
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: part of it as well. You know, we kind of
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: felt like that's a new way to kind of organize
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: the subject and present it to the reader. When you
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: get someone like Ario writing about Prince, she's going to
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: inject a lot of her first hand knowledge and she's
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: going to rely on her sources to get hopefully new
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: information on the subject, and you know, just kind of
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: create a package that presents it in a different way
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: that hasn't been done before.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: For my favorite bands and albums, and I know a
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: lot of people like this I got to get. I
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: devour almost everything on it. So even if I know
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: pretty much the overall story about something or hear a
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: lot of the stories, I love reading a different take,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: a different opinion on something. And the other thing Dennis
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: mentioned too as far as how it's you know, kind
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: of presented. I mean, one of the things I've loved
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: about the AT fifty and at seventy five series is that,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're very complete, but those books are presented
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: each chapter is one of the fifty or seventy five events, career,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: life events, whatever it might be. So it's just a
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: different creative way to look to look at it in
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: my mind. And so even though I know so much
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: about Van Hale, let's say I'm probably going to learn
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: something there, the author's take is going to be a
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: little bit different, but just kind of how it's presented
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: in that order. Yeah, it's sort of chronological, but it's
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: also in event order too, if that makes sense.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's also there's a comfort there in a
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: band that you love if Cheap Trick is the example
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I think over these, Dave, if there's a book on
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Cheap Trick, man, you love cheap Trick. So yeah, you
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: just want to read about your favorite band.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I've never been one to be
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: overly critical or take that kind of magnifying glass. I mean,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I know enough about my favorite bands where I can go,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: yeah that's probably incorrect, or yeah that's kind of the
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: rumor and now we know differently, or whatever it might be.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: But I'm still going to enjoy it, you know what
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I mean. It's like it's I'm just such an avid
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: reader and avid music consumer that way I dig into
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: I want to dig into.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: It all book on podcasts. We'll be back after this.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: We'll be back with the Magic Tons for the Armada
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: Rooms too, or Isco Swing Party after this short break
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: till then down't you go change it?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: How do you assess how many copies of a book
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: you want to publish? Do you have to guestimate? Do
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: you kind of have a feeling how you know how
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: many people are going to go out and buy this
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: book on Ozzy Osbourne or on yeah and hal and.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, that's a good question. It's a little more
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: than a guesstimate. I guess. You know, we have tools
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: like book scan that we kind of rely on to
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: know what other books on the subject or adjacent subjects
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: have sold over the years, and two we've kind of
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: built up our own history of sales that we can
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: kind of look to and kind of use those sales
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: histories to determine, you know, what we think a new
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: book on a given topic might sell over the course
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: of looking really first at its first twelve months, but
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: you know, also kind of at its backless potential down
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: the road beyond its first year.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Well, let's get to marketing a book. So, Steve, what's
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: the overall game plan when getting the word out? You
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: said something interesting in an episode of one of your podcasts.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: We're going to promote your new one but deal R
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: cast with you and Darren Beltchwitz, and I think it
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: was on one of those episodes you talked about the
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: game plan of spreading it out. Podcasts are really important,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: especially even the Nietzche podcast. You want to hit all
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: the markets. So what's your game plan and how different
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: is it today than it was twenty thirty years ago.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you when I first started in book publishing,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: and I saw the same evolution and the same evolution
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: almost concurrently with the music business. To it, an author
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: would turn in the manuscript and go, Okay, I'm done.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Send me to a talk show or send me on
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: something you know, and it's that's not how it is anymore.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: So there you know, you need to be an author
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: that can help you get the word out number one.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: You know, that's invariably with a good social media platform,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: but also someone who in a lot of cases has connections,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: does other things content wise on their own, whether it's
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: podcasts or whether it's an author I had a radio show,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: has some different kind of It's basically I'm always looking
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: for the most amount of publicity I can get. It's twofold,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: it's publicity stuff that will create the demand and give
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: people people get that exposure for the book. So while
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: I love, you know, getting something really big on it,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: I don't count on that necessarily because for me, it's
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: about finding where the fans are right. So finding those niches.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Let's say, so I know from being a fan, but
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: also from doing my research, I know where kiss fans
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: are most likely going to find out about a new
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Kiss book. You know is podcasts, it's websites, it's message boards, forums.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: You know, where am I going to place that advertising?
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Let's say, how am I gonna How am I going to
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: target that fan base with the tools I have at
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: my disposal? So that if that makes sense, Now that
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: makes sense. I mean you love to have somebody show
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: up on how its stern? But oh yeah, I mean but.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: You want you want to hit all the markets, and
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: it's so different than it was years ago, where now
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: you have so many different areas. You can go to radio, podcasting, magazines. Yeah,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I mean so even magazines aren't even no.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: I mean in my time doing this that that's really changed.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: I mean when I first started, I mean I can
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: remember distinctly looking at this giant list and going, well,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: what are all these eighty addresses? And it was like, well,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: that's all where we're all sending. I think it was
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: an Eric Clapton book way back in the day. That's
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: where we're just sending, you know, all these Aeric Clapton books.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like, did all these people request that? No? Like, well,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: you know, that's like just what's I'm thinking for the analogy?
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: You know, that's like, that's such a scattershot, shotgun approach.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: You know, and where were those places? Were they radio stations?
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Where it was radio stations, it was magazines, it was
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, the media landscape has changed a lot. But
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: that sort of strategy, when it gets really expensive too,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: it doesn't really get you much results. Right, So I'm
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: looking for reviews, excerpts, interviews, depending on the media outlet,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: and you know, obviously getting authors. I mean, here this
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: is your podcast, The Perfect is a perfect example on this.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I mean ten years ago, yeah, music books existed and
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: there was a good number of them, but really we've
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: seen such the last five seven years ten years have
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: seen almost a renaissance of more people wanting to tell
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: their stories. Publishers realize that there's a market for this stuff,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: and lo and behold, there's a podcast that's strictly on
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: rock and roll music books. Well you and you know
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: different podcasts that are just about rock and roll or
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: you know, a weekend radio show and different social media.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: If I can get those places excited about the book,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: they might not reach a bigger audience. And say Spin
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: dot com or Rollingstone dot com. But guess what my
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: book in all the five or six places is going
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: to impact and drive more sales than that huge media hit.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: They all it really didn't.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just where are the fans? So where you know?
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Where are they? Where do we reach them?
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: We got to be A year after I did an
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: interview with an author of a book on Yes, a
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: comment came up on YouTube this week, Hey, I'm going
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: to go out and buy this book. It's a great interview.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: If I'm just finding out about something and you're just
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: in and out about a book or an album, let's
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: say just now, and it could be three or four
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: years old. Guess what it's new to you?
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know? So, I mean does it matter to you? Guys?
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: When a book sells? Is it more important it sells upfront?
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Does that matter?
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: We built a budget based on what we think the
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: first twelve months are going to be. But you know,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: we consider ourselves a quote unquote backlist publisher, So you know,
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: ideally a book's going to hang around for several years
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: after its first year and continue to sell for us.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: What about social media? That's got to be huge. You
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: can't force the author to do a lot on social
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: media hope that they would.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean some are better than others. Some aren't
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: so good at social media. I mean it kind of
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: runs the gamut.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a necessity now.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: And even there's authors that are on social media as well,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: but they're not necessarily really good at self promoting. So
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I mean they'll promote other people's stuff, but oh, hey,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: my new book is out, and maybe that's all you
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: get from It's like, man, I really could have used
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: that post at alert people that's available to pre order.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: So, I mean it can be hitter inet, but I
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: will tell you this's more and more with every passing
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: year or so, it's so much different. Authors on the
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: whole really get it. I'd say about fifty percent of
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: that marketing plan is going to be somewhat dependent on
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: the author's availability and activity. Very often. That's what it
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: can come down to sometimes, and I always say is
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: they hopefully most likely know their audience best know. Especially
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: when you're on social media.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: You really need to post every day on social media, right.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Practically and with different subjects as well. I mean I
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: get questions from authors all the time. I mean, hey,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: a year ago, a post like this or eight months
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: ago post like this on Instagram got three hundred likes.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Now it got forty. It's like Zuckerberg and everybody are
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: messing with algorithms all the time. You know, they want
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: us to want people to spend more money there. So
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: you can't just post once, not or even twice. You
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: have to be pretty consistent. And I've stopped losing sleepover.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: You can search what are the best times to post
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: at this different social five different you know, two weeks
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: ago it was Instagram every Monday morning.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: You know, Chris Jericho had somebody who helped him with
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: his social media and talked about all of that time
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: of day, day of the week, when it is it
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: best to do it, how often? And he really drove
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: up or she really drove up his numbers. But man,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I have the times the job.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, for that person to do that,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: to figure that stuff out, really, I mean, because it
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: changes what she the advice she gave him, what she
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: did recently won't be the same a year from now,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: wasn't the same six months before.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: That booked on Rock Podcasts will be back after this.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Soon, okay, I mean you know where we are.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: Tell your Brad.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Find the bookdown Rock website at booked on Rock dot com.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: There you can find all the back episodes of the show,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: the latest episode in video and audio, plus a video
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: highlight and link to our YouTube channel, links to all
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: and x. Also check out the Booked on Rock blog.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: hot rockbook releases, and before you go, check out the
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Booked on Rock online store, pick up some booked on
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Rock merch. It's all at booked on Rock dot com.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: What about target number of sales that would determine whether
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: books a success or not. What's a good number, what's
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: a great number?
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Without getting into specific numbers, and books have different budgets,
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: and some books are more expensive to make than others.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I don't recall what it is, but I mean there's
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: there's a preferred profit margin we want to be at. Right,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: so the sales team out of a sales goal, and
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: you know they know from a lot of those metrics
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: that Danis talked about earlier as well as you know
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: we look at BookScan how much to put out there?
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: And those accounts, whether it's Barnes and Noble, Amazon, independent stores,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: they can look back and go, yeah, you know what
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: a similar book to this, I brought in thirty copies
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: and and you know sold ten the first week and
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: ten the next whatever. So I mean it varies from
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: book to book. But some books we've got different kind
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: of ranking systems. I mean, there's some books that have
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: a bigger potential audience than others. A Prince book, let's say,
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: might have a bigger potential audience because of different factors
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: that the anniversary of the album, the anniversary of specific
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: moments that would have a bigger number at that first year,
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: say a book about you know, a certain guitar, let's say,
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Right. It also depends a little bit when the
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: price point of the book. The higher the price point
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: on the book, the feory you generally have to sell.
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: But also what kind of expenses you have in a
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: book as well. The more expensive a book is to produce,
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: the more you need to sell.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Right, So the a lot of variables. Yeah, I was
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: a Keith Richards book sold like five hundred thousand copies,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: which is I think that's what it was. Or but
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: that's if you could sell If you could sell a
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: thousand copies, I mean, that's a win, you know, But
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: it depends on the like you say, depends on the
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: book how much it costs to make.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that Big five publishing model is really
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: something that we're not a part of it really at
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: Puerto There's been a lot of interesting articles written about
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: that and the economics of publishing those types of books.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: A lot of those books where they're paying six figure
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: advances are never going to earn out, you know. There's
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: a handful of books that are carrying that publisher each year. Probably,
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: I think we're more steady and more realistic, and we
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: want all of our books to turn a profit and
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: be profitable. We're not publishing something for the sake of
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: having a certain celebrity on our list or whatever. I
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: think we're a little more meat and potatoes than that.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: It also helps her not dependent every year on having
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: that monster, you.
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: Know, right exactly, Yeah.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Giant book. There's books that, for a lot of different
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: reasons do far better than for forecasts. I mean because
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: very often it's you know, it is publicity, is marketing,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: but also is because our sales team will find different opportunities.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: We produce co editions in different languages, so if we
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: might not have been projecting a German edition to be
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: a part of the factor at all, but they go
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: sell the rights of that book to published over there
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: or in different places where a book really blows up
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: in places we are distributing. Those are all great things.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: That's a bonus.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Here's where I want to know. Are the physical books
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: still selling more than the electronic copies?
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, isn't that fascinating? I love that. That's so
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: old school, But it just seems people seem to just
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: like having the physical book in the.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, rumors of the death of the print book have
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: been greatly exaggerated.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: And for our books. I mean, like Ozzie at seventy five,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: you showed up that you know, it's available on the ebook,
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: but there's no way that translates, right, that physical thing
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: that you're holding there. And I mean somebody asked me,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: I was just talking recently of somebody that's like, well,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: don't you read e books? I go, I don't read
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: ebooks at all? Really, Oh, it's so great, you know,
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm on a screen all day long.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: You know it. So he said, well, yeah, you can
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: read on your phone. I'm like enough on my phone,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I just sit down, turn everything off and
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: read a book.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Isn't that fascinating though? Of all the advancements and technology
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: and how it's really it's affected it's effected the music
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: business in a negative way in terms of physical sales,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: but in books, that's the that's the one, the only
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: one that I can think of that just didn't translate.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: And thankfully it's that's the one where people are like, yeah,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I know I could get I could take advantage of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: like I said, I can have it on my phone,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: but I really don't want it on my phone. I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: want to have it it's like mine. Yeah, And I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: find that to be fascinating because it's that it really
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: is the only one that I can think of where
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: people still want to go old school. I mean, we
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: know people going out and buying vinyl records, but that's
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: still they're not buying They're not buying vinyl records in
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: the numbers that they did thirty, you know, forty fifty
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: years ago. It's it. But books, yes, it's the same.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think with books in general, I mean,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: just speaking for myself but also knowing friends, but particularly
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: music books. You like to build a collection.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a conversation piece.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you got that shelf of all your albums. I mean,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at twelve of the CDs right now, and
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: you're collecting books. You know, you're consuming that media, but
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: it's also stuff that's tangible that having that physical piece
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: it makes you feel good.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Man Booked on Rock podcast will be back after this.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: Hold on.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: share on social media and let people know about Booked
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
• 1:01:49
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• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: to the show. The last question what's the biggest misconception
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: people have when it comes to books.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: I think from what people have said to me who
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: you know, aren't involved in publishing or know very little
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: about publishing over the past that I've talked to over
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: the past twenty five years or whatever, I think that's
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: still the biggest misconception is is that everyone's making a
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: lot of money publishing books, like everyone's making Stephen King
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: type of money, which is just nothing could be farther
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: from the truth. Really, if you think of a book,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: and for the sake of argument, it costs the price
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: on the book is twenty dollars, the publisher is really
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: probably being paid seven or eight dollars for that book
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: by the retailer. That's seven or eight dollars. The publisher's
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: paying the author, they're paying the printer, they're paying the employees,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: they're paying the warehouser, they're paying advertising, they're paying marketing.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: It's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the economics of book publishing.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: I think most people think if a book costs twenty dollars,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: they're giving an Amazon the twenty dollars, and that twenty dollars
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: is going in total to the publisher. It just doesn't
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: work that way, unfortunately, Steve.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Two misconceptions. One you touched on before. A lot of
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: people think that ebooks have taken over, you know, a
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: lot of people think, oh, it's an ebook world now.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: And the other thing I find really I found really
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: interesting is a lot of people are under a misconception
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: that the book retail has really, you know, taken a bath,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: where actually more bookstores have opened the last five years
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: and I think the previous ten years actually, I mean,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: Barnscoville has just been on an upswing. They're opening fifty
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: new stores a year. Independent bookstores have bounced back hugely.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, every year this new independent bookstores
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: opening or independent bookstores are growing, they're adding a second store,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: they're successfully being sold. Somebody's retiring, and the bookstore is
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: not closing. So that's been really great. I Mean when
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: I first started in twenty eleven, like about the week
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: I started Borders with nearly four Into stores was liquidating
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: and they were going out of business, and Walden Books
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: was gone, and people were talking about independent bookstores are
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: having trouble, and Barnes and Noble wasn't doing well. But
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: in the last five six years and Dennis, I'm sure
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: you'll agree. I mean, you know, book retail has really grown.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: It's you know, there's regional chains out there, so that's
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: completely wiped away for a lot of people. That the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: thing that I still hear that, you know, sometimes a
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: misconception that people aren't buying books anymore. They're not going
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: to books. There's no bookstores. There's a lot of bookstores,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And try to find somewhere where you go in
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: your day to day life where there isn't a book. Yeah,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: you go in your office, there's probably a bunch of
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: books in the cafeteria for people to read at home, obviously,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: but wherever you go, there's a book somewhere. Yeah. And
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: the other thing about being the author of a book
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: at least so many other things too, because now you
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: do you know, you can make appearances on shows and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: promote yourself and it's gonna say author of you know.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: It just it's it's like a snowball effect, and then
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: that could lead to something else that could lead to
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: maybe some television project or movie, whatever it is.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: It leads to writing another book, at least.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: To write another book. So, by the way, can you
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: tell me who's writing the twenty one twelve book. Can
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: I guess?
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: I want you to guess, because I think I know
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: who you're gonna say, and I think it's gonna be incorrect.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Daniel bucks Man.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: Oh it is.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Hey, there you go, Daniel. Shout out to Daniel.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: He's one of my favorite guests. Man, what a sense
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: of humor that guy. He's the best. This is great, guys. Well,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: before we wrap things up, I want to give you
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: both a chance to promote whatever you'd like to. I know, Steve,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: you've got a new podcast. You have to deal our
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: cast going. We can strow with Dennis. If you want
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: to get the word out about Motor Books, the website,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to let people know about.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean take I think you can access to
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: the whole Motorbooks list at Quarto dot com. We've got
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: I think six music titles coming out this fall, and
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: another Iron Maiden book, a book I'm Born to run,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: a Willie Nelson book. We have an alternative for the
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: Masses oral History that I mentioned earlier in Greg Crado
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: Greag Crado.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's so great because I know he told
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: me I knew about this book. I didn't know. Yeah,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm sorry.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: To coming in the fall. Information's coming your way pretty much.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: Greg's the greatest man. Yeah, Greg Is he is on
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Saturday Live and you get the Velvet Jacket or whatever
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: the hell they call timer. Oh yeah, yeah, anyway, I'm sorry,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Tis say no.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: And then a Tom Petty book in that Ozzy Osbourne
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: package that you showed earlier.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: All right, Steve, Yeah, well let me promote a couple
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: of books up coming that most immediately, we've got Guns
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: and Roses at forty on June seventeenth, just coming around
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: the corner by everybody's good friend, the very prolific and
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: wonderful Martin pop off. And then next week one of
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: our sister imprints, not motor books, We've got Alanis thirty
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: years of Jagged Little Pill. Can't believe it's been thirty
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: years since that record came out. There's a really good
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: way to feel old is is to look at some
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: of our book titles and go, oh my god, it's
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: been thirty or forty years. But yeah, so we've got
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: some really good titles coming up just most immediately, and personally,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: I'm still I think We're one hundred and fifteen episodes
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: in on the DLR cast. What started as two guys
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: just rapping about Dave and Van Hale and going, hey,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: this could be a podcast. And we've got a really
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: interesting and loyal and still growing audience. And then I
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: finally got off the snider or whatever that's saying is
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: after talking about for years and started a second podcast
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: called Another Cool Rock Podcast that is hopefully as it sounds,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: so about seven episodes in, and I've been doing some
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: interviews with some really cool musicians and bands and more
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: on the way. So just I just kicked that off
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: in April.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: So I've been listening. Sounds awesome. You you're the guy, man,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: You're the guy to do that. You ask all the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: great questions. And I will say, I think, you know,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: David Lee Roth has made his comeback, and you know,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: I think maybe Dave decided to make that comeback just
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: to give you and Darren something to talk.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: About, just that we weren't running on fetis.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Guys, thanks so much for doing this. So now we
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: get the inside scoop on the book publishing business. So
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: if there's anybody out there who's thinking about writing a
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: rock and roll book now you know, guys, thanks so much,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: thank you. Thanks.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: It's in the books.