Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / Guiding the Flock Part 2: Inside the Front Office with Tommy Sheppard

Transcript

Guiding the Flock Part 2: Inside the Front Office with Tommy Sheppard · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. I'm your host, Thad Levine.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We're joined by Tommy Shepherd for the second half of
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: our conversation with him. Tommy spent twenty nine years in
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the NBA, nine with the Denver Nuggets, the last twenty
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: as an executive with the Washington Wizards. He was the
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: sid at UNLV during the Running Rebels days. He's going
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: to share his wisdom about his tenure with the Wizards.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: We're going to break down coaching across the NFL, Major
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: League Baseball, in the NBA. We're going to talk a
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: little bit about the trade deadline, and we're going to
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: get into Tommy's current career as an executive coach. Welcome
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: back to Rosterster Rings alongside Tommy Shepherd. I am Thad Levine. Tommy,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I want to dive into your illustrious tenure with the
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Washington Wizards. You spend sixteen years serving as I think
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: in larger guard, Ernie Grunfeld's chief lieutenant. You then get
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to take over a baseball basketball operation. Sorry
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: as the president. I'm just curious from your perspective, what
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: were the challenges you faced when you actively replaced one
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: of your chief mentors in your career.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Well, the first and foremost is, you know, when you're
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: named the interim, you're I was focused on. I just
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: was really very grateful to earn and in this business,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: you know, there's people that just come in and change
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: your life, and he definitely did that for me. Fantastic
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: human being. He's a great player at college, played in
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: the NBA for a long time, very great team player,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: and various two evaluator of talent. And so now I
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: said that guy, like you said, we were together sixteen years,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: he's not there. There there's a big there's a really
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: really huge hole in your heart. Right. But then this
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: challenge of you know, I was the interim, I was
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: not going to be named. There were several people interviewed
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: for that job, and I really this was a dream
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: job for something I'd set out when I started working
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: in the NBA. I really wanted to run a team
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: one day, and Ernie gave me all the opportunity to
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: learn that. We had a great time, we had great staff.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: When Milton Newton's with the Milwaukee Bucks want to ring there.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Tim Connelly is now the GM president of the Minnesota Timberwolves,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Pat Connolly's with the Bulls gimm We had a lot
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: of fantastic people that are all management wolves to this day.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: We had a great staff. I just look at that change.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I think the most immedia thing that I noticed. It's
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: a heck of a lot easier that chair to the
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: left or to the right than the big chair. Like,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: you have to get used to the fact that everything
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: that you learn, everything that you've done the previous sixteen
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: years as a senior vice president, assistant GM, whatever you
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: want to call it, that was managing down. You were
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: taking care of a lot of things, and that the boss,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the president of the team, early growth, I was managing
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: up and that there's a lot of stuff that just
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: you don't know until you're sitting in that chair.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. I think as much. And you
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: sat in that seat for sixteen years, You've got the
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: opportunity and until you really live it. And I feel
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: the same way for managers in the major leagues, head
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: coaches in the NBA, the NFL, just the crush of
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: media responsibilities in that role, you just can't perfectly prepare
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: yourself for. You know, I always look look at the
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: managers and the major leagues. They talk to the media
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: before and after every game. They have to talk to owners,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: they have to talk to the executives. It's just an
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: incredible amount of people that they're managing relationships and oh,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: by the way, they're supposed to help you win baseball
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: games and develop skills and talents. And it's no different
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: for executives. You're still responsible for setting the mission and
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: vision for the organization. You're still responsible for, you know,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: being able to roll up your sleeves and help in
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: all facets of the organization. You're supposed to mentor people.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: It's a lot going on. You have to have a
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: trusted lieutenant with you walk in the door, replacing your
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: career mentor. I would think from a distance, it allows
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: you to walk through the door with the benefit bit
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: of exceptional institutional knowledge about the Washington Wizards and exactly
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: how they do business. But it's also a little bit
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: of the challenge, I imagine, because usually when we take
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: these roles, there's a mandate for change and to make
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: substante change. It's a little bit of an offense to
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: your predecessor because it insinuates we weren't doing things as
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: well as we should. Well, you were. You were part
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: of the architect of the previous regime and the new regime.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: You're also still maintaining that relationship you have with one
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: of your I'm sure dear friends and mentors and Ernie Grunfell.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: How did you balance the benefits of institutional knowledge with
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: this feeling of having a mandate to make change, to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: try to, you know, turn the franchise in the right direction.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Well, you look and see where can we be additive.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Where are some areas that were maybe underperforming or there
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: was just nobody able to do the work. Where we
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: can we add some firepower into this group before we
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: to start getting rid of people left and right. You're right,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of institutional knowledge. Some people did lead.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: But I think for me, you're right. When you have
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: that inside look at what was working, the last thing
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: you want to do is just change for the sake
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: of change. I thought, you know, putting some people in
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: some new positions and giving them more responsibility, that's just
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: part of it. Like this is your big opportunity, and
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: that's how you were able to plait it up for people.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: But for me, you don't want to make change without
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: really knowing what it is that you want to make
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the change, what's going to appear if you do that take?
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: What do you think is going to happen? Is it
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: going to be better? Is it just because you want
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to reduce certain things? Or maybe that person wasn't binding
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: well with everybody else and so it's removal because of
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: a personality, or is it removal because of talent? But
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of those things you have to really weigh heavily.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: And I go back to relationships are so critical in it.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Within the walls of an organization, some relationships there's a
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: lot of people that have jobs and said, well that's
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: some player's favorite, whatever, trainer, equipment guy, whatever. Is that
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: good for the company? Sometimes it is? Sometimes everybody needs
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: an air. But sometimes that might be the one thing
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: holding you back in a lot of areas is because
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: this person, maybe they're enabling. Maybe there's things that said
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: that aren't in public light and they don't really seem
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: like this, Well that doesn't seem like that big of
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: a deal. But you know, I don't think people really
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: spot when you when you walk outside, you don't really
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: know the soil erosion until one day you walk out
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: there's a huge open pit in your front yard, you
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: and your house things into like that's that's really the
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: damage that can happen, slow slow drops every day if
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: it's not the light people in your organization. So you
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: really do look. I was able to look very hard
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: at the areas that I thought maybe we can do
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: better in and with that we did add some people.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: We brought back some former players. We brought back some
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: people that were coaches. I think coaches are great. Scouts,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: brought back some players they players, no players, I mean,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: brought some people that that were that had been a
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: management positions, scout of positions. But it's better more voices
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: in the room with different backgrounds. I think it's very
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: very helpful. I think it's very important the respect that
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: you have to have for your peers to listen first,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: what does everybody have to say? Don't the loudest voice
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: in the room is not always the lifeblo just a
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: loveless one. To being able to have that time to
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: really take advantage of the wisdom of crowds is sometimes
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: a powerful thing. You get to know exactly where everybody sees.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I love to ask people what do you see? What
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: what do you think? Is wrong? Or what do you
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: think we're doing great? And I always started, what are
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: you doing great? If you hear the same answer six
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: or seven times, do you think you're onto it? But
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: if if you hear six or seven different answers, you say,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: we got to address something in everybody sees something different,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: especially when something's not going well, then he looks like
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: you got a lot of issues. But what are they?
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: What are there? What is the true issue? Is it
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: because we're not doing a good job of rehabbing players
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: and being the very best safe space for them mentally,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: we not have the best coaches coaching them. Those are
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: huge issue. Maybe some of the food isn't so good
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: in the move in the in the food room. Okay,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: we can fix that quickly. That's a quick impact thing.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: You gotta be very careful who's around your players. You know,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: there's an old saying about higher, slow, fire fast, and
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: that's a tough, harsh thing in this business. But don't
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: wait for relationships that you are you very suspected about.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't wait to see if it's going to get better.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you got to know when it change is necessary,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: that's happening, you know, And then fantastic ownership. When I
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: was an assistant, you know, a Poland owned the team.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: They didn't know Chapolan didn't own a computer. And Ted
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Leons is about the team. Ted was one of the
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: very first people on the internet. He started AOL. They're
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: both Titans. They are both geniuses in business, and they're
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: both fantastic people. And Ted gave me an opportunity of
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the lifetime to run that team. And I'll always be grateful.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: You always wish you could do better. There's always the
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: end of the day, it's about wins and losses in
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: this business. I think that's a very fair way to
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: be graded. But I think the one thing I'm most
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: proud of is we had some great relationships. We had
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: some great players that care deeply about the community of
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: DC and still continue to give back, and we all
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: keep in touch. And that's what I know. We were
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: on something. We had some very relationships.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Tommy, your answer makes me think of so much an
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: overlap in my career. I just think when you talk
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: about addressing some of those problems, some of the ones
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that are big, some of the ones that are extremely daunting,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and some of the ones you can manage, it all
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: starts with listening, you know, and you talked about this previously,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: like your leadership style about rolling up your sleeves and
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: being willing to get in to do some of the
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: more challenging jobs along the way. And I think when
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: you do that, you're giving the gift to the people
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: around you of listening to their voices. But the biggest
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: gift you can give is have their voices actually inform
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: your decision making. And sometimes we don't always hear what
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: we want to hear. But I think the kind of
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: shorter sighted leader is the one who feels like they
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: have to have all the answers. I always felt when
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: an owner asked me a question, I was responsible for
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: giving him not my best answer, but the best answer.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: And oftentimes I did have a very good answer. But
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: when I didn't, I went to the content experts, and
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: sometimes that was my scouting director or my farm director,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: or a scout in the field or one of my analysts,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and then I would bring them back into that conversation.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: So the owner heard from the source the person who
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I thought was most expert in responding to his question.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: And I think that did a few things, but it
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: gave him the best answer we could provide. But it
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: also gave that person a sense of ownership and equity
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: in the decision care were making. Now, all of a sudden,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: they were very linked to the outcomes. They had a
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: vested interest in the outcomes, and I think as a result,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: they had a little bit more loyalty. There was a
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: little bit more culture. And then subsequently you had that
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: opportunity to get promoted with in Washington and you dealt
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: with some those challenges associated with making significant change as
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: well as assessing the institutional knowledge around you. When I
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: joined Minnesota from the outside, I kind of had a
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: similar situation, which was everyone had worked there for twenty
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: to thirty years. There were some exceptional people. When I
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: was hired there, the former two general managers were still
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: employed there, the former three scouting directors were still employed.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: And so when you were making change, one thing I
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: was not aware of is there was a mandate to
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: make change. But any change we made was substantively changing
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: something that those people believed in they were very passionate about,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: so it was a real extra level of difficulty. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: then I think one thing we tried to assess was
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: who had institutional knowledge and who had been institutionalized, and
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: you know, to quote quote quote Brooks from Shawshank Redemption,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: you could deal with with people who have institutional knowledge
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: really can accelerate your transition. People who institutionalized have a
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: real tough time performing at an elite level when the
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: paradigm is show dramatically and as difficult as it was,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: it was important for us to make that assessment and
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: really kind of move on from the people who had
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: been institutionalized because they weren't going to necessarily thrive in
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: the new environment. And it wasn't that we were saying
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: to them they weren't capable. I think we were just saying,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: we're not the best fit for your skill set right now.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's best for you to go try to find
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: a fit somewhere else. But Tommy, I want to shore.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I want to shift to a few players that you
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: had a chance to work with, and you and I
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: talked off air about this guy, and I want to
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: give you a form to share your your insights into
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Russell west Westbrook with the listeners. We all know him
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: as a Hall of Fame caliber player. He's going to
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: He's going to be in the Hall of Fame he's
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: won championships. He's an excellent player, but can you share
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: your assessment of him as a person, teammate and leader.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Russell was one of the various players I've ever seen,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: ever been around. Just tremendous and will be first ballot
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame every place he's ever plays, going to
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: have as Jersey numb retire, and he's still probably said
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: sounds better of a person than he is as a player.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I've never had that. He's a force of nature in
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: terms of his impact on the community and the things
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that he does for people that will never ever be seen,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: never be There's no he will bring attention to very
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: big things because he knows how to bring the media
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: to things that really need a community's attention. But something
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: that he can take care of, he does and he'll
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: never know. But when we made the trade for Russell,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: it was after the bubble, and when you're in the bubble,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: you get to see everybody every day. He was playing
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: for Houston, and I was not very popular at the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: moment when we traded for Bussell because we traded John
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Waller was a franchise player, where of the greatest players
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: ever to play for the Wash Sheets of Wizard. Russell
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Westbrook is one of the greatest players in the history
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: of the NBA. It's different, but John was a fantastic player.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: But it was time to go. And there was a
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: story within the bubble that I heard, and the NBA
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: per diem is quite the thing, and everybody in the
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: bubble you got per diem for every day that you're
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: in the bubble. So it was well in access of
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: about ten to fifteen thousand dollars and during the bubble
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: for a long time, and russelled with the Rockets. They
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: were there, they got there, they were eliminated in the playoffs,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: but he left his money there as a tip for
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the ladies to clean the room. And the only way
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I heard is because one of the people that were
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: cleaning rooms. I ran into later at Disney and they
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: mentioned the story to me, and then it came out
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: of the media too. But I heard from people that
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: worked there and the reverence and their respect and the
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: impact of just one little bit that he did that
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: day for those people that nobody'll ever know about. That's
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: all I need to know about us. Was so when
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: we had up too to bring him in. So proud
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: of the things that Russell diff to the players off
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: the court. And then you know a guy like Ruiyot
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow got like Gannyavio since gone to other places. You
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: put them on here and you ask them about Russell
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: and man said, he taught me to be a pro
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: on the front. They taught me to be a better
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: person off the floor. And man, that's legacy stuff there
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: where when you get excited because it will was full
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: of takers. Let's be honest, there's a lot of takers
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: out there. When you run across somebody who gives so
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: deeply without really ever being asked to, you treasure those people.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: You treasure that relationship. I love the time with Russell.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: We still keep up a while watch him and I
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: watch the impact he makes on players not on his team,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: every player in the league. If you watch a game,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: most of the young kids in the league, they grew up.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: They didn't grow up watching Julius Michael Kobe. They grew
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: up watching Russell, Westbrook, Kevin Durant, that that group. So
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: when they're walking up to Russell after the games, you know,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: it looks like a wedding. So he's the receiving line.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: These guys can't wait to see him and say, man,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: we meant the world to me. Watched you growing up.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: I think it fishes him off too, because that means
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: he's getting Oh, all these young guys come up on
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: hellug him and said, man, you were my favorite player
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: These are the force multiplayers in the game. And as
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: much as we talked about sometimes there's a misalignment doing
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: your best player being your leader. When your best player
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: is also your leader, it's an incredibly profound impact they
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: can have because they just resonate with every player around them,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and sometimes, as you just said, it extends beyond your
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: own team. It helps you recruit the next player. They
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: want to be part of what that person is creating,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and it's just it's an exceptional value to the team.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I want to turn to another player who I think
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: you have very high regard for, But can you take
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: the listeners behind the scenes and how did you decide
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to give Bradley Beal the Supermax contract and what went
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: into that decision.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: You know, I think every contract, every negotiation, you start
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: with an end in mind. And at that time I
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: took the job, Bradley were actually doing an extension with
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: him immediately and that was a big thing for us
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: because it showed he he was buying into the change
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: that happened and certainly where the future was going. And
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: I'll go back and say it again, Bradley at that
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: time it was one of the top two guards in
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: the league and another fantastic human being, a very very
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: good person who cares deeply about his community. That super
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Max all those different contracts. You know, you go back,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: he was an All NBA Player of the Year. He
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: played with Russell the only time Bradley was All NBA
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: and it's a it's a tribute to Bradley in his tower.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: But also again, when you put great players, sometimes somebody
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: gets lifted. We had John and Bradley forever and that
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: was a great backcourt, one of the most affordable back
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: courts in the NBA during that stretch. Just there was
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: we just couldn't get over the hunt. And so Bradley
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: was somebody that he was homegrown in an organization and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: in monumental sports. You know on the other side that
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Alexandro Bechkin, who was a fantastic player, generational player, grew
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: up in the organization. I think there was a symmetry
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: there ordership really like the idea of, hey, we have
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: players here that people grew up where we care about them.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: We don't want people jumping to other communities. Why wouldn't
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: they want to be here, Why wouldn't they want to
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: be the quarterstone of the fans. I think the plan
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: everything is solid, but then life happens and you get injuries,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: and Bradley's just been hobbled by injuries, hasn't been able
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: to be as capable of a player that he is
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: when he's healthy. No injuries can really change the trajectory
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: of your career. But going back to that time and place,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: he was one of the very top, would have been
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: one of the very top free agents of both classes
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: when the women's contracts came up, And you know, I
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: look back on it and I just care deeper that it.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Bradley had changed his family, certainly in his future and
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: his children's lives and stuff. But how much he gets
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: back to Saint Louis, where he's from, how much he
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: in the DC community, and the kind of person he
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: is sleep And I know in a he's a deserving person,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: a great person.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: You know, I think you're talking about we have so
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: much information that informs our decisions. There's so much data,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: there's so many models that are built. I get to
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: find the one that perfectly predicts a player's health and
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: their pension for getting hurt or not getting hurt, and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that is you know, so you're making these decisions based
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: upon talent projections and aging projections, but you do your
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: best to assess the medical side. It's an imperfect science
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: by nature, and it has derailed so many superstars along
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I just remember there are a number of players who
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I've worked with. You know, pain threshold and pain tolerance
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: is variable human over human, and it's not predictive in
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: a model. Some guys can play through a lot of
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: pain through some real significant entries, and some guys cannot.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: And some guys have just more predilection to having injuries
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: bestow them. And it's really unfortunate throughout their care because you,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: as somebody who's around that person, would like to let
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the fans see them at their best for as long
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: as they possibly can be. Sadly, so many of their
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: careers get stricken short by injuries that they really have
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: almost no control over.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Throughout their careers. I think the one thing that we
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: admire so much in the athletes is their toughness right
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: when they're coming up. And sometimes those playing through pain
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: and playing through there's a different swing pain and injury,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: for sure, But I know in bad these cases especially,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of that stuff he played through young. He
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: was always showing up, he was always playing, and those
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: injuries really took a toll later and you start to
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: see that sometimes you what you got on the front
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: end really impacted the ability to perform later live in life.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I wish we would have done a better job maybe
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: managing that that those moments when they're younger, of giving
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: a couple more days off here or there, a couple
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: more games. Sometimes I can make the difference. I don't know.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I don't look. I'll spend a lot of time looking back.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I learned from the past, and I'll live there. But
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you know xactly what you're saying, there's there's a lot
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: of things that come in that we wish maybe we didn't.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: You don't see somebody when a player rolls into their
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: knee and it changes their their health for the rest
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: of their career. You don't see those things on a
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: scouting report. You surely Doy'll tell the owner he's going
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: to be great unless he gets hurt. You When that
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: stuff does happen, you do have to pivot. You do
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: have to show up for work and still have to
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: figure it out. And that's a great challenge the roster building.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think one thing that we instill
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: in players early in their career is one of the
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: best ability as your availability, and we try to encourage
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: them to play through some difficult times. As you say,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: we want you to play through pain, but not through injury.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: But I think as you mature as a player, it's
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: that awareness that at eighty percent, I'm still better than
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: the alternative player we have, but maybe once I get
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: down to sixty percent, we actually have somebody on the
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: bench who would be better served to help us win tonight.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: And having the humility to actually say that, and you know,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: take a proact of role with your medical team, with
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: your performance and with your manager, with your head coach,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and participate in those decisions or try to put the
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: team in the best position to win, because we're pounding
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: them throughout the first part of their career saying we
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: want you to play through some tough times, but really
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: in the latter phase of their career, maybe when their
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: performances become instead of superhuman, it's just mostly human. We
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: actually have some alternatives on the bench, and having you
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: play through a certain level of pain is actually hurting
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: our chances of winning that night's That's game, Tommy. I
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: want to shift our conversation to something that we're seeing
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: across all sports showing up in the NFL right now,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: but it's this amazing volatility amongst the coaching ranks. I'm
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: going to read off a few statistics to you, and
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: then I'd love to get your thoughts about this. That
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the carousel that we're seeing across the NBA, Major League Baseball,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: in the NFL when it comes to coaching. In the
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: last two years, eighteen of the thirty two NFL teams
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: have made a change at head coach, and it needs
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: to the last two years, both in the NBA and
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball, half of the teams, fifteen of
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: them have changed their head coach and managers. That to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: me is a staggering number. I looked up also that
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: when you look at the median tenure of coaches across
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: the three sports, the NFL is leading at three years,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the NBA at two point six years, major League Baseball
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: at two and a half years. Those numbers are just
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: absolutely incredible to me, and it speaks to a level
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: of volatility and instability. And we want to talk to
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: our coach and staff about what we have a one
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: year plan that's strunning concurrent to a three and a
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: five year plan. But lo and behold, they're familiar with
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: these numbers. They know that that three to five years
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: seems like an eternity to them. There's no guarantee that
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: they're going to still be around. And so while we're
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: sitting in the executive seat trying to greed patients and
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: we are trying to develop talent, and we're trying to
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: build towards a future goal of success, they have to
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: be living in the moment because past practices indicate that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: are patience does not extend to them. And I just
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: would be interested your take when you hear some of
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: those numbers, and then I'd love to dive into a
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: few of the individual coaches who have been recently let
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: go at the NFL level who are undoubtedly Hall of
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Fame coaches.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so much of everything that you said
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: that the numbers. They don't surprise me. It's very disheartening
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: because we know a lot of these people and you know,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: they're very very good coaches, and they're they're leaders, and
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: then they do fantastic job and sometimes it's just the
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: well fit. But bigger than that, I think it's back
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: to what we talked about originally, is managing expectations. What
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: are the expectations, what do we see this team capable
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: of doing. That happens during the interview process, but a
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: lot of times in the selection piece, the media has
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: a big place in this and it can get hyped
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: up that this is the person and then all of
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: a sudden, you know, maybe ownership feels the heat that
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: we want to We want to please the fans, we
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: want to please the media. We're going to win the
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: press conference. Everyone's gonna love this person, and that shine
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't get you very very long. What you got to
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: really worry about is who were going to put in
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: front of our players that's gonna instill the day to
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: day work ethic, the desire to come to work every
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: day with joy in your heart, the vulnerability that you
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: can have within that group knowing that, hey, when I
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: have a bad day, They're gonna pick me up. Norm
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: when I'm not feeling my best, they'll spot it and
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: help me. All these different things that come in those
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: are really what matter. But a lot of times those
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: are the last things people talk about in an interview.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: No access and o's every time, you gotta have that,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: no question. But if you have access and o's or
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: a great communicator, sometimes I say get the we can
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: get the great excess the other person next to the
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: great communicator to help them. But sometimes that you know,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: you're surprised that some people can really surprise you how
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: a stud of a coach they are and how great
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: they can become. When you look at the resume, it
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: was pretty thin. There's other people who been around forever
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: and they're fantastic assistant coaches, they really are, and that
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: mixture over it's just too big of a jump to them.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: And I think it's just hard to get that job
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: if you don't have complete alignment from ownership GM ed Cob.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I think in the NBA, the head coaching job is
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: the hardest job by far in the organization. It didn't
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: need so much support, and support isn't just they'll let
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: them do whatever they want. They're significant conversations, but they're
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: time equity. You have to put in the time of
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: that person. You have to know what's going on in
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: their family life, everything about them, everybody in their world.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: That's important because if it's important to them, it has
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: to be important to me too, because I care about
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: you and I want to know how you're doing them
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and things aren't going well, I want to know how
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: we can get it back to well. That's our responsibilities managers.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: When I look at the numbers in the NFL, I
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: see a great deal of this because there's there's the
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: ability in the NFL to maybe jump up that following
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: year you have a terrible season, your schedule is not
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: quite as owner as the follow in the year, the
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: draft gives you another shining player that you can bring in.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: It's usually a quarterback, these kinds of things. So you're
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: selling hope some of these franchises that you know, it's
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: just like a broker record. Every year you see the owner.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: You know, if it takes a poll that comes out
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: says your franchise as the worst facility in the NFL,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: that's what it took to get somebody to respond, well,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: that's unfortunate. I'm not diving in. I don't know the
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: business of that. I just know the stories when they
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: come out, those kinds of stories, but that's what motivates
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: that person to action. That's a little disappointed. You should
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: not have to wait to read about how bad something is.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: You should probably know already because you ask questions and
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: you see whatever people do when you see what the
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: best practices are. The surprising thing to me is the
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: lack of patience because it takes a long time to
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: learn this business to be the very best coaches in
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: interustid That's why in the NBA, you know, you look
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: at who are the best coaches. Steve Kurr Eric S.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Foster is now the longest tenured coaching in sports period.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: He's had a lot a lot of years there to
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: learn his craft, and he's had great support behind him.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: He is a fantastic one of the best coaches we've
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: ever had. We had tremendous support behind him all the way,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: and that's not always afforded to other people. Steve Kerr
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: fantastic coaching. What he's done. You just go light down
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: the list pop all these different coaches kept them going
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of times is they did have the full
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: support of ownership, the full support of that GM. So
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: it's hard enough to play twenty nine other teams in
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: the NBA. You don't want to play games, and you're
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: a building, you gotta have that support. Those are things
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: that need to time to work through. And if you
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: say we got two years to turn this thing around,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: people are going to go into that with that element
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: of time equity that we really need to spend time.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: We just have to cut corner whatever it takes to win.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: And then so maybe you win and you nudge it
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: up a year. When you're re jump above five to
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: ten wins, it's not sustainable, falls through the floor. Okay,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: get them out of here. They can't win anymore, like
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: you didn't create that sustainable atmosphere. That's me.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I've always used it the same way you have, Tommy,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: which is that if there's principal alignment from ownership to
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: chief executive to head coach, you have a chance for
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: sustained success. If there's alignment between two of the three,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: you may have fleeting success. If there's no alignment, then
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you're going to have abject failure over a long time horizon.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: And I think when you look at these jobs, the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: worst thing that can be said about your job is, well,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: it's only one of thirty or there's one of thirty two,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: so someone's going to take it. And that's true. Someone
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: will take it, and they'll take it very willingly. But
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: if that's what how your situation is being characterized, you're
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: not setting yourself up for success. And we all know
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the numbers that the Pittsburgh Steelers remarkably did relieve Mike
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Tomlin of his duties. They're about to hire their fourth
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: head coach since the nineteen sixties. The Loss Vegas Raiders
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: have four coaches that they're currently paying and they're still
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: hiring a fifth one. So, like you see some of
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the instability across some of these franchises, and they do
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: tend to repeat their behaviors over time. It tells something
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: dramatically changes you would expect the actions to stay the same.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to share with you some stats that just
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: blew me away, Tommy, when I looked at the fact
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: that John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, and Sean McDermott now have
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: all been relieved of their jobs over the course of
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: their collective times with their three franchises, they've won sixty
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: three percent of their games. Collectively, they've won nineteen division titles,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and they've appeared in the playoffs thirty three different times
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: as a group, and just as a point of reference,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: sixty three percent of the wins. That translates into an
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: NFL season of winning eleven games a year, the NBA
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: winning fifty two or MLB winning one hundred and two.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: That's also known as a playoff team in their average seasons.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: And all three of those gentlemen are out of their jobs.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I wonder if you could take our listeners inside a relationship,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: a personal relationship that you have with John Harbaugh. What
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: are the New York Giants fans getting in John Harbaugh
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: as their new head coach?
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: R the times I deserved and spend time with coach,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: go to Ravens camp and be around just him, with
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: the whole Ravens culture that they're getting. Somebody from day
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: one is coming in with a vision of what this
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: is going to look like, and he's going to recruit
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: people that I think are going to want to be
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: there because they see this is going to be fantastic
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: for their careers. He's going to make the best person
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: out of me. I think he challenges people. He is
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: a great listener. I think he's done a tremendous job,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: and it plays itself out with the team he inherited.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Was a good tea when he when he started out
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: with the Ravens. But there was a disconnect within the
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: locker room. There was you know, you can read about
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: these things. It was that I wasn't a fly on
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: the wall. As the story goes is he went to
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: the most difficult people on the team and said, what
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: we're gonna make this work? How are we gonna communicate through?
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Too important to the team to be this corrosive to
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: the team. And he flipped the script and he flipped
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: that thing around. And you know what happens. I think
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: over time, when you see he win a Super Bowl,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: you want another one, and then you want another all
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: these things. People don't really understand how hard it was
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: to even get on the field for AFC Championship game
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: just one time. Now there's people that coach in the
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: NFL forever don't go to the SC NFC Championship, much
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: less the Super Bowl. And that's okay. I don't expect
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: fans to have that. But when you're in that industry
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: and you look and you say, man, there's only one champion.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: It's sometimes people win that had no business winning, and
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: they're they're they're knighted and they're fantastic forever. And there's
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: people that every single reason they should have won and
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: they didn't, and they're not quite held in the same
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: regard as those great coaches except within the the fraternity.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: But to the public some people say, well, that first
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: is a less of a coach to the end of
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the championship. And when you know what we know and
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: the distance between you know, you look at a ball
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: rolling around the rim, and if it goes in, you're
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: a genius and you're gonna get an extension. If it
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: goes out, you're an idiot, and we really should think
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: about making the chake. That's a tough standard to success failure.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: So I think what Harbaugh's would have been to the
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Giants is a proven resume, I fantastic communicator, somebody that's
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: going to absolutely uplift performance. And he is used to loyalty.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Because he gives loyalty, he's out on off in players.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: The one thing I do have a little concern is
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: that that that media market there is a little bit
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: different than the one in Baltimore, and they'll they'll demand
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: a lot more insight from him day to day than
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: maybe he's used to or comfortable with. But never seen
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: somebody so wonderful managing the spirits of his team. You know,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: when they were having they had tough losses. There's a
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: lot of things that happen, and then there were games
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: that their team could have mailed it in. He had
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: him ready to play and that last game to come
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: down to that one field goal. You know, I'm not
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: sure that if they if they beat the Steelers and
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: they go to that next round, but they would have
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: not won that next game. I'm sure we'd probably still
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: talking about it today. I think the Ravens had an expectation, Superman,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: and that's that's a great franchise. That's a great expectation
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: to have. But after eighteen years, it's a little different.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I feel for the coaches that are getting whacked after
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: three years and you never get a chance to see
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: what their vision could have been. But I'm going to
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you this, Tom Harbaugh McDermott, sixty
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: three percent of the Wiz I don't think people appreciate that.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: They see maybe the next couple of years are going
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: to be as successful. They're gonna go Wight, did we
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: get rid of these guys?
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah? And you know, I think it also just
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: goes to showing a sport that's so driven by the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: quality of your quarterback. When you have a future Hall
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: of Fame quarterback in Lamar and Josh Allen, your standards
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: are so high. You just don't want to miss on
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: those windows because they're such exceptional talents, and you know
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: that that's what it takes to help you win. No
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: one person is helping, you know, singularly winning a championship
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: for you, but certainly when you have that type of talent,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: it seems as if the expectations are through the roof.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Because it's undeniable that all three of those guys have
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: done exceptional things for their franchises. I think two of
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: them are leading their franchises and wins, and McDermott would
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: have been there. If he had gotten another year or two,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: you would have passed the famous Marv Levy for career wins.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: There.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: All three of those guys will get opportunities elsewhere. One
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: already has. Just to show the amazing versatility of Tommy,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: we're gonna actually ask him a few NBA questions. Now,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: this is actually more right up as Ali, your old
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: franchise made the first splash at the trade deadline a
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: season here where they Trey Young. One of our listeners
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: asked this question, I'm going to pose it to you.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Tell me, why do the Wizards, who seem like they're
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: kind of in a rebuilding mode, feel it's the right
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: time to bring in an established veteran whose contract may
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: be expiring in a year or two, like Trey Young.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Well, let's put it to the side. If it's Trey
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: whoever it is. Sometimes when you have a team of
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: all young guys, there's not really somebody there that's done
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: it before, someone that can show them the way out
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: on the floor, tough games, what it takes to win
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: a game, a forty eight minute game where the most
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: NBA games are three possessions in the last three minutes
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: are decided. Right, So somebody a closer that can teach
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: young players how to win games, how to score you know,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: when everything else is taken away from you at the
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: end of the game. That's what a player like Trey
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Young can do. There's a value on that. It helps
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: those players naturation process. We talked about peer to peer
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: wisdom earlier. This is peer to peer education you're coaching.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: That is very critical in the NBA. It's something that's
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: been honored time and time again. So I think then
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: they also look at, hey, this guy can can come
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: in and help us win games, and that's ultimately their goal.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Everybody has a different track and what
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: their expectations are this year probably was to keep developing.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think the NBA Championship was in their sites
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: this year, but maybe what trade can do and deliver.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: You know, there's some people that work with Washington that
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: we're in Ocal City before that, and they are very
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: familiar with what Chris Paul did for the Thunder in
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: his time and certainly helped them win games. He did,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: but it was the things he did with their young
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: players that uplifted and I think they see that and
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: you know, origin out He's the art of concealing your source, right,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Like this idea happens at all sports today. We can
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: brace somebody in here and he can really help the
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: added to it to our young people to teach them.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Russell was that for us, and I expect Tray to
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: do that for them. And sometimes they something runs course
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: one place, you go to another place you can pick
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: back up and elevate them. I use that same example
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: what the coaches we're not going to about. They'll pick
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: their hat up, go to the next town, and you know,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: may rejuvenate their career. Maybe, you know, I wouldn't shock
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: me if one of those three coaches went a super
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Bowl the next two three years, just changing venue a
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: little bit. You hate, you wish it could be where
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: they were, but it wouldn't shock me that they're not.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: They're not bad coaches. Like the next spot, they're taking
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: all that with them, the player Trey bringing that. I
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: think that's why they do something like that.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, Tommy, I think one thing to be
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: said about the change that it was made by Pittsburgh
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: and Baltimore and the Bills is there is sometimes where
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you just need to change the voice. But also some
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: of the gifts you give the people who who now
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: go on to the next opportunity is maybe you know,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: they never want to admit it, but maybe there was
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a sense of complacency, and now
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: their urgent sense of urgency may be heightened. When they've
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: had what they love the most taken away from from them,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: they start appreciating it a little bit more. So, hopefully
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: that opportunity exists. And I love your breakdown of the
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Trey Young situation, and we saw that replicated in baseball
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: a number of times. I'm thinking back to the Washington
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Nationals when they brought in Jason Worth. It was a
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: head scratcher for all of us in the game why
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: they would do that when they weren't ready to win,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: But he taught them how to win, and then they
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: ultimately did win. And so I think when you find
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: that right veteran, sometimes you do kind of a little
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: proactively prematurely sometimes invest in that veteran leader to teach
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the guys what it's going to look like when they
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: have the championship caliber roster, so that the standards of
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: excellence proceed sometimes the talent being in the room. You
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: can win either way, but that is actually a proven
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: way of doing it. One other question I have for
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: you about this trade season is it if you were
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: a current executive of a contending team. It seems as
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: if the mere prospect, even if it may be remote
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: that Yannis could be available, would have to have an
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: impact as to how you conducted yourself. How would you
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: approach the February fifth trade deadline if you were in
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: a contending team and you were trying to manage and
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: balance the possibility that Yanis could be traded this season.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: But I think all lines are in the water, all
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: possibilities should be up on the board. You have a chance.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: If you're a contending team, that means you're really good.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: So you got to remember they are willing to break
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: something up and they could backfire on us badly. Most
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: trades and in the NBA around the deadline were remnants
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: from some discussions in the summer, right, And every trade
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: in the summer is a remnant of a conversation held
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: the deadline that didn't happen, so then you revisit it.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I think people by now are hedging that really truly
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: want the player that you're talking about. When y're honest,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: if we can't get something done now can get into summer.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: That's that's probably in the back of their mind. It's
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: a dangerous thot because somebody else gets them and then
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: you missed your one chance, but that it's such a
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: tough that that individual right there in that circumstance. The
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: circumstance is very difficult because everything he's done in Milwaukee. Certainly,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: and you know, and I know, players are not going
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: to say publicly I want out unless they really truly
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: want out. But the class act that you honestly is,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I do believe that it's not something that's coming. That
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Francise has done everything they can to put them in
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: a position to continue to win. It's just the NBA
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: capitles and the way that things are. It's it's harder
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: and harder right now. I think people are changing the
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: way they're building rosters moving forward, certainly because of the
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: last CBA. You hear more about aprons in the NBA
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: than you do in the kitchen. All of a sudden,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: these aprons are changing the way you're doing business left
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: and right. And there's there's going to be an expiration
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: on all the previous contracts, huge contracts that are signed
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: under the last CBA. I think a lot of teams
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: are actually just waiting for that moment to come on
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: when you see the last contracts as the last one,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: because these next ones are so huge, and I would
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: say this trade deadline, there will be some trades, because
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: there always are, and there'll be some interesting things. But
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: the contending contending top teams to get us a player
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: of that stature right there, I means you gave up
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: some of your best players. I don't know if anybody's
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: willing to do that. I could see a lot of
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: conversations happening now that will impact the summer, and maybe
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: that that's the time for him to go. I can
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: see it'll be a lot easier to do in the
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: summer than it is right now.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: And Temmy, when we make these decisions, you were forever
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: balancing kind of the risk versus the reward. And I
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: know listeners fans out there just would say, hey, if
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: you get a chance to go get Giannis, like there's
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: no price too big, you should just go do that,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: get him at all costs. But the is our jobs
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: are to find out what the tipping point is and
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: what cost is too great. You know, when you trade
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: too much of the nucleus of your team, the future
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: assets that you can control, they all of a sudden
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: now you no longer have the team around Giannis to
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: allow them to win a championship. That's maybe what's transpiring
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: in Milwaukee. No player can singularly win a championship. You
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: have to build a championship caliber team. That's the responsibility.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: And when you cut too deep.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: There is a risk.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: And I look at it from a fans perspective, You're
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: you're on the inside of this. But it looked to
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: me like one of the prevailing conversations of last year's
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: playoff race was just how deep some of the elite
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: rosters were. Oklahoma City, Indiana, Minnesota, Houston. These rosters were
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: massively deep. When you now start taking away your third, fifth, seventh,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: and eighth best players in the name of getting somebody
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: who could be your best, sometimes you down find yourself
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: not with the best roster anymore. And it's a league
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: that's really managing health and managing some degree of load
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: management right now. When you then consolidate all your assets
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: into one or two players, and when those players aren't
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: available to play, it really compromises your chance to win.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: You may be hurting yourself in the short term, and
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: you certainly know when you're making those types of deals
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: you're hurting yourself in the long run.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Well, you said it exactly that. So you start the
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: season until a couple of weeks ago that was over
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: half a billion dollars a contract sitting out, they're injured,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: not available, And there there was a direct correlation that
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: the teams some of these players were on were terror
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: You look at the Clippers and where they started, Well,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: why wasn't available? And Kahi gets available, they run off
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: eleven and two like is nothing. Now he's heart again.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: So there's this yen in the yang of in the
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: end of the flow of the season of are you
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: are we a good team or are we a good
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: team when that guy plays? And that weighs on the
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: psyche of the tip and then the reverse of it
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: is And this happened a little bit in Atlanta where
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: somebody wasn't available and the team was playing well. When
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: they would plug that player back in, they weren't playing well. Well.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: That takes time. Everybody has to get reacquainted, reintegrated with
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: each other. So there's this I think it's a real
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: cop out when people say, well, there's so much better
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: when that guy's not playing. Well, that's temporary. Long term,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: I don't think you'd feel that way, but I understand
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: fans always want the team to be the very best,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: and they shouldn't care about what people may But you
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: made a fantastic point that some of these are generational mistakes.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: If they're if they take a big swing and a
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: big lottery ticket type item and it doesn't work, you're
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: out kicks left and right. You're out young players because
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: you had to give up all these different things to
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: go for that one thing. And again, how many times
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: do we read and I know you probably take a
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: little smile yourself too with that, Well, they don't want
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: to waste a year of his career. Okay, I get that.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I do. With the money you're getting paid to do
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: a job, and as the top top player every franchise,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: you know we're going to go pretty far if they
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: play well. If they're not playing well, they're not available.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: We're not going to be very good. That's accepted, that's
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: an understanding. So your job really is to put as
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: many good pieces around as possible. I think the NBA's
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: ships usually sink because of the contracts that are paid.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: When you're overpaying somebody, even though everybody knows their value,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: that they're not maybe the player that that money would
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: suggest and then you kind of get into this loop of, well,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: they're going to try to prove it they're worth that,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: rather than just saying, this is who I am and
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: that's good enough. Thank god I got paid this money.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: That's great, But I know who I am and what
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I do. Well, it's not the time for them to
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: try to be the number one player on the team.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: But that happens a lot. So that goes back to
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: how do you put a team together, how do you
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: evaluate how much self awareness means to that person. Because
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: it's a big money game, and we can add this
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: to football and the conversations about the three franchises that
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: you talked about with those coaches. What's happening now? Players
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: are getting paid so much money and they earn every
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: dollar they do, but they're essentially a minority owner of
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: the team. Now, when you start making two hundred and
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: fifty three hundred million dollars, Moost contracts are on the head,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: are on the horizon. For the NBA, a lot of
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: players are jumping into the two hundred club, going too,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: fifty two fifty going north. So that's more than a
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: lot of the minority partners have invested in the team.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: So of course owners want to have meetings with these players.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Of course they should, absolutely, but their word can't take
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: precedent over the GM, the coach, everybody else, you know.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: But if you have some of these decisions getting made
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: to say, hey, quarterback says I really don't want to
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: play for that guy anymore, chances are that guys that
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: will be there. That's a hard part of this business.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: One other thing that I think is is a challenge.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: I think the science is making the decision knowing when
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: to pull that trigger and to invest in the player.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: The are form is I found so often when you
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: acquire a player by definition, they feel as if they
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: were required to put the team over the top, to
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: elevate the team to a level it hadn't previously been.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: They put incredible pressure on themselves. Really, all we want
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: them to do is to be the best version themselves.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: But almost to a man, they try to do something
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: more than what they're capable of, to live up to
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: the trade that was made, to live up to the
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: fan enthusiasm over the trade that was made. So I
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: think it's the art form of the head coach, the manager,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: the front office to really level set with that player
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: we're requiring you to be exactly who you have been.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: You don't need to be something greater than that. But
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: so often I found in baseball, the first couple weeks
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: after trade, the player actually faltered, He didn't shine, He
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: tended to falter until he returned to being who he was.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: And the goal was just to get it back to
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: who he was as quickly as you could. But almost
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: every one of them had a little bit of a
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: blip because now ason psychologically, I think they're trying to
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: be something they're not. And this leads into another topic
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: that I know you're passionate about it, and I'm just
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: curious how much of your transition and inspiration to become
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: an executive coach was born out of your genuine care
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: for the mental health of professional athletes, coaches, staff members
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: that you've worked with throughout your career.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's very near and dirt in my heart, which
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: is just the mental space for professional athletes. I'm very,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: very fond of NBA athletes. You know, we have never
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: had so much money, so much fame, so many things
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: going for NBA players and coaches and for francises, and
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: we never had more mism and that should never be.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: The resources are available left and right. There's so many
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: great things that are out there, But I just think
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: that you're withdrawing. There's so many lenses, so many eyeballs
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: that are on people's life every day. Your private life
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: is not that and you're judged from the moment you
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: get in your car to the moment you get back
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: to your house on everything you win, everything you say,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: what your Instagram look like, what's your TikTok? With all
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: these things that don't matter about basketball itself, but they've
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: impacting this player's happiness. They're impacting this player's family, happy wife,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: happy life. Well, if your family is miserable because of
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: reading all these negative posts on the internet, are they
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: self aware enough not to bring that to you or
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: they double down and now you're going crazy. And so
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: many news stories are aggregated now, so a lot of
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: stuff has edited out a lot of things on that context,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: but yet we take it as gospel. So the mental
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: health space has never been more critical to me. I
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: was very blessed to work with executive coaching when I
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: was a president of the Washington Wizards. I wish when
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: I was younger, I had executive coaches just to teach
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: us how to understand leadership, what it's about, and how
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: to navigate as we go through these things, instead of
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: figuring out on our own, or sometimes even worse, if
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: you have a role model, it probably shouldn't have been
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: a role model, and you take from me certain things
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: that this you know, sometimes the bad stuff continues because
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: nobody broke the cycle. Nobody was a good enough mentor
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: to say, no, this is not how you do this,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: this is what you need to do so well. I
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: had an opportunity that was given to me by Ted
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Yels's I'm forever grateful to Ted. But I was asked
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: to no longer be in my position in Washington, and
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I took that time and I said, I stepped away,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: and I said I need to be better at so
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: many things and where areas I think I can impact.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to come back to the NBA with
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: just say I'm ready to go, I'm fresh, i've been sleeping,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I got everything right, my health's great. I'm back, and
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: you know, I wanted to bring back stuff that proved.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: I went out and learned new things and brought new tools,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: and what did I see on the landscape was just
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: what I was saying is I'm not trying to do
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: the job of a psychologist, not at all. Executive coaching
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: really can help somebody sitting in a chair make decisions,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: and you're really just trying to guide from the side.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: You're not trying to tell them what to do. We're
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: trying to unlock places in their life where they're stuck.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: And they've maybe seen this movie a couple of times,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: and you can get stuck in life. You can be
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: very successful to a point and you find you kind
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: of get stuck and it forces you back. And you
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: do that enough times in enough cities, you realize problems
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: don't know geography. They will find you. You can work
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: in Florida, you get a new job in California. Your
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: problems will show up sooner or later. If you don't
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: solve them, you're in Florida. So I looked at it
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: as an opportunity to help other people and certainly help
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: myself as a leader, to learn more more and more
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: about empathy and listening and being executive leadership coaches. Is
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: that I'm there to listen, I'm there to help unlock problems.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I would I love working as some clients in the NBA,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: some clients and construction as some clients in medical fields.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: So they're all totally different, and it forces me to
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: really listen at a much higher level. It forces me
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: not to tell them exactly what to do or oh,
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: I know this, I know what you should do. Hey, Fad,
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: let me tell you I've been exactly what you just
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: said I'd done it. Let me tell you what I did. No,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: it's none of that. You got to really reverse the script,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: hold space for that person, and it's a build up.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: It's not something that comes overnight, but I think it's
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: very necessary. I'm looking out on the landscape and I
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: don't know if it's ever been more needed. You know,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of synthetic help you can get on
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: AI and those things are they're fantastic tools. Well, I
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: think people in this business were searching for authentic relationships
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: and they come with people that are there for you.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: It's amazing how many people show up for the group
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: photo at a championship trophy. Nobody shows up at the
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: end of the season when you won twenty games, when
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: people will get fired, there's not a lot of group
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: photos of that day. So you got to be with
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: people on their darkest days, and then you build those
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: things up and all the time you get trusted, real
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: what your pillars are going to be and create the environment.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: That's what I like helping people navigate. Now.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: It's extremely well said, Tommy. I think the solution that
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: have the most sustainable success are the ones that the
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: person arrives on their own, you know, or with the
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: help of somebody else. But when you're told what to do,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: you're probably not as vested in the outcome. When you
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: arrive at it yourself, it really is close to your heart.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: I think that's exceptional. I've had so many conversations with
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: major league coaches over the years, executives over the years,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: but I harken back to a great friendship I have
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: with Scott's servis longtime manager assistant GM works with the
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: San Diego Padres right now, and he often said, you know,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: we work in a pyramid based career path, where the
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: further you go up, there fewer roles and fewer jobs.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: There are only thirty miniagers in the major leagues, are
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: only thirty general minagers, and when you get there, it's
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: inherently lonely, and it's tough making decisions. We don't have
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: all the answers. And when you get to that crossroads
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: where you're not really sure what the next step is,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: it's really difficult to go ask your subordinates. It's difficult
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: to ask your peers. And so where is your community?
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Where can you bounce ideas off of? And I've always
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: thought for five hundred companies have boards of advisors or
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: boards of directors that are meant to guide and help
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: the executives make decisions and ultimately hold them accountable for it,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: but they provide exceptional resources for them. We don't have
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: that in professional sports, despite the fact that these are
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: billion dollar companies for which we work. So the service
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: you're providing is massively helpful. You said you wish you
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: had it early in your career. I wish I had
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: it at any point in my career to this day,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: I wish I had that. It's never too late to learn,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: it's never too late to really sharpen your skill set.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: By talking to somebody who doesn't necessarily have a stake
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: in what you're trying to achieve, you're not looking necessarily
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: for the hard and fast answers. You're looking for somebody
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: to help you workshop potential solutions and always come up
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: with that additional solution to what seems like an unsolvable problem. Tommy,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: I'm curious. You mentioned you're doing great business right now.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Are you taking on clients? And if so, how do
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: people get a hold of you? Where do they hurt here?
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: And learn more about the benefits that people could have
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: from working and spending some time with you.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I have a I call it a landing side.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: I'll call it a website. It's it's Tommy Shephard dot com.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: It's s A, G, P, P A r D Tommy
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Shephard dot com. There's a All the information you would
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: ever need is there. I do evaluate clients as they
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: come me out. I found I'd like to have a
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: certain set number because I really you pour yourself into people.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: It's hard. I'm not looking. It's more precision than it
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: is volume. And my intent is to really work the
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: very best with people. And I don't know if you
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: can do that when you have a ton but the
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: information is there. But I would just encourage people, if
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: you're curious about coaching, executive leadership coaching, go out and
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: find somebody to help you just for those reasons, because
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: they don't make your career that much better. And I
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: think what other area that I went to stump for
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: is your your private life. Your personal life relies on
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: you what you're doing in your business life to have
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: space some time for them. And if there's one regret
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: I had in thirty years in the NBA, I spent
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: an awful lot of time worried about people's problems more
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: than they worried about their problems. And I left a
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: lot of people at home, you know, wishing I was
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: there more than I wasn't. And I recognize that. And
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: if I can pass that wisdom one to the next people,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: I think that's the responsibility I have.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: And I think that's invaluable. We're not meant to solve
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: everybody's problems. We're meant to try to help them solve
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: their own problems, and they have to be a willing
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: partner in that endeavor. If not taking the lead, if
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: we want it more than they do, it's probably time
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: for us to move on and spend our time somewhere else. Tommy,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. The wealth of wisdom you
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: shared today was exceptional, truly a pleasure getting to spend
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: some time with you. For all of our listeners out there,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: please join us Thursday and every Thursday here at Rosters
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: to Ranks. Please join me, Host bad Levine, Ryan McDonough
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: and other general managers every week for Roster Syrings on Apple, Spotify,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Welcome