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Dr. Ed Siegel – A Spiritual Journey · Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman

0:04
Speaker 1: My name is Victor Furman. Some call me the Voice.
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Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated with human nature, spirituality, science and
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Speaker 1: the crossroads at which they meet. Join me now and
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Speaker 1: we will explore these topics and so much more with
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Speaker 1: fascinating guests, authors and experts who will guide us to
0:28
Speaker 1: Destination Unlimited. How is it that people from vastly different
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Speaker 1: faith traditions have such remarkable similarities in their religions? My
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Speaker 1: guest this week on Destination Unlimited, veteran psychiatrist doctor Ed Siegel,
0:50
Speaker 1: says they answer lies not in doctrine, but in the
0:53
Speaker 1: fundamental components shared by all. While traveling through Morocco and
0:58
Speaker 1: Spain coincidentally for forty days and forty nights, doctor Siegel
1:03
Speaker 1: mused that he might have an epiphany that could unite,
1:06
Speaker 1: rather than divide, the world's religions. On day thirty seven
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Speaker 1: of his journey, he produced an eighty one word statement that,
1:14
Speaker 1: to his surprise, was just what he had hoped to compose.
1:18
Speaker 1: He called it his Laconic Synthesis, and this sentence became
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Speaker 1: the foundation for his book, A Spiritual Journey to Know
1:26
Speaker 1: the Creator. Despite limitations of the brain blending psychiatry, neuroscience
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Speaker 1: and faith. Doctor Siegel traces his own spiritual journey while
1:37
Speaker 1: exploring the limits of human cognition, interfaith understanding, and the
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Speaker 1: sense of belonging provided by religion. His website is ed
1:47
Speaker 1: siegelmd dot com and he joins me this week to
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Speaker 1: share his story. Please join me in welcoming to Destination Unlimited,
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Speaker 1: Doctor ed Siegel. Welcome, Doctor Siegel, Thank thank you, pleasure
2:00
Speaker 1: to be here. Doctor Siegel. Your early path, which you
2:04
Speaker 1: share in your book includes experiences of anti Semitism while
2:09
Speaker 1: you were growing up in the nineteen forties and nineteen fifties,
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Speaker 1: something that I identify with in my youth. Please share
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Speaker 1: with us your early understanding of religion and how these
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Speaker 1: experiences shaped your life.
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Speaker 2: Well, I had no idea about religion, and walking home
2:27
Speaker 2: from kindergarten, a classmate threw a rock at my head
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Speaker 2: and said I'd killed Jesus. I didn't know what he
2:34
Speaker 2: was talking about. So I was greeted by my dad
2:37
Speaker 2: at home with a bump on my head and he
2:39
Speaker 2: asked me what's going on. I said, Fred Weisley threw
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Speaker 2: a rock at my head and said I killed Jesus.
2:48
Speaker 2: And then my dad said, well, I know his parents
2:52
Speaker 2: and they're anti Semitic, and I said, what's that? And
2:57
Speaker 2: he said, well, we're Jewish, and I said what's that.
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Speaker 2: I had no idea because my family was a wonderful
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Speaker 2: spiritual family, but without any specific religion. I think we
3:11
Speaker 2: went to a Unitarian church from time to time, and
3:14
Speaker 2: my dad had become good friends with their reverend. Anyway,
3:21
Speaker 2: after saying what's that, and he asked my aunt to
3:26
Speaker 2: send a encyclopedia of the history of the Jews. And
3:30
Speaker 2: my dad said that then on every Friday night he
3:34
Speaker 2: was going to read something from that book. Well, I
3:38
Speaker 2: remember sitting down with him, but I could care less.
3:40
Speaker 2: I was not interested. I'd rather play the piano.
3:43
Speaker 3: So that was that.
3:44
Speaker 2: And then I really didn't know anything about Judaism and
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Speaker 2: I was curious about it. And Life magazine had a
3:55
Speaker 2: cover I think it was, or maybe it was an article.
3:59
Speaker 2: I'm not sure sure now I'm getting very old, and
4:05
Speaker 2: it had a picture of Oh, Jews in America. That
4:09
Speaker 2: was the big title of the magazine, Jews in America,
4:13
Speaker 2: And it showed a boy with some sort of I'll
4:17
Speaker 2: tell you how I experienced it, with a shawl around
4:19
Speaker 2: his neck and a kind of a beanie on the
4:23
Speaker 2: top of his head, and he was pointing at something
4:28
Speaker 2: with a pointer, and I thought, this is weird. This
4:32
Speaker 2: is really weird. But then looking at the article, I
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Speaker 2: saw there were many Jews. That was my favorite comedians
4:42
Speaker 2: were say Jack Benny among others, and there was Elizabeth
4:48
Speaker 2: Taylor had converted, Marilyn Monroe had converted, Sammy Davis had converted.
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Speaker 2: There was a Supreme Court justice, you know. So I thought, well,
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Speaker 2: I don't mind being among them, being in their company.
5:02
Speaker 2: So I still didn't know much about the religion, and frankly,
5:08
Speaker 2: at that time, I could care less. I just wanted
5:10
Speaker 2: to feel okay about being Jewish. When I was about twelve,
5:17
Speaker 2: I was in New York City with my father and
5:20
Speaker 2: there was a temple on Fifth Avenue called Temple Emmanuel,
5:24
Speaker 2: and I went in there and I said, wow, this
5:28
Speaker 2: is beautiful. Oh my goodness, Oh, I really feel good
5:32
Speaker 2: about being Jewish now. And on top of that, my cousin,
5:38
Speaker 2: Martin Siegel, had been appointed Cultural Czar of New York City,
5:45
Speaker 2: and I became very proud of him as well. So
5:47
Speaker 2: I was proud to be Jewish, but I really didn't
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Speaker 2: know anything about services until we went to move to Pensacola,
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Speaker 2: Florida in nineteen fifty, where they were my dad's sister lived,
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Speaker 2: and where there was a temple Bethel.
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Speaker 4: And my first experience was that.
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Speaker 2: Was being introduced to all the kids there, and I thought, Jesus,
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Speaker 2: these are just like anybody else. So I felt very
6:18
Speaker 2: at home there and even became president of the temple
6:20
Speaker 2: youth group and had some very special moments at that time.
6:27
Speaker 2: By the way, this is a reformed temple they wanted
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Speaker 2: like my dad. First of all, we're Americans, so there
6:36
Speaker 2: was very little Hebrew at all, if at all, I
6:40
Speaker 2: think there was a shamah, and we had a rabbi
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Speaker 2: who was really more of a scholar and a golf
6:46
Speaker 2: partner to my dad. And I felt very comfortable, but
6:51
Speaker 2: still not particularly interested in the history or This was
6:56
Speaker 2: not a particularly observant temple, by the way, it was
6:59
Speaker 2: very mainstream. In fact, the mayor of Pensacola was a
7:03
Speaker 2: member of the temple, so.
7:08
Speaker 4: I just I just became I no longer had.
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Speaker 2: I don't think I ever experienced any anti Semitism in Pensacola,
7:18
Speaker 2: except I think it was in the eighth grade a
7:23
Speaker 2: bully came up to me and said, you don't believe
7:26
Speaker 2: in God? Oh my goodness. Well I ignored him. But
7:34
Speaker 2: that's my introduce introduction to Judaism. We didn't do bar
7:38
Speaker 2: mistis back then. We did a confirmation and I really
7:42
Speaker 2: enjoyed the confirmation in which my class of five got
7:46
Speaker 2: to uh.
7:48
Speaker 4: Perform a service.
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Speaker 2: But the best thing at all of all at that
7:51
Speaker 2: time is we all got presents. So I got a
7:55
Speaker 2: lot of pens and pencils and cuff links, a Webster dictionary,
8:00
Speaker 2: and money and what have you. So that's about it.
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Speaker 1: And how did that early experience shape your personal quest
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Speaker 1: to understand religion and our relationship with the creator.
8:17
Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting story. Each summer from nineteen seventy on,
8:26
Speaker 2: I would rent out my house and travel to a
8:32
Speaker 2: different country, and the rent that I got even paid
8:35
Speaker 2: for the trip, and there was some money left over.
8:41
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety two, I was about to go to
8:45
Speaker 2: Spain and Morocco, and I have a calendar book, and
8:50
Speaker 2: I was going through the calendar book and counting the
8:53
Speaker 2: days that I would be away. I usually go to
8:55
Speaker 2: visit my parents. They had a summer home in Fort Collins, Colorado,
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Speaker 2: and huh, I'm going to be gone forty days and
9:05
Speaker 2: forty nights. It doesn't that sounds kind of spiritual or religious.
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Speaker 2: And I thought, well, maybe I'll have an epiphany. And
9:15
Speaker 2: then I was thinking, now, if I had an epiphany,
9:18
Speaker 2: what would I want it to be. Well, I've been
9:22
Speaker 2: to many religious congregations and I found them all to
9:28
Speaker 2: be fun and interesting, and I like the music. So
9:31
Speaker 2: I thought, wouldn't it be something if this epiphany could
9:35
Speaker 2: bring all the religious to not just tolerate each other,
9:38
Speaker 2: but to understand and respect each other. And I thought, well,
9:44
Speaker 2: let's see what happens. So after having been in Fees, Morocco,
9:50
Speaker 2: which is like walking into the Bible, there's a period
9:54
Speaker 2: of this old city where they still dress in biblical dress,
9:58
Speaker 2: and you see donkey he's carrying things, and you see
10:01
Speaker 2: people making things.
10:03
Speaker 4: Out of wood.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if that had anything to do with
10:07
Speaker 2: this eventual epiphany. But on the thirty seventh day of
10:11
Speaker 2: this trip, I was sitting on the plaza myoor as Salamanca, Spain,
10:20
Speaker 2: and I realized, Gee, this is the thirty seventh day
10:25
Speaker 2: of my trip and I haven't had an epiphany. So
10:31
Speaker 2: I took out a notebook and I wanted to see
10:36
Speaker 2: if I could find what religions have in common. And
10:41
Speaker 2: then I came up with a list, which turned out
10:45
Speaker 2: to be my eighty one word and later eighty five
10:48
Speaker 2: word epiphany.
10:50
Speaker 4: And I really liked it.
10:51
Speaker 2: It was something that would bring all religions together as
10:54
Speaker 2: far as I was concerned. So once I had this,
10:57
Speaker 2: I thought, well, and I liked it, what am I
11:00
Speaker 2: going to do with it? I'm not going to study
11:04
Speaker 2: each religion to find out how each religion gives a
11:07
Speaker 2: person a sense of belonging. They teach them right from wrong.
11:11
Speaker 2: They celebrate life's major events. They all have symbols. They
11:15
Speaker 2: i'll have to have a place to meet, and a bureaucracy.
11:19
Speaker 2: They need an organization. I found all these things to
11:22
Speaker 2: be common among all religions. So I had this sentence,
11:26
Speaker 2: and now what am I going to do with it?
11:29
Speaker 2: To publish it? So it sat around until about two
11:34
Speaker 2: thousand and five and I was introduced to an interfaith
11:39
Speaker 2: chaplain from San Francisco Bay Area interfaith Chaplain and I
11:46
Speaker 2: told him about this eighty one word sentence, and I
11:48
Speaker 2: asked him maybe he could tell me what he thought
11:52
Speaker 2: about it. He said, well, why don't you just send
11:54
Speaker 2: it to me and I'll look at it and get
11:57
Speaker 2: back to you. I don't know that he got back
11:59
Speaker 2: to me. I can't remember, but the idea inner faith.
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Speaker 2: I have friends from six faiths. Why don't I ask
12:09
Speaker 2: each of them to write on one aspect of all
12:13
Speaker 2: religions a chapter on each one, and that would do it.
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Speaker 2: I wouldn't have to study each religion to find out
12:22
Speaker 2: the commonality is, exactly what the symbols are, exactly.
12:27
Speaker 4: How they go about.
12:30
Speaker 2: Their religious beliefs and experiences. So I decided I would
12:39
Speaker 2: ask these friends of each religion, six of them, if
12:43
Speaker 2: they would write on one aspect of their religion that's
12:48
Speaker 2: common to all, for instance, having symbols or music or.
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Speaker 4: The words sensible longing.
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Speaker 2: I'd have to look at my eighty one word laconic synthesis.
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Speaker 2: By the way, I called it my laconic synthesis because
13:11
Speaker 2: I wanted to keep it somewhat intellectual and appeal more
13:15
Speaker 2: to the intellect than to their emotions. So I asked
13:22
Speaker 2: each of these friends, and I was fortunate enough to
13:26
Speaker 2: have been introduced to the very well known entertainer Ben
13:29
Speaker 2: Vereen and I'm actually looking at the chair he was
13:33
Speaker 2: sitting in. When I asked him, he said, well, I'm
13:36
Speaker 2: not really a writer. I said, well, just go ahead
13:40
Speaker 2: and do it and see how it comes out. And
13:43
Speaker 2: he wrote a wonderful chapter. And while I was in
13:49
Speaker 2: New York, I went to the publisher of the Dalai
13:52
Speaker 2: Lama's books and asked if I could include words from
13:57
Speaker 2: the Dalai Lama in my book, and they gave me
14:00
Speaker 2: written permission. So all I had to do was to
14:03
Speaker 2: tell each one of these six friends that I'm writing
14:07
Speaker 2: a book and it's going to include Ben Vereen and
14:11
Speaker 2: the Dolly Lama. Well, they were very excited to be
14:14
Speaker 2: in their company. H So that was it.
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Speaker 4: That was it. So I got each of their chapters.
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Speaker 4: Many times I.
14:22
Speaker 2: Had to kind of lean on, we're waiting for your
14:26
Speaker 2: chapter to be finished.
14:27
Speaker 4: You got to finish it.
14:28
Speaker 2: So once I had the book all this, then I
14:32
Speaker 2: wrote my own journey and some miscellaneous thoughts and why
14:37
Speaker 2: there are so many denominations of each religion. I mean,
14:40
Speaker 2: it's really for me. It's fascinating. I actually haven't read
14:43
Speaker 2: this for so long. I should reread it. I was
14:48
Speaker 2: very happy with it. I'm just now looking at a
14:52
Speaker 2: chapter by a good friend of bying, Khaled Turshani from
14:56
Speaker 2: He was from Libya and working here in my town.
15:00
Speaker 2: We became close friends, so I asked him to write
15:03
Speaker 2: a chapter on learning right from wrong and the power
15:07
Speaker 2: of word in religion and to give the Moslim perspective.
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Speaker 2: It's a wonderful chapter. All these are wonderful each. I
15:16
Speaker 2: don't have a problem. Some of them are more interesting
15:19
Speaker 2: than others, and I can cite those. If I don't
15:23
Speaker 2: recommend reading it from cover to cover, I recommended looking
15:27
Speaker 2: at the pictures of the co authors on the front page,
15:31
Speaker 2: maybe relating to some, maybe curious about what they have
15:35
Speaker 2: to say. And the lynch pin, the biggest lynch pin,
15:43
Speaker 2: And it's in the eighty one word epiphany that there
15:47
Speaker 2: are limitations of the brain. I mentioned in the book
15:54
Speaker 2: that you know, dogs can hear and smell things that
15:58
Speaker 2: we can't hear and smell, but they have a limitations
16:03
Speaker 2: of their brains. Dolphins are very sociable and have radar,
16:10
Speaker 2: but they have limitations of their brain. So I was
16:13
Speaker 2: able to find a very very Now this guy wasn't
16:17
Speaker 2: a friend of mine at the time, but I knew
16:20
Speaker 2: his daughter in law very well, who was a teacher
16:22
Speaker 2: at UCSD, and I was telling her, I need a scientist.
16:27
Speaker 2: The thing that's holding up my book is I can't
16:29
Speaker 2: find a scientist who's willing to write a chapter on
16:32
Speaker 2: limitations of the brain. And said, well, my father in
16:36
Speaker 2: law would love to do that. He was a Yale
16:38
Speaker 2: professor and researcher. He's a very well known intellect. And
16:48
Speaker 2: we hit it off and he wrote this wonderful chapter
16:51
Speaker 2: that actually proves and demonstrates the limitations of our brain.
16:58
Speaker 2: So there I had it. Everything is complete. So I
17:03
Speaker 2: went about in two thousand and five putting this all together,
17:07
Speaker 2: but I just kind of left it on the shelf.
17:08
Speaker 2: I just didn't know what to do with it. I
17:11
Speaker 2: think I may have had it printed. Yes, I had
17:17
Speaker 2: it printed somewhere. I forget, boy, my age is really
17:20
Speaker 2: catching up with me, and it just sat there.
17:26
Speaker 4: The first.
17:28
Speaker 2: Book was a spiritual journey to know God twelve thousand
17:33
Speaker 2: BC to present, and I thought, you know, I need
17:37
Speaker 2: something more generic than God. So I redid the cover
17:42
Speaker 2: and now it is a spiritual journey to know the
17:46
Speaker 2: Creator twelve thousand BC to the present, despite limitations of
17:53
Speaker 2: the brain. And I'm very pleased with it. So there
17:58
Speaker 2: you have it.
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Speaker 1: Wonderful full evolution of that book. Let's talk a little
18:02
Speaker 1: bit more about limitations of the brain. How would you
18:05
Speaker 1: apply those with reference to understanding the concepts of a
18:09
Speaker 1: creator and the tenets of faith?
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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's unknowable at this time. How all
18:18
Speaker 2: this came about. I had the pleasure of meeting the
18:23
Speaker 2: head of NASA before he was giving a speech in Pitsopala, Florida,
18:28
Speaker 2: and I went up to him and I said, do
18:29
Speaker 2: you think we'll ever understand creation? His answer was, you
18:34
Speaker 2: know ed, we're ten to the thirteenth power of knowing
18:41
Speaker 2: just what happened. And I asked, said, well, where did
18:45
Speaker 2: the ingredients come from? And he said, well, that'll always
18:49
Speaker 2: be a mystery. Isn't that something that is something? Head
18:55
Speaker 2: of NASA saying that interesting?
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And yet everything that's evolved in various religions and faiths
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Speaker 1: and forms of worship seem to have a commonality, don't they.
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Speaker 2: Well, they have a commonality from the very beginning, when
19:16
Speaker 2: primitive people that had developed the ability to think and
19:21
Speaker 2: to converse, they started wondering, am I being punished when
19:26
Speaker 2: bad things happen? Because as children, they were punished when
19:30
Speaker 2: bad things happened, so it wasn't unusual to think that
19:32
Speaker 2: when something bad happens, like a drought or whatever, are
19:35
Speaker 2: we being punished? That was one of the main ideas
19:39
Speaker 2: that happened with religion, and then they started wondering what
19:44
Speaker 2: happens to the self? What happens to us after we die?
19:49
Speaker 2: And then as a psychiatrist, I'm thinking the way they
19:53
Speaker 2: came up with the idea that there's an afterlife is
19:57
Speaker 2: that everything in their life was uh in circles. You
20:06
Speaker 2: begin a meal, you end a meal, the day begins,
20:09
Speaker 2: the day ends. Today we could say the oscars come
20:14
Speaker 2: at the same time every year, the or the world series.
20:19
Speaker 2: So they just intuitively felt that there's gonna be a reborn,
20:25
Speaker 2: They're gonna there's this is a full circle, and that
20:28
Speaker 2: after death we will be reborn somehow, and that I
20:32
Speaker 2: think is where religions started. Maybe thirty two thousand years ago,
20:36
Speaker 2: twelve thousand years ago for sure, and those are still
20:40
Speaker 2: issues that we experience. Am I being punished? What's going
20:45
Speaker 2: to happen to me after I die? My big question
20:49
Speaker 2: is and maybe he'll relate to it as coincidences that
20:52
Speaker 2: when I can't figure out I've had so many that
20:55
Speaker 2: I'm when that occurs, I'm thinking, there must be something
20:59
Speaker 2: that we don't understand. How can I have all these coincidences?
21:05
Speaker 2: Thinking about it just now for the first time, I'm saying,
21:09
Speaker 2: how is it that I had the idea for this book?
21:13
Speaker 2: And like I said, I let it sit until maybe recently,
21:17
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, you know, this book could be my legacy.
21:21
Speaker 2: I've got to get it out there, and I don't
21:23
Speaker 2: know how to get a book out there. So I
21:27
Speaker 2: used chat GBT that gave me a nineteen page a
21:35
Speaker 2: list of things I should do to get it out there,
21:38
Speaker 2: which included getting a publicist. And out of the seven
21:42
Speaker 2: publicists that they mentioned, they mentioned the number one as
21:47
Speaker 2: far as they were concerned given my book was the
21:50
Speaker 2: Ascot Media Group, which you know. So that's why you
21:56
Speaker 2: and I are speaking right now exactly. And I guess
22:00
Speaker 2: you've had some contact with Helen Cook in the past,
22:05
Speaker 2: and she tells me about on conversations like what we're
22:10
Speaker 2: having and she said, you'll probably get some requests for interviews.
22:16
Speaker 4: Okay, And here we are.
22:18
Speaker 1: And the chain of synchronicities continue. My guest doctor Ed
22:23
Speaker 1: Siegel his book A Spiritual Journey to Know the Creator
22:27
Speaker 1: despite limitations of the brain. Doctor Siegel, please share with
22:31
Speaker 1: our listeners whether they can get your book and find
22:33
Speaker 1: out more about you and your work.
22:35
Speaker 2: Well, at this time it's only being sold on Amazon.
22:38
Speaker 2: You just put book and then the name of the book,
22:41
Speaker 2: A Spiritual Journey to Know the Creator blah blah blah,
22:44
Speaker 2: and it'll come up and.
22:46
Speaker 4: You can order it and your website, Sir.
22:48
Speaker 2: At my website Www. Ed SIEGELMD dot com. That's Ed
22:57
Speaker 2: Si E G e l MD dot com.
23:03
Speaker 1: And we'll be back with more of doctor Siegel and
23:07
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Speaker 3: pass on our Rapo traditions. My kids love going up
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24:11
Speaker 3: is about family. It's about the tribe. It's not just
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Speaker 3: about the dancer. It's kind of like life as a sundancer.
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Speaker 3: I'm just one spoke in the wheel. I need my
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24:31
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Speaker 3: see those smiling faces and they're happy to see me,
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25:32
Speaker 1: Back on Destination Unlimited, my guest this week, Doctor Ed
25:36
Speaker 1: Siegel his book, A Spiritual Journey to Know the Creator
25:40
Speaker 1: Despite Limitations of the brain. You had talked in the
25:43
Speaker 1: first segment. Dr Siegel about laconic synthesis. For those of
25:48
Speaker 1: us who are not familiar specifically with that term, what
25:51
Speaker 1: does that mean?
25:52
Speaker 2: I picked that idle because I wanted to appeal to
25:57
Speaker 2: the intellect. Didn't want anybody having an emotional reaction to
26:02
Speaker 2: what they might be reading in my book. So I
26:08
Speaker 2: learned the word laconic when I was in high school,
26:11
Speaker 2: which means very few words. And synthesis, of course is
26:16
Speaker 2: bringing together disparate things into some sort of unity. So
26:21
Speaker 2: that's where the laconic synthesis got its I mean, that's
26:26
Speaker 2: where my sentence got its name.
26:29
Speaker 1: And how did that evolve you?
26:30
Speaker 2: What was the process you mean the laconic synthesis? Yes, correct, Well,
26:38
Speaker 2: as I said, I told you about how it happened. Yes,
26:44
Speaker 2: And again I didn't want I didn't want the title
26:50
Speaker 2: of that eighty one word sentenced to throw people off.
26:54
Speaker 2: I just wanted them to look at it and say, gee,
26:57
Speaker 2: that that makes sense. So yeah, So I didn't want
27:04
Speaker 2: to say, you know, all religions are the same. Actually,
27:07
Speaker 2: they have many things in common, more than you would
27:09
Speaker 2: ever understand. And they say, somebody once said, well, what
27:14
Speaker 2: about Jesus, He's not in the laconic synthesis. Well, in
27:21
Speaker 2: that long sentence it does say let.
27:24
Speaker 4: Me read it for you. Are you interested please? Yeah.
27:30
Speaker 2: The architectural it actually makes me laugh because it's so cerebral.
27:36
Speaker 2: The architectural and bureaucratic infrastructure has, over the millennia been
27:44
Speaker 2: established for a universally acceptable religion with various names and
27:50
Speaker 2: beliefs that recognizes the limitations of the human brain in
27:56
Speaker 2: perceiving ultimate spiritual truths. Yet all religions provide for one
28:06
Speaker 2: a sense of identity and belonging. I don't think anybody
28:10
Speaker 2: would be involved in religion if they didn't have that
28:16
Speaker 2: sense of belonging and identity. Number two the expression of awe, faith, gratitude, contrition, hope, generosity,
28:28
Speaker 2: and remembrance.
28:31
Speaker 4: That's a mouthful.
28:32
Speaker 2: And three the celebration of life's major events and for
28:38
Speaker 2: the transmission of those values that teach us right from wrong.
28:43
Speaker 2: Then it ends with the statement one's traditional religious beliefs
28:47
Speaker 2: and practices can be just as meaningful but possibly confining.
28:54
Speaker 2: So as I'm experiencing more and more religions, I'm thinking
28:59
Speaker 2: part of Buddhism and meditation that seems to becoming a
29:05
Speaker 2: part of many faith's traditions.
29:10
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, is this laconic synthesis process something that
29:16
Speaker 1: everyone can engage in.
29:18
Speaker 4: Absolutely? I mean it's universal.
29:23
Speaker 2: Every religion has everything that I mentioned in my laconic synthesis.
29:32
Speaker 2: So all the readers will at least find out the
29:34
Speaker 2: definition of a word they didn't know.
29:37
Speaker 1: And also apply it in their daily lives. If that's
29:40
Speaker 1: the stream of words that come to them that have
29:42
Speaker 1: meaning for.
29:43
Speaker 4: Them, that's right. It's simple talk about it is simple.
29:46
Speaker 4: It is simple.
29:47
Speaker 2: The one that they have to comprehend is limitations of
29:50
Speaker 2: the brain, and that chapter is extremely important and I
29:53
Speaker 2: couldn't have found a better co author than doctor Delgado.
30:00
Speaker 4: Wonderful.
30:01
Speaker 1: As you mentioned in the first segment, you have some
30:04
Speaker 1: wonderful contributors to the book, including his holiness the Dalai
30:08
Speaker 1: Lama to the amazing actor and dancer Ben Ververen. How
30:11
Speaker 1: did you choose the other contributors for the book.
30:15
Speaker 2: Well, they were all friends of mine, and each one
30:20
Speaker 2: of them, I'm looking at him. Each one of them
30:27
Speaker 2: had something to write about one of the components of
30:30
Speaker 2: that laconic synthesis. So I asked each one of them.
30:35
Speaker 2: Many of them were hesitant. This is kind of funny,
30:38
Speaker 2: I said, you know, this book is going to include
30:41
Speaker 2: a chapter by Ben Vereen and the Dalai Lama. I
30:45
Speaker 2: think you might want to be part of it, and
30:47
Speaker 2: I would love to have you write a chapter, and
30:50
Speaker 2: I would give them an assignment. And then as if
30:53
Speaker 2: each chapter was something that had to be done right
30:57
Speaker 2: away before I could finish the book, because.
31:00
Speaker 4: As you're the you're the last chapter.
31:03
Speaker 2: I need you to get to it, get get busy,
31:06
Speaker 2: and so I sort of use that maybe is that
31:09
Speaker 2: the psychiatrist and hear what I guess? Uh, but it worked.
31:14
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm looking at the book right now.
31:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.
31:17
Speaker 2: What do the followers of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam,
31:23
Speaker 2: and Vodin have in common? Of course, most people are
31:27
Speaker 2: not going to know what voden is. Well, voodoo is
31:30
Speaker 2: not vodun. Well, we in this in the people tend
31:34
Speaker 2: to think of voodoo as sticking pins in dolls that
31:37
Speaker 2: represent somebody. They they would not agree that that's part
31:41
Speaker 2: of their tradition. They would call that witchcraft. They do
31:44
Speaker 2: not stick pins in dolls. And they have a religion
31:49
Speaker 2: that they say has no beginning, it was always there,
31:53
Speaker 2: and that there's a spirit in everything. I happen to
31:58
Speaker 2: meet through my with the San Diego International Visitors Commission,
32:06
Speaker 2: I happened to meet the president of the parliament in
32:09
Speaker 2: benin West Africa, where by the way, most of the
32:12
Speaker 2: slaves came from. We became very good friends. I went
32:16
Speaker 2: to visit him and he wrote a chapter on symbols
32:20
Speaker 2: because in Voda and they have so many symbols. In fact,
32:24
Speaker 2: ministers might suggest that you put this symbol on your
32:28
Speaker 2: doorstep and then you'll have what you want, whether it's
32:32
Speaker 2: a healthy baby or a safe trip, or you'll have
32:35
Speaker 2: money or whatever. And the minister says, only if it works,
32:40
Speaker 2: you don't have to pay me.
32:40
Speaker 4: In this.
32:42
Speaker 2: The symbol that I'm asking you to do turns out
32:46
Speaker 2: to be true. Well, they had so many symbols in Vodon,
32:52
Speaker 2: and his father wanted him to have a Western education,
32:57
Speaker 2: so he took him to the capitol and enrolled him
33:00
Speaker 2: in a Catholic school where he would learn English, what
33:04
Speaker 2: have and have a good education. And he said, he
33:07
Speaker 2: walked into this church, and he said, and now there's
33:10
Speaker 2: another symbol. He writes an interesting chapter. They're all They're
33:19
Speaker 2: all interesting. Some of them are more fun to read
33:21
Speaker 2: than others. That's why I'm suggesting that you sort of
33:24
Speaker 2: look at the picture of each co author before you
33:27
Speaker 2: read their chapter. You might have some sense of connection
33:30
Speaker 2: with them. But they're all just wonderful people of all
33:34
Speaker 2: of these religions. Plus doctor Delgado, I'm very pleased. I
33:39
Speaker 2: the reason I don't know that I've shared this. Being
33:44
Speaker 2: eighty six years old, I start wondering, what is my legacy?
33:51
Speaker 2: Do I have a legacy? Of course who Woody Allen
33:57
Speaker 2: was asked what his legacy? Do you think think that
34:00
Speaker 2: your movies will be your legacy? He said, Did Shakespeare
34:04
Speaker 2: ever know he would have a legacy?
34:07
Speaker 4: Isn't that amazing?
34:09
Speaker 2: But I did think this is a contribution that I
34:12
Speaker 2: should make public if I can. I need to get
34:15
Speaker 2: this out of here, get this off the desk and
34:19
Speaker 2: out in the public while I'm still around.
34:23
Speaker 1: You know, you had just mentioned that you ask readers
34:26
Speaker 1: to look at the photographs of the various contributors on
34:29
Speaker 1: the cover. What was your thought behind that, You would say,
34:32
Speaker 1: get a vibe from them or a sensible.
34:34
Speaker 2: About Yes, when you look at them and then you
34:38
Speaker 2: read their chapters, yes, you sort of have. You know,
34:42
Speaker 2: we have first impressions, right, yes, so you get an
34:45
Speaker 2: impression of these co authors, and as I look at
34:50
Speaker 2: the book East, one of them is special and unique.
34:58
Speaker 2: Of course I know them, so I I say more
35:00
Speaker 2: than just their picture. But I think that if you know,
35:03
Speaker 2: first impressions are lasting impressions. So if you're reading their
35:07
Speaker 2: chapter and you know how they look, I think it's
35:11
Speaker 2: more meaningful. One of my favorite chapters, by the way,
35:15
Speaker 2: is on confusion in religion. This co author, who has
35:20
Speaker 2: a PhD. By the way, had a Mormon father and
35:26
Speaker 2: a Catholic mother and was raised in a Jewish community.
35:31
Speaker 2: So she was very confused about religion and she really
35:35
Speaker 2: couldn't identify with any of them. You know, she had
35:39
Speaker 2: friends that were, you know, Jewish or Christian or what
35:43
Speaker 2: have you. So she writes about that experience of the confusion,
35:48
Speaker 2: and she found her spiritual home at my singalong. For
35:54
Speaker 2: thirty three years in my community, I've had weekly singalongs,
36:00
Speaker 2: a songbook that has about nine hundred or one thousand
36:04
Speaker 2: of lyrics for different songs, and for her that became
36:10
Speaker 2: her religious home.
36:12
Speaker 4: She felt that she still feels that way.
36:14
Speaker 1: Absolute music is so important in all spiritual aspects, absolutely,
36:18
Speaker 1: and sharing it, being able to blend voices together. And
36:22
Speaker 1: that's right, absolutely because you have that vibration taking place,
36:26
Speaker 1: which I think on a brain level really unifies people,
36:31
Speaker 1: that's for sure. What are some of the other main
36:34
Speaker 1: points that your contributors offered, ones that stand.
36:38
Speaker 4: Out to you, Well, each of them stand out to me.
36:42
Speaker 2: Randy de Mario is a Presbyterian deacon and he's raised
36:48
Speaker 2: his children to be generous and to be grateful. So
36:53
Speaker 2: I asked him to write a chapter on gratitude and
36:58
Speaker 2: boy six ye gratitude and generosity. Chandra Khalore is a
37:05
Speaker 2: friend of mine. He was the city engineer of the
37:10
Speaker 2: town I'm in for a long time. We became good
37:12
Speaker 2: friends and I asked him, and he's Buddhist. I asked
37:16
Speaker 2: him if he would write a chapter on the architecture
37:21
Speaker 2: that each religion has, and he did a wonderful job
37:24
Speaker 2: of explaining each of the architectural features in Buddhism. Then
37:32
Speaker 2: I had a Rabbi, Lenn Zukro, who I asked to
37:37
Speaker 2: write a chapter on remembrance. And he said, you know,
37:42
Speaker 2: that is so important what we do at our services.
37:46
Speaker 2: And you know, when we have a wedding, a funeral
37:49
Speaker 2: of our misera about misvah, we're creating a memory. And
37:52
Speaker 2: he talks about memory of our religion. And he even
37:57
Speaker 2: says that memory in religion was created by the Jews.
38:00
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's true. Anyway.
38:03
Speaker 2: Down here is a deacon Algraph, a Catholic deacon and
38:09
Speaker 2: a fellow member of the Rotary Club. And I asked
38:12
Speaker 2: him if he would write a chapter on organization and
38:17
Speaker 2: talk about organization, and I certainly picked a good one
38:20
Speaker 2: for that. The Catholic Church. And then I have a
38:24
Speaker 2: Reverend Eleanor Ellsworth of a dear friend of mine. She's
38:29
Speaker 2: a priest at an Episcopal church, and I asked her
38:34
Speaker 2: if she would write a chapter on hope. And Kitty
38:40
Speaker 2: Morris is writing a chapter on recipes. She's on food
38:46
Speaker 2: and religion.
38:46
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. And she's a dear friend of mine. And
38:51
Speaker 4: she had.
38:51
Speaker 2: An Anglican father, a Jewish mother, and was raised in Casablanca,
38:56
Speaker 2: so she got to know, she got to know the
38:59
Speaker 2: cuisine of all all of these religions. So she writes
39:02
Speaker 2: a chapter on food in religion. Then I have a
39:09
Speaker 2: Hindu friend of mine, a colleague, a psychiatrist. Her name
39:12
Speaker 2: is Isabelle Puri, MD. And even though she has a
39:19
Speaker 2: Hindu background, she was never particularly interested in it. But
39:23
Speaker 2: in writing her chapter, she became a Hindu again and
39:27
Speaker 2: felt this sense of belonging that she hadn't had before.
39:31
Speaker 2: Then Collecte Orshani already talked about him, my friend from
39:35
Speaker 2: Libya who I met here in Salona Beach, writing on
39:38
Speaker 2: the Power of Words. And then Ben Vereen writes a
39:43
Speaker 2: chapter on awe. I asked Ben, I said, would you
39:47
Speaker 2: write a chapter on awe? In religion and including what
39:52
Speaker 2: music does to create a sense of awe. He said, boy,
39:55
Speaker 2: you picked the right guy, because I'm in the state
39:57
Speaker 2: of awe all of the time. So he wrote a
40:01
Speaker 2: chapter that I like. And then a dear friend of
40:04
Speaker 2: mine who came here to Salona Beach from India. She
40:10
Speaker 2: is a very well known dancer Katak dancer as a
40:15
Speaker 2: very traditional dance in India, and she actually was received
40:21
Speaker 2: an award as Daughter of the Country by India Gandhi.
40:25
Speaker 2: So she writes a chapter on stories. Every religion has stories,
40:31
Speaker 2: and it turns out that the story that she tells
40:34
Speaker 2: from her religion is something we can relate to as cipher.
40:42
Speaker 2: She's the one that writes on religious confusion. I told
40:45
Speaker 2: you about her. And then of course doctor Delgado just
40:49
Speaker 2: an amazing man. He passed away a couple of years
40:52
Speaker 2: ago at the age of ninety eight, I think, and
40:56
Speaker 2: that's it.
40:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, my guest, doctor Edson, his book a spiritual journey
41:03
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41:06
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41:09
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Speaker 1: Back on Destination Unlimited. My guest this week, doctor Ed
45:31
Speaker 1: Siegel his book A Spiritual Journey to Know the Creator
45:36
Speaker 1: despite limitations of the brain. I just want to touch
45:39
Speaker 1: on two things that we had discussed a little earlier.
45:41
Speaker 1: You talked about Kitty Morse's contribution on food and religion.
45:45
Speaker 1: Does she discuss fasting at all?
45:47
Speaker 4: I don't think so. Okay, Now there's no recipe for fact.
45:52
Speaker 1: No recipe for pasting. Okay, just curious, just curious.
45:55
Speaker 4: I should ask her about test Here you go.
45:58
Speaker 1: And then, Randy Demaroy, you mentioned gratitude and generosity. I'm
46:02
Speaker 1: a member of a group called Mourning Gratitude, where when
46:05
Speaker 1: we wake up we expressed gratitude for something in our
46:08
Speaker 1: lives and we all share it together on the Facebook,
46:11
Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, I had mentioned to you offline that
46:15
Speaker 1: I had attended this organization called the New Seminary back
46:18
Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties and one of the founders. The
46:21
Speaker 1: founder was Rabbi Joseph Gelderman, and he was well into
46:25
Speaker 1: his eighties at the time, and he said he would
46:28
Speaker 1: wake up every morning and he would have pain in
46:31
Speaker 1: his arms and paint in his back and painted his legs,
46:34
Speaker 1: and he would say, thank you God. And people would
46:37
Speaker 1: ask him, why do you thanking God?
46:38
Speaker 4: You're in pain?
46:39
Speaker 1: He says, because I'm alive. If I was dead, I
46:40
Speaker 1: wouldn't feel anything. And he says, as long as I
46:43
Speaker 1: wake up and have a purpose in my life, that
46:45
Speaker 1: I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
46:48
Speaker 2: I had a friend in a retirement facility who was
46:53
Speaker 2: like ninety one or so, and she had a lot
46:57
Speaker 2: of arthritis, so she was in pain a lot. But
47:02
Speaker 2: she would wake up in the morning. She says, huh,
47:04
Speaker 2: I'm alive, but what is my purpose. I need to
47:07
Speaker 2: have a purpose. And she said, you know ed it's
47:11
Speaker 2: so easy to say I love you. And she says, now,
47:16
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm being forward, but I do love you,
47:22
Speaker 2: and I've decided that my purpose is to spread love.
47:26
Speaker 2: And while I'm here, if I see someone, I say,
47:29
Speaker 2: my dear, what lovely earrings you have?
47:33
Speaker 4: My dear, I.
47:35
Speaker 2: Love your shirt whatever. You know, she would find something
47:39
Speaker 2: to express some love to people. Isn't that amazing?
47:44
Speaker 4: Well? She was amazing. Absolutely.
47:47
Speaker 1: My mother taught me when I was a kid that
47:50
Speaker 1: kindness was the most impressive and important gift you could
47:53
Speaker 1: give to anyone. She said, in the world where people
47:55
Speaker 1: don't really pay attention acts of kindness, simple acts of kindness,
47:59
Speaker 1: holding the or for someone who comes out of a
48:01
Speaker 1: building behind you, saying thank you for service that you've received,
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Speaker 1: recognizing someone by name and saying thank you for someone
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Speaker 1: who's worked with you in a store, or something of
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Speaker 1: that nature. Just simple little acts of kindness that cost
48:15
Speaker 1: nothing but are worth so so much.
48:19
Speaker 4: You know.
48:19
Speaker 2: As a psychiatrist, I truly appreciate each and it. I've
48:23
Speaker 2: never I've only had one patient that I was upset with.
48:28
Speaker 2: And I sometimes tell people, you know, I get paid
48:33
Speaker 2: to be myself and just getting to know these people,
48:36
Speaker 2: understanding why they're here and helping them through it. It
48:40
Speaker 2: is such a and I get to be myself doing it.
48:43
Speaker 2: It's wonderful.
48:44
Speaker 1: It is wonderful. How did you come to the conclusion
48:47
Speaker 1: that people of major religions are more alike than different?
48:53
Speaker 2: That was part. That was where the epiphany came into play.
48:57
Speaker 2: I just made a list of what they all have
49:00
Speaker 2: in common, and here they are in eighty five words.
49:05
Speaker 2: It started out as eighty one. I added three of
49:08
Speaker 2: various faiths and beliefs. It's just so obvious that they
49:15
Speaker 2: have more in common. They have a lot in common,
49:17
Speaker 2: let's say, a lot of important aspects, perhaps the most
49:21
Speaker 2: important aspects in common.
49:25
Speaker 4: And so.
49:27
Speaker 2: I'm just blown away that I had this epiphany on
49:30
Speaker 2: the thirty seventh day, sitting on the Plaza Mayor in Salamanca, thinking, gee,
49:35
Speaker 2: I haven't had an epiphany yet, and then this eighty
49:39
Speaker 2: one word sentence comes out. I couldn't believe it. And
49:42
Speaker 2: then I went back to look it over again. I said, well,
49:44
Speaker 2: let me see if anything needs to be changed.
49:47
Speaker 4: You know, I like it the way it is there
49:49
Speaker 4: you go.
49:50
Speaker 2: Then my last thought was, well, now what am I
49:52
Speaker 2: going to do with it?
49:56
Speaker 1: And then you came, We're going to make a book
49:58
Speaker 1: out of it. That's wonderful. That's together today through my
50:02
Speaker 1: adult interfaith studies in the New Seminary of New York
50:05
Speaker 1: back in the nineties, I learned that there is an
50:08
Speaker 1: iteration of the Golden Rule in virtually every faith doing
50:13
Speaker 1: too others as you would have them doing to you,
50:15
Speaker 1: love thy neighbors thyself. If humanity embraced this one tenant,
50:20
Speaker 1: how do you think it would change the world.
50:23
Speaker 2: What about what's going on in the Middle East, as
50:30
Speaker 2: many problems as I have with our president, if he
50:33
Speaker 2: can bring those countries to recognizing that Israel is a
50:41
Speaker 2: tiny country that would only like to help all of
50:44
Speaker 2: you with what they've found out about improving agriculture, medicine, technology,
50:51
Speaker 2: I just I just don't understand what this is all about.
50:56
Speaker 4: I guess it's it's very hard for me to.
51:02
Speaker 2: Believe that so many people feel that Israel should not
51:07
Speaker 2: exist people of faith.
51:10
Speaker 4: Oh crazy, absolutely, yeah, which.
51:14
Speaker 2: I'm hoping and praying that maybe this Abromic accords that
51:20
Speaker 2: President Trump talks about. I hope that at the end
51:23
Speaker 2: of all this terrible stuff that that'll be his legacy.
51:32
Speaker 1: And taking that one step further based upon our current
51:36
Speaker 1: worldwide tribulations, do you see a way that a commonality
51:40
Speaker 1: of spiritual respect and understanding might come to fruition.
51:49
Speaker 2: You know, I'd have to think about that, because there's
51:53
Speaker 2: them and me, and I'm unique, and why aren't they
52:00
Speaker 2: more like me?
52:01
Speaker 4: I don't know.
52:06
Speaker 2: I think as long as people find spiritual home that
52:11
Speaker 2: has meaning for them, and they learn the Golden rule,
52:14
Speaker 2: and maybe it should be reinforced more often that each
52:17
Speaker 2: religion expresses that. Now there's the I hate to call
52:22
Speaker 2: it this, but there's the business of religion. You need
52:26
Speaker 2: to recruit and retain these people in order to function,
52:30
Speaker 2: and we need money.
52:33
Speaker 4: To do that.
52:34
Speaker 2: So I'm wondering how far this I hope that people
52:44
Speaker 2: are appreciating these the fact say that the Golden Rule
52:48
Speaker 2: or something like it is in each faith tradition, but
52:51
Speaker 2: they still have to maintain their separateness in order to function.
52:56
Speaker 4: Does that make sense?
52:57
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. But by the same token, if we can
53:02
Speaker 1: live in a world where people are side by side
53:05
Speaker 1: worshiping in their chosen way, in the way of birth,
53:09
Speaker 1: but again, extending that Golden rule concept to their neighbors
53:12
Speaker 1: who are of different faith, what a change they would be.
53:15
Speaker 1: I live in a neighborhood here in Queens, New York,
53:18
Speaker 1: and I have neighbors who are a Muslim. I have
53:20
Speaker 1: neighbors who are Christian, I have neighbors who are Hindu.
53:24
Speaker 1: We all get together famously, and we extend kindness and
53:27
Speaker 1: courtesy and love to one another, and we live side
53:30
Speaker 1: by side in this neighborhood.
53:32
Speaker 4: That's beautiful. That's beautiful, and.
53:34
Speaker 1: I feel blessed. I feel really blessed to live in
53:37
Speaker 1: this community. And if this community could be extended out
53:40
Speaker 1: to the world, what a change they would be.
53:44
Speaker 2: I had as as a community in both Fort Collins, Colorado,
53:48
Speaker 2: and in Pensacola, Florida. But here in California, people do
53:52
Speaker 2: not get to know their neighbors. They don't want anybody
53:55
Speaker 2: to get involved in their lives. They have their separate lives.
54:00
Speaker 2: And I missed that says the community very much. That's
54:03
Speaker 2: why the sing along that I did for so many
54:05
Speaker 2: years was so meaningful for me.
54:07
Speaker 4: That says the community.
54:08
Speaker 2: But we weren't neighbors might be in the same town,
54:12
Speaker 2: but there was you know, can I borrow a cup
54:15
Speaker 2: of sugar or whatever?
54:18
Speaker 4: Kind of neighbor.
54:19
Speaker 1: That's kind of said that people who live side by
54:21
Speaker 1: side don't become friends.
54:23
Speaker 4: That's true.
54:23
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm very upset by it, but I've just had
54:28
Speaker 2: to accept it, and I have to have friends across
54:32
Speaker 2: on the other side of town or in another city.
54:37
Speaker 4: Not the neighbors interesting, And she said.
54:41
Speaker 2: My neighbors just to one side of me built an
54:46
Speaker 2: amazing house. They tore down a house that they bought
54:51
Speaker 2: for two and a half million and now have a
54:54
Speaker 2: house that's probably worth seven million. And it's to become
54:58
Speaker 2: a B and B. So you know, my neighbors change
55:05
Speaker 2: all the time.
55:09
Speaker 1: What would you like your readers to take away from
55:11
Speaker 1: a spiritual journey to know the Creator despite limitations of
55:15
Speaker 1: the brain.
55:17
Speaker 2: Well, I think the best thing I can recommend is
55:21
Speaker 2: to read the book. If it's in a library, that's
55:24
Speaker 2: fine too, But however you can get it. It's meaningful
55:28
Speaker 2: to me and I hope it will be meaningful to
55:31
Speaker 2: have her read it.
55:31
Speaker 1: Thank you, And it's available on Amazon.
55:34
Speaker 4: That's right, okay.
55:36
Speaker 1: And your website sir.
55:38
Speaker 2: Again, Www. Ed Siegel M D's E. D. S I
55:46
Speaker 2: E G. E. L. M D at Cox dot net.
55:53
Speaker 1: Doctor Siegel, thank you so much for joining us and
55:56
Speaker 1: sharing this amazing message, this wonderful message. Thank you hopeful message. Also,
56:01
Speaker 1: it's a really hopeful message.
56:03
Speaker 2: Well, I really appreciate this opportunity, Victor very much, and
56:06
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to reading more of what you've done
56:09
Speaker 2: and your poetry and the Moody Blue song.
56:13
Speaker 1: Thank you. We shared that offline for folks who are
56:15
Speaker 1: listening to the show. Okay, and thank you for joining
56:18
Speaker 1: us on Destination Unlimited. I'm Victor the Voice Furman. Have
56:23
Speaker 1: a wonderful week.