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Andrea Mara on adapting a novel for TV and writing bestselling fiction · The Book Deal

0:09
Speaker 2: The Book Deal Podcast Where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
0:15
Speaker 3: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals, to bring you the best tips and advice on how to get that elusive book deal.
0:25
Speaker 4: So no matter what stage of writing you're at, we've got you covered.
0:29
Speaker 4: I'm Tina Strachan.
0:30
Speaker 2: I'm Madeleine Cleary.
0:32
Speaker 3: And I'm Natasha Rai.
0:34
Speaker 4: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors.
0:37
Speaker 5: One deal at a time.
0:43
Speaker 5: The Book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters which it's recorded on, and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
0:56
Speaker 6: Hi, everyone.
0:56
Speaker 6: It's Madeleine here.
0:57
Speaker 6: In this episode, I speak with delightful Irish author, Andrea Mara.
1:01
Speaker 6: Andrea is a number one Sunday Times, Irish Times, and Kindle bestselling author, whose books have sold more than one million copies across all formats.
1:10
Speaker 6: The TV adaptation of her 2021 book, All Her Fault, aired in November 2025 to a huge critical and audience acclaim.
1:17
Speaker 6: Such a Nice Girl is Andrea's latest novel and is out in Australia now.
1:21
Speaker 6: After meeting Andrea in Melbourne when she was here for the filming of All Her Fault, I found her so warm and generous, and I really wanted to share her wonderful insights on writing on the podcast.
1:30
Speaker 6: Andrea's novels have been highly successful, but it was not always a linear path to success.
1:36
Speaker 6: We, of course, discussed the adaptation of her work, but also the moment she received permission to write, the craft of writing commercial and highly page-turning fiction.
1:45
Speaker 6: I hope you enjoy.
1:46
video1902974583: Thanks so much for joining me on the podcast,
1:48
Madeleine Cleary: Andrea
1:50
Andrea Mara: Thank you for asking me
1:51
video1902974583: Oh, well, we're just saying how busy you are, so I'm so grateful that you get to come, come and have a chat with us.
1:57
video1902974583: Um, so you're author of nine novels.
1:59
video1902974583: Sold over a million copies.
2:00
video1902974583: You've won writing awards.
2:02
video1902974583: Your work's been adapted to screen,
2:03
Madeleine Cleary: we'll
2:03
video1902974583: talk about, but before we do, was writing something you always wanted to do?
2:09
Andrea Mara: I mean, I kind of, I always feel bad answering that question because I feel like I should be saying yes.
2:15
Andrea Mara: Um, and I did, um, an event last year in Ireland with an interviewer who I know and we, we know each other quite a long time, and I, I answered that question and I said,"Not really.
2:28
Andrea Mara: I mean, I worked in financial services for 17 years." And she was like,"I am gonna cry.
2:33
Andrea Mara: I've wanted to write since I was two." So I was like, maybe I should just change that answer and lie.
2:39
Andrea Mara: But I think lots of us, you know, when we're in primary school, we're all busy writing short stories and essays, and we imagine being writers in the same way as we imagine being singers or actors or So it seems like something you might think you can do when you're 5 or 10, but then you become a teenager and you're like,"Oh, no, I need to go and get myself a proper job, and who would I think I am to be thinking I could be a writer?" So I would say it was really only about 12 years ago I started blogging as a form of therapy when my kids were small and I was trying to work full time and, um, looking after, you know, childcare and
3:20
video1902974583: all of that.
3:21
video1902974583: And
3:22
Andrea Mara: I realized then how much I was getting out of the writing, and that was the route into fiction for me.
3:29
video1902974583: Mm.
3:30
video1902974583: So, um, how did you start then writing fiction, so going from blogging to writing fiction?
3:34
video1902974583: And you said you were working in financial service at the time.
3:37
video1902974583: Was there something that happened that would kickstart that?
3:40
Andrea Mara: It was really, um, that someone commented on my Facebook page one night and said,"You should write a book." And I went,"Okay." And, like, I had been thinking I had always, same as I think any of us, you have what if ideas in your head.
3:55
Andrea Mara: So I would be sitting at a work meeting, a video conference that maybe was not so interesting, and my mind is starting to wander, and I've often given this example, but I would imagine what if, um,
4:08
video1902974583: armed gunmen
4:10
Andrea Mara: arrived into the Luxembourg office, which was the, the video conference was between us in Dublin and our Luxembourg office.
4:17
Andrea Mara: And I would think,"My
4:18
video1902974583: God,
4:18
Andrea Mara: would we do?" Because it would
4:19
video1902974583: be unfolding
4:20
Andrea Mara: on the video screen in front of our eyes, but actually they're hundreds of miles away in another country, so there's nothing we could do to help them, and it would be so freaky to see it happening, but be so helpless.
4:31
Andrea Mara: And would we call the Irish police or the Luxembourgish police?
4:34
Andrea Mara: How would we get to them?
4:35
Andrea Mara: So it was those kind of,
4:38
video1902974583: you know,
4:38
Andrea Mara: what if scenarios, or my kids were small at the time, so constantly losing them in playgrounds and thinking what if you couldn't find them, that were rattling around in my head.
4:48
Andrea Mara: But I also thought writing a book sounds like a really hard thing to do, which as we know, it is a really hard thing to do.
4:55
Andrea Mara: And I thought, no, I just, you know, even if there's this one small idea, it would hardly sustain a whole book.
5:01
Andrea Mara: So I would push it aside and think, no, no, no.
5:03
Andrea Mara: That's not something I could do.
5:05
Andrea Mara: I'm being silly.
5:06
Andrea Mara: You know?
5:06
Andrea Mara: Pushing Just, I suppose, imposter syndrome as well.
5:10
Andrea Mara: So when this person commented on my Facebook page and said,"You should write a book," it was like they were giving me permission or
5:16
video1902974583: the nudge that I
5:17
Andrea Mara: needed.
5:18
Andrea Mara: So it, it was like I couldn't tell myself to do it, but just one other person telling me to do it was enough, and I literally started writing the next day.
5:27
Andrea Mara: Which I did in my office, because I was being made redundant at the
5:30
video1902974583: time.
5:30
Andrea Mara: and I was very indignant about, um,
5:33
video1902974583: um,
5:34
Andrea Mara: losing my job, so I was very pleased to, uh, as they were winding up the business and they didn't really need us to do anything other than be there, um, I, I, that's where I wrote a lot of what became my first book.
5:48
video1902974583: Wow.
5:48
video1902974583: You really seized that opportunity.
5:50
video1902974583: Have you thanked that person on Facebook?
5:53
Andrea Mara: How
5:53
video1902974583: oh, many times.
5:54
video1902974583: She's sick of me saying it.
5:56
Andrea Mara: Um, yeah, so I think we've reached a point where she's probably like,"Oh no, here we go again." Um,'cause I mention her in, in a lot of interviews.
6:04
Andrea Mara: And she, um, she's an author here in Ireland as well, so, um, yeah, so she, I think she understood that, um, that thing of needing somebody to tell you what to do herself as
6:17
video1902974583: well.
6:18
video1902974583: Mm.
6:18
video1902974583: I love that, that giving of permission.
6:20
video1902974583: It's so important as writers.
6:21
video1902974583: It's I think that's an amazing story.
6:23
video1902974583: So, um, so you're in your office and you're starting writing what would become your debut novel, The Other Side of the Wall.
6:30
video1902974583: Um, what at what point, how long did it take you to write, and then how did you go about seeking publication?
6:36
video1902974583: So
6:36
Andrea Mara: I was very naive.
6:37
Andrea Mara: I wasn't in the writing world.
6:39
Andrea Mara: So if you, um, if your listeners are aspiring authors, they are already way further than I am because they are listening to this podcast and understanding a little more
6:50
video1902974583: I
6:50
Andrea Mara: did about how the writing world works, or at least trying to better understand it.
6:55
Andrea Mara: I was not in
6:56
video1902974583: world at all.
6:57
video1902974583: It
6:57
Andrea Mara: was 12 years ago, so I don't even know if podcasts were a thing back then.
7:01
Andrea Mara: And I just started writing.
7:03
Andrea Mara: I didn't think
7:04
video1902974583: through,
7:05
Andrea Mara: and I ended up writing a manuscript that was half sweeping historical family saga
7:11
video1902974583: and half- Ooh contemporary thriller,
7:13
Andrea Mara: which
7:14
video1902974583: you cannot do.
7:15
Madeleine Cleary: that sounds great, Andrea.
7:17
Madeleine Cleary: I'd read
7:17
video1902974583: like that.
7:17
video1902974583: Yeah.
7:18
video1902974583: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:19
video1902974583: It w- what,
7:20
Andrea Mara: what I was trying
7:21
video1902974583: do
7:22
Andrea Mara: was give the backstory
7:24
video1902974583: the main
7:24
Andrea Mara: characters, how they
7:26
video1902974583: up the
7:26
Andrea Mara: way they end up in
7:27
video1902974583: contemporary thriller part, but I went
7:29
Andrea Mara: way too far.
7:30
Andrea Mara: Like, 50,000 words is far too much of
7:33
video1902974583: backstory.
7:33
Andrea Mara: I went back 70 years.
7:35
Andrea Mara: We were in tenements Dublin with their great-grandparents, and I, I just didn't know any better, and I'm
7:42
video1902974583: it
7:42
Andrea Mara: was no harm
7:43
video1902974583: have
7:43
Andrea Mara: done that.
7:44
video1902974583: I mean,
7:44
Andrea Mara: I was, like, fully invested in these tenement houses that I had created
7:49
video1902974583: my characters.
7:51
Andrea Mara: And then I did a thing here called Date With an
7:54
video1902974583: So obviously I had
7:55
Andrea Mara: finally realized
7:56
video1902974583: might be
7:56
Andrea Mara: a good thing to slightly
7:58
video1902974583: become
7:58
Andrea Mara: involved in the world of publishing
8:01
video1902974583: writing and
8:01
Andrea Mara: learn a bit about it.
8:02
Andrea Mara: And I met with, um, a lovely agent called Claire Wallace of Darley Anderson.
8:08
video1902974583: Um, so the event was in Dublin.
8:09
video1902974583: She's a UK
8:10
Andrea Mara: agent.
8:11
Andrea Mara: And it was this thing where, that you get to meet them for, I think, five minutes.
8:15
Andrea Mara: They've read three chapters and a synopsis, and everybody goes into this with
8:20
video1902974583: dream that
8:21
Andrea Mara: the agent is gonna say,"Wow, I love your work.
8:25
Andrea Mara: Please can I represent you?" Like,
8:26
video1902974583: it
8:26
Andrea Mara: still goes on today, Date With an Agent, and everybody, you
8:30
video1902974583: help feeling that.
8:31
Andrea Mara: Um, so she said,"You can't do historical saga
8:36
video1902974583: contemporary thriller.
8:37
video1902974583: You've got
8:38
Andrea Mara: to pick one." She said,"I would suggest pick the contemporary thriller based on what I've read." And so
8:44
video1902974583: I came out
8:45
Andrea Mara: and shelved it for a while because I
8:48
video1902974583: sometimes when we get
8:50
Andrea Mara: It wasn't at all negative feedback,
8:52
video1902974583: because we
8:53
Andrea Mara: all go there thinking we're gonna get an agent and come out being told,"Mm, what you've done isn't going to work," it is a
9:01
video1902974583: of deflation,
9:02
Andrea Mara: if not rejection.
9:03
Andrea Mara: So I did shelve it for a while, and I was very busy at
9:06
video1902974583: time
9:06
Andrea Mara: with, um, the winding of, of my job in financial services, three small kids.
9:11
video1902974583: I
9:11
Andrea Mara: was still blogging.
9:12
Andrea Mara: I had gone on to start freelance writing for magazines and newspapers here in Ireland, and that was very time-consuming as well, and, you know, very deadline-driven.
9:22
Andrea Mara: So there wasn't really time
9:24
video1902974583: to focus on
9:26
Andrea Mara: rewriting the book even after I had licked my wounds.
9:29
Andrea Mara: But,
9:29
video1902974583: um,
9:30
Andrea Mara: like so many of us, I put it in a drawer, and then I took it back out, um, a year later.
9:36
Andrea Mara: The same author who had nudged
9:37
video1902974583: and said,"You should write a book," she
9:39
Andrea Mara: messaged
9:39
video1902974583: to
9:40
Andrea Mara: say she had been at a book launch the previous night and had
9:43
video1902974583: chatting
9:44
Andrea Mara: to her editor, and her editor was interested in books that were along the lines of Shari Lapena's
9:50
video1902974583: Couple Next
9:51
Andrea Mara: Door, which this
9:52
video1902974583: 2016, so that book was everywhere at the time.
9:54
Andrea Mara: And my book at the time Um, the working title was The People Next Door.
10:00
Andrea Mara: And I
10:01
video1902974583: remember
10:01
Andrea Mara: seeing Shari's book everywhere and going,"Oh, wow, what's this book that's nearly the same title as my literally
10:08
video1902974583: book?" Um, but it
10:10
Andrea Mara: was enough to make me go,"Okay, I'm gonna take it
10:13
video1902974583: out
10:13
Andrea Mara: and have a look,
10:14
video1902974583: I'm
10:14
Andrea Mara: gonna rewrite it as a contemporary thriller." And there was still
10:18
video1902974583: to
10:19
Andrea Mara: and fro when I submitted to that editor.
10:22
Andrea Mara: Um, but ultimately, um, she offered me a three-book deal, and that book came out then, um, in 2017.
10:32
video1902974583: So yes,
10:33
Andrea Mara: it was like so
10:34
video1902974583: people,
10:35
Andrea Mara: a windy route, um, never really just the straight overnight thing, I guess
10:40
video1902974583: Mm.
10:41
video1902974583: I mean, from the outside as well, it really appears that, you know, y- you've been such a successful author and that you're, you're really living the, the dreams of many, many authors as well.
10:51
video1902974583: Um, what did success Did it feel Like, it looks like it was quite inevitable at the time, but d- have you had those ups and downs throughout the process as well?
10:59
video1902974583: Oh, my God, every day.
11:00
video1902974583: Every day, ups and downs.
11:02
Andrea Mara: I mean, so the first book was with an Irish publisher, and I didn't realize it at
11:08
video1902974583: time.
11:09
video1902974583: I didn't have an
11:09
Andrea Mara: agent.
11:10
Andrea Mara: And, uh, because I was offered
11:12
video1902974583: deal,
11:12
Andrea Mara: I thought,"Oh, this is fine.
11:13
Andrea Mara: I don't need an agent," because I foolishly,
11:16
video1902974583: thought
11:16
Andrea Mara: agents are just there
11:18
video1902974583: to get you
11:19
Andrea Mara: a book deal, and then after that you don't need one.
11:21
Andrea Mara: Of course, now that I have an agent, I understand
11:24
video1902974583: they
11:24
Andrea Mara: do so much more
11:26
video1902974583: that.
11:26
video1902974583: And again, in case
11:27
Andrea Mara: any of your listeners don't know it, I mean, they look at every contract that you get sent.
11:33
Andrea Mara: They hold your hand when things are going wrong.
11:36
Andrea Mara: They will Lots of agents will do editorial work before you go out on
11:41
video1902974583: or even
11:41
Andrea Mara: before you send your book to an editor while you're in contract.
11:45
Andrea Mara: So I,
11:46
video1902974583: I
11:46
Andrea Mara: didn't realize they do all of that.
11:48
Andrea Mara: I, like so many
11:50
video1902974583: nearly bit
11:51
Andrea Mara: the hand off
11:52
video1902974583: publisher
11:52
Andrea Mara: to sign
11:53
video1902974583: contract.
11:53
video1902974583: I remember
11:54
Andrea Mara: it was by post, which sounds
11:56
video1902974583: very archaic
11:57
Andrea Mara: now, even though it was only, um, 10 years ago, and I remember signing it and getting
12:03
video1902974583: back
12:04
Andrea Mara: in the post box as
12:05
video1902974583: as
12:05
Andrea Mara: I could,'cause I was afraid they would rescind the offer.
12:08
Andrea Mara: But then I discovered too late that the publisher, because they were small and Irish and independent, they didn't have any distribution in the UK.
12:18
Andrea Mara: So, um, over here, typically the way it works, because Ireland is such a small country, we really need UK publishers maybe with an Irish d- um, arm to them, or maybe you've got an Irish
12:33
video1902974583: deal, but
12:34
Andrea Mara: there is a bigger UK publisher.
12:35
Andrea Mara: Like, say there's Hachette Ireland and there's Hachette UK, so Hachette Ireland can fall in u- under Hachette UK and you have the possibility of distribution
12:44
video1902974583: in the UK,
12:45
Andrea Mara: which is 10 times
12:46
video1902974583: size of Ireland,
12:47
Andrea Mara: more than 10 times.
12:48
Andrea Mara: But my publisher didn't have that.
12:50
Andrea Mara: So it was very lovely to see my book for sale in every bookshop in Ireland, but then the realization that it could I
12:59
video1902974583: never sell more
12:59
Andrea Mara: books.
13:00
Andrea Mara: And in Ireland, I would say we are a book-buying country.
13:05
Andrea Mara: Um, you know, the per capita book buying is, is higher than in the UK.
13:10
Andrea Mara: But there just isn't the population to really make a big career
13:15
video1902974583: Ireland.
13:15
video1902974583: So
13:15
Andrea Mara: I did three books with that publisher, and before the third one came out, I started writing
13:22
video1902974583: my fourth book and actively
13:24
Andrea Mara: went all out to find an agent because I knew at that stage I wanted a UK publisher.
13:30
Andrea Mara: So definitely not any,
13:32
video1902974583: um,
13:33
Andrea Mara: ever a sense of success, I've made it.
13:36
Andrea Mara: Um, it was always, um, a windy road.
13:39
video1902974583: Mm.
13:40
video1902974583: And then what happened when you did find that agent?
13:44
Andrea Mara: So that was, um, that was nice because there's a
13:48
video1902974583: story behind it.
13:49
video1902974583: I don't know if
13:50
Andrea Mara: you know about that Harrogate Festival in
13:53
video1902974583: UK.
13:53
video1902974583: Mm.
13:53
video1902974583: It's a big,
13:53
Andrea Mara: It's the biggest crime writing festival in the UK, and it sort of ends up being a convention of
13:59
video1902974583: writers
13:59
Andrea Mara: every year.
14:00
video1902974583: Um,
14:01
Andrea Mara: we all go every year, and it's a chance to catch up,
14:05
video1902974583: out, especially for
14:06
Andrea Mara: those of us in Ireland to get to see our UK writer friends because we, we're not n, you
14:11
video1902974583: we have
14:11
Andrea Mara: to fly if we want to see them.
14:13
Andrea Mara: And it's, um, a really fabulous event, and I've been six
14:17
video1902974583: seven times now, and I
14:18
Andrea Mara: love it.
14:19
Andrea Mara: But the very first time I went, I went on my own because somebody told me...
14:23
Andrea Mara: I said,"Well,
14:24
video1902974583: do
14:24
Andrea Mara: you
14:24
video1902974583: to
14:24
Andrea Mara: know people?
14:25
Andrea Mara: What do
14:25
video1902974583: do to get-" Mm into this
14:26
Andrea Mara: community?" And, um,
14:28
video1902974583: she,
14:29
Andrea Mara: is
14:29
video1902974583: a friend of
14:30
Andrea Mara: mine, Catherine Ryan Howard, another Irish
14:32
video1902974583: writer,
14:32
Andrea Mara: but I didn't really
14:33
video1902974583: her back then, and
14:34
Andrea Mara: bless her
14:35
video1902974583: answering
14:35
Andrea Mara: my DM.
14:36
Andrea Mara: She said,"Go to Harrogate." So that's what I did.
14:39
Andrea Mara: Went on my own, knew nobody, um,
14:42
video1902974583: and it
14:43
Andrea Mara: was very awkward
14:45
video1902974583: times.
14:45
video1902974583: Like,
14:45
Andrea Mara: I remember being, sitting
14:47
video1902974583: a bathroom on
14:48
Andrea Mara: my phone
14:48
video1902974583: my friends going,
14:49
Andrea Mara: "What am I doing here?" And they were like,"You can
14:52
video1902974583: it.
14:52
Andrea Mara: You'll
14:52
video1902974583: fine."
14:53
Andrea Mara: And
14:53
video1902974583: were times I
14:54
Andrea Mara: was...
14:54
Andrea Mara: It, it all takes place
14:55
video1902974583: a
14:55
Andrea Mara: hotel, um, and the grounds of the hotel, and there's
14:58
video1902974583: marquee,
14:59
Andrea Mara: and it's really lovely.
15:00
video1902974583: there were
15:00
Andrea Mara: times I was
15:01
video1902974583: sitting in the lobby of the hotel
15:03
Andrea Mara: on my phone going,"It's fine.
15:04
Andrea Mara: Nobody knows that I'm here on my own.
15:07
Andrea Mara: I just look like a
15:08
video1902974583: taking a break
15:08
Andrea Mara: on Instagram in the middle of all of this." And I went
15:12
video1902974583: there's this organized author
15:13
Andrea Mara: dinner, and I bought a ticket for that because I thought,"Well, that'll be something to do." And I sat next to another author who was kind
15:20
video1902974583: at
15:20
Andrea Mara: the
15:21
video1902974583: stage
15:21
Andrea Mara: as me, and we chatted and bonded, and I hung out with her then the rest of
15:25
video1902974583: night.
15:25
Andrea Mara: And she had another friend called Roz Watkins and
15:29
video1902974583: us that
15:30
Andrea Mara: night in
15:30
video1902974583: the marquee.
15:31
video1902974583: And Roz was
15:32
Andrea Mara: talking about her agent, um, in glowing terms.
15:35
Andrea Mara: I, it, it was so clear she really loved and respected her agent, and she
15:39
video1902974583: her name, Diana Beaumont.
15:41
video1902974583: So
15:41
Andrea Mara: then six months later,
15:43
video1902974583: I was
15:43
Andrea Mara: starting to look for agents for what
15:46
video1902974583: my
15:46
Andrea Mara: fourth book,
15:47
video1902974583: was
15:47
Andrea Mara: All Her Fault, I contacted Roz and I said,"Do you mind if I reach out to your agent, Diana?" And she was like,"Of course, no problem." And I, um, I did that, and Diana happened to
16:00
video1902974583: coming
16:01
Andrea Mara: to Ireland a few weeks later and she said,"Oh, could we meet?"
16:05
video1902974583: And we did, and
16:06
Andrea Mara: we just bonded straight away.
16:08
Andrea Mara: We really
16:09
video1902974583: She's,
16:09
Andrea Mara: I, Diana bonds with everyone.
16:11
Andrea Mara: She's a really warm
16:13
Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
16:14
Andrea Mara: person that just gets on well with everybody.
16:17
Andrea Mara: And at
16:19
video1902974583: we, we connected.
16:20
Andrea Mara: We were, I think
16:21
video1902974583: both knew that we
16:22
Andrea Mara: wanted to sign, um, so that
16:25
video1902974583: would
16:25
Andrea Mara: represent me.
16:26
Andrea Mara: But at the end of the chat, I asked her, I was like,"What
16:28
video1902974583: you to
16:28
Andrea Mara: Ireland anyway?" Um,'cause
16:30
video1902974583: met
16:30
Andrea Mara: in Dun Laoghaire, which is near enough to where I live.
16:33
Andrea Mara: And she said,"Oh, my husband is from here, so we're over visiting because his family have just sold their family home." And I said,"Oh,
16:42
video1902974583: Is that
16:42
Andrea Mara: down here in Dun Laoghaire?" And she said,"No, no, no.
16:44
Andrea Mara: It's
16:44
video1902974583: a little further up near Foxrock
16:46
Andrea Mara: Church.
16:47
video1902974583: don't
16:47
Andrea Mara: know if you know that." And I said,"Oh, no, I do, because we're house hunting there at the moment."
16:51
video1902974583: last week
16:52
Andrea Mara: we bid on a house, but we, we lost out on it, and then we realized it was her husband's
16:58
video1902974583: home- Oh we
16:59
Andrea Mara: had bid on.
17:00
Andrea Mara: So, um, that, uh, slight bit of drama did not deter us, and we, um, signed on the dotted line seven years ago now.
17:10
Andrea Mara: And yeah, she has completely changed
17:12
video1902974583: life because- Wow sh-
17:13
Andrea Mara: when we went on submission then,
17:16
video1902974583: Um, in 2020, um,
17:17
Andrea Mara: um, in 2020, um, in the middle of lockdown, um, she obviously being a UK agent was submitting
17:23
video1902974583: UK publishers, which is
17:25
Andrea Mara: how I ended up with Transworld, who are part of Penguin in the UK.
17:30
Andrea Mara: And yeah, that, that transformed everything for me
17:34
video1902974583: Wow.
17:35
video1902974583: Well, uh, we should talk about All Her Fault, but I'm a bit concerned.
17:38
video1902974583: Are you sick of talking about All Her Fault, Andrea?
17:40
video1902974583: Never.
17:41
video1902974583: No, I'm
17:41
Andrea Mara: never gonna be
17:42
video1902974583: of talking about it.
17:44
video1902974583: I'm so happy.
17:45
video1902974583: That's so good.
17:45
video1902974583: And it's actually the book that brought us together,'cause we have a fun story, don't we?
17:49
video1902974583: Yeah.
17:50
Andrea Mara: Yeah.
17:50
Andrea Mara: See, I love all these stories.
17:52
Andrea Mara: Um, so yeah, so All Her Fault was my fourth book and came out
17:59
video1902974583: and
18:00
Andrea Mara: a few months later I got an email that a production company were interested.
18:04
Andrea Mara: That was very exciting, because it was my first time discovering
18:07
video1902974583: world
18:07
Andrea Mara: of film options.
18:09
Andrea Mara: And then I, I was getting updates
18:11
video1902974583: they
18:11
Andrea Mara: were
18:12
video1902974583: talks
18:12
Andrea Mara: with various people, then that they were in talks with Peacock.
18:15
Andrea Mara: I had never heard of Peacock.
18:16
video1902974583: had
18:16
Andrea Mara: to Google them.
18:17
video1902974583: They're a NBC streamer
18:19
Andrea Mara: in the US.
18:20
Andrea Mara: And then I got a phone call from my agent in February 2024 to say,"Check your email.
18:27
Andrea Mara: Check your email." And when I looked at my email, it was a link to Variety or Hollywood Reporter to say that Peacock had green-lit All Her Fault, and it was going straight to an eight-part series.
18:39
Andrea Mara: So that was a really, one of the most
18:43
video1902974583: and I've I'm always interested in this.
18:44
video1902974583: So'cause when it's been optioned,
18:45
Madeleine Cleary: optioned, that doesn't necessarily mean that
18:48
video1902974583: it that, that it's going to be made.
18:50
video1902974583: Like, that's the first step, isn't it?
18:51
video1902974583: And the, the green light is the that's, that's the sta- stage where you wanna get to, isn't it?
18:57
video1902974583: Absolutely.
18:58
video1902974583: So
18:58
Andrea Mara: the option, um, the chances of it being made from an option alone is about 5%, so it's tiny.
19:06
Andrea Mara: And I knew that going in and that was
19:09
video1902974583: good thing to
19:09
Andrea Mara: know, because
19:10
video1902974583: would
19:10
Andrea Mara: not Like, I mean, all of my books are,
19:13
video1902974583: are under option,
19:14
Andrea Mara: and you would not wanna be going around thinking that means all of them are gonna be TV shows, because that would be so disappointing then when they're not.
19:21
Andrea Mara: Um, so that's why, like once it was optioned
19:24
video1902974583: we
19:24
Andrea Mara: had
19:25
video1902974583: that,
19:25
Andrea Mara: I just put it out of my head for the most part
19:27
video1902974583: because- You
19:28
Andrea Mara: just have to get on with writing books, and I knew there was only a very, very
19:32
video1902974583: chance it would
19:33
Andrea Mara: happen.
19:34
Andrea Mara: And even when I was getting emails about them being
19:36
video1902974583: talks
19:37
Andrea Mara: with Peacock, I still kind of thought,"Okay, that's amazing and fun and exciting, but now I'm gonna put it aside again because maybe nothing will ever happen." So when I did get that link
19:46
video1902974583: Hollywood Reporter,
19:47
Andrea Mara: it was
19:48
video1902974583: a huge shock.
19:49
video1902974583: Mm.
19:49
video1902974583: I did not have any expectation that
19:51
Andrea Mara: this
19:52
video1902974583: going to happen, and I, I
19:53
Andrea Mara: didn't even know it was imminent.
19:55
Andrea Mara: Um,
19:55
video1902974583: which
19:56
Andrea Mara: I understand too because the production company don't want
19:59
video1902974583: to
19:59
Andrea Mara: be getting
19:59
video1902974583: hopes up when- Mm-hmm maybe nothing is going to come of it.
20:02
video1902974583: And so often you hear stories, I
20:04
Andrea Mara: have heard time
20:05
video1902974583: again,
20:05
Andrea Mara: about people who were this close to the TV show happening, but then the person
20:10
video1902974583: the TV company,
20:12
Andrea Mara: um, is moved or fired or be- goes
20:16
video1902974583: another department,
20:17
Andrea Mara: and the new person comes in and they literally wipe the slate clean and start over with all their own projects.
20:23
Andrea Mara: So you are vulnerable to that happening at any given time.
20:25
Andrea Mara: So I think you just have to roll with the fun news when it happens, but until you U-
20:32
video1902974583: uh, until first
20:33
Andrea Mara: day of filming
20:35
video1902974583: can't really let
20:36
Andrea Mara: out a breath,
20:36
video1902974583: And
20:37
Andrea Mara: I probably didn't until I saw
20:39
video1902974583: first episode,
20:40
Andrea Mara: um, of All Her Fault when it was sent to me a few weeks
20:43
video1902974583: it went on
20:44
Andrea Mara: air.
20:44
Andrea Mara: I think maybe that was
20:45
video1902974583: moment of,"Oh, okay,
20:47
Andrea Mara: this is real." Um, but then, yes, our story of how we met was
20:51
video1902974583: was fun because So I discovered,
20:55
Andrea Mara: eh, filming was gonna be taking place in
20:57
video1902974583: Melbourne,
20:57
Andrea Mara: although the show is set in Soca- Chicago and the book is set in Dublin.
21:02
Andrea Mara: And, um, your, your lovely Sarah Snook was starring in it and, uh,
21:07
video1902974583: everybody else was- Which is amazing.
21:09
video1902974583: Like, isn't that- Yeah it must have been incredible to find out that Sarah Snook
21:13
Andrea Mara: I
21:13
video1902974583: is- Yeah, I screamed so
21:15
Andrea Mara: loud.
21:15
Andrea Mara: Like, fun fact, the main character in
21:19
video1902974583: Such A Nice
21:19
Andrea Mara: Girl is called Siobhan because I was watching season five of Succession when I was putting together the outline for that book at a time when
21:27
video1902974583: I
21:27
Andrea Mara: knew nothing about Sarah Snook being in All Her Fault.
21:31
Andrea Mara: So I l- I called
21:33
video1902974583: Siobhan
21:34
Andrea Mara: after Shiv
21:34
video1902974583: Succession
21:35
Andrea Mara: way
21:36
video1902974583: I knew that
21:36
Andrea Mara: Sarah Snook and I would ever cross paths.
21:40
Madeleine Cleary: So,
21:40
Andrea Mara: So,
21:40
video1902974583: That's so funny there you go.
21:41
video1902974583: That
21:41
Andrea Mara: how
21:42
video1902974583: kind of manifest.
21:44
video1902974583: That is.
21:44
video1902974583: Just while you're- I love that.
21:45
video1902974583: Yes.
21:46
video1902974583: We'll get our vision boards out and start putting the people out.
21:49
video1902974583: I think that's wonderful.
21:50
video1902974583: Yeah.
21:50
video1902974583: And naming characters in books.
21:51
video1902974583: Okay, that's a really good tip.
21:53
video1902974583: But yeah, it was so wild,'cause I got an email at work saying,"By the way, there's gonna be a big film production, um, right outside your office, our office," um, and
22:02
Madeleine Cleary: it
22:02
video1902974583: called All Her Fault at the time.
22:04
Madeleine Cleary: I
22:04
video1902974583: like, I hadn't read the book yet.
22:06
video1902974583: I was like,"Oh, this is interesting." And so where I was at work, and, um, we're getting a coffee, and I was walking down the street, and it looked like they'd transformed into...
22:14
video1902974583: and that, that amazing scene, now I've seen it, now I understand it, the Chicago Marathon.
22:19
video1902974583: Yeah.
22:20
video1902974583: Um, which wasn't actually a scene in the book, but,
22:22
Madeleine Cleary: you know.
22:23
video1902974583: And, um, and then as I was walking to the coffee shop, saw Sarah Snook there.
22:27
video1902974583: I was like,"Oh my gosh, this is amazing."
22:29
Madeleine Cleary: She was wearing her red, red jacket.
22:32
video1902974583: Um, and I-
22:32
Madeleine Cleary: snapped a photo, tagged you on
22:35
video1902974583: didn't think you'd see it, and then we just started chatting from that, which was great.
22:38
video1902974583: Yeah.
22:39
video1902974583: And we got to meet- Yeah in
22:40
Madeleine Cleary: Melbourne.
22:41
video1902974583: And
22:41
Andrea Mara: I, I loved seeing those kind of photos and hearing that news,'cause I was I'm in Dublin,
22:47
video1902974583: so
22:47
Andrea Mara: far away, so it was kind of strange for me feeling this is all happening on the other side of the world
22:54
video1902974583: and
22:54
Andrea Mara: I'm not
22:54
video1902974583: part of
22:55
Andrea Mara: it, and I would love to be able to see what
22:58
video1902974583: like or
22:59
Andrea Mara: feel
22:59
video1902974583: part
23:00
Andrea Mara: of it.
23:00
Andrea Mara: So those kind of messages and photos m-
23:02
video1902974583: meant a
23:03
Andrea Mara: huge amount
23:04
video1902974583: me at the time.
23:05
video1902974583: And
23:05
Andrea Mara: in the meantime, I was, like, begging my TV agent.
23:08
Andrea Mara: I was like,"Please, can you try and get
23:11
video1902974583: to
23:11
Andrea Mara: agree that I can go to set
23:13
video1902974583: to
23:13
Andrea Mara: visit the set?" Because I just thought,"This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and I
23:18
video1902974583: really
23:18
Andrea Mara: want to do it," and I begged.
23:20
Andrea Mara: And I finally got the okay that I could go.
23:23
Andrea Mara: And, like, I A few people back here had said
23:26
video1902974583: me afterwards,
23:27
Andrea Mara: um,"Gosh, so do you think they'll need
23:29
video1902974583: to go back on
23:30
Andrea Mara: set again?" And I was like,"They never needed me.
23:33
Andrea Mara: I begged for them
23:34
video1902974583: let me go there."
23:35
Andrea Mara: Um, but they're, they were very
23:37
video1902974583: about it and very welcoming.
23:39
video1902974583: And I got to spend a week in Melbourne, and I got
23:42
Andrea Mara: to
23:42
video1902974583: you and
23:43
Andrea Mara: get a
23:43
video1902974583: tour of
23:44
Andrea Mara: Melbourne, which was such a highlight of my trip.
23:47
Andrea Mara: I absolutely loved it, and I've been back here telling everybody who'll listen how lovely you are, how lovely
23:54
video1902974583: in Melbourne are- Aw and how proud everyone
23:57
Andrea Mara: is of Melbourne.
23:58
Andrea Mara: Uh, that really
23:59
video1902974583: stood out
24:00
Andrea Mara: to me while I was there.
24:01
Andrea Mara: Anyone I chatted to in coffee shops or
24:04
video1902974583: any
24:04
Andrea Mara: other kind of shops, they're really proud of being Melbourne people, and
24:09
video1902974583: I love that.
24:10
video1902974583: Oh.
24:10
video1902974583: We have a complex because Sydney has all the, all the dramatic things, so we have to, we have to be proud down here in down south.
24:16
video1902974583: We've got the coffee.
24:17
video1902974583: We've got the coffee, exactly.
24:19
video1902974583: And, and the footy.
24:20
video1902974583: Actually, you'll have to come- Okay s- during a season so we can go and to a footy game.
24:24
video1902974583: That's the true Melbourne- Okay.
24:25
video1902974583: experience then.
24:26
video1902974583: Um, so, um, how I, actually, just quickly, d- were you involved in any of the script making or the development of the production?
24:35
video1902974583: How involved were you?
24:35
video1902974583: 'Cause I know some authors are really involved, aren't they?
24:38
Andrea Mara: No.
24:39
Andrea Mara: I mean, some authors will be on, um, will be screenwriters.
24:44
Andrea Mara: Um, so like
24:45
video1902974583: example, with
24:46
Andrea Mara: Hamnet, um, the,
24:49
video1902974583: that was
24:49
Andrea Mara: a co-screenwriting, um, for the entire script.
24:54
Andrea Mara: But
24:54
video1902974583: me,
24:55
Andrea Mara: I'm not a screenwriter.
24:56
Andrea Mara: I did not put my hand up and say,"Please,
24:58
video1902974583: I
24:58
Andrea Mara: be involved?" And I'm
25:00
video1902974583: they
25:00
Andrea Mara: were very relieved about that.
25:02
video1902974583: And I, uh,
25:03
Andrea Mara: read them on
25:05
video1902974583: I was sent all the scripts, and I read them on
25:08
Andrea Mara: the way over on the plane,
25:10
video1902974583: And
25:10
Andrea Mara: it
25:11
video1902974583: great
25:11
Andrea Mara: to be able to know in advance,
25:13
video1902974583: especially
25:14
Andrea Mara: to know all the new things they were adding in.
25:16
video1902974583: Um,
25:18
Andrea Mara: and in a way, I missed
25:19
video1902974583: all the things that are in the
25:21
Andrea Mara: book because I was focusing on the extra elements that had been
25:25
video1902974583: added in.
25:25
video1902974583: And
25:26
Andrea Mara: it was nice then when I was actually watching the show, when I was recognizing scenes that are
25:31
video1902974583: the book.
25:32
video1902974583: Mm-hmm.
25:32
video1902974583: And I kept
25:32
Andrea Mara: nudging my husband going,"That bit's from the book." And after a while, I think
25:35
video1902974583: was
25:36
Andrea Mara: like,"Will we just watch
25:37
video1902974583: though
25:37
Andrea Mara: instead of you telling me that?" So no, I wasn't involved in the
25:41
video1902974583: But
25:41
Andrea Mara: I did get to give, uh, we, we were in the production office in Melbourne, and we were all I was
25:49
video1902974583: off
25:49
Andrea Mara: reading scripts and I was sitting beside Megan Gallagher, who was the screenwriter, and a
25:54
video1902974583: other people
25:54
Andrea Mara: there.
25:55
Andrea Mara: And I did spot something that I felt could be
25:58
video1902974583: spoiler, could sow a seed in the audience's mind.
26:01
Andrea Mara: And I was like,"Will
26:02
video1902974583: say
26:02
Andrea Mara: it?
26:03
Andrea Mara: Will I not say it?" And I wasn't sure.
26:05
Andrea Mara: And then I was
26:05
video1902974583: "No, I'm
26:06
Andrea Mara: gonna say it.
26:06
Andrea Mara: I think this is important."
26:07
video1902974583: And
26:08
Andrea Mara: when I said it, the, the script editor
26:10
video1902974583: was
26:11
Andrea Mara: there said,"Oh, actually,
26:12
video1902974583: got that note from
26:13
Andrea Mara: someone else as well." So they were like,"Okay, yeah, let's take that out." So I was like,"I'm gonna
26:17
video1902974583: Good on you, Andrea.
26:19
video1902974583: take
26:19
Andrea Mara: credit for this."
26:21
video1902974583: That's amazing.
26:22
video1902974583: And they did such a phenomenal job.
26:24
video1902974583: Like, I, I mean obviously I've read the book and watched the TV series, and the book is like a fantastic read.
26:30
video1902974583: Um, and I think that the adaptation really captured that sort of, you know, sense of dread, the rising tension, the suspense,'cause there's so many, you know, hooks that keep you in.
26:40
video1902974583: And it was, it was wonderful to watch, and not just because it was filmed in Melbourne as well.
26:45
video1902974583: Yeah.
26:45
Andrea Mara: yeah.
26:46
Andrea Mara: No, I loved it, and I feel very lucky because, like we all know, there's every type of TV show out there, and some are not great,
26:54
video1902974583: some- Mm-hmm get pulled
26:55
Andrea Mara: apart by critics, and some get pulled apart by audiences.
26:58
Andrea Mara: And you, you sign away, you sign your option, and after that it's out of your hands, and they can do whatever they want with it.
27:06
Andrea Mara: So I do feel very lucky.
27:09
Andrea Mara: Like when
27:09
video1902974583: watched
27:10
Andrea Mara: it, we had a watch party here in my house,
27:12
video1902974583: um,
27:13
Andrea Mara: the day it aired, and, uh, some of my writer friends were here, and one of them, she was just like,"Okay, that is
27:22
video1902974583: prestige
27:22
Andrea Mara: show.
27:23
Andrea Mara: That could be up for award nominations." And prestige is the word that stayed with me because I think it is.
27:30
Andrea Mara: Like, it has that elevated look and feel to it, and I just, yeah, I loved it.
27:36
Andrea Mara: I, I'm very happy to be able to talk about it and stand over it.
27:40
Andrea Mara: And, um, at the beginning when people would say to me,"Your show," I'd be like,"Well, you know, it's
27:45
video1902974583: my show.
27:46
video1902974583: I just wrote the book."
27:47
Andrea Mara: And then after, I was like,"Just thanks."
27:49
video1902974583: And, and I mean, look at, you're off to something very exciting over the weekend, aren't you?
27:55
Andrea Mara: Yes, flying to LA for the Emmys and
27:59
video1902974583: nominated seven times yeah which is incredible.
28:02
video1902974583: So that prestige, that feeling you got was
28:04
Madeleine Cleary: accurate
28:06
video1902974583: Yeah.
28:06
Andrea Mara: and it's, um, just a pinch me moment to be going
28:11
video1902974583: the Emmys.
28:11
video1902974583: Like, something we
28:13
Andrea Mara: all know about and have heard of, and yeah, I, I
28:17
video1902974583: I
28:17
Andrea Mara: do not know what to expect, but I'm
28:19
video1902974583: take, like, 5,000
28:20
Andrea Mara: photos and just soak up every moment, and really, really
28:25
video1902974583: about it.
28:26
video1902974583: Where do you go from here now, Andrea?
28:27
video1902974583: I mean, you've hit a lot of author goals.
28:30
video1902974583: What does success look like in future
28:32
Madeleine Cleary: now?
28:33
video1902974583: Well, I
28:34
Andrea Mara: would love to, I'd love to break America.
28:38
Andrea Mara: I
28:39
video1902974583: not
28:39
Andrea Mara: break America, that
28:40
video1902974583: bad.
28:41
Andrea Mara: Um, I, so I've had two books out in
28:45
video1902974583: States so far, and
28:47
Andrea Mara: Such A Nice Girl will be the next one.
28:49
Andrea Mara: That's going to
28:49
video1902974583: out
28:49
Andrea Mara: next March.
28:50
Andrea Mara: And
28:52
video1902974583: it's really hard to
28:53
Andrea Mara: make an impact over there.
28:56
Andrea Mara: And
28:57
video1902974583: if
28:57
Andrea Mara: you're not picked up in one of the national book clubs or in a big Barnes Noble promotion, you can end up kind of slipping
29:05
video1902974583: the
29:05
Andrea Mara: radar and,
29:07
video1902974583: yeah, or the
29:08
Andrea Mara: other thing could
29:09
video1902974583: a big
29:09
Andrea Mara: word of mouth
29:10
video1902974583: thing- Mm like
29:11
Andrea Mara: maybe The Correspondent, um, Theo of Golden, and, you know, that can obviously make a huge difference, and that tends to
29:19
video1902974583: if you're a
29:20
Andrea Mara: kind of a slightly quirky, different, original book.
29:23
Andrea Mara: Um, doesn't tend
29:24
video1902974583: happen for,
29:25
Andrea Mara: um, domestic suspense or
29:27
video1902974583: Psychological thrillers
29:29
Andrea Mara: or authors on their, you know, ninth or tenth book.
29:32
Andrea Mara: So, um, that's one that I, I feel I really want to crack and I have not
29:39
video1902974583: yet.
29:40
Andrea Mara: Like the sales are fine, but I would love someday to have, say, a New York Times bestseller or to really make an impact on the US side
29:50
video1902974583: things.
29:51
video1902974583: Mm, that's so, it's so interesting.
29:53
video1902974583: It's so interesting how different markets are globally, isn't it?
29:56
video1902974583: Um, you know, and, and, and y- I think as well with a huge TV series, you know, that would generate it.
30:02
video1902974583: And I actually remember when w- you were here in Melbourne, um, you were saying how All Her Fault hadn't even been published in the US at the time as well, um, before- Yeah while they were making the TV series.
30:12
video1902974583: And I think the producer was like,"What?
30:14
video1902974583: What do you mean it-" I know"hasn't been published?" Yeah,
30:16
Andrea Mara: and
30:17
video1902974583: that's kinda
30:18
Andrea Mara: hard.
30:18
Andrea Mara: So the, my UK, um, publisher was able to, uh, so there was a TV tie-in edition on sale here in Ireland and in the UK, and they were able to have it distributed in
30:30
video1902974583: US, but
30:30
Andrea Mara: it wasn't, so it wasn't published as such.
30:33
Andrea Mara: It n- it never, it's never been published in the US.
30:36
video1902974583: Um, and like
30:38
Andrea Mara: that moment is over now.
30:39
Andrea Mara: So they, the U- my UK publisher had
30:42
video1902974583: e-book
30:42
Andrea Mara: available in
30:43
video1902974583: US as
30:44
Andrea Mara: well, and that
30:44
video1902974583: great because we got- Mm great sales when the TV show was out,
30:48
Andrea Mara: but I don't know how many shops the print version was in.
30:52
Andrea Mara: Um, so yeah.
30:54
video1902974583: But look- So interesting it is what it is.
30:56
video1902974583: It's so interesting.
30:57
video1902974583: Well, Such A Nice Girl, I'm feeling New York Times bestseller list.
31:01
video1902974583: Um, can you tell us a little bit about, um, Such A Nice Girl and the inspiration behind it as well?
31:07
video1902974583: Yes.
31:07
Andrea Mara: So Such A Nice Girl is about two women who are best friends and their two adult daughters, who are also best friends, or so they think.
31:15
Andrea Mara: And they are all at a big, luxurious family wedding in a big, luxurious house in South Dublin with a swimming pool and a pool house.
31:23
Andrea Mara: And the mom, Siobhan, our main character, called
31:26
video1902974583: Shiv,
31:26
Andrea Mara: she wakes up to missed calls
31:28
video1902974583: her
31:28
Andrea Mara: daughter.
31:29
Andrea Mara: The daughters are 24 years old, and she sees the
31:32
video1902974583: calls, she
31:32
Andrea Mara: gets worried.
31:33
Andrea Mara: She gets her friend, and they go to find the girls in the
31:36
video1902974583: house,
31:37
Andrea Mara: but the girls have disappeared.
31:38
Andrea Mara: And it starts
31:39
video1902974583: become
31:40
Andrea Mara: clear that one of the girls may
31:43
video1902974583: tried to
31:43
Andrea Mara: or
31:44
video1902974583: killed the other.
31:45
Andrea Mara: So the moms have to go find their daughters, but it's really awkward because, um, they each think the other one's daughter must be
31:54
video1902974583: the culprit- Mm and their daughter must
31:56
Andrea Mara: be the victim.
31:56
Andrea Mara: So it puts a bit of a strain on their friendship.
31:59
Andrea Mara: Um, and what it's,
32:01
video1902974583: what,
32:01
Andrea Mara: what's inspired it really was
32:03
video1902974583: when
32:04
Andrea Mara: my kids were small, and they were in, like, nursery or crash or preschool, and every now and then at pickup time, I'd get
32:12
video1902974583: over
32:12
Andrea Mara: by the teacher, and they'd say,"Look, there's been a little incident." And my heart would sink, and they'd say,"And it was
32:20
video1902974583: biting
32:20
Andrea Mara: incident."
32:21
video1902974583: And
32:21
Andrea Mara: I would just think,"Oh, no." And my next thought would be,"Please let my child be the one who was bitten and not
32:28
video1902974583: biter." And
32:29
Andrea Mara: then I would feel
32:29
video1902974583: really,
32:30
Andrea Mara: really guilty for
32:31
video1902974583: that.
32:31
video1902974583: But
32:32
Andrea Mara: parents who hear that
32:34
video1902974583: all agree,
32:35
Andrea Mara: you do not wanna be the one whose child is going around terrorizing everyone else's children.
32:42
Andrea Mara: Um, so it's kinda like the grown-up version of that.
32:45
video1902974583: Mm, mm.
32:46
video1902974583: Such a, it's such a good setup.
32:48
video1902974583: And, um, like All Her Fault, it really sort of hooks you, and like all your books, really hooks you in straight away.
32:54
video1902974583: Um, and not n- necessarily in the way that we do it in, like, our traditional Aussie outback, you know, rural crime noir books, where we have the body in the bush.
33:03
video1902974583: Um- Mm-hmm you know, it kind of peers out, like, very Jane Harper-esque.
33:06
video1902974583: But, you know, with Such a Nice Girl, there's no body, no answers at the start, um, and such a great setup line.
33:13
video1902974583: How much time do you spend crafting that opening and that setup and, and the tagline as well?
33:18
video1902974583: Because that's also really important, isn't it, to hook people
33:21
Madeleine Cleary: in?
33:22
video1902974583: Yeah,
33:22
Andrea Mara: like I do put a lot of time into planning the outline and I have to know
33:27
video1902974583: ending before
33:28
Andrea Mara: I start writing.
33:28
Andrea Mara: But also now my editor makes
33:31
video1902974583: do
33:31
Andrea Mara: that.
33:31
Andrea Mara: So I have to, so I run the ideas past him.
33:35
video1902974583: says yes
33:36
Andrea Mara: or no and if he likes one of
33:38
video1902974583: ideas, he'll say,
33:39
Andrea Mara: "Okay, you go flesh that out." And I'll put together an outline that I think is ready to go and then he'll
33:45
video1902974583: send it back with notes going,"But
33:47
Andrea Mara: why would this happen and how would that happen?" And I'm like,"Oh,
33:50
video1902974583: I not just figure it
33:50
Andrea Mara: out when I'm in the middle of writing?" But he's, he's the loveliest person you could ever meet and people when they meet him they're always like,"Oh, I'd say he's so nice," and he is nice, but he does not give in and if he wants me to keep working on something
34:06
video1902974583: and
34:06
Andrea Mara: make sure it's right before we start going, um, he, he will keep pushing back very nicely, but he'll keep pushing back.
34:14
Andrea Mara: So I would know the main outline of the story before I start writing, but that's like, that's just a way that suits
34:22
video1902974583: and
34:22
Andrea Mara: suits
34:22
video1902974583: editor as
34:23
Andrea Mara: well and there are lots of authors I know
34:27
video1902974583: do not plan
34:28
Andrea Mara: and just start writing and, you know, that works for
34:32
video1902974583: So I, I definitely I don't think
34:34
Andrea Mara: there's one right way to do it.
34:36
video1902974583: Um, people just have to
34:38
Andrea Mara: find what works best for them.
34:40
video1902974583: Mm.
34:41
video1902974583: I, I'm actually relieved to hear that you plan, Andrea, because you, you have so many twists that run through the novel, and also different timelines, different perspectives.
34:52
video1902974583: Um, I, I'm actually a, a pantser, so I write on the seat of my pants, so I
34:56
Madeleine Cleary: I actually
34:56
video1902974583: know what's happening.
34:57
video1902974583: And I did hear a writer saying that if you do write crime, there does come a point, even a- as a pantser, and perhaps it's in the editing, where you do have to plan.
35:07
video1902974583: Mm.
35:07
video1902974583: Because otherwise you just get Your brain can't, can't hold so many twists and turns and, and red herrings and misdirects.
35:16
video1902974583: Yeah, I think
35:17
Andrea Mara: so.
35:18
Andrea Mara: And I think,
35:18
video1902974583: uh, certainly
35:20
Andrea Mara: I think crime is, is a very specific example.
35:23
Andrea Mara: Like,
35:24
video1902974583: i- if your
35:25
Andrea Mara: plot is your thing, and for me it is.
35:28
Andrea Mara: Like, I mean,
35:28
video1902974583: I hope that people like
35:30
Andrea Mara: the characters and dislike
35:32
video1902974583: ones they're supposed to dislike- Mm-hmm and root for the characters and
35:35
Andrea Mara: care about it, and sometimes cry
35:37
video1902974583: when,
35:38
Andrea Mara: you know, I want them
35:39
video1902974583: cry.
35:39
video1902974583: But overall, my
35:41
Andrea Mara: purpose, my aim is to entertain and keep the reader turning pages to find out what's going
35:47
video1902974583: happen.
35:48
Andrea Mara: So plot is my starting point, and then I build and develop the characters and
35:53
video1902974583: setting
35:53
Andrea Mara: around that once
35:54
video1902974583: know what
35:55
Andrea Mara: the
35:55
video1902974583: is.
35:55
video1902974583: So
35:56
Andrea Mara: I, I don't think I could do this without planning because the, a lot of the, the
36:04
video1902974583: and
36:04
Andrea Mara: the reveals are, they're,
36:06
video1902974583: seeds are being sown all
36:08
Andrea Mara: the way through.
36:08
Andrea Mara: And you can definitely reverse engineer.
36:10
Andrea Mara: Like, I can be two-thirds of the way through and
36:12
video1902974583: of a
36:12
Andrea Mara: new twist and go,"Aha, I'm gonna add that in."
36:15
video1902974583: then as
36:16
Andrea Mara: I revise and write the next draft, I can now start
36:20
video1902974583: in
36:20
Andrea Mara: the foreshadowing for that twist.
36:23
Andrea Mara: So that's fine.
36:24
Andrea Mara: But I think
36:24
video1902974583: me, it just works better
36:26
Andrea Mara: if I can plot it all out in advance.
36:29
Andrea Mara: And I mean, I know some people have said to me,"Oh my God, but what does that look like plotting the whole thing out?" And I'm like,"Well,
36:35
video1902974583: it's
36:36
Andrea Mara: three pages."
36:37
video1902974583: it's not, Mm-hmm
36:38
Andrea Mara: you know, it's, it's an outline.
36:40
Andrea Mara: You still have to make up each
36:42
video1902974583: chapter
36:42
Andrea Mara: as you go through.
36:44
Andrea Mara: And at, at that micro level, what I often do is, and when I'm finished writing whatever I'm writing for the day, I'll just get out
36:52
video1902974583: pen
36:52
Andrea Mara: and notebook
36:53
video1902974583: and
36:54
Andrea Mara: bullet point what might happen in the next chapter tomorrow morning, which is just a way of not facing a blank screen,'cause that feeling of waking up and looking at the blank screen, I don't love that.
37:05
Andrea Mara: But if I've got my notebook
37:06
video1902974583: that says,
37:07
Andrea Mara: "Okay, chapter 27, they're gonna go meet that guy who they heard had seen
37:13
video1902974583: dead person,"
37:13
Andrea Mara: or whatever it is, um, and then I've got a
37:16
video1902974583: off
37:17
Andrea Mara: point and it just makes it much easier for me.
37:19
Andrea Mara: Um, and I, yeah, I fully...
37:23
Andrea Mara: And like, I do have lots of friends who don't plan and say that they would get bored if they were planning it, and I'm kind of like, I get that, but also I find writing a
37:36
video1902974583: draft really difficult no matter
37:38
Andrea Mara: what.
37:39
Andrea Mara: I find it very daunting.
37:40
Andrea Mara: So I'm kinda like, it's not about me being bored or not bored.
37:44
Andrea Mara: This is my job and I have to do the best I can in coming up
37:49
video1902974583: this story.
37:50
video1902974583: And then
37:51
Andrea Mara: I get
37:51
video1902974583: go
37:51
Andrea Mara: to the second draft, which I love because
37:54
video1902974583: now
37:54
Andrea Mara: I've got my story down on paper.
37:56
video1902974583: I
37:57
Andrea Mara: know it has an ending,
37:59
video1902974583: and I can go
37:59
Andrea Mara: and play around now with the detail, adding in
38:03
video1902974583: the,
38:04
Andrea Mara: the layers and the color and developing the characters and so that's my fun time, is the second draft before I'm handing it in to my editor.
38:12
video1902974583: Oh, that's really, really good advice.
38:14
video1902974583: I think the, the book really shapes itself in the redrafting, doesn't it?
38:17
video1902974583: And it's always- Oh a fun, fun time to
38:20
Madeleine Cleary: do it.
38:20
video1902974583: Um, you know, you said that, you said that you are focused on plot, but actually, I, I really think that the One of the things that I really enjoy about your novels is that we go deep, really deep into the psyche of your characters.
38:33
video1902974583: And, you know, you do, you do tend to root for them, but
38:35
Madeleine Cleary: they- they're not always likable
38:37
video1902974583: people as well.
38:38
video1902974583: But you still And they sometimes make pretty poor decisions, but we still are rooting for them, and I think there's a skill in that.
38:44
video1902974583: So I guess, how do you keep the tension going while also going into the, to the character?
38:49
video1902974583: It's not just a typical crime, detective kind of series.
38:52
video1902974583: Like, you are actually exploring, that domestic understanding of how we, how we see each other.
38:58
Andrea Mara: Yeah, I mean, I could not write a police procedural or a detective fiction because I just don't know anything about it and I would
39:05
video1902974583: have to make
39:06
Andrea Mara: it all up.
39:07
Andrea Mara: So writing domestic suspense, psychological
39:10
video1902974583: is much
39:10
Andrea Mara: easier for me because it's always
39:12
video1902974583: about families
39:13
Andrea Mara: and neighbors and school moms and friends and that feeling of when you're walking around your neighborhood and everything looks lovely on the surface, but what's going on
39:24
video1902974583: closed
39:24
Andrea Mara: doors?
39:25
Andrea Mara: So that's the kind of thing I like to write because you don't really
39:29
video1902974583: to know
39:30
Andrea Mara: about, you don't have to know about police or what they do to investigate.
39:35
Andrea Mara: You just write about ordinary people living ordinary lives and then something extraordinary
39:40
video1902974583: happens
39:41
Andrea Mara: to them and, um, that's
39:43
video1902974583: easier to make up.
39:44
Andrea Mara: Um,
39:45
video1902974583: but yeah,
39:47
Andrea Mara: like I guess probably in most of my books I am also exploring stuff that's in my head about like all, all bar one of
39:57
video1902974583: books
39:57
Andrea Mara: are about people
40:00
video1902974583: who have
40:00
Andrea Mara: kids, usually kids going missing.
40:03
Andrea Mara: A lot of
40:03
video1902974583: are kids going missing.
40:05
video1902974583: Mm-hmm.
40:05
video1902974583: Mm-hmm.
40:05
video1902974583: And
40:05
Andrea Mara: that is really just because I spent half my kids' early years worrying about
40:10
video1902974583: where
40:11
Andrea Mara: they are.
40:11
Andrea Mara: Like All Her Fault
40:12
video1902974583: based
40:12
Andrea Mara: on
40:12
video1902974583: real story where I had gone to collect my
40:15
Andrea Mara: daughter from a play date and, um, there was nobody there and there was actually nobody living in
40:20
video1902974583: house
40:21
Andrea Mara: and I thought that she had
40:22
video1902974583: kidnapped.
40:23
video1902974583: Hmm.
40:24
video1902974583: And, um,
40:25
Andrea Mara: it was just
40:26
video1902974583: they had moved
40:26
Andrea Mara: house.
40:27
Andrea Mara: But in that moment I genuinely thought she had been
40:31
video1902974583: by these parents- Terrifying in
40:32
Andrea Mara: our school, that they were playing some
40:34
video1902974583: of a
40:34
Andrea Mara: long game,
40:35
video1902974583: which makes no sense, but it was just so
40:38
Andrea Mara: scary at
40:38
video1902974583: time.
40:39
Andrea Mara: So I guess, yeah, like with
40:41
video1902974583: Such
40:42
Andrea Mara: a Nice Girl, it's like
40:44
video1902974583: that awkward
40:44
Andrea Mara: thing
40:45
video1902974583: friends
40:45
Andrea Mara: and like I have a very good friend of mine, we've been friends for 30 years since we, we met in school and she has a daughter who's one week younger than my daughter and when they were born, you know, there was
40:58
video1902974583: lot of
40:59
Andrea Mara: like,"Oh, it's
40:59
video1902974583: cute.
41:00
Andrea Mara: Imagine if they grew up
41:01
video1902974583: be
41:01
Andrea Mara: best friends," and immediately I thought to myself,"Oh God, but what if they were friends and
41:06
video1902974583: they had a falling out?
41:07
video1902974583: And would
41:08
Andrea Mara: that put a strain on my friendship with my friend?" And as it turns out, they, they went to different schools and I don't think they've met since they were about five years old,
41:17
video1902974583: I-
41:17
Andrea Mara: you know, kids are unpredictable.
41:19
Andrea Mara: You don't know what they're gonna do to each other and I think that's always stuck with me, like what if your kid does something to your
41:27
video1902974583: kid?
41:27
video1902974583: Isn't that excruciating?
41:30
video1902974583: Mm.
41:30
video1902974583: So, um, so the books are a way to explore
41:34
Andrea Mara: those kinds
41:35
video1902974583: feelings.
41:35
video1902974583: Yeah, and those what if questions.
41:37
video1902974583: Yeah, that's the setup, isn't it?
41:39
video1902974583: Which, um, I love, and what keeps the pages, the, the readers turning pages, I suppose.
41:44
video1902974583: And do you have any tips?
41:46
video1902974583: Because, I mean, we're in this age now where books are getting shorter and attention spans are getting shorter.
41:51
video1902974583: Your books are really page-turning and propulsive and, you know, it's really hard to put down, and I guess that's what we wanna be as writers, don't we?
41:58
video1902974583: We, we wanna entertain, as you said, and, and we wanna keep readers engaged.
42:03
video1902974583: Uh, Dervla McTiernan said, I heard her speak, and she, she once said that she, um, puts a, a question on each page, so something that keeps the readers turning is every There's like a clue or a question on each page.
42:14
video1902974583: Is, is there something that you employ to keep re- um, uh, readers turning pages?
42:20
Andrea Mara: Yeah, like I would look back on my second or third draft and I, I keep track on a spreadsheet actually.
42:26
Andrea Mara: So this is a way of me keeping myself
42:30
video1902974583: line.
42:30
video1902974583: So after
42:31
Andrea Mara: I have, um, written
42:33
video1902974583: few chapters,
42:34
Andrea Mara: I have
42:34
video1902974583: spreadsheet
42:35
Andrea Mara: where I'll be like chapter one, two,
42:37
video1902974583: and then
42:37
Andrea Mara: the main action in each chapter, whose POV it is, what day it is.
42:41
video1902974583: Um, what the reader knows
42:43
Andrea Mara: now is one of the columns, because obviously if you've multiple POVs, your reader will know things
42:48
video1902974583: that any
42:49
Andrea Mara: given character might not know.
42:51
Andrea Mara: And then I have a column called main, um, you know,
42:54
video1902974583: d-
42:55
Andrea Mara: dramatic event or action.
42:57
Andrea Mara: So I wanna make sure that every single chapter either has an action or a
43:04
video1902974583: reveal or a surprise
43:06
Andrea Mara: of some kind or, um, yeah, some kind of new information.
43:11
Andrea Mara: And if there's a chapter that does none of those things, then I would look at either deleting it or just absorbing it into another chapter.
43:19
Andrea Mara: And I always
43:20
video1902974583: with
43:20
Andrea Mara: All Her Fault, there was a chapter where, um, I think it was Jenny and Richie were having this conversation, um, in what I picture as the financial services area of Dublin, but which of course is Chicago in the, um, in the TV show.
43:41
Andrea Mara: And then in the end when I looked at it, it
43:44
video1902974583: like, yeah, they're
43:45
Andrea Mara: having
43:45
video1902974583: conversation.
43:46
Andrea Mara: We are learning something more about their characters in this, but it's not moving the plot along.
43:50
Andrea Mara: It's nothing really further about Myla's disappearance.
43:54
Andrea Mara: So in the end, I just deleted it.
43:56
Andrea Mara: And there are always chapters like that in every book where nothing much
44:00
video1902974583: happening,
44:01
Andrea Mara: so you've either gotta put something in or get rid of
44:03
video1902974583: chapter.
44:03
Andrea Mara: So every, every line has to be moving the story along.
44:08
Andrea Mara: Now, I
44:08
video1902974583: of
44:09
Andrea Mara: course, some of it is description and setting and whatever, but it's, it's still got
44:15
video1902974583: be adding something
44:16
Andrea Mara: to
44:16
video1902974583: book.
44:16
Andrea Mara: So if I see what looks like padding, like I
44:19
video1902974583: having
44:20
Andrea Mara: a tired morning and I was just, like, writing words for the sake of writing, I'll just, like, I love cutting all that stuff and just, it's very satisfying getting rid of it.
44:29
Andrea Mara: So yes, I would agree with Dervla, like,
44:31
video1902974583: you,
44:31
Andrea Mara: gotta have something on every page to keep the reader turning pages.
44:36
Andrea Mara: And- I do have short chapters
44:39
video1902974583: and people
44:40
Andrea Mara: do message me a lot to say they like short chapters and I would admit that this is really because I run out of steam and like I'm writing something and I'm like, this is hard'cause like I say, I do
44:51
video1902974583: first
44:52
Andrea Mara: drafts really hard and I'm like, it's the end of a scene.
44:55
Andrea Mara: Okay, it's the end of a chapter, um, because now I can go make
44:58
video1902974583: coffee and take a breath- and
45:00
Andrea Mara: start the
45:01
video1902974583: chapter.
45:01
video1902974583: So that's really why the
45:04
Andrea Mara: chapters
45:04
video1902974583: short.
45:05
video1902974583: But of course then, because
45:06
Andrea Mara: people say they like
45:07
video1902974583: short
45:07
Andrea Mara: chapters, I don't do anything to change that.
45:10
Andrea Mara: Um, and I've had
45:12
video1902974583: few messages from people who have
45:14
Andrea Mara: said that they
45:16
video1902974583: ADHD or their kids have
45:17
Andrea Mara: ADHD and they find
45:19
video1902974583: my books
45:20
Andrea Mara: easier
45:21
video1902974583: read
45:21
Andrea Mara: than some other books that they had
45:22
video1902974583: reading, and they think
45:24
Andrea Mara: it's the short chapters that help.
45:26
Andrea Mara: So yeah, who
45:27
video1902974583: No, I love that.
45:28
video1902974583: I mean,'cause I remember, like, when I've read your books, s- you know, often it's after work, late at night, just before bed, and you're pretty tired.
45:35
video1902974583: But when you see that the chapters are only maybe two, three, four pages, you just go,"Oh, one more.
45:40
video1902974583: One more." Yeah.
45:41
video1902974583: Particularly'cause you always leave it on a hook, so, you know, you, you wanna keep reading.
45:44
video1902974583: Yeah.
45:45
video1902974583: So you do it really well.
45:48
video1902974583: Well, you've given us an absolute masterclass in writing crime, Andrea, so thank you so much.
45:53
video1902974583: Um, we always ask our guests to give one final tip, um, for writers.
45:58
video1902974583: So I'm just wondering, you know, over your decade in the industry, what's your, what's your top tip for writers?
46:04
video1902974583: I think it's just
46:05
Andrea Mara: to write that
46:06
video1902974583: draft, because
46:07
Andrea Mara: I think so many people get caught up in what genre am I writing and
46:12
video1902974583: I
46:12
Andrea Mara: need, do I just write it in Word or should I buy some app or platform that I can use?
46:18
Andrea Mara: And,
46:18
video1902974583: you know,
46:19
Andrea Mara: should I be thinking about agents
46:20
video1902974583: publishers
46:21
Andrea Mara: now?
46:21
Andrea Mara: And I'm like,"No, no, no.
46:22
Andrea Mara: Just write the first draft because until you have
46:25
video1902974583: first draft done, you
46:26
Andrea Mara: have nothing that you can take
46:28
video1902974583: a next stage.
46:29
video1902974583: And
46:30
Andrea Mara: once you have that first draft done, and honestly, I think a first draft can be 40,000 words.
46:35
Andrea Mara: It doesn't have to be super long, and it
46:38
video1902974583: be
46:39
Andrea Mara: skeletal.
46:39
Andrea Mara: You don't need to worry about polishing every line at that point.
46:43
Andrea Mara: But if you've got a story that people are gonna be interested in reading,
46:47
video1902974583: if you've
46:47
Andrea Mara: got 40, 50,000 words, then you can go back and, um, polish it and add in
46:54
video1902974583: extra
46:55
Andrea Mara: bits and add in, do your character development, do your descriptions.
46:59
Andrea Mara: And like some, when I'm writing a first draft, some of my chapters are literally dialogue and nothing else, and then I have to go back and give them
47:06
video1902974583: of tea to sip and- put them sitting
47:09
Andrea Mara: at tables and all that stuff.
47:10
Andrea Mara: So I think just write the book, and it can be as bad a book as you want because no one has to
47:17
video1902974583: it
47:18
Andrea Mara: except you, and then you only have to show it to anyone when you feel
47:22
video1902974583: with
47:22
Andrea Mara: it.
47:23
Andrea Mara: So that's, yeah,
47:23
video1902974583: that's what
47:24
Andrea Mara: I would say.
47:25
Madeleine Cleary: And you've always got the second draft
47:26
video1902974583: look forward to as well.
47:27
video1902974583: Exactly.
47:28
video1902974583: Mm.
47:28
video1902974583: The fun, the fun second draft.
47:30
video1902974583: Well, we're gonna let you go off to the Emmys, Andrea, and hopefully see the production win lots and lots of, um, awards, which is super, super exciting.
47:40
video1902974583: Um, and for those listening, if you're looking for something really page-turning and gripping,
47:45
Madeleine Cleary: um,
47:45
video1902974583: up a copy of Such A Nice Girl.
47:47
video1902974583: It is out in Australia.
47:49
video1902974583: Might not be out in the US, but we're very lucky it is out in Australia.
47:52
video1902974583: Um, and pick up Andrea's other books as well if you haven't read them already.
47:55
video1902974583: Thank you so much, Andrea, for joining us on the podcast.
47:58
video1902974583: Thank you.
47:59
Speaker: Thank you for listening to another episode of The Book Deal Podcast.
48:03
Speaker: If you are enjoying the pod, we'd really appreciate you following or sharing the show in your podcast directory, checking us out on Instagram and Facebook, or supporting us through our Patreon community at patreon.com/thebookdealpodcast